#bitcoin-wizards on 2017-12-10 — irc logs at freenode.irclog.whitequark.org

2015-10-30 00:53 sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja

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02:28 <abomb> this channel is exciting

02:31 <kanzure> you're welcome to leave any time

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02:37 <abomb> when its this exciting?

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03:04 <adl> LOL

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07:14 <abomb> is it possible to change oclvanitygen private key generation or do they do tricks that bypass the regular private key -> publickey -> wallet for faster generation?

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15:24 <AndyS2> Does anybody here know a paper on bitcoin blockchain validation performance?

15:24 <AndyS2> I'd like to read and cite something instead of creating my own numbers.

15:31 <nsh> maybe ask in #bitcoin-core-dev

15:34 <AndyS2> It's not urgent, but I will consider it if I can't find anything within a few days :)

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16:14 <nomoremusichere> I don't get why ZCash is not as popular as Monero. Doesn't it provide stronger cryptographic guarantees (privacy-wise)? And top researchers are working on it like Eli Ben-Sasson. Yet, it is sitting there and barely getting any traction whereas Monero is soaring. I am a lowly high-school student so to be honest, I do not pretend I understand the implementation of either technologies. I kinda get the math behind zk-sna

16:15 <nomoremusichere> I have a slightly better grasp on Monero's ring sigs

16:16 <nomoremusichere> So I guess my question is whether there is truth to the assertion I made and also is there work done to make Bitcoin "fungible" and more private or no? if no, why?

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16:17 <nomoremusichere> Context: organizing a semester long workshop/project at my school's CS club

16:17 <nomoremusichere> oh shit fluffypony is here :P hi!

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16:40 <andytoshi> nomoremusichere: because zcash has a trusted setup, so there is the potential for undetectable inflation. and because nobody actually uses its sheilded transactions because they're extremely computationally expensive to make, and they're optional

16:40 <andytoshi> it therefore has a much smaller privacy set than monero

16:41 <andytoshi> monero transactions take tens of milliseconds to create, not multiple minutes

16:42 <nomoremusichere> but long-term, wouldn't developments in PCPs + special-purpose hardware make those way cheaper to generate? and so you could have 100% shielded txs

16:42 <nomoremusichere> it's already cheap to verify as I understand it

16:42 <andytoshi> sure, but that's not what zcash is

16:42 <nomoremusichere> true true

16:43 <nomoremusichere> and ring-signatures offer the same level of privacy?

16:43 <nomoremusichere> or are they "weaker"

16:43 <andytoshi> regarding privacy tech for bitcoin, there is a lot of work going toward that, see https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/scriptless-scripts-how-bitcoin-can-support-smart-contracts-without-smart-contracts/

16:43 <nomoremusichere> thanks for sharing

16:44 <andytoshi> nomoremusichere: well, first understand that monero has CT and stealth addresses which mean that all its outputs are uniformly random points. so with those features alone the only thing that could be visible is the shape of the transaction graph

16:45 <nomoremusichere> sorry, what do you mean by shape of tx graph?

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16:45 <andytoshi> monero further obscures this using ring signatures, which make it ambiguous which outputs are being spent my each input (i think each one has 3-5 possibilities, and tim ruffing has some new crypto that'll let them bump this up to 20ish i think)

16:45 <andytoshi> nomoremusichere: can we move to #bitcoin for a bit?

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16:45 <nomoremusichere> of course np

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17:23 <waxwing> https://rwc.iacr.org/2018/program.html

17:24 <waxwing> apparently andytoshi is going to give a talk on tumblebit deanonymisation. or trusted bitcoin discrete logs.

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17:24 <waxwing> :)

17:24 <andytoshi> lol

17:25 <andytoshi> yeah, they asked me to register and i haven't followed up on that .. i guess this is a not-no-subtle signal that i should get on it

17:25 <andytoshi> but i'll just being doing a "mimblewimble for non-blockchain cryptographers" talk, and i only have half an hour, so it's not gonna cover anything new

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17:57 <abomb> .

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20:33 <plopo_> helloo

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