<alexgordon> yay so I think I have this figured out
<alexgordon> just need to figure out how to do a weighted least squares with only 1 independent variable
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<sanitypassing> is it a bad thing when my Nexus 7 is faster than my laptop?
<Nuck> Nah, my iPhone is usually faster than my laptop too
<Nuck> But I always have 100-500 tabs open in Chrome
<Nuck> So that's to be expected
<sanitypassing> Yeah, I don't have THAT many open.
<sanitypassing> maybe 7-8 at any given time. Usually less.
<Nuck> I have no fewer than 4 apache projects open in tabs
<Nuck> As well as a full 50 tabs of rails and ruby stuff
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<sanitypassing> my computer would die if I attempted that much.
<sanitypassing> it's very old, and not very fast.
<Nuck> (the apache projects, incidentally, are Storm, Mesos, Lucene, and Solr"
<sanitypassing> however, I am getting a new one soon.
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<sanitypassing> a little faster, a little newer, but not *that* fast.
<Nuck> Yeah I'm on a fairly recent Mac, but Chrome is surprisingly performant on even bad computers
<sanitypassing> yeah
<sanitypassing> I like Chrome.
<Nuck> I think part of it comes from the fact that scheduling is handled largely by the OS, so it doesn't schedule internally (which usually involves nasty lockups)
<Nuck> Yay for the process model?
<sanitypassing> heh.
<sanitypassing> ah, I really need to get back into programming.
<Nuck> Doooeeeeeeet
<sanitypassing> I've been meaning to for so long, but with school, it's been a pain
<sanitypassing> I'll have all summer to start a project though
<Nuck> hehe
<Nuck> My school *is* programming!
<sanitypassing> heh.
<sanitypassing> mine isn't.
<Nuck> In Java and Visual Basic, though, so I have to pretend it doesn't exist
<sanitypassing> heh, Visual Basic.
<sanitypassing> CompSci major?
<Nuck> Yep
<sanitypassing> cool, cool.
<sanitypassing> I was going to do that, but I ended up deciding on Linguistics instead.
<Nuck> I assumed everyone here was CS major
<sanitypassing> Nope.
<sanitypassing> Just nearly everyone.
<Nuck> Wait... Like, regular linguistics?
<Nuck> Or *computer* linguistics?
<sanitypassing> Descriptive Linguistics.
<sanitypassing> specifically.
<Nuck> wuzzat
<sanitypassing> heh.
<Nuck> That human languages?
<sanitypassing> Yep.
<Nuck> ah
<Nuck> What led you to go with human languages instead of computer languages?
<sanitypassing> I *might* minor in CompSci, but I'm already planning to minor in a language, so that might be too much at once
<sanitypassing> well
<sanitypassing> I like computers, and I enjoy programming (whenever I actually do it), but it's always been more of a hobby for me.
<sanitypassing> something I'm not sure I could do professionally.
<Nuck> ah fun
<Nuck> Well, I'm sure the linguistics angle on programming would be a unique one
<sanitypassing> mmm.
<sanitypassing> well if I ever become a good enough programmer, I could probably still work in computational linguistics.
<sanitypassing> it would just be a lot harder for me to find a job, lacking a CompSci degree
<Nuck> Technically I don't think I was a CS major when I joined this room at the time
<Nuck> I *was* a designer back then. Ha, how silly I was.
<sanitypassing> heh.
<Nuck> I can't design work shit.
<Nuck> It'd be like eboy trying to be a CS major.
<sanitypassing> I tried my hand at design once.
<sanitypassing> ONCE.
<Nuck> haha
<sanitypassing> I was terrible at it.
<sanitypassing> Still am.
<Nuck> I still work like a pro in Photoshop, to the amazement of all around. The whole dual-screen, hands-on-the-shortcuts power-user setup
<sanitypassing> yeah, I could never do that.
<Nuck> I can judge design like a baws, but man... I'm not NEARLY creative enough for design
<sanitypassing> :\
<Nuck> I'm great at solving problems creatively!
<sanitypassing> I have no creativity or design skill.
<sanitypassing> so it was never going to work out
<sanitypassing> design, that is
<Nuck> But when some guy goes "hey make a logo for me"... I'll shit on a paper for him and call the smear a "logo"
<Nuck> Fucking open-ended questions.
<sanitypassing> programming, I'm *okay* at it, but I still have *a lot* to learn, and my problem solving skills could really use some work.
<Nuck> Well if you got invited into here you must have *some* redeeming factor.
<Nuck> Mine is penises, I think. I'm otherwise not sure why I'm here.
<sanitypassing> ... penises?
<Nuck> -back
<purr> Nuck: Welcome back! Here, have some welcome-back penises. http://youtu.be/RvkWhGVNky4
<Nuck> Penises.
<sanitypassing> wat.
<sanitypassing> well anyway
<sanitypassing> I'm sure there is a reason why I'm here, I just don't remember it.
<Nuck> Probably the linguistics thing. everybody here has a fascination with linguistics in some form
<sanitypassing> Probably not. I do remember being here before I decided to major in Linguistics.
<Nuck> Well that's certainly odd.
<Nuck> Well we all have our stories of how we ended up here. Mine was just a whim of elliott's after I helped him IIRC
<sanitypassing> I see.
<Nuck> And I'm only still here because I have an odd tendency to not part rooms ever.
<Nuck> I'm still in #japanese.utf8 over on Rizon IRC, even though I'm a massive Japan00b.
<sanitypassing> heh.
<micahjohnston> sanitypassing: hey I like linguistics
<micahjohnston> also something interesting: Larry Wall designed Perl from a more linguistic perspective than a compsci one, because he used to be a linguist
<micahjohnston> I think he was a missionary with his wife or something, translating the bible and whatnot or something like that
<sanitypassing> hmm, that is interesting
<micahjohnston> and a lot of programmers hate its design
<micahjohnston> but I kind of like it
<sanitypassing> I've never really seen much Perl.
<Nuck> micahjohnston: Is that why Perl has 15 different meanings for everything?
<Nuck> Based on context?
<micahjohnston> well if that statement is true then yes
<micahjohnston> I like perl though
<micahjohnston> if you *learn* perl it's really natural
<sanitypassing> argh, summer, come faster. D:
<micahjohnston> spring break!
<sanitypassing> already over. :(
<sanitypassing> didn't last long enough...
<micahjohnston> aw
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<sanitypassing> it's not so much that I'm looking forward to school ending, but rather the MTG 2014 Core Set being released. :D
<sanitypassing> but no school would definitely be nice.
<sanitypassing> oh god I hope those are commons.
<sanitypassing> I see a lot of basic lands, but there are a lot that I don't know the images.
<gkatsev> in the video she points out a few cards and you could probably see some of them
<sanitypassing> yeah
<sanitypassing> she pointed out a few Chandra-themed cards
<sanitypassing> but unless it's Chandra herself, they're not worth much
<gkatsev> right, those
<sanitypassing> ... it's still probably $50+ worth of cards.
<gkatsev> $25 at most
<sanitypassing> seeing cards cut up like that makes me die a little inside. Even if they are of low value / commonality.
<gkatsev> in previous years when I was at PAX, there were always people selling 1000 cards in a box for $25
<sanitypassing> yeah, you can usually get bulk commons/uncommons like that.
<sanitypassing> I've been meaning to order some, actually, for a Ironman Pauper torney.
<gkatsev> I kind of wish I ended up going this year
<sanitypassing> heh, I wish it was even possible for me to go.
<sanitypassing> I heard they previewed a lot of Dragon's Maze there.
<gkatsev> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<sanitypassing> ah, and the offical name for "Friends"
<sanitypassing> the block coming right after M14.
<sanitypassing> "Theros"
<sanitypassing> and apparently the ten mythics from the set are going to be the guild champions.
<sanitypassing> the set being Dragon's Maze. derp
<Nuck> micahjohnston: If I want natural coding, I'll use Ruby.
<Nuck> And I do.
<Nuck> And I enjoy it.
<sanitypassing> I tried Ruby once.
<sanitypassing> I didn't really like it that much.
<sanitypassing> :\
<Nuck> I picked it up a couple months back, and I *adore* it.
<Nuck> It truly is like the good bits of every language thrown together into a coherent little package
<micahjohnston> I like Ruby too
<micahjohnston> just the hate for perl irks me
<Nuck> Perl did some great stuff for regexes
<sanitypassing> Scala?
<sanitypassing> Oh, a JVM language?
<gkatsev> it's a joke on perl6
<sanitypassing> the logo that Wikipedia has for the Perl 6 page is slightly terrifying.
<Nuck> Perl's never had good logos
<gkatsev> lol, it's hilarious
<purr> lol
<malia> ..
<Nuck> Hai malaria
<malia> Nuck malaria?
<malia> heh
<Nuck> malia: You africa-murderer you
<malia> Nuck, not even close
<malia> malia = mary in Hawaiian
<Nuck> Weird, I know somebody with another thing in Hawaiian creole on Rizon
<Nuck> But I think they have a penis whereas you don't
<malia> Nuck last time I checked, no penis
<Nuck> malia: You sure? I hear they can grow quite suddenly
<Nuck> (Also, I said I was here because penises, and I speak the truth)
<malia> Nuck if so I will keep it taped down
<Nuck> malia: Good solution, though if /r/spacedicks is any indicator, there's a multitude of ways to rid yourself of a pesky penis.
<malia> Nuck heh heh, no worries, I have enough estrogen to keep it under control. How you been anyway?
<Nuck> Good, you?
<malia> Nuck, doing good--no complaints except rain right now. Freezing my tuchas off
<Nuck> malia: haha I'm in Cali and it's fucking hot here. I'll take rain over this any day of the week!
<malia> Nuck I was complaining that it was dry before, now I am complaining about the rain.. Cali gets dangerous when dry,,,where?
<Nuck> malia: Central. We're not dry here.
<Nuck> We have farmland and shit
<Nuck> Only "drought" we get is artifical — we send all our water down south to keep them alive
<malia> Nuck understood.
<malia> Nuck yeah, in Colorado we would send our water to L.A. greedy bstds
<Nuck> haha
<Nuck> malia: Sounds like we're in the same basket!
<malia> Nuck yeah, while rafting I made sure to tinkle in the Colorado River :D
<malia> Here's a gift, L.A.
<malia> (I am bad)
<Nuck> hahaha
<Nuck> We dump our bodies in the California Aqueduct which feeds socal
<malia> Nuck now that's the spirit? why didn't I think of that? Course nobody died on my rafting adventure... thank God
<Nuck> haha
<Nuck> malia: You're not as gangsta as us Californians
<malia> Nuck yeah, Colorado is full of wusses
<Nuck> Except fear of heights. That's something Colorado is lacking in.
<malia> Nuck I have a new dog (only real news)
<Nuck> Oh? Me too!
<malia> yeah, Nuck some roads give you queasy stomach
<Nuck> Ours just showed up on our doorstep one night
<malia> YOU TOO tell me about your doggie
<malia> oh wow
<Nuck> Yeah, and we fed him and let him stay with us... Owner didn't show up and now it's been a month or two
<Nuck> He's adorable as hell, part of the family now
<malia> awwwwww nice!
<Nuck> His name is bandit cause of his eyehair.
<malia> I've had mine about the same length of time. A family was moving
<Nuck> He chews fucking everything though, jesus christ. And humps everything.
<malia> NO!!!!! mine has that kind of racoon mask too
<malia> LOL
<purr> lol
<Nuck> I've caught him humping our other male dog sideways
<Nuck> I guess he figures he'll EVENTUALLY find a hole
<malia> HEH HEH think you better get him neutered..
<malia> I just got mine "fixed"
<malia> he sez he wasn't broken
<Nuck> Yeah we gotta get him fixed. Kinda tricky though, we can't register him
<malia> mine is a chewer too...maybe we have the same dog
<Nuck> Only two dogs allowed in city limits
<Nuck> haha it sounds like we do XD
<malia> OHHHHHH
<malia> gawd I love this dog... best one I have ever had....
<malia> I spend all my time fixing his toys
<Nuck> I have to say I love this dog too. He's crazy and he doesn't know how big he is
<Nuck> So he ends up sitting on top of everything
<Nuck> He's sat on our two other dogs' faces
<Nuck> Also has a horrible tendency to run UNDER their hind legs, lifting them up on their front paws
<malia> NO !!! I love it. wish you had a picture
<malia> How much does he weigh?
<Nuck> Lemme see, I think I've got one... most of my pics are of him upside-down in his cage (we put him in there at nights so he doesn't eat our bookshelf)
<Nuck> No fucking clue, honestly
<malia> I put mine in his crate at night too so we have a house left
<Nuck> haha yeah
<Nuck> malia: I think we have the *same exact dog*
<malia> Nuck dang, I think we do, but mine is only 14 pounds
<Nuck> haha I don't think ours is 14 pounds
<Nuck> Probably closer to 140 pounds
<Nuck> 14 is TINY
<malia> HOLY COW
<malia> yes, 14 is one of your dog's testicles
<Nuck> He's enormous, and probably not more than a year old
<Nuck> He's as big as our fully-grown Shepherd-lab mix
<malia> SHEESH he might grow more....
<Nuck> haha yeah that's the scary part
<Nuck> But kinda cool
<Nuck> I wanna ride him to school
<Nuck> Like a horse
<malia> have you tried getting him some of those rawhide chews?
<malia> yeah !
<Nuck> Yeah we have those but the other male dog gets REALLY jealous
<Nuck> He's gotten kinda ferocious after Bandit showed up, he's been chilling out though
<malia> oh you have to get lots of them, then
<Nuck> We got one for each of our dogs, though the old one doesn't really have the ability to
<malia> if you can get a neighbor to get him neutered for you in his/her name he will chill a bit
<Nuck> She's like 95 in human years
<malia> wow that's old!
<malia> I LOVE DOGS
<Nuck> Well Bandit's actually fine
<Nuck> He's chill as hell
<malia> Nuck it is the little ones like mine who think they are Napoleon
<Nuck> But Koda (our other male dog) is not used to having another dog in the house to compete with him
<malia> Nuck he will adjust (I hope)
<Nuck> Seems to be
<Nuck> He's not growling over his squeaktoy anymore
<malia> OH GOOD, take em for a walk together so they will pack up... (Cesar Milan style)
<Nuck> Some pics
<Nuck> malia: That's actually a good idea heh
<malia> Yeah, I think it works!
<malia> I just read another one of his books from the library.
<Nuck> And yeah you can see his great pose there with all four in the air
<malia> OH I hate to leave good company, but it is movietime at my house..we rented a DVD
<malia> I LOVE HIS POSE we do have the same dog
<Nuck> Well have fun, malia!
<Nuck> haha
<Nuck> malia: Except mine is 10x bigger XD
<malia> seriously same personality and bellies to the sky
<malia> yep!! night Nuck. CUL
<Nuck> That's crazy
<Nuck> o/
<malia> :)
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<devyn> elliottcable: 0.03945504 BTC :D
<Nuck> devyn: Mined?
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<devyn> Nuck: yeah, in Slush's pool
<devyn> though I think I might look at the stats for 50BTC, because they've been getting a lot of blocks lately, and even though I would get less of a share I might get more than I'm getting now due to the greater frequency
<devyn> yeah I think I might make more off 50BTC
<devyn> it's pay-per-share too
<devyn> so
<devyn> granted, if Slush's pool has good luck, I'd get more
<devyn> but it hasn't today
<devyn> hmm
<devyn> this requires a lot of planning :p
<devyn> think I might wait until this current round is over, and then try 50btc for a while
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<Nuck> haha
<Nuck> Fucking bitcoin miners
<Nuck> BTC is silly.
<Nuck> A toy.
<Nuck> An interesting toy, but a toy nonetheless
<devyn> Nuck: 1 BTC is worth like $63 now, and there's like $800,000 worth of transactions every 15 minutes :p
<devyn> bitcoin mining on the other hand is indeed silly
<devyn> but it's kind of fun
<devyn> watching a number go up without really doing anything, and then realizing you made like $3 by running your GPU at 100% for a day
<devyn> is fun
<devyn> Nuck: I've heard bitcoin gambling is fun, too, but I've yet to try that
<Nuck> devyn: Yes, but BTC are not a serious currency.
<Nuck> They're too unstable and inflationary for any serious business transactions
<Nuck> They're fine for less legitimate or less mission-critical transactions, but for anything where margins are below 10% you're in trouble
<micahjohnston> Nuck: just because you designate a concept to have a word apply to it does not mean that you have won the argument
<micahjohnston> and I see I have kinda made a fool of myself because you later provided justifications
<devyn> Nuck: they're not indefinitely unstable, and a bitcoin economy wouldn't expect to have static prices anyway
<devyn> Nuck: there's this one bitcoin VPS service whose prices drop all the time as BTC become more scarce
<micahjohnston> devyn: well that seems to slightly defeat the purpose of a currency ;p
<devyn> micahjohnston: well, as far as I understand it, the value will sort of converge at some point
<devyn> I think it's less volatile now than it used to be
<micahjohnston> ok
<devyn> also, apparently there will be no more bitcoins to mine in the year 2140
<devyn> sometime
<devyn> and before that mining will be worth so, so much less
<devyn> so, with luck, slush's pool will get me more, but 50btc's PPS model would mean a perfectly stable income
<devyn> of about $4/day
<devyn> with luck though slush's could get me quite a bit more than that
<devyn> or not
<devyn> it depends on the pool's luck
<micahjohnston> well anyway everyone
<micahjohnston> gnight
<micahjohnston> <3
<Nuck> OMG
<Nuck> "In his team, they have a full-size Justin Bieber cutout that gets placed facing the team member who broke the build. They found that "100% of software engineers don't like Justin Bieber", and will work quickly to fix the build problem."
<Nuck> How much do you pay for the 50btc thing?
<devyn> Nuck: hmm?
<devyn> you mean in electricity, or what?
<devyn> haha maybe I'll try Pay on Target mining
<devyn> which is basically gambling, lol
<purr> lol
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<whitequark> oooh cool, I found some docs on ruby's parser
<whitequark> "For example EXPR_BEG to precisely "We own head scanner Beginning of a sentence or salted cod to move like a state. "
<whitequark> i like salted cod.
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<micahjohnston> elliottcable: finally got around to setting up ssh with your server on this computer
<micahjohnston> elliottcable: what folder was www in again?
<vil> micahjohnston: hi!
<vil> Nuck: that's the best thing ever
<micahjohnston> hi vil
<vil> micahjohnston: how's life?
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<Nuck> vil: Ohai
* vil waves
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<alexgordon> I've decided I like bitcoins
<vil> how so?
<alexgordon> before I was 50% convinced they were going to fail, now I'm only 30% :P
<vil> haha
<micahjohnston> vil: wanting to make a website
<micahjohnston> I had great times on a forum 5-7 years ago
<micahjohnston> all about making games and related media
<vil> I need to get around to doing that eventually
<micahjohnston> everybody was really creative and we were good friends
<vil> oh nice
<micahjohnston> so I'm going to make a website that's more social-media-ified
<micahjohnston> with a pinteresty front page
<micahjohnston> and user pages and project pages and stuff
<micahjohnston> so you can like
<micahjohnston> post some art
<micahjohnston> or a song
<vil> so deviantart but not
<micahjohnston> or you can create a whole project and post updates to the project, say a graphic or a demo of a game
<micahjohnston> and multiple people can be in projects
<vil> more project-oriented
<vil> I like it
<micahjohnston> yeah I guess kinda like deviant art but yeah
<micahjohnston> and I want to have some stuff from forums that I'm nostalgic about
<vil> :D
<micahjohnston> I want lots of linear discussions
<micahjohnston> I don't want like reddit branchig
<micahjohnston> or tiny useless comment sections
<vil> yeah, good old threading is still the best IMO
<micahjohnston> like maybe better support for quoting/responding to specific things, but still linear
<vil> should definitely have @username support
<vil> to get people's attention
<micahjohnston> infinitely deep branching comments are a typical engineer/programmer thing
<micahjohnston> yeah
<micahjohnston> like, sacrifice social things for Perfection™
<vil> what about StackOverflow style, with posts that have one level of comment?
<micahjohnston> I hate SO comments
<micahjohnston> good for insights and jokes rising to the top
<vil> maybe not, I suppose that's better suited to answer type sites
<micahjohnston> but bad for friends in a forum creating together
<vil> yeah
<micahjohnston> yeah
<micahjohnston> the more operationally transparent, the better
<micahjohnston> like, remember bumping?
<micahjohnston> idk if I want bumping but I like that there wasn't the meddling Facebook algorithm
<vil> yeah
<micahjohnston> like, I hate how things show a few comments cherry-picked with a show all button
<vil> bumping is nice, because it shows what has interest
<vil> but it also buries interesting stuff that nobody happened to notice
<micahjohnston> yeah
<micahjohnston> I might do some sort of sorting algorithm on the front page
<micahjohnston> but keep discussions intact in order
<micahjohnston> was thinking of just making it like twitter though with everything just in order
<micahjohnston> but the problem with that is that some updates are more monumental than others
<micahjohnston> and will receive more attention than others
<micahjohnston> like, a final release of a game
<micahjohnston> should maybe be weighted more than a one-off 16*16 pixel art
<micahjohnston> :p
<micahjohnston> but idk how to accomplish that
<Nuck> I'm building a deviantART but not
<micahjohnston> Nuck: oh?
<Nuck> Debating how to do this shit... many-to-many relations are a pain in the ass
<Nuck> micahjohnston: Yeah, but we're still focused on art
<Nuck> Target audience is primarily webcomic artists and other semi-professionals
<micahjohnston> oh ok
<Nuck> Eventual expansion into other media types (audio and video) is planned
<Nuck> Right now I'm just trying to cram my tagging model into SQL
<Nuck> Hence my annoyance at many-to-many relationships
<micahjohnston> yeah
<micahjohnston> vil: I'm sure you've already listened, but I'm currently falling in love with SBTRKT
<micahjohnston> specifically "pharaohs"
<vil> I haven't actually
<Nuck> There's GOT to be a better way to do a many-to-many relationship in Rails using Postgres
<Nuck> But noooooooooo Rails is a whore
<vil> micahjohnston: will listen next
<micahjohnston> vil: really bassy, crazy rhythms, kinda "post-dubstep"ey if you know that stuff
<vil> yeah, cool
<vil> speaking of that, did you hear Skrillex's latest experiment?
<micahjohnston> oh, I've Liked it
<micahjohnston> you probalby sent me it
<micahjohnston> I remember something being really cool
<micahjohnston> wonder if it ws this
<micahjohnston> :p
<vil> probably
<micahjohnston> i'm so bad at producinggggggg
<micahjohnston> lol
<purr> lol
<vil> it's the one that starts out all ambientish
<vil> micahjohnston: I know me too
<vil> I have ideas but they don't come out of me properly
<whitequark> many-to-many relationship
<whitequark> mmmmm
<whitequark> I love promiscuity
<micahjohnston> haha
<micahjohnston> game dev is definitely the thing I am best at
<micahjohnston> I should put my games online more
<whitequark> post-dubstep
<vil> Swedish House Mafia's last show is tonight
<vil> at Ultra
<micahjohnston> whitequark: what about it?
<micahjohnston> vil: ever or in the tour?
<micahjohnston> i don't really follow pop-edm much :p
<vil> micahjohnston: ever
<whitequark> micahjohnston: well...
<whitequark> nevermind
<micahjohnston> vil: oh wow
<whitequark> too much cultural and insider context to explain
<micahjohnston> whitequark: for me to explain to you, or what?
<micahjohnston> for you to explain to me?
<whitequark> micahjohnston: me to you.
<micahjohnston> well now you have to tell me what you mean :p
<vil> haha
<Nuck> Oh god
<Nuck> Apparently due to the IntegerCache in Java, only from -128 to 127 does == work on integers
<vil> Nuck: yep, saw that this morning
<Nuck> That's just... WHAT THE FUFK
<vil> Java, that's what
<Nuck> That beats out everything in JavaScript, easily
<whitequark> Nuck: .equal
<Nuck> whitequark: Yes but then why the fuck do we have ==?
<whitequark> but it is FAST
<whitequark> LIEK IN CEE
<vil> the autoboxing picks an already existing object for any numbers between those
<vil> because that's a Good Idea
<vil> ™
<vil> I'm totally gonna start doing 3[stuff] to access arrays in C as well
<whitequark> I just agreed to pay a guy $500 in order to translate the explanation of how ruby's insane lexer works to English
<whitequark> from Japanese.
<whitequark> god why do i have to do this
<vil> haha
<micahjohnston> vil: they're immutable so it doesn't matter
<micahjohnston> vil: saves memory :p
<vil> I've heard stories about Ruby's lexer
<micahjohnston> whitequark: haha wow
<micahjohnston> use cryptanalysis treating the parser as a blackbox
<vil> micahjohnston: I know but still, inconsistent behavior is bad
<whitequark> micahjohnston: $216 ISO standard was not enough
<micahjohnston> vil: it's not inconsistent
<whitequark> micahjohnston: that was in my twitter ><
<micahjohnston> whitequark: yeah mine too lol
<purr> lol
<vil> micahjohnston: it is if you aren't aware that it does that only between -128 and 127
<vil> if it cached everything, sure
<whitequark> my attempt at it
<vil> nice
<whitequark> 1100 LOC and counting; it's not even near to completion
<micahjohnston> vil: oh they're new objects if it's outside that range, thus == doesn't work?
<micahjohnston> ok
<vil> yeah
<micahjohnston> that is inconsistent
<whitequark> but you could at least make some sense from it.
<micahjohnston> thought they weren't autoboxed unless you call methods or whatever
<micahjohnston> :/
<vil> micahjohnston: one more reason I hate Java with the firey passion of a thousand suns
<micahjohnston> alexgordon: where's your very good sandwich
<alexgordon> I ate it
<vil> whitequark: not sure I know enough about lexing to make sense of it either way
<alexgordon> sorry, I hate it
<micahjohnston> whitequark: oh godddd
<micahjohnston> I wrote a paws parser in javascript in like 15 lines
<micahjohnston> granted paws is stripped down as fuck but still
<whitequark> micahjohnston: write me a C++ parser in 15 lines
<micahjohnston> we also made the syntax unambiguous before starting the parser
<whitequark> ruby's syntax is justified in like half of the places
<micahjohnston> …yeah I know, I'm saying that people should design language syntaxes better
<whitequark> but the other half is utterly meaningless
<whitequark> yea
<micahjohnston> C++'s syntax is the biggest clusterfuck known to man
<vil> heh
<micahjohnston> like, look at Go
<micahjohnston> just because of the syntax, compiling is like a billion times faster
<micahjohnston> and code is easier to read
<alexgordon> the preprocessor is mostly to blame
<alexgordon> but yes the stupid declarations are to blame too
<whitequark> roughly 70% of time is spent in parsing in clang
<alexgordon> and templates
<whitequark> alexgordon: templates are awesome.
<whitequark> go is shit without them.
<whitequark> I think the only mainstream language which has a good type system is .NET IL
<whitequark> by extension, C#
<whitequark> and F# to some extent
<alexgordon> templates are awesome, but C++ templates are not
<whitequark> it has value types (bye Java), it has proper covariance/contravariance (bye C++)
<micahjohnston> yeah parametric polymorphism is awesome
<micahjohnston> templates are shit
<whitequark> lolwat
<purr> lol
<whitequark> how are you going to represent data polymorphism?
<micahjohnston> I mean I'm used to mile-long error messages meaning look for the line with <> on it
<micahjohnston> when coding in C++
<whitequark> micahjohnston: c++filt
<micahjohnston> but there are many better solutions
<alexgordon> micahjohnston: that's more a library design issue than anything
<alexgordon> whoever invented std::allocator deserves a slow and painful death
<alexgordon> I never fucking use it, yet I have to pay the cost of it all the time
<whitequark> whoever invented the entirety of C++ stdlib
<whitequark> I/O
<whitequark> date & time
<whitequark> strings
<whitequark> it's all barely usable
<whitequark> also locales. oh god
<whitequark> I mean it's like their primary design goal was to find the edge after which no one would ever use that crap, and then take a tiny step back from it
<alexgordon> anyway most of C++'s problems are caused by A) using stupid features or B) using stupid code. If you don't use stupid features or stupid code then it's a damn nice language. Still ridiculously verbose though
<whitequark> agreed. I don't think anything else would work for Qt or LLVM
<whitequark> but the reason for A) is pretty simple
<whitequark> it's called bs, for bjarne stroustrup, whose explicit design goal is to include every single case he, or his committee, could imagine
<micahjohnston> agreed
<whitequark> afaik templates were _accidentally_ made turing-complete.
<micahjohnston> also slow to compile
<whitequark> micahjohnston: use clang already
<micahjohnston> whitequark: I do
<whitequark> then turn off optimizations.
<whitequark> I'll explain. If afterwards it's fast enough, it's not C++ ;)
<whitequark> though I would totally believe if it'd still be slow.
<whitequark> why is yolk in these eggs pink?..
<alexgordon> I was looking at boost::optional the other day, it's *insane*
<whitequark> don't ask, don't tell.
<micahjohnston> still damn slow
<micahjohnston> on my relatively small project
* whitequark 's language with TONS of generic types and parametric polymorphism with a compiler in jruby is going to be extra slow
<alexgordon> whitequark: on the bright side it'll still be 100x faster than paws!
<whitequark> however... I'm not going to be as stupid as to not cache the intermediate results!
<whitequark> or do that compilation unit bullshit
<alexgordon> micahjohnston: compiling C++ code is fast, unless you use the standard library, then it isn't
<alexgordon> or boost, etc
<alexgordon> I'm assuming you're not insane enough to do the metaprogramming heroics that Real C++ Programmers do
<alexgordon> but the nice thing about C++ is that you can use the C stdlib!
<whitequark> NICE?!
* whitequark shots alexgordon
<alexgordon> well, mitigating :P
<alexgordon> ^ look at that. look at how many other headers in boost it needs to include to define fucking boost::optional
<alexgordon> boost is a wonderfully useful turd
<micahjohnston> whitequark: haskell is full of parametric polymorphism yet compiles relativel8y quickly
<whitequark> two words: Hindley-Milner
<whitequark> no SFINAE, for example
<alexgordon> micahjohnston: have you ever compiled ANY haskell?
<alexgordon> it does not compile quickly
<alexgordon> also the error messages are worse so when it does compile it takes a long time to figure out what the error is
<micahjohnston> are you kidding?
<micahjohnston> haskell's error messages are approximately 7000% better than C++'s
<micahjohnston> tells you exactly what's wrong - this was expected, this was gotten
<micahjohnston> and where it is, even includes the fucking surrounding code
<alexgordon> no it tells you there's two types and they don't match somehow
<alexgordon> and it gives you a line number, which is useless because there's gazillions of types on a single line
<whitequark> alexgordon: you will like Foundry's error reporting, which highlights specific tokens over the entire inference path.
<micahjohnston> it gives you a line number, and the specific term, and then the enclosing expression, and then the rest of the line
<micahjohnston> what compiler are *you* using?
<alexgordon> meh, all I can say is that I have a lot more problems with ghc's errors than clang's...
<alexgordon> I have been using C++ a lot longer, but that's ghc's problem
<micahjohnston> after having used clang and ghc on projects in the recent past
<micahjohnston> in ghc I instantly see where I did something wrong
<micahjohnston> like it couldn't be more clear, with the way it displays the rrors
<alexgordon> maybe you write different errors to me
<micahjohnston> whitequark: what were you saying about post-dubstep?
<alexgordon> but if you say pass an Int to a function that takes a String, clang will show it a lot more clearly than ghc
<whitequark> micahjohnston: I really don't know how to explain
<micahjohnston> whitequark: i see it as just a convenient catch-all label for things like sbtrkt, purity ring, and stuff
<whitequark> oooh.
<micahjohnston> stuff that draws on skream, burial, mala, etc., and earlier influences like uk garage
<whitequark> it was not about music
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<whitequark> dat is our office. but I don't even know how to translate the caption properly
<micahjohnston> hmmmm
<micahjohnston> is it a pun type of thing?
<whitequark> no, not a pun
<whitequark> it's a tangled mess of various idioms
<micahjohnston> all right
<micahjohnston> :p
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<micahjohnston> alas
<micahjohnston> whitequark: oh is SFINAE effectively for like pattern matching type of stuff, but in polymorphism?
<whitequark> it's a very crude and incomplete counterpart
<whitequark> but kinda
<whitequark> not really 'polymorphism'
<whitequark> more like 'C++'s idea of pattern matching'
<micahjohnston> seems like C++ templates are like the late-binding equivalent of Haskell/Agda/etc.
<whitequark> wat.
<micahjohnston> like, the binding doesn't happen at runtime
<micahjohnston> but
<micahjohnston> the template system itself checks very little and hands it off to the regular C++ compiler
<micahjohnston> and then errors are found
<micahjohnston> so it's like
<micahjohnston> static typing checks whether arguments support certain operations at compile time
<micahjohnston> dynamic typing errors at runtime if they don't
<whitequark> wat.
<whitequark> "regular C++ compiler"?
<whitequark> "template system"?
<whitequark> they're inseparable
<whitequark> and C++ doesn't have any implicit typing checks
<micahjohnston> Haskell/ML/Agda stuff checks at polymorphism/templates/whatever time whether a certain *type* works as an argument to a polymorphic thing and errors first
<whitequark> SFINAE is compile-time.
<micahjohnston> whereas in C++ the errors don't happen until after template substitution
<micahjohnston> that's exactly what I said
<micahjohnston> it's compile-time
<micahjohnston> but like
<micahjohnston> concepts would be moving more towards an agda/haskell/ml type system
<whitequark> no, you are mistaken.
<micahjohnston> making the mini-programming language that templates are into a more statically-typed one
<micahjohnston> ok explain
<whitequark> is there anything to explain? SFINAE simply has nothing to do with late-binding, and template system is an integral part of the C++ compiler.
<whitequark> SFINAE is similar to overloaded functions
<whitequark> like, distinguishing between foo(int) and foo(char) but for templates
<micahjohnston> it was an analogy
<micahjohnston> I don't think that SFINAE has anything to do with *actual* late-binding, like at runtime
<micahjohnston> I thought I was careful to specify that
<whitequark> well, if SFINAE is analogous, then function overloading is, too
<micahjohnston> I'm just saying that the operational terms in which SFINAE is described - suppressing an error because things might work out in the end - is analogous to dynamic typing
* whitequark gives up
<micahjohnston> …
<micahjohnston> think about TMP as a programming language
<micahjohnston> it's turing complete
<micahjohnston> it operates on C++ types or whatever
<micahjohnston> a TMP program is run and produces a C++ program
<micahjohnston> and then that is handed to the compiler
<micahjohnston> this is just a conceptual model
<micahjohnston> so while c++ is not late-binding at all
<micahjohnston> tmp is late-binding
<whitequark> no, I don't think so
<whitequark> it is eager-binding but it can try more than one variant
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<micahjohnston> ok maybe that analogy doesn't really apply to sfinae
<micahjohnston> and I guess tmp and c++ are less divided stages in the compiler than they are in my head
<micahjohnston> but I had the impression that concepts would make tmp more early-binding
<micahjohnston> and catch errors at the template level rather than the type leve on expanded templates
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<devyn> okay I can see why sephr likes bitcoin mining… it's not that you make all that much money
<devyn> it's just really fun
<devyn> exciting
<devyn> like gambling
<devyn> lol
<purr> lol
<sephr> devyn: um its not anything like gambling
<sephr> selling bitcoins is similar to selling currency which is similar to gambling
<sephr> mining bitcoins is similar to running a program and exchanging electricity for heat
<devyn> lol
<devyn> not if you pay pools
<devyn> play*
<devyn> I've actually made like $5
<sephr> well not really since you know how much you'll make given the current difficulty
<sephr> and your computing resources
<devyn> only on average, over a long period, and the pool luck can be significantly better
<devyn> if you do PPS then yeah, you do
<sephr> anyways i dont mine bitcoins
<devyn> but not with Prop or DGM
<sephr> i did it for a day just to try it out
<devyn> well, yeah, I'm just doing it this weekend
<devyn> it's kind of fun
<devyn> lol
<devyn> I'm not at home so I can't use the computer anyway
<devyn> so why not
<devyn> lol I must be getting pretty lucky with the shares, because the pool's saying I'm getting ~742 Mh/s when it's more like 600
<purr> lol
<devyn> sephr: did you ever try PoT (Pay on Target)? I did it for a little while, but I ran a loss :/ kind of more exciting though, because they pay based on the returned difficulty of the share
<devyn> so if you get really lucky and get shares that are difficulty 1000+ when you asked for diff 1,
<devyn> you get a lot more
<devyn> but they're rare lol
<devyn> *sigh* I'm gonna go for a swim
<sephr> i would get into bitcoin if i could do it efficiently on my gpus but alas i can't
<sephr> and i dont want to buy asics
<devyn> oh yeah, you have NVidia GPUs
<devyn> I just have the one Radeon HD 7950
<devyn> and it's been pretty efficient
<sephr> as for electricity usage i already use over 100mWh/yr lol
<purr> lol
<sephr> power company would get pissed if i doubled usage
<sephr> well actually more profit for them so no
<sephr> oh
<sephr> s/100/700/ if i confirm it later
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<purrr> [System] elliottcable pushed 1 new commit to Master: https://github.com/elliottcable/System/commit/a444a010421ad61f3ee2d286e17593306a16b121
<purrr> System/Master a444a01 elliottcable: (new config) Configuring vim's 'undofile' support.
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<vil> micahjohnston: holy crap that one synth in Wildfire
<vil> micahjohnston: eargasm
<vil> ok this is pretty much my favorite thing ever
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