<vil> I feel like I should get into bitcoins
<vil> is it worth it for anything but the novelty factor? I'm not gonna buy a mining machine
<alexgordon> depends
<alexgordon> I wouldn't stick money in it for a long amount of time, unless you're happy to say goodbye to it :P
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<sanitypassing> D'you know what is worse than math homework?
<sanitypassing> Nothing. Nothing is worse than math homework.
<sanitypassing> Except for maybe English homework.
<sanitypassing> well, I'd say they're about equal in terms of "homework that I never want to do ever again"
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<Nuck> sanitypassing: JAVA homework.
<Nuck> So yes, there is something worse.
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<Nuck> I think I'm gonna spend a few hours to port my stuff to oh-my-zsh
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<devyn> alexgordon: dude, that's worth quite a bit now :p
<alexgordon> devyn: ikr
<devyn> US$23.42, exactly, at this moment
<devyn> on MtGox
<devyn> by what means did you get it? did you buy, or mine them?
<alexgordon> shared between two...
<alexgordon> :P
<alexgordon> devyn: donations for ingredients.app
<devyn> heh, neat
<devyn> I actually think people are likely to donate to bitcoin addresses if they're there
<devyn> just for the novelty value
<devyn> alexgordon: anyway, you should try bitcoin gambling :D
<devyn> it's fun, actually
<alexgordon> I've already got a mtgox account
<devyn> I mean casinos and shit
<devyn> woo, I just doubled 0.01 BTC :)
<sanitypassing> Nuck: Java is bad no matter what.
<sanitypassing> so it doesn't count. :P
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<micahjohnston> sanitypassing: eh math homework is therapeutic for me
<micahjohnston> sanitypassing: and english homework is just typing out things onto a page and being done :p
<sanitypassing> well, I've always been bad at math.
<sanitypassing> so evne though the math is familiar to me, and it's fairly easy math, it's still difficult in a way for me to do.
<micahjohnston> well in that case I understand
<sanitypassing> s/evne/even/
<sanitypassing> I'm averaging a C at Beginner's Algebra right now.
<sanitypassing> I'm just not a "math person".
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<micahjohnston> mhm
<micahjohnston> well, keep at it i suppose
<micahjohnston> it's rewarding/useful
<sanitypassing> well, I'm majoring in Linguistics. I don't see much use for advanced math in my future.
<sanitypassing> though I suppose it is always nice to know...
<micahjohnston> oh yeah, you mentioned that
<sanitypassing> :\
<micahjohnston> well there's cool stuff for math in lingusitics, whether it's statistical math for that type of thing, or more symbolic math for chomskyan approaches
<sanitypassing> eh, perhaps.
<sanitypassing> which is sort-of why I don't necessarily mind learning it. It *could* be useful in the future.
<micahjohnston> mhm
<Nuck> Ugh
<sanitypassing> I would just prefer it to not be that way.
<sanitypassing> Honestly, despite what I may say, I don't really hate math
<sanitypassing> I'm just very bad at it.
<sanitypassing> I frequently misremember steps, and I'm horrid at mental calculation
<Nuck> I'm basically gutting oh-my-zsh and copying it manually (modified) into my own zsh setup, so I can remove the bloat but maintain compatibility
<sanitypassing> lol compatibility.
<purr> lol
<sanitypassing> You need to break compatibility some time. Why not now? :P
<devyn> it's a tradeoff; there are people who are naturally good at calculation who aren't as good at other mental tasks
<Nuck> sanitypassing: Eh, no I don't
<devyn> it all depends on what you do
<Nuck> Well, to an extent
<Nuck> I'm just trying to maintain the plugins/ and shit
<micahjohnston> well I gtg
<micahjohnston> gnight
<sanitypassing> Nuck: Plugins are overrated.
<sanitypassing> PLAIN ZSH IS BEST ZSH
<sanitypassing> devyn: define "what you do"?
<sanitypassing> career-wise, or just in general, or what?
<devyn> in general
<sanitypassing> I see.
<devyn> what your brain spends time doing and thus exercises
<sanitypassing> My brain hardly ever does anything.
<devyn> more flexible when you're young
<sanitypassing> at least nothing productive.
<Nuck> sanitypassing: Plain ZSH and you might as well just use bash
<sanitypassing> Nuck: but then I couldn't say I'm using ZSH
<devyn> well, zsh's default settings are /a bit/ better
<devyn> and its completion is better even by default
<Nuck> Well yeah
<sanitypassing> All I've ever used was ZSH and a few changes to the config.
<Nuck> But the true power of zsh is the completions and such
<sanitypassing> not exactly "plain", but I've never needed more.
<Nuck> But oh-my-zsh is too fucking bloaty for me
<sanitypassing> but at the same time, I don't exactly do a lot of complicated tasks via terminal
<Nuck> I spend 90% of my time in Terminal or in a browser
<Nuck> I still haven't fully switched to MacVim
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<Nuck> Ugh
<Nuck> Fucking BSD coreutils
<Nuck> I need to hack around the differences in readlink between BSD and GNU *without linking or aliasing*
<Nuck> I just have to see if the GNU version is installed as greadlink and use that
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<Nuck> Oh man
<Nuck> This is coming along *wonderfully*
<Nuck> This is getting pretty far from oh-my-zsh now haha
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<Nuck> So basically, I'm trying to find a middleground between oh-my-zsh and Prezto, which has the simplicity and smallness of Prezto combined with the ability to drop in an oh-my-zsh thing and have it just work
<Nuck> As well as a Pathogen-style "infect"
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<micahjohnston> hi everybody
<Nuck> Hi micahjohnston
<micahjohnston> hi Nuck
<micahjohnston> how's it going?
<Nuck> Good, hacking together zsh configs while waiting for my phone interview at 11:15
<micahjohnston> oh, good luck
<micahjohnston> what time zone you in? central?
<Nuck> If I were in central it would have passed already
<Nuck> Nah, Pacific. So it's in about 25 minuts
<micahjohnston> oh I was backwards
<micahjohnston> i'm mst so it's 11:50 for me :
<micahjohnston> what's the interview for?
<Nuck> Fellowship in NY
<Nuck> Technically it's a Skype interview, I guess.
<micahjohnston> cool, good luck
<Nuck> Thanks
<micahjohnston> elliottcable is definitely a bot
<micahjohnston> who registers to every possible social media site and posts realistic content
<micahjohnston> and the only reason he seems like a real person is because of the sheer volume of social media sites with different types of content
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<Nuck> Mornin' alexgordon
<alexgordon> nuck off nuck
<gqbrielle> ooh, good luck Nuck
<gqbrielle> derp, left myself logged in to IRC
<vil> gqbrielle: hi!
<gqbrielle> hi vil!
<vil> hi micahjohnston also
* gqbrielle peers at Guest73391_& Guest96579
<gqbrielle> wat
<Nuck> Underscore-guest is Ass-cat
<Nuck> Other is cloudhead
<Nuck> And hi vil
<vil> hi Nuck
<vil> so somebody is using code that I wrote
<vil> and that's pretty awesome
<Nuck> oh?
<Nuck> What code?
<vil> Comparator
<vil> rockets is using it for his server
<micahjohnston> vil: cool
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<Nuck> And dealt with
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<Nuck> Said I should hear back in a few days to a week, since hte class is almost filled
<gqbrielle> cool cool
<Nuck> also lol I've been coding longer than the interviewer
<purr> lol
<Nuck> I'm happy that I started this new zsh config project, it gives me a good big-sounding project to answer "any cool projects you've worked on lately?" with
<Nuck> Both myself and the interviewer were amateurs at interviews, so that was kinda... funny to watch
<Nuck> vil: Why do you drop your user down instead of just using iptables?
<vil> Nuck: because I don't know what that is :D
<vil> edumacate me
<Nuck> vil: iptables is a "firewall" though it is usually used as an internal port-routing system
<Nuck> You can use it to make it so a non-root user can bind a higher port, and that port is shown externally as 80
<Nuck> It's used on Linux, IDK what the equivalent on Mac would be
<whitequark> usually? lolwat
<purr> lol
<Nuck> It's true — most uses of iptables I've found involved internal port-routing more than port-blocking or firewalling
<Nuck> And seen in production too
<vil> Nuck: oh neat
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<micahjohnston> jo
<micahjohnston> hi*
<micahjohnston> alexgordon: so right now my conception of tempus has only atomic types (numbers, etc.) and I have a hunch that I can find a good solution to compound types, modules/namespaces, and my whole aop/mixins dream at the same time
<vil> olo
<alexgordon> olé
<micahjohnston> so you should help me brainstorm
<micahjohnston> :3
<micahjohnston> so possibilities:
<micahjohnston> algebraic data types a la haskell
<micahjohnston> data types composed of mixins/typeclasses
<micahjohnston> stuff like atomo where you separate both the operations for a data type and the different cases of the data type
<micahjohnston> so a user can add a new operation to a data type themselves, or add a new constructor and implement all operations for it
<micahjohnston> orrrrr
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<Nuck> orrrrrrr just stop talking, I guess?
<Nuck> Sorta trailed off there
<vil> the way I want to do it in Cascade is that an "object" is just a pile of data that matches a pattern/signature
<vil> so you can implement operations with the same name differently for each type, just by matching different signatures
<vil> e.g. + would concatenate strings but add numbers
<alexgordon> vil: you should totally work on furrow instead ;)
<vil> (except not because + concat is terrible)
<alexgordon> I should start a kickstarter for furrow
<vil> it sort of simulates classes/methods, but it's less formal and you can sort of toss stuff on whenever you want
<vil> so mixins
<vil> alexgordon: has it changed any since last time I saw the spec?
<vil> that was a while ago
<alexgordon> nope
<alexgordon> I've written a few Furrow Amendment Proposals
<vil> …you totally named it that on purpose
<alexgordon> yeah well it amends furrow, you see
<vil> uh-huh
<alexgordon> proposals to amend furrow, what else could I name it?
<vil> uh-huh
<alexgordon> but yeah
<alexgordon> haven't decided which to go with
<alexgordon> like set literals
<alexgordon> {1,2,3}
<alexgordon> the only thing I *haven't* worked out is how to construct types with parameters
<vil> I was working on Cascade's sequence notation in Calc the other day
<alexgordon> like you can't do Set(Int)([1, 2, 3])
<alexgordon> because that would be ambiguous
<vil> how so?
<alexgordon> well
<alexgordon> Set(Int)
<alexgordon> is a type
<vil> Oh, right
<alexgordon> but you might do it with no type
<alexgordon> Set([1, 2, 3])
<alexgordon> and have the parameter inferred
<vil> why not just require both sets of parens always?
<alexgordon> because I don't want to write String()(10) to convert something to a string :P
<vil> you know you do
<alexgordon> thinking I might do
<vil> hmmm
<alexgordon> Set(Int).new([1,2,3])
<alexgordon> kind of verbose though
<vil> what about <> for the type
<vil> Set<Int>([1,2,3])
<alexgordon> bad idea
<alexgordon> look at all the problems it's caused in C++
<Nuck> vil: Get the C++ out of here.
<vil> actually Java but ok
<vil> lol
<purr> lol
<alexgordon> C++ first
<Nuck> ^
<alexgordon> also the types ARE going to be written as Set(Int), that's not up for debate
<vil> yeah but I don't know C++ and I hate Java
<Nuck> In fact, I didn't even realize that was in Java still
<alexgordon> just don't know how to do the constructors
<Nuck> Our professor never mentioned it
<vil> yeah, generics are the bane of my existance
<vil> and spelling existence
<alexgordon> if someone can help me fix this I'll give them a free license of choc! :P
<vil> I'm thinking about it
<vil> because I don't want to work on tree traversals
<alexgordon> goooood
<alexgordon> let's see
<alexgordon> I do want the *types* to be written as Set(Int)
<vil> right
<alexgordon> and I do want String(5) to be valid
<vil> I feel like those two can't go together
<alexgordon> could go together if I did like
<vil> what about Set(Int:[1,2,3])
<alexgordon> what if it has more than one parameter?
<alexgordon> Dict(String, Int)
<vil> like hey, this thing is:whatever etc
<vil> Dict(String, Int: "string", 10) ?
<alexgordon> erm
<alexgordon> hold on
<alexgordon> there's two kinds of parameters here
<alexgordon> type parameters, and constructor parameters
<alexgordon> there's no relation between the two
<alexgordon> like in C++ you have
<alexgordon> Map<String, Int>(someOtherMap);
<vil> so it'd be like Dict(String, Int: anotherDict) then
<vil> I was just doing like key, value, key, value type init
<gqbrielle> glance in to IRC, see incomprehensible coding chatter, don't bother scrolling back up
<alexgordon> lol gqbrielle
<purr> lol
<Nuck> gqbrielle: lol
<alexgordon> gqbrielle: talking about type constructor syntax
<alexgordon> duh
<vil> gqbrielle: s'ok I don't really know what's going on either
<gqbrielle> i gathered that much
<gqbrielle> i just don't, y'know, care
<Nuck> And nor do I.
<alexgordon> vil: seems a bit contrived
<gqbrielle> see? my coding academy lessons DID make me learn something!
<gqbrielle> slightly more discerning apathy!
<vil> alexgordon: well I mean
<vil> it works
<alexgordon> sure
<vil> and it's not terribly ugly
<alexgordon> it's ugly compared to the rest of furrow :P
<Nuck> gqbrielle: Too bad there isn't a lesson on their company name
<alexgordon> I think the type parameters and constructor parameters should be separate
<Nuck> Which is "Codecademy" and not "coding academy"
<alexgordon> since they're not related
<alexgordon> colon means relation
<vil> alexgordon: then how can they not be ambiguous?
<vil> well there's got to be some sort of relation, or you won't be able to store that object in there
<vil> maybe not a direct one
<vil> like with String(10)
<alexgordon> vil: well like I suggested Dict(String, Int).new(otherDict)
<alexgordon> though that's ugly
<vil> yeah
<alexgordon> but separate
<vil> ummm
<alexgordon> also
<alexgordon> would be nice if it supported generalized types
<alexgordon> syntactically
<alexgordon> so like
<alexgordon> [Int]
<alexgordon> for List(Int)
<alexgordon> or (String => Int) for Dict(String, Int)
<alexgordon> but I'm not wedded to that
<vil> what about Dict(String, Int)<-otherDict
<vil> So then String<-10
<alexgordon> what about if you have multiple args though?
<vil> well you could wrap it in parens if needed, or somehting
<gqbrielle> Nuck: no1curr
<vil> *something
<vil> hmm just had an interesting idea for creating object in Cascade
<vil> anyway
<vil> *objects
<alexgordon> may just go with
<alexgordon> Dict(String, Int) new(anotherDict)
<alexgordon> without the dot
<alexgordon> and hope it's parseable :P
<vil> hmmmm
<alexgordon> it's not ambiguous but I don't know if Lemon can handle it
<alexgordon> I need to pay like some guy in china to implement furrow for me
<vil> I keep thinking "what if" and then realizing that I'm just replacing my ← with another character
* vil taps his fingers in a rhythmic fashion
<vil> so like, the point of this is that you create new types (sorta) on the fly
<vil> by passing the type args
<vil> well, I like my arrow
<vil> but I dunno
<vil> what type of tree traversal do I need to use to get a range of nodes, starting at any point in a tree?
<vil> I feel like in-order, obviously, but I don't know how to start it off partway down
<Nuck> alexgordon: I get offers in the email all the time for outsourcing providers
<alexgordon> how much do you think it would cost?
<Nuck> For a terrible programmer, $3 an hour or something
<gqbrielle> a;silydg;asiydg
* gqbrielle crawls under a rock
<Nuck> I gotta say
<Nuck> Shell scripting is terrible
<Nuck> So much ambiguity
<alexgordon> Python, man, Python
<Nuck> haha
<Nuck> Is Python that bad too, or are you suggesting it in place of shell?
<alexgordon> mmm I'm so tempted to make a really really basic Furrow, that is not ambitious at all but useful
<alexgordon> no semantic analysis, no optimization
<alexgordon> just, pure syntactic sugar for C++
<alexgordon> can't quite bring myself to do it though
<Nuck> Do that
<Nuck> Call it "Furrow v1"
<Nuck> Then when you finish the full thing
<Nuck> Call it Furrow v2
<alexgordon> lol
<purr> lol
<alexgordon> Furr
* Nuck yiffs alexgordon's butthole
* alexgordon loses shit
<alexgordon> probably not what Nuck wanted
<vil> Nuck: NODE, BITCH
<vil> if only
<vil> nsh
<alexgordon> ok lemme see if I can define miniminifurrow
<alexgordon> Furrow v0
<vil> femto-Furrow
<gqbrielle> alexgordon: or maybe he did, i mean, y'know, Nuck
* gqbrielle gestures vaguely
<vil> haha
<alexgordon> femto Furrow LOL
* alexgordon downloads sketchy russian torrent
<vil> totally building a Cascade shell and calling it cash
<alexgordon> haha
<vil> I was thinking about it yesterday
<vil> like "dammit cshell"
<vil> but then "WAIT I CAN CALL IT CASH"
<gqbrielle> i wonder if there's an extension for chrome that will temporarily block facebook
<vil> gqbrielle: yes
<gqbrielle> i check it compulsively but it's full of Stupid today because of that prop 8 case going before the supreme court
<alexgordon> come on sketchy russian torrent, download for me
<vil> Cascade would be awesome for a shell, because paths are just pattern matching
<vil> 'course, I have to actually implement it fisrt
<vil> *first
<vil> can't type today jeez
<alexgordon> 1.0KBps awwww yeaaaaah
<alexgordon> OMG 6.3
<vil> BLINDING SPEED
<alexgordon> IT'S GOING UP
<vil> in flames
<alexgordon> Viagra™
<alexgordon> 56KBps
<alexgordon> that's like 10x dialup
<alexgordon> erm 8x
<alexgordon> NOW it's 10x
<alexgordon> 2 hours remaining fuuuuuuuu
<Nuck> Did alexgordon says something about feminist furries?
<alexgordon> femto you nuck
<Nuck> Also, vil, have you ever heard the traic story of C-Shell?
<Nuck> That's why nsh is a terrible idea.
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<alexgordon> nooo 0KBps
<alexgordon> DAMN YOU RUSSIANS
<vil> Nuck: the school servers use tcsh
<vil> it's awful
<vil> the words for left and right should totally have been the same length. would make all this code prettier
<alexgordon> left rite
<vil> YES
<alexgordon> okaaay
<alexgordon> definition of femtofurrow done
<Nuck> femtofurry sounds like a transspecies operation where they replace your vagina with a tail
<alexgordon> FURROW
<alexgordon> "A long narrow trench made in the ground by a plow, esp. for planting seeds or for irrigation."
<gqbrielle> it sounds like some sort of conjugation (lol conjugation) of furry
<purr> lol
<gqbrielle> furry, furries, furrow, furrows
<gqbrielle> a...a conjoined furry?
<gqbrielle> furrows, n, a group of conjoined furries?
<vil> alexgordon: I really like the reverse variable declarations
<alexgordon> vil: yeah I decided that the variable name is more important than the type ages ago, then Google Go came along and stole my idea :P
<vil> gonna steal it for Cascade, but for a different reason
<vil> maybe
<vil> hmm
<vil> type checking in Cascade is going to be "interesting"
<micahjohnston> alexgordon: well pascal had that idea before both of you
<vil> I guess you can't really even give things types, only check what's there
<alexgordon> micahjohnston: yeah but pascal never existed :P
<micahjohnston> uh what?
<alexgordon> micahjohnston: nobody uses nor talks about pascal anymore, it's like it doesn't exist
<alexgordon> anyway what do you think of femtofurrow?
<micahjohnston> all right :P
<micahjohnston> well actionscript 3 also does it
<vil> I have a Pascal book at home
<micahjohnston> based on ecmascript whatever version
<micahjohnston> based on pascal
<micahjohnston> :P
<vil> will read eventually
<micahjohnston> alexgordon: idk what's femtofurrow
<vil> watch the pretty green cursor with me
<alexgordon> micahjohnston: if I don't have enough time to implement full furrow, maybe I can implement a really simple preprocessor for 80% of the features
<alexgordon> none of the interesting bits, but it'll at least save me writing C++ lol
<purr> lol
<vil> it'd be interesting to do typechecking on assignment in Cascade, but I have no idea what would happen if it failed
<vil> because no exceptions, and interpreted
<vil> actually, I suppose that would be a good place for my "exceptions as a value" idea
<vil> lol what if I just had exceptions propogate forever
<vil> like
<vil> if something returns an exception instead of data
<vil> and you call an accessor on it or something
<vil> you just get the same exception
<vil> and that could go on forever
<vil> until something actually checked for it