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<digshadow> azonenberg: meeting lekernel for dinner tomorrow
<digshadow> has he been involved with openfpga stuff at all?
<rqou> wait, what is the context for this?
<rqou> can i somehow join in?
<rqou> (also, idk if azonenberg is back from vacation yet)
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<awygle> is BLIF like... isometric to RTLIL?
<awygle> is there a bijection between the two?
<rqou> i don't think so?
<rqou> afaik BLIF can represent arbitrary netlists, whereas RTLIL only has a very specific set of cells
<awygle> hm. gotta read more.
<rqou> afaik RTLIL isn't a file format at all
<rqou> it's just an in-memory representation
<awygle> it's amazing to me how different people's styles of writing C++ can be
<rqou> yeah, clifford's and azonenberg's feel totally different
<awygle> neither clifford's nor cseed's are much like mine. i've only lightly worked with azonenberg's but it seems a closer dialect
<rqou> this is the problem with using only the "good subset" of C++ is that everybody's subset is different
<awygle> even when you get past functional differences you have "using namespace", macros like YOSYS_NAMESPACE_BEGIN, brace styles... all this little stuff that i _know_ what it's saying but it takes a brain cycle to do the translation every time
<rqou> what are you doing with yosys?
<awygle> thinking about inputs to and working data structures for a placement tool
<rqou> shouldn't you be looking at VPR/arachne?
<rqou> (i've never looked into either)
<awygle> arachne eats BLIF, and while i agree with most of its data structures i don't like their implementations in most cases
<awygle> lots of parallel containers with indexes to go between them... it's kind of hard to explain
<awygle> also this crazy thing called a BasedVector which is a template class where one of the parameters is the starting index
<awygle> so you can make an array that starts from 1 :P
<rqou> yeah that's kinda weird
<rqou> although in my rust code i like using lots of indices
<rqou> makes lifetime management much easier
<awygle> VPR does some stuff. i think the most interesting thing about it is the XML architecture file. i was looking at yosys just to see what's there, understand the internal representation, maybe reuse something or at least reduce impedance mismatch
<awygle> yeah but you try to hide that from _users_ presumably
<rqou> fortunately rust has really good generics
<rqou> so you can make your indices all strongly typed
<rqou> also, i personally would read yosys's json format rather than blif
<awygle> also something i'm looking at, yeah
<awygle> tbh i'm more interested in the internal data structures than the interchange format
<rqou> yeah, that part of yosys is a little bit opaque
<rqou> json is pretty close though
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<awygle> "As of this writing a Yosys VHDL frontend is in development." >_> <_<
<rqou> it is?
<awygle> because absolutely nobody dates anything ever, i have no idea when "as of this writing" is. it looks like a loooooooong time ago
<rqou> i mean, i am working on one
<rqou> it's kinda stalled out due to too many projects
<awygle> yeah i saw, yavhdl or whatever right? basically got a parser and stalled out on semantic analysis?
<rqou> yup, because it took months to even understand what semantic analysis needed to do
<awygle> RTLIL does have a text format, it's referred to as "ILANG" in some of the docs
<rqou> oh yeah that
<awygle> for serious, why are memories treated as so different than vectors. they are so obviously "the same except more than once".
<rqou> they are?
<rqou> feel free to write a desugaring pass?
<rqou> i think there already is one
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<andry> Help
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<pie__> awygle_m, well brace style is something that you could transparently rewrite
<pie__> i mean i know thats just one thing
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<awygle_m> It's not a serious complaint really, just something I'm constantly surprised by
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<awygle_m> clang-format is a beautiful thing though don't get me wrong
<pie__> awygle_m, oh didnt know thats a thing
<pie__> @ clang-format
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<awygle_m> What do you usually use?
<pie__> nothing
<pie__> >_>
<pie__> i dont code enough lol
<pie__> but noted for later
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<pie__> theres really only one thing i dislike about attempting to fix laptops
<pie__> all the screwing
<rqou> better than plastic clips :P
<awygle_m> I am not very mechanically inclined but I find they never seem to go back together as solidly as before I open them
<pie__> thats also a thing
<pie__> also all the differnt types of screws and the one (two :P) you accidentally leave out
<pie__> but i htink i solved that this time because i had some of those chinese compartmentalized electronics parts boxes laying around
<pie__> kept notes as i went
<pie__> we'll see how it goes lol
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<pie__> though i might just call my friend and asks if he wants me to even bother trying to put it back together since i got the data off and cant otherwise fix it
<pie__> crap i just noticed that model is off by a letter though...
<pie__> i mean maybe it would fit the machine but heck knows
<pie__> ^ wrong chan sort of
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<qu1j0t3> yeah laptop work requires patience and discipline, lol
<qu1j0t3> i'm not temperamentally suited, but if i do it, i use it as a patience drill
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<pie__> that feeling when youre trying to pull it apart and cant tell if clip or you left a screw in somewhere
<pie__> i should have almost broken something several times
<qu1j0t3> i did an LCD replacement on a 2006 iMac once. that's about the same as laptop work haha
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