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<malia> ,,
<devyn> whitequark: its error handling? it feels kinda gross honestly
<devyn> it's like they were trying to do C-like error handling but slightly better
<devyn> and that's what it is,
<devyn> but that doesn't mean I want to use it
<devyn> Go is supposed to be a “systems programming” language, but I think there's an internal conflict between low-level and high-level within it
<devyn> I think, quite frankly, that it's too big to be a low-level language
<devyn> it's more like a lower-level Java
<devyn> or C++ but somewhat higher-level
<malia> devyn?
<devyn> hey malia
<devyn> how are you?
<malia> doing good devyn no problem. good to see you. I haven't been on in ages.
<devyn> I haven't been around much either
<devyn> but I'm on spring break now
<devyn> starting today
<devyn> so
<devyn> it'll be nice
<malia> oh great, devyn spring break is hella good. I've been just totally involved with stuff and have had no computer time believe it or not.
<devyn> oh, cool. what sort of thing do you get involved with?
<malia> devyn I have been playing a heckuva lot of tennis... by the time I get home it is cook dinner and CRASH........I have become a maniac
<malia> or not cook dinner like tonight and crash--just had protein powder in almond milk
<malia> I will bbl, my turn in the shower.... :) totally happy to see you devyn
<devyn> :) you too, malia
<devyn> hang in there
<malia> (hugs) great to see you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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<malia> ahh better
<malia> so, devyn what do you have planned for your break?
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<Nuck> Oh wow
<Nuck> malia
<Nuck> That's a name I haven't seen since I first joined #elliottcable
<Nuck> Forgot that Obama's daughter used to hang out here.
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<vil> I don't think I've met malia
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<whitequark> devyn: hmm
<whitequark> I certainly agree that mandatory GC is a no-no for a generic systems programming language
<whitequark> you couldn't really implement an OS kernel in it
<whitequark> I won't say that Go is "big". It took me two hours to read and (mostly?) understand the spec.
<whitequark> Compared to both C (death by a thousand special cases) and C++ (bloated and overcomplicated beyond any reason), that's quite good.
<alexgordon> Go fills a weird hole where it's too high overhead to be a viable replacement for C++, but it's too totalitarian to be a replacement for Python
<alexgordon> it basically competes with Java
<whitequark> interesting
<whitequark> it's the second time someone compares Go with Java
<whitequark> but there's a problem with that.
<whitequark> Java, as a language, is a) very mediocre b) very, very different from Go.
<whitequark> disregard a), actually, it doesn't matter here
<alexgordon> well I'd put Haskell in that niche too
<alexgordon> Haskell is definitely nothing like Java
<whitequark> the b) consists of several parts. Java doesn't have unsafe operations. Java shields you from the platform-specific details. Etc.
<whitequark> Java is heavily used by enterprise, much because it's kinda bureaucratic. You can take a thousand monkeys, make them write Java and the resulting ERP system will run. It will be bad, it will regularly crash, but it will work.
<whitequark> I don't really see how Java, as a language, and its target market, can be a realistic competition to Go.
<whitequark> There's also JVM, which is awesome because it is a heavily optimizing runtime for running dynamic languages, and which has even less to do with Go.
<whitequark> (b) Go isn't even object-oriented.
<alexgordon> because it's in the same performance/"strictness" class
<whitequark> So. How does it compete with Java?
<whitequark> performance doesn't matter
<alexgordon> it matters to me
<whitequark> well, then Go competes with Java within your head ;)
<whitequark> I'd like to view a more global picture
<alexgordon> my head matters!
<alexgordon> there's two attributes you can't change about a programming language: how well code written in it performs, and how good it is at preventing bugs
<whitequark> alexgordon: both false
<alexgordon> I can write the same kind of thing in Haskell or Java, and it may look very different, but I will end up with more or less code that performs the same (not super slow, not super fast), and with not an insane number bugs (unlike with Python)
<whitequark> the second: you can write in Python in the 90's C++ style (compile it, click it, crash it), or you could use TDD
<whitequark> the language is same, the result is drastically different
<alexgordon> I'm talking about planet earth though
<whitequark> ok?
<whitequark> as per performance, yeah, look at MRI 1.8 and JRuby. the difference is ~several orders of magnitude in some cases.
<alexgordon> I wasn't comparing MRI and JRuby?
<whitequark> alexgordon: to quote you, "a programming language"
<alexgordon> pypy may be faster than cpython but cpython is the one that people actually use, so it's what matters
<whitequark> you made a general statement which is incorrect
<alexgordon> this isn't #pedants
<whitequark> that doesn't mean you could state an incorrect fact and get away with it?
<whitequark> or well, you obviously can state whatever you want, but then I don't care
<alexgordon> not really
<whitequark> hm?
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<Nuck> Y'know what? Fuck this. I'm gonna just implement the O(god wat) algorithm for this
<whitequark> suddenly a wild velociraptor appears
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