<alexgordon>
micahjohnston: wanna hear about my memorization algorithm?
<alexgordon>
you're the only person I haven't bored with the details yet!
<micahjohnston>
yeah
<alexgordon>
was explaining it to elliott yesterday, I've taken supermemo's algorithm but made it more computationally expensive
<alexgordon>
micahjohnston: ok one line summary: ask the user questions, demand that they revise them after a certain amount of time, record the time interval and whether they got the answer correct or not, collect ALL of this data, then do a regression on the factors between each interval for each repetition ordinal and difficulty, for each item: adjust each piece of data so that it matches the item we're testing (quantized and
<alexgordon>
memoized so it runs in linear time), compute the factor such that 90% of the questions would be answered correctly
<alexgordon>
micahjohnston: yeah but mine has all algorithms and shit
<micahjohnston>
elliottcable: not found
<micahjohnston>
alexgordon: :p
<alexgordon>
micahjohnston: but seriously, this is cool, I've built a python script that simulates human memory, then I'm trying out my algorithm on it
<micahjohnston>
heh cool
<micahjohnston>
that is pretty cool
<micahjohnston>
so apparently I gained 10 pounds over the winter
<alexgordon>
someone convert that into units I understand
<alexgordon>
FINE
<elliottcable>
!convert 10lbs kg
<alexgordon>
4.53 kilos
<elliottcable>
one can hope.
<alexgordon>
micahjohnston: so... going to be doing lots of running?
<alexgordon>
has winter ended yet? It's still snowing here
<alexgordon>
well not *here* but a hundred miles north :P
<micahjohnston>
yeah it's pretty much spring
<micahjohnston>
it snowed in the morning for the past two days but was melted by afternoon
<alexgordon>
it doesn't actually snow in london
<alexgordon>
ever.
<alexgordon>
except for 1-2 days a year
<micahjohnston>
hah
<elliottcable>
I'm down in NC right now, and miss the snow already
<elliottcable>
Feed me, on *real* subs.
<elliottcable>
Delicious.
<micahjohnston>
fatty boom boom music video is the best thing
<micahjohnston>
amon tobin is the best thing
<alexgordon>
oddly the new algorithm is too conservative, tends towards showing stuff too often
<alexgordon>
run it for 3.7 years, hasn't forgotten anything for over 3 years
<alexgordon>
seems to be stable though
<alexgordon>
just poor handling of high repetitions
<alexgordon>
omg just realized
<alexgordon>
d = d0 * 2.2 -- In my test script
<alexgordon>
327.000000 * 2.220352 -- in the debug output
<elliottcable>
I'm thinking of comitting git's undo-history files into the repository with my code.
<elliottcable>
Am I a horrible person?
<elliottcable>
wondering if there's a better way to acheive the same thing ...
<Nuck>
git's undo-history?
<gkatsev>
elliottcable: you mean committing git's index into git?
<Nuck>
gkatsev: I was thinking maybe he meant vim's undo history?
<Nuck>
But does vim have the ability to write those to files?
<gkatsev>
yes
<Nuck>
Oooh I want that
<Nuck>
I wonder if there's some way to do it using Resource Forks lol
<purr>
lol
<Nuck>
Also is it even possible to commit git index files into git?
<elliottcable>
vim doesn't preserve resource-forks. hm.
<elliottcable>
that'd make a cool script.
<elliottcable>
have vim write its undo-file to an adjacent filename (foo.c~undo),
<gkatsev>
I'm pretty sure you can do that already
<elliottcable>
and then have a post-write hook in vim to call a command-line script to copy that data into a resource-fork and delete the file.
<elliottcable>
Then have a pre-load hook to unload the data from the fork into a file, then vim can load it in, then a post-load hook to delete the file
<elliottcable>
problem is, vim doesn't preserve resource-forks, so the undo history would be lost every time it saves.
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<elliottcable>
yes, I meant vim
<elliottcable>
didn't realize I'd typed git
<gkatsev>
lol
<purr>
lol
<gkatsev>
also, vim does have all the forks of your history saved as you edit. That's one of the things that Gundo can show you.
<elliottcable>
yes, I know
<elliottcable>
I'm a huge fan, and use it constantly
<gkatsev>
is that data not enough? You can have vim store it for you
<elliottcable>
Yes, I'm very aware.
<elliottcable>
The point we're talking about is storing that data *into a resource fork*, instead of into a file.
<elliottcable>
So that that data is checked into source-control programs like git, and passed around such that anybody who edits the file, has the undo history.
<elliottcable>
I already follow a pattern I call “granular committing,” so that everybody's got access to my mind-process while I write code and fix buugs
<gkatsev>
you could always just have vim save it in a file and tell people to also have vim read from that file
<elliottcable>
the point of this is to take it a step *beyond* that, and give everybody my *full undo history*, so they can literally hold down command-Z and watch the code unfold exactly as I wrote it.
<elliottcable>
yes yes yes yes I know
<elliottcable>
but then you have to commit those files into the project ... show changes to those files in every single git commit's diff ... you get the idea.
<elliottcable>
that's ugly. horrible.
<elliottcable>
resource-forks and similar are an excellent way around that.
<elliottcable>
turns out git doesn't retain them anyway. fack.
<gkatsev>
elliottcable: yeah, I think you'll need to add the file with every commit
<devyn>
so I'm joining a bitcoin mining pool. why? why not?
<devyn>
getting about 500 Mh/s with my 7950
<devyn>
not bad :D
<devyn>
and I've already made like 7 cents!
<devyn>
:p
<micahjohnston>
elliottcable: loving luna
<micahjohnston>
elliottcable: luma*
<devyn>
16 cents now!
<devyn>
xD
<micahjohnston>
haha
<devyn>
so, I guess I can make like $16 with this per day
<devyn>
hahahaha
<micahjohnston>
not bad lol
<purr>
lol
<micahjohnston>
how do you do it
<devyn>
micahjohnston: bitcoin mining, in a pool (basically distributed computing for bitcoin mining)
<devyn>
with a single Radeon HD 7950
<devyn>
looking at the electricity rates, it definitely comes out ahead
<micahjohnston>
aight :p
<devyn>
yeah, it should cost about 50 cents in electricity to run this for 48 hours, which means I probably make about $15.50 +/- 50 cents
<devyn>
oops, 24 hours
<devyn>
why'd I say 48
<devyn>
lol
<purr>
lol
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<devyn>
whoa, I just solved a 267-difficulty share
<devyn>
most are about 1 or 2
<devyn>
lol
<purr>
lol
<Navarr>
meow.
<devyn>
ニャー
<Navarr>
ニャア～
<devyn>
whoa, don't get so aroused
<Navarr>
owo
<Navarr>
So, I did another crazy thing. Socket Server in PHP :3
<devyn>
micahjohnston: the Bitcoin economy is getting to the point where a single block (which happens on average around every 15 minutes) can contain like $600k or $700k worth of transactions
<devyn>
it's ridiculous
<micahjohnston>
wow
<devyn>
to have a system where new wealth can only be created by improving computational power is pretty neat
<devyn>
imo
<devyn>
but it would be cooler if they could do that, and actually find a way to use the computational power for something useful
<devyn>
rather than just solving cryptographic problems
<devyn>
lol
<purr>
lol
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<whitequark>
devyn: afaik right now, mining is unprofitable
<elliottcable>
I heard that mining was very slow and unprofitable.
<devyn>
GPU miners are now
<whitequark>
elliottcable: on commodity hardware, yes.
<devyn>
but these new ASIC miners are top of the line
<whitequark>
fun fact
<devyn>
and do WAY more
<elliottcable>
that tells me nothing about the output of that machine, or how “gigahashes” converts into elliottcable-having-lots-of-money.
<whitequark>
when ASIC miners become widespread, mining on them will become just as nonprofitable
<whitequark>
that's the way bitcoin works
<devyn>
oh of course
<devyn>
it diminishes
<elliottcable>
I may be a tech-noob, but there's a *reason* I have a lot of money. I know money. I'm good with it. I like having a lot of it.
<whitequark>
and that's why it is awesome :D
<elliottcable>
so, lemme get this right
<elliottcable>
if I'm reading your claims correctly, this works as:
<elliottcable>
“Buy into this now, because it'll be extremely profitable now, but not very much so in a couple months”
<whitequark>
elliottcable: bitcoin is kinda like gambling. you can predict the result way better and it's not rigged against you but it's still a game.
<devyn>
elliottcable: basically, each block'll get you 25 BTC which at current market value is $1,475 USD
<whitequark>
elliottcable: EXACTLY.
<devyn>
elliottcable: and I'm sure you could get more than that with a 1.5 TH/s rig, at least at first
<devyn>
per day
<elliottcable>
how long does it take to get a block? how does “gigahashes” convert into blocks?
<whitequark>
there's a fixed number of blocks per, for example, day
<devyn>
it's not determinable
<elliottcable>
wait.
<devyn>
but yes you basically just have to be the first one to get them
<whitequark>
and if you have an x% of the network power, you have x% of probability of receiving each block
<elliottcable>
I thought blocks were cryptographically determined from these hashes.
<elliottcable>
how can the number be fixed?
<whitequark>
elliottcable: the network adjusts itself
<elliottcable>
so the most powerful processor always gets them first?
<elliottcable>
the point is to be the most powerful processor on the network?
<devyn>
or most powerful group of processors,
<elliottcable>
why the hell would anybody buy a *commodity* box, then? or for that matter, bother selling one?
<devyn>
like a pool :p
<whitequark>
elliottcable: commodity? back in the day it was profitable
<devyn>
because it's actually entirely random
<whitequark>
when everyone had commodity boxes.
<elliottcable>
the one you linked, I mean
<devyn>
elliottcable: you could get it way before the guy who's 1000x more powerful just by fluke
<devyn>
elliottcable: because you happen to find the solution sooner
<whitequark>
selling one? because you sell with a huge margin, and there's lots of people who cannot turn this hw into a profit
<devyn>
and that happens a lot
<elliottcable>
so, I should buy five of these and get rich.
<whitequark>
producing ASICs is hell of a lot easier than figuring out how to turn bitcoins to money :p
<elliottcable>
doesn't sound like they take that much power. mmm.
<whitequark>
especially with all the fluctuations
<elliottcable>
if I understand BTC correctly, I don't need a lot of network-transfer to run one, yes?
<elliottcable>
it's all computation, not transmission?
<devyn>
just sell them on mtgox and deprecate the bitcoin :p
<whitequark>
elliottcable: computation.
<whitequark>
you can do on gprs.
<devyn>
depreciate?**
<elliottcable>
“deprecate the bitcoin?”
<devyn>
elliottcable: if you're computing by yourself, you don't need much network transfer. a pool requires a lot more though
<elliottcable>
oh
<elliottcable>
depreciate
<elliottcable>
so, basically, I should generate a bunch of these, then flood the market
<devyn>
:p
<whitequark>
elliottcable: yeah you can well crash the market
<whitequark>
happened before
<elliottcable>
Is it worthless to buy one of the tiny ones to play with the idea? What are the chances/time-estimated-required to “get” a block (that's 25BTC, right?) with, say, the 4GH/s miner?
<devyn>
25 BTC is exactly $1,400 USD rigt now
<elliottcable>
how fluid is the market?
<elliottcable>
link me that stats page, again
<devyn>
elliottcable: the 4.5 GH/s miner probably won't get you anything on your own, but if you go with the 30 GH/s you could probably get something for a little while
<whitequark>
elliottcable: blockchain.info/stats
<whitequark>
elliottcable: also. those asic miners are in pre-order
<devyn>
elliottcable: if you want to join a pool with one of the smaller machines, then you could potentially get quite a bit
<whitequark>
that means they do not have the asics, yet.
<whitequark>
everything could happen before you get one
<whitequark>
I would consider that as a risky investment :p
<devyn>
elliottcable: joining a pool makes it more predictable and less risky, but also means you'll get less if you already have a good chance of finding blocks on your own
<devyn>
whitequark: this is true, so I'd just wait a little while first elliottcable :p
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<elliottcable>
“if you go with the 30 GH/s you could probably get something for a little while”
<elliottcable>
“for a little while”, because the ASICs are flooding the market, yes?
<devyn>
well they will
<devyn>
not yet
<elliottcable>
I should run a pool with you guys. We've a few hardware nuts in here, probably have a lot of GPU power amongst us.
<elliottcable>
ohhh, pre-order
<devyn>
GPU power is next-to-worthless compared to ASIC power now
<elliottcable>
didn't notice.
<devyn>
for this
* whitequark
doesnt have a gpu
<whitequark>
nor much hardware, for that matter. all I own fits in a single briefcase
<elliottcable>
so, basically, it's a “get a chunk of whatever market value is going to flood towards the ASIC miners, before they depreciate the product they're generating, along with everybody else doing the same thing for the few days after they're released”
<devyn>
elliottcable: my GPU can do 600 Mh/s, and they've got 30 Mh/s ASICs on preorder there for cheap :p
<whitequark>
elliottcable: exactly
<elliottcable>
cheap?
<devyn>
elliottcable: yeah, exactly, and then the value goes back up because bitcoins naturally become more scarce
<elliottcable>
the 30MH/s is fucking 600 bucks
<devyn>
oops
<devyn>
30 Gh/s
<elliottcable>
versus a <600$ GPU that can do 600MH/s?
<devyn>
I meant
<elliottcable>
or am I missing something?
<elliottcable>
oh lol
<purr>
lol
<elliottcable>
was going to say ...
<devyn>
3000 Mh/s :p
<devyn>
30000 Mh/s*
<whitequark>
elliottcable: mining was NEVER supposed to be profitable in bitcoin
<devyn>
gah
<devyn>
I'm tired
<whitequark>
it's an infrastructure management tool
<whitequark>
not money printing
<devyn>
whitequark: well, eventually it won't be, but for now it is :p
<whitequark>
so this works exactly as it should and it's fucking awesome
<whitequark>
devyn: marginally, yes
<devyn>
with ASICs? absolutely will be for a while
<whitequark>
... like, two months
<whitequark>
well depends on the capacity of asic vendors
<devyn>
but eventually the value for a single block will decrease to the point where it's not worth it, and those blocks will be impossible to find anyway
<whitequark>
I bet they don't have much
<elliottcable>
explain better
<whitequark>
elliottcable: who?
<elliottcable>
you
<elliottcable>
why BTC rocks.
<devyn>
elliottcable: every X number of blocks, the number of BTC for a block halves, and also the blocks' problems become harder
<elliottcable>
The only person I've heard evangelizing it is sephr; and I tend to discount anything I hear him say
<elliottcable>
devyn ⑊ that's specifically designed to prevent situations like this, innit? but what about when hardware for mining plateaus? won't that doubling-X-blocks break the system, mean there's no inflow?
<elliottcable>
and what happens when mining is straight-up unprofitable? why will anyone do it? how will the flow be maintained?
<devyn>
yeah, pretty much, which means that transactions will become smaller and smaller and things will cost less
<elliottcable>
noob questions, I'm sure.
<whitequark>
elliottcable: ah. simple. it is a system which exploits natural desire of people to become rich, and simultaneously algorithmically prevents them from becoming so in an unjustified way. so the basic idea is that you need a lot of people to manage the network, but you have to attract them somehow
<whitequark>
and mining is for that
<devyn>
haha
<elliottcable>
es,
<elliottcable>
I get that.
<whitequark>
re block division
<elliottcable>
but how does that *not* break down when the system is demonstrably unprofitable?
<whitequark>
very simple
<elliottcable>
i.e. “demonstarbly will not make you become rich?”
<devyn>
because things will cost less, and so BTC will be worth more still
<whitequark>
if people see that they lose money and migrate away from the network, the rest gets more bitcoins
<whitequark>
so the profit margin for mining naturally stays around zero
<elliottcable>
that's fallacy
<devyn>
yeah, whitequark's wrong here.
<elliottcable>
depending on market fluency to counter the decreased motivation
<whitequark>
devyn: correct me
<whitequark>
maybe
<elliottcable>
basically, you're both saying “mining is designed to be unprofitable” and “mining will still continue to be profitable”
<elliottcable>
see what I mean?
<elliottcable>
ಠ_ಠ
<elliottcable>
does anybody involved in bitcoins have even the most rudimentary grasp of macroeconomic theory?
<elliottcable>
brb getting rich other ways
<elliottcable>
not gonna lie, still want to dump on that miner.
<devyn>
elliottcable: no, read up on it from people who aren't us :p
<whitequark>
elliottcable: anybody? yeah
<elliottcable>
mostly because it looks cool, and I can't wait to explain it to somebody when they ask why it's sitting in my living room.
<whitequark>
what devyn says :p
<elliottcable>
“What's that?” “Oh, it's a box that makes me money.”
<devyn>
hehe
<elliottcable>
“What? How?” “It literally *makes* money. All the time. It's making some right now.”
<elliottcable>
“It made me $1,440 last night.”
<elliottcable>
Yeah, I just don't see that paying itself back, though. The market is too volatile.
<elliottcable>
I can easily see dropping 30-grand on one, and having the market re-adjust itself before I can make 30-grand back.
<elliottcable>
The only ways to go seem to be either A) buying *several*, and really capitalizing on the initially inflated value to pay back the entire fuckload of money I just spent,
<whitequark>
it is certainly profitable for the asic vendor and rig designer :p
<elliottcable>
or B) buying something cheaper, that's more guaranteed to pay itself off in that initial acute-deflationary period
<elliottcable>
whitequark ⑊ go build me one? you said ASICs were cheaper. I'll finance you building us one.
<elliottcable>
As the backer, I take 90%, you take 10%, of what we produce.
<whitequark>
elliottcable: in different circumstances I'd probably agree
<whitequark>
but no time now.
<elliottcable>
85%/15% if you can design, implement, and build this before the commercial ones ship.
* elliottcable
grins
<elliottcable>
was worth a try. ;)
<devyn>
:p
<whitequark>
... mostly because a chance to build asics for someone else's money is not worth skipping :D
<devyn>
elliottcable: well, this pool I'm in is getting 5000 Gh/s right now, and that gets it blocks pretty frequently.
<devyn>
probably once every hour or so
<devyn>
at least
<whitequark>
elliottcable: also did that mean that if you *lose* money, I owe you? :DD
<devyn>
sometimes twice or three times
<elliottcable>
of course not, that's how an investment works
<elliottcable>
I'm buying the hardware with cash, and your effort with incentivizing stock.
<whitequark>
elliottcable: that was a joke.
<elliottcable>
I'm not *loaning* you hardware.
<elliottcable>
devyn ⑊ got a ratio of “terahash-to-block”?
* whitequark
is going back to hacking on ruby_parser
<elliottcable>
wait, the entire pool is only 5 TH/s
<devyn>
elliottcable: no, it's the predicted reward for this round for what I've contributed so far… I've only been running it for about 3 hours
<devyn>
or 4?
<devyn>
anyway, I joined the round late
<devyn>
so, probably less
<elliottcable>
hm.
<devyn>
we'll see, I'll let it run over the weekend and see if I actually get some sort of return
<elliottcable>
hmmmm.
<devyn>
just using a GPU though, so nothing fancy
<whitequark>
devyn: there's a *ton* of BTC gambling sites
<elliottcable>
this is all very cool
<whitequark>
like half of all transactions (by count, not volume) are from them
<elliottcable>
meh, fuck it, I'm buying one
<elliottcable>
“What's your trade in policy? In recognition of the burden such an increase in hashing power puts on owners of our equipment, we've instituted a policy designed to preserve the value of your investment through this technology change. Our objective is to make sure you can recover your investment whether you wish to continue mining or not. To achieve this goal, we will accept earlier generation units in trade at full purchase price towards the ...
<elliottcable>
... purchase of their new ASIC based counterparts.”
<elliottcable>
Well, that's pretty cool of them
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<elliottcable>
“… or ridiculously wealthy and bored individuals who have a vendetta against bitcoin.”
<elliottcable>
Okay. Be right back, killing Bitcoin. #partypooper
<elliottcable>
Oh my god. I'm the perfect person to kill Bitcoin.
* elliottcable
laughs maniacally
<whitequark>
hehehe
<elliottcable>
So, basically, I'd need ~20 of those 30-grand boxes to destroy bitcoin forever.
<elliottcable>
or at least, until somebody else out-processing-power'd me.
<whitequark>
why do you assume you could destroy it?
<whitequark>
you want to gain >50% of the network power and do something nefarious? :D
<elliottcable>
Yes, absolutely.
<elliottcable>
Basically: you short a shitton,
<elliottcable>
people freak, because the price-drop will make them think you're going to gain more control of the market;
<elliottcable>
(it's rational to do so)
<whitequark>
you do understand that if you have more than 50% power, you are not bound by the rules of the network?
<elliottcable>
I profit all the way down.
<whitequark>
you can do ANYTHING.
<elliottcable>
nonono you don't understand
<elliottcable>
I don't have to get 50%
<whitequark>
that too, yes
<elliottcable>
I just have to get a *lot*, and then sell short
* elliottcable
tries to re-explain
* whitequark
shrugs
<purr>
¯\(º_o)/¯
<whitequark>
yeah, I guess it crashes
<elliottcable>
let's say I have 20% of the market
<whitequark>
would be not the first bitcoin crash
<elliottcable>
not that much
<elliottcable>
it's a psychological thing
<elliottcable>
nononono
<elliottcable>
not just make it crash
<elliottcable>
1. get 20%
<elliottcable>
2. make the market crash by ~40%, bringing my 20% holdings over the 50% mark
<elliottcable>
3. *now* I can do whatever I want. ;)
<whitequark>
kewl
* elliottcable
laughs
<elliottcable>
sorry if I'm boring you.
<elliottcable>
Just idle speculation.
<elliottcable>
Hi, whitequark. What's your name?
* whitequark
tilts his head
<whitequark>
Peter ?
* whitequark
didn't get that
<elliottcable>
I'm not clear on something,
<elliottcable>
...
<elliottcable>
I love programmers
<elliottcable>
patch is so cool. that it exists. a piece of software, to turn bits of text, into instructions for changing other bits of text, where you are.
<elliottcable>
bitcoin is cool.
<elliottcable>
bitcoin is basically a currency dependant on the existence and irrationality of basement-dwellers
<elliottcable>
which is *far* more reliable than any government.
<elliottcable>
what an excellent idea.
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<whitequark>
elliottcable: !.
<elliottcable>
?
<whitequark>
15:20 <+elliottcable> bitcoin is basically a currency dependant on the existence and irrationality of basement-dwellers
<whitequark>
15:20 <+elliottcable> which is *far* more reliable than any government.
<whitequark>
15:20 <+elliottcable> what an excellent idea.
<whitequark>
I have nothing to add.
<elliottcable>
oh, lol
<purr>
lol
<elliottcable>
glad you agree
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<elliottcable>
ffuufckakwrauitiuawr
<elliottcable>
I've literally spent the last *hour* trying to find a place I could buy bitcoins with a debit card.
<elliottcable>
WHY IS THIS SO FUCKING HARD.
<whitequark>
elliottcable: very simple
<whitequark>
because with a credit card you can rollback a transaction easily
<whitequark>
and the seller will be additionally fined
<whitequark>
you can trivially buy bitcoins with anything which can't rollback
<whitequark>
webmoney, etc
<elliottcable>
confused
<elliottcable>
if it can take a bank transfer, why can't it take a debit transaction from that same bank? ಠ_ಠ
<whitequark>
elliottcable: I guess there isn't a simple way to restrict transactions to debit only if you accept VISAs?
<whitequark>
I think.
<whitequark>
Not sure.
<elliottcable>
ugh. pain in my fucking arse.
<elliottcable>
I have to pull out goddamned cash? ATMs are limited to 600$/day!
<elliottcable>
not to mention ATM fees; and the gas wasted driving back and forth to WALMART or whatever for this damn cash system
<elliottcable>
fuck cash in the ass.
* elliottcable
bitches
<whitequark>
just use bitcoin!
<elliottcable>
I DON'T HAVE ANY YET ಠ_ಠ
<telemachus>
elliottcable: Sounds like you had an exciting night. Either that or a 12 year old stole your phone and is tweeting from your account.
* elliottcable
laughs
<elliottcable>
I'll keep that to myself
<elliottcable>
so, cool, I've a GPG key now, and a bitcoin address, and a bunch of other shit I didn't really need.
<elliottcable>
any of you have any bitcoins? could I trouble you for, like, 0.01BTC to play with?
<elliottcable>
also, you should authenticate with the BTC-OTC WoT and rate me as “fucking awesome”
<elliottcable>
that's right, the `rate` command actually can (undocumentedly) take a *string* instead of an integer between -10..10
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<elliottcable>
as long as that string is exactly either “fucking awesome” or “complete fucktard”
<elliottcable>
;;rate sephr 'complete fucktard' It’s true, he is.
<elliottcable>
;)
<sephr>
context
<elliottcable>
nope
<elliottcable>
no context for you
* elliottcable
slaps lightly
<elliottcable>
now go to your room
<sephr>
me goes to your public context archives
sephr was kicked from #elliottcable by elliottcable [/join #sephr]
sephr has joined #elliottcable
<sephr>
/me*
sephr has left #elliottcable [#elliottcable]
* elliottcable
laughs uproariously
<elliottcable>
re-joined just to self-correct. classy as fuck.
<alexgordon>
then decipher apple's private undo format
<alexgordon>
elliottcable: biggest problem though, is that git doesn't store xattrs I don't think
<alexgordon>
so there's that...
<elliottcable>
yes, aware
<elliottcable>
was talking about that in aforementioned logs
<alexgordon>
ok ok
<elliottcable>
but that should still totally be what you do
<alexgordon>
-clouds
<purr>
alexgordon: is stuck up in the clouds; hilight 'em if you want 'em.
<elliottcable>
because fucking best feature eeeeeeever
<alexgordon>
:D
<elliottcable>
then we can go yell at git.
<elliottcable>
or patch it.
<elliottcable>
wtfever.
<alexgordon>
omg these logs are *live*
<alexgordon>
And with _bold_!
<alexgordon>
damn
<elliottcable>
lol yes.
<purr>
lol
<elliottcable>
thank whitequark
<alexgordon>
drudge could steal some tricks from this
<elliottcable>
he's got logging of some sort?
<alexgordon>
I mean the clicking of people's name and making everything else grey
<alexgordon>
if you did that for a conversation
<alexgordon>
actually building the log viewer into the irc client would be kind of cool
<alexgordon>
have an iCal-like date picker
<elliottcable>
yeah
<alexgordon>
drudge should totally hire me
<alexgordon>
:P
<elliottcable>
lolno
<purr>
lol
<alexgordon>
09:03 <elliottcable> “What's that?” “Oh, it's a box that makes me money.”
<alexgordon>
09:03 <elliottcable> “What? How?” “It literally *makes* money. All the time. It's making some right now.”
<alexgordon>
09:03 <elliottcable> “It made me $1,440 last night.”
<alexgordon>
bahaha
<alexgordon>
can't lie, I kind of want to buy one of these things
<elliottcable>
right?
<elliottcable>
hey, alexgordon, let's pool! :D
<elliottcable>
which one? 700$ or 1300$?
<alexgordon>
how much are these things
<alexgordon>
oh
<alexgordon>
heh
<alexgordon>
problem is, by the time it shipped to the UK it would have lost some value
<alexgordon>
where are they based?
<alexgordon>
so the entire network is 54T
<alexgordon>
and how many bitcoins a day does mining churn out?
<elliottcable>
when these things ship, though, that's going to skyrocket
<alexgordon>
what's the BTC/T right now?
<alexgordon>
yeah
<alexgordon>
wonder if you can overclock them...
<alexgordon>
do they even have clocks?
<elliottcable>
what?
<elliottcable>
no, they're custom silicon specifically to generate SHA256s, or whatever
<alexgordon>
elliottcable: does custom silicon not have clocks?
<micahjohnston>
hi
<purr>
micahjohnston: hi!
<alexgordon>
micahjohnston: talking about big boxes of processing porn
<alexgordon>
elliottcable: IMO the real money's in trading: the misanthrope in me says that there's lots of dumb people buying bitcoins, and relatively few legitimate trading outfits involved
<micahjohnston>
:p
<alexgordon>
mmm second order factors
<micahjohnston>
what's that
<micahjohnston>
btw I'm doing a bunch of linear regression for this lab report :p
<micahjohnston>
I removed an outlier and got a much higher coefficient of determination
* micahjohnston
pumps fists
<alexgordon>
micahjohnston :D
<alexgordon>
only 1 variable? lightweight :D
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<alexgordon>
so I'm now representing the intervals between repetitions as
<alexgordon>
where I_n is the nth interval, F is the first interval, r is the first factor and a, b and c are the adjustments
<micahjohnston>
alexgordon: haha yeah it's high school physics
<micahjohnston>
it's like the most advanced high school physics gets but it's still high school physics :P
<micahjohnston>
science and statistics are fucking hardcore
<micahjohnston>
oh also we just did taylor series things in math
<micahjohnston>
so that reminds me of that :p
<alexgordon>
micahjohnston: mmm
<alexgordon>
though this is a product
<alexgordon>
multiplying not adding the terms
<alexgordon>
it makes more sense if you write it as
<alexgordon>
I_n = F * r * (r*a) * (r*a*b) * (r*a*b*c)
<alexgordon>
the aim is to change the factors more slowly, so that you don't confuse your brain too much :P
<alexgordon>
otherwise there's a risk of feedback
<micahjohnston>
do you write products with a big pi instead of segma?
<micahjohnston>
sigma*
<micahjohnston>
feedback?
<FireFly>
Yes
<FireFly>
or */ if you feel APL-y
<alexgordon>
alt-shift p on a mac keyboard
<alexgordon>
∏
<FireFly>
Π Σ
<FireFly>
Ah, I see, yours was the "n-ary product" character..
<micahjohnston>
*/ :D
<micahjohnston>
*/1+i.
<micahjohnston>
∏
<FireFly>
is that some J I perceive?
<micahjohnston>
indeed
<alexgordon>
micahjohnston: so you get the idea of spaced repetition right? repeating memories at exponentially spaced intervals to maximise the rate of memory acquisition
<micahjohnston>
yeah
<vil>
hi guys
<alexgordon>
hi evans
* alexgordon
builds a mini mathematics/statistics library in C++ to help with this
<alexgordon>
C++11 is probably less verbose than java, though I couldn't have said that before
<alexgordon>
for (std::map<int, int>::iterator it = m.begin(), et = m.end; it != et; ++it) {
<alexgordon>
lol
<purr>
lol
<alexgordon>
* m.end()
<FireFly>
God, that actually *does* look worse than Java
<FireFly>
An impressive feat
<alexgordon>
yeah now we have for (const auto& p : m) {
<FireFly>
In Java you get stuff like BufferedReader br = new BufferedReader(new InputStreamReader("foo.txt")); String s; while ((s = br.readLine()) != null) { ... } though
<elliottcable>
hi
<purr>
elliottcable: hi!
<FireFly>
(or maybe I did things wrong back when I did java)
<alexgordon>
yeah the exceptions are insane
<FireFly>
Oh, those too, yeah
<alexgordon>
I just turn exceptions off in C++
<FireFly>
all the decorator types are rather insane too (BufferedReader, FileReader, InputStreamReader, etc etc)
<FireFly>
Oh, and nounify all the things
<alexgordon>
yeah, fuck classes
<alexgordon>
structs FTW!
<alexgordon>
can you tell I'm a C programmer?
<alexgordon>
:P
<FireFly>
^_^
<alexgordon>
I started to make a list of all the C++ features I don't use, found it easier to make a list of features I *do* use
<elliottcable>
I've never quite grokked endianness.
<elliottcable>
if I get it now, then,
<elliottcable>
decimal notation as we use it in English, is big-endian, yes?
<alexgordon>
elliottcable: on some processors numbers are written 4321, on other ones they're written 1234
<elliottcable>
millions are first, singles last?
<alexgordon>
where those are bytes
<elliottcable>
yes, I get that, but the problem for me is remembering which is which and what it means when looking at some data
<alexgordon>
oh well I think big endian is the human one iirc?
<alexgordon>
1234
<elliottcable>
yeah, what I'm saying
<alexgordon>
meh I can't remember, but you don't really ever need to know
<elliottcable>
most-signifigant bit, in 1,000,000, is the 1 ... right?
<alexgordon>
right
<elliottcable>
Cray still makes computers? Really?
<FireFly>
depends on if that is in big-endian or little-endian :D
<FireFly>
er, unless you meant 1,000,000 in decimal
<FireFly>
in which case it's big-endian, so yes
<FireFly>
Basically big-endian means you start with the biggest digit, and MSB refers to the biggest digit (or bit, or byte)
<elliottcable>
so,
<elliottcable>
-sol
<purr>
elliottcable: 15 787 ſ 919 737
<elliottcable>
is big-endian;
<FireFly>
in big-endian the MSB is first, nad in little-endian the LSB is first
<FireFly>
Yes
<elliottcable>
described little-endianly, it would be 737 919 ſ 787 51
<FireFly>
and HH:MM:SS is big-endian, and YYYY-MM-DD is big-endian
<FireFly>
and MM-DD-YY is fucked up
<elliottcable>
holt shit all of those numbers were palindromes
<alexgordon>
elliottcable: WOAH MAN
<elliottcable>
fucked up lol
<purr>
lol
<alexgordon>
FireFly: yes, silly americans!
* FireFly
doesn't get US-endian
<alexgordon>
elliottcable: you are silly
<elliottcable>
I'm not silly!
<elliottcable>
I use sane standards and formats.
<elliottcable>
Metric all the way, bitch.
<FireFly>
Woo
<elliottcable>
Except leagues. Leagues are obviously the best unit for measurement of long-ish distances on the ground.
<FireFly>
How long is a league?
<elliottcable>
and I'm pro-extra-U's in words,
<elliottcable>
between 3.6 and 5.8 km
<micahjohnston>
crazy how everything in statistics is like
<micahjohnston>
optional
<micahjohnston>
whatever works best
<FireFly>
Oh, so about half a swedish "mil"
<elliottcable>
unless you're talking about a leagu, or a nautical league, which is based on a nautical mile
<micahjohnston>
rather than Right™
<elliottcable>
which itself varies depending on the altitude-above-sea-level of the observer,
<elliottcable>
... sooooo,
<FireFly>
(which is a very confusing unit because it's etymologically related to "mile" but actually defined as 10km)
<elliottcable>
Jules Verne was calling it 4km.
<elliottcable>
so we'll go with that.
<micahjohnston>
alexgordon: am i right
<alexgordon>
micahjohnston?
<elliottcable>
“Approximately Forty Thousand Kilometres Under the Sea, Dependant Of Course on Where The Speaker is Standing” doesn't have quite the same ring to it
<elliottcable>
micahjohnston ⑊ I'm a bitcoin'er now.
<alexgordon>
elliottcable: I won't argue with you because I want to find out what micahjohnston is talking about
<FireFly>
"In Norway and Sweden, the old "land mile" or "long mile" was 36,000 feet: because of the different definitions of foot then in use, in Norway this was 11,295 m and in Sweden 10,688 m. (Had the imperial foot been used, the distance would have worked out to 10,972.8 m.) The distance was equal to an older unit of measurement, the "rast" ("rest", "pause"), representing a suitable distance between rests
<FireFly>
when walking. [1] See League (unit)"
<FireFly>
Heh
<elliottcable>
alexgordon ⑊ huh?
<alexgordon>
NO ARGUE
<elliottcable>
NO ARGUE ABOUT WHAT!?
<elliottcable>
oh
<elliottcable>
so, speaking of
<elliottcable>
Metric's great, but the league is sexy and needs to stay in business;
<elliottcable>
stones are fucking retarded, kg all the way;
<elliottcable>
Celsius is great, it's both more precise *and* easier to use than Fahrenheit,
<alexgordon>
don't you insult stones! I have no idea what they are but nobody else uses them so they must be good
<elliottcable>
and sure, throw U's in whatever words you want
<elliottcable>
but, god almighty, I will punch you if you mis-use a V.
<elliottcable>
er, Z*
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<FireFly>
Hm
<FireFly>
elliottcable: do you use cups and stuff for cooking?
<alexgordon>
FUCK cups
<alexgordon>
alexgordon: wat.
<purr>
beep.
<elliottcable>
fucking people putting fucking voiced fricatives in my fucking words where they don't fucking belong
* elliottcable
grumbles
<elliottcable>
FireFly ⑊ I don't cook much, but I go very much back-and-forth on volumetric measurements.
<elliottcable>
Fuel? l/100k, although I'm very familiar with the equivalent MPG, because I speak both fluently when necessary due to always flitting back and forth;
<elliottcable>
Additives in my coffee? tablespoons.
<elliottcable>
liquor? fluid ounces when measuring mixes (then again, that's a universal international standard), but metric litres when measuring gross volume thereof
<elliottcable>
but cups vs. centilitres or similar? eh. whatever's closest to hand at the time. I can do most of the conversions in my head, due to living in a damned Imperial hornet's nest, but ... meh.
<alexgordon>
what the fuck is a fluid ounce
<elliottcable>
volume annoys me already. I can't estimate it, or do any calculations in my head with it ... it's always been a big black box to me
<elliottcable>
I've literally not the slightest idea how much a litre is. or a gallon.
<alexgordon>
use grams
<elliottcable>
only that there's 3.8-ish litres in one.
<alexgordon>
easier to weigh stuff than to measure volumes
<elliottcable>
alexgordon ⑊ you know what a shot of liquor is?
<FireFly>
I know the size of a dl measurement, a litre, 10 litres
<elliottcable>
oh, with one exception:
<FireFly>
(from sizes of bowls and stuff)
<elliottcable>
I can usually measure *exactly* 750ml with my eyes.
<elliottcable>
I can't tell if something's a litre or not,
<FireFly>
...why?
<elliottcable>
but I can tell you if it's 3/4s of a litre.
<elliottcable>
standard liquor-bottle size in the U.S.
<FireFly>
That's weird
<FireFly>
Haha
<elliottcable>
yes, it's standardized to a metric measurement. weird, right?
<elliottcable>
everywhere else, you get: 50ml, 20cl, 70cl
<FireFly>
Also, interesting, I didn't know US tablespoon/teaspoon measurements were pretty much the same as ours (namely, 15ml and 5ml respectively)
<elliottcable>
here, we've got: 750ml and 1750ml (I kid you not)
<FireFly>
Heh
<elliottcable>
not only do we import your units for that, we import them at odd numbers.
<elliottcable>
here we call 750ml bottles “fifths”
<elliottcable>
because they're approximately a fifth of a gallon, and nobody knows what the fuck a milliliter here.
<elliottcable>
and then guess what the bigger ones are called?
<FireFly>
I dunno, halfs?
<FireFly>
or something completely different
<elliottcable>
a two-fifth? a seventeen-fifty? a halfsies?
<elliottcable>
no. they're called a handle.
<elliottcable>
what the fuckin' fuck, America.
<FireFly>
uh-huh
<elliottcable>
I live in you, I love your guns, and I love your economy, but *god* do I hate your units.
<FireFly>
Oh, that reminds me
<FireFly>
why the hell is "pounds" abbreviated as "lbs"?
<FireFly>
I've never understood that
<elliottcable>
Libra.
<elliottcable>
Libra's scales?
<elliottcable>
lbs. scales.
<elliottcable>
it's lb, not lbs. You don't pluralize unit abbreviations.
<elliottcable>
i.e. 12kg, 145lb ... not 32kgs.
<FireFly>
Ah
<elliottcable>
better yet, 191℔ <3
<elliottcable>
Unicode, bitchtits.
<elliottcable>
that'd make an innovative computer-virus
<elliottcable>
something that spreads, and then later invokes a paylod that verrrrryyyyy slowwwwllly changes the definitions of various units, in minute increments, in any conversion tables or unit definitions it can find on the system
<micahjohnston>
alexgordon: I *mechanically* see that euler's identity works etc.
<alexgordon>
then what's to get! :P
<elliottcable>
I want his artistic penis.
<micahjohnston>
I want to get it intuitively
<alexgordon>
Euler's artistic penis?
<elliottcable>
god I hate it when you people talk about something I don't understand.
<elliottcable>
lol alexgordon you crossed the conversational wires.
<purr>
lol
<elliottcable>
alexgordon: wat.
<purr>
beep.
<micahjohnston>
alexgordon: taylor series are the best math
<micahjohnston>
I thought of them and they turned out to be real
<micahjohnston>
elliottcable: *
<alexgordon>
micahjohnston: after a bit mathematics stops providing you with intuitive explanations of things and just gives you notation
<micahjohnston>
alexgordon: betterexplained.com
<micahjohnston>
does a good job of making things intuitive
<Nuck>
1-800-ELL-IOTT
<elliottcable>
what alexgordon said
<elliottcable>
even *I* knew that
<Nuck>
And yeah Dresden Codak is a fucking genius
<elliottcable>
the worse you are at intuition, the better the mathematician you are.
<Nuck>
Which is why women suck at sciences.
<Nuck>
/sexism
<elliottcable>
If you have a really hard time visualizing/intuitively-manipulating things in four dimensions, then you're going to be forced to exercise those *abstraction* mental-muscles
<elliottcable>
and the same, exponentially more so, if you can't easily visualize/operate in even three
<elliottcable>
someone who has trouble visualizing the simplest three-dee transformation, is nearly guaranteed to handle the math for N-dimensional translations with flawless ease, once they're taught the notation and systems thereof
<elliottcable>
I'll call it “Elliott's Brain-Hygiene Hypothesis”
<Nuck>
Brain-Hygiene?
<elliottcable>
The earlier you're exposed to “dirt” (things that can't be intuitively processed), the “stronger” your brain will grow to be in the long-run.