devyn changed the topic of #elliottcable to: we have decided to officially convert #elliottcable as a cult. join us
alexgordon has joined #elliottcable
alexgordon has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com]
<purr> <elliottcable> “Kapo also had a detachable vagina, which she once used as a decoy to aid her sister Pele to flee the overzealous Kamapua'a.”
yorick has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<PLejeck> 15:01:28 +devyn huh what mode of JPEG causes it to load in vertical lines horizontally o.o
<PLejeck> devyn: It's the rotation flag
PLejeck is now known as nuck
<joelteon> safari's developer tools are really nice
<joelteon> i'm surprised
<nuck> I hate the new ones
<nuck> They're all... xcode-ey, with seemingly nonsensical icons
<joelteon> I like xcode
<nuck> But the icons are awful
Willox has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
gazoombo has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
Sorella has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
gazoombo has joined #elliottcable
<purr> <eboy> ohhhhhhhhh
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Somebody shut purr the fuck up
<joelteon> you
<whitequark> ELLIOTTCABLE: /ignore him if you don't like him
<purr> <Nuck> purr isn't C
<nuck> if only purr if only
<nuck> what was it again, -shutup or something
<nuck> -stop
<nuck> -what
<nuck> there
<joelteon> -stfu
<purr> joelteon: no u elliott
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Wat
<ELLIOTTCABLE> -factoid stfu
<purr> ELLIOTTCABLE: Popularity: 15, last changed by: mix, 595ſ 116mſ ago
<ELLIOTTCABLE> that's like two years!
<joelteon> >using human time
<nuck> >not using sols
<nuck> >ever
<nuck> come on they're the best unit ever
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Gone Home is blowing my mind.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> First The Path, then the Stanley Parable... Now this
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I think I'm discovering I have a Thing for interactive storytelling and mindfuck narrative
<whitequark> ELLIOTTCABLE: you *may* like To The Moon
<devyn> nuck: ahh I see
<nuck> devyn: Yeah it's common from iPhone pics and shit
<nuck> Since Apple is too lazy to rotate the image I guess
<ELLIOTTCABLE> This, this,
<ELLIOTTCABLE> This game
<ELLIOTTCABLE> This game
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Crying
<ELLIOTTCABLE> So hard
<nuck> what kind of game makes you cry?
<nuck> Is it... the game of love?
<devyn> nuck: yeah I really don't understand why they do that though; surely the iPhone's GPU is more than powerful enough to rotate a goddamn image before writing it
<devyn> within a few microseconds
<devyn> or less
<nuck> devyn: I wonder if it's not that the camera module outputs a JPEG and then they just add the EXIF info to right it?
<devyn> I'm not sure how that would make any sense
<devyn> like
<devyn> wouldn't it make sense for the camera module to just output a properly rotated image then
<nuck> The camera module doesn't know the orientation
<devyn> unless the camera module is completely unaware of any rotation restrictions
<devyn> yeah
<devyn> I guess
<nuck> The rotation is determined by the accelerometers
<nuck> That's just my theory at least
<devyn> then why is it a good idea for the camera module to output a JPEG
<devyn> why not just point to the bitmap
<nuck> It's not a good idea
<nuck> It'd be nice if it'd output the RAW
<devyn> er, there's no such thing as "RAW" as a standard
<nuck> Shooting raw on iPhone with manual focus and exposure would be so hnnnnnnng
<nuck> I know the formats aren't standard but they all share the same concept
<whitequark> processing jpegs is surprisingly problematic
<devyn> ...that concept being sensor data.
<devyn> that's all it is
<devyn> lol
<whitequark> no seriously
<nuck> Yes but it's more than just a bitmap devyn
<devyn> yes'
<devyn> I know!
<devyn> lol
<whitequark> think making a burst shot
<nuck> the sensor data is that odd array thing and you can do crazy shit with the raw data
<whitequark> at maximal framerate possible
<nuck> Like adjusting the ISO
<devyn> but sensor data → bitmap isn't trivial; it's camera specific
<nuck> Sort of devyn
<whitequark> and keep in mind iphone doesn't really have a lot of spare RAM
<nuck> ah that's true
<whitequark> once you count out all the framebuffers, DMA buffers and shit
<devyn> not "sort of"
<devyn> it isn't trivial
<devyn> at all
<nuck> devyn: It's not camera specific anymore though
<whitequark> it is camera specific, of course, on mobile devices
<nuck> Since we have FOSS libs to directly pull the data from the censor
<nuck> sensor
<whitequark> they have all sorts of odd proprietary shit written by whatever indian came across that
<whitequark> lol what
<devyn> wat
<nuck> Well, not pull the data, but to process the raw data into a bitmap
<whitequark> even if you can pull the data, the *processing algorithms* are highly specific to the particular sensor
<whitequark> there's no silver bullet for them, you gotta rely on the algos provided by vendor
<whitequark> or reverse-engineer them
<nuck> Photoshop seems to have thoroughly genericized it
<whitequark> no.
<nuck> I've seen raw plugins come out pretty quickly nowadays
<whitequark> camera RAWs have absolutely no relationship whatsoever to data you're pulling from sensors on embedded devices
<nuck> ah
<whitequark> camera RAWs are normalized by camera vendor, first and foremost
<nuck> oh yeah
<nuck> I wonder if iPhone could theoretically have the RAM to shoot a RAW file though
<whitequark> ... wat
<devyn> yes of course it does
<nuck> Or whatever demands it takes to process something into RAW
<whitequark> you don't have an understanding of what RAW is, do you?
<nuck> I'm half asleep right now forgive me for slurring thoughts a bit
* nuck facedesks
<whitequark> it's just whatever binary format the camera vendor decides it wants to output
<whitequark> hence
<whitequark> raw
<whitequark> duh.
<nuck> whitequark: I'm a former design and photography major, yes I fucking know
<nuck> :P
<whitequark> well, nothing prevents iPhone from writing whatever it gets from the sensor to a file
<whitequark> it's just not done because why bother
<whitequark> wrong market
<nuck> Because hipsters love it
<nuck> And sadly I'm fairly certain the APIs prevent a third party app from doing it :/
<devyn> it's not that the APIs prevent it
<nuck> oh?
<devyn> no
<devyn> they just don't give it to you
<devyn> lol
<nuck> what do you mean?
<devyn> I'm not sure whether the software layer even gets the raw data
<nuck> yeah
<whitequark> it does, in a way
<whitequark> on android phones it makes all the way through the kernel to the camera hw-specific so
<whitequark> no reason iphone would be any different; same hardware
<devyn> yeah well then I'd assume iPhones would too
<devyn> yeah
<nuck> So the driver handles the debayer?
<whitequark> yea
<nuck> mmm makes sense
<nuck> Can third party apps even take a picture as anything but a JPEG on iOS?
<devyn> good question
<nuck> I've never seen one capable of saving a PNG or a higher-quality-than-default JPEG, even in the professional range
<nuck> Or a JP2K but who the hell uses JP2K?
<whitequark> likely no
<whitequark> I mean, what is the point in capturing photos as PNG
<whitequark> you're better off with BMP
<devyn> yeah that ^
<nuck> Yeah but last I checked BMP was consistently 0 compression, and on a portable device even slight compression is useful
<nuck> PNG would be able to compress blue skies fairly well
<whitequark> nope
<nuck> No? I think I know the PNG compression techniques, I've only read it 3 times now
<whitequark> I mean, PNG is truly horrible for slight gradients
<whitequark> it's about the worst case ever for it
<nuck> What spec did *you* read?
<whitequark> PNG?
<nuck> According to the PNG spec, slight gradients should compress very well
<nuck> And in my experience they do
sharkbot has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
sharkbot has joined #elliottcable
<nuck> Subtle fairly uniform gradients should be compressed fairly well since the filtering step takes it into a sequences of diffs for most cases and then the diffs should be able to be compressed well
<nuck> At least that's the theory
eligrey has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<whitequark> hmm
<nuck> http://www.libpng.org/pub/png/book/chapter09.html Love the PNG book so much
<nuck> I really should try and fully understand the Paeth predictor more
<nuck> I just kind of glossed over that usually
<nuck> Why am I so bad at mental modeling math?
prophile has joined #elliottcable
Sorella has joined #elliottcable
Sorella has joined #elliottcable
Willox has joined #elliottcable
judofyr has joined #elliottcable
PragCypher has joined #elliottcable
yorick has joined #elliottcable
PragCypher has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<joelteon> hey guys, i have a nooby question
<joelteon> isn't it possible to authenticate yourself using a client certificate
<joelteon> instead of a username/password
<prophile> yes
<joelteon> is there like documentation on how to do that
<joelteon> somewhere
<prophile> yup, /msg nickserv help cert
<joelteon> no i mean on the internet
<prophile> we are on the internet
<joelteon> on a website
<joelteon> i think i may have found one
<joelteon> no I mean *for* a website
<joelteon> not IRC
<joelteon> haha
<prophile> ah
<prophile> i know it's possible, i've just never seen it done
<joelteon> i'm gonna try
<joelteon> ok i'm up to getting a really long base64 string from the client
<joelteon> now I need to figure out what the FUCK to do with it
<whitequark> joelteon: client certificates
<whitequark> take a look at how nginx integrates them
<whitequark> basically you get a user ID and nginx does all the hard work for you
<joelteon> hmmmm
<joelteon> ok that means i'll have to figure out how to get nginx working in development
<whitequark> exactly the same way than in production?
<joelteon> well yeah that was my first thought too
<joelteon> I was getting some weird possibly caching-related bugs
<joelteon> so I gave up on it
<joelteon> guess it's time to give it another shot
<whitequark> okay I'm watching 23rd straight hour of startrek
<whitequark> wonder for how more long should I
<joelteon> keep it up whitequark
<joelteon> i know you can do it
<joelteon> found a bug in yesod devel
<joelteon> hey so guys
judofyr has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<joelteon> using client certificates
<joelteon> is it possible to allow unauthenticated users
<joelteon> and they can still use SSL?
judofyr has joined #elliottcable
gazoombo has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
judofyr has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
eligrey has joined #elliottcable
judofyr has joined #elliottcable
judofyr has quit [Read error: No route to host]
judofyr has joined #elliottcable
judofyr has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
yorick has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
yorick has joined #elliottcable
Sorella has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
alexgordon has joined #elliottcable
<joelteon> fuck
<joelteon> you get less lapis from smelting a block than you do from just mining it
<devyn> yo
<devyn> yo
<devyn> yo
<devyn> yo
<joelteon> yo
<joelteon> yo
<alexgordon> yo
<joelteon> yo
<prophile> yo-yo
<alexgordon> prophile!
<prophile> alexgordon!
<ELLIOTTCABLE> whitequark!
<ELLIOTTCABLE> whitequark: you never talked to me about parametric modeling. Software to use? Getting started? Tips?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> for 3D prototyping parts and pieces
judofyr has joined #elliottcable
<ELLIOTTCABLE> judofyr!
judofyr has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
<ELLIOTTCABLE> no judofyr!
<ELLIOTTCABLE> programming
<devyn> lol
<ELLIOTTCABLE> it has bytes and shit
<ELLIOTTCABLE> there's things that you make with your keyboard and computer them
<ELLIOTTCABLE> sometimes there's insects and you have to squash them
<ELLIOTTCABLE> and then you use a debugger to get the goo off your cpu otherwise your programming won't work
<devyn> <3 ELLIOTTCABLE
<devyn> yo purr, what the fuck
<devyn> -start
ELLIOTTCABLE changed the topic of #elliottcable to: #softwaredevelopmentaccordingtoelliott
<devyn> -test
<devyn> -ping
<purr> devyn: Error: Failure while printing test status.
<purr> devyn: pong
<devyn> oh there.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> hi, devyn
<ELLIOTTCABLE> talk about something cool to me
<devyn> man I don't know, today's kinda shiity
<devyn> shitty*
<joelteon> ##mac is not helpful at all
<ELLIOTTCABLE> me too
<ELLIOTTCABLE> mine too*
<ELLIOTTCABLE> it's covered in insect guts, and gdb isn't helping
<ELLIOTTCABLE> hee hee
<devyn> lol
<purr> lol
<ELLIOTTCABLE> devyn: what's up? my week's been terribs.
<devyn> date cancelled tonight due to hospitalization of her family member
<devyn> :(
<devyn> and I can't even contact her to make sure she's okay
<devyn> so
<ELLIOTTCABLE> you go on dates?
<devyn> I'm feeling pretty bad.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> do you know her well enough to *need* to contact?
<devyn> difficult question, I want to say yes but I haven't known her all that long
<ELLIOTTCABLE> mmm.
<devyn> we have talked
<devyn> a lot
<devyn> and consequentially I care about her
<devyn> that's a word right?
<devyn> I think so.
<joelteon> I can understand why people complain about macs not "just working"
<devyn> they work well for 99% of people and the hardware overall is very well balanced and compatible
<devyn> but homebrew is a piece of shit, honestly.
<joelteon> i like homebrew a lot
<joelteon> the problem is with keychain access
<joelteon> it's crap
<devyn> haha
<ELLIOTTCABLE> consequently*
<ELLIOTTCABLE> conflating consequent and sequentially.
<devyn> yep
<devyn> thought I might be
<ELLIOTTCABLE> it's actually a word, but clearly, it's speaking of sequentiality.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> “occuring within the sequence of.”
<ELLIOTTCABLE> or similar
<ELLIOTTCABLE> brb shower
<joelteon> also, the internal OSX stuff for managing authorization is crap
<joelteon> as well
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I want to program. I just don't know what.
<devyn> SAME HERE
<devyn> lol
<purr> lol
<ELLIOTTCABLE> joelteon: I swear, you are the most interesting person.
<devyn> it's like I've run out of ideas
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I mean, I usually say it to insult you
<ELLIOTTCABLE> but it's actually *impressive* for how long, and how consistently, you've managed to avoid engaging in *actual conversations with others present*.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Some day, you're going to syndicate your Twitter posts to IRC, and nobody's going to notice the difference.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> devyn: let's idea-brainstorm!
<joelteon> I don't post on IRC
<joelteon> or
<ELLIOTTCABLE> … after I shower. and walk dogs. and do all my dishes. and build a car.
<joelteon> on twitter
<joelteon> I do a lot on IRC
<joelteon> I usually try to spur discussion or helpfulness with it
<devyn> lol okay
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I want to build an engine.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> can I CNC a small engine?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> whitequark: I'm going to CNC a tiny engine on my strangely inadequate Kickstarter scam router-table.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> and then it will blow up and I will die.
<joelteon> fucking FUCK
<joelteon> I NEED DOCUMENTATION
<devyn> joelteon: yep he's right
<devyn> hahahaha
<devyn> you tend to have conversations with yourself on IRC
<joelteon> it's not a conversation
<devyn> it's pretty amusing.
<joelteon> it's a monologue
<devyn> you know what I meant
<joelteon> i'm too accustomed to doing it in help channels
<joelteon> so i do it here too
<devyn> huh I rarely go to help channels. I mean the other day I visited #sequel for a weird problem but I've since figured it out
Sorella has joined #elliottcable
Sorella has joined #elliottcable
Sorella has quit [Changing host]
<devyn> I should probably go back and tell them it actually is a bug but not really one I'd expect them to fix
<joelteon> yeah i usually go in help channels, ask questions
<devyn> since what I was doing was so weird
<joelteon> and then wait for 18 hours or so
<joelteon> occasionally bringing up relevant bits of my debugging efforts
<joelteon> people find it really irritating, which is good
<devyn> basically I subclassed Sequel::Model(Sequel.lit("lists.\"#{list.id}\"")) which works for the most part
<devyn> except in a few things
<devyn> which try to enclose that in quotes again
<devyn> like "lists.""1"""
<devyn> which did not work.
<devyn> it would work if I had done Sequel::Model("lists__#{list.id}".to_sym)
<devyn> but I don't really like to create symbols from dynamic data
<devyn> if I can help it
<devyn> haha
<joelteon> yeah
<joelteon> i think there's a library function you can call to get all the symbols that have been referenced
<joelteon> it's awesome
<devyn> it's awesome for figuring out if you have symbol leaks, yes
<joelteon> oh my FUCKING GOd i figured it out
<devyn> not so awesome if you actually do have one
<joelteon> yeah
<joelteon> phew, i can't believe i solved a thing and it's only 4 PM
<joelteon> ok hey guys
<joelteon> uh
<joelteon> client certificate support is fucking crap
<joelteon> in browsers
<devyn> yes this is not a new thing
<devyn> they're also rather annoying for users
<joelteon> good thing the only user for this one is me
<joelteon> devyn, are they a "good idea"
<devyn> they're secure but there aren't really any good tools to make them accessible
<devyn> or portable
<joelteon> portable...
<joelteon> oh yeah
<joelteon> i'll need to put this on a USB stick or something
<joelteon> or maybe in a private git repo
<joelteon> for a bit