<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: nothing we didn't predict, did we ? :)
<wolfspraul>
hundreds of Nokia staff updating their linkedin profiles?
<wolfspraul>
distributors reallocating marketing resources to android?
<DocScrutinizer>
prolly
<wolfspraul>
employees checking which dates they need to reach to be entitled to certain benefits?
<wpwrak>
people considering symbian as "dead". and nokia has neither iphone nor android to offer, so they don't buy nokia smartphones.
<wolfspraul>
and what does it mean to meego? probably there is so much chaos inside nokia now that nothing comprehensive can come out anywhere :-)
<wolfspraul>
I was thinking about meeting with some Nokia execs I could get in touch with here in Beijing, but pushing it away for months.
<wolfspraul>
too much chaos there I feel, but maybe eventually I should still try...
<wolfspraul>
what we are doing would just be another distraction for Nokia right now
<wolfspraul>
I think they first have to plain survive
<wpwrak>
considering that MS make several dollars per android sold, i wonder if their "help" for nokia wasn't just a move to kill them more quickly, so that they don't disturb the profitable android ipr business
<DocScrutinizer>
>>I can't believe no-one's taken a pot shot at Elop yet<<Â Â [<-- Nokian]
<wpwrak>
the finns are generally nice and quiet people ...
<DocScrutinizer>
wpwrak: you're not the first one to think this
<DocScrutinizer>
seen a picture where balmer and elop shake hands, and somebody made elop say "mission accomplished"
<mth>
wpwrak: they're getting paid for Android phones by HTC, not for all Android phones (although they'll certainly try)
<wpwrak>
not "bwahahaha" ? ;-)
<wolfspraul>
yes but what does it mean for meego?
<wolfspraul>
are there any meego people that want to branch out and try to reboot in a startup outside?
<wpwrak>
mth: yup. was on heise recently. USD 5 per unit. even more from non-HTC, it seems.
<DocScrutinizer>
efectively nokia binned meego
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: presumably, there are
<wolfspraul>
or they are all clinging to their comfy nokia positions as long as possible...
<DocScrutinizer>
there's no make-a-living in meego handset UX
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: intel money ?
<DocScrutinizer>
Elop came from M$ and said "bend over, Nokia!", and Nokia asked "how far?"
<DocScrutinizer>
wpwrak: that's what I'm at atm
<DocScrutinizer>
they need a platform, before meego handset UX has *any* future
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: (how far) do you really think they even talked back to them ? :)
<wpwrak>
grmbl. qi-hw list traffic for may at an all-time low. well, it can only get better ;-)
<mth>
maybe if Intel really wants to see an x86 phone they'll pay for that
<DocScrutinizer>
wpwrak: and Intel isn't directly involved or interested in meego HS-UX, as they don't sell phones
<mth>
if iOS and Android can be retrofitted from phone UI to phone + tablet UI, maybe MeeGo can go in the opposite direction?
<mth>
although going from less to more screen space is easier
<DocScrutinizer>
mth: that's my idea - Intel sponsoring development of a new open platform to build meego HSUX on it, then eventually they easily port to x86 and sell their crappy processors to phone manufs
<mth>
MeeGo is already running on both ARM and x86, isn't it?
<DocScrutinizer>
it's running on X86 tablets - the tablet UX
<DocScrutinizer>
it's not really running on ARM N900
<mth>
more like crawling?
<DocScrutinizer>
and they are running short of N900s ;-D
<DocScrutinizer>
and no more support from Nokia
<DocScrutinizer>
not really
<DocScrutinizer>
as in "we insist on keeping battery management entity a closed blob"
<mth>
ah
<DocScrutinizer>
and last thing rumour has is the promised "meego device" actually is yet another maemo device, though crippled to look like it was meego
<DocScrutinizer>
aiui they want to call it "meego harmattan "Hybrid Edition" - and there's been hassle as they weren't allowed to use meego(R) for that
<DocScrutinizer>
</rumour>
<mth>
I'm wondering if I should buy one before it's no longer available or avoid it since it won't ever be properly supported
<DocScrutinizer>
N900?
<mth>
yes, or the new device
<DocScrutinizer>
it's a great hw, and maemo works reasonably well on it
<DocScrutinizer>
the "new device" seems to be a capacitive touchscreen one, and quality of hw kbd is still questionable
<mth>
I earn my salary with iOS, but it's too closed to buy for myself and jailbreaking is too much hassle with updates
<DocScrutinizer>
has a certain coolness factor anyway, but I probably don't like it
<DocScrutinizer>
esp with this "meego" on it
<mth>
I'm used to capacitive screens from Apple, the only problem is fingerprints
<wpwrak>
mth: wear gloves ! ;-)
<DocScrutinizer>
muhahaha
<mth>
it will have to be special gloves or it won't recognise the touches
<DocScrutinizer>
well, FCC disclose scheduled for 26th
<DocScrutinizer>
so we'll probably hear sth from nokia prior to that date
<DocScrutinizer>
a nokia tweet announced "something" for today
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: elop retires ? ;)
<DocScrutinizer>
I#m afraid he won't
<mth>
I'm not in a hurry, I've still got a monochrome phone that does very little except calling and SMS, but after a battery replacement it lasts a week on a charge
<wpwrak>
why not ? the damage is pretty much done. you don't have to stay aboard to watch the ship sink. much nicer to do this from the beach of a nearby island ...
<wpwrak>
mth: the batteries are what i'll miss most about nokia ... you could get them anywhere, and they're nicely compatible with so many other things ...
<DocScrutinizer>
agreed, but you might want to make sure there's no new life coming up e.g from the small but vivid maemo/meego department
<DocScrutinizer>
hell, Nokians even appear on community channels and dare to talk about Elop pot shot and gamble with testing limits of their NDA
<wpwrak>
naw, even better to let them try to save the crashing misery and burn out in the process. they'd be much more dangerous with all the ballast.
<wpwrak>
s/with/without/
<DocScrutinizer>
starting to get involved into maemo(!) community seamless software update, the community driven successor of Nokia's maemo repository
<DocScrutinizer>
an unheard thin to happen with a Nokian kerneldev to date
<DocScrutinizer>
thing*
<DocScrutinizer>
and he agreed with me 100% about evil concept of polling in recent developments "upstream"
<whitequark>
the thingy to desolder all those 0402 SMD passive elements
<DocScrutinizer>
exactly
<DocScrutinizer>
mere fun
<whitequark>
I prefer more... compact way
<whitequark>
just touch them with a side of iron
<whitequark>
and use plain tweezers
<whitequark>
works like a charm
<DocScrutinizer>
works as long as you have "free air"
<whitequark>
hm, right
<DocScrutinizer>
otherwise you easily desolder half your device at one time
<whitequark>
well, I never actually worked with elements less than 0805, 'cause the only shop I know which sells them from one part has a price tag of $0.3 per one
<whitequark>
and that turns into a lot for even a small board
<DocScrutinizer>
hehe
<whitequark>
0805 are quite common and are easily bought in any quantities for nothing
<vladkorotnev>
hello everyone
<whitequark>
vlad, hi
<DocScrutinizer>
I got a whole "book" of beads, and one of R, if you're interested ;-)
<Jay7>
kyak: looking on russian keyboard in news :)
<vladkorotnev>
could anyone please help me with compiling a package?
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer: I wonder if there is some chinese supplier which sells a package of 20x each of E14 series
<Jay7>
kyak: imho phonetic layout may be easier to use
<vladkorotnev>
it fails with "mipsel-openwrt-linux-uclibc-ar: illegal option -- n"
<DocScrutinizer>
dunno, I guess the one I got is probably original chinese
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer: I've seen those things for 0805 here
<DocScrutinizer>
lemme have a look
<DocScrutinizer>
NOVA comp-card-system
<DocScrutinizer>
whitequark: ^^^
<whitequark>
hm, .de
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer: that's just a box, right? (Yes, it's a very good box, through, but I've already found one...)
<whitequark>
so that will be easy, through quite expensive at all
<DocScrutinizer>
sending an N900 from Nokia to paul fertser turned out to be a mission impossible, finally ru customs asked for more monney to *proceed* the package than the whole device been worth
<Jay7>
hehe
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer: iirc N900 costs more than 10000 RUR, and there is some stupid customs limit in that order
<Jay7>
it's always safer to use some relative
<DocScrutinizer>
after DHL returned the package in warshaw or somewhere as they noticed the addr as given in accordance to what helsinki DHL said it has to look like wasn't "deliverable" - ""no pkg delivery to private person, only to companies""
<whitequark>
I've only used airmail to date, and it was fine, through _extremely_ slow
<Jay7>
whitequark: now that limit is raised
<DocScrutinizer>
Paul gave addr of his university or sth, and in Warshaw they noticed that's not good enough
<Jay7>
iirc, about $1000
<Jay7>
DocScrutinizer: DHL is courier delivery, they have other law :)
<whitequark>
because of that, ebaytoday even recommends lying in the customs declaration (not to mention they explicitly recommend _not_ to write that apple products are inside, because the package might get stolen otherwise)
<DocScrutinizer>
and stupid Nokia was unable to send any other way than DHL :-/
<DocScrutinizer>
My suggestion to send the device to me and I'll forward it didn't fly for some odd reason
<DocScrutinizer>
I think finally Paul got a used devel device from another developer in Moskow, and the Nokia-sent N900 probably vanished at customs :-P
<DocScrutinizer>
darn, that has cost me some weeks of my life
<Jay7>
DocScrutinizer: imagine what does it cost for people here..
<DocScrutinizer>
probably worse an experience than all the TI OMAP3430 datasheet studying ;-P
<DocScrutinizer>
but it resulted in N900 h-e-n usb-hostmode finally, one way or the other
<DocScrutinizer>
so maybe been worth it
<Jay7>
hm..
<Jay7>
I definitely should provide some info on my site about jay-tech.de...
<Jay7>
have site jay-tech.ru
<Jay7>
some people with jay-tech's products are going to my site to ask some questions :)
<DocScrutinizer>
related to jay-7ech ? ;-)
<Jay7>
DocScrutinizer: yeah :)
<Jay7>
my nickname in RusNet is Jay w/o 7 :)
<Jay7>
so that's my tech ;)
<DocScrutinizer>
what's about that site?
<Jay7>
IT for SOHO business
<Jay7>
consulting/solutions/etc
<DocScrutinizer>
mhm
<DocScrutinizer>
sounds strangely familiar
<DocScrutinizer>
I couldn't have run into jay-tech.de incidentally
<Jay7>
jay-tech.de producing some devices like cameras and netbooks
<Jay7>
I've two calls one time about netbook problems :)
<DocScrutinizer>
though I think I've seen products like cameras labeled jay-tech
<Jay7>
jay-tech's production is very popular because of germany duty-free :)
<Jay7>
they are cheap there
<DocScrutinizer>
yeah, dirt cheap
<Jay7>
but after all they have no support out of germany
<DocScrutinizer>
that's what I think I recall about jay-tech products
<DocScrutinizer>
cheap silver plastic
<DocScrutinizer>
"video camera" with 128MB storage, things like this
<DocScrutinizer>
the stuff the advertise at homeshopping TV channels, at 3'o in the night
<Jay7>
:)
<whitequark>
has just got to fix USB-SATA enclosure bought in Britain: a pad for the SATA connector was missing completely
<whitequark>
and there ever was a Q.C.Passed label
<DocScrutinizer>
LL
<DocScrutinizer>
LOL
<DocScrutinizer>
needs to vacuum his kbd :-S
<whitequark>
ah yes, they've "fixed" it
<whitequark>
with a thing I overlooked as a solder bridge
<whitequark>
a week ago I've seen a chinese hard drive enclosure. they've put in a small package with four screws, and even a small screwdriver
<whitequark>
now the fun part: the case was made in a way which completely prevented access to the mounting holes
<whitequark>
i.e. it was composed of two parts glued together nicely, one in another, and the inner one had the holes.
<kyak>
Jay7: heh, in fact, this (cyrillic layout) has been implemented months ago :) I just made a nice picture of keyboard in recent days
<kyak>
Jay7: and yeah, i've been thinking about phonetic layout for quite some time now, just didn't lay my hands on it yet :)
<kyak>
phonetic layout or engraving? :)
<Jay7>
kyak: I mean layout
<kyak>
i mean, this is what i'm thinkinh
<Jay7>
then you may live w/o engraving :)
<Jay7>
I have some xmodmap's for zaurus
<Jay7>
with phonetic layout
<kyak>
a proposal from someone who already using phonetic layout would be helpful. I mean, where exactly to put 7 (33-26) cyrillic letters.
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: hmm, i suck at electromagnetism. if I run a probe wire for a few cm in parallel to one wire of a mains cable (220 Vac, let's say Iac = 1 A), distance limited by isolation, so maybe 2 mm center to center, will i be able to pick up any perceptible energy that way ?
<whitequark>
wpwrak: once I've played with my scope and it probably picked up some voltage in range of millivolts in a similar case
<whitequark>
I'm not completely sure through, that might be caused by some other effect
<wpwrak>
whitequark: that would be a few pA then, if it was that
<wpwrak>
err no, even nA. luxury ! ;-)
<whitequark>
wpwrak: again, that sounds doubtfully for me. maybe I'm worrong.
<whitequark>
*wrong
<kyak>
xMff: hi! Did you have any luck fighting that *-dev automagic in OpenWrt?
<xMff>
kyak: not yet, got swamped with work related stuff
<kyak>
i see, the summer started good :)
<xMff>
well... sales and management demand crazy stuff
<xMff>
the usual corporate insanity
<kyak>
if my experience tells right, this is going to ramp down soon.. till the end of summer
<xMff>
;)
<kristianpaul>
"Remove the CPU microcode and see whether your BIOS will run at all." he :-)
<zear>
hey guys
<kyak>
hey zear
<heberth>
kristianpaul: que pasa con liure?
<DocScrutinizer>
wpwrak: you bet you will :-)
<DocScrutinizer>
wpwrak: e.g. it's pretty enough energy to make a LCD display operate
<kyak>
could it be?
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: oh, wow. i didn't expect it to be nearly that strong.
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: do you know how (i.e., keywords for google ;) i could find some circuit (schematics) that does things with this sort of energy harvesting ?
<DocScrutinizer>
there are those voltprobe "screwdrivers" that have a LCD instead of a gas discharge lamp. You can follow AC wires in the wall with them
<DocScrutinizer>
of course each true wirefinder does the trick with a few transistors
<DocScrutinizer>
plus batery and piezobeeper/LED
<wpwrak>
great. so they even work for wires where current goes both ways. is this still induction they use ? i thought the fields would roughly cancel each other out
<DocScrutinizer>
capacitive coupling
<DocScrutinizer>
those don't detect current, they detect voltage
<DocScrutinizer>
current of some A will detectable as well, but not with a single ended wire
<DocScrutinizer>
asymmetrics
<DocScrutinizer>
it's not exactly twisted-pair
<wpwrak>
yeah, i was thinking of inductive coupling
<DocScrutinizer>
inductive works for all asymmetric detectors, i.e. it won't help to wind a wire around the cable but you may place a coil *beneath* the cable
<DocScrutinizer>
1000BT must not run in parallel to AC wires
<DocScrutinizer>
wpwrak: if you'd elaborate after what you are exactly, I'd probably be able to help more specifically
<DocScrutinizer>
wpwrak: if you have access to a single wire, you quite usually use a coil wound on a toroid that can get opened to grip around the wire to test
<DocScrutinizer>
commonly known as "Zangen-Amperemeter"
<DocScrutinizer>
NB the toroid can be of any size, shape, and a variety of ferromagnetic materials
<DocScrutinizer>
OTOH there MUST NOT be any cables or even pipes in parallel to lighting conductor wires. And - as mentioned above - ethernet cabling mustn't run in parallel to power cables with less than 20cm distance
<DocScrutinizer>
inductive coupling is a reality ;-)
<whitequark>
there's some discussion of pulseaudio on the mailing list
<whitequark>
was someone able to start it on ben?
<DocScrutinizer>
lol, PA
<DocScrutinizer>
pukeaudio
<DocScrutinizer>
we recently found out PA << ALSA and ever was, and even fans of PA had no better argument why we need this cruft at all, other than "I like it"
<DocScrutinizer>
we found not a *single* argument/feature that would suggest PA is a better solution for any particular problem
<DocScrutinizer>
ALSa can do literally all that PA claims to do, and usually ALSA is better on it
<DocScrutinizer>
only problem of ALSA being it's been a development sponsored and driven by SuSE, and obviously not may of the other esp debian-based distros bothered to properly integrate it so it'd work OOTB without user twiddling with its setting a bit
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer: there's several things I love pulseaudio for: ability to change sound level _and_ audio sink for each application in a nice gui
<whitequark>
hm, okay, one thing.
<DocScrutinizer>
au contraire jacekowski pointed out PA forces him to do mixing in SW eating up CPU cycles for nothing, while his soundblaster audiocard is well capable of full hw mixing
<whitequark>
I consider it as an acceptable tradeoff for an ability of fine-tuning sound output
<DocScrutinizer>
and HW mixing is and even been supported by ALSA
<DocScrutinizer>
please don't get me going, just believe me there's an ALSA way to do that, since eternity
<DocScrutinizer>
for all the points you might want to rise
<DocScrutinizer>
there's softvol in ALSA
<whitequark>
I'd be really happy if someone wrote a handy tool for managing that. currently it only exists for PA, and that's why I use it
<DocScrutinizer>
there's been mixing in ALSA since 1999, though most isers thought ALSA can't do that at all
<DocScrutinizer>
can't get more handy, as it's fully ntegrated into what soundcard micer always been like
<DocScrutinizer>
mixer*
<DocScrutinizer>
so no, there's actually no tool for that, as you don't need any
<whitequark>
hm...
<whitequark>
well, okay, it is possible with alsa, fine.
<whitequark>
but I don't want to mess with scripts, I want just to move a slider and that's it
<whitequark>
why wasn't it integrated to alsamixer?
<DocScrutinizer>
and I'm away -as I'm not interested in another debate about it
<whitequark>
okay.
<DocScrutinizer>
that IS just a slider btw, the script is a run-once script to setup your system correctly
<whitequark>
so it should be run once per app?
<DocScrutinizer>
no, once per lifetime of your system
<DocScrutinizer>
then you just need to select correct audio device for your app ant that's it
<whitequark>
then it's really cool, thanks
<DocScrutinizer>
o/
<whitequark>
no more pulseaudio :)
<whitequark>
I wonder why isn't it in default alsa packages
<DocScrutinizer>
see above, there's a lot missing in ALSA OOTB config, in other than SuSE distros. This softvol config though is my baby and not even found there
<whitequark>
it definitely should be included
<DocScrutinizer>
how to use: you add the pcm.vol { } definition to your alsa config in ~/.asoundrc or /etc/asound.conf , then instead of doing e.g >> aplay -D dolby5.1 mysong.wav << you simply do >> aplay -D vol:songs,dolby5.1 <<Â Â and ALSA will create a slider "songs" showing up in all mixers, for your convenience
<whitequark>
and what if I want e.g. to use Chromium this way?
<whitequark>
or pidgin or <insert a gui app here>
<DocScrutinizer>
err missed the mysong.wav parameter in second cmd
<DocScrutinizer>
if it's a sane app it has a way to configure the audio device
<DocScrutinizer>
you simply change the audio device as described above
<whitequark>
sadly, most apps aren't
<whitequark>
maybe there is an environment var or such
<whitequark>
like ALSA_DEFAULT_DEVICE
<DocScrutinizer>
then you need to override the audiodevice that the app is using, generally "default"
<DocScrutinizer>
replace pcm.vol {Â Â by pcm.!deafult {Â Â , and instead of >>default "jOERG" << you use sth like >>default $getenv {fsckupaudioapp} << [you need to fix this, it's definitely syntactically incorrect] - then start the app via >> fsckdupaudioapp=MySliderName MyFsckdupAppBinary<< and fine you are
<whitequark>
impressive. I never knew that alsa configs are so powerful
<whitequark>
okay, I've ran your script (without twinkle stuff at bottom), then did "sox bsg_the_music.mp3 -t alsa vol:songs", and it fails with "sox FAIL formats: can't open output file `vol:songs': snd_pcm_hw_params_any error: Invalid argument"
<whitequark>
what should I also replace in generated .asoundrc?
<whitequark>
(I've just added "card 0;" line)
<DocScrutinizer>
or - way simpler:Â Â pcm.!default { slave $getenv FUrealAdio}Â Â and start the app with >> FUrealAudio=vol:MySliderName,default MyApp <<
<DocScrutinizer>
sorry I'm in a bit of a pinch, came back as I've forgotten my phone ;-D, and would like to help you later, if you just pastebin your ~/.asoundrc and terminal session c&p
<whitequark>
may I ask why do you use uclibc and not eglibc? the latter is not significantly fatter (maybe ~200k bigger), but you'll get much more compatible libc
<lunavorax_frizzl>
"Ã la mode" computing is depressing
<lunavorax_frizzl>
Smartphones, social websites, cloud computing, I really can't get used or like all of theses things. Is it wrong or what ?
<wolfspraul>
people are different I guess
<lunavorax_frizzl>
Oh, and I forgot "moder desktops"
<lunavorax_frizzl>
(understand "gnome 3"
<wolfspraul>
some like to hang out in boring jobs, kill downtime during office hours clicking on facebook etc, play computer games once they finally get home at night, etc.
<lunavorax_frizzl>
modern*
<wolfspraul>
but not all do :-)
<lunavorax_frizzl>
Hehe
<lunavorax_frizzl>
I'm not sad about all of this but I'm seriously curious about all of this
<wolfspraul>
yeah but I think it's because we value things differently
<wolfspraul>
you don't even need to start with religions to realize that
<lunavorax_frizzl>
Things are changing so fast. When I was a kid, my comrades at school were picking on me for liking computers... now if you don't have the latest smartphone you're a looser.
<wolfspraul>
some people happily spend 20 years of their life paying off expensive real estate in the expensive metropolitan area they live in
<lunavorax_frizzl>
wolfspraul, you described it perfectly. I'm too picky when it comes to computers.
<wolfspraul>
others move to the mid-west and buy more property for 10% of the price :-)
<lunavorax_frizzl>
Yeah I see
<wolfspraul>
(mid-west as a US concept, but the same is true all over the world)
<wolfspraul>
and the ones hanging out on their ranch are scratching their heads over what the ones in downtown whatever are doing, and vice-versa
<wolfspraul>
who says that you are a looser without the latest smartphone?
<lunavorax_frizzl>
wolfspraul, noone is saying this to me don't worry ;)
<wolfspraul>
not worrying
<wolfspraul>
maybe you think too much
<wolfspraul>
:-)
<wolfspraul>
maybe actually not many people would say somthing like that
<wolfspraul>
they can try with me, I will smile and take another sip of my coffee
<lunavorax_frizzl>
But it's in the mind of the people around me. Like, buying a tablet because you have to... but still no one knows what the hell you can do with it.
<wolfspraul>
I think if you walk around with an ipad now that's pretty embarassing
<lunavorax_frizzl>
(I still don't know what I would do with a tablet too)
<lunavorax_frizzl>
Haha
<wolfspraul>
it's similar to a (real) Louis Vuitton bag
<lunavorax_frizzl>
It's just the size but I've seen people doing so
<wolfspraul>
so you just put the ipad inside (let it peek out a little) to complete the 'look'
<wolfspraul>
seriously that's all
<wolfspraul>
the bag is 1000 USD, why shouldn't the stylish acessory that peeks out a little be 500 USD as well
<wolfspraul>
fine by me
<lunavorax_frizzl>
haha
<wolfspraul>
seriously
<wolfspraul>
hookers also love them
<lunavorax_frizzl>
I'm not saying all of this is good wolfspraul neither that I want to do like all of theses people.
<wolfspraul>
I guess you can ask for a higher price because you come across as a more high-class hooker if you have an ipad at starbucks, rather than a pesky smartphone
<wolfspraul>
then I see a lot of regular folks with ipads on subway and bus commutes
<wolfspraul>
I will watch how long they do that, looks quite tiring to me
<wolfspraul>
my estimate is: 6 months
<wolfspraul>
but why not?
<wolfspraul>
I do nothing, I just enjoy the ride and look out the window.
<wolfspraul>
or in the subway I guess look at other people, hehe :-)