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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
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<no-defun-allowed>
LdBeth: Try parting and joining again?
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<no-defun-allowed>
Usually you get kicked if you need verification.
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<LdBeth>
Now it should works
<pjb>
It better be!
<LdBeth>
equwal: thank you btw
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<jeosol>
Good morning all
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<beach>
Hello jeosol.
<jeosol>
Hi beach. Been a while. Hope you are doing well with all this pandemic stuff going on.
<beach>
So far so good. Thanks. You too I hope.
<jeosol>
side topic: As I am learning french, I was able to follow some French debat regarding chloroquinine use. Interesting how the french debate on TV.
<jeosol>
Yeah I am ok for now.
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<jeosol>
I see that that the Els conf was cancelled at least for now.
<jeosol>
Regarding CL, I wanted to discuss merits of different ways of organizing defmethods. I recently updated to SBCL 2.0.3 and noticed some errors that were not caught with previous version. It was mainly package errors where I am implement a defmethod for class a file but prefaced with the package name where the defgeneric is defined.
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<beach>
Why would that be a package error?
<jeosol>
I think there was an issue loading my systems. Before the recent changes, I was referencing some functions via the package names in some other files (I know bad design) and it complained about that. In another case (my question) above, my defmethods are scattered across several files
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<jeosol>
And a system that needed a specific defmethod (specialized on eql) could not be found
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<beach>
There is nothing bad about having different methods defined in different files and different packages.
<jeosol>
It was my fault not SBCL's. except that it wasn't caught in the previous version. Perhaps I need another tutorial
<jeosol>
beach: I agree, that's the functionality I used through my project. It helps me keeps better separated.
<jeosol>
As things get larger and larger, I think I am not doing a good job with my system loading. It's probably getting sloppier.
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<jeosol>
I had a discussion with Fare about extracting ASDF dependency graph with POIU but he said it will some amount work to do that.
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<hajovonta>
hello
<phoe>
heyy
<no-defun-allowed>
Hello phoe and hajovonta.
<hajovonta>
From a macro, I need to generate something like this: (mypackage::foo param1 param2)
<hajovonta>
Can I generate fully qualified function names somehow?
<phoe>
Krystof: is that the proper page? this one only mentions keywords in context of printing them with a preceding colon, so :FOO instead of KEYWORD:FOO
<Krystof>
well, no, :FOO instead of FOO
<phoe>
oh right, that thing
<Krystof>
if the keyword package is the current package, normally you would print a keyword without a package prefix
<phoe>
correct
<Krystof>
so without that special-case you can't use the keyword package to guarantee readable package prefixes on all symbols; with it, you can
<Krystof>
I learnt this from Erik Naggum, 20 years ago
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<splittist>
Any suggestions for lisp-related papers to read while the ACM library is free to access?
<beach>
That's a tough question.
<beach>
There are so many papers.
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<splittist>
storage is cheap (: time is not ):
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<beach>
Paul Wilson's allocator survey is one of my favorites.
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<aeth>
splittist: You might want to ask in #scheme (for Schmes) and ##lisp (for all the Lisps) because a lot of the papers wouldn't be specific to Common Lisp.
<aeth>
There might be a slightly different crowd with different recommendations
<splittist>
beach: lots of his stuff at ftp://ftp.cs.utexas.edu/pub/garbage
<splittist>
aeth: true
<beach>
splittist: Ah, yes, you don't need ACM for that.
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<splittist>
I see I can get "Fast Generic Dispatch for Common Lisp" for Free!
<Shinmera>
All of the ELS papers are available on the els website already
<splittist>
Shinmera: yes.
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<White_Flame>
I like that there's useful stuff in a directory named "garbage"
<phoe>
White_Flame: "/pub/garbage on cs.utexas.edu holds papers about garbage collection, persistence, and memory hierarchy implementation."
<phoe>
from the README
<White_Flame>
yes, obviously :)
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<phoe>
the name is amusing though, I agree :D
<no-defun-allowed>
One who downloads all the papers from that directory is a...
<phoe>
no
<phoe>
please no
* no-defun-allowed
deallocates herself
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<White_Flame>
is a copying garbage collector?
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<White_Flame>
if they do it with their kids, it's even generational
<no-defun-allowed>
If they interleave that with actually useful work (provided they don't study memory management for work), it might be incremental.
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* splittist
is sorry he wasn't here to pun in real time
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<phoe>
Is there a portability library that defines a common condition type for errors signaled by no-applicable-method?
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<phoe>
or should I write my own method for #'no-applicable-method and signal my own error if I want it?
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<Shinmera>
the latter.
<Shinmera>
the error you can signal there will be more meaningful, too.
<Shinmera>
provided of course you don't specialise on T.
<phoe>
I can't specialize on T without going against the standard
<phoe>
there's already a system method defined on T
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<dokma>
How do I alter (add-hook 'cuda-mode-hook 'linum-mode) to set linum-mode to relative ??
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<beach>
dokma: add-hook is not a Common Lisp function.
<dokma>
it isn't
<beach>
So where did you see it.
<beach>
?
<dokma>
in spacemacs config
<beach>
Sorry, this channel is dedicated to Common Lisp.
<dokma>
but #spacemacs is dead
<dokma>
so I'm trying to get help here
<beach>
But it's off topic here. Sorry about that.
<dokma>
the question is general
<dokma>
function names are irrelevant
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<dokma>
how would you do it in common lisp?
<beach>
Common Lisp doesn't have anything like a "cuda mode".
<dokma>
beach: is that really relevant? I'm just trying to set a value
<scymtym>
dokma: common lisp has the builtin macroexpand hook which works differently compared to emacs' concept of hooks. there are libraries for hooks in common lisp as pointed out by splittist. the emacs lisp code you are looking for might be (add-hook 'cuda-mode-hook (lambda () (display-line-numbers-mode 1) (setf display-line-numbers 'relative)))
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<phoe>
dokma: #emacs is not dead though
<phoe>
spacemacs is an emacs distribution, and your question is definitely an emacs one
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<phoe>
...ironclad is not the most trivial library to grok
* phoe
reads up on authenticated encryption
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<phoe>
There was a slime command that evaluated an expression and inserted the eval result next to it. What was it?
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<phoe>
or provide a WITH-PRNG for testing purposers
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<phoe>
in order to close the fd
<_death>
closing the file descriptor means you may need to reopen urandom, leading to a greater chance of failure
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<Shinmera>
sabrac: I have run into that too.
<Shinmera>
I think in my web framework I have an explicit workaround where I bind each thread to a new rng
<Shinmera>
cause otherwise you get sporadic, really nasty errors in random places
<Xach>
random!
<jackdaniel>
random topics are forbidden on this channel :)
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<_death>
I guess it could fail because of read-sequence (and not posix read).. maybe specifying that the stream is not buffered would make sense on some implementations, or maybe straight posix calls is a better alternative.. choices
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<_death>
seems dl.acm.org removed my IP ban ;).. I'm gonna create a list of the stuff I wanna download and slowleech it
<Xach>
lispy stuff?
<_death>
oh, wrong channel :).. yes, lispy stuff from old CACM issues
<_death>
I got up to 1972 yesterday when they banned the IP for downloading around 100 pdfs
<Xach>
nikodemus got banned as well
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<_death>
people with univ access could get a hold of it easily, I guess..
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<_death>
I should use a Poisson process to determine the download times..
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<Bike>
characters aren't the same as keyboard keys, anyway
<_death>
in ascii, 65 = #\A
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<mercourisj>
I know this is a Lisp channel, but why do other languages use such varied syntax for function calls and data passing
<mercourisj>
what is the purported advantage of this?
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<mercourisj>
I'm just thinking for example about the << operator in C++, and wondering why you would possibly need it
<mercourisj>
BTW, thanks for the feedback about chars, I decided to do it in C++, but my message did not go through about that
<mercourisj>
I will use whatever facilities they have to try to get it to work reliably...
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<jmercouris>
I'm just struggling to imagine a justification for this, I always accepted it when I first learned the languages, but now I am wondering why anyone would do that
<_death>
you can find the answer in a book called The Design & Evolution of C++
<jmercouris>
I'm sure I'll get some bullshit answer, anyone can justify any decision
<jmercouris>
I'm looking for some overarching reasoning behind the justification of different calling conventions in languages
<jmercouris>
why this strange syntax? do language authors believe it helps in some way?
<jackdaniel>
homoiconity is great and all, but it is not that elaborate syntax is without merit - good syntactic sugar gives your code a well justified mold
<jackdaniel>
"ordinary" function calling notation is directly inherited from standard math notation
<jackdaniel>
s/from/from the/
<jmercouris>
you could then take the question one step further
<jmercouris>
who decided the syntax of math
<jmercouris>
and why did they think it was a wise idea to combine so many notations and patterns?
<jackdaniel>
it is well offtopic now.
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<_death>
nobody decided the syntax of math, people came up with their own notations and some prevailed over others, sometimes for good reasons, other times not
<_death>
(of course, there is no one math syntax..)
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<pjb>
jmercouris: you can use com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.ascii:ascii-code and code-ascii.
<aeth>
The furthest mainstream languages are probably C++ or Java in terms of OOP with the object system being incompatible with CL's, while being very massive so compatibility would be a lot of work. A lot of these other "far" languages can be (and sometimes have been) implemented in CL.
<xristos>
APL
<xristos>
Forth
<xristos>
K
<jcowan>
They don't have OOP constructions
<aeth>
jcowan: Well, yes, I mean in the sense that both CL and C++/Java are "OOP" languages, but only if you use different definitions of OOP.
<aeth>
They don't just have incompatible object systems, they have incompatible definitions of OOP.
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<LdBeth>
good morning #lisp
<ArthurStrong>
LdBeth: good morning indeed
<phoe>
heyyy
<LdBeth>
jcowan: both APL and Forth has their OOP variants/extensions
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<pjb>
ocaml too has an oo system, similar to an OO system in prolog, IIRC.
<jcowan>
I remember an OO system in Prolog where the objects are theories (collections of predicates)
<jcowan>
a theory could inherit from another theory in several ways
<jcowan>
the subtheory could add its rules to the supertheory's rules for a given predicate, or only add whole predicates
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<pjb>
stylewarning: I guess you've posted this message to comp.lang.lisp too.
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<stylewarning>
pjb: I haven’t. I’d appreciate if somebody would.
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<lxbarbosa>
for Lispers that know enough of Haskell, does it offers singular features that Lispers "must know about"? I mean, Lisp has a lot of interesting points that I did not see in .NET/Python, and I want to learn new paradigms and perspectives.