<glowcoil>
ELLIOTTCABLE: yeah just watched that hahahahha
<glowcoil>
ELLIOTTCABLE: oh god i would hate to have the name jeff warren
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
?
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<glowcoil>
ELLIOTTCABLE: he was the leader of the FLDS polygamist cult
<glowcoil>
ELLIOTTCABLE: currently in prison
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
oh lmao
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ffffff
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
whitequark: hi!
<purr>
<drparse> gqbrielle: a warning is when the parser gets passive-aggressive on you, an error is when it gets aggressive at you, a parse error is when it punches you in the fucking face
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<ELLIOTTCABLE>
o7
<eligrey>
firefox will never get superior pnacl and be forever limited by asm.js now that brendan eich is ceo
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
superior how / limited how
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
lol'ing
<purr>
lol
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I am literally crying like a baby
<purr>
<sephr> it was my sexy name
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<eligrey>
ELLIOTTCABLE: are you seriously saying spidermonkey+asm.js is faster than llvm?
<eligrey>
also its limited in terms of memory usage
<eligrey>
no js engines allow over 2 or 4gb per page
<eligrey>
ELLIOTTCABLE: people porting game engines to webgl are going to have trouble with that and the 50% worse than native performance of asm.js
<devyn>
...right now. theoretically there isn't really anything holding back asm.js as far as I can tell
<devyn>
I think it's a dumb idea though
<eligrey>
um the whole thing of it being a subset of js
<devyn>
yes, it's a subset of JS, but the whole point of making it that subset of JS
<eligrey>
which has no 64 bit int support necessary for games using >4gb ram
<devyn>
is that by doing it
<devyn>
you can compile it totally differently
<devyn>
yep, that's a problem, for sure
<devyn>
but it isn't really one right now
<devyn>
games that use > 4 GB of RAM normally don't really have all of that being used in the same memory space in the web context
<devyn>
a lot of that would be resources
<eligrey>
you can port soooo easily with pnacl and its portable
<eligrey>
devyn: i play multiples games with multiple browsers with multiple tabs simultaniously that doesnt matter
<devyn>
of course that doesn't matter
<eligrey>
i wouldn't care as long as the game goes fullscreen and captures my cursor
<eligrey>
i wont even be able to tell its a browser game
<devyn>
it doesn't matter with asm.js either
<eligrey>
except the huge perf loss
<devyn>
for now
<devyn>
that's not necessarily a theoretical problem
<eligrey>
i don't get what you mean
<devyn>
I'm saying
<devyn>
things improve
<eligrey>
is spidermonkey going to get active ai optimization or something soon?
<devyn>
yes, they're going to optimize specifically for asm.js
<devyn>
for asm.js code
<devyn>
it will be compiled in a totally different manner
<eligrey>
they already do i thought
<devyn>
well yes they're working on it, but I don't think it's in stable yet
<devyn>
in any case, yes, even then, at the moment, there's overhead
<eligrey>
uh oh you need to recompile stuff?
<devyn>
what the fuck eligrey are you high
<eligrey>
no chance for third party porting then
<eligrey>
unless you used nacl
<devyn>
you can do that with asm.js too
<devyn>
I swear
<eligrey>
devyn: yes are you not realizing what youre saying
<devyn>
okay
<eligrey>
that asm.js will get faster eventually
<eligrey>
when pnacl is native perf /now/
<devyn>
yes
<devyn>
I know
<devyn>
PNaCl is great and I'm totally on its side
<devyn>
but I'm not saying asm.js is horrible either
<devyn>
I think it's kind of dumb
<devyn>
but it's not horrible
<devyn>
from asmjs.org:
<devyn>
> The principal benefit of asm.js over whole new technologies like NaCl and PNaCl is that it works today: existing JavaScript engines already optimize this style of code quite well. This means that developers can ship asm.js today and it'll simply get faster over time. Another important benefit is that it's far simpler to implement, requiring very little additional machinery on top of existing JavaScript engines and no API compatibility layer.
<devyn>
I don't entirely agree that that's valuable
<devyn>
but
<devyn>
some think it is
<devyn>
it *is* very simple
<devyn>
like
<devyn>
VERY simple
<devyn>
I read the whole spec
<devyn>
it made sense
<eligrey>
at least chromebooks are outselling mozillabooks so it doesnt matter what eich does
<devyn>
lol, no, it doesn't work like that. people are way more likely to use asm.js now, unfortunately
<purr>
lol
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<eligrey>
devyn: is there a framework that deploys to both of them?
<eligrey>
i'd use that
<devyn>
sounds quite possible to me
<devyn>
obviously not yet but I doubt the differences are huge
<devyn>
other than that PNaCl has a gigantic API
<devyn>
i.e. pepper, I think?
<eligrey>
it also has opengl desktop version support
<eligrey>
iirc
<eligrey>
should be easy to port opengl games
<eligrey>
devyn: pepper is a plugin api that pnacl needs to use for better integration than the netscape api
<eligrey>
that firefox and safari use
<eligrey>
and previously opera
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<purr>
<akshatj__> I can make you sick
<whitequark>
asm.js is ok but simply pointless, as it is currently marketed
<whitequark>
mozilla went into some serious overkill on that
<whitequark>
ELLIOTTCABLE: hi
<devyn>
you know I really don't see it as an alternative to PNaCl anyway
<whitequark>
asm.js = formalization of emscripten output
<devyn>
pretty much
<whitequark>
firefox devs seem to think they need it for something, but they don't
<devyn>
actually, I think it makes sense to formalize it
<devyn>
then they can take what emscripten is useful for
<devyn>
and optimize that further
<devyn>
I guess
<devyn>
…what is emscripten really useful for though
<devyn>
lol
<purr>
lol
<whitequark>
see, the problem is the magic "use asm" incantation
<devyn>
why is that a problem
<whitequark>
it is useless. a good VM does not need it, *because* the semantics of asm.js is supposed to match semantics of js
<whitequark>
because it means you aren't optimizing normal code, you optimize asm.js and only asm.js
<devyn>
and it does. if you take the "use asm" incantation away, it still works
<whitequark>
but is slow
<devyn>
yeah
<whitequark>
V8 simply ignores the incantation and is fast either way
<whitequark>
or, newsflash, is fast even if you dare to create a new object inside or something
<whitequark>
as mraleph wrote, it's kinda like "use hungary" and then the compiler would force you to declare your variables like
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
cloudhead: at this exact moment, actually working on paws for some inscrutable reason. But that's only as of yesterday.
<whitequark>
hm, not toxic
<whitequark>
disappointing
<malia>
ELLIOTTCABLE: yes, but I wrote it. It is about PTSD ... since we have so many returning vets with it--it is important. and your friend (me) wrote it.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Generally … trying to learn some electronics shit. Working my way through the Art of Electronics, on whitequark's suggestion. But only idly.
<malia>
Feelings indelibly hurt by ELLIOTTCABLE
<cloudhead>
ELLIOTTCABLE: well, how about on the unproductive side? video games? tv? books?
<alexgordon>
malia: :(
<cloudhead>
ah nice
<malia>
alexgordon: yeah, it sucks, I wrote a fucking book, and nobody gives a shit here.
<malia>
alexgordon: you are left out of the rant
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
malia: I'll think about it, okay? Don't be so offended that I'm not excited to read it. I don't even know anybody with PTSD! Why're you trying to sell me on it? /=
<malia>
since you gave me a frown-y
<alexgordon>
malia: I'm not american so I have an excuse not to be patriotic. go crumpets!
<whitequark>
wow
<whitequark>
it actually burned down to literally nothing
<whitequark>
entirely destroyed
<malia>
ELLIOTTCABLE: 1. I wrote it 2. it is $2.99 you do know people with ptsd
<malia>
alexgordon: I am talking in the UK with a veteran with PTSD, it is not an american problem
<malia>
it is a world wide problem, rape victims get it, etc. it touches everyone.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
malia: well, link it to me when I get back to the computer (probably 'bout an hour)
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
(on my phone climbing out of bed)
<alexgordon>
malia: yeah I've seen documentaries. the state is such a pig for sending people out to do its dirty work and then abandoning them
<malia>
that is my feeling alexgordon I have a friend in the UK who cannot sleep and has chronic pain. all caused by going to war with the Yanks.
<whitequark>
at least your country doesn't have compulsive conscription
<malia>
whitequark: we used to.
<whitequark>
well, you *don't* now
<whitequark>
and in russia there is one. generally people going to army are regarded as already half dead
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
whitequark: gtfo.
<malia>
whitequark: wow, where are you?
<whitequark>
and note that we don't actually engage in any wars lately, it's just hazing
<whitequark>
ELLIOTTCABLE: hm?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
whitequark: rtfn.
<whitequark>
ELLIOTTCABLE: elaborate
<alexgordon>
read the fucking ... n?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
whitequark: get the fuck outta there, right the fuck now.
<whitequark>
ELLIOTTCABLE: how about you fuck off and clear your head first
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
alexgordon: wat.
<purr>
beep.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
whitequark: what? I'm just being kind. It wasn't intended offensively. o_O
* alexgordon
falls over laughing
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Trying to commiserate, to
<alexgordon>
you have a funny way of showing it, elliott
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Wat!
<whitequark>
I don't follow at all
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
By saying, "woah, your country compulsively conscripts and kills it's citizens? That could happen to you? OMG you should move asap!"
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
derp
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
WELL FINE bbl shower stillloveyouall
<malia>
no ELLIOTTCABLE not sending URL. keep your $2.99 since it is not of interest to you. just thought you would like to see something I did.
<whitequark>
no, it couldn't happen to me. I bribed the right official
<whitequark>
malia: I understand you're collecting money for a good cause but it looks more like extortion. please don't do this, it's not nice.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Be nice, maila's an extremely old friend.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
She's just rarely around.
<malia>
whitequark I wanted ELLIOTTCABLE to see the book I wrote. that was all . I don't give a flying fuck if you buy it ever
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ugh.
<malia>
thanks ELLIOTTCABLE
<whitequark>
okay maybe I was reacting to something that isn't common for you
<whitequark>
I've increasingly seen the trick "buy our plasma tv right now or we kill a kitten" being used, sometimes literally [saying that]. it annoys the fuck out of me.
<alexgordon>
fortunately we're not so poor here that we can't afford a military
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Wait.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I can buy a military?
<whitequark>
ELLIOTTCABLE: relevant
<whitequark>
"PMMA burns with a bright flame, virtually without smoke. Under normal circumstances, combustion only gives rise to carbon dioxide and water. Due to the material's chemical composition (carbon, hydrogen and oxygen), no acutely toxic substances like phosgene, acid vapors and sulfur dioxide can form, even in a real fire. Since the material does not contain any halogens, no dioxins can form either."
<whitequark>
confirm that entirely
<whitequark>
PMMA burning in my sink behaved just like that
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
This changes EVERYTHING
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
What's PMMA, specifically?
<malia>
whitequark: this was not your conversation. I wanted an old long-standing friend to see what I wrote. that's all ...fuck me.
<whitequark>
polymethylmethacrylate
<whitequark>
aka acrylic
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
how did you start it combusting? That's not normally something I think of as flammable. Just your torch?
<whitequark>
malia: it was a public one. still, sorry for intruding
<whitequark>
I do have some concern for my wellbeing every time I go out on the streets
<alexgordon>
"non-traditional sexual orientation" lol
<purr>
lol
<whitequark>
alexgordon: the default government term for LGBTQ here
<whitequark>
essentially the synonym
<alexgordon>
interesting
<alexgordon>
can't say it's any worse than our propaganda
<glowcoil>
alexgordon: what's the problem with it/the uk term or whatever
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<alexgordon>
glowcoil: oh there's no problem
<alexgordon>
I meant propaganda in general
<alexgordon>
glowcoil: although certain conservatives politicans do say things like "traditional marriage", so I guess that's the same
<alexgordon>
same in the US I'm sure
<glowcoil>
ok
<glowcoil>
yeah "traditional" is pretty loaded
<whitequark>
alexgordon: yeah, same idea
<whitequark>
"traditional" is *really* strong these days
<whitequark>
everything must be traditional
<whitequark>
russian
<alexgordon>
tbh, if that's all conservatives did (want to keep the status quo), I wouldn't mind so much
<whitequark>
patriotic
<alexgordon>
it's when they try to change things they get dangerous
<glowcoil>
well i dislike a lot of the status quo :p
<whitequark>
these fucktards recently banned a math textbook for primary school because it wasn't patriotic enough
<whitequark>
I repeat, not fucking patriotic enough
<glowcoil>
oh wow
<alexgordon>
whitequark: LOL
<purr>
LOL
<alexgordon>
glowcoil: I dunno, we've had 4 years of conservatives, I would quite like the status quo of 2010
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<alexgordon>
we've definitely gone backwards in the last 4 years :P
<glowcoil>
alexgordon: well like, those who have a pretty nice position in society like the status quo
<alexgordon>
glowcoil: even poor people had a better time in 2010 here than they do now
<alexgordon>
a much better time
<glowcoil>
like, you're allowed to marry and see your spouse in the hospital and don't get beaten to death for going to the wrong bathroom (eg trans people) and lots more things like that
<glowcoil>
so like, sure the status quo is better than actively worsening things lol
<alexgordon>
yeah
<glowcoil>
what's the status of gay marriage in the uk
<alexgordon>
glowcoil: I think it passed into law, not sure
<alexgordon>
don't think any marriages have happened yet?
<alexgordon>
I don't really keep up with it
<alexgordon>
glowcoil: we had civil partnerships before, so it's not that much of a big step
<glowcoil>
oh wow apparently this saturday is the first time
<glowcoil>
they'll happen in the uk
<alexgordon>
huh
<alexgordon>
strange the news isn't reporting it
<glowcoil>
yeah the 29th
<alexgordon>
CONSPIRACY
<glowcoil>
found a daily mail article when googling :p
<alexgordon>
glowcoil: the way they implemented gay marriage is so tentitive they almost shouldn't have bothered
<alexgordon>
religious institutions have to opt-in to it I think
<glowcoil>
oh :/
<alexgordon>
since for some reason marriage is still a religious matter? weird medieval stuff
<glowcoil>
i feel like it should probably be a religious institution's right not to perform gay marriages
<glowcoil>
though i still think any such religion is really fucking stupid
<alexgordon>
glowcoil: well actually not necessarily
<alexgordon>
glowcoil: they went to great lengths to make sure that religious institutions had to opt-in because some readings of EU law (and UK law for that matter) would say that they're not allowed to discriminate
<alexgordon>
for instance a shop can't say "no gay people can shop here"
<glowcoil>
right yeah
<glowcoil>
i feel like you have to be really careful about it
<glowcoil>
so idk what the answer is
<alexgordon>
but what I object to is that it's religion wide
<alexgordon>
so like if you have a particular church that says "I want to marry gay people" if the religion itself says no then they're not allowed
<alexgordon>
glowcoil: who wants to get married anyway ;)
<whitequark>
marriage is meh
<whitequark>
although I can surely imagine scenarios where it's ridiculously convenient
<whitequark>
ELLIOTTCABLE: did you know people make rocket engines with PMMA as solid fuel
<prophile>
glowcoil: randall munroe has a degree in physics
<glowcoil>
idek i'm going to back away from my previous assertion
<prophile>
the basic string theory problem, as I understand it, is that it fits with all the current data but so far it hasn't been used to make any further predictions
<glowcoil>
there are several unique predictions
<prophile>
or rather, any further predictions which have been tested
<glowcoil>
yeah the problem is that they're really high-energy or otherwise hard to observe
<prophile>
but that's as I understand it and unlike mr munroe I do not have a degree in physics :)
<glowcoil>
neither do i :p
<whitequark>
okay it's not entirely worthless: In addition to influencing research in theoretical physics, string theory has stimulated a number of major developments in pure mathematics.
<whitequark>
(I expected something like that)
<prophile>
it uses category theory
<prophile>
_CATEGORY THEORY_
<glowcoil>
right yeah like i really really like string theory from a math perspective