sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<Luke-Jr>
xuxu: Elements Alpha and Liquid use multisig on the main chain, so they could in effect be used as-is to make private sidechains
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<Luke-Jr>
oh ew, it's not even possible to *upgrade* Rust using your own Rust compiler.. you have to use their "bootstrap" binaries *every single time* :/
<midnightmagic>
Luke-Jr: sounds like Go
<Luke-Jr>
I just recently uninstalled Firefox completely; maybe I should do the same with Rust.
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<fluffypony>
lmatteis: do you really think he'd submit a paper for peer review? it'd get destroyed.
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<instagibbs>
fluffypony, that's a laugh because vitalik has personally admitted to me that he thinks 13 validators is "good enough" for decentralization
<proslogion>
instagibbs: really? i thought it was "250 validators ought to be enough for everyone."
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<lmatteis>
fluffypony: :)
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<lmatteis>
fluffypony: vitalik is a smart person. he might be a bit biased, but i'm sure his logic is not completely unfound
<fluffypony>
lmatteis: the problem with "logic" is that it doesn't have much place in the design of cryptographically sound, adversarially-resistant systems
<fluffypony>
attackers can completely circumvent "logically" sound schemes (see, for eg., preimage attacks)
<proslogion>
basically he has a tendency to make his system infinitely more complicated, and in the process rekt a few other building blocks, just to solve a problem he feels interested...
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<lmatteis>
fluffypony: sure. he just needs to better formalize his security model
<lmatteis>
as all systems are never 100% resistant to attacks
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<fluffypony>
that's a double-edged sword, lmatteis
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<lmatteis>
all i'm saying is that data trumps everything
* lmatteis
giggles at *trumps*
<fluffypony>
well what's the point of formalising it? it's so that it can be peer reviewed
<lmatteis>
indeed
<fluffypony>
so therein lies the issue: he lacks the education to present in a way that it can be peer-reviewed
<fluffypony>
so when he uses incorrect notation it means mathematicians and cryptographers scratch their heads for a few minutes trying to understand it, and then move on with something else
<lmatteis>
yup
<lmatteis>
i also think that academics might be too much on the other end of the sword - too much formalization and peer-review, and less on actually getting working software to people
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<fluffypony>
sure, that's why there's a balance of both in Bitcoin
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<JackH>
kanzure, what material and reference material do you have for payment hubs? and do you also collect whitepapers like for HORNET and Sphinx etc?