<wpwrak>
you mean how we transform an 8x10 to 8x8 matrix ?
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<wpwrak>
the answer is simple: we don't :-) we just define a different matrix. the matrix is defined by the PCB.
<Oksana>
I don't know. I don't know what pins the domesheet keyboards has, I don't know what uses them. Just trying to parse these numbers to get a meaningful picture of how it works.
<Oksana>
Ok, you define a larger matrix for Neo900 than was used in N900?
<Oksana>
Does it mean that there will be a change, regarding N-key rollover?
<wpwrak>
yes, the matrix is larger. i guess (that comes from nik) it's mainly motivated by the number of pins that keyboard controller chip has
<wpwrak>
not sure if there are user-visible differences. in any case, i'd expect them to be barely noticeable.
<Oksana>
Ok, so part of matrix will be unused, since domesheet array stays fairly similar? There will be some signals in the matrix which never actually happen?
<wpwrak>
actually, i wonder if we couldn't have a nicer solution for the three shift keys than equipping with with diodes (as of the current draft schematics)
<wpwrak>
i mean, we have that HUGE matrix :) nokia managed with 8x8 and no diodes at all
<Oksana>
You mean, you have diodes for Ctrl, Shift, and Fn? To avoid the N-key rollover issue?
<wpwrak>
the number of keys should be (*) identical to N900, yes
<wpwrak>
(*) if there's the odd switch, we may hook it up to the matrix. but i don't think we have anything like that at the moment
<wpwrak>
(diodes) yes
<Oksana>
{Re-arranging the keys in a matrix in a smarter way} sounds more complicated than {adding three diodes}.
<wpwrak>
well, nik put them there. maybe i can get rid of them again ;-)
<wpwrak>
but i'm not sure the matrix is actually finished. there's a number of things there that doesn't seem to make sense
<Oksana>
If you get a matrix arranged differently from what Nokia had, you will have to: 1. publish it somewhere; 2. make sure it's problem-proof.
<wpwrak>
sure
<Oksana>
Right-Down-Up gives a dot. Funny.
<wpwrak>
nokia's matrix probably doesn't work well for > 2 simultaneous keypresses. i.e., they don't have the modifier keys in an isolated sub-matrix
<wpwrak>
yes, that's the false key that's supposed to appear then. seems that both physics and logic are being strictly enforced ;-)
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<Oksana>
Just looking on CDS-SMS plug-in and thinking: how do I find how it reads incoming flash-SMS, and how do I get default Conversations app to send flash-SMS?
<DocScrutinizer05>
you need not-so-commonly-used "PDU" for that, iirc
<Oksana>
Yes, I have looked at the link some time ago. The matrix made sense.
<DocScrutinizer05>
wpwrak: thanks for sorting the LED issue/ooopsie
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<DocScrutinizer05>
Oksana: you found the exact explanation for PDU, flash and blinking SMS. Note there are also invisible SMS and command code SMS or whatever
<Oksana>
Thank you for pointers! Not going to parse the intricacies of SMS right now, though...
<DocScrutinizer05>
and generally known "idiocy": my DNS for chat.freenode.net tells me to connect to morgan.freenode.net in USA while I'm only a few km away from kornbluth.freenode.net server in Frankfurt?
<DocScrutinizer05>
I added kornbluth.freenode.net 6667 joerg_rw:mypassword to my ZNC config, as first server line
<DocScrutinizer05>
I completely fail to understand the supposed benefits of chat.freenode.net roundrobbin
<DocScrutinizer05>
it more often than not connects me to servers in USA, particularly since eu.chat.freenode.net (or whatever it was) is deprecated or even vanished
<DocScrutinizer05>
and I hate my traffic getting redirected to USA err NSA deliberately, while a "local" server would be available
<DocScrutinizer05>
it might be "funny" just to increase the amount of useless data the NSA has to record and filter and analyze, but other than that it's plain silly
<DocScrutinizer05>
>> We do not provide regional rotations, except Asia/Pacific Rim, because we aren't very good at keeping them up-to-date as the main rotation changes.<<
<DocScrutinizer05>
the complete concept of rotation basically evades me
<wpwrak>
(plasma-desktopD11330.png) ? no TNO or MSL (maximum shelf life ?) i can see
<DocScrutinizer05>
haven't checked yet, prolly both are fine, I however guess that better efficiency at red and blue is even finer, given green is physiologically a color that needs lower brightness for same effect
<DocScrutinizer05>
there's no TNO mentioned in context of MSL and baking etc, but it might be related I thought
<wpwrak>
brain hasn't booted far enough yet to make it to arrays of 3 or larger :)
<DocScrutinizer51>
heh, get a coffee! that's what I do now :)
<wpwrak>
however .... mcd are already adjusted for the eye's sensitivity
<DocScrutinizer51>
umm
<DocScrutinizer51>
whatever
<DocScrutinizer51>
brightness beats cheap and true-color here
<DocScrutinizer05>
how many mcd we got from the bright ones?
<DocScrutinizer05>
max, per color
<DocScrutinizer05>
(obviously you're right re relative brightness in Candela. When comparing to brightness of a candle, no physiological effects matter, they are already booked in)
<wpwrak>
processing ..
<DocScrutinizer05>
ZNC kinda sucks, on installation
<DocScrutinizer05>
CentOS install comes with a Fedora init.d scropt that has some funny paths set up. Running standard setup procedure tells you
<DocScrutinizer05>
[ ?? ] Please specify an alternate location (or "stdout" for displaying the config)
<DocScrutinizer05>
*after* you entered all the basically redundant crap (redundant since there's already a config file somewhere else from your 0.98 ZNC installation)
<DocScrutinizer05>
but later on (after fixing the path to config file in initscript) you notice that ZNC also prints stuff like:
<DocScrutinizer05>
[ .. ] Adding server [kornbluth.freenode.net 6667 joerg_rw:MyEX-SekritPassword]...
<DocScrutinizer05>
asking in channel #tnc about this gets you the helpful info "you're supposed to use SASL on freenode!"
<DocScrutinizer05>
#znc even
<wpwrak>
max luminosity etc. is in your mail
<wpwrak>
good luck comparing these values, though ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
APA1606 looks good
<DocScrutinizer05>
on a sidenote to simplify your workload: iirc the LP5523 can do max 25mA
<wpwrak>
correct. so the 30 mA figures don't make much sense
<DocScrutinizer05>
30mA Imax is fine, so we don't build hard-brickable stuff (which I generally hate to do)
<DocScrutinizer05>
there's already too much that got a self-destruction mode: CPU on overclocking/overvoltage, Indicator LED, flash LEDs (overheating), speakers (without XPROT) etc
<DocScrutinizer05>
not to mention all the other IO collision things "available" for self destruction in N900
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<DocScrutinizer05>
an extremely fine one: the LP5523 IRQ output(?) can get configured to push-pull at Vbatt level
<DocScrutinizer05>
I guess the SoC wil adore this on a 1V8 GPIO
<DocScrutinizer05>
[internal note: make sure we got a 470R series protective R on that line]
<DocScrutinizer05>
or make that 10k or sth
<wpwrak>
okay, updated for 25.5 mA
<wpwrak>
(irq @ Vbat) i like engineers with a good killer instinct ;-)
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<DocScrutinizer05>
still the APA1606 looks good
<DocScrutinizer05>
QBLP617-IG (true Green) however is a monster: typ 380mcd
<DocScrutinizer05>
could we get 2 sampled of each type, for true visual tests?
<DocScrutinizer05>
the true-green/bluegreen type always has extreme outstanding mcd
<DocScrutinizer05>
partly thanks to high Vfwd which is same as for blue, partly thanks to the technology and maybe also due to physiological effects though those shouldn't count here
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<wpwrak>
(true green) if you don't mind the little detail that it doesn't seem to exist on this plane of reality :)
<jonwil>
What it sounds like is that the development guys seem to want to be more open
<DocScrutinizer05>
but management blocks as usual
<jonwil>
but the management is concerned about the risks (i.e. will it give their competitors all their secrets, will it lead to patent lawsuits, will the people using their IP core have an issue with it, will the people building products with PowerVR-containing SOCs have an issue with it)
<DocScrutinizer05>
wpwrak: (true green) well, maybe not on digikey and from this manufacturer
<jonwil>
Some Android OEMs may not necessarily like the idea of open PowerVR GPU drivers for their devices
<dos1>
jonwil: most of those reasons are already moot thanks to recent "leak"
<jonwil>
remember that the "leak" is one set of code for one specific Android version (and specific SOC or whatever) and doesn't cover anywhere near the full set of devices using PowerVR cores
<dos1>
they probably won't really cover "full set of devices" in open drivers anyway, but I'd expect most of potentially troubling stuff to be shared between android versions, socs and devices
<jonwil>
I just hope any open drivers cover omap3 as well as omap4 (the leak seems to be for omap4 stuff)
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'd not hold my breath for that. I did same effort once, for ST-E NovaThor Mali(?) and the result been zilch. An arbitrary employee pushing doesn't make an open driver suite yet
<DocScrutinizer05>
(actually ST-E already published the stuff but the .h had a non-gpl compliant license and thus was "useless" for FOSS. And my effort was 'only' for changing the licensing)
<DocScrutinizer05>
pathetic
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, meanwhile ST-Ericsson is no more
<DocScrutinizer05>
and NovaThor would have been just yet another all-in-one shared-RAM chipset
<DocScrutinizer05>
even sw development (e.g. me) had no access to the signing key, we had to sign our development binaries with a weird setup that got signature from a single unique signature server somewhere in Sweden or whatever. Sometimes it failed... ;-P
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<DocScrutinizer05>
first thing to do for the PVR dudes when planning to go FOSS was to provide *datasheets*, not sourcecode
<DocScrutinizer05>
community could care less about sourcecode of drivers, when there was a decent TRM describing how that GPU works, down to bit X in register Y
<kerio>
DocScrutinizer05: pls no flaming #znc :c
<DocScrutinizer05>
huh?
<kerio>
"wtf why is there no way to configure sasl via the web interface"
<DocScrutinizer05>
I think I didn't use "wtf"
<kerio>
i was paraphrasing
<DocScrutinizer05>
I just asked if there's a general way to give commands like '/msg *sasl bla foo bar' in any other way than via an IRC client
<kerio>
i think one of the plans is to add a web irc client to the web interface
<DocScrutinizer05>
and I *bet* there is. Just the hepful people in this channel gave an XY answer, which is even worse than asking an XY question
<kerio>
rofl
<DocScrutinizer05>
after all *all* ZNC configs are in plain text in some files on server
<DocScrutinizer05>
~xy
<infobot>
xy is, like, The XY problem: You want to do X, but don't know how. You think you can solve it using Y, but don't know how to do that, either. You ask about Y, which is a strange thing to want to do. Just ask about X. http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#goal
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<DocScrutinizer05>
I asked how to do X but they answered I could do Y or Z instead
<freemangordon>
could someone try to explain me how exactly "downloading" that source code from a public server makes me criminal and stops me from contributing to FOSS SGX driver?
<DocScrutinizer05>
freemangordon: there's no explanation for nonsense
<kerio>
DocScrutinizer05: i wonder if there's a signal to make znc save the config
<DocScrutinizer05>
kill -SIGHUP znc
<kerio>
then i wonder if there's a signal to make znc load the config
<kerio>
i think hup is load
<kerio>
it's like standard
<freemangordon>
it is like walking on the street, find a closed letter, open it and see "top secret, authorized usage only" to make me criminal
<DocScrutinizer05>
err well, I guess it *saves* as soon as you give a command that changes the config
<DocScrutinizer05>
freemangordon: NSA did that to 10000s of US citizens ;-P
<kerio>
no, it doesn't
<kerio>
unless you have chansaver loaded
<DocScrutinizer05>
"you are obliged to help us by handig us all the data we ask you for. You will go gitmo when you tell anybody about the request, the data transfer, **or this letter**"
<DocScrutinizer05>
kerio: what's your definition of config then?
<freemangordon>
DocScrutinizer05: obviously I didn't mean in USA :).
<kerio>
DocScrutinizer05: znc doesn't save config on every change
<kerio>
it only saves on graceful shutdown
<kerio>
or on /znc saveconfig
<DocScrutinizer05>
freemangordon: doesn't matter, since one guy was brave and showed the letter to his lawyer, and in the end NSA been told by judge to stop this illegal practice
<DocScrutinizer05>
kerio: even worse then
<kerio>
i think you can SIGUSR1 to saveconfig
<kerio>
and SIGHUP to rehash
<freemangordon>
thanks got I am in EU, even in such a godforsaken like BG
<kerio>
(load config)
<freemangordon>
*place like
<DocScrutinizer05>
kerio: see why I hate to edit "config" via IRC?
<kerio>
u mad
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's massively insane
<DocScrutinizer05>
kill -9 znc; vi .znc/config; /etc/init.d/znc restart
<jonwil>
regarding leaked PowerVR source code, I think the issue is proving that said PowerVR drivers didn't copy any code or info from PowerVR leak (if someone who has written code for the FOSS drivers has seen a single line of proprietary PowerVR leak code it would be hard to prove that nothing was copied)
<kerio>
DocScrutinizer05: that has some side effects tho :3
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah, the amusing side effect that I don't get headache from ZNC "administrative user interface"
<freemangordon>
jonwil: sorry, but is it really me to prove anything?
<freemangordon>
isn't it the other way around?
<freemangordon>
"...unless proven guilty"?
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<DocScrutinizer05>
exactly
<jonwil>
I know the guys working on WINE (which lets you run Windows stuff on Linux) and ReactOS (FOSS clone of Widows) had some legal issues because some people looked at the leaked Windows source code then contributed to those 2 projects.
<jonwil>
ReactOS had to stop development and rewrite a bunch of stuff
<DocScrutinizer05>
an annoying habit in FOSS scene to always assume "guilty until proven to not be"
<freemangordon>
jonwil: this is not an answer to my question :)
<freemangordon>
whom shall I prove I've never read that code?
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<DocScrutinizer05>
it results in bizzare concerns like "if I would buy a service from you, and in 3 years your wife is doing something illegal, then they will sue and imprison me for ever having talked to you"
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<jonwil>
There is also (in the US at least) the whole argument around whether APIs can be copyrightable (See the Oracle vs Google lawsuit).
<DocScrutinizer05>
in my book I could come up with a sourcecode I claim some angel whispered into my ear at night while I was sleeping, and as long as nobody can prove that I used too many identical unique names for vars etc there's nothing wrong with that code
<freemangordon>
I exclude USA from the equation, I really CBA about all that patent crap going on there. I talk about EU
<freemangordon>
however, I have to run. bbl
<DocScrutinizer05>
we could stop using electric devices when we had to worrxy about some jackass claiming to have a patent on using "+" char to add two factors
<DocScrutinizer05>
freemangordon: cya! :-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
software patents,my a**
<DocScrutinizer05>
all in line with DMCA
<jonwil>
The whole "Apple vs Android" patent fight is the #1 reason I refuse to give Apple a single cent of my money (e.g. buying their hardware, buying iTunes cards as gifts for people etc)
<DocScrutinizer05>
where speaking a sequence of digits can already be a crime
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<DocScrutinizer05>
see the CSS(?) key story
<kerio>
in the UK it can be illegal to disclose that the government knows about the prime factorization of a certain number
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<DocScrutinizer05>
in France it is (or was) illegal to encrypt your mail
<DocScrutinizer05>
[2014-12-19 Fri 21:27:01] <DocScrutinizer05> yup, it every time gives you a feeling like somebody beamed you into a parallel universe where complete ingorance is a mandatory skill for getting a responsible job
<DocScrutinizer05>
wait until Nestle gets patents on the act of breating
<DocScrutinizer05>
for now they only have patents on drinking water and mostly watery liquids
<jonwil>
Too bad there isn't a nice sane country we can all move to, one that isn't participating in the global "spy on everyone" business, one that doesn't have stupid anti-circumvention laws, one that doesn't carry out censorship (Germany is no good because they have censorship, they have it for what may be good reasons but its still censorship)
<kerio>
yeah idk about the laws against hate speech
<DocScrutinizer05>
hmm, Germany is poor on a lot of these thngs, but I don't know much about censoring in D
<kerio>
DocScrutinizer05: can't yell "heil hitler" in the streets
<kerio>
that's censorship
<DocScrutinizer05>
hmmm, arguable
<DocScrutinizer05>
we (the more sane 30% of Germans) like to think of it being a threat
<kerio>
30%? :o
<kerio>
i dunno, i can't stop thinking of stuff like that as not trusting the people enough
<DocScrutinizer05>
is not selling arms in supermarket censorship?
<jonwil>
I think in terms of German censorship of video games (The area I have heard the most about) it comes down to A.A prohibition on video games that contain anything Nazi related and B.That "index" thing that means developers have to remove violence, change humans to robots, change red blood to green or whatever in order to be able to sell their game in Germany
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, see above
<kerio>
jonwil: fwiw, that's just cuz video games aren't considered art
<kerio>
otherwise they wouldn't have that restriction
<jonwil>
which one? The Nazi rule or the other stuff?
<kerio>
both, actually
<kerio>
AO ratings exist for other media
<kerio>
and frankly, i don't give a shit about gamestop not selling physical AO games
<kerio>
valve won't mind :3
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<wpwrak>
(mail) ah, you bounced it. if you really think you have to use that mechanism (e.g., if authenticity is important), you should warn people
<DocScrutinizer05>
ok
<DocScrutinizer05>
felt lazy about adding own mail body
<wpwrak>
(true green) not at digi-key, mouser, octopart, ... :) maybe it's something their science and fantasy department put there - once they catch a few unicorns and european black swans, then they'll make it :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
those LEDs exist, just maybe not from this manuf and maybe even in this formfactor
<DocScrutinizer05>
I have several 3mm and 5mm wired bluegreen LEDs here and they are awesome and damn bright
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<Openbot>
74 people on this channel
<Openbot>
nice ;)
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<Openbot>
Hi xes
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<DocScrutinizer05>
wpwrak: aynway, what do you think about my idea to get real samples of as many alternatives as available?
<DocScrutinizer05>
could we invent an "universal footprint" so we don't need to decide and write in stone which LEDs to use in final product?
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<DocScrutinizer05>
duh!
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* DocScrutinizer05
starts thinking we might get away with no fancy amps and filters at all, just connecting the UART RX to GND via 1kR||photodiode, and route from this UART RX to audio-in via a DC-blocker capacitor and atenuator
<DocScrutinizer05>
(sidenote: sorry for "inverted" polarity of the plots above)
<wpwrak>
(leds) they're all pretty much the same size. so a footprint that works for one should also be fine with the others. has to be a bit larger than standard 0603, but that's all
<wpwrak>
command is :DISP:DATA? (1000c series had :LCD:DATA?)
<wpwrak>
i think the scope just sends a straight .bmp file, so you can just chop off the length and then return the BMP, leave the rest to "convert" (from imagemagick)
<wpwrak>
i.e., you don't need to do the rigol_to_ppm stuff
<wpwrak>
amazing how easy life has become nowadays ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah, and how complicated. E.G for trigger status
<wpwrak>
at least you won't have to do the arcane ritual i had to do for downloading waveforms :)
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<DocScrutinizer05>
would you also have a pointer to recent (latest) firmware image, plus instruction how to "update" the critter
<DocScrutinizer05>
seems rigol themselves don't provide such thing, and leave that job to their distributors
<wpwrak>
no idea. maybe ask on eevblog ? the device is quite young, so there may not be an update yet
<DocScrutinizer05>
ooh, there been like 4 or 5 or some more
<wpwrak>
oh, busy folks ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
also "quite young" == older than one year already
<DocScrutinizer05>
at least
<wpwrak>
the 54z ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
the DS1000Z
<wpwrak>
yes, the series is older. but your model should be pretty recent.
<DocScrutinizer05>
not its firmware
<DocScrutinizer05>
prolly the only ting that's actually recent is the offset print that says "DS1054Z"
<DocScrutinizer05>
and the config/parameter file to make a 1054 out of the board
<DocScrutinizer05>
note that after enabling all the secret stuff even the info display says "DS1074Z"
<wpwrak>
oh, so you didn't enable 100 MHz ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
I didn't enable anything yet
<DocScrutinizer05>
I first want to evaluate my options for rollback before I do
<DocScrutinizer05>
and aiui the firmware updates been always identical for 1104 and 1074, and the firmware version on my 1054 is identical to the one reported to be latest for 1074 and 1104
<DocScrutinizer05>
the manual is also the same for all three models
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'm quite sure the only difference between you sitting in front of a 1054 or a 1104 is a few bytes in parameter/config file in flash. And the printing on boilerplate
<wpwrak>
there seems to be a pcb / smt difference regarding the MSO extension. the 70 and 100 can be upgraded, the 50 not.
<DocScrutinizer05>
MSO?
<DocScrutinizer05>
the logic analyzer?
<DocScrutinizer05>
I doubt that can get upgraded on any DS
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's a chip that is not populated on my board
<wpwrak>
seems that the 70/100 have the chip -> somewhere on eevblog :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
would be weird
<DocScrutinizer05>
I also never heard of such upgrade
<wpwrak>
like the bandwidth change: flip a software switch :) (well, and add the connector kit, in the case of MSO)
<DocScrutinizer05>
hmm, haven't heard of neither seen that
<DocScrutinizer05>
otherwise I had ordered the 1074 :-/
<wpwrak>
those LAs are overrated :) and in the case of the 10000CD, they don't work particularly well. quite the hassle to get any useful data with that. and i heard that 1000D didn't improve much on that. dunno about 1000Z
<DocScrutinizer05>
MEH! >> /dev/usbtmc0 is reserved for communication with the driver itself. /dev/usbtmc1 is used for the first USBTMC instrument attached...<<