<wpwrak>
(if it doesn't say anything about at86rf230, then there's no wpan driver in there)
<tuxbrain>
dmesg|grep at86rf230 returns no results
<wpwrak>
if the kernel drivers are active while the user space tools are trying to run, they're giving each other a merry chase
<tuxbrain>
ok then previous checks done
<wpwrak>
let's see what the exact message (and case) is ....
<wpwrak>
yeha, "at86rf230" is a good string to search for
<DocScrutinizer>
M1 working on 16bpp? DUH!
<DocScrutinizer>
exciting little board, but honestly, 16bpp for video?
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: did you update the tools to the latest version from git ?
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: yes
<DocScrutinizer>
24 ok, but 16
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: alright. then run atrf-proxy on the ben
<tuxbrain>
but I'm having problems on my desktop to find gls dev packages
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: meanwhile, ubb-vga produced quite decent pictures with 16 bits ;-)
<tuxbrain>
ubuntu 10.04 here
<DocScrutinizer>
wpwrak: no problem, as long as you don't have video
<tuxbrain>
fuck is gsl
<DocScrutinizer>
I.E. moving pictures
<wpwrak>
libgsl0-dev ?
<wpwrak>
aye, GSL. GNU Scientific Library ;-)
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: i don't think motion makes all that much of a difference
<tuxbrain>
ok desktop compilation ok going to compile to ben
<DocScrutinizer>
wpwrak: it does
<DocScrutinizer>
you get terrible banding
<DocScrutinizer>
which you can't usually spot in still pictures
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: and don't forget the  echo jz4740-mmc.0 >/sys/bus/platform/drivers/jz4740-mmc/unbind  on the ben. else atrf-proxy and the mmc driver will have a lot of fun with each other :)
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: hmm. guess someone has to try :)
<DocScrutinizer>
unless of course you got 4:2:2 YUV ow whatever
<DocScrutinizer>
I guess M1 is uing 5:5:5 RGP
<DocScrutinizer>
RGB
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: err ... did i say "16 bits" ? nonsense. it's of course 16 _colors_ !
<tuxbrain>
the atrf-resest has thow the error the atusb led blink onces but atrf-path -g usb net:ben still doesn't work
<wpwrak>
good. atrf-reset does what's expected of it. so far, so good.
<tuxbrain>
no dmesg don't reveal anything
<tuxbrain>
usbfs: USBDEVFS_CONTROL failed cmd atrf-reset rqt 64 rq 2 len 0 ret -84
<tuxbrain>
[705361.792558] usb 2-1: USB disconnect, address 7
<tuxbrain>
[705362.070021] usb 2-1: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 8
<tuxbrain>
[705362.237131] usb 2-1: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice
<tuxbrain>
[705363.790046] usb 2-1: USB disconnect, address 8
<tuxbrain>
[705364.580017] usb 2-1: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 9
<tuxbrain>
[705364.755418] usb 2-1: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice
<wpwrak>
looks good. maybe try the other atusb ?
<DocScrutinizer>
good?
<DocScrutinizer>
with all the reconnects?
<DocScrutinizer>
or were those resets?
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: at least one reset, yes
<DocScrutinizer>
I'd try lsusb
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: naw, the tools complain if they don't find the device
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: one possible cause for a hang would be the PLL not locking. atrf-txrx just times out and proceeds in this case, but atrf-path waits.
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: or, alternatively, the interrupt line could malfunction.
<tuxbrain>
so...
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: but let's try the other atusb board first
<tuxbrain>
yes it gives me a withe bg black fg 'hi'
<wpwrak>
(pastebin) hmm.. MOSI. now that's unusual ...
<tuxbrain>
why this sentence on the expert doen't reconforts me....?
<wpwrak>
oh, where there's a hammer, there's a technical solution ....;-)
<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: prod/Common: try to obtain more consistent handling of \033 in echo http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/6e3edf3
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: this should fix the echo problem
<tuxbrain>
dudes is late night here , I am about to dislocate my jaw yawning, I will read any posible workarround tomorrow... in two days aprox I will have the production ones (already done, just last payment and shipment left) yes I know I was to be there to do in situ test but a missundertood messages form factory from my part had made them go ahead, so I will do that flashing/tests at home. I'm crosing my fingers to everything works ok , if not ... well let'
<tuxbrain>
s see
<wpwrak>
funny. now i also get that problem with MOSI. maybe i messed up something else :) checking ...
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: please tellme is all about software....
<wpwrak>
(production) oh dear ... we'll, let's pray to the gods of murphy then ...
<wpwrak>
the advantage of the production already being done is that you'll either have some ~100 atusb boards you can use as a reference - or none at all to worry about ;-)
<wpwrak>
ah, and it would be good if you could find an oscilloscope for tomorrow. we need at least one channel, minimum range 10 MHz.
<wpwrak>
the scope will be useful for debugging the other board. plus any issues that may pop up with the boards from the factory
<wpwrak>
ah, now i see what caused MOSI misbehaviour here. let's try this:
<wpwrak>
atrf-gpio -p HHHHoHxH.HxHxHxHh.ohzoHoHH
<wpwrak>
does it complain ?
<tuxbrain>
nop
<tuxbrain>
It has to?
<wpwrak>
hmm, lemme think about this for a moment :)
<wpwrak>
if you remote the -p, it complains, right ?
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: can you fix the board in a way similar to this ?
<kristianpaul>
having some fun trying to sync two clocks domains :/
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: the goal would be to be able to push a bit of paper (the ball on the left) under the antenna, to gently bend the board upward a little
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: is hard to focus that pic, if is necesary do to so for the scope probe..
<kristianpaul>
ah paper..
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: that i've seen in a few of the boards i made is that some contacts fail. if i bend the board, those contacts often come back.
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: the multimeter probe just happens to be there. it's connected to a very conveniently placed pieced of ground. (much harder to attach it to the shield)
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: I can do that but not now, my claps are in the deep in the "tools closed" and I will make a lot of noise to pull them out, so I will arrange this setup tomorrow morning and try the bending fix then.
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: okay. the same thing may also help with the other board.
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: most likely, the other board fails to change the clock speed. so the mcu runs at 1 MHz instead of 8 MHz, which is wrong for USB
<tuxbrain>
oh wait! aha clamp find in a shelve
<wpwrak>
if you can "accidentally" drop a box of, say, metal tools from the shelf, you wouldn't have to worry about making noise after that :)
<tuxbrain>
ok tellme some comands
<tuxbrain>
hey commands that complains before now not complain
<tuxbrain>
atrf-path -g usb net:ben  still stucks
<wpwrak>
let's see ...
<wpwrak>
does the PC run ntpd ?
<tuxbrain>
ops let me check
<wpwrak>
(commands not complaining) that's good :) atrf-path still being stuck is bad, though
<wpwrak>
we're now running out of excuses for atrf-path to be stuck :)
<tuxbrain>
the gpio errors on make usb returns :(
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: have you put some paper under the board ?
<wpwrak>
(to bend it)
<tuxbrain>
yes and it work it once to arrive to the cristal check but now it doesn't work :(
<wpwrak>
try removing the paper then :)
<wpwrak>
bending the board such that the defective bonds connect isn't an exact science :)
<wpwrak>
the good news is that the boards made at the fab are extremely unlikely to have that kind of problem (well, unless i misunderstood completely what's going on)
<tuxbrain>
no way, due it works once I'm sure it a fault connect as you said, but it seems to not return to connect and I'm afraid to split the card in two if I still trying to bend it more, time to some sleep, and crossing our finguers that fab atusb/atbens are in good shape.... to at least see the black box with the withe line dancing on it...
<tuxbrain>
good night
<wpwrak>
let's hope for better luck tomorrow :)
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: sweet dreams ! :)
<whitequark>
what's exactly that Theora support for Ben? a SIMD-optimized decoder?
<wolfspraul>
yes, or scaler rather I think
<whitequark>
hmm, does 4720 have a scaling IPU?
<whitequark>
like 4750l
<DocScrutinizer>
does Ben have a display to make any use of that?
<whitequark>
well, there are some cases when you want to squeeze FullHD to 320x240
<whitequark>
and the IPU is very handy then!
<whitequark>
has printed a quote by Doc and put it on the wall
<tuxbrain_away>
wolfspraul, wpwrak rejon and other on line of course... I was thinking on change the comercial name of atben/atusb to odino/valhala , this strange inspiration comes as always does to me listening a song :P , this one http://www.jamendo.com/es/track/655800
<tuxbrain_away>
what do you think... i have de promo video in mind :P
<tuxbrain>
of course will not the full song, but the intro , chorus and the "lambada" solo are awesome for a video promo.
<tuxbrain>
also the "the wall"+morricone hohoho
<wolfspraul>
I don't care, but if one thing is badly broken in copyleft hardware land, it's brands :-)
<wolfspraul>
so I am starting to focus a bit, for example I removed the "Manufacturing: Sharism" line on the upcoming m1 run
<wolfspraul>
that's all just Milkymist now
<wolfspraul>
tuxbrain is also a cool brand I think
<tuxbrain>
ya but Tuxbrain's atusb sound less cooler than Tuxbrain's Valhalla the Might USB 6lowpan dongle
<tuxbrain>
:P
<viric>
where I work, 'Valhalla' sounds more like an internal name for a project, never labelled as such outside the company :)
<tuxbrain>
Tuxbrain's Odino Empower your NanoNote and cut with wires :P
<tuxbrain>
ok ok I need to sleep a little bit more... I was just letting the imagination fly from a lot of booring work
<DocScrutinizer>
sorry for being direct here, but I think it's better you stop that idea before it hurts
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain_away: i don't particularly care what you call them, but there's no way in hell that i'm doing a global replace of all the names in code, file names, documentation, etc. ;-)
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain_away: so if you feel strongly about those "marketing names", maybe use them as "nicknames". e.g., atben "odino" and atusb "valhala". of course, all this really accomplishes is that customers have to remember both names.
<tuxbrain_away>
ok dude enough and strong arguments againts to dismiss the idea :) atben will be atben and atusb will be atusb Â
<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer: (skinheads) ah well, you have to dismiss pretty much all the northern mythology if you want to avoid things they like :)
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain_away: funny song :)
<wpwrak>
nice .. this morning looks as if it was foggy. but i think it's not fog - it's volcano ashes. with love from chile.
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain_away: we could try to work around the hang and see if the spectrum comes out okay regardless. to do this, you could try:
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain_away: 1) in ben-wpan/tools/lib/cwtest.c:start_test_mode_231, change wait_for_interrupt(dsc, IRQ_PLL_LOCK, IRQ_PLL_LOCK, 10, 0); to .... , 10, 10);
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain_away: 2) cd ben-wpan/tools && make clean && make install
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain_away: 3) atrf-path -g usb net:ben
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain_away: then this would indicate that the transceiver isn't very happy with the change
<wpwrak>
actually, lemme change the atrf-path invocations to always use both bands. that way, we can spot such problems also in the production test ...
<wpwrak>
(background: the test mode can use channel_frequency +/- 0.5 MHz. the spectrum scan in the test scripts only uses one offset, to obtain a faster display update rate. but there are are some communication issues that you don't see that way. you should be able to catch them with other tests, e.g., the gpio test, but may be better to have a bit of redundancy)
<qwebirc7110>
dang
<qwebirc7110>
my server has failed miserably -\ this is kyak speaking
<qwebirc7110>
wow, this webchat is pretty good
<wpwrak>
qwebirc7110: (failure) software or hardware ?
<qwebirc7110>
hardware, i assume
<qwebirc7110>
it won't boot
<qwebirc7110>
my assumption is BIOS
<wpwrak>
ah, lovely
<qwebirc7110>
i will take it to work tomorrow for a little examination
<wpwrak>
i have a server that sometimes shuts down. did so about 3 times per day a couple of weeks ago, just after two visitors arrived. i diagnosed it as a double fan failure. so i bought replacements but didn't install them yet. the interesting things is that, once i had the replacements, the failures stopped :)
<qwebirc11865>
heh, i have this habit to close tabs :)
<tuxbrain_away>
wpwrak: I need a "comercial" sort description of atben/atusb to include in the shop, I can add some literature but I need a "specification" items list to put on there,
<tuxbrain_away>
wpwrak: regarding test, I will retake it this afternoon/night in about 6hours from now
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain_away: (test) perfect. i just emerged from my beauty sleep ;-)
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain_away: (commercial description) working on it ...
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain_away: regarding marketing, if you want a catchy name, then attacking the "wpan" may be a more profitable goal. besides the project name itself, there aren't too many direct references to that name, and "WPAN" per se isn't used only with ieee 802.15.4. so you could give the whole product line a code name. no code change required ;-)
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain_away: i'll post the "commercial description" to the list, for comments
<tuxbrain_away>
mmmm WPAN AtBen and WPAN AtUSB sounds catchy and meaninfull :)
<wpwrak>
hmm. i've grown a bit of a dislike for CamelCase ... it's something you always forget. worse, it keeps on changing. e.g., OpenMoko -> Openmoko. and I think MilkyMist also did a Milkymist metamorphosis
<tuxbrain_away>
WPAN atben WPAN atusb?
<tuxbrain_away>
WPAN ATBEN WPAN ATUSB
<wpwrak>
quite a bit of shouting :-)
<wpwrak>
just "atben" and "atusb" ?
<wpwrak>
or come up with some nice name for the product line
<wpwrak>
"Tuxbrain Foliot" line. whatever ;-)
<tuxbrain_away>
mmmm atben atusb  has no meaning at first sight , but adding WPAN  the seems to mean Wireles personal network at ben/usb wich is reall meaninful therefor easy to remember, my thought at least
<tuxbrain_away>
wireles personal area network to be more exact :P
<wpwrak>
maybe "atben (WPAN)" ?
<tuxbrain_away>
why?
<wpwrak>
the names get meaning by their existence ;-)
<wpwrak>
well, and the deeds they're associated with
<wpwrak>
(why) what did the "why" refer to ? the "atben (WPAN)" or the foliot ? the latter would be some minor magical/mythical creature.
<tuxbrain_away>
ok open voting on channel,
<tuxbrain_away>
a) WPAN atben
<tuxbrain_away>
b)atben (WPAN)
<tuxbrain_away>
votes for a
<tuxbrain>
votes for a
<tuxbrain>
ok two votes for a option :P
<wpwrak>
votes for b :)
<wpwrak>
(i see "wpan" more as a way of saying "this is not wifi" than of narrowing down what it actually is. unfortunately, the only accurate identifiers are IEEE 802.15.4, which is unwieldy, and 6LoWPAN, which we don't have yet)
<tuxbrain>
btw how long will take t ohave a 6LoWPAN thing
<tuxbrain>
I was real disconnected this days as you my also notice but for tuxbrain (and I hope for qi-hardware in general) good will
<jluis>
votes for b ( sounds better )
<wpwrak>
hard to tell. all that stuff ough to take a few months of work. alas, i'm running out of time. that's why i made the "dirtpan" as a "quick hack"
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: btw, what's the status with the case/sugru ?
<tuxbrain>
I have not ended a succesfull test without it... so until it happens will be any advance on case to compare if sugru eats dB
<wpwrak>
okay, one item for the to do list then :)
<wpwrak>
did the smt fab comment on any difficulties ?
<zear>
wpwrak, btw "Note: this is not an SDIO(tm) device and will only work in
<zear>
    products specifically supporting it"
<zear>
does that mean that a) you need a special hardware in your 8:10 slot, or
<zear>
b) it simply isn't a plug-and-play sdio, yet it will work in every sdio slot providing there's software for it on the system?
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: yes two:
<wpwrak>
zear: it means that it doesn't speak the SDIO protocol. you need to be able to bit-bang the individual signals in a way that MMC/SD/SDIO don't do.
<tuxbrain>
-Fiducials are not in the cordinates file list
<tuxbrain>
-They finally have to remove one of the sides of the atusb pcb panel to place correctly the USB connector (as we have adviced)
<zear>
wpwrak, pardon my lack of the proper technical knowledge, but does it mean it will work in any 8:10 slot, or not?
<zear>
i'm mostly concerned about the Dingoo A320
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: (usb) heh, we told the pcb guys about a dozen times ;-) i think the removal should have been easy, though, correct ?
<tuxbrain>
zear: meanwhile you where able to "disconnect" the SDIO driver owning it I suppost that yes
<wpwrak>
zear: no it won't work in any slot with the 8:10 card or uSD form factor
<zear>
zrafa has a dingoo he got from me, so perhaps you two could test ben-wpan on it once meet the next time ;)
<wpwrak>
zear: you need to be able to a) run a specific driver, and b) that driver needs to be able to bit-bang the signals.
<zear>
*once you
<wpwrak>
zear: let me give you a counter-example:
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: yes, it was easy, they where more annoyed by the fiducial thing, nothing irritating but the have remarked me this a lot
<zear>
wpwrak, so it's all software limitations
<zear>
not the slot hardware
<wpwrak>
zear: if you have an MMC/SD/SDIO-to-USB controller chip (often found in laptops/netbooks), then that chip would implement operations like "send command with response type R1" or "send command with response type R2 and a data block"
<wpwrak>
zear: the conrtoller would then generate a number of transitions of the signal lines for those commands. atben wouldn't understand any of this.
<zear>
wpwrak, i'm thinking of the miniSD slot in the Dingoo A320, which supports SDIO, so i assume there's no sd-to-usb trickery like in laptops
<wpwrak>
zear: i don't know the dingoo. can you point me to the schematics ? then i could probably tell whether it's possible
<zear>
wpwrak, let me see if i can find anything
<zear>
also, feel free to bother rafa about showing you the real thing, i already told him he has to show it to you one day ;D
<mth>
wpwrak: I don't think there are public schematics for the Dingoo, but it's a JZ4740 based system
<whitequark>
tuxbrain: any thoughts of when atben/atusb will be available for order?
<wpwrak>
zear: zrafa new lives a long distance (some 1.2 Mm) away from me. currently snowed in below volcanic ashes :)
<mth>
we're running a kernel on it that is derived from qi-kernel
<zear>
wpwrak, yeah, i know
<zear>
though you two will eventually meet ;)
<wpwrak>
mth: okay, then the chances of atben working out of the box are probably pretty good. well, unless they did something really stupid ;-)
<wpwrak>
zear: sure. he comes to town every now and then.
<tuxbrain>
whitequark, even there is no official annoucement yet and the shop descriptions are totally ugly (I will fix it ASAP) you can order them now, I will spend all weekend flashing/testing/praying to have some ready to send on tuesday (monday is holidays here)
<zear>
wpwrak, the thing has a broken screen and afaik it pretty much dusts somewhere on rafa's desk, so would be nice if he actually used it for something ;)
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: just don't start charging credit cards before at least one has been verified to be okay ;-)
<zear>
tuxbrain, any estimated price range of ben-wpan you guys expect it to be?
<whitequark>
tuxbrain: sure. what payment options do you have?
<wpwrak>
zear: ;-) you guys should buy bens instead, not some weird dingoos ;-)
<tuxbrain>
zear: without vat and no shiping 25¬ atben /35¬ atusb /50¬ the combo
<zear>
wpwrak, i do have a ben, from the first batch ;)
<zear>
it's dusting away :P
<zear>
tuxbrain, ouch, a bit pricey
<tuxbrain>
zear: order 1k and will be a lot cheaper :P
<zear>
but that's an appropriate price for a small batch
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: hmm. so a quick calculation suggests that you're actually losing money on them ? :)
<tuxbrain>
whitequark: credit card, bank transfer and paypal
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: not not loosing money but not earning a lot with them :P
<zear>
wpwrak, oh, and the weird dingoos have actually gaming controls, you guys should not buy weird gaming controls-less hardware designs from china ;)
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: (not losing) heh, good.  at least something :)
<wpwrak>
zear: bah, the ben has a full keyboard. that more gaming control could you possibly want ;)
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: covering fab costs and bit of the hours I will spend flashing leting the sking on my finges with your "confortable" flashing cable :P
<zear>
wpwrak, maybe if you want to play nethack or text adventures
<tuxbrain>
sking->skin
<zear>
tuxbrain, the problem is you have to order two wpans to have any use of them, so the price raises twofold ;P
<whitequark>
tuxbrain: any estimate of how much the vat and shipping will add?
<tuxbrain>
zear , don't look at the money look at the peeled fingers after unpanelize, edge smothing and flashing  hundreds of this beaties just with the joy of hardware freedom lovers in mind :P
<zear>
:D
<tuxbrain>
whitequark: where do you live?
<whitequark>
tuxbrain: Russia
<zear>
tuxbrain, my whole interest in wpan limits to the concept of sticking one into a dingoo and a second into a nanonote, and play some duke3d deathmatch ;)
<wpwrak>
zear: to two atben then. well, EUR 50 for the pair. that's not too bad. you'd pay more for a single WLAN card ;)
<tuxbrain>
whitequark: ufffffff.... I have bad experiece with rusia lately, I have to review all the shiping there looking for better option than I have....
<zear>
an sdio one - yes
<zear>
wpwrak, though 50 EUR is pretty much a price of a new dingoo, so.. ;P
<zear>
on the other hand, having something like atben would be a great opportunity to learn about networking protocols and stuff like that
<wpwrak>
zear: if you can finance the production of as many atben cards as dingoos were made, the prices would come down quite a bit, too ;-) it's unfortunately all about volume in this business ...
<zear>
wpwrak, yeah, i'm not doubting that :P
<kristianpaul>
yeah :(
<wpwrak>
zear: yeah ! no black box :)
<wpwrak>
e.g., at EUR 25 for an atben, tuxbrain should have a seriously fat margin. but, given the low volume, one-time costs and higher per-unit costs due to low volume eat all that
<zear>
that's the problem with small companies. On one hand, your price is dependent on your batch order, on the other hand though, smaller bath == bigger price == smaller public interest in buying your stuff
<whitequark>
tuxbrain: dealextreme had no problem delivering its stuff
<whitequark>
maybe you can use the same methods
<kristianpaul>
postal mail is nice
<kristianpaul>
i used ro bring stuff from usa,
<kristianpaul>
same methof used by dealextreme to my country too
<whitequark>
kristianpaul: where are you from?
<kristianpaul>
whitequark: colombia
<tuxbrain>
kristianpaul, whitequark my experiece from other people I have talked about is : USA->South america OK, China->Rusia Ok, EU->USA OK, EU->Southamerica problems, EU->Rusia problems
<tuxbrain>
Fedex seems to have a good ratio of avoiding such problems, also DHL seems too, UPS is a totally dissaster, and TNT is like a rolling a dice
<kristianpaul>
wow 50eur are just 130.000 cop, thats not that bad :-)
<whitequark>
and ca. 2000 rur
<whitequark>
like 2/3th of a Ben...
<wpwrak>
zear: yeah, it's a vicious circle. kinda like the "poverty tax". if you're poor, you can't buy efficiently, ending up paying more than richer buyers.
<zear>
yea
<kristianpaul>
oh i agree with that whitequark
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak*
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: i had my share of troubles with DHL. fedex are the best. they would still have some room for improvement, but all the others are worse.
<tuxbrain>
so decide fedex for the win on those trouble customs barriers ,
<zear>
wpwrak, with enough cool applications of it and drivers for different systems/architectures, plus a list of devices confirmed to work with it, providing it gets a good advertising (for example videos showing how two systems can play games together), i think wpan has a great chance of winning lots of customers
<kristianpaul>
fidopan ;)
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: regular mail can often also be an option. it's usually very inefficient, but it's generally aimed as "common people", so they may be more lenient on customs restrictions.
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: ;-))
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: meanwhile your not live in spain this can apply, I tryied once to oferr it as an option, but you see now any vestige on the tuxbrain website about it? so well you can deduce how it works, until I have at least tree guys(or girls)Â Â working exclusively at shippings that can handle the headaches for me, I will not offer again Spanish postal as shipping option, clear enough?
<kristianpaul>
yes sr
<GNUtoo>
hi tuxbrain
<GNUtoo>
you had oe questions?
<whitequark>
tuxbrain: looks like you're quite annoyed by spanish postal...
<GNUtoo>
but then you disappeared
<kristianpaul>
that conclude tuxbrain offices should be moved out spain :-)
<tuxbrain>
kristianpaul: or conclude that tuxbrain has to burn out all postal offices and officers to restart from 0 with some efficiency in mind, not much just a bit
<kristianpaul>
that count too ;)
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: he should relocate to argentina for a while. i think he'd be quite happy with the spanish post after that ;-)
<wpwrak>
well, here the bureaucracy actually isn't too bad. works better than i expected. but each trip to the post office means to stand something like 30-60 min in line. sit, if you're lucky and it's a saturday with bad weather.
<kristianpaul>
loves living in his small city
<tuxbrain>
GNUtoo: my apologizes fot my offline period, was needed, there are a lot of OE questions parked that will arise again once I retake that part, but righ now I have another priorities like atben/atusb and a lot of burocratic/marketing papers and comercial chitchat until the end of june, I have partialy solved my OE needs avoiding it and do "on device" compilation (on BIP-6000 latest version QT,PyQt takes about 7 days but at least work is done) to make
<tuxbrain>
able to work a OpenERP client (Koo) with this I have save my day , and I can develop this part of the businnes quite a lot, but of course this is not the optimal way to work , I "need" an stable way to generate full images form a "stable" and uptodate OE enviroment, but this can be postponed buy now for a couple of weeks
<GNUtoo>
tuxbrain, np
<GNUtoo>
tuxbrain, abuot pyqt, it's in oe now
<GNUtoo>
and works fine
<GNUtoo>
morphis and mickeyl are making a new program called aurora
<GNUtoo>
that is in QT+QML
<tuxbrain>
GNUtoo: nice to know :)
<GNUtoo>
and they use python for it
<wpwrak>
oh, nice. component references can only be 9 characters. or mayhem results.
<dvdk>
whitequark: tuxbrain: saw you talking about atben/atusb and shipping
<dvdk>
maybe we could handle this like the UBB? i order a few and forward them using german mail (insured worldwide shipment should be about eur 6.50)
<dvdk>
the nice thing is: in case they are lost, then we get money back and tuxbrain can sell even more :)
<whitequark>
dvdk: that will be very good
<whitequark>
but they are quite costly. you're going to buy a not so small quantity, right?
<dvdk>
whitequark: maybe this time i will only buy as much as i can re-send.  maybe not more than 3-5?
<dvdk>
if i do another thing like ubb (ordering/reselling 50), pulster.de is going to be angry again :)
<dvdk>
whitequark: you might have to pay customs tax, though.
<dvdk>
ok, it's 3,45+2,05+1,50
<dvdk>
7 euro, insured for up to 100 euro
<dvdk>
pretty expensive
<dvdk>
plus about 25 cent for a proper shiping envelope
<dvdk>
whitequark: btw you also alsked about mplayer acceleration.
<dvdk>
whitequark: it's scaling + color conversion in hardware.  actual decoding up to Y+U+V image planes is done in software
<dvdk>
the best way to get video on the ben is to transcode it via ffmpeg2theora or use ffmpeg to generate webm/vp8 video at the correct resolution (down-scaled).
<whitequark>
dvdk: hm, same for 4750l
<whitequark>
too bad they're putting different ipus and codecs in each next chip
<whitequark>
dvdk: (pulster.de) how that's related to you?
<dvdk>
whitequark: (I was somewhat kidding), pulster.de commecrially sells UBBs, and he wasn't to happy last time i announced on the mailinglist that i could ship ubbs worldwide for 0.80 cent shipment cost
<dvdk>
s/cent/euro
<dvdk>
whitequark: (wrt video codecs): having the codec in software is better anyways, hackability-wise
<whitequark>
dvdk: sure, the only thing you should do in hardware is SIMD
<whitequark>
the good part is, SIMDs are somewhat compatible, at least upwards (ben 4720 -> my 4750l)
<whitequark>
the bad part, through, is absence of documentation and tools
<whitequark>
dvdk: (pulster) I just noticed they sell SD-WiFi cards, and apparently they work with Linux
<whitequark>
dvdk: do you know (just in the case) if there are cheaper variants? 89 euro is a lot
<kristianpaul>
whitequark: sure,re-use is good, i miss that too
<kristianpaul>
but thinking about offline is good from time to time
<kristianpaul>
too
<kristianpaul>
hum, no usb ports, oh well, hard situation
<whitequark>
kristianpaul: there's no sense in usb ports when you only have stock firmware
<whitequark>
even with root
<whitequark>
talking about this, tp-link does some rather good (and cheap, for its features) routers
<whitequark>
with EHCI and perfectly functional OpenWRT installable
<kristianpaul>
i was about to point a fonera, i think are kinda cheap too, for those wifi to usb-host bridges.
<dvdk>
wpwrak: maybe pulster had to wait some time with UBB shipments for market to become desaturated :)
<whitequark>
kristianpaul: my one (gigabit router with draft-n wifi and 400mhz mips cpu) was about $100. don't know how fonera compares to that
<dvdk>
kristianpaul: fonera?  i have been reflashing fonera routers with openwrt backfire.  but no usb on them.
<dvdk>
my fonera was 13 eur on ebay :)Â Â bought 3 of them.
<whitequark>
dvdk: are there any uses for UBB except plugging it to Ben for some weird task?
<dvdk>
whitequark: plugging it into other devices for weird tasks? :)
<whitequark>
dvdk: (fonera) that's cheapier than the cheapiest of most crappy d-links here :)
<dvdk>
whitequark: no uses I currently know of.  but i also gave a few ubb to people who don't own nanonotes, so maybe there is something to them.
<dvdk>
whitequark: yeah and with backfire, they _rule_
<whitequark>
dvdk: I don't know any other devices with a SD slot accessible as GPIOs, would be interesting to hear about these
<dvdk>
whitequark: i'd guess almost all embedded systems can reporgram their sd card pins.
<dvdk>
you might look at the efika mx devices sold by tuxbrain.  they use a freescale imx chip, that directly feeds the (micro) SD slots.  I'd guess the imx can reuse the SD pins as GPIOs
<whitequark>
dvdk: ah yes, that may be applicable to some developer boards as well. apart from that, and maybe dingoo's and clones, I don't know any devices with SD card slot and a firmware which allows you to use pins as gpios
<dvdk>
whitequark: as long as you have linux an can put software on the devices, reprogramming should be simple.  not even a kernel module needed (user-space sw only)
<dvdk>
s/an/and
<whitequark>
dvdk: you'll need docs for chipset too
<whitequark>
userspace bitbanging without mmap is going to be slow as hell
<dvdk>
whitequark: you don't have a chipset, just a single chip (SOC) in most embedded devices nowadays.  and most of these are pretty well documented.
<whitequark>
dvdk: sure, a soc
<wpwrak>
dvdk: and there must be enough space for UBB+cable (or whatever you connect). e.g., this excludes the openmoko phones :-(
<wpwrak>
whitequark: you could it use also to make an uSD->SD adapter
<whitequark>
wpwrak: would a flex something (dunno how is it called. that thing used to connect LCD displays to boards) work with openmoko? it's not very hard to solder those to plain board I think
<whitequark>
I mean, you can solder it to UBB and then route under the battery maybe
<whitequark>
not a very clean solution, through
<wpwrak>
whitequark: yes, that may work. but with difficulty. the uSD adapter there is quite inaccessible.
<wpwrak>
whitequark: the main problem would be that the FPC would come out near the PCB. then you'd have to bend it upwards in very little space. this puts mechanical strain on the FPC and it will in turn have a spring force working against the uSD card holder, possibly forcing it open.
<dvdk>
kristianpaul: i wonder whether fonera 2.0g can still be reflashed via ethernet using the bootloader bug.
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: if one were to generate a set of fab files now, they would include the fiducials in *-pos.csv :-)
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: did you see my suggestions for trying to make the spectrum scan work, even if the board isn't entirely healthy ?