DocScrutinizer05 changed the topic of #neo900 to: http://neo900.org | conversations are logged to http://infobot.rikers.org/%23neo900/ and http://irclog.whitequark.org/neo900
<DocScrutinizer05> BB has HDMI-out, no?
<ds2> BBW/BBB has HDMI out
<ds2> BBC/BBX has DVI only
<DocScrutinizer05> BB-xM
<ds2> BBX does NOT have HDMI out
<DocScrutinizer05> quatrox: :-)
<ds2> it is the same video out as BBC
<DocScrutinizer05> well, I just wonder ehat's simpler circuit, VGA or the BB DVI one
<ds2> same complexity
<DocScrutinizer05> so go ahead, you cance to contribute on schematics level ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05> your chance*
<ds2> well, you can do a poor man's VGA with R2R ladders but announce when you do that so I can leave the channel before the support request come :D
<DocScrutinizer05> hehe, I can build working R2R. But we need to de-serialize the source first
<ds2> your problem is dealing with the "serial" video
<ds2> and that protocol is not public :(
<DocScrutinizer05> :nod:
<ds2> not even sure if the name for the protocol is even public :(
<DocScrutinizer05> whatever it is, seems BB-xM using it
<ds2> no
<ds2> the BB-xM is not doing any serial video
<DocScrutinizer05> so if the chip used in BB-xM has at least semi-decent specs for the HW-interface incl soldering etc...
<ds2> BBX is pure parallel output going into 22ohm antireflection resistors that gets tee'ed to the 410 and the 2 headers
<ds2> it is a QFP package
<ds2> parellel in, DVI out
<DocScrutinizer05> so the OMAP can do parallel? fine with me
<DocScrutinizer05> we cannot use LCD and digital jack in parallel anyway
<ds2> yes
<ds2> but the pins for serial and parallel are shared :(
<DocScrutinizer05> 454? 565?
<DocScrutinizer05> (shared) doesn't matter, there's a thing called mux
<ds2> that chip I think wants 565, IIRC
<ds2> but the OMAP canoutput 24bpp
<DocScrutinizer05> the minimum for any decent picture
<ds2> you can mux but these are high speed signals
<DocScrutinizer05> *shrug*
<ds2> donno if anyone has tested the sw to switch btwn serial and parallel modes
<DocScrutinizer05> we need to take care while layout#
<ds2> actually... no
<ds2> you can cheat
<ds2> the DM3730 has 1.5 sets of balls for video output
<ds2> you might be able to work that as a mux
<DocScrutinizer05> sounds good, yeah
<ds2> they call it legacy vs "high speed" or improved output balls
<ds2> check the docs
<DocScrutinizer05> what actually bothers me is 565 on DVI chip, that's not any decent quality
<DocScrutinizer05> it's "65k colors" mode
<DocScrutinizer05> prolly even R2R VGA looks better
<ds2> let me look, I am going by memory and doing 4 other things at the same time :/
<DocScrutinizer05> may I assign this task to you?
<ds2> sorry, it is 24bit
<DocScrutinizer05> :-D
<DocScrutinizer05> gooood
<ds2> not if you need it done in a reasonable amount of time ;)
<DocScrutinizer05> 3*8?
<ds2> yeah
<DocScrutinizer05> omn 8 bit parallel
<ds2> TFP410 is that does the work
<ds2> s/that/what/
<quatrox> I have a feeling that DVI could be difficult. Not sure why
<ds2> quatrox: DVI is for most intents and purposes HDMI - audio
<quatrox> I know
<quatrox> It can even support the crappy encryption HDCP
<DocScrutinizer05> that however NEEDS a membership in some cheesy club
<ds2> if you can provide the parallel video signals to a connector, someone else can take it from there
<ds2> if you can get it that far, someone can probally OEM your boards and slap on their own LCD
<DocScrutinizer05> we cannot
<quatrox> Will at least one of the SIM slots be available without removing the battery?
<DocScrutinizer05> quatrox: yes, the external / secondary one is supposed to sit in spacerframe
<ds2> that's what Gerald said for the Rev A of BBC
<ds2> 0.4mm pitched FPC connectors? ;)
<quatrox> DocScrutinizer05: nice
<DocScrutinizer05> I want a ready usable video signal, fitting to "standard" TV/monitor
<DocScrutinizer05> no 24bit plus control signals finepitch FPC
<quatrox> hmmm.... I thought GTA04 have composite out via the audio jack
<DocScrutinizer05> Neo900 will have as well, since N900 had
<Wizzup> right, but composite is not something that most monitors support
<DocScrutinizer05> that's crap however
* Wizzup likes where this is going
<quatrox> ahh
<ds2> composite on the OMAP is tricky to get right
<DocScrutinizer05> N900 did
<DocScrutinizer05> looks pretty simple
<ds2> N900 had issues with detecting some monitors, IIRC
<DocScrutinizer05> like ~ 5 external components, birdseed
<ds2> there are RFI issues
<quatrox> hmm... too bad GiFi never took off as a defacto standard
<DocScrutinizer05> N900 detects monitors by the 50R(?) termination afaik
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<DocScrutinizer05> the signal quality however is abysmal, just about good enough for simple TV
<ds2> 75
<DocScrutinizer05> :nod:
<ds2> did the n900 do it themselves or used the detector in the omap?
<DocScrutinizer05> there's a detector in OMAP? Nah, N900 has a comparator for that
<quatrox> regarding TFP410... maybe you do not need that membership if we find a reseller?
<DocScrutinizer05> discrete one
<ds2> the trm claims they have one
<ds2> TFP410 doesn't require anything special, AFAIK
<ds2> cash and carry, docs are downloadable...maybe with export verifcation
<DocScrutinizer05> sorry folks, I have to head back to bed, curing my flu
<ds2> been a few years since I used those parts
<quatrox> DocScrutinizer05: please get well. We depend on you
<DocScrutinizer05> ds2: I'd appreciate a lot when you could eventually come up with some suggestion draft for digital video
<ds2> for the muxing or what aspect?
<DocScrutinizer05> the muxing will be no particular problem. Just interface of $CHIP to OMAP
<ds2> Oh... cut and paste from the BBX schematics
<ds2> done.
<ds2> :D
<ds2> or you want the VGA version?
<DocScrutinizer05> considering availability of $CHIP and docs for $CHIP
<DocScrutinizer05> DVI sounds easier than VGA
<ds2> it is the same
<DocScrutinizer05> for VGA I need 'manual' deserializing and D/A still
<ds2> software doesn't really see a difference and hw just replaces the encoder with a DAC
<ds2> the 410 takes the same signals
<DocScrutinizer05> 3 DAC
<ds2> they make 24bit DACs for VGA output
<DocScrutinizer05> oooh
<ds2> you might need a level converter for syncs
<DocScrutinizer05> DVI still sounds nicer
<ds2> but AFAIK, there are single chips that will do it
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<ds2> just borrow the BBC/BBX designs, it is really simple
<DocScrutinizer05> :nod:
<ds2> I can try to do a quick write up as time allows
<DocScrutinizer05> that's been my almost-forgotton-back-when-original plan
<ds2> :)
<ds2> the sw to switch things would be the scarier thing
<DocScrutinizer05> :nod:
<DocScrutinizer05> worst case multiboot ;-P
<quatrox> :)
<DocScrutinizer05> honestly not _my_ problem
<quatrox> or rmmod $a; modprobe $a $opt
<ds2> hahahahaha
<ds2> quatrox: that doesn't work :(
<ds2> tried stuff along those lines for other projects
<DocScrutinizer05> hmm, I wonder what color the smoke in that case
<DocScrutinizer05> ;-)
<ds2> but then I also had power managmenet in the mix for them. maybe just getting a signal out is easier
<DocScrutinizer05> you might tweak both driver modules so they have a disable "switch" and modprobe-load both concurrently
<DocScrutinizer05> basically N900 cameras do similar stuff aiui
<quatrox> what is the technical problem you may solve with multi boot which cannot be solved by echo $something >/proc/.... ?
<DocScrutinizer05> mind you they mux fornt and main cam
<ds2> unless it got cleaned up, the problem is the enables are not in one place
<ds2> the DSS has different parts
<DocScrutinizer05> n8 folks
<ds2> some of them use the side effect of something else getting turned on to enable a clock
<quatrox> good night
<ds2> 'nite
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<DocScrutinizer05> DVI needs at least 7 contacts (data1..3 +/-, GND), prolly quite some more. We have max 8 contacts
<DocScrutinizer05> :-S
<DocScrutinizer05> DDC is also mandatory
<DocScrutinizer05> which is DDC_DATA and DDC_CLOCK, that's already 3*2 + 2 + 1 == to many
<DocScrutinizer05> too*
<Oksana> SlimPort sounds neat... Except, it may overload micro-USB port: data (mass storage mode), networking, charging, and now audio/video. Still, how likely is it that Neo900 will support SlimPort?
<DocScrutinizer05> http://projects.goldelico.com/p/neo900/issues/502/ http://www.analogix.com/en/products/slimport/overview chip been vaporware with a tendency to "foprget it" iirc
<DocScrutinizer05> I'd still use the SIM "jack" rather than USB for SlimPort meanwhile, since we want to sue USB for the primary purpose. What's the use of a pocket size workstation with decent digital video out that you can't connect a kbd and mouse to, neither some charger/PSU?
<Wizzup> agreed
<DocScrutinizer05> I guess VGA is the better approach though, given the #-of-pins issue. SlimPort chips need HDMI/DVI for input, the one chip that could do parallel 3*8 in will never get built
<DocScrutinizer05> iirc, it's almost a year since I looked into it
<DocScrutinizer05> >>The ANX7802 transforms the HDMI output of an application processor to MyDP or DisplayPort.<<
<DocScrutinizer05> >>The ANX7808 transforms the HDMI output of the mobile device’s application processor to MyDP or DisplayPort. <<
<DocScrutinizer05> ANX7805 isn't listed anymore
<DocScrutinizer05> (VGA better) at least we have chances to implement it with one chip only, instead of two complex ones. And it doesn't need any *complex* adapter attached to device to connect it to a standard inpit (VGA), while SlimPort needs http://www.mobilefun.com/37046-analogix-slimport-sp1004-hdmi-adapter-for-slimport-smartphones.htm
<DocScrutinizer05> ...on top of the already needed SIM->whatever adapter plug
<DocScrutinizer05> SIM->VGA we can provide by Neo900 UG, and you can even build them DIY
<DocScrutinizer05> it's just "wires"
<DocScrutinizer05> video-in RGB-­‐24 bits Single Data Rate (SDR)
<DocScrutinizer05> even MIPI-­‐DSI (4-­‐Lanes) input interface at 1Gbps/lane
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<DocScrutinizer05> ds2: for DVI we don't have sufficient contacts on our "jack"
<DocScrutinizer05> ds2: so VGA it is. Any pointers to nice all-in-one chips for 888->VGA?
<DocScrutinizer05> (888) whatever the OMAP3 can provide/drive
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<bencoh> hmm
<DocScrutinizer05> 3V3 input
<DocScrutinizer05> and the form factor, hmmm
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<DocScrutinizer05> http://www.chrontel.com/index.php/products/ch7033-hdtv-vga-hdmi-dvi-encoder monster, but might be worth a closer look
<DocScrutinizer05> >>Supports 8/12/16/18/24-bit parallel interface input for either RGB format (RGB-565, RGB-666 or RGB-888 and etc.) or YCrCb format (ITU-R 656 or ITU-R 601)<<
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<DocScrutinizer05> https://octopart.com/partsearch#!?q=CH7033&start=0&limit=10 :-/
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<bencoh> "encoder" ?
<Wizzup> scaling engine sounds nice
<DocScrutinizer05> bencoh: aiui it encodes to DVI etc
<bencoh> from ? vga ?
<DocScrutinizer05> RBG parallel
<DocScrutinizer05> ?
<DocScrutinizer05> see block diagram
<bencoh> oooh right there is a left menu :)
<DocScrutinizer05> it even mixes in audio SPDIF to the signal
<DocScrutinizer05> monster...
<bencoh> that sounds pretty cool
<bencoh> with a breakout cable
* jake42 wonders what the state of BB-xM rework is
* DocScrutinizer05 too
<DocScrutinizer05> will try to send a mail to Nik today
<DocScrutinizer05> flu got me paralyzed, somehow
<jake42> get well soon
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