<popolon>
And see I've linux/linux.ini, as described on this page on a system installed on (booting) NAND but not on a system installed on a (booting too) SD-Card
<popolon>
could someone explain why for ? There are no explaination about that in the wiki
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<libv>
popolon: the sunxi u-boot shares very little with the allwinner original u-boot
<libv>
which is also why we do not boot from nand with the sunxi u-boot
<popolon>
so the allwinner boot is still used for nand
<libv>
... yes, that is rather extensively documented on our wiki
<libv>
i would've expected you to have come across that one already
<popolon>
didn't found it
<libv>
whut?
<libv>
a system on chip category?
<libv>
what is that supposed to categorize?
<libv>
_everything_ again?
<libv>
urgh
<popolon>
This is not something really new
<libv>
but it is still wrong.
<popolon>
seems there are still lot of missing basic informations, or not easy to find yes
<popolon>
Could you point me to the page where sunxi / allwinner ?
<popolon>
please ?
<libv>
your sentence lacks a verb.
<popolon>
Even U-Boot page don't say anithing about that
<libv>
people can just search for the nand keyword
<libv>
now nand images, that makes sense
<libv>
nand for everything, that's just pointless busywork that at best will waste peoples time
<popolon>
so categories should probably be avoided, there are useless as everything should be found using the search engine ?
<libv>
no
<libv>
categories, when used properly, are very very useful
<libv>
categories, when used badly, are quite detrimental
<libv>
as said, a category "nand" collecting everything that remotely has anything to do with the nand, that's pointless, you have search for that
<libv>
a category "nand images", which is a subcategory of "images", that's very useful
<libv>
as you can then categorize a number of device specific image pages
<oliv3r>
Turl: i'm looking at the sunxi u-boot repo but i don't see USB support merged yet?
<Turl>
oliv3r: it probably isn't
<libv>
popolon: this concept of how to properly use categories really is not too hard to grasp
<libv>
it's pure logic
<Turl>
oliv3r: I think arokux was working on that the other day
<libv>
popolon: a category nand, collecting all pages that reference nand, you're just creating a parallel forest that helps no-one
<popolon>
I edit wikipedia since about ten yearrs, and generally, most of people agree to make categories related to a subject and subcategories that connect to several subjects
<libv>
same with hardware, software, tutorial
<popolon>
I agree with you, that's not good if that's just because there is the word NAND inside
<libv>
popolon: a subject is a different thing than a keyword
<oliv3r>
Turl: yeah but its still not merged right?
<Turl>
oliv3r: I don't think it is
<oliv3r>
so we can't really boot from USB yet
<Turl>
oliv3r: I submitted some more reviews yesterday
<Turl>
oliv3r: pretty late :\
<oliv3r>
hehe :)
<Turl>
oliv3r: but I noticed a pretty big slip
<Turl>
oliv3r: you said we hang out on #sunxi <.<
<oliv3r>
i'm doing chapter 4 now, where you said 'boot from USB' but we can't really boot from USB :(
<popolon>
but NAND image installation is really linked to nand, that's not a keyword
<libv>
the nand page should refer to them _directly_
<oliv3r>
i'll try to do the NDH for my A10s HDMI stick i got from DX, a 'jesurun
<popolon>
that's true too
<libv>
popolon: no, not too
<oliv3r>
and i didn't see the olimex SoM evualotion board, so i'll add tha ttoo
<libv>
categories should not be overused
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<popolon>
and every article should link one to other related
<oliv3r>
Turl: i'll try to remember when reviewing appendix IRC :)
<popolon>
for example from nand image page, could be nice to have a link to how to install them
<libv>
popolon: the nand page should link to many other nand related pages
<Turl>
popolon: you can search nand, or find them on the NAND page. I think categories is more like for things like "tablets", where there are different things united by pertenence to a kind of thing
<libv>
and those other nand related pages should link to the main nand page
<libv>
popolon: what i find really curious is that you spend so much time on this categories topic
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<popolon>
it seems naturel to me, as I use them a lot on wiki to navigate
<libv>
popolon: i rewrote most of this wiki over the last year or so
<libv>
popolon: but i spent most of my time documenting things which were not or badly documented
<popolon>
I now
<popolon>
when I first come there was lot of missing things or very old
<libv>
why don't you spend more time on that?
<popolon>
I tried to update them as far I can
<libv>
instead of having this obsession with adding more and more categories, which most of the time, do not help anybody
<popolon>
adding categories helped me navigate, to add elements in Boot process page for example
<libv>
if you do not have any information to add, then don't add anything
<libv>
popolon: no, the main boot page should reference related pages
<libv>
and the related pages should reference the main page
<popolon>
what for do you speak about that ?
<libv>
this boot category, which i think i might have introduced, is probably not useful
<popolon>
I just said I developed boot process page
<popolon>
because there was only 3 lines
<popolon>
nothing about the whole boot process
<popolon>
and that was only marked as dedicated to A10 boot...
<popolon>
but and some other subject too ...
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<libv>
sure, but compared against the time you spent creating and spreading categories, you spent surprisingly little time on that
<libv>
popolon: don't look for things to artificially change in our wiki, just work your hardware, figure out how to do stuff, and improve our wiki with what you learned from that
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<popolon>
adding category is not really lon
<popolon>
g
<libv>
but should be done judiciously
<libv>
yes, it is way too easy to add a category
<libv>
but that doesn't mean that you should spend most of your time doing so
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<popolon>
That's not what I done
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<popolon>
That's just an habit on most of the wiki I participate too to add category to find quickly information, and then link content in the text
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<popolon>
the needed related content
<libv>
anyway, i was going to replace my ageing wrt54gl with a faster one tonight
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<libv>
popolon: related content is register information, devices, images
<popolon>
First time I see an opposition about that, but if that's the community point of view, I'm not opposed to adapt
<libv>
i am not sure anymore, that was 8 or so years ago
<specing>
so no pics of the lantern :/
<libv>
i just knew that it was very very close
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<Turl>
libv: you should've gotten a notification
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<libv>
what do you mean with notification?
<Turl>
libv: Mr Jingles should be announcing you something on any google page
<libv>
aaah
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<libv>
i was wondering who would notify me about a lightning strike :p
<Turl>
lol
<libv>
"hello, today at 22:32 you will be struck be lightning."
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<Turl>
"who are you?"
<Turl>
"the doc, but it doesn't matter"
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<libv>
Turl: was that the wan port that burned out?
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<Turl>
libv: WAN is the blue one
<Turl>
you can see the burned trace going out of it
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<libv>
oh, right, the bottom traces indeed are telling
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<Turl>
bottom burn is on a LAN port
<Turl>
probably my X86 box there
<Turl>
which ended up with a burned MAC (or maybe just traces, dunno)
<Turl>
luckily it didn't burn my whole motherboard
<Turl>
a new pcie eth card and I was game
<libv>
yeah, with me, the pc in the living room, which was then the router only had one nic burned out
<libv>
it was amazing that nothing else was damaged
<libv>
i think i spent a few days with a hub and then bought a wrt54g
<libv>
Turl: striking the cable is quite rare i think, but induction can do a lot of damage
<libv>
although, that does look quite burned
<Turl>
yeah, I dunno, considering it didn't burn my house down it may have been induction
<Turl>
:)
<Turl>
it also left me with an unusable eth cable
<libv>
wow :)
<Turl>
I'm still amazed it didn't burn any of the arm gadgets
<Turl>
I had a CT and a Mele hooked up to that same router
<Turl>
CT was off, but mele was on
<specing>
I think lightning concluded there was nothing of value to burn there
<Turl>
heh
<Turl>
a new NIC is cheaper than a mele
<libv>
i killed an onboard nic while bringing up radeonhd
<specing>
a new NIC is more usable than a mele if you ask me :P
<Turl>
o.o
<specing>
it actually has drivers!
<Turl>
specing: meles make great looking, low power servers
<libv>
when you have 20+ pci-e cards which draw a lot of current...
<libv>
and you are swapping them all the time testing stuff...
<libv>
you do not always get the order right
<libv>
of power-off, pull the card out, push the other card in, power-on
<libv>
at one point, i think the phyceiver gave up
<Turl>
I don't get what you mean
<Turl>
what does the phy have to do?
<libv>
i still have the motherboard (one of my 30+ VIA based boards) and it is fine, apart from the fact that the onboard nic doesn't see anything anymore
<libv>
the phy just stopped working after i pulled out a pci-e graphics card out of a running system, once too often
<Turl>
ah
<Turl>
uh :p
<libv>
phys are weak!
<Turl>
PCIe is not hotpluggable is it?
<Turl>
:P
<libv>
not entirely :)
<jelly-home>
not on consumer boards anyway
<libv>
well, at the start of the radeonhd project, we got a 1 cubic meter box shipped over from amd, with all sorts of consumer packaged boards in there
<libv>
a whole table full of graphics cards
<libv>
and there were days where we were just pulling one card in, booting, looking at the log for a particular change, powering down, sticking the next card in
* Turl
does not want to imagine the tax cost of that
<libv>
business to business should not cost anything in taxes
<libv>
amd -> suse
<libv>
iirc, it was about 5k worth of consumer cards
<Turl>
to you, but I suppose they had to pay import taxes
<libv>
no idea :)
<libv>
suse barely buys any machines of its own
<libv>
most of them are or were sent in by partners
<jelly-home>
I think there are declarations for temporary import
<libv>
some very early preproduction, some production
<libv>
yeah, i do think that there is some way to avoid paying taxes on that
<libv>
or at least duties
<jelly-home>
storage vendors often send new boxes to their offices for testing
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