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<pipework>
But who would want to use TypeScript?
<pipework>
Probably the same people who would even consider using rails on windows. Maybe some that wouldn't.
* benzrf
facepalms
<benzrf>
pipework: typescripts in this context are a form of terminal output recording
<benzrf>
like a text-based screencast
<benzrf>
most unices come with script(1) for making them
<pipework>
like a transcript?
<benzrf>
yea
<benzrf>
that may be the same thing
<benzrf>
script(1) also can generate timing files
<benzrf>
so that it plays back the same as it displayed
<benzrf>
i got a script/timing file pair in the Quick repo that shows how u use it
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<rasputin>
Can anyone tell me how I can "catch", althought it's not quite an exception, but anyway - how I can this: I set a bunch of limits (rlimit) in the parent, then execute a child process - the child process wants more than my limit has allowed it to have...
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<rasputin>
so it crashes - instead of a backtrace - I'd like to simply catch the child death as "child tried to use more cpu than allocated" or vmem, or whatever.
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<rasputin>
basically i don't have control over what the child processes do - so need to prevent them from bringing the system down, and be able to report back to the caller that this specific child was being naughty.
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<arubin>
How are you creating the child process?
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<RubyPanther>
"It is useful for students who need a hardcopy record of an interactive session as proof of an assignment, as the type‐ script file can be printed out later with lpr(1)"
<glide>
Ok. So the key is the year, and the value is an array?
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<combusean>
yeah.
<glide>
Ok. What's the benefit of putting them into a hash, if I have to make an array anyway?
<combusean>
well it depends on your source data
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<glide>
It's just a text document I copied and pasted into.
<s_e>
because this way you know the relationship of year to animal
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<s_e>
in a flat array, you have an implicit relationship based on the order of the items, but with a hashmap it's explicit
<combusean>
the idea is that you have your years and list of people, then you traverse that array to make a hash containing the user as the key and the value of years in the array
<combusean>
format the data and you're done
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<glide>
Hmm.
<glide>
s_e, implicit relationship between what? The entries in the array?
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<s_e>
glide: yeah, so in your flat array, you only know 'cats' was in 2004 because it's next to it in the array, but that relies on you knowing that in advance. In the hash, that information is clear to you
<glide>
s_e, but what if I move all slots in the big array to a smaller array named "2004" filled with only those entries?
<combusean>
erm, years_has.each_pair
<s_e>
glide: that's exactly what's happening in the hash
<glide>
Ok. I'm trying to grasp all this. Gimme a few seconds
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<glide>
combusean, so the keys are the attendees, the values are the years?
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<combusean>
in the first hash, the one that represents the data you have, years are the key and the array of attendees is the value
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<glide>
As an aside, this involves fundamental issues and concepts in programming, right?
<combusean>
um
<combusean>
you're transforming data
<combusean>
and you apparently just learned the hash data type today
<combusean>
:)
<glide>
Hehe. I think it was Tuesday :)
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<combusean>
so is a list of attendees and the years they showed up good enough?
<s_e>
you're making good progress :P
<glide>
combusean, I'd like to build on it so that I can see (a) who has attended most often, (b) who has attended in consecutive years, etc. Just playing around and learning mostly.
<glide>
s_e, thanks :)
<combusean>
try first making the data fit to the { year => [people] } data type
<combusean>
than that code snippet I gave you should let you transform it
<glide>
Ok.
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<olalonde>
hi all I kind of forgot how to use jekyll. I tried the "rake" command to get a list of rake tasks but getting this error: ake aborted!
<olalonde>
cannot load such file -- bundler/setup
<combusean>
did you run bundle before rake?
<olalonde>
no, oops
<olalonde>
zsh: command not found: bundle
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<olalonde>
I guess I need to "gem install bundle" ?
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<combusean>
gem install bundler yeah.
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<combusean>
depends on where your ruby's coming from.
<olalonde>
thanks
<glide>
combusean & s_e: thank you! I am going to work on this, read some documentation, and figure it out. Have a nice evening!
<olalonde>
it's the one that ships with OS X
<combusean>
that one is old and sucks
<olalonde>
I just use ruby to generate my blog :o
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<olalonde>
I guess the brew package would be more up to date?
<combusean>
oh wait, it's 2.0.0 in mavericks
<combusean>
no olalonde, if you're gonna be doing this seriously you need a ruby version manager
<olalonde>
yea, ruby 2.0.0p247
<olalonde>
well as I said, I just need ruby to generate my blog :P
<olalonde>
I'll use rvm when I need to do some ruby dev :)
<combusean>
ahh
<olalonde>
or w/e version manager is recommended nowadays
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<combusean>
yeah it shouldn't be too tough to upgrade or migrate
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<combusean>
when you get there :)
<olalonde>
:)
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<soahccc>
Hmm can I replace a folder with another using FileUtils? I thought #mv could do that but unfortunately "force: true" literally means "no error"… it just silently doesn't do anything if the target exists :(
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<shevy>
apparently Kernel somehow knows about them
<shevy>
ID lid = cfp->iseq->local_table[i];
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<winny>
is there a way to access top level variables from a function in ruby? example: http://sprunge.us/QeYD?rb gives NameError on a_var
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<danijoo>
@winny you could make the variable global
<danijoo>
$a_var = "hello world"
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<danijoo>
ant then in your method: puts $a_var
<winny>
I'm a big Ruby newbie, so a variable name starting with a dollar sign is a globally accessible variable?
<danijoo>
yeah
<danijoo>
$ = global
<danijoo>
@ = instance variable
<danijoo>
@@ class variable
<winny>
thanks!
<danijoo>
yw
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<certainty>
i say use globals for everything
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<certainty>
one global $arguments which has to be set before you invoke a method. It holds the arguments for that method so you don't have to pass them. You could also name it $stack
<certainty>
you should put the arguments in reverse order you want the method to receive them
<certainty>
then you can push the result of the method back to the stack
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<melvinram>
On http://www.ruby-doc.org/stdlib-2.1.1/libdoc/set/rdoc/Set.html, it mentions “Set assumes that the identity of each element does not change while it is stored. Modifying an element of a set will render the set to an unreliable state.” Does anyone have some code/article to illustrate this a bit more clearly?
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<shevy>
certainty aaaah
<shevy>
certainty why use $globals when you could use @@almost_globals!
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<certainty>
shevy: i like the adrenalin rush
<shevy>
lol
<shevy>
that's the funniest answer I've ever read in regards to pro or contra globals
<certainty>
:)
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<apeiros>
melvinram: it's the same as for hash keys
<apeiros>
melvinram: example:
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<apeiros>
>> require 'set'; ele = [1,2]; set = Set.new([ele]); ele << 3; set.include?(ele)
<apeiros>
the hash value is used to determine in which bucket the object is stored. on a lookup, identical hash values will lead to the same bucket. elements in the same bucket are then tested using .eql? to determine whether it's just a hash collision or indeed the same object
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<apeiros>
since your .hash value changes, Set/Hash ends up looking in the wrong bucket
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<gitt>
Hi guys. Just wanted some opinion - I have a class which is composed of (to abstract) another (which came in a gem). The gem class is heavily dependent upon an external resource. How could I effectively TDD the class I'd like to make?
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<apeiros>
gitt: faaar too vague
<apeiros>
I can give you an equivalently vague answer if you want…
<gitt>
I could check whether the gem class's methods are invoked, even with which parameters -- but I worry that my test would basically be duplicating the implementation there
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<apeiros>
why'd you want to test which methods on are invoked on the target?
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<apeiros>
test behaviour
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<apeiros>
that is, for a given input, you expect a given "output" (either return value or side-effect)
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<gitt>
apeiros: that's my point - that wouldn't seem proper; the "output" would require a list of objects that are created in the gem class based upon the response from the external resource (over HTTP)
<gitt>
apeiros: of course, I don't want to access the external resource - I'm not sure the appropriate strategy here
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<apeiros>
external resource: stub
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<apeiros>
you try to never depend on anything when you do an isolation test
<apeiros>
to achieve that, you stub out all dependencies
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<gitt>
apeiros: right - so I have: MyOuterClass --> GemClass --> [Unknown Gem Dependencies]
<gitt>
apeiros: essentially I just stub out the responses of GemClass that are requested from MyOuterClass, right?
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<apeiros>
gitt: yes
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<benzrf>
hey yo
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<shevy>
yo benzrf
<shevy>
docu docu docu
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<benzrf>
l8r
<shevy>
hehe
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<benzrf>
sup |jemc|
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<|jemc|>
hey
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<Emmanuel_Chanel>
Hello!
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<Emmanuel_Chanel>
I know ruby little.
<benzrf>
sup Emmanuel_Chanel
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<Emmanuel_Chanel>
I'm trying coding something with ruby.
<benzrf>
ok
<Emmanuel_Chanel>
I don't plan but I wonder if there is a way to code a ruby library without coding C or so.
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<certainty>
Emmanuel_Chanel: there is
<Emmanuel_Chanel>
I always use very many things with perl. So I feel it a bit hard to understand how to code in ruby.
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<apeiros>
Emmanuel_Chanel: C knowledge is not required to code ruby
<Emmanuel_Chanel>
Right.
<Emmanuel_Chanel>
When I search how to code a ruby library with Bing, the top hits are about coding with C. So I wondered.
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<certainty>
Emmanuel_Chanel: no need to wonder. There are many ruby libraries out there that don't involve C
<redmaverick>
If you have to search for the existence of 20 strings within in a 20 MB file how would you do it? Would use a database or grep it?
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<Emmanuel_Chanel>
certainty: ok.
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<jhass>
do you want to know if any of these exist or if all exist or do you want all that do exist?
<atmosx>
redmaverick: you should start benchmarking approaches and see what fits.
<jhass>
is RAM usage an issue? do you spawn a new ruby process per request or is it like a webapp or something?
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<redmaverick>
I am building a domain name suggestor. I am able to generate domain names based on user input. I have a huge domain name file and I need to tell the user if the domain name has been taken
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<jhass>
that sounds like you want that in a database
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<redmaverick>
wanted to use Redis but it is expensive on the cloud
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<certainty>
redmaverick: for which tlds do you do this?
<Emmanuel_Chanel>
certainty and so on: Is there a good page to teach how to make a ruby library?
<redmaverick>
certainty: only .com
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<shevy>
Emmanuel_Chanel a "library" in ruby is really mostly just a bunch of .rb files that reside in a lib/ directory, and usually have a common namespace
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<shevy>
Emmanuel_Chanel it will be easier if you already have finished writing some ruby files
<shevy>
after that you can easily change that to use a common namespace or package it up as a .gem release
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<Emmanuel_Chanel>
shevy: I haven't really finished coding something.
<redmaverick>
So user enters "detroit" and app generates "cooldetroit.com" "detroitcity.com". I have a text file cool.txt and city.txt which has all the domains registered so far with "cool" and "city"
<redmaverick>
cool.txt and city.txt are a few MB each.
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<certainty>
redmaverick: alright. So you have a list that gets updated on a regular basis that you use to check the availaility
<jhass>
redmaverick: I'd probably try if a sqlite database performs well
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<certainty>
redmaverick: i'd probably go with bdb, leveldb or somesuch
<redmaverick>
The list never gets updated.
<certainty>
never?
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<redmaverick>
yeah. This will give an approximate guess. The user needs to double click it to make sure that domain name is really available
<redmaverick>
Then I call who is directly.
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<certainty>
hmm i don't see why you don't update on a regular basis then. Naturally your cache miss ration will increase but even worse domains that are free again will be flagged as non free
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<certainty>
this will give you false positives
<Emmanuel_Chanel>
Nice page.
<certainty>
ratio
<redmaverick>
certainty: I will eventually do that. Now, I am prototyping. Can the sqlite db store 1.3 GB of data. RAM is an issue. The micro instance on amazon is 213 mb only.
<shevy>
that's quite a lot
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<redmaverick>
my plan is split 1.3 GB domain data into keyword.txt (like city.txt great.txt happy.txt etc) each of which is around 1 - 3 MB only.
<certainty>
shevy: i'd slurp the entire file in and store it in a global :)
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<redmaverick>
I think I would do that. Just keep the entire 20 MB in memory and check.
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<certainty>
redmaverick: not in a global of course. I wasn't serious with that one
<redmaverick>
certainty: ok.
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<Terminus>
hello. is there something in ruby like virtualenv in python? i just want to isolate libs to specific projects while using the ruby version that comes with the system.
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<Terminus>
rvm and rbenv both install a different ruby version right?
<jhass>
Terminus: you can use the system ruby with both (not sure about rbenv). The general concept you want to google is "gemset"
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<jhass>
note that bundler does a very good job at loading specific versions for an app without the need to install them all over again
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<Terminus>
jhass: yeah, i'm looking at bundler right now. the virtualenv feature that i'm really looking for is i can just do "source myapp/bin/activate" and when i do "pip install foo", everything is installed in "myapp" and the env is automatically modified to take that into account.
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<jhass>
well with bundler all you do is editing your Gemfile and running bundle and more importantly all your colleagues/contributors only need to do bundle since that file is checked into the repo
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<Terminus>
jhass: and running bundle with the Gemfile will automatically put all the gems in "myapp01", "myapp02", etc. with RUBYLIB modified?
<jhass>
you'd use your normal per user or system $GEM_HOME
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<jhass>
bundle is an alias to bundle install and ensures all the gems are installed
<Terminus>
i'm looking for more than just per user. i want to isolate on a per-project basis, within a single user.
<jhass>
but you can also pass it --path local_dir_typically_vendor and it will install and load gems to/from there
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<jhass>
bundler isolates the loading mechanism to the allowed gems, not the installation
<jhass>
at project level
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<Terminus>
jhass: i see... was hoping for both installation and loading isolation. i haven't decided yet if i can let go of isolating installation.
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<Terminus>
jhass: thanks for the answers. i guess i'll just have to try them all and see what works best for me. =)
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<jhass>
what is the pro of isolating installation?
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<Terminus>
jhass: that's why i haven't decided yet if it's important or not. =)
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<benzrf>
hey yo
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<The_NetZ>
benzrf: hey, skilled in extconf.rb-foo?
<The_NetZ>
see, from what I understand extconf.rb is useful mainly for making gem-type objects; what I want to do, is something along those lines that will compile my executable with embedded ruby (static linking, whatnot)
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<shevy>
extconf.rb can create a Makefile
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<The_NetZ>
shevy: ayup, I just need to know how to make it produce a ruby binary instead of shared object
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<havenwood>
The_NetZ: Have you looked at mruby?
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<The_NetZ>
havenwood: yes, but I'd rather not have a chopped down version
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<shevy>
Hanmac you are only wearing that cloak and nothing else, right?
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<The_NetZ>
shevy: lol.
<The_NetZ>
shevy: I know Hanmac, we're actually working on a similar sort of project.
<The_NetZ>
Mon_Ouie: probably -lruby-static, for my goals.
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<The_NetZ>
Mon_Ouie: at least on archlinux; not sure if other distros provide a static library to link in.
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<The_NetZ>
Hanmac: on that note, feel like talking?
* Hanmac
is currently reading fanfiction ... maybe at another time
<The_NetZ>
Hanmac: I bet its slashfiction XD
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<Hanmac>
nope, mostly crossover
<The_NetZ>
heh
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<The_NetZ>
Hanmac: might I ask which opengl library you're using?
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<Hanmac>
i used gosu, but it was not nice enoth ... then i switched to SFML
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<The_NetZ>
Hanmac: I'm using glfw; its like glut/freeglut in many ways, but I think I prefer it :P
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<The_NetZ>
Hanmac: was also using jsoncpp, but I figured I'd be better off using a marshalled ruby object to handle configurations.
<The_NetZ>
you know, to cut down on external libraries.
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<The_NetZ>
Hanmac: I believe you attempted to recruit me at some point; I'd like to make a counter-offer
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<Hanmac>
nah i still have to much to do ... and shevy would kill me if i abort rwx ;P
<shevy>
hehe
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<atmosx>
hello
<shevy>
hey atmosx
<shevy>
railsing on the weekend?
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<The_NetZ>
Hanmac: I was talking about the game :P
<atmosx>
shevy: nah, studying pharmacology, actually I should study... didn't study shit.
<atmosx>
shevy: I'll try tomorrow 6-12 am
<atmosx>
then another two hours in the afternoon then on Monday morning another 4 hours and I'll be fine
<shevy>
cool
<shevy>
you have to memorize drug structures as well?
<atmosx>
ah no no
<atmosx>
just drug and categories
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<atmosx>
and several side-effects, MoA and staff like that
<atmosx>
shevy: you studied chemistry or biology?
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<atmosx>
not pharmacy iirc
<The_NetZ>
atmosx: your name reminds me of the one I used long ago :P
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<atmosx>
The_NetZ: My nicknames online where: kinder, blade (this one stacked for years), then atma (this one was hard to get at any place I was hanging) and I ended up as 'atmosx'. Seemed rather unique :-)
<shevy>
atmosx biology years ago, these days chemistry
<CorySimmons>
hey guys, i'm trying to install the spree_cmd gem globally so i can use spree's (rails ecomm) command line tool a la their getting started tut (http://guides.spreecommerce.com/developer/getting_started_tutorial.html) but even if I gem install spree_cmd, spree comes back as an unknown command. any ideas?
<dorei>
atmosx: there's a trance music producer by the name atmos :p
<shevy>
atmosx I may have a larger pharmacognosy exam in perhaps half a year
<benzrf>
dorei: but it is atm osx
<atmosx>
CorySimmons: find / -name 'spree_cmd' would be a good start. Then check out if spree_cmd is in $PATH
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<atmosx>
CorySimmons: I get you're using something unix-like. If you are on windows I feel for you but I can't do more. Others might be able to help.
<CorySimmons>
on osx
<atmosx>
dorei: oh well, there's an 'x' between us
<atmosx>
CorySimmons: mdfind spree_cmd
<CorySimmons>
maybe i need to install with sudo
<atmosx>
CorySimmons: you used system-wide ruby?!
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<CorySimmons>
yeah this is my home machine i don't care if it gets polluted with system gems
<CorySimmons>
rarely use it
<CorySimmons>
atmosx: the find command is returning a ton of dirs with "permission denied" attached to them
<atmosx>
shevy: you're doing a master or Ph.D. or it's another bacherlos degree?
<atmosx>
CorySimmons: the mdfind?!
<CorySimmons>
atmosx: no
<CorySimmons>
the other one
<atmosx>
CorySimmons: if you are on OSX use mdfind, stop the other one
<CorySimmons>
mdfind returns one "/Users/cory/Dropbox/Projects/fireworks-store/Gemfile.lock"
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<atmosx>
CorySimmons: just that?
<CorySimmons>
this is for a gemfile in rails
<CorySimmons>
yea
<atmosx>
CorySimmons: you sure you installed spree_cmd ?
<shevy>
atmosx not for that exam in half a year, master in immunology at some point however, but it will be interrupted by work every now and then
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<atmosx>
a master in immunology
<atmosx>
good
<CorySimmons>
atmosx: I tried gem install spree_cmd from command line. the fireworks-store i added spree (not spree_cmd) to my gemfile
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<CorySimmons>
even trying to add spree_cmd to gemfile doesn't fix it
<CorySimmons>
now the mdfind returns /Users/cory/Dropbox/Projects/fireworks-store/Gemfile.lock; /Users/cory/Dropbox/Projects/fireworks-store/Gemfile
<atmosx>
I keep my proects dropbox synced too hehe some of them at least
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<CorySimmons>
:)
<CorySimmons>
i hear it's actually buggy sometimes
<CorySimmons>
haven't ran into it yet (maybe this is the first time)
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<shevy>
atmosx hmm can you sync from the commandline?
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<atmosx>
shevy: I think you can. But I wouldn't use dropbox anymore... I'd search through alternatives. I keep it for the time being because I'm too bored to configure wuala/spideroak
<atmosx>
or owncloud paying a premium for more ram on my vps
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<The_NetZ>
CorySimmons: find the binary's location, where you can do ./spree and get a result, then add that folder to $PATH.
<atmosx>
CorySimmons: but there must be a nicer way handled by rbenv... I use rvm so I wouldn't know really, rvm handles these things out of the box
<The_NetZ>
personally since switching to arch linux I've forgotten all my rvm stuffs, since we get the latest ruby almost immediatly :P
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* combusean
vouches for rvm
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<The_NetZ>
only reason I used it on *buntu is that was the only easyish way to have the latest ruby and jruby :P
<atmosx>
The_NetZ: well, getting the latest is not really the point. Having various version's depending on the project and specfici gemsets is important.
<atmosx>
The_NetZ: I like the flexibility
<combusean>
i haven't been exposed much to rbenv until coming in here and it seems like there's just issues with it.
<atmosx>
combusean: from my experience, most of these issues are due to lack of basic unix understanding (paths more specifically and how they work) on behalf of many ruby (especially rails) programmers
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<The_NetZ>
atmosx: true enough; its a useful tool when needed, but as I don't use much in the way of gems and I'm building my own extensions I have no use for it :P
<dorei>
linux + rvm :)
<atmosx>
The_NetZ: oh nice then
<atmosx>
linux osx freebsd... as long as it's not windows I'm good with it
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<benzrf>
why is rubinius not very widespread?
<benzrf>
is it just the plan 9 effect?
<certainty>
benzrf: probably. I like it though
<The_NetZ>
what is the plan 9 effect?
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<certainty>
The_NetZ: you know what plan9 is?
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<The_NetZ>
certainty: never heard of it.
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<arubin>
heh
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<centrx>
benzrf, Rubinius is kind of dead
<Veejay>
Rubinius (and JRuby for that matter) are not more widespread because they have much bigger a task than MRI. Basically they work on a floating "spec" which is really thousands of C lines
<arubin>
centrx: How so?
<benzrf>
o=
<certainty>
The_NetZ: :) an operating system that has some neat ideas on how to make resources available
<Veejay>
And all the Ruby ecosystem is de facto MRI because of that
<Veejay>
certainty: The error message
<Veejay>
Goes: deploy.rb:27:in `join': No live threads left. Deadlock? (fatal)
<Veejay>
from deploy.rb:27:in `<main>'
<The_NetZ>
not to mention writing a java gem for jruby is as far as I can find far too much of a pain in the ass
<Veejay>
So I guess I'm joining on a thread that is already dead
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<Veejay>
Also, some perspective on what I'm trying to achieve with that: The example provided in the docs specifies the number of values sent to the queue, I want that to be arbitrary (i.e. not hardcoded)
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<Veejay>
And I would like to use popen in the producer threads to launch two commands, capture their output and send it to the queue
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<Veejay>
So that I can then later pop that off the queue and display that on the screen
<centrx>
arubin, Well, a month ago at least. Rubinius docs said it still only supported 1.8, and the one active developer said he was moving on to something else.
<BraddBitt>
does anyone know what command is issued in heroku when you push new code?
<BraddBitt>
some terminating signal/command but im not sure which
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<arubin>
centrx: It supports 1.9.x and 2.x.
<centrx>
arubin, It says that now
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<arubin>
centrx: There is a blog post from months ago stating that.
<jhass>
Veejay: ^ okay eval-in doesn't like threads, but if you try that you'll see that joining a dead thread is no issue
<Veejay>
OK
<centrx>
arubin, Rubinius 2.0 is expected to be compatible with Ruby 2.1. That sounds like pre-release.
<centrx>
arubin, And at that time, the docs still said 1.8.7
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<Veejay>
jhass: mmm, OK. I'm still getting an error though, there must be something in that code that isn't right
<arubin>
centrx: Well, it is being actively developed.
<arubin>
centrx: Brian just gave a talk and did a hack night here recently.
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<certainty>
Veejay: apparently this happens if you pop more messages in the consumer than you push in the producer. I currently don't know why. I would expect the consumer to just block then
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<centrx>
arubin, Brian "Ruby is a dying language" Shirai is almost the only developer
<Veejay>
Ah... Since I'm using while to pop I guess it pops one time too many
<certainty>
but 1) i don't know much about ruby threads 2) i'm probably too tired to notice the obvious
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<Veejay>
centrx: He only said that because he fears that the current statu quo will lead to Ruby dying from not being able to adapt
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<mumin>
ola
<Veejay>
"New" languages are emerging left and right with features that are enticing for people and he feels that MRI Ruby is not being steered in the right direction
<Veejay>
And probably frustrated because he feels non-MRI implems have solutions to offer that are not being given proper consideration
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<Veejay>
He's been working on Ruby for many years, real hard at that, it's not like he doesn't like the language
<centrx>
Veejay, It's a fashion mindset
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<centrx>
Veejay, His post was basically about not doing Ruby any more
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<centrx>
*Not doing Rubinius rather
<Veejay>
He was most likely frustrated and discouraged
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<jhass>
certainty: probably because all threads are in the blocking state ruby detects the deadlock
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<certainty>
i wish he would continue to write the documentation on rubinius' vm
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<arubin>
I believe that he is on vacation in Japan right now, but he is usually in #rubinius.
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<certainty>
jhass: hmm wouldn't it be possible to emulate that by putting a blocking read in the consumer and then trying to join it?
<centrx>
It makes it look like there is something wrong with the project if it takes six years to support 1.9/update the introduction to the docs to say it supports 1.9
<jhass>
certainty: emulate what? threads have different states, blocking means that they wait for some other thread to do something (so that he receives a notify that puts him into the waiting state). If all threads are blocking (join puts a thread in blocking too), none can send a notify and you got a deadlock
<momomomomo>
the january post centrx ?
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<momomomomo>
Sounds like they’re doing some hard work on ruby, not abandoning it
<momomomomo>
“There are huge challenges given the engineering tasks, but also tremendous opportunities to demonstrate how powerful Ruby is and can be."
<centrx>
momomomomo, More so the previous person. Anyway, it's the person
<centrx>
*previous posts
<momomomomo>
and actually, I’m being driven to Go for one project, but that’s after trying with JRuby & torquebox / rails
<momomomomo>
speed is something AR doesn’t really provide
<momomomomo>
but for all other apps of mine, it’s still ruby
<momomomomo>
and jruby + torquebox is just so beautiful once it gets working :p
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<certainty>
jhass: see. I told you I don't know much about ruby's threads. What makes the sheduler decide that a thread should be put into blocking state?
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<momomomomo>
certainty: There’s a GIL
<momomomomo>
global interpreter lock
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<jhass>
certainty: this is not really ruby specific. Things like Mutex#synchronize do
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<momomomomo>
sleep
<momomomomo>
etc.
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<combusean>
jhass, can you explain more about how this issue isn't ruby specific? haven't worked with threads before and am intrigued by this discussion
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<Veejay>
So yeah, the issue is that I'm popping a value from an empty queue, which blocks (it's actually written in the documentation). If I try to pop(true) to make it non-blocking, then I get a ThreadError: queue empty
<jhass>
combusean: ruby (since 1.9) spawns a OS level thread for each ruby thread, so the general mechanisms apply
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<certainty>
ok in our case the primordial thread waits for the consumer which is presumably waiting for some resource. #pop is likely to use a mutex internally. Then the primordial thread is put into blocking state which means that all running states are blocking which leads to the error?
<combusean>
ah
<jhass>
combusean: the GIL (GVL since 1.9) just makes sure that no (thread unsafe) MRI code is run at the same time, the normal scheduling rules still apply
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<jhass>
certainty: yes
<certainty>
s/states/threads/
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<certainty>
ok got it
<Veejay>
So, reframing the issue: How does one pop values from a queue when you don't know when to stop popping
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<jhass>
Veejay: don't block on the consumer thread, block on the producer threads and tell the consumer to kill itself afterwards
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<jhass>
the consumer can then decide to still empty the queue before it exists
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<jhass>
once you told itself to finish you can block on it
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<Veejay>
jhass: What do you mean "blocking on the producer"?
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<Veejay>
+by
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<jhass>
[producer1, producer2].map(&:join) instead of consumer.join
<certainty>
jhass: this behaviour is not the same on all implementations that feature green threads. A least CHICKEN does not do it this way. That's probably whay I was confused.
<jhass>
yeah the jvm chooses to randomly notify threads too if it thinks it's a good thing to do. I think MRI differentiates between a mutex and an IO block here and detects the deadlock
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<certainty>
i see. thanks
<certainty>
time to recharge my batteries. Have a good night everyone
<benzrf>
bbl
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<Veejay>
jhass: Yep that works great. The only issue now is that I don't get the messages from the threads as they happen
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<jhass>
you don't?
<jhass>
have updated code?
<Veejay>
Well, maybe I didn't do it the "right" way
<apeiros>
jhass: I like the list of cohesion types
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<shevy>
where do you guys store the VERSION constant usually?
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<apeiros>
hm, "Communicational cohesion" has the same description as "Informational cohesion"
<apeiros>
shevy: in the gem's namespace
<apeiros>
MyGem::Version
<shevy>
hmm
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<jhass>
apeiros: compare the german version.
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<apeiros>
different ordering :D
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<jhass>
:P
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<matled>
is iconv just removed from stdlib or completely deprecated for ruby? I cannot see any support for transliteration in the stdlib and iconv appears to work well for that.
<matled>
yeah, I don't really understand the state of iconv. it can be installed from gems and has no deprecation warning, so I'm not sure if the library itself is deprecated or if it was just deprecated as part of stdlib
<apeiros>
the deprecation warning says as much iirc
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<matled>
ah, ok. I've not actually seen the warning myself, just searching for ruby transliteration showed a lot of discussions and confusion about the deprecation
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<mikecmpbll>
.
<apeiros>
if your transliteration needs are simple, #encode's replacement hash might be sufficient
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<agent_white>
Good evenin
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