sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<bitcoin-wizards1> Does anybody have a link to Greg Maxwell’s simple ZKS idea based on just secure hashes? (It isn’t practical, just a simple way of explaining the core idea)
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<contrapumpkin> speaking of stuff of Greg's that I can't find anymore, https://z.cash/zkcp3.pdf (linked from https://bitcoincore.org/en/2016/02/26/zero-knowledge-contingent-payments-announcement/) is a broken link and google doesn't seem to find any copies
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<contrapumpkin> bramc: you might be talking about the thing I just linked to? the only stuff the bitcoin blockchain ever sees is a hash
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<kanzure> bramc: ^
<kanzure> or uh, contrapumpkin
<contrapumpkin> kanzure: thanks
<contrapumpkin> how'd you find that btw? I couldn't see it on google
<kanzure> it's my archive
<contrapumpkin> oh :)
<contrapumpkin> then double thanks
<kanzure> bramc: which one was the zks thing? zero knowledge ... slinkies? confidential_values.txt, or some other document?
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<bramc> kanzure: This isn't contingent payment protocol, it's a swap-out replacement for snarks which sucks but is much easier to understand
<bramc> kanzure: I don't see a paper there called 'slinkies'
<kanzure> no i am trying to decypher your ZKS acronym
<kanzure> there was this document, is this the one you wanted? https://people.xiph.org/~greg/simple_verifyable_execution.txt
<bramc> Yes, that's what I was looking for, thank you
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<bramc> I meant ZK, not sure where ZKS came from
<bramc> oh, it was Zero Knowledge Systems back in the day. I'm old
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<nsh> oh kanzure beat me
<bramc> You cannot out-type the kanzure
<nsh> This Is Known... :)
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<contrapumpkin> kanzure: there's a ton of good stuff in your archive!
<contrapumpkin> nice :)
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<Sentineo> May I humbly ask the wizards of Bitcoin to hunt down any mistakes, or correct me if I am wrong here? https://github.com/KanoczTomas/bitcoin-learn/wiki/Calculating-Bitcoin-Hash-rate I am light years away from wizardry, so please be nice :)
<Sentineo> I was trying to understand how is hash rate calculated, and exactly how the Bitcoin wiki formula came to be. Hope I got the math correctly there.
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<Flash298> Hello
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<waxwing> so about that static ECDH eh. great idea.
<waxwing> i remember asking gmaxwell what was the point of it when i read this: http://blog.intothesymmetry.com/2017/03/critical-vulnerability-in-json-web.html
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<sipa> waxwing: just saw the talk about that at 34C3 yesterday
<waxwing> sipa, yeah but that's partly why i raise it: is the new discovery distinct? i think it may be? the golang implementation or something?
<waxwing> to be honest, i don't know really what JWT even is :)
<waxwing> but i guess my other question is, isn't static ECDH crazy dangerous and why even do it. i vaguely remember some response about "resource constrained" or something. guess no simple answers with such things.
<sipa> waxwing: i believe the bignum squaring bug in openssl would also affect static-key ECDH
<sipa> with this attack
<waxwing> oh the one you found, right
<sipa> i found one randonly... later more instances of it were discovered using static analysis
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<Taek> nsh: DAGs in my opinion offer a lot of potential improvements to standard bitcoin consensus.
<Taek> Mining fairness is probably the biggest. You can construct a DAG so that miners with worse network infrastructure don't experience as great a hit to revenue vs. Nakamoto consensus
<Taek> The next biggest would probably be confirmation times. Because mining fairness is a lot better, you can reasonably bring the block time down to 30 seconds or less, and still have equal or better security vs. nakamoto consensus
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<Taek> Ultimately you still want to wait for a bunch of confirmations, say like 10 minutes worth, but because the block time is less than 30 seconds, the variance on 10 minutes of confirmations is only going to be a minute or so
<Taek> maybe a few minutes. But you won't ever be stuck waiting 3 hours for what's supposed to be 30 minutes worth of blocks
<Taek> The other benefit worth mentioning I think is that it smooths out network performance. With Bitcoin, you get 2,000 txns in the space of a few seconds, and then nothing for 10 minutes. But with DAGs, the bursts are smaller and more frequent
<Taek> I think that the reduction in bursty-ness is not such a huge benefit though, because it's mostly bootstrap time that's the bottleneck with regards to blockchain size right now, imo
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<contrapumpkin> anyone know of an implementation of this, or how feasible it is? https://monero.stackexchange.com/a/895
<contrapumpkin> I'm talking about the ZKCP part it references about bitcoin
<contrapumpkin> (apparently monero doesn't have scripting support so the usual atomic swap protocol won't work)
<contrapumpkin> in general, doing nontrivial work for ZKCP seems tricky
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<kanzure> .title
<yoleaux> cryptography - Can you trustlessly trade Monero for Bitcoin? - Monero Stack Exchange
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<eck> multisig support was only merged into monero master a week or two ago, so I don't know how well tested it is, but I did watch a youtube interview with one of the monero developers who said that was the last big missing piece to do cross-chain swaps
<eck> actually the interview was with fluffypony who is in this room, perhaps he knows
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