<lain> my understanding is they didn't get enough players to justify working on it any longer
<awygle> it's weird that they spent 6 years working on it, never let it out of beta, and then decided "whoops not enough players"
* awygle has the wiki page open
<lain> oh wow it was six years?
<lain> did not realize that
<awygle> oh these are the Dungeon Fighter Online devs, i loved that game
<lain> the game was really enjoyable imho
<lain> and the community was really fun
<lain> a lot of FPSes are plagued with toxic communities
<awygle> that sounds great, although it may have just been because it was small
<awygle> large communities nearly invariably suck
<lain> yeah
* awygle wishes he could play MOBAs
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<pie__> i cant commit to not sucking at a moba lol
<awygle> the problem with mobas, as with, oh, everything else, is people
<rqou> i noticed that RuneScape somehow managed to get less toxic over the years
<rqou> because all the elementary schoolers grew up :P
<awygle> i would play enough to get good if i didn't hit level 10 in league and get dumped into "competitive" play
<pie__> iirc cant you disable that / just not play on competitive?
<pie__> ah but that doesnt up your rank or something
* pie__ scratches head
<pie__> nt sure how youd even reconcile that
<pie__> im assuming you mean you want to play with better players?
<pie__> ok my eyes somehow skimmed over the "get good" part
<awygle> i thought league forced competitive after 10
<awygle> maybe i'm wrong
<awygle> apparently somewhere between 700 pages and 1300 pages OneNote decides "screw this, i'm not dealing with your comically large PDFs" and just stops trying to store/OCR them.
<awygle> does anyone know of a good not-vendor-locked OCR+full-text search solution?
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<rqou> or is this some other more mundane thing?
<pie__> didnt she...have a sem?
<pie__> mmmm vacuum
<pie__> maybe im thinking of someone else
<lain> she had a mass spec.
<lain> though iirc it was in bits
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<pie__> azonenberg, is any part of tye decapsulation/sample prep/etc part of the chip imaging process dangerous to the imaging apparatus?
<pie__> i mean is there anything a noob needs to pay attention to
<pie__> *for a SEM or whatever
<pie__> obviously one will neutralize their sample after decapping it, etc
<pie__> (bust a cap yo)
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<azonenberg> pie__: as long as you dont leave acid residue on the specimen
<azonenberg> the other big gotcha, which applies to any tiny sample
<azonenberg> is to make sure it's physically secure to the mounting stub
<azonenberg> If it falls off it can get sucked into the vacuum system and wreck turbopump blades etc
<azonenberg> standard carbon tape and such is adequate for this
<pie__> D:
<azonenberg> In general the main hazards to both the sample and operator are in the decap process
<pie__> oh god
<pie__> that sounds horrible
<azonenberg> (the falling off part is especially important in a dual-beam instrument where you often have the sample at a 52-degree tilt rather than horizontal)
<awygle> turbopumps: the worst?
<azonenberg> turbopumps are great, until something touches them
<awygle> "Don't drop the sample into the turbopumps... Or drop anything else into the turbopumps... Or sneeze on the turbopumps... Or breathe on them... Or look at them..."
<awygle> turbopumps make me very nervous is what I'm saying
<azonenberg> lol
<azonenberg> at least they only cost $10K to fix when you drop something in them
<azonenberg> (or break vacuum)
<azonenberg> rather than the old oil diffusion pumps which could spray oil everywhere and/or catch fire
<azonenberg> if you break vacuum on one of those, god help you
<awygle> true, flames are bad, and spinning shards of metal usually stay mostly in the housing lol
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<pie__> D:
<pie__> i read anything and just want only dry vacuum tech
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<rqou> azonenberg: ping
<whitequark> azonenberg: thats really overstating it
<whitequark> breaking vacuum on a modern (i.e. 90s or newer) turbopump merely reduces bearing life
<azonenberg> 64 bytes from azonenberg: icmp_seq=0, ttl=64, time=35 s
<whitequark> and not even by that much
<rqou> lol azonenberg
<rqou> aaanyways
<whitequark> also I bought turbopumps for FAR less than $10k :P
<azonenberg> whitequark: the bigger issue is things falling into them
<whitequark> yes thats true
<azonenberg> that's like insta-kill iirc
<whitequark> not *necessarily*
<whitequark> there are inlet screens
<azonenberg> Yeah, which help...
<azonenberg> But best to avoid :p
<rqou> azonenberg: do you remember robert baruch asking about PAL support for yosys?
<azonenberg> Vaguely
<whitequark> I'm not actually sure what will happen if you drop something like a 1x1mm die into a turbopump
<azonenberg> what, are you gonna / did he implement it?
<rqou> anyways, i was thinking that that would involve things like figuring out how to automatically partition things into multiple macrocells
<rqou> and trying to find the best placement, etc, etc
<rqou> but today i had a chat with my father and asked him how the PAL tools _actually_ worked back in the day
<rqou> and apparently they couldn't do any of these things
<rqou> :P
<azonenberg> lol
<azonenberg> So what you're saying is, our tool (when we build it) will be better than the OEM one?
<azonenberg> Surprise surprise
<rqou> so now i'm thinking a MVP for PAL support might just be "you have to manually partition the design, and then it will tell you if it fit or not"
<rqou> which won't be any worse than the tools from the era
<azonenberg> Lol i guess
<rqou> and doesn't require a dos emulator or anything
<rqou> also, buried macrocells on a PAL block the corresponding IO pin anyways
<rqou> so people back then didn't _want_ the tool to auto-split macrocells
<rqou> you can always add more smarts later
<rqou> what do you think?
<azonenberg> lol
<azonenberg> i mean, i have zero interest in pals
<rqou> beats having to mess around with wincupl/palasm :P
<rqou> so azonenberg
<rqou> since abc is a giant mess and i'm having trouble figuring out what to do with XORs
<rqou> what do you think about cleaning up extract_tff for synthesis?
<azonenberg> i'm all for that
<rqou> also, apparently @nanographs has identified the thing in jeri's photo and apparently she has actually acquired a sem
<azonenberg> nice
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<rqou> i want an industrial dumpling machine :P
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<pie__> oh no
<pie__> now im hungry
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* jn__ should eat some real™ chinese food someday
<rqou> come visit me :P
<pie__> party at rqou 's house
<pie__> make sure youre taking a swig of ethanol and not the HCl
<pie__> ;P
<jn__> heh :>
<jn__> but that requires travelling
<pie__> oh come on
<pie__> i know you go outside sometimes
<pie__> i do too
<pie__> :PP
<rqou> come visit the united states of NRA :P :P
<rqou> that's not really a good endorsement is it? :P
<pie__> there are worse endorsements i think
<pie__> not every gun nut is a mass murderer
<pie__> in fact id probably conjecture that mass murderers arent generally gun nuts
<pie__> but actually im being beside the point
<pie__> oops
<pie__> triggered
<pie__> (ha. ha. ha.)
* pie__ also isnt actually a gun nut...
<openfpga-github> [yosys] rqou pushed 74 new commits to for_clifford: https://git.io/vxKtm
<openfpga-github> yosys/for_clifford 8a1d6cc Clifford Wolf: Add DFSM generator to verific SVA importer...
<openfpga-github> yosys/for_clifford 15902d4 Clifford Wolf: Continue refactoring of Verific SVA importer code...
<openfpga-github> yosys/for_clifford 25e33d7 Clifford Wolf: Major redesign of Verific SVA importer...
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<rqou> now it's sleep time
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<jn__> yay, blinky
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<pie__> blinky-chan
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<RaivisR> whitequark, this is really helpful - https://lab.whitequark.org/notes/2017-11-08/accessing-intel-ich-pch-gpios/, thank you
<whitequark> ha, you're welcome
<whitequark> linux did something recently that makes it harder to do this
<whitequark> you have to rebuild the kernel
<RaivisR> lemme see if what i have here needs any messing around with kernel or not
<felix_> iirc for low-level hardware access via /dev/mem you don't need to rebuild the kernel; adding iomem=relaxed to the kernel parameters should be sufficient
<whitequark> oh!
<whitequark> thanks, that will be useful
<RaivisR> i assume i should be able to unhide 1f.f1 using setpci, using on of intel modes?
<RaivisR> *one
<RaivisR> or not..
<whitequark> well
<whitequark> yes you could
<whitequark> but you mustn't enumerate it
<RaivisR> i think i know base address without poking any hidden pci devices..
<whitequark> how so?
<RaivisR> from vendor software config :)
<RaivisR> does 0xFDAE0000 look like reasonable base address for sbreg_bar?
<whitequark> as good as any
<whitequark> seems high enough
<RaivisR> everything is ffffffff is i plug that in, something is not right
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<mithro> morning!
<mithro> daveshah: ping?
<daveshah> mithro: morning
<awygle> morning all. congrats on functional blinky, rqou
<mithro> tinyfpga: ping?
<mithro> rqou: Functional blinky - awesome work!
<mithro> rqou: Soooo -- how do I get a coolrunner board that will work with your stuff?
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<rqou> morning all
<rqou> mithro: unfortunately, if you want a board, you're kinda screwed :P
<rqou> i don't know of any good xc2c32a boards
<rqou> as for the one in the video, there's only three of them ever
<mithro> I didn't say "good" :-)
<rqou> azonenberg has one, diamondman has one, and i have the third one
<rqou> ok, i don't really know of any xc2c32a dev boards at all
<rqou> mithro: yell at azonenberg to acquire the xc2c64a data in a legal way
<rqou> those boards "happen to be very popular" :P
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<rqou> azonenberg azonenberg_work: consider making a "new" xc2 dev board? :P
<rqou> and make more than 3 this time? :P
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<balrog> I see both kinds on eBay for <$10
<balrog> (Or the whereabouts)
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<rqou> balrog: most of those don't have on-board JTAG
<balrog> So you need a Xilinx compatible JTAG pod?
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<rqou> or an azonenberg jtaghal compatible one
<balrog> Ah...
<rqou> or (if you go in an extremely roundabout way) an openocd compatible one
<rqou> but that still requires ISE
<awygle> grab a whatever-compatible one, add support to libjtaghal, profit
<rqou> sure, have fun
<rqou> that code hasn't been written yet of course
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<awygle> anybody have a smaller-than-SO-8 flash chip recommendation?
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<awygle> huh, lattice publishes a table of bitstream sizes in their programming note, you can see at a glance what chips are the same size as other chips
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<rqou> oh wtf, afaict emscripten will completely crap out with a useless error if your modules ever end up >256MB in any intermediate stages
<rqou> this is apparently because this is the string size limit in nodejs
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<lain> have they heard of arrays
<rqou> yeah, 256MB ones :P
<rqou> ah, it appears if you use node v9 it works
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<rqou> ZOMGWTFBBQ
<rqou> anybody want to be really upset today?
<rqou> grep the abc source code for ABC_MEMALIGN
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<qu1j0t3> i don't want to eb really upset. do you have anything for calming down
<rqou> awygle: fun exercise for you: ubsan abc
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<awygle> rqou: hard pass
<rqou> lol why? :P
<qu1j0t3> :)
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