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<shevy>
peculiar that that works
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<reactormonk>
still think the path api in ruby is ugly.
<shevy>
the .* is treated like Dir.glob arguments?
<shevy>
reactormonk yeah, especially Pathname
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<shevy>
reactormonk, with File.extname it is clear what it does, File.basename too I suppose; how would you name something that returns all but the .extname? File.filename ?
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<reactormonk>
shevy, filename returns everything, basename just the name without extension
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<horrorvacui>
basename is the answer but consider a name like filename.blah.blah.gz or something thats the glob part's purpose
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<yfeldblum>
pipework: howdy - chef's a nice tool; good luck with it!
<shevy>
what is with chef
<yfeldblum>
shevy: hmm?
<shevy>
well you wished him good luck with chef
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<shevy>
so it is probably not easy!
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<yfeldblum>
shevy: like everything in the world, it's both easy and hard
<horrorvacui>
yfeldblum: yeah people like making things hard
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<yfeldblum>
horrorvacui: that's often true ... not the point i was driving at, though, which is that "easy" and "hard" are contextual
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<shevy>
pipework why do you need chef?
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<horrorvacui>
yfeldblum: well in that case: people like making things hard and easy
<shevy>
I like to make things as simple as possible
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<shevy>
that probably won't work for artificial intelligence
<jdjd>
Anyone have a clue how to get out of my situation. I work in finance world in city I hate. I am going to go for a CS degree, but wonder how much longer I can stand living here. I want to move to another part of the country. Anyone here work in the IT or Programming world and have any advice?
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<horrorvacui>
jdjd: mind if I ask what city?
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<shevy>
jdjd you will get the CS degree in the same town?
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<jdjd>
Can I ask what you all do? Also, one would be online.
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<jdjd>
I'm applying for different places.
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<shevy>
I work in life science/bioinformatics, programming is only a hobby
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<shevy>
jdjd do you hate the city or just the job
<jdjd>
Job is ok, I hate the city.
<jdjd>
I would like better job, and have a chance to move into IT department possibly.
<jdjd>
But still hate the location, I don't socialize at all here.
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<jdjd>
Close to relatives I don't like.
<shevy>
hmm
<shevy>
hehe
<mg^>
I'm a network/systems architect in a small org, programming is part of my job, but it's centered around tools and automation.
<shevy>
jdjd as you get older the relatives tend to die away :P
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<jdjd>
I'm 26, I shouldn't be not socializing right now.
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<jdjd>
If I stay here, do my degree, and get job in IT.
<horrorvacui>
I want to beg a Swede to let me live on their couch.
<shevy>
depends on the definition of socializing
<jdjd>
I wouldn't be leaving until 29 at that rate.
<shevy>
horrorvacui LOL
<shevy>
horrorvacui everyone is moving to sweden :(
<jdjd>
shevy: Dating girls and having friends.
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<horrorvacui>
I'll take Norway, Denmark, hell Iceland as well.
<shevy>
<ATuin> shevy: just to try something new, Spain is a fucking shit just now
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<shevy>
^^^ that spanish guy from #gobolinux relocated to sweden a few months ago
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<shevy>
horrorvacui yeah, I aggregate them all into the scandinavian countries... norway, sweden... probably denmark and finnland
<shevy>
they see it as a new gold rush
<shevy>
even more so than switzerland
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<jdjd>
So, what am I suppose to do.
<jdjd>
Keep my job, suffer for two years.
<jdjd>
And get my degree.
<horrorvacui>
Move to Scandinavia
<jdjd>
And then move where I want?
<shevy>
jdjd well let's ignore that degree for a moment
<horrorvacui>
NO seriously whats wrong with the town?
<shevy>
jdjd where would you want to go?
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<jdjd>
Can I PM you?
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<horrorvacui>
jdjd no I want to eavesdrop
<shevy>
hmmmm PM means I need to click more often
<horrorvacui>
:P
<shevy>
I use xchat
<shevy>
on main channel I can idle so happily!
<horrorvacui>
The deal is you don't need a CS degree if you do it right.
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<shevy>
horrorvacui perhaps he is in a dead city
<jdjd>
I guess its up to you, just feel more open away I guess in PM.
<horrorvacui>
I'm in a dead city
<horrorvacui>
Its not even a city its a town
<jdjd>
horrorvacui: Where do you work?
<shevy>
jdjd hehe I bother everyone with all my stuff here on #ruby
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<jdjd>
I want to live on the west coast.
<horrorvacui>
I don't. I'm unemployed. I'm trying to make it on my own atm.
<jdjd>
Or the northwest.
<shevy>
california!
<horrorvacui>
I'm failing horribly.
<jdjd>
Yes.
<shevy>
horrorvacui you know what they say about failing
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<horrorvacui>
What it sucks ass?
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<shevy>
horrorvacui it's the road to success. you fail and fail and fail until you suddenly succeed, it's the same like starting to play tennis. at first you perhaps can keep the ball going, but you won't be able to do more difficult slices and spins
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<shevy>
you practice and practice and it's hard but it suddenly makes 'click', you keep improving and suddenly things work
<jdjd>
shevy: I hate to do it, can I PM, lol.
<horrorvacui>
I'm 2 years failing how am I going to get a job when I've got nothing to show for 2 years :(
<shevy>
jdjd please no :(
<jdjd>
Ok.
<shevy>
jdjd describe it differently, let's say you have this older friend
<shevy>
who hates his town and either wants to DESTROY it or seek something new in life
<havenwood>
i'd suggest not failing
<shevy>
hehehe
<havenwood>
overrated
<shevy>
havenwood some people do fail
<shevy>
horrorvacui well you have to keep going
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<jdjd>
Doesn't matter, I actually want to live on the west coast.
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<jdjd>
I want a lot of things.
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<shevy>
hehehe ok so you will relocate anyway, I guess then 2-3 years is not a big problem
<jdjd>
It is.
<jdjd>
I'm missing the whole point of being 26-29.
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<jdjd>
This is why I want to PM.
<horrorvacui>
From a short project for a fortune 500 making a stupid accounting system.
<shevy>
some jobs are so awful that 3 years is torture
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<shevy>
jdjd don't worry, once you are past 30 it doesn't matter, at this point you are no longer young
<horrorvacui>
Finance sucks, so IT finance must be magnitudes worse if you don't like IT to begin with.
<jdjd>
shevy: I need insurance to pay for my medication for health issue.
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<jdjd>
Without it, its 1000$ a month.
<mg^>
You want to do IT in the financial sector? You're braver than I am.
<jdjd>
horrorvacui: And where are you getting any of these accusations from.
<mg^>
regulatory compliance audits suck in the non-financial world
<havenwood>
to LA!
<shevy>
yeah havenwood!!!
<dorei>
horrorvacui: i'm a lazy dev living at a shit country, however I've managed to get an IT job, so I guess you can find one too
<jdjd>
As I said neither about hating either.
<shevy>
though the wild thing to do would be to quit and go head-dive in away to the west coast!
<horrorvacui>
shevy: got a couch? I'll backpack to Denmark :P
<dorei>
shevy: do u live in a socialist country? :O
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<jdjd>
I dont want to be sharing this on chat like this.
<myke>
that would be sociammunism
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<jdjd>
Sigh, I just want some help/guidance. Don't know what to do.
<jdjd>
We don't.
<dorei>
shevy: btw, is there a .dk torrent tracker? i'm looking for the rejseholdet tv series at a decent quality
<jdjd>
shevy: If you knew a way that I could actually run to your country and become a citizen I would, and could afford the plan ticket.
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<shevy>
dorei hmm nope, you only got basic coverages, it's an ethical way to treat human beings other than abusing them as working slaves
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<jdjd>
I would do it too.
<horrorvacui>
jdjd: Ride the wheels of a jet.
<dorei>
oh, denmark
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<shevy>
but I think they don't have the euro as currency?
<shevy>
actually, denmark may be even better off than central europe :)
<shevy>
I don't think many people here work in finance-related companies... very few really
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<jdjd>
And have the passport.
<jdjd>
I already do that.
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<shevy>
jdjd well you have a very specialized work area; finance
<shevy>
dorei no real idea, most of those torrent sites absolutely suck
<shevy>
man denmark has too much rain
<shevy>
jdjd you could ask mg^ though, he wrote his PhD in some boring area
<jdjd>
No jokes.
<dorei>
shevy: what's the biggest company @ dk? maersk?
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<shevy>
jdjd kk I see how that sucks, here in central europe we have basic insurance even for the unemployed
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<dorei>
socialism :p
<horrorvacui>
Be sure to bring oxygen and a blanket.
<horrorvacui>
No plane ticket needed.
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<horrorvacui>
jdjd: Try learning ruby and other skills whilst maintaining your current job. You'll get an idea if you like it or not. Also you'll find it easy to move into the IT positions if you find out what they use and learn that.
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<jdjd>
That isn't how life works sometimes.
<shevy>
dorei dunno, I liked Lego though, the area was awesome; shame I did visit it when I was 15, already too old but I loved lego when I was young
<myke>
jdjd: pick up internet based work on sites like elance, etc
<horrorvacui>
jdjd: So you want to know should you tough it out or run scared?
<horrorvacui>
I think you should run scared because wellbeing trumps welloff.
<jdjd>
That is the wrong way of asking the question.
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<jdjd>
This isn't a question of liking it or not.
<mordof>
alright, time to learn ruby... anyone have any preference on tutorials / guides?
<jdjd>
myke: Its an idea.
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<jdjd>
Do you have experience with that?
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<jdjd>
But still.
<shevy>
mordof back in 2005 "learn to program by chris pine" was awesome; read it once, then you understand how to use block and yield
<jdjd>
It doesn't solve the issue of me hating my life in this city.
<jdjd>
The job is good.
<horrorvacui>
I tried that it was hard to compete with the cheap labor countries.
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<shevy>
jdjd usually it's often the other way - the job sucks, the city is cool :D
<myke>
yes
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<myke>
when you have enough contract work you can quit your job and go wherever
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<jdjd>
How much can you make myke?
<mordof>
shevy: well.. i have several languages under my belt to considerable levels of proficiency, and i've talked to people in here about blocks and yield (though i don't know a whole lot about each). if all that will do is give me the basics of that, i think i can start off a bit farther up
<jdjd>
Realistically, how much do you make after taxes?
<mordof>
shevy: i'll look at it though, thanks
<myke>
wide range...i got a gig that paid $50/hr for 40/hour weeks of which i worked maybe 8 if that
<mg^>
shevy: not a PhD... my thesis was for an honors B.S. degree
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<myke>
lots of lowballers
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<mg^>
but it was a totally boring subject to most people
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<shevy>
mordof hmm if you know other languages very well already, then I think you should not waste too much time... read a bit more, but more importantly start to actively write code, no matter what, eventually it makes 'click' and you understand how ruby works
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<shevy>
mordof then one day you will know as much as havenwood does!
<jdjd>
myke: That is probably the high then.
<shevy>
mg^ ah I see
<horrorvacui>
myke: I found that it was stressful and work was to sporadic. I couldn't attract the well paying work because I was competing with teams instead of individuals.
<jdjd>
you made 2000$? Hard to pay bills with that no?
<myke>
it wz
<jdjd>
myke: Not downing you btw, that sounded negatives what I said.
<myke>
it was more than one week and i was doing it at my day job
<mg^>
I could probably continue the same research and turn it into a PhD, but I like earning money instead of spending it on school at this point in my life.
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<shevy>
mg^, I kinda assumed PhD's need thesis + thesis defence, a guy on #bioinformatics spoke about his own thesis <Ulti> its incredible how much I cannot stand to even look at my thesis
<mordof>
shevy: heh, no idea who havenwood is, but generally i just start coding and then go from there. I don't know much about ruby, so my question should more have been "is there any walkthroughs for simple projects" out there that people recommend as following good practices
<myke>
one week imhad 2 projects from that guy for 60 hrs billable
<jdjd>
myke: What was your day job?
<shevy>
which I found funny considering he wrote it himself :D
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<mg^>
shevy: yeah, they definitely do. Most bachelor's degrees do not, but it's often a distinguishing item for gaining honors with the degree.
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<myke>
jdjd: computer guy in the sticks of montana
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<shevy>
mordof havenwood is here on #ruby, he knows damn much! I think there is no real simple walkthrough... I would recommend to just scan through simple books like "learn to program", understand only core concepts briefly - blocks, yield, class vs. module - then at once start to write a lot of code, no matter what, also start to package up things into gem; bundling things into a gem will teach a lot, from this po
<shevy>
int on I think it will be very easy to continue
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<shevy>
mordof for instance, whenever I am bored and don't know what to do, I try to improve one project of mine and look through todo lists, until I am bored and move to something else....
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<shevy>
mg^ ah I see
<shevy>
gaining honors means that one has to have had good grades?
<shevy>
I was always solid middle field :P
<jdjd>
Is there a good irc chat for career advice?
<mg^>
mordof: how I motivate myself to take on a new programming language or other tool, is to find a reason to need it, and then go from there. Of course, this is after prior requisite experience with other languages and tools.
<horrorvacui>
jdjd: Go to reddit and ask
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<shevy>
jdjd hmm try #programmers perhaps
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<shevy>
oops
<shevy>
hmmmm
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<shevy>
yeah try reddit
<mg^>
shevy: yeah there was also a "top 10% of the class" requirement as well
<shevy>
cool
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<fly2web>
khi
<fly2web>
hi
<fly2web>
:)
<mordof>
mg^: oh for sure. shevy also - alright, thanks for the input guys. i've got a few ideas for small things i'll start off with for plain ruby. I need to jump into Rails for the beginning of next month, but i'm going to learn plain Ruby on my own so I can know what's going on
<mordof>
if I have questions that I can't find answers to, I'll come back here
<fly2web>
i think that there is no special thing in ruby? is it right?
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<jdjd>
Is the solution to kill myself?
<horrorvacui>
uhh ohh...
<fly2web>
jdjd: you want to di?
<fly2web>
die?
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<fly2web>
jdjd: ?
<jdjd>
Well, dont know much else what to do.
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<jdjd>
I want to live.
<horrorvacui>
jdjd: Finance, it makes people do crazy things.
<jdjd>
But.
<mg^>
ahh it's go-home time
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<jdjd>
horrorvacui: Please stop with the steriotypes.
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<fly2web>
jdjd: where are you from?
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<horrorvacui>
jdjd: Sorry, I'm joking. :P
<shevy>
jdjd well it always depends on the goals
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<shevy>
jdjd horrorvacui does not even have a job to complain about
<horrorvacui>
I prefer self-employed
<horrorvacui>
More accurately no insurance or extra money.
<horrorvacui>
Which means I'm going to be fined i think...
<jdjd>
fly2web: do you mind if I PM you?
<fly2web>
no
<fly2web>
what is PM?
<jdjd>
private message.
<jdjd>
But nevermind.
<fly2web>
ok
<fly2web>
go on
<fly2web>
dont worry.
<shevy>
horrorvacui you can be fined if you do not pay yourself insurance as self-employed?
<horrorvacui>
Yeah I think. $95 usd or 1 % of my income.
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<horrorvacui>
USA not so free is it? :P
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<shevy>
well it's a lot of show
<shevy>
and for a show you need good rhetorics
<shevy>
it's actually a skill if you think about it
<horrorvacui>
If I make below 133% of the national poverty this year i might not have to pay it :P
<shevy>
man
<horrorvacui>
So maybe I should fail miserably to save 95 usd
<shevy>
what kind of attitude is that!
<horrorvacui>
:P
<shevy>
nonono
<shevy>
you must fail at what you are *actively* doing
<horrorvacui>
I know. I'm joking.
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<shevy>
perhaps I should name it active failing
<horrorvacui>
I'm writing my resume as I speak. Going to job hunt soon.
<shevy>
like, it's perfectly fine to fail, so long as you are active
<shevy>
\o/
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<horrorvacui>
I took 2 years off after college and tried my own thing. I didn't succeed and I don't really have much to show for it. Thats the worst of it. On the bright side I'm play a lot of Dota 2 and reading a lot of ruby lit.
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<shevy>
eh we all have our dark past
<shevy>
I played warcraft3 way too long as well
<horrorvacui>
I play 1 game a day. Hardly a problem :P
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<shevy>
hehe
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<horrorvacui>
The worst part is moving in with your parents :(
<arubin>
Ruby lit, eh?
<horrorvacui>
Yeah I'm bad about reading and not doing.
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* arubin
considers a novel that includes actual code.
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<horrorvacui>
Maybe I should of just said ruby books.
<shevy>
hmm
<shevy>
most of the ruby books I read so far were not that useful
<shevy>
save for pickaxe for the first time (not the second time though)
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<horrorvacui>
Well the same for me the exception being POODR.
<fly2web>
i think that there is special thing in ruby?
<fly2web>
is it right?
<fly2web>
i think that there is no special thing in ruby?
<fly2web>
is it right?
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<shevy>
fly2web man
<shevy>
fly2web did you not ask the same a while ago?
<fly2web>
yes right
<shevy>
fly2web ruby focuses on expressivity, elegance, terseness
<horrorvacui>
I enjoyed the small books by Stormier, except I've not read the one about threads.
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<shevy>
fly2web it is for the most part a natural evolution of what perl should have been
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<shevy>
or perhaps perl6
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<dorei>
fly2web: ruby is like poetry ;-)
<fly2web>
oh
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<horrorvacui>
Ruby is like haiku
<shevy>
yeah
<shevy>
that is a good way to put it
<fly2web>
perl vs python vs ruby, what is most old?
<shevy>
or perhaps it should be "ruby is like poetry if written well"
<myke>
perl
<shevy>
fly2web perl. and you can find this info on wikipedia ;P
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<fly2web>
perl -> ruby -> python?
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<horrorvacui>
troll
<fly2web>
no
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<horrorvacui>
:p
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<horrorvacui>
I don't think python evolved out of ruby. I'd say python and ruby are more like siblings instead of directly part of a pedigree.
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<fly2web>
programmer can do only one language?
<horrorvacui>
I think I'm going to make a fighting game where you can play Guido Van Rossum or Matz. Log the stats of victories and claim that the official results on Ruby vs Python.
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<fly2web>
i think that all language is same some aspect.
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<myke>
fly2web: i assume you haven'tbyet run across prolog...
<shevy>
fly2web the philosophies between ruby and python are very different
<fly2web>
i m beginner of ruby.
<shevy>
you need to write code
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<fly2web>
i start study ruby. but i m not interested with ruby.
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<horrorvacui>
Then try python
<myke>
^^
<fly2web>
hobodave: but i want hacking with metasploit.
<horrorvacui>
I started out pursuing a degree in Information Assurance but I found it boring and largely ineffective at teaching more than avoiding "security through obscurity" and a lot of other no duh stuff.
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<horrorvacui>
fly2web: just look up ethical hacking and penetration testing that'll get you started.
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<vitorbaptista>
Hey all! I'm trying to remember the name of a Ruby library that I've seen a while ago that helps you parse command-line arguments (to create a cli application). Instead of going the usual way of setting up the options as code, it generated that from the documentation strings. So you'd write your app's documentation, and it'll turn that into code and parse the arguments for you. Does someone remembers its name?
<vitorbaptista>
It's pretty hard to google for it :/
<fly2web>
horrorvacui: i feel that i am studying c, python, and other language. but i can’t feel about studying hacking. so i say myself that ‘what are i doing?'?
<myke>
hacking first requires mastery of all the other components
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<myke>
hardest and most time consuming thing you can do
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<myke>
unless your goal is merely to become a script kiddy poser
<horrorvacui>
fly2web: Consider those languages and things you are learning as literacy in the technology world. Then supplement your education by keeping up with security, operating systems, web development, information assurance, etc..
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<fly2web>
ok thanks horrorvacui
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<horrorvacui>
fly2web: If you want a good series to watch check out hak5
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<dorei>
fly2web: although i think in most modern operating systems stack overflows dont work anymore
<shevy>
there is an initial cost involved when starting something from scratch (and if you can barely re-use anything else), then there is another slight cost involved when you maintain, fix bugs, or extend and improve on it, but other than that, you can then profit from it immensely and save a lot of time. for instance, I auto-generate calendars in .pdf for coming weeks via ruby, when I have appointments etc...
<vitorbaptista>
fly2web: They give you small VMs with vulnerabilities and hints for you to hack into
<shevy>
eventually I'll write something in ruby-gnome to also display it all automatically
<dorei>
ruby-gnome :O
<vitorbaptista>
pontiki: good idea, I'll look into it
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<fly2web>
thanks everyone.
<fly2web>
:)
<horrorvacui>
fly2web: also don't hack my country, it has enough problems
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<shevy>
dorei well there are not many good GUI bindings for ruby :(
<shevy>
I think it has to do with ruby being too work-intensive to maintain from a C-like API
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<dorei>
shevy: everytime I do something in ruby-gnome, I always wonder who is doing things wrong/ugly. me? gnome? or ruby-gnome?
<horrorvacui>
All the above.
<shevy>
the ruby-gnome bindings are not very pleasant
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<shevy>
the problem is that there is not much other than a very thing wrapper over it
<shevy>
not very ruby-esque
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<fly2web>
horrorvacui: what is your country?
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<horrorvacui>
USA, E.E.U.U., Meiguo
<fly2web>
i will hack only my country. dont worry.
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<elico>
the above is implementation but it moves a bit fast sometimes.
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<elico>
a bit slow*
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<elico>
any ruby room open tonight
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<havenwood>
elico: a few suggestions, use `request.nil?`, `!request.is_a? String`, instead of `STDERR.puts` use `warn`, drop explicit `return` when its the last line of a method, rescue a particular exception or at least limit to StandardError
<havenwood>
it's*
<havenwood>
elico: i think i prefer `loop do` to `while true` but that's just whim
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<havenwood>
elico: when you're doing `STDERR.puts` followed by `exit` i think you mean to be exiting with an error status?
<havenwood>
elico: so `exit 1`, or better yet use `abort`
<mordof>
I'm taking a walkthrough about classes. Any reason why ClassName. new makes sense, meanwhile to use initialize arguments it's ClassName.new(argdata)
<havenwood>
elico: e.g.: abort 'the arg is a #warn too'
<elico>
havenwood: coupl mintures reading from 0
<mordof>
not sure why the space is there in the first example
<havenwood>
mordof: typo?
<mordof>
havenwood: it's consistent through it
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<mordof>
havenwood: I know the tutorials made mention earlier on that whitespace didn't make too much difference under many situations. I take it this is just one where it works the same either way? heh
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<havenwood>
mordof: here's an example of adding whitespace
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<mordof>
i think one of my eyes just started bleeding
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<mordof>
that is very hard to read properly for someone that doesn't really know ruby.
<mordof>
generally for things that are written well, I can figure out what it's supposed to do..
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<mordof>
havenwood: is there any reason to ever write my code like that in reality?
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<havenwood>
mordof: no
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<elico>
havenwood: the main issue is slowdown at runtime.
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<havenwood>
elico: what's taking time?
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<havenwood>
elico: which part is slow?
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<elico>
havenwood: I do not know yet which part is slow but sometimes it hangs more then it should. Do you have a suggestion to benchmark each part with?
<havenwood>
elico: i'm assuming the slow part isn't in the code you showed but during the HTTP requests?
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<havenwood>
elico: a shorter timeout?
<havenwood>
elico: parallel requests
<elico>
what?
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<elico>
during the HTTP reqests yes...
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<havenwood>
elico: so two things. make multiple requests at once in parallel. and when you fail, fail faster with a shorter timeout.
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<havenwood>
elico: are you using Net::HTTP?
<elico>
fail faster?? what?
<elico>
no
<havenwood>
what are you using?
<elico>
it's an external_acl helper for squid
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<elico>
it decides if the request should be allowed o r denied.
<elico>
I get the line like these that at the top of the file and returns "OK\n" or "ERR\n"
<havenwood>
elico: i don't know what squid is
<havenwood>
elico: show the code for the part that is slow?
<elico>
never mind what squid is else then it's a proxy that allows me couple things
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<elico>
I gave you the whole code
<havenwood>
elico: that code is slow?
<elico>
I am not yet sure how to findout what is slow
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<elico>
since I started using Class for the request it much slower.
<mordof>
shevy: rails is for a job i've already been hired for that i start May 1st, lol. not much chance of that happening
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<MZAWeb>
combusean: first Ruby code ever. Looking for tips mostly on idiomatic stuff
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<mordof>
shevy: but it's true, i'm probably not going to particularly enjoy some things of rails.
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<mordof>
question about that - in rails, am i still able to do normal ruby fine?
<mordof>
or does it change up the way things are done too much
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<Mark_>
any tips to even like, get started
<combusean>
MZAWeb, from browsing halfway through a first model I'm very impressed by your idiomaticy
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<Mark_>
i just keep going back to C and php
<Mark_>
i need a shove to even want to learn something like python, ruby, or node
<horrorvacui>
mordof: Rails active support extends ruby core some so it can be confusing sometimes when something that you liked in rails isn't available in ruby. Fortunately you can always include what you need from active support.
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<Mark_>
any open source projects nifty like discourse, but perhaps not so massive
<Mark_>
?
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<mordof>
horrorvacui: ah - so if i'm writing in a rails project, and i want to use a normal ruby way of doing something, that's still fully available?
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<combusean>
MZAWeb, in fact I can't see any overt smells
<combusean>
MZAWeb, congrats on your first project, you've done very well. =)
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<mordof>
question: I'm seeing "string string #{ expression } string" <-- is #{ expr } anything like js eval where it could be considered bad practice to use in certain scenarios? I'm just wondering if there's any reasons to stay away from that
<mordof>
obviously things like input sanitization and being aware of where it's being used are important..
<MZAWeb>
combusean: thanks! It took me 2 hs to implement and a full day to rewrite most of it trying to match what I found in other ruby projects
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<combusean>
i only looked at one model but it looked really good
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<agent_white>
Mark_: Shoes
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<horrorvacui>
mordof: no ruby has its own eval which is like js's eval :P and it still has the same controversy. Thats just string interpolation.
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<horrorvacui>
although mordof I'm going to have to defer to someone else on what security concerns might exist with string interpolation if any.
<mordof>
horrorvacui: ok. so it would be the equivalent of running normal code with a toString on it?
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<Mark_>
agent_white, rock on
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<horrorvacui>
mordof: I'm not sure the extent of how it works under the hood but I think that is a safe assumption. Also I did find some concerns exist with string interpolation if you are using the string to say construct a sql query. So do be aware that string interpolation isn't inherently safe.
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<mordof>
horrorvacui: right. sql injection, input sanitization - i figured those would be the main concerns. thanks :)
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<horrorvacui>
mordof: If you want to pick up ruby style and practices it probably wouldn't hurt looking into rubocop. Just run rubocop on your code and fix what it vomits over.
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<myke>
that renders fine in my browser
<horrorvacui>
mordof: it is because of scope, your @customers_list is nil.
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<mordof>
hm - i thought @ was class level... hmm.. *goes back to that section*
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<mordof>
that makes sense though obviously, now that you point it out
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<mordof>
"instance variables" the correct term. class variables are something else
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<mordof>
horrorvacui: i'm confused as to what type of variable i should use in that scenario
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<mordof>
using @@ technically wouldn't matter, as logic for the setup of everything would mean i'm not creating more than one instance of the Customers class
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<mordof>
but if I were making more than one instance (allowing per-store, let's say) - that would be wrong
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<horrorvacui>
mordof: I'm not surprised because you are dancing around some complex concepts I'm a bit worried about explaining to you yet.
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<mordof>
horrorvacui: not sure there's a need for that worry. if there's a way to relate it either to different languages, or just explaining it generally, i'll understand it
<horrorvacui>
mordof: the ruby object model is a little confusing to people starting off even from other languages though
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<mordof>
ah, ok
<horrorvacui>
Try for now putting customer list as an instance variable in the constructor
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<mordof>
hmmm
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<horrorvacui>
I see some other errors in the code too but I'll give you a chance to fix them.
<mordof>
so.. the instance variable inside a method of the class makes that instance variable accessible through any other methods of that class, for that instance. i was just defining it in the wrong location
<horrorvacui>
mordof: yeap
<mordof>
yeah - @@customer_count is missing, and i need .to_s on @@customers.add(self) to cast to string
<mordof>
not to cast, but
<horrorvacui>
no no use an instance not class
<mordof>
yeah
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<mordof>
hm?
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<horrorvacui>
hold on let me look at it, what line?
<mordof>
all C-based languages with their own quirks and horrid displays, lol
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<mordof>
i'm aware it'll take some time to adapt the way i think things through to a more ruby-esque way... i need to learn the language first though :)
<horrorvacui>
mordof let show you something real quick about string interpolation
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<mordof>
haha, i figured that'd be a strange way to do it..
<mordof>
i could just do #@customer_id, #@customer_name could i not?
<horrorvacui>
>> x, y, z = 1, 2, 3; puts "#{x} #{y} #{z}
<horrorvacui>
its alright I'm just linking to it since I'm lazy
<horrorvacui>
take in the essence of ruby don't get hung up on all the style stuff to much yet
<mordof>
that will be harder for me so skim through..
<mordof>
i am *so* used to larger tab size, lol
<mordof>
something like that will actually slow down my code processing quite a bit
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<mordof>
eh... i think i could get used to it though
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<bricker`LA>
someone please kill me, thank you
* mordof
slaps bricker`LA with a fish repeatedly
<mordof>
sorry i couldn't finish the job - but maybe that'll get someone else started
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<bricker`LA>
mordof: well, is it shellfish? Maybe I'll develop an allergy
<bricker`LA>
the whole "chef" naming thing (knife, chef, kitchen, etc) is cute, but it makes googling for support annoying
<mordof>
bricker`LA: hmm.. we'll just go with pihranas and that should get you most of the way there - probable infection included.
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<bricker`LA>
mordof: okay, thanks
<mordof>
bricker`LA: maybe one of the pihranas can have rabies or something dumb like that, lol
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<horrorvacui>
mordof: I also noticed earlier you had an empty constructor, don't sweat it if it's empty leave it out.
<mordof>
horrorvacui: oh for sure. i was going to put something in there, then forgot what it was :) that's why it was there
<mordof>
thanks for the clarification though
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<mordof>
horrorvacui: so the instance variable... let me take a stab at describing how it functions. essentially it's just a variable that becomes available to all methods in a class after initialization (of both the containing class, and the variable in question)? but remains only visible to that individual instance of the class
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<mordof>
and the class scope itself has no visibility to it.. which is strange for me, but yeah
<mordof>
I'm definitely used to a "class" being just an object, with variables and methods being attached to it.. and scope being fairly straight forward, but this seems to be set up differently
<horrorvacui>
sigh... I guess we'll have to have that talk about the singleton class/eigenclass/meta class and ruby object model
<horrorvacui>
I'm lazy
<horrorvacui>
Let me find a link
<mordof>
nah - i'm going to sleep right shortly
<mordof>
i'll get to it in the tutorials
<mordof>
i'll just remember that i'm not understanding it right for now and investigate further on
<horrorvacui>
just remember a new scope starts at class, module, and def keywords
<mordof>
well, a link would still be helpful :)
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<mordof>
mhmm. that's not new to me
<myke>
a class isn't an object, an object is an instantiated instance of a class
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<mordof>
myke: sorry - javascript terminology flowing through
<mordof>
my explanations of things are going to seem very whacky, hehe
<myke>
classes can have methods that are separate from methods for objects of that class
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<mordof>
ohh, hmm
<myke>
what you described sounds confused
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<MZAWeb>
mordof: Class.method vs. Class.prototype.method in js-land
<mordof>
MZAWeb: cool, thanks :)
<mordof>
thought as much
<horrorvacui>
wow I just realized it kinda is a prototype like object model in a way
<mordof>
heh, yep
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<mordof>
it's behaving rather similarly to what i'm used to, which is cool
<mordof>
just some of the scoping and variable instantiation / rules are different and odd. but that's fine now
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<horrorvacui>
It's great you are asking the questions because you'll get a deep understanding of ruby quick that way.
<mordof>
anyhow i'm off for the night. Thanks myke, MZAWeb, horrorvacui, and all others that have contributed to this process so far ^_^ i'll be back tomorrow
<horrorvacui>
But its hard to find an article that describes the object model as good as metaprogramming ruby book
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<horrorvacui>
So if you can find a copy or just read some of the links found by searching ruby object model
<mordof>
horrorvacui: mhmm :) don't worry, i'll keep at it and ask more refined questions once i dig further in
<mordof>
ok, will do
<horrorvacui>
later
<mordof>
i can't handle using a language i don't fully understand
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<mordof>
so everything i do i'll be working on understanding the complexities
<mordof>
edge cases, best practices, etc - very important to me
<mordof>
with that said - if you provide an answer to something and i don't fully understand. i'll keep digging, so it's fairly safe to provide responses when it normally would be dangerous
<mordof>
risk of "oh we'll just do this and not investigate why it works" scenarios
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<horrorvacui>
Okay thats a lot like me. I'll remember that if we meet again.
<mordof>
:)
* mordof
wanders off for the night
<mordof>
thanks again~
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<fly2web>
he mistake hime for thief. <——— what is ‘for’? for’s meaning?
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<benzrf>
.
<RubyPanther>
he mistook him for a thief. 'for' connects the two subject arguments to mistook
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<RubyPanther>
take( him.for( thief ) )
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<RubyPanther>
or something
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<fly2web>
for means ‘in place of’?
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<fly2web>
RubyPanther:
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<RubyPanther>
sure, sortof
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<RubyPanther>
or instead of, sometimes
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<RubyPanther>
or to, in the future
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<fly2web>
thanks RubyPanther
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<fly2web>
RubyPanther: you are bot?
<fly2web>
human?
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<RubyPanther>
wow, I'd be awesome as a robot
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<RubyPanther>
my wife is voting robot lol
<MZAWeb>
Take a turing test
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<fly2web>
i think that i lost my purpose. so i will give up programming.
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<fly2web>
thing that i wanted is web database hacking.
<fly2web>
but there is no hope.
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<fly2web>
good picture.
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<fly2web>
RubyPanther: how can i do?
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<_pingu>
did gem install berkshelf and got the following log with errors: http://pastebin.com/LFtziVU5 what can i do?
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<arubin>
_pingu: Try upgrading tar.
<arubin>
What are you using to build this on Windows?
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<_pingu>
arubin: what do you mean with upgrading tar? gem list | grep tar shows only minitar (0.5.4). What I'am using? The opscode omnibus installer comes with an embeddet ruby v1.9.3 Does that answer your question?
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<arubin>
No, the tar command itself is dying, not a Ruby module.
<arubin>
So you probably need to update whatever environment you are using to build this module.
<arubin>
MZAWeb: He appears to have a tar executable, but it is dying.
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<_pingu>
arubin: yes I have a tar executable. which tar in the git bash shows: /bin/tar
<arubin>
_pingu: I would update whatever installed the tar executable.
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<MZAWeb>
arubin: are you sure?
<MZAWeb>
arubin: the last error is " `block in run': Failed to build gecode library. (GecodeBuild::BuildError)"
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<arubin>
MZAWeb: 0 [main] tar 10780 open_stackdumpfile: Dumping stack trace to tar.exe.stackdump
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<_pingu>
arubin: the tar.exe is from the git embedded bash. v1.22 don't know how to update this by the way. isn't there another way?
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<arubin>
_pingu: You might be able to just install another tar and make sure that it is earlier in your path or replace the one that is there.
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<_pingu>
arubin: ok, i'll try
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<Mdgd>
Hey fellas.
<Mdgd>
So either I've pushed Ruby's technological boundaries, or I'm missing something.
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<crome>
it sounds interesting
<Mdgd>
I'm trying to generate a JSON output from a collection of models _ using. no. hash. maps.
<Mdgd>
This is very important
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<Mdgd>
I'm trying to populate a datatables gadget and it needs to put all of the stuff in an associative array, where the array with actual records goes under a certain string key.
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<Mdgd>
Now I'm finding out Ruby does not support non-numerical array indexes?
<crome>
correct
<Mdgd>
Cause it keeps converting my arrays to hash maps once I have a string key involved. Ergo, the output can never be compatible.
<Mdgd>
Oh christ..
<Mdgd>
I'm gonna have to string this server response together word for word aren't I?
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<Mdgd>
Just a sec..
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<apeiros>
Mdgd: there is no such thing as "non numerical array indexes"
<crome>
I dont really get it why using a hash is not good enough
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<apeiros>
an array is always positional, so always indexes, so always numbers (and no, php's clusterfuck isn't really an array, despite its name)
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<crome>
or using an array of hashes with an optional attribute in each that is your "key"
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<apeiros>
Array has #assoc and #rassoc
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<apeiros>
though, I'm curious as to why you think you must not use hashmaps
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<Mdgd>
Now note the JSON response keeps throwing me a hash map with 'aaData' as one of its indexes [{"aaData":[[37748,"Dakpannen",null],[37748,"Dakpannen",null]]}]
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<Mdgd>
This needs to become ["aaData":[[37748,"Dakpannen",null],[37748,"Dakpannen",null]]]
<apeiros>
Mdgd: ["aaData":[[37748,"Dakpannen",null],[37748,"Dakpannen",null]]] <-- this is not a thing
<apeiros>
not valid json.
<Mdgd>
Maybe not in Ruby
<apeiros>
no. that's unrelated to ruby. you talk about json output.
<apeiros>
what you suggest is not json.
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<crome>
its not even valid json
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<crome>
oh, Im late ;<
<Mdgd>
Yet this is the format used in datatables and one I can generate in PHP
<apeiros>
you can have either {"aaData": […]} or [["aaData", […]]
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<apeiros>
but ["aaData": […]] is not json.
<Mdgd>
..
<apeiros>
Mdgd: fine, your php generates *invalid json*
<Mdgd>
Am I missing something here..
<apeiros>
or rather: it generates something which is not json.
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<Mdgd>
Hahaha
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<myke>
uh
* apeiros
afk for a bit
<myke>
isn't that new school php?
<Mdgd>
Nevermind guys
<Mdgd>
I got my brackets mixed up
<myke>
where you can just use [] to create arrays
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<apeiros>
myke: unrelated to what's valid json and what's not.
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<Mdgd>
I think.. I hope..
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<myke>
i thought he might be talking about eval()ing generated php
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<_pingu>
ok, my console uses now the opscode tar. what sould i do next? fire gem install berkshelf again?
<Mdgd>
Yeah I was chasing the wrong end here, thanks guys.
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<_pingu>
ok, works now. thanks so far!
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<Trudko>
guy what do you think it would take for ruby to become popular and maybe take down the php? More tools? More places to learn it?
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<DefV>
I don't think Ruby / rubyists have that ambition
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<Trudko>
Do you think they should? I read bit older article from Jeff Atwood where he simply points out that intestead of arguing that php as languages sucks we should focus on building alternatives. It intrique me
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<Trudko>
intrigue
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<Trudko>
I still notice new people using php and I am courious if they are making the right choice especially these days when you can get free hosting for whatever language you want. Of course there are still legit uses for PHP>
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<canton7>
sure. php hosting is still ubiquitous, there are plenty of companies maintaining php system, and php is very much a beginners' language.
<tobiasvl>
probably something for the rails community, not sure if the ruby community themselves need to take up that fight
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<Trudko>
tobiasvl: that is certainly question for rails community too but ruby community as such could help for example by building alternatives to rails, by making sure that ruby is included in things like codeacademy. For example TryRuby is great toold for starter.
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<Trudko>
Still I need to find out some good info about benefits of switching from php.
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<canton7>
we have sinatran, camping, padrino, and others
<Trudko>
canton7: yeah I know that rails arent only tool there I am just saying that building such a tools by rubyist could help.
<canton7>
my point is that other rubyists *do* build such tools, and it *does* help :P
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<Trudko>
Php is beginner language but it seems that it is beginner language more because of convenience , i think PHP as first language is terrible idea and there are many better alternatives
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<canton7>
I think it's probably a beginner language out of habit :P
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<Hanmac>
Trudko: i never used ruby for websites before ... i used it for shell scripts, for ingame-logic, for window-gui, for 2d & 3d rendering, but not for websites ;P
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<vasilakisfil>
hello! how can I run something on terminal from ruby but get each line of the output without waiting for it to finish ?
<tobiasvl>
vasilakisfil: what do you mean? what kind of output is that?
<tobiasvl>
you should get each printed line immediately in most cases
<tobiasvl>
although stdout is often buffered… is that what you mean?
<vasilakisfil>
ok let's say that I have a ruby script that starts a web server (java -server.jar options1 etc).. If I run that I only get the output of the command when the server closes
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<tobiasvl>
the return value?
<vasilakisfil>
yeah
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<vasilakisfil>
I want to print line by line when I have a new line from the output of the %x{ command }
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<canton7>
vasilakisfil, Open3::popen3, in your block do something like 'stdout.each do |line| puts line end
<canton7>
(iirc)
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<vasilakisfil>
it works! thanks!
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<pessimism>
what is the bundle command to update the gems in my Gemfile that don’t have a specified version?
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<fohan>
somebody has already used the AT&T gem for Speech service ?
<Nilium>
Presumably AT&T has.
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<fohan>
Yeah, thanks Nilium
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<Nilium>
You're welcome.
<olivier_bK>
for include module in my file i do require_relative "my_file" , i thought may be theyre is a best solution
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<fohan>
anybody else ?
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<workmad3>
pessimism: 'bundle update' or 'bundle update <gem_name>' for just a certain gem
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<timgauthier>
hallo
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<timgauthier>
this one time i dreamed of compiled ruby
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<workmad3>
timgauthier: given some of ruby's features, I'm not sure a fully compiled ruby will ever be realised... any compiled executable would basically need to embed the ruby interpreter and whole standard library
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<timgauthier>
yeah, i don't want a compiled ruby
<timgauthier>
it was weird
<workmad3>
timgauthier: the future of ruby could easily contain the ability to compile to a more standardised ruby VM bytecode, similar to java :)
<workmad3>
although I'm not sure whether that would really bring too many advantages either
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<timgauthier>
is there really any actual problems with a runtime language?
<timgauthier>
i mean, yes it can be slow, but it also can be fast, it depends more on how you write it then the fact that it is a compiled vs runtime language
<timgauthier>
once you get that many layers away from machine code i mean really
<workmad3>
there are certain optimisations that can't really be done without compilation
<workmad3>
but there are also certain optimisations that can't really be done with compilation and are specific to bytecode VMs
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<timgauthier>
compiling is good for things like garbage collection and memory management right?
<timgauthier>
like thats what i've gathered from iOS and using C
<timgauthier>
not that i write C
<timgauthier>
but since ruby isn't targeted for those devices or use cases then it isn't a huge issue
<workmad3>
nah, those are fairly independent on the language runtime
<fohan>
I guess high level langages like ruby or python are enough performant for ~80 softwares, no ?
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<fohan>
80%
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<workmad3>
you can have interpreted languages with manual memory management, you can have compiled languages with GC
<timgauthier>
but i don't see ruby as really being used to write "programs" in the native sense that we see things like iWork or stuff like that
<timgauthier>
i mean ruby is great for what its being used for currently, daemons and background utilities and such
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<timgauthier>
but i'm saying you wouldn't use ruby for building out huge apps like those
<tobiasvl>
no of course not
<tobiasvl>
so what
<tobiasvl>
you wouldn't use bash for that either, or perl or python or php for that matter
<timgauthier>
exactly, i'm saying if i don't want to do that sort of thing with ruby, then i don't care if it is runtime or compiled
<tobiasvl>
ah
<tobiasvl>
indeed
<timgauthier>
since most ruby apps require a specific amount of technical knowledge to use, then who cares if I have to have my own ruby runtime and libraries
<timgauthier>
if i am technical enough to use ruby programs, then i am likely technical enough to know how to do so
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<workmad3>
timgauthier: 'most ruby apps require a specific amount of technical knowledge' <-- I'd disagree here... probably most ruby apps are webapps and used by plenty of non-technical people ;)
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<timgauthier>
well that goes into the rails/sinatra/frameworks
<timgauthier>
but yets
<timgauthier>
yes*
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<workmad3>
timgauthier: I guess what you're saying is really more 'Ruby hasn't really broken into the realm of large, traditional, monolithic desktop GUI apps'
<timgauthier>
yeah
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<timgauthier>
well, more i'm saying that ruby isn't really seem like it is to be used for those types of apps
<timgauthier>
it is more likely able to be used for that then say Javascript
<timgauthier>
and it would likely do a better job then say Java
<atmosx>
workmad3: if you are good with OB dev who hard can it be to master Objec-c + cocoa?
<workmad3>
timgauthier: nothing about ruby says that it's not intended for that sort of dev...
<timgauthier>
then why are most ruby based apps very rudimentary?
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<timgauthier>
like the thing about ruby to me is that it is very very powerful, more powerful then PHP ever could imagine being. yet it can be used in applications similar to php
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<workmad3>
timgauthier: because most ruby devs write unix tools or web apps
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<atmosx>
ObjC is a bit more verbose but the concepts are the same. Getting used to xCode could be a pain though
<atmosx>
I had to prepare a sample-thesis for a class in Ms Word. It was a huge pain in the ass. I had to do everything manually :-(. Latex is so much easier. And the prof wouldn't accept a PDF, blah.
<timgauthier>
but in theory we could build actual desktop applications in ruby that are running on a server to control enterprise level web cms and commerce systems
<workmad3>
timgauthier: 'desktop applications in ruby that are running on a server' <-- that's kinda a contradiction
<atmosx>
timgauthier: that sounds extremely pooer design
<atmosx>
workmad3: he wants a desktop GUI to access a server's data I think.
<atmosx>
workmad3: but what about portability, etc. It's a mess
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<atmosx>
and Java sucks...
<workmad3>
atmosx: it's possible... but that isn't what he *said* so I'm pointing out the contradiction ;)
<workmad3>
atmosx: as what you described is a traditional client-server architecture (fairly sound and standard design) with a GUI client rather than e.g. a command line or html/browser client
<timgauthier>
yeah i want something that is actually the server
<timgauthier>
i don't know or care where the binary for the interface sits
<timgauthier>
it could be web browser, or it could be a downloaded and executed ruby app
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<timgauthier>
it just seems like, for that to work, you need something else to actually act as the gui interface, either HTML (rails etc) or some other language (c for os x etc)
<atmosx>
workmad3: yeah, but given the fact that the world is shifting away from GUI and closer to everything over http, why would you want to go back in the 90s?
<timgauthier>
because i liked that part of the 90's?
<workmad3>
timgauthier: you *could* write an entire gui system in ruby... with unix, you'd probably need C interfaces to obtain the drawing buffers, etc.
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<timgauthier>
and because in a lot of cases the shift isn't good
<workmad3>
timgauthier: but no one has bothered because it's kinda pointless
<timgauthier>
a native app is still a good thing to have
<workmad3>
timgauthier: instead we have bindings to already established gui frameworks (such as gnome)
<timgauthier>
sure i can use the numbers document my fiancée and I share through the web app version of numbers.
<timgauthier>
but the desktop app is much snappier on my macbook air then any web app has been. the interface breaks less often, and it can handle losing my damn connection
<atmosx>
workmad3: just to keep a windows version, linux version and mac version?! Or write shitty java guis?
<atmosx>
workmad3: web-interface + API for mobile applications and you're all set IMHO.
<workmad3>
timgauthier: so basically what you're saying currently is that the numbers webapp is crappy :)
<timgauthier>
no
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<timgauthier>
i'm saying the numbers web app is the best web app interface i've used, but even that isn't as good as a desktop app
<rdark>
There's always gtk2, if you're on linux..
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<workmad3>
timgauthier: well, seeing as it's easily possible to have snappy web interfaces that survive lack of connection nowadays, it kinda sounds like you are :P
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<atmosx>
timgauthier: buy a chromebook see how that goes
<timgauthier>
what web apps have you used that you would consider having a good interface for that? :|
<timgauthier>
i tried out chrome os, no thanks
<timgauthier>
i dislike that interface entirely, it feels far to confined to what the web can present
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<atmosx>
timgauthier: gmail, icloud (the whole things), google docs, twitter, facebook, foursquare, bootcamp, ... should I continue?
<workmad3>
timgauthier: also, plenty of native GUIs are clunky, over-engineered, have crap responses and, if they have a client-server aspect, lack any ability to survive a connection loss
<timgauthier>
yeah thats true workmad3 i guess i'm trying to paint this too black and white
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<timgauthier>
gmail is ... yeah i don't use the gmail web client
<timgauthier>
apple mail is better, and it sucks :P
<atmosx>
timgauthier: so what? You asked about the experience, not about which does what. It could work offline if you really want to and sync when you go online. Plus we were discussing about gui apps and you can write a facbeook gui app if you really wanted to.
<timgauthier>
google docs i've used in a pinch but i'd never open it to write something up in
<workmad3>
timgauthier: I bet that even your native Numbers would have trouble there... e.g. if you opened up a document on a dodgy network drive
<atmosx>
mailpile is pretty neat and it's JS based
<timgauthier>
i'll have to try mailpile
<timgauthier>
ehh workmad3 once the document is open its fine, because it does everything client side until you are done then it sends the changes.
<atmosx>
timgauthier: why? You have thunderbid a gui program
<atmosx>
timgauthier: why would you wanna use a web-based application?
<atmosx>
apparently firefox has the same views as we do :-)
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<timgauthier>
mozilla stopped maintaining it, and then boom it died basically
<timgauthier>
firefox is the most behind browser,
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<atmosx>
behind or not, everything is going on-line, so basically offline and stand-alone desktop applications will look like dinosaurs in 5 years
<timgauthier>
people keep saying that
<workmad3>
timgauthier: firefox is more behind than IE? :P
<timgauthier>
yes actually FF *is* more behind then IE
<atmosx>
later all
<timgauthier>
cya atmosx
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<workmad3>
timgauthier: how so?
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<timgauthier>
it is less standards complaint then the latest versions of IE
<timgauthier>
most of the workarounds in CSS and HTML right now are for FF
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<timgauthier>
to make the latest version of FF render up to standard, or to deal with FF just simply refusing to render standard features so that we have fail-back
<timgauthier>
and i'm not even talking about like crazy edge case CSS3 things, i mean simple crap
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<workmad3>
timgauthier: examples please
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<timgauthier>
i'm trying to think of one off hand, box-shadow was a big one for a while but i believe they've mostly caught up
<timgauthier>
i'm restarting safari because i just broke it :P
<workmad3>
timgauthier: and it's been in FF since FF4
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<timgauthier>
i am not as fast as you guys at going and finding shit, sec.
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<voycey>
what do people recommend as the fastest way to set up a rails environment without using a VM (will be running side by side with a LAMP stack) on Ubuntu?
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<timgauthier>
its mostly since css3 that FF hasn't kept up
<timgauthier>
yeah i can't find the report card i was looking at before
<timgauthier>
its not terrible
<timgauthier>
its not that FF went backwards
<timgauthier>
its just IE caught up
<workmad3>
timgauthier: we're now on FF 29
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<workmad3>
timgauthier: the only comparisons I ever saw that claimed IE had better CSS3 support than FF were MSs own comparisons... where they only compared with the stuff they'd implemented in IE, not with the whole of CSS3 and HTML5 (some of which they point blank refuse to ever support)
<timgauthier>
i'll look more carefully in the future, maybe i fell to one of those
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<workmad3>
timgauthier: I've still yet to see a CSS hack for something other than IE too, btw ;)
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<workmad3>
timgauthier: I've seen the need for prefixed selectors in FF after e.g. chrome has supported the unprefixed version... and vice-versa
<timgauthier>
eh, most of the crap i've seen has been to keep IE 6 working :|
<workmad3>
s/selectors/styles
<workmad3>
timgauthier: yeah, I don't bother with that anymore :)
<timgauthier>
but using -moz is a hack, and having to do a couple of things differently so that moz does the same thing as safari and chrome is annoying.
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<workmad3>
timgauthier: my default web server setup can't even be connected to with IE6 ;)
<timgauthier>
that said, that is design on the web, you have to build your shit to work in that type of world
<timgauthier>
what?!
<workmad3>
timgauthier: IE6 only runs on windows XP... my default webserver setups require SSL features that XP doesn't even understand
<workmad3>
timgauthier: ergo, IE6 is out the picture :)
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<timgauthier>
ah
<workmad3>
but then, MS themselves no longer support IE6 and XP... so why should I? :D
<timgauthier>
my problem is some of my clients target people who are in giant bass awkward corporations that think they are more secure still running their old ass custom deployments of XP
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<deepy>
workmad3: which SSL features are that?
<workmad3>
deepy: SNI
<deepy>
oh
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<Hanmac>
timgauthier: be happy, while i learned Programming we also had win2000 on some pcs ;P
<deepy>
Hanmac: no 9x strugglers?
<workmad3>
deepy: if I could, I'd also turn off TLSv1 on my servers... but that excludes a few too many setups for even my liking :(
<Hanmac>
deepy: i dont think so ... maybe somewhere in the storage
<Hanmac>
sometimes i thought we had older tech then the guys on Warehouse13
<timgauthier>
I live in a world where design means inclusive, so cutting people out is a tough choice to make. I try not to cut people out entirely, I just make sure that the site works (usually they get a very basic stripped down version)
<deepy>
<p>Your browser only supports this disclaimer, please update to see more of the site</p>?
<workmad3>
timgauthier: I'm inclusive... right up until the point where that compromises security
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<timgauthier>
yeah, i mean if you are building something that requires or uses security for its access then definitely
<workmad3>
timgauthier: if I have to allow broken SSL versions just to talk to the browser, then that means the entire security of the site is compromised for *everyone*
<workmad3>
timgauthier: which I won't do... so that tiny 1% of people outside of china still using IE6 can just get error screens if they ever even end up on one of my sites :)
<timgauthier>
yea
<deepy>
Hanmac: look at the clock on the two pictures
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<timgauthier>
my last client was for my fathers company, and he does training for people in the insurance industry
<timgauthier>
and it is crazy in the bank/insurance industry how many of them still use winXP
<timgauthier>
and IE6
<Hanmac>
deepy thats part of the joke ... PS: you might need to see the series from where the picture is taken to understand it
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<timgauthier>
because they don't want to update something somewhere so they keep their entire system insecure, then secure it by just disconnecting it from the internet.
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<deepy>
I have seen both the series and the episode :-)
<deepy>
But I was thinking of the widget clock
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<workmad3>
timgauthier: I have better SSL practices than most reputable banks in europe ;)
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<timgauthier>
hhaha
<timgauthier>
yeah, the fact that your bank doesn't show a withdrawal from a bank machine instantly is... rediculous
<timgauthier>
so why does the Facebook like button load crap every time you see it on a page? :|
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<DefV>
timgauthier: statistics
<timgauthier>
ah, the Facebook like button is doing stats ... :| but they don't let you have analytics... THAT would have been a smart move by google. Put the google plus button and it includes analytics!
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<_izz>
hey guys, I've got a 1.8.7/rails 2.3.17 project, and I'm looking for a testrunner for Jenkins
<_izz>
normally I run the tests with rake test, or from inside IntelliJ
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<_izz>
doesn't have to report coverage or anything fancy, just failing tests, and e-mail results
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<jhass>
_izz: #rubyonrails, also note that both versions are out of official support and won't get security patches
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<timgauthier>
aloha
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<AlexRussia>
hola
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<AntelopeSalad>
does anyone know of a gem like table_print except not oriented towards AR so much? i just want to tableize an array
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<Mattx>
Hey
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<Mattx>
there was an array method to check if there exist an element with a certain criteria, something like this: ![].select({|e| e == "whatever"}).empty?
<Mattx>
what is cool about .any? is that it doesn't evaluate all the elements
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<workmad3>
Mattx: indeed, .any? and .all? short-circuit similarly to || and &&
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<Mattx>
yep
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<Mattx>
btw, I always thought that "or" looks better than "||" (same for &&)
<workmad3>
Mattx: 'or' has massively lower precedence than ||
<workmad3>
Mattx: they are not equivalent in ruby
<Mattx>
yeah, I know
<Mattx>
I'm just saying
<workmad3>
ok... just came across a bug in legacy code yesterday where someone had done 'or' instead of || :)
<Mattx>
you almost always use || instead of "or"
<Mattx>
it would be nice if it was the other way around
<Mattx>
|| being the one with less precedence
<Mattx>
:P
<workmad3>
I'm perfectly happy with || tbh
<Mattx>
it's a matter of styles I guess
<workmad3>
I see || and I recognise it as 'or' quicker than I do the word 'or' :)
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<workmad3>
and then there's also | and & for bitwise, with no word-equivalents afaik, and then ||=, &&=, |= and &= which would just look wrong with 'or' and 'and', and inconsistent if || was the control-flow operator :)
<Mattx>
oh well, you've a bug in your retina processor hehe
<Mattx>
you're right bout or=
<Mattx>
foo or= []
<Mattx>
haha
<workmad3>
it's something I don't like about 'I would like to change X for Y' type statements... they ignore the wider context way too much ;)
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<timgauthier>
wait, what would cause a bug because of or instead of ||?
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<timgauthier>
| by the way is a PITA to type on a german keyboard
<Mattx>
workmad3, || could be the same as "or", and we could add ||| or something for less precedence ;)
<Mattx>
if foo or bar # would be fine
<Mattx>
as well as foo ||= []
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<Mattx>
timgauthier, you don't really use "or" much in ruby
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<timgauthier>
really?
<workmad3>
timgauthier: the bug was 'temp_value = foo or bar or bazz or buzz'
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<Mattx>
I used to use it when I started, and I faced lot of bugs because of that
<tobiasvl>
it's fine to use "or" as long as you know what it is
<workmad3>
timgauthier: which ruby would see as '(temp_value = foo) or bar or bazz or buzz
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<timgauthier>
so it doesn't work to have or or or you have to switch to || ?
<timgauthier>
workmad3 which is how i read it
<timgauthier>
what they likely meant was this, or one of these three
<Mattx>
timgauthier, no, you read like this: tmp = (foo or bar or ...)
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<Mattx>
which is totally different
<workmad3>
^^
<Mattx>
(I'm guessing ^)
<workmad3>
timgauthier: the typical way to read that statement is 'temp_value is assigned the result of the boolean operation (foo or bar or bazz or buzz)'
<timgauthier>
ahhhh and you want it to be temp ok yaeh
<Mattx>
foo = false or true
<Mattx>
try this
<timgauthier>
i get it now, so how would you write that correctly workmad3 ?
<Mattx>
then print foo
<workmad3>
timgauthier: s/or/||
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<timgauthier>
huh that means nothing to me... :S could you put the original statement in the right way?
<Mattx>
foo = false || true
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<Mattx>
timgauthier, just replace "or" by "||"
<workmad3>
timgauthier: s/or/|| == switch 'or' for '||'
<Mattx>
and "and" by "&&"
<timgauthier>
all of them?
<workmad3>
timgauthier: yup
<timgauthier>
'temp_value = foo || bar || bazz || buzz'
<Mattx>
timgauthier, it depends on the code, I guess sometimes a) it's the same and b) you really intended to use "or"
<workmad3>
yup
<timgauthier>
what does it read if you put 'temp_value = foo || bar or bazz or buzz'
<workmad3>
(temp_value = foo || bar) or bazz or buzz
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<workmad3>
so the assignment happens with the result of foo || bar, then that is 'or'ed with bazz or buzz
<timgauthier>
so then it would say you want that temp value which = foo or bar, or you want bazz, or you want buzz?
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<workmad3>
timgauthier: right... except that the return value of this line is being ignored
<timgauthier>
yeah
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<timgauthier>
its completely skipping that
<workmad3>
timgauthier: you can also use () to fix the issue
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<timgauthier>
yeah you would put 'temp_value = ( foo or bar or bazz or buzz )'
<workmad3>
timgauthier: and seeing as in my particular case, the method was doing 'temp_value = foo or bar or bazz; return temp_value' you could also have the entire body of the method as 'foo or bar or bazz'
<timgauthier>
and then it does exactly what it looks like it does right?
<timgauthier>
yeah you wouldn't even need the temp_value right?
<timgauthier>
just foo or bar or bazz
<workmad3>
yup
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<timgauthier>
and then return
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<timgauthier>
THAT... is what kicks the SHIT out of PHP
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<Mattx>
tbh I don't think it's that useful anyway :P
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<workmad3>
basically, this was code written by people who professed to have been using ruby for longer than I have, who managed to write 3 of these methods in practically the only way possible for them to have a bug :)
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<timgauthier>
hahaha
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<timgauthier>
well Mattx i am still saddled with PHP for client work due to hosting constraints etc
<timgauthier>
i'm already pushing them away from wordpress, so i can't go TOO far
<workmad3>
timgauthier: heh, I'd push them towards wordpress if it fits... but set them up on wordpress.com or something so I didn't have to host that crappile myself :)
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<timgauthier>
using wordpress for most sites is liking using a d60 dozer to remove an anthill from your front yard.
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<shevy>
workmad3 why are || and or not equivalent in precedence?
<workmad3>
timgauthier: nah... because that sounds like fun
<workmad3>
shevy: because our lord matz decreed that they wouldn't be
<timgauthier>
workmad3 yeah actually it would be, but its going to destroy your sidewalk, your front road, your yard, and maybe part of your house
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<workmad3>
grrr.... 'Invalid: Password is too long (>= 32 characters).'
<timgauthier>
lol
<timgauthier>
wtf sock lazy devs
<timgauthier>
i don't get how precedence changes that but yeah :P
<deepy>
workmad3 best databases has both an upper and lower limit on passwords
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<workmad3>
deepy: there shouldn't be an upper limit
<timgauthier>
but that limit is put in place by the person who made the site no?
<deepy>
workmad3: all passwords should be exactly 8 character long
<shevy>
lol
<workmad3>
deepy: oh, and they should also silently truncate anything past 8 characters, right?
<shevy>
YES
<mikecmpbll>
:D
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<shevy>
YOU ARE NOT WORTHY TO BE INFORMED WHAT IT DOES INTERNALLY
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<deepy>
That's the cheap way to do it
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<shevy>
that's the brogrammer way to do it
<deepy>
You should also make sure to tell people that it needs to have at least 2 numbers in it
<tobiasvl>
for many years only the first 8 chars were used for authentication on linux at my uni
<shevy>
I hate that
<tobiasvl>
SILENTLY
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<shevy>
my favourite passwords have only one number in it
<deepy>
and since it has to be secure it has to have a character in it oo
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<tobiasvl>
and they need numbers, letters and SPECIAL CHARS
<tobiasvl>
yes
<mikecmpbll>
exactly 8 characters, 3 uppercase, 3 lowercase, 2 numbers, that's the most securist password.
<deepy>
and no letter nor numbers may be adjacent because that's not secure
<tobiasvl>
we're adopting passphrases now though
<deepy>
and the same letter/character/number may not appear twice
<mikecmpbll>
lmao
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<deepy>
query also uses LOWER()
<shevy>
passwords should be in the form of monty python holy grail when they tried to cross the bridge of death
<workmad3>
I got upset with google remote desktop when setting up PINs for my machines... it wouldn't let me use a 100-digit long PIN :(
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<mikecmpbll>
:D
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<timgauthier>
either make your input the full width, or remove the outline and then add your own focus state to a div wrapper that makes the outline go around both inputs!
<timgauthier>
mt
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<shevy>
noone has!
<shevy>
reading is old school
<shevy>
knowing is new school
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<shock_one>
Does anyone *know* if it worth preferring the ruby edition over the old school original?
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<timgauthier>
and i taking crazy pills? a designer is telling me that latex is a better way to write content then markdown for people to read if they don't know the "language"
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<apeiros>
timgauthier: hu? so in essence, he thinks latex is easier to learn than markdown?
<shock_one>
timgauthier, I agree with him. It's easier to write markdown, but what the heck do all there stars and symbols mean?
<timgauthier>
no no, i think markdown is easier to write, and yes apeiros he thinks that latex is easier and that people read latex and know what it means easier then people read markdown and know what it means
<apeiros>
lol
<apeiros>
nowaaaay
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<shock_one>
What do you think more clearly indicates a title: \title or ======
<shevy>
well
<shevy>
title gives you extra information
<shevy>
but I like = because the amount of = can denote the importance
<shevy>
=== World Dominationg
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<shevy>
== First targets
<shevy>
== Second Targets
<shevy>
== Profit!!!
<shevy>
title: would probably be best
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<shevy>
although I rarely use the new hash notation, it actually was a smart move IMO
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<timgauthier>
genau
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<timgauthier>
standard markdown doesn't use == it uses #
<timgauthier>
but yeah
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<timgauthier>
title: definitely means title: but it doesn't make sense in a plaintext context
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<timgauthier>
when you pass off a document written in markdown, you don't really need to explain anything to most people, there is a very simple visual hierarchy to the content.
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<timgauthier>
I mean, turn that to PDF or a HTML and render it in browser and yes, it is MUCH better
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<timgauthier>
but the idea of markdown was to make it so that a plaintext .txt file could contain all the formatting in an easy to read way
<Sp4rKy>
W 4
<timgauthier>
what?
<Xeago>
timgauthier: and could be edited from anywhere without requiring software etc
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<shevy>
timgauthier I like markdown formatting
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<shock_one>
I have to say that rendering isn't fair. We're talking about the source text, aren't we?
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<shevy>
in my helpers to cgi, I have a method called markdown() that uses kramdown to display markdown files properly
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<timgauthier>
shock_one yes
<jxf>
Is there a way to make a method that accepts a block, and then adds another method which only exists inside the scope of the block?
<Shackleford>
In irb, I am trying to use the split method on an array, however I keep getting “NoMethodError: undefined method `split' for [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8]:Array”
<timgauthier>
if we go with rendering, then who cares if it was in latex or markdown
<Shackleford>
are not all methods automatically in irb?
<shevy>
markdown .md is easier to modify than a .pdf, that is why I prefer it over .pdf
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<jxf>
Shackleford, split is not a method on Array
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<Shackleford>
ahh ok
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<shevy>
jxf all methods in ruby accept one block automatically
<jxf>
Shackleford, split is a String method that splits a string into an array
<Shackleford>
got it
<Shackleford>
thx
<timgauthier>
okay back to our previous un ruby related discussion :P
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<shevy>
jxf if I understand it correctly, you attempt to add a method that resides only in a block to a method?
<jxf>
shevy: That's the effect I want, yeah. I can get it by making an object, adding the method to that object, and then instance_eval'ing the block on that object.
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<jxf>
shevy: But that doesn't really work, because the block isn't evaluated in its original context.
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<shevy>
well, not sure how to do it but the way you describe it sounds as if you want a proc object
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<shevy>
metaprogramming is way over my poor head
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<shevy>
hmmm
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<shock_one>
jxf, I believe rspec includes all the possible methods inside the tests context. You could take a look how they do it.
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<banister>
jxf why not just yield the str to the block?
<jhass>
jxf: 1) wrapper.send(:extend, M) 2) don't do the wrapper in the first place
<MZAWeb>
shevy: that's *crappy* PHP
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<banister>
jxf with "hello" do |value| value ; end instead of with "hello" do; with_value; end
<shevy>
MZAWeb it's 4chan php!!!!!
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<timgauthier>
shevy same thing
<timgauthier>
:P
<MZAWeb>
I know, I saw it. Still crappy PHP. Point being, you can write crappy code in any lang
<shock_one>
shevy, this file has 2.5kloc. What do you expect from such people?
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<MZAWeb>
Also worth noting that this particular instance of crappy PHP serves 500MM visits / month
<shevy>
shock_one pffft what do you expect from java then
<jxf>
jhass, (1) will have the wrong effect, won't it? The array modified on line 11 will be the *wrapper*'s array instead of C's, right?
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<shevy>
MZAWeb precisely! so it must be good
<shock_one>
shevy, are you saying that in Java world it's OK to have such huge files?
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<shevy>
shock_one sure, why else do they use so many characters and lines?
<shevy>
it's the second best language according to TIOBE
<jxf>
banister: Hmm.. that's a little different. I don't want to make a *value* available to the block, I want to make a method available to the block.
<jhass>
jxf: sure, I've no idea why you do the wrapper stuff in the first place
<banister>
jxf why?
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<jxf>
banister: Because that's how I'd like the DSL to work.
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<banister>
jxf DSLs have fallen out of favor in the last 2 years, they're horrible, esp ones that use instance_eval
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<jhass>
jxf: you probably could store self and delegate to that with method_missing in wrapper, but as banister points out it only gets messier
<jxf>
banister: OK. What do you suggest as an alternative?
<shock_one>
shevy, it's not true. I understand that there surely are a lot of huge Java files in the world, but they don't suppose to be such. Bob Martin, who writes in Java and is an author of a book about code style, recommends to writes classes not longer that a hundred of lines or so.
<banister>
jxf to write a normal API and not use DSLs ;)
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<jxf>
banister: Unfortunately, part of the messiness is because I have to do some things with ActiveRecord.
<banister>
jxf ah ok
<banister>
goodluck ;)
<jxf>
banister: And it seems like a DSL is probably the simplest way to encapsulate that. :(
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<timgauthier>
how... do you reverse the order of something?
<baweaver>
expensive, but it's done miracles for people with CT at work
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<timgauthier>
that missing feature in atom.io is literally why i've stopped testing it
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<omosoj>
baweaver, that was recommended in a Ruby Rogues podcast I listened to yesterday.
<baweaver>
Go figure.
<baweaver>
I just know anyone who's come close to CT has one of those.
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<baweaver>
Either that, or you could switch languages. If you're working Java, it's notorious for destroying your hands.
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<baweaver>
If you're working Ruby, it doesn't get much better than that
<horrorvacui>
COBOL!
<horrorvacui>
jk
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<horrorvacui>
COBOL won't work your pinky as bad.
<baweaver>
It won't, it'll destroy your soul long before it destroys your hands
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<apeiros>
holy… nice, pry now shows code for C extensions too
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<omosoj>
baweaver, what's CT?
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<baweaver>
Carpal Tunnel
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<horrorvacui>
Career Termination
<horrorvacui>
:P
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<omosoj>
Ah, I had some wrist problems when I was working at a standing desk but I adjusted the height and it went away. Been lucky in that regard *knocks on wood*
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<graud>
hi all, i want to take an existing ruby script and make a gem - can someone please point me in the direction of the ‘community standard’ tutorial on making gems?
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<apeiros>
nice, my own little ORM beats AR by a factor of 6.3 on MyModel.all.to_a
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<apeiros>
(5000 records, 7 columns)
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<arubincloud>
apeiros: How about DataMapper?
<apeiros>
don't know enough to test it. if you can give me the basic code to hook it up, I'll test it.
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<apeiros>
I use postgres
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<arubincloud>
I have only dabbled with it years ago.
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<Shackleford>
jhass, cool
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<apeiros>
gotta test memory consumption too. but from a preliminary test it should be ~2-4x more compact there too. it stores persisted and dirty state too, like AR
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<apeiros>
loading AR = 25MB RSS, loading my ORM = 5MB RSS (but mine is far from done, so that's not a fair comparison)
<Hanmac>
jhass: i am sometimes a know-it-all if i can ;P (and i played sometimes with the darker parts of ruby)
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<apeiros>
loading data (5000 records) with AR = 11MB, with my ORM: 4MB
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<jhass>
kilk_: classes only for things that access common state, modules for everything else
<jhass>
always add newlines for method defs (def fix_action...)
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<jhass>
and before ends too (def finished?)
<Hanmac>
Shackleford: in "meth!" and "meth?" ! and ? are part of the method name, that can be a bit confusing in "@id.nil? ? 0 : @id" where the first ? is part of the method name "nil?" and the second ? is part of the "<> ? <> : <>" construct
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<jhass>
kilk_: if curr.isbot then PlayerAction.pay(self, finish) end # PlayerAction.pay(self, finish) if curr.bot?
<Shackleford>
ok, what is the name for that second construct?
<kilk_>
isbot is value
<kilk_>
not method
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<jhass>
I'd make a "getter" for it then
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<jhass>
and it's a method, attr_reader/accessor just defines the methods for you
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<Hanmac>
Shackleford: thats an if - else - constuct as one-liner
<jhass>
kilk_: for your GameState "enum" we tend to use symbols in ruby land
<jhass>
:begin_step, :can_buy etc
<Shackleford>
got it, looks exactly like the ternary operator in JS
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<Hanmac>
jhass: i have special functions in my gems that converts C-enum <-> Ruby-Symbol
<horrorvacui>
I hope kilk_ is writing it all down jhass :P
<kilk_>
i am trying )
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<jhass>
kilk_: also inside a class decide on accessing an instance variable directly or via the accessor, don't mix
<jhass>
we all got logs, don't we? ;)
* certainty
has some log2s
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<apeiros>
ah, I just noticed I'm missing attribute type casting. so that's an obvious part where mine will get a slow down.
<jhass>
kilk_: I'd also pay a bit more attention to your spacing, like def foo(a, b, c) instead of def foo(a,b,c), but then that's me being allergic to that :P
<momomomomo>
Hanmac: It's Trusty Tahr
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<jxf>
apeiros: You are a brave person, making an ORM.
<kilk_>
what mean '&' in .sort_by!(&:id)
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<kilk_>
?
<jhass>
kilk_: your indentation is also not consistent through the files, try to stick to two spaces
<yxhuvud>
kilk: it is the equivalent of sort_by {|e| e.id}
<apeiros>
though, not sure the first would qualify as ORM. it was only "half way" an ORM
<jxf>
apeiros: (!)
<apeiros>
this one won't come close to AR's feature-list either
<apeiros>
that's not the aim anyway.
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<momomomomo>
Hanmac: I don't get the joke
<jhass>
kilk_: it's a little trick, &object converts an object to a proc and that proc to a block and passes it to the method, Symbol#to_proc is implemented to call the method having the same name as the symbol on the first argument
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<Hanmac>
momomomomo: keep watching
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<momomomomo>
aint nobody got time for that Hanmac
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<jhass>
kilk_: I'd make GameUtil a module since it has no common state
<jhass>
kilk_: also no idea what g is
<momomomomo>
Whyyyyy is the hadoop channel so dead
<jhass>
(that's again, use better variable names)
<apeiros>
nice, attribute access is roughly 2x as fast too
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<jhass>
again, pl = if cl.owner.nil? then " " else draw_player(cl.owner) end # player = cl.owner ? " " : draw_player(cl.owner)
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<Hanmac>
jhass: you forgot to switch
<Hanmac>
player = cl.owner ? draw_player(cl.owner) : " "
<jhass>
ups, right
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<jhass>
kilk_: i=0; @map.each do |l| # @map.each_with_index do |tile, index|
<Hanmac>
kilk_: what kind of "map" format do you use?
<kilk_>
from file
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<mordof>
i imagine this may not make a whole lot of sense to do in reality, so bear with me (curiosity is why i ask). Is there a better way to create an array out of a range than this? (1..4).each do |n| myvar << n; end
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<jhass>
ph88_: last[x] == last.[](x)
<ph88_>
jhass: what are they ? i could only find docs on last()
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<ph88_>
last.[](x) <-- o_O
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<jhass>
ph88_: it calls .last and then the [] method
<jhass>
on the result
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<jhass>
.last without an argument returns the last element (probably a String)
<ph88_>
this is what i meant by "ruby is ambiguous"
<ph88_>
can not read code without executing it ?!
<jhass>
mordof: (1..4).to_a or [*1..4] (prefer the first)
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<mordof>
ooh right - typecasting
<mordof>
what's the [*1..4] about?
<jhass>
it's a splat
<s2013>
anyone tried codekata
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* mordof
googles what a splat is
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<DouweM>
ph88_: how is that ambiguous?
<ph88_>
how is it not ? :|
<jhass>
foo(*obj) calls .to_ary on obj and passes the elements of the resulting array as individual arguments to foo
<mordof>
ph88_: ambiguous !== you don't understand it. they are two different things
<jhass>
^
<DouweM>
what mordof said
<benzrf>
mordof: in general, splats are used to inject iterables into places where comma-separated lists are expected
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<ph88_>
so you guys saying that line of code is just perfectly clear to you what it does ?
<benzrf>
mordof: i.e. in argument lists, in arrays, in unpacking
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<benzrf>
ph88_: perhaps you mean that ruby is dynamically typed?
<DouweM>
ph88_: yes
<jhass>
ph88_: pretty much. if you know what type data.last returns
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<jhass>
which you usually do if you work with the code
<ankov>
store without having
<DouweM>
ph88_: the issue here isn't Ruby, it's your understanding of it. which is perfectly normal if you're a beginner, but to more experienced users it's quite clear
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<centrx>
kilk_, Line up the .group_by and .map under the .select
<benzrf>
jcromartie: hey, im still in HS
<benzrf>
what do i put for schooling
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<jhass>
kilk_: hm, that .map should be a .to_a I think
<ph88_>
DouweM: what does that line do ?
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<benzrf>
also it wont let me put down n/a or 0 for professional programming
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<kilk_>
i though it would be difficult to do groupping
<jcromartie>
good catch benzrf thanks
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<kilk_>
jhass., seems work correct
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<jcromartie>
I just updated the rule
<ph88_>
what's the [] method ??
<benzrf>
how does group_by work again
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<benzrf>
ph88_: it's the method that gets called when u say object[]
<benzrf>
object[3]
<jhass>
kilk_: you can decompose the arrays in groups in the block argument, for example with three element arrays: groups.each do |a, b, c| (give proper names to a, b, c) or for arbitrary length, I only care about the second: groups.each do |_, want, *_|
<kilk_>
centrx, do you think if line up group and map it will be easier to read?
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<centrx>
kilk_, Yes exactly.
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<ph88_>
oooooooohhhh
<ph88_>
what's the [] operator / method then ?
<jhass>
benzrf: group_by makes a hash where the key is the return value of the block and the value an array of the values for which that key is returned
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<jhass>
ph88_: that highly depends on the class you call it on
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<centrx>
ph88_, It has syntactic sugar to convert object[element] into object.[](element)
<benzrf>
jhass: ahuman
<benzrf>
*ah
<benzrf>
handy!
<DouweM>
ph88_ have you ever seen array[10] in another language? it's the same thing, except that it's implemented as a method and can also be called as array.[10]. it's just array subscripting
<DouweM>
ph88_: or hash subscripting etc. you can have it do whatever you want, but usually it's to look up an element in a container
<DouweM>
ph88_: by index or by key, in those cases
<ph88_>
DouweM: when it grab the single last element here data.last[opts[:guid_attr].to_sym] how does it make sense to select an element from this single item ??
<ph88_>
maybe an array in an array ??
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<jhass>
ph88_: I already told you to find out what data.last returns
<DouweM>
if data.last is a hash, you're lookup the value for key opts[:guid_attr].to_sym
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<DouweM>
to_sym returns a symbol, not a number, so it's a hash not an array
<DouweM>
but yeah, it's a nested structure
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<jhass>
it might as well be a custom class that implements []
<ph88_>
Proc objects are blocks of code that have been bound to a set of local variables. <-- what does this mean "bound to a set of local variables" ?
<RubyPanther>
ph88_: It means "ignore that part until later" or, if later, it means they are "closures"
<RubyPanther>
That is an aspect of blocks that good code rarely makes use of
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<jhass>
mordof: a = *1 #=> [1], so *1 on the right hand side creates an array, which is then decomposed. since it only has one element, b is nil
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<jhass>
and *c is empty array (since there's nothing left to consume)
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<ph88_>
RubyPanther: until later ? in my understanding a method is always *ignored* until it's called ?
<mordof>
jhass: ah - gets discarded after the action takes place, that makes sense.
<unsmell>
does JSON in ruby 1.9.3 have any method for turning a Hash into a json-syntax string?
<RubyPanther>
ph88_: later as in, not today
<mordof>
jhass: is that because it's a Fixnum type? or would that happen with any type that actually contained data?
<unsmell>
there's #parse that turns json strings into Hashes, but I can't find a method to do the opposite
<jhass>
mordof: iirc it's for any type
<Rylee>
yes
<mordof>
ok
<baweaver>
hash.to_json
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<RubyPanther>
as in, don't study closures early in Ruby unless you already know what closures are, because we don't use them as such, we just use them to group code and run it repeatedly over a set of values
<ph88_>
RubyPanther: what determine it when it gets executed ?
<Rylee>
[2] pry(main)> {}.to_json
<Rylee>
=> "{}"
<RubyPanther>
ph88_: I'm not saying it gets executed later
<jhass>
mordof: which makes [*i_am_not_sure_if_array_or_object].each work
<RubyPanther>
I'm saying ask about it later
<unsmell>
baweaver & rylee
<RubyPanther>
or, drop everything and spend 2 weeks studying closures
<unsmell>
thanks!
<Rylee>
enjoy!
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<Rylee>
of course this requires you to require 'json' first
<mordof>
jhass: right. splats definitely are more useful in areas where the data types could vary, and it's not really a concern what the outcome comes out as provided it's something that the code following it could act on, or not, easily
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<mordof>
does that make sense? that's what i'm gathering from this anyway
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<RubyPanther>
>> class Pony; def to_a; [:mane,:tail] end end ; puts *Pony.new
<jhass>
mordof: they are useful for tricks/shortcuts/idioms in that area. Their main usage should stay at passing an array as arguments to a method and for decomposing arrays
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<ph88_>
thanks for the help all !!
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<Rylee>
hmm, what's the nil come from at the end there RubyPanther
<RubyPanther>
Rylee: what nil?
<jhass>
Rylee: puts return value
<Rylee>
ahhhh
<Rylee>
okay
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<mordof>
jhass: i'm not overly familiar with the terminology of "decomposing" something. when you say decomposing an array - is that similar to essentially using an array.pop / array.unshift and supplying each item to whatever is utilizing it?
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<mordof>
i'm not sure if there's more to this that i should know first. i'm not too far into ruby yet
<jhass>
no, like a, b, *c = array or [array,array,array].each do |a, b, *c|
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<shevy>
mordof in general, in ruby you can use * to put stuff into something, in a method. For instance: def foo(*i) <--- now you can pass as many arguments as you want to foo()
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<jhass>
which can get a lot more sophisticated, like a, (b, *c), (d, (e, f)) = [a, [b, ca, cb], [d, [e, f]]]
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<mordof>
an area i have zero familiarity with... this will take some getting used to
<mordof>
i'm following in a general sense, but not enough to really understand it entirely :/ blegh
<mordof>
writing a log handler that returns the input after logging it, lol
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<horrorvacui>
ground breaking stuff :P
<mordof>
hehe
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<RubyPanther>
That is the power of pragmatism, of valuing what is easy for the programmer instead of getting ideological and principled about what "should" get returned by things
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<mordof>
:) nice
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<mordof>
ohh i see. I'm using ruby 1.9.3 or something - these docs are 2.1.1
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<mordof>
Hash creation doesn't need the { } in 2.1.1... that was confusing xD
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<mg^>
Our devs who don't write tests first... never write tests ever
<certainty>
thanks
<tjbiddle>
jhass: Thanks :)
<horrorvacui>
I think BDD is kinda immune to DHH's arguments.
<horrorvacui>
BDD and drive out unit tests from there
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<shevy>
mg^ well there is more than one way to test, surely they must run some kind of quality assurance at one point?
<sweeper>
I write tests second :P
<sweeper>
i.e. code the mjority of a given set of functionality, then write some tests, then run code coverage tools :3
<mg^>
shevy: yes. It involves hiring a number of offshore human mouse mover-clicker types.
<shevy>
hehehe
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<mg^>
testing the correctness of functions, interfaces, etc. is not a usual thing here
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<mg^>
but we do have some guys working to change that
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<Shackleford>
Here is a simple loop I am working on, where I loop from 0 to 100 by 5, I am trying to put each iteration into an array. But not sure what I am doing wrong, any help? https://gist.github.com/anonymous/ee893b17e5f69ed6ed7f
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<horrorvacui>
I think the single biggest reason I test is just to make it easier to refactor without breaking shit
<the_f0st_>
has anyone used event machine websocket? I'm trying to figure out how to refrence the ws to manually send a message
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<dsimon>
Shackleford, a[b] will retrieve the value from a at index b
<dsimon>
i get the feeling that you think it pushes b onto the end of a, but it doesn't
<horrorvacui>
array << '20' << '21' is probably slower because of what its doing. It is probably faster still to use << if you break that up on multiple lines
<dsimon>
why would that be faster?
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<shevy>
<< is faster for one elements
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<horrorvacui>
one is a method call nested in a method call vs just a method call
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<dsimon>
horrorvacui, oh, for the temporary allocation of <<'s return value?
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<horrorvacui>
yeah I'm just guessing though
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<jhass>
no, array << '20' << '21' is array.<<('20').<<('21')
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<horrorvacui>
let me benchmark it just so I don't look like a fool if I'm wrong :P
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<horrorvacui>
still slower then
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<jhass>
why would array.<<('20').<<('21') with << returning self, be slower than array.<<('20'); array.<<('21'); ?
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<horrorvacui>
no no
<horrorvacui>
not versus each other I'm just saying vs the push
<dsimon>
ooooh
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<dsimon>
by "that" you meant "push"
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<the_f0ster>
anyone familiar with em-websocket ?
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<havenwood>
the_f0ster: i've looked at it but not used it
<the_f0ster>
havenwood: hmm. so they have it setup like |ws| { ws.onmessage { } }
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<jhass>
the_f0ster: just ask your question, don't try to find the right person for it ;)
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<havenwood>
the_f0ster: as a rule of thumb, if ilya touches it it's gold
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<the_f0ster>
i am runnign a w while loop inside of the ws.onmessage, to send a message back like ws.send, if i meet a condition, like polling something to see if it changes from HW
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<the_f0ster>
i have a print statement in teh whileloop, looks like it should be sending, but, my client never gets the message
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<the_f0ster>
just curiuous if there is something fundamentally flawed with having a big wait inside of my onmessage callback like that
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<cgcardona_>
i've called the twitter webservice and it returns me a Twitter object. How do I loop over that object and see the value of each on of it's properties?
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<jhass>
cgcardona_: look at the docs and which methods it implements
<jhass>
search for (something like) each
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<cgcardona_>
yea it says that some of the properties may come back null. I was hoping there was a way to just see which properties were on the object without having to read through all the docs (hopefully that didn't sound too lazy). thanks
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<jhass>
you don't need to read through all the docs
<cgcardona_>
I don't want to have to type out each property so that I can see it dumped to my console.
<jhass>
just the one class you're interested in
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<jhass>
(and it's included modules / parent)
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<cgcardona_>
i'm sure there is a way to check at runtime what properties are present on an object and what their values are.
<Shackleford>
I am iterating through 1..100, and want to replace an integer with a string (a la fizz buzz) what is the best method for this, or most commonly used method?
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<jhass>
sure, I can think about a dozen implementations for such "properties", so of course nothing that works for all of them
<jhass>
-> rtfm
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<jhass>
Shackleford: define "replace"
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<Shackleford>
the integer 3 should be “hello”
<jhass>
Shackleford: fizzbuzz is the sample for an obscure ruby construct called flipflop
<cgcardona_>
the be fair I'm asking where in the manual to read. It's not like I'm asking you to write my code. I'm asking what is the API for seeing which properties exist on an object and what their values are. Thanks for the help. I'll check google now.
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<Shackleford>
interesting
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<jhass>
cgcardona_: it's hard to help if all you get is "Twitter object" and "properties" which both aren't well defined terms in the ruby world
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<jhass>
Shackleford: you're iterating over range is all I know so far. No idea where you would replace something
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<Shackleford>
oh sorry, I have an empty array that I am pushing values into
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<Shackleford>
I am only pushing values % 3 == 0
<jhass>
so array << i == 3 ? "hello" : i ?
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<Shackleford>
ahh
<cgcardona_>
Ok i'm getting this returned https://dev.twitter.com/docs/platform-objects/tweets. When I `puts tweet` it only gives me `#<Twitter::Tweet:0x007fdbcc9a46d8>`. I just want to know without typing out each property that I see on that page is there a way to loop over what it returns and see which of the properties/attributes (whats the ruby word) are there and what their values are.
<Shackleford>
ok
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<dsimon>
cgcardona_, looks like you are using a Ruby twitter library
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<dsimon>
whereas that twitter page describes their raw JSON HTTP api
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<dsimon>
so what you really want is the documentation for whatever library you're using
<cgcardona_>
yes that is true. perhaps the meaning of the question is getting lost in the example. As a more generic question is it possible to see which properties exist on a ruby object and what their values are. Regardless of if it comes from this gem or not.
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<jhass>
that pages says: Attributes inherited from Base#attrs
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<cgcardona_>
thank you jhass i appreciate you digging into the docs.
<jhass>
which says "Also known as: to_h" and "Returns the value of attribute attrs"
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<jhass>
which pretty much sounds like what you want
<jhass>
and took me < 1 minute to look up in the docs, just with the right amount of information you implied to know
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<jhass>
and I don't know how often I should repeat that "properties" is not a defined term in ruby
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<dsimon>
cgcardona_, also, more generally when you just want to dump something for debugging purposes, the "inspect" method is often helpful
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<dsimon>
and when you want to see all the raw contents of an object, that's "instance_variables"
<cgcardona_>
jhass: what is the term? attributes?
<jhass>
attributes is still vague
<cgcardona_>
dsimon: thank you. I'm grateful.
<dsimon>
i think the official term is "instance variables"
<cgcardona_>
so what is the *exact* term in your opinion?
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<cgcardona_>
dsimon: got it.
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<jhass>
instance variables would a concrete thing. a hash would be a concrete thing. all attr_readers would be a concrete thing
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<jhass>
and already 3 implementations for what you call "properties" or "attributes"
<the_f0ster>
havenwood, jhass, so i figured out that my while loop doesnt run like i think it would inside of ws.onmessage { while()}
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<jhass>
cgcardona_: for example in your situation, attrs is an attr_reader for the instance variable @attrs which (I guess) points to a hash that contains your properties
<cgcardona_>
thank you jhass I appreciate your help.
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<mordof>
finally caught up.. lol
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<dsimon>
hm
<dsimon>
i think i would have a hard time finding the feed for the RSS
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<shevy>
test
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<atmosx>
test test
<havenwood>
test test test
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<atmosx>
havenwood: ever deployed a worker in rails/web apps?
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<havenwood>
atmosx: whatcha doing?
<shevy>
havenwood: ever walked naked through the streets?
<havenwood>
shevy: whatcha doing?
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<shevy>
nothing interesting :( I am trying to update some old thing I once wrote for work... it is so insanely boring... and I can't fully reproduce the old environment at home either, so I feel like blindly poking at different parts to see if it is all working (or if it all *could* work still)
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<shevy>
oh
<shevy>
and updating and extending documentation too
<havenwood>
shevy: then nakedness sounds right
<shevy>
hahaha
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<atmosx>
havenwood: I have an old sinatr aproject of mine that I'm trying to pick up, just watching the code. At some point I need to run a rsync via ssh via openvpn :-p. Now I was about to implement a script via cron to this, but I'm reading about 'workers' and I'm thinking that a worker might be a better approach
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<atmosx>
havenwood: although, the app rsync's sqlite3 databases locally, to extract data... I'd like to rsync only when they change and I haven't figure out a way to get this going. Maybe an API and an API call via guard on the client.
<havenwood>
atmosx: sidekiq and delayed_job are popular
<atmosx>
but this means that will have to run ruby on teh client too (clients are RPis hehe)
<havenwood>
atmosx: aha
<havenwood>
nice
<atmosx>
sidekiq, oh that's what sidekiq does
<atmosx>
after all
<atmosx>
nice
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<jheg>
o/
<havenwood>
\o
<shevy>
_o_
<shevy>
STOP!
* havenwood
brakes.
<shevy>
THOU SHALT NOT PASS!
<shevy>
until you have answered meee the questions three
<atmosx>
havenwood: HardWorker.perform_async('bob', 5) <-- this one calls 'bob' every 5 seconds or something?
<jheg>
love this room already
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<shevy>
What is your favourite colour?
<atmosx>
shevy: I don't have one
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<shevy>
that's not in the script!
<atmosx>
okay
<atmosx>
what's in the script, what do I have to say?
<shevy>
atmosx did you see the holy grail btw?
<atmosx>
pink?
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<atmosx>
shevy: what's that
<wmoxam>
no blue!
<havenwood>
european swallow?
<shevy>
well lancelot is the first to pass, he answers all questions
<atmosx>
reminds me of Indiana Jones and the da vinci code
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<atmosx>
havenwood: hey I'm european!
<atmosx>
in the large sense
<shevy>
the next one, I forgot who, copies all answers, but his favourite colour is a different one from lancelot, so he is get tossed to the side
<shevy>
*gets tossed
<havenwood>
shevy: splat!
<shevy>
atmosx yeah, indiana jones and the last crusade was cool too, sean connery totally fit to that role of an old and wise man
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<atmosx>
oh it was sean connery?
<jheg>
pinchers a pal was my fave
<atmosx>
who was waiting there for 500 years or something?
<atmosx>
so how can a sofware as sidekiq offer a 'professional version' of a gem?!
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<atmosx>
sidekiq pro
<atmosx>
blah
<atmosx>
let's start with the free version
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<atmosx>
shevy: I'll watch later :-P I'm too bored to even point the mouse there
<shevy>
hehe
* atmosx
uses vim binding for browsing with CHrome
<shevy>
ack
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<benzrf>
chrome?
<benzrf>
what, do u hate freedom or something?
<benzrf>
MOZILLA 5EVER
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<jheg>
I'm embarking on a ruby course in a few months - during the course i'll be developing a personal project. Is it possible to write a script in ruby that that takes an external page url in a form element, grabs that pages title and favicon, store them in a database for use on a webpage?
<atmosx>
havenwood: Add a worker in app/workers to process messages asynchronously: <-- what exactly are asynchronous messages?
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<jhass>
jheg: sure. mechanize might make it a bit easier but plain open-uri + nokogiri should make it easy already
<atmosx>
jheg: even basic can do that, provided you have the libraries.
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<atmosx>
jhass: I think we net::http he can do it also, if he puts some effort
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<atmosx>
Without gems
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<jhass>
open-uri is stdlib too
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<jheg>
thanks chaps most of what you said is over my head tbh but thanks for the starting points
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<shevy>
jheg write write write write
<shevy>
then write more
<shevy>
and then!
<shevy>
write more
<mikecmpbll>
and then
<mikecmpbll>
take hard drugs.
<jheg>
any go to tutorials for introductory ruby?
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<mikecmpbll>
eh. how do you learn best?
<jheg>
well I'm really sure how efficient my learning is
<atmosx>
How much ram do you need for redis to run? I've read somewhere 4 GB... is that so?
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<mikecmpbll>
atmosx: depends how much data you're storing :/
<atmosx>
nope 1 Million small Keys -> String Value pairs use ~ 100MB of memory.
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<atmosx>
mikecmpbll: hah for sure not 1 mil of instances
<jheg>
for example I've tight myself html css and the very basic level principles of programming from places like treehouse/codeacademy and plus me and some mates own and run a web design forum
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<jheg>
but its difficult as i have kids and a full time job so just in the evenings really
<shevy>
hmm
<jheg>
hence doing a 3 month course in Jan
<mikecmpbll>
just write code.
<shevy>
lol mikecmpbll
<shevy>
mikecmpbll he said he has no time!!!
<shevy>
jheg idea:
<mikecmpbll>
i get bored of people asking how to learn
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<mikecmpbll>
not being confrontational
<shevy>
your kids can learn ruby faster than you can
<jheg>
nah I have time to write code
<mikecmpbll>
just .. why do you want to learn ruby? probably to make something. so just make it
<mikecmpbll>
and learn as you go.
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<shevy>
he only wants to learn rails :<
<jheg>
its not the unwillingness to learn its learning in the most efficient manner I'm after
<benzrf>
taking 'courses' to learn programming is dumb
<shevy>
the most efficient way to learn ruby
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<shevy>
is by writing ruby scripts on your own! go do: vim test.rb
<jheg>
why is it dumb?
<benzrf>
i see these fancy services on the internet that say 'ONLY 500000 DOLLARS, WE WILL TRAIN UR ENTIRE STAFF IN RUBY AT OUR INTERACTIVE SUMMER CAMP'
<shevy>
jheg assignment for today: write a class that shows you today's month
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<benzrf>
wweh
<jheg>
cool will check it out shevy
<benzrf>
jheg: all the resources you could ever need are on the internet
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<shevy>
but it must be a class jheg
<benzrf>
and all the helpful people you could ever need are right here and on stackoverflow
<benzrf>
:-)
<benzrf>
shevy: shut up
<jheg>
cool shevy
<atmosx>
real men don't do mistakes, hence they use 'cat > test.rb'
<shevy>
benzrf hey I am trying to give out assignments, it's a simple task
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<mikecmpbll>
book recommendations for beginners is my biggest pet hate.
<jheg>
benzrf I always hear that everything you need is at your fingertips online but
<mikecmpbll>
books on advanced topics and patterns are useful
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<mikecmpbll>
books on ruby syntax is a fucking joke. use the interwebs.
<benzrf>
shevy: you dont need a class for that
<shevy>
jheg right but you need to put that info into your brain, actively writing code and trying to make it run is the best way
<benzrf>
youre propagating misuse of OOP principles
<benzrf>
bad shevy
<benzrf>
jheg: reading a book and then writing some code is likemike
<shevy>
a class teaches him how to modularize his code
<benzrf>
trying to learn to fix a car by reading a book about how cars work, THEN touching a car
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<benzrf>
shevy: there are other ways tho
<baweaver>
baweaver == lemur
<shevy>
and subsequently reuse it in different projects, it will be the best month-showing class ever written eventually
<shevy>
then once that is done we will extend it
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<shevy>
and LAST STEP
<shevy>
turn it into a gem once it is useful
<baweaver>
There are a few harder books in that list that will be fun.
<baweaver>
Kestrels especially
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<benzrf>
shevy: ur doin it rong
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<shevy>
benzrf you can teach him haskell
<shevy>
jheg if you ever want to learn haskell, benzrf is your man
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<benzrf>
mehlah:
<benzrf>
*meh
<benzrf>
#haskell is the most helpful channel ive ever been in
<benzrf>
it's like
<benzrf>
the idea PL irc
<benzrf>
dw #ruby is no. 2 :^)
<benzrf>
*ideal not idea
<shevy>
lol
<shevy>
I am unsure if everyone understood what you tried to say there ^^^
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<shevy>
btw
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<shevy>
mehlah is valid in singaporean english
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<shevy>
they wrote in a heavy mixture of chinese-english
<shevy>
wa liao!
<mehlah>
o_O
<mehlah>
:)
<mordof>
shevy: also works in malaysian english
<mordof>
though i'm pretty sure they're near each other
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<benzrf>
jheg: the correct way to learn to program
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* mordof
wonders who got it from who
<benzrf>
1. read something practical on the topic
<benzrf>
2. while reading it, try out the code it has
<shevy>
mordof yeah!
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<benzrf>
2a. when it explains how the code works in it, try dicking around with it to see if you can figure out how to change it
<mordof>
shevy: my fiance says a lot of singaporeans are from malaysia/china area and that's where it originated from in singapore
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<benzrf>
3. all the while, keep an irc window open so u can ask questions
<mordof>
shevy: (she's chinese malaysian)
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<jheg>
nice one benzrf I'm on it!
<benzrf>
:^)
<benzrf>
jheg: one tip
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<benzrf>
jheg: they did a study a while back
<benzrf>
and the upshot is...
Slavox is now known as Slavox|AFK
<jheg>
nope
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<benzrf>
those who are most successful at programming
hfp is now known as hfp`offline
<jheg>
I'm 37 long time since I was at school
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<benzrf>
are the ones who tend to form consistent mental models about things
<jheg>
but I think I think the right way
<benzrf>
instead of remembering individual consequent cases
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<benzrf>
i.e. instead of thinking in terms of use cases, think in terms of why the use cases work
<baweaver>
Which is probably why aspies glide through programming.
<mordof>
benzrf: ah, nice :) that's how i handle things. never understood why a person would only try to program on conditional logic like that
<benzrf>
mordof: :)
<mordof>
if you understand how it works, you can answer "would it work in this case?" on your own, heh
<benzrf>
yea
<benzrf>
i find that its a pretty common phenomenon for beginners to see the 'foo' in 'foo = bar' and 'baz(bar)' as two different things
<benzrf>
oops i mean the bar
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<benzrf>
a case of insufficient generalization I:
<mordof>
orly
<benzrf>
actually
<mordof>
benzrf: i had no idea o.o
<benzrf>
its a pretty common phenomenon in general to try to think only within the context of what youre learning
<mordof>
benzrf: i'll need to watch out for that when i'm teaching people
<benzrf>
when you start out
<benzrf>
instead of treating it as a subset of everything
<benzrf>
i.e. newbs failing to exercise common sense in programming
<mordof>
heh, yeah..
<benzrf>
more specifically
<benzrf>
for example, ive been teaching my brother some codes
<benzrf>
and the number of times ive had to say 'no, how would you put it into steps IGNORE PROGRAMMING JUST THINK NORMALLY' is annoying
<benzrf>
that seems like a common pattern
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<benzrf>
ive observed this effect in myself, even
<mordof>
:/ hmm
<benzrf>
ive been taking drivers ed
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<benzrf>
first day, i was told to look behind mehlah
<benzrf>
*me
<mordof>
lol
<benzrf>
my instinct was obv. to look over right shoulder for better view
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* mordof
stares behind mehlah
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<benzrf>
but id previously been told to look over left shoulder for other reasons
<mehlah>
^^
<benzrf>
and my brain shut down and i looked over left
<mordof>
hm
<benzrf>
because i was trying to think within the context of 'this is how driving works', not 'this is how driving works AND ITS A SUBSET OF HOW REALITY WORKS'
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<mordof>
lol
<mordof>
yeah i suppose that makes sense
<shevy>
omg
<shevy>
if benzrf is ever driving a car, remind me to run away
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<baweaver>
you won't run fast enough
<mordof>
hahaha
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<mikecmpbll>
i don't constrain myself to reality
<mordof>
benzrf: left shoulder = left blind spot. everything else = right shoulder
<mordof>
usually
<mikecmpbll>
benzrf: not in uk
<mikecmpbll>
;)
<mordof>
oh right that
<mikecmpbll>
mordof*
* mordof
is canadian
<baweaver>
5 points per hit, double points for bikes
<mordof>
maaan if i have to drive over seas it's gonna mess me up somethin awful
<shevy>
damn bear hugger
<baweaver>
halo combos are applicable.
<benzrf>
mordof: you hoser
<mordof>
shevy: o.o we stay away from those...
<mordof>
lol what
<mikecmpbll>
i drove in france once and went the wrong way around a roundabout
<benzrf>
in ruby we count on things to have the methods we wwant
<benzrf>
*want
<mikecmpbll>
IF IT QUACKS
<apeiros>
mus1cb0x: a good way is not to
<benzrf>
if they dont, it's the caller's fault
<benzrf>
just assume it's fine
<mordof>
rofl what
<shevy>
mus1cb0x begin/rescue/end is the way, if you need to raise an exception, you can use raise
<mordof>
just assume it's fine?
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<mus1cb0x>
people build commercial/enterprise software based on assuming a var's value is of the expected type?
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<mordof>
i'm so confused right now
<jheg>
ha - mikecmpbll: that and putting my hand in the door to try and change gear
<apeiros>
mordof: yeah. works surprisingly well.
<apeiros>
mus1cb0x: also: tests
<mus1cb0x>
until it doesn't?
<jheg>
and indicating left and wondering why the wipers have started
<mikecmpbll>
:D
<benzrf>
mus1cb0x: it never doesnt
<benzrf>
mus1cb0x: what's a case where it wouldnt?
<shevy>
mus1cb0x no but you can query stuff for its type. i = i.join(', ') if object.is_a? Array
<shevy>
erm
<benzrf>
shevy: no
<apeiros>
mus1cb0x: your test will raise an exception, just like not testing
<shevy>
yeah
<apeiros>
or rather, your assertion
<apeiros>
result is the same
<benzrf>
mus1cb0x: you should only ever have to type check if ur method takes more than one typ
<mus1cb0x>
okie
<benzrf>
e
<benzrf>
and those types dont respond to the same methods
<jhass>
mus1cb0x: if you have a sane and small method, the caller passing in the wrong object blows up surprisingly fast
<mikecmpbll>
exactly what benzrf said.
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<benzrf>
mus1cb0x: like if it takes either a string or an array, and you're treating it as a string, then you need to check if its an array so that you can join it first
<benzrf>
mus1cb0x: otherwise, call the methods you want to, and assume the caller will give you something with those methods
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<benzrf>
mus1cb0x: and then when you call it, do that :)
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<benzrf>
mus1cb0x: if your method only uses the each method, there is no need to check if its an array
<benzrf>
and if you do that, youre limiting its usage!
<mus1cb0x>
ok, thank you
<benzrf>
what if you later want to pass in an enumerator?
<mus1cb0x>
:)
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<shevy>
benzrf what if you later want to pass in any object?
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<benzrf>
shevy: then ur doin it rong
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<mus1cb0x>
are there any recent graphs/surveys/web sites discussing the most popular web/api app frameworks to use with ruby?
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<mus1cb0x>
i know rails is the most well known, but i wouldn't want to assume it's still the dominant one, and i'd like to check out the next several leading contenders
<banister>
mus1cb0x easy answer, rails and sinatra
<jhass>
mus1cb0x: don't use the most popular tool, use the best fitting one for your specific usecase
<mus1cb0x>
ok that's what i thought
<mus1cb0x>
i didn't say i would pick based on popularity jhass
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<mus1cb0x>
that is 1 factor i consider
<banister>
mus1cb0x SOA systems typically use sinatra. At least at work we use sinatra heavily
<mordof>
=== "Used to test equality within a when clause of a case statement" <-- i don't really understand this. I'm used to === being a non-type casting compare, but does ruby do that by default with == ? so when would === be utilized?
<atmosx>
banister: what are SOA systems?
<banister>
mordof .equal? is the ruby version of === in js
<benzrf>
mordof: it's a sort of 'matching' operator
<benzrf>
banister: ur wrong
<benzrf>
mordof: in ruby, .equal? is object identity
<benzrf>
as in, is it the same exact object
<benzrf>
so
<benzrf>
a = b
<benzrf>
a.equal? b
<benzrf>
mordof: === is used for matching things
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<banister>
benzrf isn't that what i just said?
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<benzrf>
banister: im not sure that's what === does in js
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<mordof>
=== isn't the same, no
<mordof>
in js
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<mordof>
that just means that javascript can't typecast to check if it matches
<near77>
hi
<near77>
does anyone know
<near77>
if there is some kind of gem or something in ruby to have the terminal divided for different ouputs?
<benzrf>
mordof: have you seen ruby's case statemtn?
<benzrf>
*statement
<near77>
like im doing puts and it shows in the first 60% of the screen, but when a new object is created it appears in the right 40%
<benzrf>
basically, it works like:
<benzrf>
case foo
<benzrf>
when this
<benzrf>
whatever
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<benzrf>
when that
<benzrf>
something else
<benzrf>
end
<benzrf>
mordof: ok
<benzrf>
mordof: it doesnt have fallthru btw so you don't need to break =)
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<benzrf>
mordof: followin
<benzrf>
?
<mus1cb0x>
banister: do many use sinatra for web apps? or more for api-driven services?
<mordof>
benzrf: hold on, fiancee held on to my attention :/ lol
<benzrf>
mordof: kk
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<mordof>
benzrf: right - i saw ruby's case. and that's unfortunate that it doesn't have fallthrough - is there a different way to write that?
<banister>
mus1cb0x if you're using a js MVC framework at the front then sinatra is often used to spit out the json
<mordof>
benzrf: like when this, that ?
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<mus1cb0x>
nah, no js
<benzrf>
mordof: ignore commas in whens for now
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<mordof>
benzrf: lol, alright
<benzrf>
mordof: basically
<benzrf>
ruby DOESN'T use == to check when clauses
<benzrf>
it uses ===
<benzrf>
i.e.
<benzrf>
foo === this
<benzrf>
foo === that
<benzrf>
no wait
<benzrf>
when_condition_1 === switching_thing
<benzrf>
when_condition_2 === switching_thing
<benzrf>
mordof: ok?
<mordof>
alright...
<benzrf>
the reason is so that you can do things like this:
<benzrf>
case 3
<benzrf>
when (1..10)
<benzrf>
something
<benzrf>
when (10..20)
<benzrf>
something else
<benzrf>
end
<benzrf>
with == that would fail
<benzrf>
but === is defined on ranges to check inclusion
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* mordof
watches the plane overhead
<benzrf>
mordof: :(
<mordof>
benzrf: lol, sorry - that's way above me right now xD
<mordof>
i tried to absorb it
<benzrf>
kk
<mordof>
but i have no idea about that last part
<benzrf>
ah, do u not know about procs?
<mordof>
i get the idea though, and the simpler examples make sense
<mordof>
not at all
<benzrf>
alright
* mordof
started learning the basics of ruby yesterday
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<benzrf>
oh.
<benzrf>
haha
<mordof>
:p
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<mordof>
i have other programming knowledge, but i have no idea what to relate procs to yet
<mordof>
so i don't know the concept/functionality
<benzrf>
kk
<shevy>
benzrf can you show a working example with case + proc
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<benzrf>
procs are basically function objects
<benzrf>
shevy: ok
<benzrf>
case "foo"
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<benzrf>
when proc {|s| s.length > 2}
<weirdpercent>
why does my CLI app create subdir json and file json/synqc.json but Aruba/Cucumber gives error: No such file or directory @ rb_sysopen - json/synqc.json
<benzrf>
mordof: in javascript, functions are just vars right?
<benzrf>
mordof: and then u put () after a function value to call it
<mordof>
benzrf: well... i suppose, basically yes
<benzrf>
kk
<benzrf>
in ruby, if i say 'def foo', then saying just 'foo' IS a call
<mordof>
because you can write the function name in somewhere and pass the function as a reference instead of calling it that way
<benzrf>
the () are optional
<benzrf>
foo.bar, likewise, is always calling bar
<benzrf>
not getting a value that you then call with ()\
<benzrf>
* just ()
<benzrf>
mordof: follow?
<mordof>
oh ok - yeah i saw that and wasn't sure because the tutorial wasn't really explaining
* mordof
nods
<benzrf>
kk
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<benzrf>
mordof: in ruby, an actual value that you can call is a Proc
<mordof>
so is foo.bar.to_proc getting the function itself?
<benzrf>
no
<mordof>
lol, ok carry on
<benzrf>
that would be calling to_proc on the result of bar
<mordof>
ah
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<mordof>
that makes more sense
<benzrf>
() after something is only part of the method call syntax
<benzrf>
if i want to call an object, i use .call
<benzrf>
i.e.
<benzrf>
some_proc.call
<benzrf>
some_proc.call(1, 2, 3)
<benzrf>
the 'proc' method will turn the block i give it into a proc
<benzrf>
mordof: you know how sometimes you use a string as a piece of text, and sometimes as a name
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<benzrf>
when i mean 'as a name', i mean that the actual text in the string doesnt matter
<benzrf>
just the thing youre using it as a name for
<mordof>
benzrf: example - a key for an object (js) ?
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<benzrf>
yea
* mordof
nods
<mordof>
that's a symbol?
<benzrf>
in ruby, there's both strings and symbols
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<benzrf>
you can use a string for both cases, but you'll usually want to use a symbol for things where the actual text doesnt matter
<benzrf>
:this_is_a_symbol
<mordof>
ah, alright
<shevy>
:ur_mom_is_a_symbol
<mordof>
lol
<benzrf>
=[
<shevy>
btw mordof
<shevy>
:"this also works"
<crome>
shevy: you just added a symbol to the symbol cache
<benzrf>
but if youre doing that something is probably wrong
<crome>
you are inefficient ;<
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<mordof>
benzrf: hmm.. the :symbol.to_proc example could work fairly well in a hash scenario where the hash is storing blocks, and you're using it like an instruction stack
<shevy>
mordof what is this: :"this also works"
<benzrf>
mordof: you mean procs :p
<benzrf>
mordof: a 'block' means the syntax that goes after a method call
<benzrf>
a 'proc' is an actual value that contains a function
<benzrf>
anyway foo.bar(&:baz) is a fairly common trick for passing a block that calls baz
<benzrf>
yeah :P
<mordof>
was trying to figure out the use case, heh. that helped iron it out
<mordof>
.map &:reverse does't work?
<benzrf>
it does
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<mordof>
benzrf: what made you decide to put the parenthesis in there?
<benzrf>
clarity that it's a regular argument
<benzrf>
for a while i thought that the &foo had to go outside the parens
<benzrf>
like a block
<mordof>
ohh blocks outside the parens... blocks are the function contents... ooohhhhh
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<mordof>
light bulb
<benzrf>
:-)
<benzrf>
proc is just a method that returns an object from the block you gave it
<benzrf>
there's also the lambda method
<benzrf>
procs made by lambda are different in a few ways
<benzrf>
but im not going to talk about that because youre probably already saturated
<mordof>
mostly - currently digesting
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<mordof>
once i get it sorted out and established as general understanding i'll be good to absorb more
<benzrf>
:-)
<mordof>
i was almost losing it, and then the light bulb moment made a lot of it sink in and make sense
<mordof>
so that's beneficial
<benzrf>
=D
<benzrf>
yeah, putting an & before an argument makes the receiving method treat the thing after the & as though it were the special syntactic block
<mordof>
interesting
<mordof>
and you said it automatically calls .to_proc on it to do so
<mordof>
so if it's something that doesn't transform into a proper block that the method is expecting, you could end up with either errors, or whacky results?
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<apeiros>
cute… IP address in tv show: 275.283.493.377 (or somesuch)
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<benzrf>
most of the languages i know that arent on the list i just mentoined were leaves hanging off of python
* mikecmpbll
bows.
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<RubyPanther>
I wrote Perl for 6 years or something, it is very expressive
<mordof>
mikecmpbll: lol :)
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<horrorvacui>
I did a lot of the fp languages in college but I don't count them since I thought at the time they weren't used in the industry so they weren't useful
<benzrf>
>:o
<RubyPanther>
If it wasn't for the problems with being able to read my own code later, Perl would be a pleasure to use.
<horrorvacui>
I've never touched perl once...
<horrorvacui>
I don't even think I've looked at it to know what ruby borrowed
<benzrf>
perl is nutso
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<RubyPanther>
With Ruby I can not only read my own code, sometimes I can even read other people's code. And it is still expressive.
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<alpha123>
RubyPanther: lol. I'm totally using that quote ;)
<horrorvacui>
I also spent a lot of time with Lua due to garry's mod, love2d, and other Lua scripted stuff
<horrorvacui>
I'm not a fan though
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<RubyPanther>
I used to write giant clever Schwartzian transforms for stuff that are simple blocks in Ruby
<mordof>
never really got into Lua
<alpha123>
Lua seems pretty cool, I haven't used it much but it would be one of my favorite languages, I think. Can you do web development in it?
<horrorvacui>
The only thing I like about Lua is you can grok it all in days.
<RubyPanther>
my favorite thing about Lua is mRuby
<mordof>
alpha123: it's not natively supported in the browser if that's what you're asking. there's probably some crazy package to make it possible though :p
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<alpha123>
mordof: I mean for backend stuff (I'm primarily a frontend person but I do backend sometimes (I work at a very small company))
<mordof>
can't help but laugh a bit every time i see that gif...
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<benlieb>
I'm writing a quick script in ruby. Can I have top-level ruby code that is "available" in a required file?
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<benlieb>
something simple like name = "bob" that will then allow the name variable to be available in the file that required it?
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<benlieb>
or does it have to be a class?
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<banister>
benlieb just use a global variable
<banister>
benlieb $my_var = 10
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<wallerdev>
or make it a constant
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<benlieb>
banister: I define and access with $ ?
<benlieb>
lemme try
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<horrorvacui>
ewww global variables...
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<horrorvacui>
:P
<benlieb>
horrorvacui: it's not real software, just a quick script :)
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<benlieb>
but it worked like a charm :)
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<reactormonk>
how would you take 20% of an array?
<benlieb>
Besides, if they were NEVER useful, they wouldn't exist. Or something.
<reactormonk>
or a hash, in this case
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<benlieb>
reactormonk: 20% of the items or 20% of the content?
<reactormonk>
benlieb, items
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<wallerdev>
just dividfe the length by 5
<wallerdev>
and take that many haha
<horrorvacui>
benlieb: parasites aren't very useful, they exist :P
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<benlieb>
horrorvacui: for one, that sounds like a very anthropocentric stance. for another, parasites are extremely useful, even to humans. for another nother, it doesn't seem useful to compare man-made to evolution-made entities in this way
<benlieb>
see yas
<benlieb>
tnx all
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<near77>
hi
<reactormonk>
wallerdev, ok, lemme correct: split it into two parts, one 20% and the rest
<near77>
anyone used ncurses?
<wallerdev>
partition
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<horrorvacui>
benlieb: what humans can't be parasites too?
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<wallerdev>
or just get the indices and take each part
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<wallerdev>
ary[0, howeverMany] and ary[howeverMany, -1]
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<wallerdev>
er
<wallerdev>
..-1
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<horrorvacui>
benlieb: also note I didn't say global variables were always bad or parasites were never useful. You maybe assuming the worse of me, I only ment to joke with you not piss you off.
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<shevy>
I am sure people with malaria are appreciative of statements that conclude that Plasmodium falciparum is a damn useful thing to have.
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<allanparsons>
quick question... i'm using ruby + rvm from supervisor and i keep getting this error: RVM is not a function, selecting rubies with 'rvm use ...' will not work.