<carl0s>
pointfree, hi, on the rpt file, on the detailed placement report, those signal names are coloured in blue. BTW forgot to report my tries to use the directive to fit the XOR, i was not able to do so ;(
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<pointfree>
carl0s, when looking for ways to constrain the XOR gate LUT I saw signals such as \LUT_1:tmp__LUT_1_ins_1\ ...because it's tmp (temporary) it may not stick.
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<carl0s>
well, i guess the warp tool is smart enough (more than me) to place it. Did you found the signals you were looking for?
<carl0s>
also, i found a file $(proj_name).v on the codegentemp directory, it's the verilog representation of the schematic, i don't know if you saw it b4, there's also the bitstream in ascii format
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<digshadow-s>
rqou: yeah
<digshadow-s>
I think I took some
<digshadow-s>
or maybe that was seanriddle?
<digshadow-s>
let me look
<digshadow-s>
oogun also took some
<rqou>
private? google isn't finding them
<digshadow>
looking
<digshadow>
I'm having trouble finding them on pr0n
<digshadow>
let me check private collection
<digshadow>
okay just ofund the ogoun data
<digshadow>
I have a copyright release from him
<rqou>
do you have an estimate of how many people are hoarding/sitting on NOS parts?
<digshadow>
so if its not on pr0n already, I can push it
<digshadow>
ha I don't know
<digshadow>
I believe though
<digshadow>
we have shots of sc-01 and sc01a
<digshadow>
one was taken by me, other by someone else
<digshadow>
(other being ogoun)
<digshadow>
rqou: what do you want to do with it?
<rqou>
no idea yet
<rqou>
i saw my two chips on ebay for an acceptable price
<rqou>
although you can't really tell them apart very well
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<digshadow>
I think thats metal gate
<digshadow>
there is no poly
<rqou>
ah
<rqou>
that makes much more sense
<rqou>
wouldn't it be super slow on an 80s process?
<digshadow>
isn't it an old chip?
<digshadow>
slow is reltaive
<digshadow>
this is a sound chip
<rqou>
true
<digshadow>
not a 20 GHz GPU
<qu1j0t3>
/b 16
<rqou>
wow i'm realizing that i still have no idea how to read this :P
<pie_>
azonenberg, just a quick sidetrack from what im actually doing right now, how do you learn to RE silicon? just learn how its done forwards and pattern match backwards?
<rqou>
if you're me, you sign up for a microfabrication course and cause all your classmates to wonder wtf you are doing there :P
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<rqou>
most[citation needed] people take microfabrication because they are doing research in it, not because of lulz/RE :P
<rqou>
digshadow: is the sc-01-a even built on a p-doped substrate at all?
<rqou>
or is it built on an undoped substrate?
<rqou>
in the bottom left i see labels for WELL, N+, and P+
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<rqou>
this process is so old and foreign :P
<azonenberg_hk>
rqou: lol
<azonenberg_hk>
and yes i am a lot more familiar with modern STI-based processes
<pie_>
azonenberg_hk, o/ whatcha doin in hk? conference?
<pie_>
this is probably an established method but i havent seen it anywhere yet, has anyone uploaded pictures of dies illuminated by different wavelengths of monochromatic light?
<pie_>
i dont think it is because i think lasers are also supposed to give light thats in phase...but maybe thats just the fancy ones
<rqou>
what are you trying to do by doing this? get a better idea of thickness?
<pie_>
idk just an idea i had
<azonenberg_hk>
pie_: meeting for work
<pie_>
oh
<pie_>
i see
<rqou>
we (UCB) has a device that measures the thickness of thin films by essentially doing that
<rqou>
it takes a monochromator and shines a specific wavelength of light on the sample and measures how much comes back
<pie_>
yeah funnily enough i learned about that recently now that you mention it :)
<pie_>
in class i mean
<azonenberg_hk>
pie_: ellipsometry you mean?
<rqou>
there's a name for this technique?
<azonenberg_hk>
Or is this based on measuring thin film interference
<rqou>
the thing i was talking about is just based on thin film interference
<rqou>
ellipsometry is much more advanced
<azonenberg_hk>
ah ok
<azonenberg_hk>
rpi had both available
<azonenberg_hk>
now that i think about it
<pie_>
to be fair it was rather tangential, i never did find out whether its an interferometric thing or something else :P (interferometers are cool yo)
<pie_>
(also optics is expensive as fuck)
<rqou>
yes
<rqou>
i took one optics class
<rqou>
(i didn't do too great in it)
<rqou>
optics is amazingly cool stuff
<pie_>
my computer decided to stop computering for a bit there, whatd i miss
<pie_>
also, UCB?
<rqou>
UC Berkeley
<rqou>
or as whitequark likes to call it, $FANCY_SCHOOL :P
<whitequark>
rqou: i've been watching chinese action movies on the airplane.
<whitequark>
they are... for the lack of a bettter world, wild
<whitequark>
i'm going to watch only chinese action movies from now on
<rqou>
lol
<rqou>
hk ones or mainland ones?
<whitequark>
i'm not sure.
<whitequark>
the ones i got were skiptrace and from macau to vegas iii
<whitequark>
the former is hk i think
<whitequark>
and the latter is both according to wikipedia?
<rqou>
yeah these are hk ones
<rqou>
hk action movies are great
<rqou>
btw you can't even tell the difference between cantonese and mandarin?
<rqou>
:P
<whitequark>
I don't think I've ever heard much mandarin in the first place
<whitequark>
whereas my reaction to hearing cantonese at departure was "oh, finally"
<whitequark>
so...
<whitequark>
(I like how it sounds ok)
<rqou>
um, mtr plays all automated announcements in cantonese, mandarin, and english
<whitequark>
yeah, mtr is the only place where i've heard it i think
<rqou>
i thought the airport sometimes did?
<whitequark>
and that seems to be not enough samples to reliably factor it out
<whitequark>
the airport too but everything non-english in airports doesn't pass my brain firewall anyway
<rqou>
lol
<whitequark>
too much noise
<rqou>
nerdy way to distinguish: mandarin cannot have stop consonants in the coda
<whitequark>
I really hate how they play the automated message about some stupid disease every 10 minutes
<whitequark>
thats probably the best way to make sure I will never think of it
<azonenberg_hk>
My Delta flight had announcements in 3 languages
<azonenberg_hk>
English and two asian-sounding languages
<azonenberg_hk>
Assuming cantonese and mandarin but i cant speak either so cannot confirm :p
<whitequark>
the aeroflot flight had ru_RU, en_US and zh_HK
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<rqou>
btw SFO loves to play automated announcements about looking for suspicious activity
<azonenberg_hk>
Every airport does
<azonenberg_hk>
sfo more so?
<rqou>
because *terrorists*!!!!!1111oneone
<rqou>
:P
<whitequark>
every? I don't recall those announcements actually
<whitequark>
except in the US
<rqou>
SFO seems to do it more
<azonenberg_hk>
i have heard such things at every american airport or train station i've ever been to
<azonenberg_hk>
even some ferries
<rqou>
yeah, the US loves security theater
<rqou>
btw German airport security is super careful (at least the last time I was there)
<rqou>
I bought some lockpicks at CCC and had them in my carry-on
<rqou>
and the X-ray operator in Hamburg noticed, searched and found them, and asked the supervisor if they were allowed
<rqou>
(they are)
<whitequark>
what impressed me about German airport security is how polite they are
<whitequark>
when you go through TSA you can feel how they mentally violate your every pore
<azonenberg_hk>
rqou: they're german
<azonenberg_hk>
of course they're meticulous about such things :p
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<rqou>
so when my family goes to Europe over Christmas I'm going to try to smuggle some "banned items" back. chances are US CBP won't even notice :p
<rqou>
"banned items" include
<rqou>
kinder eggs
<rqou>
non-pasteurized cheese
<rqou>
:p
<whitequark>
to be fair kinder eggs don't light up the xray screen like a christmas tree
<whitequark>
small pieces of metal have really striking contours from what i've seen
<rqou>
afaik CBP doesn't even check for this stuff until after landing where there's no X-ray machine
<whitequark>
oh, they don't have xray scanners?
<rqou>
and because I'm not an old granny returning from China they're unlikely to check for banned food :p
<azonenberg_hk>
lool
<rqou>
they probably have scanners on the way in, but they don't scan everybody
<rqou>
only if they're suspicious of you
<rqou>
btw I've seen old ladies just ignore the scanner at HK<->SZ crossings and not get stopped
<whitequark>
lol
<whitequark>
honestly this is pretty typical
<rqou>
they might be cracking down on that though due to too much iDevice smuggling
<rqou>
:p
<whitequark>
the building in which our HK office is has security personnel
<whitequark>
they will stop you and ask to sign some stupid shit if you look like you can be stopped, otherwise they will not even try
<whitequark>
#welldone
<whitequark>
also like half of the time I walk there past midnight and they are snoring in the cubicle
<rqou>
supposedly though HK police/customs are really street smart and can often detect suspicious people
<rqou>
and HK/CN doesn't really care about accusations of profiling :p
<whitequark>
rqou: I got a letter from HK IRS today
<whitequark>
turns out they are LOWERING my tax rate for 2016/17
<rqou>
interesting
<whitequark>
by, like, 28%
<whitequark>
I mean uh
<rqou>
lowering the rate or just dropping you into a different bracket?
<whitequark>
nope, same salary, lower rate
<rqou>
that's unusual
<whitequark>
I'm slightly surprised
<rqou>
i don't know too much about HK taxes though
<rqou>
I don't have to pay any :P
<whitequark>
it looks like they made the bracket larger
<whitequark>
it went from 120k to 132k
<whitequark>
so that considerably reduced my chargeable income
<rqou>
unlike the US, HK doesn't try to tax income earned abroad
<whitequark>
well yeah US is insane in that way
<whitequark>
another reason not to be an US citizen ;p
<rqou>
US and Eritrea :P
<whitequark>
lol wait
<whitequark>
just these two?
<rqou>
i think so
<whitequark>
amazing
<azonenberg_hk>
whitequark: give it a few years
<azonenberg_hk>
wait till one of trump's wealthy oil baron friends complains to him about his excessive taxes
<whitequark>
azonenberg_hk: you mean eritrea is going to cease double taxation?
<azonenberg_hk>
and that may go away :p
<whitequark>
ehh I think all the oil baron friends already have schemes
<rqou>
anyways, it's somewhat unfair because i don't pay HK taxes but I've used their healthcare system :P
<whitequark>
and some simply renounced citizenship
<lain>
one of mom's friends, I forget the exact circumstances but he was born with dual citizenship US + Canada and has always lived in Canada. his family is wealthy and he is well-to-do, but I think his father passed away early in his life or something? I forget the details, but basically he grew up in canada and never knew he had to pay US taxes because of his dual-citizenship
<whitequark>
maybe you americans should just fire your entire administration and bring in the people who run hk?
<lain>
somewhat recently they caught up with him and were saying he owes like SO MUCH (I don't know how much, but I would guess it's high six or low seven figures) in back taxes
<lain>
and he's like "...wat"
<lain>
took quite a while to sort that mess out
<rqou>
whitequark: including brilliant people like 長毛 ("Long Hair", Leung Kwok-hung)? :P
<whitequark>
"Leung's key campaigns include universal suffrage, workers' rights and welfare for the less well off. His political agenda includes introduction of a liveable minimum wage, comprehensive social security, collective bargaining and taxing speculative business."
<rqou>
(this was the "oath of office" drama)
<whitequark>
I mean
<whitequark>
I'm not sure why not
<rqou>
it's not the platform but the stupid antics
<whitequark>
I'd say better be a fan of che guevara than screw children or something
<whitequark>
as far as MPs go
<whitequark>
I'll take him
<rqou>
i can't find too many good video clips, but i'm not a fan of how much HK's pro-democracy groups cause drama and act unprofessionally
<whitequark>
do they beat each other's faces on live TV during parliament sessions
<rqou>
not quite that bad
<whitequark>
by which I mean even if they do, it merely means they are as unprofessional as russian MPs but have a better platform
<whitequark>
do you see what I mean
<rqou>
i thought that was just UA :P
<rqou>
RU as well?
<whitequark>
sure
<whitequark>
as if there's that much difference
<whitequark>
unrelated: the stupidest thing in the world is how there's no standard USSD to query balance
<whitequark>
USSD number
<rqou>
it's not always applicable
<rqou>
many US cellular plans are postpaid
<whitequark>
ugh
<whitequark>
can we just ignore the US in standards processes if they ignore everyone else anyway
<cr1901_modern>
I actually like Fahrenheit compared to Celsius
<whitequark>
I prefer Kelvins for that matter
<azonenberg_hk>
I use F for ambient temps and C for everything else
<rqou>
google says mikan tsumiki from dangan ronpa
<cr1901_modern>
Reminds me of Konata from Lucky Star, except with more than 10 minutes of effort put into it
<lain>
what rqou said
<rqou>
great, ##openfpga is #anime again
<rqou>
:P
<lain>
haha, Lucky Star was a fun one. I still haven't seen the anime that foxgirl is from... slowly working through the backlog lol
<lain>
it will never end ;-;
<cr1901_modern>
##openfpga is always #anime
<lain>
https://🅱🅾🅾🅱.lain.land
<lain>
on the one hand, I understand converting to punycode upon visiting a site is important for security reasons, but it certainly takes some of the fun away
<rqou>
if you look at my whois i'm not on an emoji domain but i'm on a rather interesting IDN domain
<lain>
oh nice
<lain>
XD
<cr1901_modern>
My browser isn't even rendering the chars properly, so...
<cr1901_modern>
It's "four square boxes" dot lain dot land
<rqou>
i finally no longer have a reason to call LE hypocritical and <troll>problematic</troll>
<lain>
the client in freebsd ports doesn't have the patch yet but the service supports it so I just commented out the anti-punycode check :V
<rqou>
it doesn't work if your TLD is an IDN
<lain>
ahhh
<rqou>
hence "problematic" :P
<rqou>
hilariously enough, i tried previously to get a cert via startcom
<rqou>
asked them to enable the xn--j6w193g tld via their support
<lain>
startcom is problematic for other reasons :D
<rqou>
and then got a silent failure when i actually tried it
<lain>
lol
<rqou>
startcom has always been both problematic and <troll>problematic</troll>
<lain>
yes
<rqou>
LE is ostensibly not supposed to be
<lain>
man. all the <emoji>.tld are taken :P
<rqou>
i'm sad that emoji display as punycode in browsers
<lain>
yeah
<lain>
I get it, for security reasons, but it is sad times
<azonenberg_hk>
lain: what about mobile browsers?
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<azonenberg_hk>
can you send someone http://[poop].com/ and have it render properly in the sms as a clickable link?
<rqou>
anyways, if only emoji displayed in urls "🐉.龍.龖.龘.香港" would be an awesome domain :P
<azonenberg_hk>
whats that?
<azonenberg_hk>
i see [box].[chinese characters]
<rqou>
[dragon emoji].[traditional chinese character for dragon].[character with two "dragon" characters side-by-side].[character with three "dragon" characters in a triangle].[Hong Kong]
<azonenberg_hk>
lool
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<rqou>
btw buying [character with three "dragon" characters in a triangle].[Hong Kong] is a pretty great deal
<rqou>
you get [character with two "dragon" characters side-by-side].[Hong Kong] for free
<lain>
haha
<rqou>
because [character with two "dragon" characters side-by-side] is considered the simplified version of [character with three "dragon" characters in a triangle]
<azonenberg_hk>
What does that character actually mean?
<rqou>
it's an archaic character nobody actually uses :P
<rqou>
supposedly means "a vista of a dragon in flight"
<rqou>
it's (one of) the unicode BMP characters with the most strokes
<azonenberg_hk>
lol
<azonenberg_hk>
yeah i knew that from you before
<azonenberg_hk>
but i didnt know what the translation was
<lain>
azonenberg_hk: both firefox and chrome for android convert it to punycode in the url bar
<azonenberg_hk>
lain: yes but in the sms window
<azonenberg_hk>
does it show up as a clickable link with an emoji in it?
<azonenberg_hk>
And can you type the emoji into the url bar and have it go through?
<lain>
I think so, but as soon as you actually visit, it'll convert it to punycode
<lain>
hmm no
<rqou>
works for me on android
<lain>
I just sent myself an sms with one of my emoji domains and it only made the stuff after the emoji clickable, despite putting https:// in front
<rqou>
i sent myself [poop].la and it works
<rqou>
annoyingly, the .hk registry is very careful to avoid footguns and phishing attacks
<lain>
it doesn't show as clickable for me in the txt app
<lain>
this is under android 6.0
<rqou>
it does for me on 7
<lain>
ah
<rqou>
anyways, under .hk you cannot register *simplified/traditional variants of domains (the first person who registers one gets all the variants) *anything that isn't a character *japanese characters
<rqou>
it's like they don't want you to abuse it or something :P
<azonenberg_hk>
rqou: lol
<lain>
hm
* lain
cnames pickaxe emoji subdomain to minecraft server
<azonenberg_hk>
loolo
<rqou>
blargh just got another fail from namecheap
<rqou>
tried to get xn--fz5l.ninja
<lain>
I'm guessing that's the chinese character for ninja? :P
<rqou>
[chinese character with *four* dragon characters arranged in a square].ninja
<lain>
ah
<lain>
quadruple dragon
<rqou>
apparently it means "verbose" :P
<lain>
haha
<lain>
seems appropriate
<lain>
bah, I should shower and get some food
<rqou>
i hate registrars
<rqou>
why do they all suck so hard?
<rqou>
also, namecheap 2fa is a huge fail considering how important it is
<rqou>
it's SMS only
<lain>
yeahhhh
<lain>
it's better than no 2fa, but I'd prefer u2f or totp
<rqou>
i use totp with a yubikey
<lain>
same
<rqou>
due to incomplete u2f support
<rqou>
this brings me to: why do smartcards all suck so hard?
<rqou>
javacard is an awful platform
<rqou>
and everything has worthless documentation due to secrecy
<rqou>
and they're slow and not necessarily auditable
<rqou>
at some point i should try dpa on one just to see if it _really_ has countermeasures
<rqou>
azonenberg_hk: thoughts?
<azonenberg_hk>
rqou: i would love to see a sane smartcard platform
<azonenberg_hk>
IMO if you arent willing to document your system i dont trust it
<azonenberg_hk>
:p
<rqou>
i've heard of all sorts of countermeasures from meshes on top metal down to custom-drawn lower-side-channel-emission transistor layouts but have no idea how much of this is true
<azonenberg_hk>
i've seen top level meshes
<azonenberg_hk>
have not done extensive analysis beyond that
<rqou>
so what's the deal with DPA countermeasures?
<rqou>
i've seen some papers on algorithmic tweaks
<rqou>
is that more common or is somehow obscuring the useful signals with noise more common?
<azonenberg_hk>
rqou: the best option is to do masking of some sort
<azonenberg_hk>
so that there isnt a useful power signature
<azonenberg_hk>
by doing some invertible transformation on the data
<rqou>
yeah, that's what the papers i saw talked about
<rqou>
is that sufficient by itself?
<azonenberg_hk>
i mean ideally you want no power signature at all with fully differential logic
<azonenberg_hk>
but getting truly equal power that way is HARD
<azonenberg_hk>
probably requires hand layout and exacting matches of load on P/N legs
<cr1901_modern>
Why is that "HARD"?
<cr1901_modern>
Setting aside that I forget how to do it, load matching is something that's taught in an EE curriculum
<cr1901_modern>
I suppose what you call hard, I call "an absolute tedious pain in the ass"
<azonenberg_hk>
cr1901_modern: Doing it for a complex standard cell circuit
<azonenberg_hk>
where you need exactly the same wire length
<azonenberg_hk>
and diff pairs everywhere
<azonenberg_hk>
also gotta run
<azonenberg_hk>
nontrivial
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<nats`>
<rqou> is that more common or is somehow obscuring the useful signals with noise more common? <= adding noise is pointless
<nats`>
noise and random signal are exactly what you can easily remove by running more and more test
<rqou>
i thought the way it worked was you add noise until "more and more tests" take too long to be practical
<nats`>
doing constant time math can already help and you can try to do some trickery to always switch the same amount of current
<nats`>
using mirror etc
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<rqou>
aaaand LE finally allows me to get https on my idn domain
<rqou>
finally not "problematic" :P
<rqou>
now i just need to update znc to a build that does not use their totally insane unified pem
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<lain>
lol
<rqou>
have you seen how znc stores keys?
<rqou>
it has a giant .pem that is a concatenation of the private key, the certificate, and the diffie-hellman parameters
<rqou>
all in one very-high-footgun-potential file
<lain>
never used znc before
<lain>
that sounds awful
<rqou>
latest versions have it split sanely
<mtp>
that's good to hear
<rqou>
but it's not packaged so i have to build it