#bitcoin-wizards on 2017-12-06 — irc logs at freenode.irclog.whitequark.org

2015-10-30 00:53 sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja

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01:13 * nsh reads up on Straus-Shamir and Pippinger exponentiation

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01:18 <sipa> nsh: i can explain - because both are pretty specific instantiations of generic algorithms

01:18 <nsh> oh yay

01:20 * bsm117532 would appreciate refs of nsh's readings...

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01:22 <nsh> https://cr.yp.to/papers/pippenger.pdf | https://sites.google.com/a/crypto.tw/doug/teaching/high-speed-cryptographic-engineering | https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/486e/573e23ad21623d6f4f7ff035b77e1db7b835.pdf

01:22 <sipa> i assume he's talking about the benchmark number apoelstra published for our multi-exponentiation algorithms

01:22 <sipa> or at least, those are the reason for looking into them

01:23 <nsh> aye

01:23 <bsm117532> Gotcha. I'm very excited about this work, we'll probably hold a journal club about it soon.

01:23 <sipa> give me a couple minutes

01:23 <nsh> oh, that'd be great bsm117532

01:23 <bsm117532> Sadly, I'm no longer in New York so this won't be a BitDevs event. I'm still getting plugged into the community in Boston.

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01:25 <bsm117532> BTW sipa, I think you guys kind of buried the lede with respect to your focus on range proofs, as there seems to be a whole lot more that can be done with bullet proofs than just range proofs.

01:26 <sipa> bsm117532: i wasn't even aware of the work until a week or two before!

01:26 <bsm117532> Hahaaa the life of a crypto rockstar :-P

01:26 <nsh> also the circuit stuff is mainly unimplemented afaik

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01:27 <sipa> i commented here a bit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7d5zbc/finally_real_privacy_for_bitcoin_transactions/dpvbocv/

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01:40 <nsh> this thread by Hal is good on the practical application of the endomorphism on secp256k1 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3238.0

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01:52 <sipa> nsh: that thread inspired me to write libsecp256k1

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01:52 <nsh> oh, neat!

01:52 <sipa> it was initially an experiment to see what speedup secp256k1's endomorphism could achieve

01:53 <nsh> hah :)

01:53 <sipa> it was only later that the endomorohism was made ootional

01:53 * nsh nods

01:53 <bsm117532> sipa: Are there plans afoot to convert the CT in Elements to bulletproofs? Seems like a hard fork, no?

01:54 <kanzure> you mean the code in secp256k1-zkp?

01:57 <sipa> bsm117532: yes,so?

01:57 <sipa> hf'ing a dev platform isn't very hard

01:57 <bsm117532> Yeah, so are there plans to convert it to bulletproofs?

01:58 <bsm117532> I've long been concerned that our ZKP tech was insufficiently advanced, and things like Zcash would quickly be leapfrogged by faster/better ways to do ZKPs... but anyhoo...

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01:59 <sipa> i expect we will, but there are challenges

01:59 <sipa> as buleltproofs combined with confidential assets isn't clear yet

01:59 <bsm117532> I see

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05:37 <sipa> nsh: here?

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10:58 <nsh> sorry sipa, fell asleep. feel free to explain still if you like. (just off to sign my [bail] ledger)

10:58 <nsh> reading your post btw waxwing. thanks for writing it!

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15:38 <nickler> nsh: I'd recommend http://diamond.boisestate.edu/~liljanab/MATH308/GuideToECC.pdf chapter 3.3 as an introduction. https://eprint.iacr.org/2012/549.pdf page 15 is the simplified pippenger version that's used in libsecp https://github.com/jonasnick/secp256k1/blob/9d078fa4cd9be5d9efe29063d39c17a81ba1c5f0/src/ecmult_impl.h#L614

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16:00 <nsh> thanks kindly, nickler :)

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17:10 <cluelessperson> Question about transactions. Are they validated by the node as "possible" the second they are visible?

17:10 <cluelessperson> and is the mempool all re-evaluated again when a new block comes through?

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17:45 <waxwing> nsh, happy if it helps ... one day i'd like to come back to it and understand it a bit better. it's for sure fascinating though.

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17:53 <instagibbs> cluelessperson, thats #bitcoin kind of q

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19:03 <jjw78> anyone alive

19:03 <jjw78> =)

19:03 <sipa> no.

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19:04 <jjw78> Know much about multibitclassic wallets?

19:04 <waxwing> jjw78, #bitcoin for that

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