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<drmeister>
If I have multiple slime sessions running at the same time - does C-c C-c go just to the most recent one?
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<Bike>
which one it is is in the mode line
<Bike>
you can do M-x slime-next-connection
<Bike>
to switch
<borei>
hi all
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<borei>
bit confused with the following problem, i have function (method), and one of the argument should be simple-array, i have declare for it
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<borei>
im calling above function as (fun (#(1.0 2.0 3.0)), but getting error that #(1.0 2.0. 3.0) is not simple-array
<Bike>
(#(1.0 2.0 3.0)) is invalid syntax
<borei>
(fun #(1.0 2.0 3.0))
<Bike>
okay, so what's the context of the error? a backtrace? full message?
<beach>
Good morning everyone!
<borei>
The value
<borei>
(SIMPLE-ARRAY SINGLE-FLOAT)
<borei>
is not of type
<borei>
#(0.0 1.5 0.0 1.0)
<pjb>
borei: simple-array is not a class.
<beach>
borei: That's different from what you said before.
<pjb>
borei: use ARRAY.
<Bike>
yaeh that's different from "is not simple-array"
<beach>
borei: When the reader sees that, it creates a (SIMPLE-ARRAY T), not a (SIMPLE-ARRAY SINGLE-FLOAT).
<pjb>
borei: also, #(0.0 1.5 0.0 1.0) is a vector.
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<borei>
trying to digest
<beach>
borei: The declaration does not have to do with what the array happens to contain, but with what it is ALLOWED to contain. In this case, the reader creates an array that is allowed to contain anything. It just so happens that it contains only floats.
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<beach>
smokeink: Thanks for posting the link to the Alan Kay's talk. Very interesting. I don't agree with everything he says, but many things are definitely true.
<smokeink>
:)
<epony>
morning, can I have the same link too (just joining)?
<epony>
beach what are the points you don't agree with? (if this is not too much of an aggravation)
<smokeink>
chenbin: I like this one https://lively-web.org/welcome.html , but it's not a reactjs thing, it's based on smalltalk . Haven't heard of any lisper that uses reactjs or angularjs , but there might be a few out there...
<beach>
epony: That Unix processes are a great invention. :)
<mangoicedtea>
pjb, thanks for the alan kay video
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<epony>
I'm interested if there are more points that you don't agree with or think are a good idea, I've not yet seen the entire talk (10m into it) and watching with a clear mind
<beach>
I am doubtful about the universal goodness of WYSIWYG. I think that has to be moderated some. But I agree that the Web is a mess as it is.
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<pjb>
yes, it's not a universal, it's a device non-programming users.
<chenbin>
react and clojurescript works fine
<chenbin>
rocks for symbol and FP
<epony>
I'm thinking how come Intel and Motorola didn't know about byte code interpreters for high level languages in hardware?
<epony>
9m36s into the talk
<pjb>
They knew about it of course. But they were making MICRO processors, as in µ-processors.
<pjb>
Ie. 10^-6 processors or 0.000001 of a processor.
<beach>
epony: I don't know the details. What I do know is that there is a tendency to think about companies as homogeneous entities with lots of wisdom. In fact, they consist of people with conflicting goals and varying ideas and knowledge. It could very well be that some people knew about it, and others in the company made decisions against it.
<pjb>
epony: They started with only a couple of 1000s of transistors.
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<epony>
ironically the browser icon was a navigator's wheel (as in a wooden ship) and not as in a cart / car
<beach>
epony: Interesting you should mention that. I have long thought that the steering wheel of a car is an anachronism and should be gotten rid of immediately.
<epony>
I think the mishaps of modern 90ies to today choices are intentionally crippling the potential into consumer devices like a 1 button radio clock, where a press of the button incurs a bill sound and counts towards an expense meter.
<epony>
at least for most computer users, not counting into this academic environments which sadly are becoming more consumer seats
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<pjb>
beach: one button instead of two on a device means it costs 0.10 € less, which means, over 100,000,000 devices a bonus for the CEO of 10,000,000 €.
<epony>
I would argue both devices cost the same from now on till proven otherwise.
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<beach>
pjb: Why are you telling me?
<pjb>
because the line refering to 1-button radio clock was too long and I misidentified the author. Sorry.
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<shka_>
hmmm
<shka_>
how can i establish binding for dynamic variable in macroexpand time?
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<pjb>
(let ((*foo* 42)) …)
<shka_>
pjb: without modyfing macro
<pjb>
With *macroexpand-hook*
<shka_>
never used it
<pjb>
(defun hook (expander form env) (let ((*foo* 42)) (funcall expander form env)))
<pjb>
The think is that either you know what dynamic variables are used by the macros, which means you have the sources of those macros, so why don't you just modify them? Or you don't and therefore you won't be able to bind what's relevant, do you?
<pjb>
But technically, yes, this will do.
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<shka_>
i know, because documentation tells me, but i won't modify because it is not my maco
<pjb>
shka_: also, if you would bind variables such as the cl:*print-…* variables, then it means there are bugs in those macros…
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<pjb>
They are strange macros…
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<lieven>
this kind of sounds like COMPILER-LET
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<shka_>
pjb: well, won't work, but just because i want to control read time, and not macroexpand time
<shka_>
it took me a moment to realize what is going on!
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<republican_devil>
is lisp better than haskell prolog smalltalk and gonga.com/ada and forth?
<republican_devil>
why?
<jackdaniel>
comparing languages this way is silly
<hajovonta>
it is better because lisp is only 4 characters and the others are more
<jackdaniel>
all languages have their own strengths and weaknesses
<smokeink>
hajovonta: good one :D
<jackdaniel>
for instance: haskell has static typing and common lisp has dynamic typing (both have strong typing). whichever you prefer depends on number of factors:
<jackdaniel>
problem at hand, your own experience, understanding of these concepts (or lack of this understanding, than you will probably stick to what you know) etc
<jackdaniel>
same goes for object oriented programming: in smalltalk the main actor is the object, while in common lisp it is the function
<jackdaniel>
both approaches are perfectly valid and prove to be a good abstraction for programming
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<jackdaniel>
but you may despise oop and none of these approaches convince you, you want less syntetic abstraction - then you may prefer forth
<hajovonta>
lisp is the best because it is the oldest of them. Lisp dates back to 1959.
<jackdaniel>
divagations like that may take whole day long, so I'll stop at these few examples
<hajovonta>
old is gold.
<hajovonta>
some would say it's "proven"
<jackdaniel>
thanks, when I look at it "proven" fits better to me too
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<hajovonta>
:)
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<pjb>
shka_: read-time is also easy to deal with. it's when you call compile-file or load…
<loke>
jackdaniel: There are languages with very fel (if any) strengths though.
<loke>
s/fel/few/
<jackdaniel>
yes, but sometimes (even most of the time!) it is hard to compare languages
<jackdaniel>
I could risk an opinion, that so called "brainfuck" languages are useless hence worse than others
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<loke>
Not all estoeric languages are useless. Unlambda is good for learning about the SKI combinators. Brainfuck is a toy, and quite fun. Others are not even useful for that. :-)
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<jack_rabbit>
That's back to the argument over languages. Probably rather than trying to objectively judge languages, it's better to view them subjectively (which I think was jackdaniel's point)
<jack_rabbit>
There are a few factors that go into deciding what the best language is for a particular project. It's hard to compare languages on their own without these constraints.
<flip214>
there are different dimensions along which languages can be positioned. amount of syntax, extensibility, broadth of library ecosystem, etc.
<flip214>
and some of these dimensions can only be judged on a (use)case-by-case basis
<flip214>
for a quick and dirty text extraction I still like to use perl; but I wouldn't use it for anything that'll become more than 200 lines long.
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<aeth>
brainfuck's use isn't that it's a fun toy, it's that it's one of the easiest to implement languages that's still "useful"
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<aeth>
so e.g. people prove turing completeness by implementing a brainfuck
<aeth>
a lot of other esolangs are malicious on purpose (as parodies) and so are entirely useless for engineering. INTERCAL and Malbolge.
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<holycow>
wow. why did i ever thimk intercal was a real thing?
<aeth>
INTERCAL has been largely replaced by Java in recent years.
<holycow>
haha!
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<aeth>
flip214 raises a good point about the length of a program. I wouldn't want to use bash for a program that's much more than a dozen lines, but for a bash program that's just a few lines, the equivalent in any other language is probably going to be hundreds. Structure can get in the way sometimes.
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<aeth>
A simple shell script sort of thing in CL is probably a 50 line overhead, and that's *after* including UIOP.
<flip214>
aeth: right. the unix shell pipe(line) is a really nice shorthand for many uses...
<flip214>
but I wouldn't call /bin/sort for sorting a list in a 3kLOC C, Perl, or Lisp program.
<holycow>
that is a very good point. we just worked on a medium scale email migration project and i wondered if the dozen bash scrts could be done in other langages in such small code snippets
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<jack_rabbit>
These are all constraints and considerations that lead one to an appropriate language choice, I think.
<holycow>
altough i is i learned about txr before westarted
<holycow>
started even. would have saved tons of time munging csv and other formats
<holycow>
although i wish <-- stupid keyboard
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<holycow>
txr is a bloody magic little dsl, super effective
<hlavaty>
i find it strange, that puri is required by so many famous packages http://quickdocs.org/puri/ and this doesnt work. am i missing something?
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<jackdaniel>
hlavaty: quri is meant to replace puri
<jackdaniel>
I think it supports utf8
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<hlavaty>
jackdaniel: is that meant to be a drop in replacement?
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<flip214>
when using parenscript, can I have an inline object?
<flip214>
the result should be like javascriptfunction({ foo: "bar"})
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<flip214>
got it.
<flip214>
(ps:ps (ps:create :foo 1 :bar 2))
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<cuso4>
Hey!
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<cuso4>
I want to define a scalar product with the following syntax (a . b), as it is often written on paper in the physics world.
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<cuso4>
But when I look at how he macro works it doesn't seem like that is helpful at all.
<cuso4>
Would anyone mind pointing me in the right direction?
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<cuso4>
Also I know it would be much easier to write something like (. a b). But at the same time I thought it would be a fun excercise to make the notation (a . b).
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<jmercouris>
(a . b) is a notation already used in lisp
<ecraven>
you can use (a o b) or something else ;)
<ecraven>
there are several proposals for infix syntax
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<jmercouris>
also the difference between wirting (. a b) and (a . b) will not be significantly more challenging
<flip214>
also, lots of unicode characters wait for their appearance.
<jmercouris>
s/wirting/writing
<flip214>
jmercouris: that's a big difference. (¸ a b) needs nothing, (a ¸ b) at least an enclosing macro (or read-macro etc.)
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<cuso4>
the notation could be something like <a , b> too
<jmercouris>
flip214: I know, I just don't think it's a huge challenge
<cuso4>
But anyway, I am looking more for what I sould google for to find examples of similar things
<jmercouris>
flip214: You could write a macro that just reorders them as a function call
<flip214>
jmercouris: that's what I wrote ;)
<jmercouris>
ah, sorry :D
<jmercouris>
I should read more carefully
<cuso4>
I still don't have a clue of what concepts I should up about
<jmercouris>
I think you need a basic understanding of Lisp in general
<jmercouris>
pointing you to specific concepts could help you solve this problem, but I think you should just learn about the language, and you'll figure out how to solve this problem relatively quickly
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<jackdaniel>
minion: tell cuso4 about gentle
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<flip214>
minion: tell cuso4 about pcl
<minion>
cuso4: direct your attention towards pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005).
<jmercouris>
wow, that was quite a delay
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<cuso4>
I know of that book, but I have an hour till I have to get back to studying and thought this would be a small and fun project.
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<cuso4>
Ain't got time for a whole book this week
<jackdaniel>
I think that you won't grok macros over the week (especially with this attitude), but I wish you that I'm mistaken
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<cuso4>
Oh, I didn't mean that it is a bad book and that I am not planning to read it. It is just that I have exams this week.
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<jackdaniel>
I'm not suggesting you say that, just noticing that you don't have time / you are reluctant to look in the literature
<jackdaniel>
explanations on IRC usually suck unless you already know something
<jackdaniel>
add above statements and you end up with lack of the subject understanding on your exam
<jmercouris>
I don't think they have a Lisp exam this week
<cuso4>
Haha no! just some good old math.
<bnntt>
Just wondering if anyone can recommend a good book for learning common lisp? I'm a CS student and want to learn it in my spare time
<jmercouris>
minion: tell bnntt about pcl
<minion>
bnntt: look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005).
<bnntt>
Thanks, I'll check it out!
<jmercouris>
best of luck! if you get stuck, feel free to ask questions here
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<jackdaniel>
he already left :( PAIP is also great for learning CL
<jackdaniel>
and it is freely available now
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<pjb>
cuso4: (. a b) is not valid syntax. You would have to write (\. a b) or (|.| a b) ; once you escape the symbol named ".", you can also use it in infix position of you would like: (a \. b).
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<pjb>
cuso4: alternatively, you can define a reader macro, for example, $ that would parse a LaTeX expression. $ a \cdot b $ --> (cdot a b)
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<pjb>
cuso4: ok, you can also define your own syntax, with your reader macro…
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<cuso4>
Thank you, seems to be exactly wht I am looking or
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<cuso4>
for*
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<Shinmera>
jmercouris: Well, the "Colleen project". Colleen the bot here is currently running on Maiden: http://shirakumo.github.io/maiden/
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<Shinmera>
Xach: I didn't find anything that was close, cheap, and a large hotel, which is a departure from previous years. Having a lispers hotel was quite nice.
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<Shinmera>
rme: If you land in Malaga it's just a bus ride to Marbella.
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<jmercouris>
Shinmera: what about is outdated? what's the new project? has IRC somehow changed making the framework not working?
<jmercouris>
let's try that again: "What about it is outdated? What's the new project? Has IRC somehow changed making the framework invalidated?
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<jackdaniel>
outdated as in: author came up with something new (probably better) and lost interest in the predecessor
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<jmercouris>
Ok, that makes a lot more sense, hence the link to the new project
<jmercouris>
I was trying to think what about IRC has changed since the first version
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<Bike>
has the protocol changed since like... 1990?
<jmercouris>
There's a working group to update the protocol with a new verison