<lain>
my understanding is they didn't get enough players to justify working on it any longer
<awygle>
it's weird that they spent 6 years working on it, never let it out of beta, and then decided "whoops not enough players"
* awygle
has the wiki page open
<lain>
oh wow it was six years?
<lain>
did not realize that
<awygle>
oh these are the Dungeon Fighter Online devs, i loved that game
<lain>
the game was really enjoyable imho
<lain>
and the community was really fun
<lain>
a lot of FPSes are plagued with toxic communities
<awygle>
that sounds great, although it may have just been because it was small
<awygle>
large communities nearly invariably suck
<lain>
yeah
* awygle
wishes he could play MOBAs
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<pie__>
i cant commit to not sucking at a moba lol
<awygle>
the problem with mobas, as with, oh, everything else, is people
<rqou>
i noticed that RuneScape somehow managed to get less toxic over the years
<rqou>
because all the elementary schoolers grew up :P
<awygle>
i would play enough to get good if i didn't hit level 10 in league and get dumped into "competitive" play
<pie__>
iirc cant you disable that / just not play on competitive?
<pie__>
ah but that doesnt up your rank or something
* pie__
scratches head
<pie__>
nt sure how youd even reconcile that
<pie__>
im assuming you mean you want to play with better players?
<pie__>
ok my eyes somehow skimmed over the "get good" part
<awygle>
i thought league forced competitive after 10
<awygle>
maybe i'm wrong
<awygle>
apparently somewhere between 700 pages and 1300 pages OneNote decides "screw this, i'm not dealing with your comically large PDFs" and just stops trying to store/OCR them.
<awygle>
does anyone know of a good not-vendor-locked OCR+full-text search solution?
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<pie__>
azonenberg, is any part of tye decapsulation/sample prep/etc part of the chip imaging process dangerous to the imaging apparatus?
<pie__>
i mean is there anything a noob needs to pay attention to
<pie__>
*for a SEM or whatever
<pie__>
obviously one will neutralize their sample after decapping it, etc
<pie__>
(bust a cap yo)
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<azonenberg>
pie__: as long as you dont leave acid residue on the specimen
<azonenberg>
the other big gotcha, which applies to any tiny sample
<azonenberg>
is to make sure it's physically secure to the mounting stub
<azonenberg>
If it falls off it can get sucked into the vacuum system and wreck turbopump blades etc
<azonenberg>
standard carbon tape and such is adequate for this
<pie__>
D:
<azonenberg>
In general the main hazards to both the sample and operator are in the decap process
<pie__>
oh god
<pie__>
that sounds horrible
<azonenberg>
(the falling off part is especially important in a dual-beam instrument where you often have the sample at a 52-degree tilt rather than horizontal)
<awygle>
turbopumps: the worst?
<azonenberg>
turbopumps are great, until something touches them
<awygle>
"Don't drop the sample into the turbopumps... Or drop anything else into the turbopumps... Or sneeze on the turbopumps... Or breathe on them... Or look at them..."
<awygle>
turbopumps make me very nervous is what I'm saying
<azonenberg>
lol
<azonenberg>
at least they only cost $10K to fix when you drop something in them
<azonenberg>
(or break vacuum)
<azonenberg>
rather than the old oil diffusion pumps which could spray oil everywhere and/or catch fire
<azonenberg>
if you break vacuum on one of those, god help you
<awygle>
true, flames are bad, and spinning shards of metal usually stay mostly in the housing lol
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<pie__>
D:
<pie__>
i read anything and just want only dry vacuum tech
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<rqou>
azonenberg: ping
<whitequark>
azonenberg: thats really overstating it
<whitequark>
breaking vacuum on a modern (i.e. 90s or newer) turbopump merely reduces bearing life
<azonenberg>
64 bytes from azonenberg: icmp_seq=0, ttl=64, time=35 s
<whitequark>
and not even by that much
<rqou>
lol azonenberg
<rqou>
aaanyways
<whitequark>
also I bought turbopumps for FAR less than $10k :P
<azonenberg>
whitequark: the bigger issue is things falling into them
<whitequark>
yes thats true
<azonenberg>
that's like insta-kill iirc
<whitequark>
not *necessarily*
<whitequark>
there are inlet screens
<azonenberg>
Yeah, which help...
<azonenberg>
But best to avoid :p
<rqou>
azonenberg: do you remember robert baruch asking about PAL support for yosys?
<azonenberg>
Vaguely
<whitequark>
I'm not actually sure what will happen if you drop something like a 1x1mm die into a turbopump
<azonenberg>
what, are you gonna / did he implement it?
<rqou>
anyways, i was thinking that that would involve things like figuring out how to automatically partition things into multiple macrocells
<rqou>
and trying to find the best placement, etc, etc
<rqou>
but today i had a chat with my father and asked him how the PAL tools _actually_ worked back in the day
<rqou>
and apparently they couldn't do any of these things
<rqou>
:P
<azonenberg>
lol
<azonenberg>
So what you're saying is, our tool (when we build it) will be better than the OEM one?
<azonenberg>
Surprise surprise
<rqou>
so now i'm thinking a MVP for PAL support might just be "you have to manually partition the design, and then it will tell you if it fit or not"
<rqou>
which won't be any worse than the tools from the era
<azonenberg>
Lol i guess
<rqou>
and doesn't require a dos emulator or anything
<rqou>
also, buried macrocells on a PAL block the corresponding IO pin anyways
<rqou>
so people back then didn't _want_ the tool to auto-split macrocells
<rqou>
you can always add more smarts later
<rqou>
what do you think?
<azonenberg>
lol
<azonenberg>
i mean, i have zero interest in pals
<rqou>
beats having to mess around with wincupl/palasm :P
<rqou>
so azonenberg
<rqou>
since abc is a giant mess and i'm having trouble figuring out what to do with XORs
<rqou>
what do you think about cleaning up extract_tff for synthesis?
<azonenberg>
i'm all for that
<rqou>
also, apparently @nanographs has identified the thing in jeri's photo and apparently she has actually acquired a sem
<azonenberg>
nice
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<whitequark>
linux did something recently that makes it harder to do this
<whitequark>
you have to rebuild the kernel
<RaivisR>
lemme see if what i have here needs any messing around with kernel or not
<felix_>
iirc for low-level hardware access via /dev/mem you don't need to rebuild the kernel; adding iomem=relaxed to the kernel parameters should be sufficient
<whitequark>
oh!
<whitequark>
thanks, that will be useful
<RaivisR>
i assume i should be able to unhide 1f.f1 using setpci, using on of intel modes?
<RaivisR>
*one
<RaivisR>
or not..
<whitequark>
well
<whitequark>
yes you could
<whitequark>
but you mustn't enumerate it
<RaivisR>
i think i know base address without poking any hidden pci devices..
<whitequark>
how so?
<RaivisR>
from vendor software config :)
<RaivisR>
does 0xFDAE0000 look like reasonable base address for sbreg_bar?
<whitequark>
as good as any
<whitequark>
seems high enough
<RaivisR>
everything is ffffffff is i plug that in, something is not right
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<mithro>
morning!
<mithro>
daveshah: ping?
<daveshah>
mithro: morning
<awygle>
morning all. congrats on functional blinky, rqou
<mithro>
tinyfpga: ping?
<mithro>
rqou: Functional blinky - awesome work!
<mithro>
rqou: Soooo -- how do I get a coolrunner board that will work with your stuff?
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<rqou>
morning all
<rqou>
mithro: unfortunately, if you want a board, you're kinda screwed :P
<rqou>
i don't know of any good xc2c32a boards
<rqou>
as for the one in the video, there's only three of them ever
<mithro>
I didn't say "good" :-)
<rqou>
azonenberg has one, diamondman has one, and i have the third one
<rqou>
ok, i don't really know of any xc2c32a dev boards at all
<rqou>
mithro: yell at azonenberg to acquire the xc2c64a data in a legal way
<rqou>
those boards "happen to be very popular" :P
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<rqou>
azonenberg azonenberg_work: consider making a "new" xc2 dev board? :P
<rqou>
and make more than 3 this time? :P
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<balrog>
I see both kinds on eBay for <$10
<balrog>
(Or the whereabouts)
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<rqou>
balrog: most of those don't have on-board JTAG
<balrog>
So you need a Xilinx compatible JTAG pod?
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<rqou>
or an azonenberg jtaghal compatible one
<balrog>
Ah...
<rqou>
or (if you go in an extremely roundabout way) an openocd compatible one
<rqou>
but that still requires ISE
<awygle>
grab a whatever-compatible one, add support to libjtaghal, profit
<rqou>
sure, have fun
<rqou>
that code hasn't been written yet of course
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<awygle>
anybody have a smaller-than-SO-8 flash chip recommendation?
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<awygle>
huh, lattice publishes a table of bitstream sizes in their programming note, you can see at a glance what chips are the same size as other chips
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<rqou>
oh wtf, afaict emscripten will completely crap out with a useless error if your modules ever end up >256MB in any intermediate stages
<rqou>
this is apparently because this is the string size limit in nodejs