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<dmilez_>
I really realy wish there was a web-ide for common lisp that lets someone explore and edit the file system
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<dmilez_>
like Atom-SLime + Atom-in-Orbit
<dmilez_>
or even better VSCode-Slime + telia
<fouric>
minion: chant
<minion>
MORE THAT
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<fouric>
minion: chant
<minion>
MORE THAT
<fouric>
...
<dmilez_>
anyone compared cl-lsp (Language Server Protocol) to SLIME? is there no comparison.. or.. ?
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<Xach>
i have not
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<onion>
dmilez_: there is also https://github.com/joaotavora/sly ... choice and competition is healthy but theres basically at least two of everything and i need to start flipping coins soon
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<onion>
dmilez_: there is also swank-js, for doing "slime" things but on a browser-connected JS repl.
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<dmilez_>
onion: hrm between what to sides of the coins?
<dmilez_>
to/two
<dmilez_>
slime vs LSP ?
<onion>
er the link i posted ...
<onion>
Sly vs. Slime .
<onion>
i dont know much about LSP other than adventure time sry
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<dmilez_>
ah .. i watched video w/o audio .. looks good
<onion>
for sly or lsp? =)
<onion>
or adventure time?? =P
<Oladon>
Anyone know of a web forum library in Lisp, preferably CL? It's proving difficult to search for.
<dmilez_>
oh, i assumed that it was some other adventure time related to lisp
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<onion>
Lumpy Space Princess. also unrelated, thats how i imagine certain personas here in irc when they are all hot headed or high headed. current #otherchannel activity not withstanding
<dmiles>
Also one can use Microsoft Comic Chat for IRC
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<Bicyclidine>
i'll be pants
<onion>
haha i remember that
<onion>
oh my. that would be a fun little project to make something like
<onion>
also, dmiles == dmilez ?
<Bicyclidine>
it wouldn't be the same without woodring
<onion>
it would pull out random meme chars
<fouric>
onion: to be fair, sly is a fork of semi-fork of slime that tracks all of its features, so the experience is very similar
<fouric>
Oladon: exactly what are you looking for?
<onion>
fouric: i figured so, im not sure i can understand the features on the page but i will check out the video dmilez_ linked
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<fouric>
the video might work too, but text is easier to scan quickly
<onion>
ah nice, ty ! will be back after some coffee
<fouric>
Oladon: if you're actually looking for a *forum* proper, then the comp.lang.lisp newsgroup appears reasonably active: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.lang.lisp/
<fouric>
onion: np! i hope it serves you well, or, failing that, you at least discover that it is unfit for your needs as quickly as possible
<Bicyclidine>
i think they meant software to /run/ a forum.
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<fouric>
...oh
<fouric>
I'm an idiot, didn't read the post.
* fouric
hides
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<fouric>
dmilez_: historically, Emacs+SLIME has been *miles* ahead of other editors (a few commercial products possibly being the exception) in terms of Lisp development integration and features.
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<fouric>
...although I, personally, haven't been keeping up on VS Code's features.
<Oladon>
fouric: Heh. Nice illustration of why it's been difficult to search for, though! :)
<fouric>
I suggest trying both. If you don't have time, Emacs+SLIME is the safer bet
<fouric>
Oladon: happy to provide a case study for you lol
<Bike>
wasn't the y combinator website thing in lisp at some point?
<Oladon>
Indeed, supposedly it was in Arc, but I can't find any mention of the forum code being open-sourced
<patrixl>
aside from the plaster, filebox, reader applications in the Shirakumo repositories, are there other examples of web apps built using Radiance?
<patrixl>
I'm trying to re-write something I wrote last year in Ruby+Sinatra, which has one main web app + several modules that are optional and can be loaded to add routes/REST API endpoints and pages
<patrixl>
and while my first two attempts involved Hunchentoot and Wookie, seems like most of the code I wrote to handle routing, plugins, hooks etc are already present in Radiance
<patrixl>
just trying to figure out how that app should be structured and built, since the examples I see are basically each of them one "virtual-module" and nothing more, while I'm assuming what I want will have multiple virtual modules and some kind of main app which may or may not be a virtual module
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* fouric
actually sort of wonders which Lispers do webdev
<fouric>
...aside from the obvious Shirakumo/Shinmera, that is.
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<aeth>
There is a #lispweb but it was dead so I left it because I am in far too many channels. I don't know if it is more active now.
* patrixl
checks
<beach>
Good morning everyone!
<patrixl>
it exists, not many people there though
<patrixl>
morning beach
<patrixl>
(mid-afternoon here though)
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<patrixl>
well I suppose I'll go ahead, start coding, and see what happens lol
<patrixl>
it might have been harder to get if I wasn't living in Japan where "ohayo" (good morning) is kinda used the same way between friends and colleagues
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<pjb>
Ave!
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<beach>
For Second Climacs, I wanted to render the cursor between two characters (or at the beginning or the end of a line) and not like Emacs does on top of the character after point. So currently, I render the characters following the cursor a bit further to the right than their normal position.
<beach>
This way of rendering is apparently not acceptable to some people. So I need some hints as to how to render the cursor between two characters without changing the position of the characters to the right. Any ideas? Maybe a one-pixel dark vertical bar between characters and some lighter background surrounding it?
<pjb>
or drawing over?
<beach>
Over what?
<beach>
The characters?
<pjb>
yes
<flip214>
beach: one-pixel might be too small, especially on high DPI displays.
<beach>
Then the characters won't be visible.
<pjb>
if it's blinking no problem.
<flip214>
I'd suggest something like a color-inverted uppercase I in the middle
<flip214>
pjb: 1 pixel is too small, how would blinking help?
<flip214>
in the middle _on top of_ the characters.
<pjb>
showing the char half the time.
<flip214>
perhaps at 50% opacity, so that the characters below are still readable.
<flip214>
or below?
<beach>
OK, let me see if I can whip up a figure...
<flip214>
although, TBH, I would associate this kind of cursor with "insert characters here", so if pressing some (character) key then overwrites the next character I'd be surprised
<beach>
Yes I understand.
<flip214>
block cursor == overwrite.
<flip214>
"I" cursor == insert.
<Shinmera>
I mean, just look at how text inputs work in almost everything (browsers, etc)
<flip214>
at least that's my association
<beach>
flip214: Yes and that is exactly what emacs does not do.
<Shinmera>
It's almost always a 1px line that is drawn on top.
<beach>
I don't know how to do a blinking cursor with McCLIM. Maybe it is possible.
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<jackdaniel>
one way to do that would be setting a scheduler which sends "blink" event which calls com-revert from handle-event associated with your sheet
<jackdaniel>
s/sends/queues/
<beach>
I guess so, yes.
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<loke>
Wow... Tha gavino sure is persistent
<loke>
Nothing like WJ though... THat guy... Man.
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<sabrac>
Any postmodern users on?
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<loke>
sabrac: I used to use it
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<sabrac>
I am collecting issues or enhancements that have not been flagged on github
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<red-dot>
:sabrac I am a postmodern user
<red-dot>
sabrac: sorry, got the colon wrong way 'round
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<loginoob>
I'm reading CL-gentle introduction to symbolic computation. How can i check if my answers are correct for the exercises
<beach>
You can show them here.
<Bike>
put anything more than a line in a pastebin, though, please
<loginoob>
what about some theoratical question
<beach>
You can still show it here.
<_death>
if it's code, you can also ask your repl
<beach>
But show the question as well. Not everybody has the book easily accessible.
<loginoob>
ok thank you.
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<beach>
_death: That's not enough though.
<_death>
beach: it's better to do that before asking here though
<beach>
Sure.
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<loginoob>
_death: will definitely check my answers in repl before asking
<loginoob>
I am not able to answer the question: PRove by contradiction that circular list cannot be constructed using just CONS. My answer from what i understood is that cons take two argument and i cannot give reference of first cell as second argument.
<beach>
That's right, but it's not by contradiction. I wonder what he had in mind.
<_death>
loginoob: to do this indirect proof, you first assume that you can create a circular list using just CONS
<_death>
loginoob: then, you follow the consequence of this premise together with the definition he presents and arrive at a contradiction
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<beach>
loginoob: To create a cell, the successor cell must already exist. I think you can derive a contradiction from that.
<_death>
since you arrived at a contradiction solely by using this premise and the definition (and the rules and axioms of logic), the premise must be false
<_death>
but beach is right.. I doubt gentle is meant to require knowledge of natural deduction :)
<loginoob>
so, let's say circular list contains three elements A B C and by making it from cons i have to cons A with cdr of C but that would make an infinite list and making it more than three elements so i cannot construct it using cons. Is that right by contradiction?
<beach>
Something like that. I wouldn't worry too much about it.
<loginoob>
ok
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<_death>
a circular list looks like #1=(X . #1#) ... assume it was created by just using cons. then, #1# must have been passed to cons in the cdr position, but #1# has not yet been created at that time..
<loginoob>
_death: A cell is created after C and to point C to A cell A must have been created before C so that's the contradiction. ok, got it. Thank you :)
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<comborico1611>
How do you automatically log into channels which require registered nicknames, when the nickserv executes after autologin executes?
<onion>
i would like to know that too
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<Bike>
you can use the server password to specify your nickserv details.
<Bike>
by uh... i don't even remember how it works, just a moment.
<Bike>
also sasl, but i've never figured that out, unless i did and forgot about it.
<comborico1611>
Hmm. That's got to be one of the stranger things of the computing world. Reminds me of something like inventing the aersol can before the wheel.
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<comborico1611>
Thanks for info, though!
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<onion>
whoaa, deftype + typecase
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<fiddlerwoaroof>
Xach: unless someone else has volunteered, I'd like to take over maintainership of linedit
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<fiddlerwoaroof>
I'm not sure what the right way to go about this is, since the current maintainer is unresponsive
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<rme>
I want to make a ccl 1.12 release pretty soon. We currently bundle ASDF 3.2.0. Will upgrading to ASDF 3.3.1 cause more harm than good?
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<Shinmera>
So far
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<khrbt>
fiddlerwoaroof: Xach had suggested moving linedit to sharplispers. 2018-01-18.log:[04:57:11] <Xach> khrbt: maybe we could move the github one to sharplispers and call it canon? i can check with nikodemus
<fiddlerwoaroof>
Although, linedit is only broken because madeira-port doesn't work with ASDF-3.3.1, which makes the fix a little tricky
<fiddlerwoaroof>
Because, unless previous versions of ASDF support :if-feature, we have to either do something fancy or choose between forwards and backwards compatibility
* fiddlerwoaroof
doesn't like backwards-incompatible changes in core systems
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<rme>
makes you long for the days of (load "load.lisp")
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<pjb>
I still have loader files, only they setup asdf:*central-registry*, and use quickload to load the system. ;-)
<pjb>
rme: it is better if the asdf version is consistent with what is provided by the other implementations.
<khrbt>
what is the reason for implementations to supply their own copy of asdf?
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<rme>
In ccl's case, it's just to make life a little easier for users.
<pjb>
khrbt: a bootstrap question.
<pjb>
users would have to locate an asdf and load it themselves. That said, this still has to be implemented for when a newer version is needed.
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<khrbt>
doesn't quicklisp also include its own copy of asdf? If most people use quicklisp, wouldn't they get automatically get asdf too?
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<Bike>
it has a really old asdf.
<khrbt>
How all these pieces fit together is really mysterious to me :/
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<fiddlerwoaroof>
Does anyone here use VivaceGraph?
<attila_lendvai>
khrbt: asdf goes out of his way to detect old versions and upgrade them if needed, while avoid accidentally downgrading. all maintained lisps ship with a relatively fresh asdf, while the one in ql is rather old, so it's practically irrelevant that it's there.
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<attila_lendvai>
fiddlerwoaroof: and others don't like cruft accumulating due to a strict backward compatibility policy. not updating is always an option... especially since DVCS and tags made integration that much easier
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<fiddlerwoaroof>
I generally dislike the accumulation of cruft due to backwards compatibility
<fiddlerwoaroof>
But, the more important something is to a language, the more important backwards compatibility is
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<attila_lendvai>
sure, but for how long? 2 years? 5 years? 10+ years?
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<fiddlerwoaroof>
If I had my preference, the build system for a language would never make a backwards incompatible change
<fiddlerwoaroof>
Otherwise, it should be at least as stable as the language specification
<fiddlerwoaroof>
;)
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<attila_lendvai>
well, sure, and besides that I want world peace...
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<jeosol_>
I need some help guys. I have been getting this error in my backtrace: 0: (SB-VM::TAIL-CALL-SYMBOL 19 19 0) and that the function "some-package-name::get-cell-p0" is not defined. The latter function is a macro that takes 3 arguments
<jeosol_>
The get-cell-p0 is a function, but it is generated automatically by a macro when I start the application.
<jeosol_>
Need some help regarding the (sb-vm::tail-call-symbol ....) error
<jeosol_>
Anyone else encounted this error before?
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<Bike>
never seen that before, but it's not an error. the actual error is that your thing isn't defined?
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<onion>
aeth: have you read Common Lisp Recipes ?
<jeosol_>
but the function is defined in the same package as the caller
<Bike>
i don't know how that's relevant
<Bike>
what's the code look like?
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<jeosol_>
@bike: (LOOP FOR POINT ACROSS #(0 1 2 3) COLLECT (FUNCALL (INTERN (FORMAT NIL "GET-CELL-P~A" POINT)) I J K))
<jeosol_>
That is the call I am making. I am constructing the actual function to call on the fly, and this is usually not known ahead of time. So I generated several functions by macro when I start
<jeosol_>
That code snippet is part of a function call.
<Bike>
i was hoping for like, enough that i could maybe run it, or run parts of it
<jeosol_>
I see.
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<Bike>
it's hard to gauge what's going on with this little context
<Bike>
why do you think the sb-vm::tail-call-symbol thing is relevant?
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<jeosol_>
@bike, the sb-vm::tail-call-symbol is the last call on the SBCL backtrace
<Bike>
what does the backtrace look like?
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<aeth>
onion: Yes
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<aeth>
onion: It has been a while, but going through parts of the book, iirc, it looks like the book generally agrees with the consensus of this channel, except when the author promotes his own libraries (can't really fault the author for that).
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<jeosol_>
@bike: I think I may have spotted the error, not sure. I checked the following and it returns nil : (eql (intern (format nil "GET-CELL-P~A" 0)) (intern (format nil "GET-CELL-~A" :PO)))
<jeosol_>
The form on the right site is now I defined the get-cell-p0 function initially (form on right side of eql), and then I am calling it in a different function as the form on the left side of the eql symbol
<jeosol_>
There are some reasons I am calling it that way, but I have to change this it seems.