sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<r0ach>
Is there any consensus in this channel of cryptocurrency being required to adhere to a certain monetary school, or can you just make up any random thing as long as it "appears to probabilistically be secure"
<r0ach>
as in, it's a currency, so mostly an engineering task by default, not a religion
<SireWolf>
bitcoin is some sort of class of commodity but I dont think its a currency
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<belcher>
r0ach some schools of economic thought would require centralization to implement e.g. a central bank to interpret all economic data and change the money supply to keep prices stable
<SireWolf>
you would need an authority to provide pricing wouldnt you?
<belcher>
iv mostly seen the fixed money supply as the only decentralized way of doing it, it getting libertarians interested is a side effect
<r0ach>
my implied statement is that it's an entirely an engineering task to create a price peg, if you remove accessibility, you cripple the engineering task
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<r0ach>
and then you can never say 1 chicken = 1/10th a hat because it will always just be an extortion scheme
<SireWolf>
could we do some sort of decentralized authority, maybe handling shares and voting on the blockchain?
<belcher>
yes, to learn price information you need to query the real economy
<belcher>
even central banks dont always get it right, and they are centralized institutions with a large amount of resources at their disposal and the backing of their states
<belcher>
doing the same thing in a decentralized ungamable way seems impossible (but im happy to be proven wrong)
<belcher>
however you could make a centralized cryptocurrency that went with the keynesian or monetarist school, easily
<SireWolf>
well couldnt you poll shareholders for the price?
<belcher>
shareholders = currency holders ?
<SireWolf>
I dunno
<belcher>
"oh yes, prices are really high, please engage in monetary tightening that will make the currency more valuable"
<SireWolf>
but couldnt you poll people on the network and have it ask what the price is and the mean average of the poll is seen as the price?
<belcher>
point is they'll lie because they want their investment to get more valuable
<SireWolf>
so we need a decentralized marketplace that can be used to gauge the price?
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<SireWolf>
seems easy enough if you peg two cryptocurrencies against each other
<belcher>
that can be gamed by sybiling, the same entity being the buyer and seller and trading at whatever price they want
<SireWolf>
but thats useless
<SireWolf>
fees could mitigate against that
<SireWolf>
price fixing by trading with yourself wouldnt be free
<belcher>
so that is like churning, a method of market manipulation
<belcher>
if the manipulator owns enough currency units, their profit can be higher than the fee required
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<SireWolf>
an advanced AI able to gauge the price organcially thats consensus driven and distributed?
<SireWolf>
a trustless AI that can figure out the price without an authority the way you can?
<belcher>
as you're finding out, it rapidly becomes very complex
<SireWolf>
granted I dont think any of us can develop that or providedit the processing power tody..
<SireWolf>
but would it work?
<SireWolf>
in any case yeah
<SireWolf>
that's not a simple engineering challenge
<SireWolf>
I like it when the implemention is the relatively easy part
<SireWolf>
lol
<belcher>
if you're going to do it for free to release an open source currency, you might as well work for central banks doing the same thing and get paid well
<belcher>
its essentially making an automated central bank oracle
<SireWolf>
well the obvious answer
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<SireWolf>
is to integrate the market into the currency
<SireWolf>
but how do you send gold to a blockchain?
<SireWolf>
or anything else thats stable
<SireWolf>
seems like you'd need to bootstrap it with a centralized currency to peg it against
<belcher>
you cant even premine the currency to fund development because the point is that price levels stay stable
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<SireWolf>
oh the price needs to fluctuate and its probably a good idea to have it go up in value, seeing as the whole crypto scene is speculative investment driven
<SireWolf>
financially atleast
<SireWolf>
but it needs to be slow and predictable
<SireWolf>
ya know?
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<SireWolf>
which... heh
<SireWolf>
building a coin that can manipulate its own price isnt going to be easy is it?
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<SireWolf>
could you bootstrap stablecoin with a centralized ecurrency?
<belcher>
of course, you maintain a peg
<SireWolf>
I mean if you had a non profit that issued digital silver citificates
<belcher>
it may be expensive, and you'll need to follow the law regarding AML/KYC
<belcher>
the swiss central bank spent billions defending its eur/chf peg, before giving up
<r0ach>
there actually already is a "stablecoin" fyi, which did not prove to be very stable (lol)
<MRL-Relay>
{-othe} hows multisig going with zcash zooko?
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<SireWolf>
-othe whats zcash?
<MRL-Relay>
{-othe} check their website
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<want_2o_know>
Hi.I'm new to IRC so please forgive in I'm doing some newbies staff. I'm trying to learn the depth of the bitcoin system can anyone answer some question I have?
<belcher>
#bitcoin is a better channel for that
<want_2o_know>
thanks
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