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<DocScrutinizer05>
moin!
<DocScrutinizer05>
we got a new schematics version for proto_V2. A million thanks and kudos to Nikolaus
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<DocScrutinizer05>
it seems that Nikolaus has no workload now and thus can take his well deserved holiday until shortly after new year. Probably Werner and me will also reduce work a little during that timespan, actually I'm completely offline from Tuesday ~ Saturday. But while Nik does holiday, me and Werner will again review the new schematics. We'll see if we can layout (and build) a PCB after that or we need a third design&review spin
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<DocScrutinizer05>
wpwrak: ^^^
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<kerio>
sixwheeledbeast: still no bouncer huh
<DocScrutinizer05>
hmm?
<sixwheeledbeast>
kerio: not had time to look. Always get poor inet connection in winter here. You start doing something and then, no inet connection. Grr
<DocScrutinizer05>
ooh, some join/part cycles I didn't see? :-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
hi sixwheeledbeast
<sixwheeledbeast>
hi DocScrutinizer
<DocScrutinizer05>
sixwheeledbeast: if you just want a bouncer to use: I just updated mine to ZNC1.4, it can handle arbitrary amount of independant user accounts
<DocScrutinizer05>
IOW you can use my bouncer
<kerio>
or you can use MY bouncer
<kerio>
which is running the latest znc nightly
<kerio>
so it tends to crash
<kerio>
but not that often!
<DocScrutinizer05>
hehehe
<kerio>
both crashes i encountered were caused by ssl
<sixwheeledbeast>
I was looking at YourBNC, obviously hosting my own is pointless due to drop outs.
<sixwheeledbeast>
not got round to it get it's on my todo over christmas
<DocScrutinizer05>
sixwheeledbeast: you got a server at some hoster?
<DocScrutinizer05>
honestly, using a bouncer somebody offers to you for free is probably a great option, unless you completely mistrust that person
<kerio>
DocScrutinizer05 is gonna steal ur nickserv password!
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah, and hijack all those channels he's founder of
<DocScrutinizer05>
but then, freenode recently opened automatic password reset function, that sends new passowrd to your email address. Hard to hijack that as well
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<Kustomize>
Hello
<DocScrutinizer05>
hi!
<DocScrutinizer05>
kerio: >>It's not suggested if you are new to ZNC, but it's also possible to add a new user via the config file. To do that, edit znc.conf and add a new <User> section. After that, rehash ZNC by issuing /msg *status rehash from IRC or kill -SIGHUP `pidof znc` from the shell.<<
<kerio>
ooh here's where it was
<kerio>
you can saveconfig with SIGUSR1
<DocScrutinizer05>
maybe
<DocScrutinizer05>
I hope it autosaves when I use webadmin interface though
<kerio>
it definetely doesn't save the new channels on every /join unless you load chansaver
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes, that's obvious
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's not even supposed to save them on SIGUSR or whatever
<DocScrutinizer05>
aiui
<DocScrutinizer05>
otherwise chansaver would be pretty silly
<kerio>
the latest znc has a "realtime" config for each channel
<kerio>
that defined whether or not it's supposed to be saved on the config
<kerio>
i dunno, it's weird
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah
<kerio>
still the best bouncer tho :3
<sixwheeledbeast>
sorry was away, founder?
<DocScrutinizer05>
I called the UI paradigm of ZNC as based on "you're holding it incorrectly"
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<kerio>
DocScrutinizer05: it's clear that multiuser support is just an afterthought
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes, of course
<DocScrutinizer05>
but it "just works"
<kerio>
well
<kerio>
i mean
<kerio>
it really does!
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<DocScrutinizer05>
sixwheeledbeast^: Hi!
<sixwheeledbeast^>
DocScrutinizer05: :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
obviously *I* can see you
<DocScrutinizer05>
:-)
<sixwheeledbeast^>
but I can't see me :P
<DocScrutinizer05>
so no idea about pidgin's userlist
<DocScrutinizer05>
does pidgin some "heuristics" to recognize own nick and handle it differently?
<DocScrutinizer05>
it might not know about the new nick, particularly when your "local" nick pisgin<->ZNC is differnet to ZNC<->greenode:#neo900
<DocScrutinizer05>
freenode*
sixwheeledbeast^ is now known as six_newnick
six_newnick is now known as sixwheeledbeast
<sixwheeledbeast>
mh
<DocScrutinizer05>
sixwheeledbeast: aaah, I like that nick of yours best
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'll re-activate fail2ban on ZNC
<kerio>
pidgin is stupid anyway
<DocScrutinizer05>
:nod:
<kerio>
group conversations barely work for standard IM
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<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah, the concepts are not compatible
<DocScrutinizer05>
that's why I'm using xchat on N900, not "conversations"
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<DocScrutinizer05>
ok, walked another happy camper through ZNC startup mess. Time for a chillout with some more coffee
<DocScrutinizer05>
bbl
<kerio>
did you set DenyLoadMod on him
<sixwheeledbeast>
o/
<DocScrutinizer05>
kerio: thought of it but didn't find
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<DocScrutinizer05>
there it is
<DocScrutinizer05>
dine
<DocScrutinizer05>
done even
<DocScrutinizer05>
kerio: TA!
<kerio>
otherwise there's some obvious DoS
<kerio>
loadmod dcc, dcc a 30tb file in
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<kerio>
which shouldn't take 30tb of upload
<kerio>
...assuming you can dcc via tls
<kerio>
otherwise it will take 30tb of upload
<DocScrutinizer05>
:nod: I guess there are even nore vulns in arbitrary loaded modules
<DocScrutinizer05>
more*
<kerio>
can't do that i guess
<kerio>
...unless you can dcc one in
<DocScrutinizer05>
for example, yes
<DocScrutinizer05>
also the existing ones are suspicious
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, I know whom to shoot down at least ;-D
<kerio>
a real multiuser install should just remove the bad modules i guess
<DocScrutinizer05>
:nod:
<DocScrutinizer05>
not assuming malicious intention at sixwheely's side ;-)
<kerio>
btw, znc 1.5/1.6 removed awaynick
<DocScrutinizer05>
after all I "know" him and he's under constant "threat" of close scrutiny by admin of the server: me
<DocScrutinizer05>
\o/ \o/
<DocScrutinizer05>
FSCK awaynick!
<DocScrutinizer05>
almost as evil as ascii-gfx
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<DocScrutinizer05>
~autoaway
<infobot>
rumour has it, autoaway is We don't care if you're 'afk', 'having a shower' or 'doing my wife'. If we really want to know, we'll /whois you. So please disable any public messages your client sends when you go /away or come back, as there are over 800 people here. If everyone did something annoying, we'd never get any conversation in. In BX, /set auto_away off. /saveirc, or nick changes are just as annoying.
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<sixwheeledbeast>
:facepalm: pidgin is showing my alias in the namelist not the nick
<sixwheeledbeast>
wasn't planing on using modules I have NFC what they do at the moment.
<wpwrak>
(end of year plans) here, work will be pretty constant. but, as i'm only 50% on neo900 and been doing little else but neo900 for the past weeks, i'll switch for a couple of weeks to "anelok-only" soon. (soon = finishing that nfc thing first, though)
<wpwrak>
(new schematics) do we ? all i've seen is nik mentioning that he'll work on them
<DocScrutinizer05>
I got a private mail, with attachments (invoice, tarball, ...)
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<jake42>
bold step :-)
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<DocScrutinizer05>
hehehe
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<jake42>
is he going over to 7.X?
<DocScrutinizer05>
ULP now offers access to DRC error list, which lured him in
<DocScrutinizer05>
aiui yes
<DocScrutinizer05>
so we *finally* can use one project file format in whole project group
<DocScrutinizer05>
:-))
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<jake42>
sounds like a step forward, lets hope no setbacks result from this
<DocScrutinizer05>
as "collateral damage" this might result in schematics.pdf *finally* coming with _searchable_ strings
<jake42>
didn't goldelico use a custom routing script, which only worked for old binary eaglefiles
<DocScrutinizer05>
I think HNS told sth like that, yeah
<DocScrutinizer05>
we'll see
<jake42>
though I heard the autorouting in v7 got alot better
<DocScrutinizer05>
mebe he realized that XML is much simpler to parse than a custom format. Or he never really parsed the project files but used ULP to create his own stuff / "API" to the router
<DocScrutinizer05>
maybe*
<DocScrutinizer05>
all I know is a statement like "it's massively Mac-specific and thus not exactly suited for FOSSing it"
<DocScrutinizer05>
wpwrak: you seen my - in my book great - success with talking plain ascii to Rigol-TMC?
<wpwrak>
yes, this looks encouraging. i wonder how robust it is, though. i found that these instruments usually need very nasty hacks if you want stable communication
<DocScrutinizer05>
alas gimp didn't like the file, neither renamed to *.bmp nor when I cut off the header - maybe I failed to cut off header *correctly* though
<wpwrak>
but for interactive use, you're flexible. if it fails for some reason, just retry. and you won't get to the more obscure modes anyway.
<wpwrak>
the file size looks wrong in any case, even if taking the header into account. there seem to be 1-2 bytes that shouldn't be there.
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, I can do basically all that's listed in "Programming Manual"
<wpwrak>
a quick check would be that the file should begin with the two letters "BM"
<wpwrak>
and you can use "display" from imagemagick. much faster than starting gimp and all the gui gunk
<wpwrak>
(i can do) that's what i thought, too, when i had my first communication with an instrument. many days and many hacks later, i knew better ;)
<DocScrutinizer05>
amazing, it just needs doing stuff correctly and all unexpectedly it suddenly works ;-P
<DocScrutinizer05>
though this is truly amazing, it's yet much more *fun* to make blinkenlights under the knobs of Rigol ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
re my idea to replace annoying clumsy Rigol UI sensor elements by input from a PC based macro generating application: it seems TMC has all it needs for that
<DocScrutinizer05>
e.g. it should be possible to scroll through lengthy wave records (H Pos rotary dial) also by setting Pos via TMC command
<DocScrutinizer05>
so no need to attach a power tool to the rotary dial to do the 100 turns it needs
<DocScrutinizer05>
(btw the trick is to reduce the "strech factor" (go to higher delta-t/div) then scroll to target and "zoom in" again
<DocScrutinizer05>
)
<DocScrutinizer05>
now for a awk(?) script to do the needed trimming automatically
<DocScrutinizer05>
btw I did the editing in mcedit ;-P - one single line of >10E6 chars (just happened there was no other \n or \r in raw data payload)
<DocScrutinizer05>
just saving took an unusual 5s or sth
<DocScrutinizer05>
...in mcedit
<DocScrutinizer05>
saving raw data from Rigol ober USB took about as long
<DocScrutinizer05>
over*
<DocScrutinizer05>
WOW!
<DocScrutinizer05>
wpwrak: style improved beyond what I had thought would be possible
<wpwrak>
so all the bickering was good for something :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
hehe
<Kustomize>
One question. Why the project don't use micro made by Snapdragon, Mediatek or Exynos for example ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'll leave that to somebody else to answer :-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
kudos to Nikolaus! excellent work
<DocScrutinizer05>
c'mon guys! nobody willing to answer Kustomize's question? :-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
nobody will blame you when you miss out on some of the 97 reasons why we stay on OMAP3
<DocScrutinizer05>
;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
Kustomize: it's prolly just that this question fell off from top of our FAQ list, it's rank -3 or -4 :-)
<Kustomize>
i think that is a question of price
<DocScrutinizer05>
Kustomize: one simple reason: we want to stay compatible with N900 so we can hope for maemo fremantle working on Neo900
<DocScrutinizer05>
another simple reason: there are no other SoC available that are actually suited for such project (except maybe OMAP4 and OMAP5)
<kerio>
and omap4 is awful
<DocScrutinizer05>
but now I'll stop to leave some reasons for somebody else to chime in. I don't want to have all the fun and not leave any to the other folks here
<Kustomize>
but TI have processor that can compete with the main processor manufacturer ( qualcomm, etc.. ) ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
Neo900 is not about competing
<Kustomize>
yes but you are building one from scratch
<DocScrutinizer05>
that's exctually not true
<DocScrutinizer05>
actually*
<wpwrak>
"exceptionally untrue" ? :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah
<DocScrutinizer05>
you found the freudian that happened in my mind while writing
<DocScrutinizer05>
>>This is all based on a free, mature and stable platform - the GTA04.<< http://neo900.org/#about
<Kustomize>
understood
<Kustomize>
working in a new SoC will be very dificult and much more expansive
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes, exactly
<DocScrutinizer05>
also more risky
<DocScrutinizer05>
we're cowards, we don't dare to gamble with expectations of our supporters/customers
<DocScrutinizer05>
we rather do something we *know* will work
<DocScrutinizer05>
we can start gambling when we got our own money to risk. We're funded by community though
<Kustomize>
its very interesting adventure
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, the core crew is kinda used to it already ;-)
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<DocScrutinizer05>
werner (wpwrak) and me already did similar stuff in Openmoko
<DocScrutinizer05>
and Nikolaus did the GTA04 already
<DocScrutinizer05>
so it's not so much of an adventure anymore, but still "interesting", yes
<wpwrak>
it's always an adventure :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
EE is actually always an adventure, yes
<DocScrutinizer05>
even more is producing a device
<wpwrak>
just that you've been to the nike doesn't mean that the trip to the amazonas will be a picnic ;-)
<wpwrak>
niLe even
<Kustomize>
all of you are working exclusivly for this projects ? maybe to private question hehehe
<wpwrak>
me 50%. the other half is my own open hardware project, the anelok password safe
<DocScrutinizer05>
me 100%, Nikolaus on demand
<DocScrutinizer05>
and I wish dos1 had more time to do the website, but he's 99% busy with studying it seems
<Kustomize>
do you know aproximatly how much money it necesary to build one smartphone from scratch ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
start with a significant fraction of a million
<DocScrutinizer05>
when you want to go very economic and not waste any money on marketing etc
<DocScrutinizer05>
and you find engineers that work for almost free, compared to normal wages
<DocScrutinizer05>
and that doesn't count in any software yet
<Kustomize>
fraction of a million is 500k€ ? xD
<DocScrutinizer05>
that would be a start, yes
<DocScrutinizer05>
it won't allow you to start *producing* anything, but you can comfortably develop the hardware
<wpwrak>
Kustomize: would you use a module for the modem or use chips you place directly on your PCB ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
LOL
<DocScrutinizer05>
#a nasty question
<wpwrak>
(-:C
<DocScrutinizer05>
for the latter, multiply all by factor 2.5 at least
<Kustomize>
i involved in a startup that want to build one, but a this moment we use hardware that already exist, we only change the external design
<wpwrak>
and don't forget the 1 MUSD or so (that was a few years ago and just for GSM+GPRS, so it's probably more now with inflation, UMTS et al.) downpayment so that the chip maker understands you're serious and will even begin to talk to you
<wpwrak>
reusing existing hardware is often a very wise decision :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
hehe
<Kustomize>
and i looking information to know it's possible to work in our own hardware
<DocScrutinizer05>
look at cars: Mercedes officially supports AMG and Brabus. Other modders are not allowed to sell the car as "Mercedes" after modding it
<DocScrutinizer05>
or maybe that was some other car brand that goes mad at modders
<Kustomize>
yes but they can sell the card without the name Mercedes ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes
<Kustomize>
sorry, the car
<Kustomize>
but i don't know if they incure in patent issue
<DocScrutinizer05>
Apple recently tries to block all spare parts sales of second source, claiming they were counterfeit parts or whatever. They want to kill repair not done by their own service points
<DocScrutinizer05>
there are rarely patents on cases
<DocScrutinizer05>
there been that "round corners" case between Apple and Samsung(?)
<DocScrutinizer05>
but such stuff usually is copyright etc, never patents
<DocScrutinizer05>
generally you won't show up on their radar with low batch volumes
<Kustomize>
i think if they buy the car, you have the ownership of them
<Kustomize>
and then you can do what you want with this
<Kustomize>
like with a smartphone
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes, sure
<DocScrutinizer05>
but *selling* it is another story
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer05: maye they don't sell the car. just the modding service.
<DocScrutinizer05>
that's a possibility
<Kustomize>
this kind of dudes its the reason to look for our own hardware
<Kustomize>
but for a production of 200 units i think its maybe impossible
<DocScrutinizer05>
but as soon as you offer a "Mecedes 500 Kustomize" on your website, and Mercedes tells you "thatS' no Mercedes" they will sue you outa the water
<kerio>
DocScrutinizer05: if i end up buying a neo900, i don't want it to say "nokia" on the case :v
<wpwrak>
Kustomize: short answer to your question: building a phone with "modern" characteristics from scratch, think in the area of 5-10 MUSD to get rolling.
<DocScrutinizer05>
kerio: it won't
<kerio>
yay
<kerio>
will it say "fuck elop"
<DocScrutinizer05>
hehe
<wpwrak>
Kustomize: you can probably save a good deal by licensing some design, though. but then you'll be limited to what choices have been made for that design.
<kerio>
if i end up buying a neo900, i want it to say "fuck elop" on the case
<kerio>
idk how feasible is that, tho
<Kustomize>
the external design its made by us, wpwrak you mean, electronic design ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
kerio: we'll offer that special service for you, for a few bucks
<wpwrak>
Kustomize: yes, if you want to have everything according to your wishes
<wpwrak>
Kustomize: of course, even then there are limits. if you want weird stuff, watch considerably more money go down the drain.
<DocScrutinizer05>
look at Jolla. they bought some "standard design" at dunno FoxCon and slightly modded it to their specs
<DocScrutinizer05>
aiui
<wpwrak>
Kustomize: but your limitation may be more time than money. but of course, complicated ideas also affect this.
<Kustomize>
wpwrak:but its not easy to find it, where can i buy/license a design ?
<Kustomize>
its not simple as search at google xD
<DocScrutinizer05>
ask FoxCon etc
<wpwrak>
Kustomize: maybe first decide what sort of features you want. just whatever android ? anything more specific ? anything unusual you want to add ?
<wpwrak>
Kustomize: and then you can talk to companies that make similar devices. which companies would depend on the requirements.
<Kustomize>
nothing special
<Kustomize>
all we ask me the same question
<Kustomize>
how many thousand you are thinking to manufacture
<Kustomize>
xD
<DocScrutinizer05>
:nod:
<DocScrutinizer05>
for 200 you need to ask e.g. Golde Delicious Computers
<DocScrutinizer05>
but you won't get something 2not special" there
<wpwrak>
Kustomize: well, if they only make it if you take 10k while you need 100, but they make it cheap, then you buy 10k and toss 9.9k into the shredder :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
:-D
<DocScrutinizer05>
0k should be available for maybe 1 million bucks
<DocScrutinizer05>
10k
<DocScrutinizer05>
2 million maybe
<DocScrutinizer05>
particularly without case
<kerio>
i will totally make 0k smartphones for you for much cheaper than that
<DocScrutinizer05>
hehe
<DocScrutinizer05>
I dunno how many devices jolla sold, maybe a xx k
<wpwrak>
Kustomize: maybe you should talk to wolfgang spraul. he managed to pull that off an oem deal with a chinese manufacturer with a digital agenda. (the ben nanonote) he may have ideas.
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes, good idea
<wpwrak>
Kustomize: he'll of course tell you that you're stark raving mad for even thinking to make a phone, but you're probably already quite good at ignoring such advice ;-)
<Kustomize>
thank you wpwrak
<DocScrutinizer05>
that's basically exactly the way: get somebody who's familiar with the chinese market
<Kustomize>
thank you all
<DocScrutinizer05>
wolfgang is a good choice
<DocScrutinizer05>
just mention "price is irrelevant" (it is, given the case costs 2k already, right?)
<ShadowJK>
thr jolla store app used to show exact number of downloads. people used to the number of downloads of android support as measure of devices sold
<kerio>
rofl
<ShadowJK>
but now it only shows vague numbers, currently 25k+
<kerio>
so that's 25k including reflashes
<kerio>
what did jolla end up being?
<ShadowJK>
it's not clear if reflashes are counted
<kerio>
oh right it could be "purchases"
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<DocScrutinizer05>
I guess they must have sold 10k ,, 50k
<wpwrak>
Kustomize: you may also want to point out that you're likely to have the resources to do that. i.e., that you're not yet another loonie who just got an arduino to blink a LED and decided that making a smartphone would be the natural next step :)
<wpwrak>
(you'd be surprised how many of those are around :)
<ShadowJK>
you can get exact number of tablets on order, as they did it through indiegogo
<DocScrutinizer05>
wpwrak: you gave Kustomize some pointer how to contact WSpraul?
<DocScrutinizer05>
ShadowJK: which is? 6k?
<DocScrutinizer05>
even less?
<ShadowJK>
dunno
<DocScrutinizer05>
btw hi ShadowJK, long time not active
<DocScrutinizer05>
:-)
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer05: never say "price is irrelevant" unless you really mean to say that you're not going to pay anyway :)
<Kustomize>
yes DocScrutinizer05 , the cost of case its 2K€ but is like all, if you produce 10.000 maybe its less expensive, but we only want to make exclusive smartphones
<Kustomize>
wpwrak: the resources are always limited hehehe
<DocScrutinizer05>
I jusz wanted to point at the fact that it doesn't matter that the price is of course "exorbitantly high" for a 200 phone PCB
<DocScrutinizer05>
you obviously don't expect to compete with Samsung Galaxy
<Kustomize>
obviously not
<DocScrutinizer05>
might help to tell Wolfgang upfront
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer05: just pm'ed the mail ..
<DocScrutinizer05>
ta!
<wpwrak>
... and wolfgang is also here on Freenode, wolfspraul
<wpwrak>
not always very responsive, though
<DocScrutinizer05>
but usually afk
<DocScrutinizer05>
always logged in, never listening ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
[2014-12-21 Sun 18:54:11] [Whois] wolfspraul is ~wolfsprau@pD9FBB3DB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (Wolfgang Spraul)
<DocScrutinizer05>
[2014-12-21 Sun 18:54:11] [Whois] wolfspraul is a user on channels: #qi-hardware
<ShadowJK>
seems jolla started trying to figure out how to hack their tablet into booting their os
<DocScrutinizer05>
anyway, me has some chillout time now
<DocScrutinizer05>
bbl, have fun!
<Kustomize>
you are all germans ?
<Kustomize>
many thanks DocScrutinizer05
<DocScrutinizer05>
yw! :-)
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer05: he moved to berlin. already a good while ago.
<DocScrutinizer05>
I forgot
<DocScrutinizer05>
thought he's still in bejing or whatever
<wpwrak>
Kustomize: austrian here, but residing in argentina
<DocScrutinizer05>
~weather EDDN
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<infobot>
Nuernberg, Germany; (EDDN) 49-30N 011-03E 318M; last updated: 2014.12.21 1750 UTC; Dew Point: 35 F (2 C); Pressure (altimeter): 30.36 in. Hg (1028 hPa); Relative Humidity: 80%; Sky conditions: mostly cloudy; Temperature: 41 F (5 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: from the WSW (240 degrees) at 13 MPH (11 KT) (direction variable)
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<Kustomize>
then you speak spanish perfect ?
<Kustomize>
i'm from spain :)
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer05: he didn't like the pollution in .cn
<wpwrak>
Kustomize: the "jajaja" gave it away ;-) far from perfect here, heavy accent and lots of errors. functional enough to survive, though :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
ooh, there's a weird little company building phone hardware, even slightly customized if needed. I think they are called Neo900 UG ;-) Heard their hardware can run "Android" too
<merlin1991>
wpwrak: so ,ou're a fellow austrian, i'm from vienna :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
hi merlin1991! very long time no see
<Kustomize>
perfect, we only need 4 cores and 1 gb ram more
<Kustomize>
hehehe
<wpwrak>
merlin1991: hallo landsmann ! :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
ok, that's a tad too much customization
<DocScrutinizer05>
you're better off with a snapdragon etc design then
<merlin1991>
DocScrutinizer05: actually working on the next cssu-testing release, i hope i get it done in time for christmas :)
<wpwrak>
Kustomize: neo900 is limited by maemo compatibility requirements. would of course be nice if we could use, say, some allwinner or so. but that would break compatibility in too many ways.
<DocScrutinizer05>
merlin1991: nice :-)
<kerio>
i'd like 4 cores and 1gb of ram as well
<DocScrutinizer05>
sorry folks, I really need my breakfast now
<DocScrutinizer05>
1GB *more*, kerio
<kerio>
one for pulseaudio, one for dbus, one for systemd and one for the rest
<kerio>
DocScrutinizer05: then i want 4 MORE cores
<DocScrutinizer05>
rotfl
<kerio>
the first 5core smartphone
<ShadowJK>
doc: i think it's more like beer o'clock, not breakfast
<DocScrutinizer05>
not in JRTZV
<Kustomize>
jajaja kerio
<ShadowJK>
kerio: nvidia beat you to that
<DocScrutinizer05>
ShadowJK: btw who says I can't have beer for breakfast?
<DocScrutinizer05>
o/
<DocScrutinizer05>
l8rs
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<Kustomer>
:)
<DocScrutinizer05>
hehe, nice
<DocScrutinizer05>
"Mobile -- This one's tricky..." No Sir, it's not! ever heard of Maemo?
<DocScrutinizer05>
if you actually didn't, here's some hint: it's much like what you describe as Ubuntu Touch, just "it just works", unlike the nipple warmer
<DocScrutinizer05>
any suggestions for the smartest shell way to cut 11 bytes from head and 1 byte from tail of a >1MB binary file?
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<DocScrutinizer05>
sth like sed 's/.{11}(.*)./\1/' would work fine if there was a way to set line delimiter from \r to literally NIL
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<DocScrutinizer05>
hmmm, maybe I need to teach sed to deal with potentially multiple lines
<DocScrutinizer05>
cut leading 11 bytes in first line only, and cut trailing byte only on last line
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<wpwrak>
your file is binary. sed won't like that :) try dd ... (i'd ignore that last byte for now. most programs are good at not noticing trailing junk)
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<DocScrutinizer05>
ugh! me <- stupid. OF COURSE dd, what else :-D
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<DocScrutinizer05>
however sed doesn't mind binary data afaik
<DocScrutinizer05>
maybe 0x00 is a tad of a problem, though I think it could handle even that
<DocScrutinizer05>
but yeah, I must have lost my brain somewhere recently. dd is the answer to this sort of task
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<wpwrak>
sed may not mind .. but it could still do funny things
<DocScrutinizer05>
another question: how to get file size in bytes into an $env ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
parsing output of ls is not stable
<wpwrak>
oh, not related to dd, just thought of a new insult: "too stupid to pass acceptance exam for kindergarten". how does that sound ? (that's what listening to web radio and some of the more inept djs does to you :)
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<DocScrutinizer05>
it sounds like "in that world I want to shoot the parents first"
<wpwrak>
ls should be reasonably stable with the right options. there's also stat. certainly much less stable, but perhaps also obscure enough that nobody will mess with it much
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<wpwrak>
hehe :)
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<DocScrutinizer05>
hmm, maybe dd itself is the answer to the filesize-in-byte problem
<wpwrak>
yes, it'll report that, too
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's quite amazing that there seems to exist not a single decent hex-sed
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<wpwrak>
but i'd try to just chop off the header and see if the resulting file is accepted by the usual suspects
<wpwrak>
if not, then worry about the last byte. or if you have a mismatch > 1, find out what happened ..
<DocScrutinizer05>
it most likely is, but I take pride in doing stuff right when I think it's not too much overhead
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<wpwrak>
if you want to do it properly, you have to process the length-of-the-length information, too :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
a pity there are no antibytes
<DocScrutinizer05>
;-)
<wpwrak>
s/$antibyte//g ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
rotfl a goooood one
<wpwrak>
in perl, /gs. then you should be pretty safe :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
when "echo $antibyte >> somefile" shortens somefile by one byte, then it makes me laugh to try and figure what a s/$antibyte//g does. Almost as funny as pondring the filesize of a file filled with only several $antibyte
<DocScrutinizer05>
but, just like in real physics, nothing can really vanish in binary universe as well. so when a byte and an antibyte annihilate, what will be the resulting radiation?
<wpwrak>
kewl. a dj who figured out my way of searching for songs. he goes by vocals. song by X feat. Y sounds great, so maybe look at songs by * feat. Y, too.
* wpwrak
nod approvingly
<wpwrak>
nodS even
<wpwrak>
(still processing n900 fallout :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
hehe, hope eventually you'll learn about maemo in general :-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'd like to eventually hear your verdict
<wpwrak>
what i've seen of the ui so far isn't too bad. certainly better than everything we had at openmoko. (okay, that's making it easy)
<Humpelstilzchen>
openmoko...
<wpwrak>
there seem to be a bit too many different layers, though. often, it's a bit confusing how to get from A to B.
<DocScrutinizer05>
the UI, though actually pretty good, is of minor importance. The fact that you can customize the UI to all your liking is where things start getting interesting
<wpwrak>
Humpelstilzchen: shared dark past :)
<Humpelstilzchen>
dark indeed
<DocScrutinizer05>
get from A to B? always the same: click upper left corner icon to open up task switcher
<wpwrak>
yes, plenty of options. not sure they matter. often, less is more. especially of the extra "change the universe" features are just one or two taps away
<DocScrutinizer05>
lost me
<wpwrak>
the most annoying inconsistency i found to far are the time/date settings. there's a great one when you power up. and then there's different, crappy, one when you're up and running
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'm talking about stuff like replacing hildon desktop by modified hildon desktop
<wpwrak>
i'm also not sure about messages just yet. i like the concept of conversations but i'm not sure it holds up in multiparty situations
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes, indeed that's annoying, though I think the date setting slotmachine in welcome screen is as bad as it gets
<wpwrak>
(hildon) ah, no idea about that. i'm just talking about user + finger. not changing packages.
<DocScrutinizer05>
multiparty situations cannot get handled by "conversations"
<wpwrak>
date setting is crap. it's counter-intuitive - you should be allowed to just pick the item that's already on the screen.
<wpwrak>
but time is good
<Humpelstilzchen>
it should just remember the date...even if the battery is removed for a short time...for the rest there is ntp
<DocScrutinizer05>
date setting is most naturally done in a calendar
<wpwrak>
time zone, on the other hand, ... erm, what was that about kindergarten ? :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
Humpelstilzchen: it did when device was new
<wpwrak>
Humpelstilzchen: indeed. that's my #1 complaint: why on earth does a computer built after the antediluvian need a user to enter the time ?
<DocScrutinizer05>
wpwrak: because it can't pull it out of thin air
<wpwrak>
i mean, do i have to configure the byte size as well ? maybe help it with how many states a bit can have ? :)
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer05: it actually can. in several ways :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
it can pull it out of air filled with GSM waves, but that takes a few seconds longer than brining up the welcome screen
<DocScrutinizer05>
please note that the bupbat is broken
<wpwrak>
does the welcome screen need the exact time ? :) by the time i have entered it manually, it could have downloaded a 3d image of the fucking big ben and rendered it in real time
<wpwrak>
no no, entering time manually on an internet-connected device is sheer idiocy
<wpwrak>
time zone, yes. but time ? no
<DocScrutinizer05>
and that's what actually happens. And thus I tend to click away the welcome screen and then reboot. On second boot the time and date are correct
<DocScrutinizer05>
by the time the welcome screen gets opened the device has no conectivity yet
<DocScrutinizer05>
and yes. we all moaned about that
<DocScrutinizer05>
but again, please note that usually that's not supposed to *ever* happen, except on very first boot after device left fab
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's all just because the dang bupbat
<wpwrak>
yeah, two really bad things, working together perfectly :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
the software just hasn't seen thorough testing and streamlining there, since when it got developed, every developer and tester seen that screen exactly once per device
<DocScrutinizer05>
if at all
<wpwrak>
but we really should get rid of time entry. that like in those movies when someone wakes up after being asleep for a looong time and then they slowly bring that guy back up to speed. just in this case it's. "oh, good morning ! you've been out for a very long time. we have some news for your. erm, to start, we've developed multi-cellular life, ..."
<DocScrutinizer05>
the point is: it's so easy to kick out that welcome screen all together or replace it by whatever you like. And *that* is the beauty in maemo
<wpwrak>
hehe :) good. one glaring insult down :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
funny enough the welcome screen is a blob iirc
<DocScrutinizer05>
nfc why
<DocScrutinizer05>
maybe it's also doing the lockcode thing
<wpwrak>
heh ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05>
you should already have installed rootsh and openssh, and prolly also syslog
<DocScrutinizer05>
and simple brightness applet
<DocScrutinizer05>
and a shortcut on desktop to the settings app
<DocScrutinizer05>
and I hope yu already went to CSSU
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's mandatory to fix a few nasty little bugs in stock fremantle
<wpwrak>
i installed rootsh and cracked the lock code. then i ran into the sms problem :(
<DocScrutinizer05>
aaah, I remember
<DocScrutinizer05>
though not the SMS problem
<DocScrutinizer05>
aah yes, that too
<DocScrutinizer05>
weird
<DocScrutinizer05>
could you please ask here?
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<DocScrutinizer05>
(or maybe even in #maemo)
<DocScrutinizer05>
the problem was? not able to *send* SMS? or no SMS at all?
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<DocScrutinizer05>
I recall a 20 some years ago yozu had to enter phone number of SMS dispatcher service manually when setting up your new mobile phone. Eventually that vanished since all SIM cards come with the correct number preconfigured. Maybe yours has a wrong number, or an "unusual" data structure so the N900 modem can't find the number on the card?
<DocScrutinizer05>
common "errors" on SMS and phone numbers are: no complete number incl national prefix, or - even worse - national prefix is there but without leading "00" or "+"
<DocScrutinizer05>
particularly the latter seems a very possible cause for issues with SMS sending
<DocScrutinizer05>
GSM needs a different header bit set to tell the network if the number has a "+" or not
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<DocScrutinizer05>
maybe the N900 BB5 modem never got tested for one of both alternative formats, either "+" or "00"
<DocScrutinizer05>
or your card is using neither of both formats and has a bit set telling the network "this is a complete number but without national prefix indicator (+ or 00)" and BB5 doesn't expect to see such thing aka doesn't check for that bit/flag set
<DocScrutinizer05>
anyway please check what's the SMS exchange number of your service provider and enter that manually to N900 in settings-phone
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<DocScrutinizer05>
oops sorry, number of SMS exchange is in conversations menu
<DocScrutinizer05>
not in settings-phone
<DocScrutinizer05>
it has options "from SIM" | "manual (user defined)"
<DocScrutinizer05>
wow, 77 users
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