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<rqou> digshadow-s: so after digging through my parents junk bin i found a bunch of deactivated china mobile sim cards you can decap
<rqou> i wonder if they use the same chip vendors as "western" sims
<rqou> or if china has to do their own thing as usual
<rqou> (i assume you already have plenty of at&t/vzw/cingular sims :P )
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<cr1901_modern> azonenberg: This is a stupid question, but in Kicad, is it possible to do part of your schematic, start laying out parts, then go back to schematic, then update layout/PCB?
<cr1901_modern> Prob about time for me to actually start laying out stuff
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<cyrozap> cr1901_modern: Yup
<cyrozap> You just have to re-generate the netlist, then load it in Pcbnew. There's options to change footprints, etc.
<azonenberg_hk> So i'm getting back in the openfpga game fwiw
<azonenberg_hk> Starting to bang out the remaining missing gp4 features
<azonenberg_hk> working on a private fork for now on a burner laptop and will merge when i get home from this trpi
<azonenberg_hk> trip*
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<rqou> so paranoid azonenberg_hk :P
<rqou> i've never been searched in HK
<rqou> (but then i'm chinese so that helps?)
<azonenberg_hk> rqou: i would assume americans are subject to extra scrutiny
<azonenberg_hk> hotels frequented by overseas folks bugged, etc
<rqou> i saw a pakistani guy take forever at immigration once :P
<azonenberg_hk> worse in mainland but we're going to treat HK as espionage city too
<azonenberg_hk> It's IT's policy, not mine
<rqou> oh i never stayed in HK hotels
<rqou> and everytime i was in mainland my father would choose a non-touristy hotel
<azonenberg_hk> Yeah i mean i'm not going to let the thing out of my sight but i still assume its gonna get pwned
<azonenberg_hk> When i get home the lab is gonna have their annual thermite party
<azonenberg_hk> to get rid of all of the defcon phones etc
<azonenberg_hk> Also fwiw i got stopped by US customs before even leaving the country lol
<azonenberg_hk> Random check of every N passengers to see how much currency they were carrying on them
<balrog> azonenberg_hk: just sell them off on ebay after erasing :p
<azonenberg_hk> Didn't touch the laptop though, they just wanted money
<azonenberg_hk> balrog: but thermite is so much more fun
<azonenberg_hk> and an ancient thinkpad isnt really worth selling
<azonenberg_hk> this came out of the it dept "headed for the dumpster" pile
<azonenberg_hk> the ssd has a zillion bad sectors etc
<azonenberg_hk> they re-issued it to me to get one last month of use out of it
<azonenberg_hk> hoping it holds together that long :p
<whitequark> azonenberg_hk: yo, welcome to hk
<rqou> hmm i actually brought my real phone/laptop to defcon
<rqou> hopefully no pwnage?
<whitequark> my new flight is today (utc) su212 fwiw
<azonenberg_hk> rqou: i brought my real phone because i was headed to other stuff later
<azonenberg_hk> but i left it off and in my pocket the whole time
<azonenberg_hk> never let it out of my sight
<azonenberg_hk> and it was FDE'd
<azonenberg_hk> i used a burner at the con
<azonenberg_hk> whitequark: i'm over siberia
<rqou> i made sure i updated everything right before heading in
<azonenberg_hk> my flight was delayed, ETA around 2100 HK
<rqou> hopefully no android 7 zero-days were dropped at defcon?
<azonenberg_hk> whitequark: you?
<azonenberg_hk> rqou: i brought a cheap burner and expected it to get pwned
<azonenberg_hk> but i didnt GAF
<azonenberg_hk> all i used it for was google maps and texting coworkers about dinner/party plans
<whitequark> azonenberg_hk: oh you're not *in* hk yet despite the nick
<azonenberg_hk> nothing worth stealing:p
<rqou> does anyone here do "scene" stuff enough to tell me what to do next? :P
<whitequark> my eta is 2016-12-07 1045 HKT
<rqou> cr1901_modern: you do "scene" stuff right? :P
<azonenberg_hk> whitequark: I'm at FL360, just crossed over from the east siberian sea to land
<azonenberg_hk> east-west about midway between Anadyr and Magadan
<azonenberg_hk> but on the north coast
<whitequark> azonenberg_hk: you severely overestimate my knowledge of geography of siberia
<azonenberg_hk> Great-circle route from SEA -> HKG basically skirting around the east-north-west side of the pacific
<whitequark> ah that makes sense
<azonenberg_hk> And those were the only two cities that showed up on the in-flight map nearby :p
<azonenberg_hk> you know the big peninsula coming down south from the eastern end of siberia? by petropavlovsk?
<whitequark> yeah I looked it up on the map :p
<rqou> you mean where the soviets shot down a korean air plane a long time ago? :P
<azonenberg_hk> Take the spot where that peninsula hits the mainland, go due north until you hit the east siberian sea
<azonenberg_hk> rqou: lol well the soviets aren't around anymore
<azonenberg_hk> and my flight path doesnt go over the ukraine
<azonenberg_hk> so i shooould be good
<cr1901_modern> rqou: What the hell is "scene" stuff? I'm not part of any demoscene groups, if that's what you're asking
<azonenberg_hk> whitequark: I'm working on gp4 latch support right now
<azonenberg_hk> btw
<azonenberg_hk> instantiation only, gonna have to work with clifford to infer from behavioral RTL
<azonenberg_hk> but at least i can get the back end working
<rqou> cr1901_modern: you follow console hacking, right?
<azonenberg_hk> cr1901_modern: kinda like goth or emo culture?
<cr1901_modern> Yea, but I rarely *do* console programming.
<azonenberg_hk> :P
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<cr1901_modern> azonenberg_hk: Yes. Exactly like that.
<rqou> do you know anything about ps2 hacks/exploits?
<azonenberg_hk> cr1901_modern: i had to, lol
<cr1901_modern> rqou: No, and as a rule of thumb: If it's newer than N64, I'm not interested in its internals :P.
<rqou> ah ok
<rqou> i bet you can still appreciate the "interesting" wiring job though :P
<azonenberg_hk> cr1901_modern: i pretty much draw my line at processes using CMP
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<azonenberg_hk> in large part because i find nmos and non-planarized layout very hard to read
<azonenberg_hk> vs machine-routed cmos
<rqou> i was referring to the first photo here: https://goo.gl/photos/vomAiCfC8obhw3iZA
<rqou> a ps2 network adapter disassembled and plugged into an ide->sata adapter
<rqou> plugged into an hdd sitting on top of the console
<rqou> apparently the cheapo amazon adapter doesn't fit properly :P
<rqou> oh and the console is upside down
<rqou> :P
<rqou> unfortunately the modem is now missing. how will i wardial now? :P
<cr1901_modern> azonenberg_hk: By internals, I think rqou was talking about address space, and how h/w components are connected, etc
<cr1901_modern> My gripes about modern things being not fun to analyze also extend to that
<rqou> i was thinking basic stuff like "how does one actually install custom code on this thing?"
<rqou> there's so many random acronyms and copyright-violating code blobs involved
<azonenberg_hk> lol
<azonenberg_hk> yeah i dislike consoles in general
<azonenberg_hk> i avoid them as much as i can
<rqou> there was linux for the ps2 at one point in time
<rqou> as in, an official sony product
<cr1901_modern> azonenberg_hk: Why is that?
<azonenberg_hk> cr1901_modern: it's a wimpy PC that doesn't let me run whatever i want on it
<azonenberg_hk> runs a binary blob OS
<azonenberg_hk> generally seems like it does nothing that a pc can't do better
<cr1901_modern> azonenberg_hk: That's true today. Wasn't true before 2000's.
<cr1901_modern> A PC in 1991 could *NOT* do what the SNES could do (wrt 2D games).
<cr1901_modern> One can prob blame "it was the CPU's responsibility to do all video stuff back then" lol
<azonenberg_hk> cr1901_modern: started with the xbox
<azonenberg_hk> My point is, at this point intime
<azonenberg_hk> i see no reason to buy a console, or develop for one
<cr1901_modern> Well I agree w/ you then. That doesn't retroactively make older consoles worthless ;)
<azonenberg_hk> Its just a wimpy pc you cant upgrade or use for anything but gaming
<azonenberg_hk> and i hope the console market disappears at some point :p
<cr1901_modern> It prob will if they don't innovate. Do something a PC isn't well suited for. That's why I find Switch interesting
<rqou> this is totally what is supposed to exist, right?
<cyrozap> Anyone here ever used Macrofab?
<azonenberg_hk> cyrozap: lain recommends them last i heard
<azonenberg_hk> ask her for details
<cyrozap> azonenberg_hk: Thanks!
<lain> yeah
<lain> macrofab are awesome
<rqou> wait lain are you the oshpark lain?
<lain> rqou: nope, that's laen (Neal, backwards)
<cr1901_modern> I've been thinking of using Macrofab for this board, but I also have someone whose willing to do multiple boards for me. So I need to compare prices
<cyrozap> lain: Do you know if they charge more for placing 0201 parts than 0402? Because the 0402s on the board I'm currently doing the layout for look enormous compared to the 7x7mm 80-ball BGA...
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<pointfree> I was also looking at Macrofab for a PSoC based electronics multitool project because they do everything including PCBs, assembly, and fulfillment to customers. The Netduino prototype was done with an order quantity of 1 and a cost of $35 for that one board, afaik.
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<lain> huh.
<cr1901_modern> Maybe I'll do one board w/ them to flush out glitches
<lain> cyrozap: that I don't know. I've discussed 0201 with them before and I got the impression the placement fee is the same as usual, but I don't think they go below 0201 currently
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<lain> cr1901_modern: they have a web interface that live-updates the quote based on your parameters (qty, etc). you can upload the layout and bom and verify the placement info, and it'll spit out a price
<lain> imo they've really nailed the ordering process
<cr1901_modern> lain: Ack. I'll keep that in mind once I get close to completion
<lain> it's seriously the best ordering experience I've had, the automation is lovely
<cyrozap> lain: Ok, that sounds promising. Would you also happen to know if they charge more for double-sided boards or not?
<lain> cyrozap: I don't think there's an upcharge for that. if there is, I didn't notice
<lain> ^ that's a sample design so you can play with their pcb workflow
<cyrozap> lain: Thanks!
<cyrozap> I'm trying to make this board not cost $200+...
<cyrozap> It would be nice if you could at least get an estimated placement cost just from the BoM, so you could optimize that early in the design process.
* lain nods
<lain> yeah
<lain> there's huge cost savings by choosing their House Parts
<lain> no placement fees for house parts
<lain> macrofab does isostick for me nowadays, manufacturing through to fulfillment
<lain> and we used them to make these prototypes: https://imgur.com/a/9acEC - although that was a special arrangement where Multech made the PCBs and sent them to macrofab. normally macrofab strongly prefers to handle the PCBs themselves
<lain> that was done before macrofab had all the stackup options on the pcb page. now that they have that, I wouldn't bother with a 3rd party pcb fab
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<cr1901_modern> Kicad thinks half of the components I'm using only exist in the cache again...
<cr1901_modern> Come the fuck on... why do my components keep getting eaten
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<cr1901_modern> Oh yes I remember now... it's because of the name conflict w/ an external library I'm using :D
<cr1901_modern> FML
<cr1901_modern> lain: I still like OSHPark's prices for 3, even if Macrofab does the whole shebang for 1 :P.
<lain> haha
<lain> yeah, if I'm comfortable doing assembly on something, oshpark generally wins
<cr1901_modern> I *want* to learn SMD assembly. But I'd rather this board work than me get practice.
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<lain> :3
<cr1901_modern> lain: Do you work for macrofab or something :P?
<lain> cr1901_modern: lol nope
<cyrozap> I just did a cost estimate and my PCB is only $43! Also, it looks like using 0201 parts requires "extended manufacturing", which "incurs a one-time charge per order".
<lain> aha
<lain> good to know
<lain> yeah I know they got some better pick&place machines recently, maybe they reserve those for orders with lots of fine-pitch components or 0201, etc
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<rqou> hey digshadow i have another offtopic/drama question for you :P
<rqou> do you have a ps2 mechacon firmware dump?
<rqou> or do you know if anyone does?
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<whitequark> rqou: azonenberg: *facedesk* so I booked a flight at 2017-01-06
<whitequark> shitty calendar widgets strike again
<whitequark> that delays me by one day; at least the one tomorrow is as cheap
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<digshadow> rqou: I do not, but thats probably better a PM question...
<rqou> yeah now that you mention it i can see how that question is far too loaded :P
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<rqou> whitequark: that mips FPU wtf
<rqou> who even comes up with that?
<rqou> don't know if better or worse than the ARM "just don't mix float ABIs" solution
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