<benlieb>
benzrf: why is it when people explicitly say they don't want to recreate the wheel does someone always say, just recreate the wheel it's not hard?
<havenwood>
mozzarella: chruby
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<havenwood>
mozzarella: or rvm if you want to read nothing and have some magic
<benlieb>
I know it's not hard.
<benlieb>
that wasn't the question
<benzrf>
benlieb: but why dont u want to recreate the wheel
<combusean>
actually, rewriting it and making it useful
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<shevy>
sounds boring
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<mozzarella>
so I need ruby-install AND chruby?
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<havenwood>
mozzarella: yeah, that's what i'd recommend. you can build Ruby yourself with chruby or even use ruby-build or rvm but i like ruby-install.
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<havenwood>
mozzarella: ruby-install makes it easy and uses your system package manager for dependencies, which is nice
<havenwood>
mozzarella: ruby-install to install rubies and chruby to switch between them
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<havenwood>
mozzarella: a lot of folk here use chruby or there's always #chruby if you have any issues
<shevy>
hmm is it possible to iterate over an array, and remove elements from that array based on certain conditions?
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<havenwood>
shevy: yes
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<benzrf>
shevy: duh
<havenwood>
shevy: #delete_if or #reject!
<benzrf>
it's called reject!
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<benzrf>
:-)
<shevy>
hmm
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<havenwood>
shevy: i usually prefer #delete_if because i don't want a `nil` if no changes were made
<havenwood>
shevy: but choose the behavior you prefer!
<havenwood>
sometimes it's handy
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<mozzarella>
but
<mozzarella>
do you need a rails for 2.0 and one for 2.1
<mozzarella>
or can it reuse the same gem
<mordof>
shevy: yeah i'm on windows
<mordof>
benzrf: no
<shevy>
mordof aha
<havenwood>
mozzarella: install for both
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<mordof>
benzrf: i decided that i wasn't going to let myself get caught up in the rabbit hole just because other people didn't like windows
<shevy>
mordof I think you can use readline on windows too
<mordof>
shevy: ruby has been working just fine for me on windows
<shevy>
yeah, ruby is that good
<mozzarella>
havenwood: when I download a new ruby version, how do I keep the same gems?
<shevy>
you can even use ruby-gnome on windows
<havenwood>
mozzarella: if the new Ruby version shares the same AMI
<mozzarella>
havenwood: AMI?
<havenwood>
mozzarella: so 2.1.1 will use 2.1.0's gems but not 2.0.0's
<mozzarella>
but how do I transfer the gems
<shevy>
mozzarella all gems are stored in cache/
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<shevy>
simply copy them to somewhere
<mordof>
shevy: my first project - mainly due to different tasks that i'll need to understand for my job, is an html parser
<shevy>
wow
<shevy>
in all my years of ruby, I never wanted to write a html parser
<mordof>
heh
<shevy>
and you take that as your first project
<shevy>
can't you start with something SIMPLE :(
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<mordof>
nope
<arubin>
mozzarella: Have you written other parsers?
* mordof
has been programming for quite a while
<arubin>
Err, mordof.
<havenwood>
mozzarella: they can be copied, but you'll need to: gem pristine --all
<mordof>
arubin: yeah. several, in other languages also
<shevy>
mozzarella your nick makes me hungry
<mordof>
i've written simple programming languages as well
<mozzarella>
shevy: yeah, me too…
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<havenwood>
mozzarella: i'd just reinstall em
<shevy>
lol
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<mozzarella>
havenwood: OK
<mordof>
arubin, shevy: once you understand the concept, it's not terribly difficult to do
<mordof>
just time consuming and making sure your logic is correct
<arubin>
mordof: If you were trying to parse a sane language, sure.
<arubin>
HTML parsers with years of effort still have many problems.
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<mordof>
well..
<mordof>
not really
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<mordof>
there's a difference between HTML parsers, and those that act on them to render / do other things
<arubin>
mordof: Typically one wishes to parse anything that a browser will handle.
<arubin>
Which is far more than valid HTML.
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<shevy>
hey
<shevy>
he does not aim for perfection
<mordof>
arubin: that's not my intent, nor my end use-case requirement
<mordof>
following the HTML spec is fine
<mordof>
and i'm not allowing for malformed HTML either
<benzrf>
mordof you disgust meinside
<benzrf>
*me
<mordof>
benzrf: goosd
<mordof>
good*
<mordof>
benzrf: after you decided whether to help someone or not based on OS, i decided that it wasn't really of concern to me
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<benzrf>
i still help people on windows
<benzrf>
i was only joking ;-;
<benzrf>
[but windows still sucks]
<arubin>
He "helps" by telling them about monads.
<benzrf>
:^)
<mordof>
benzrf: well it was actually rather bothersome to me, after how friendly you were being and whatnot
<benzrf>
;-;
<mordof>
had to decide that your help wasn't necessary anymore and i would just do it myself
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<mordof>
wasn't reallty necessary to begin with - but it was helpful either way
<shevy>
benzrf
<shevy>
he does not need you anymore
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<benzrf>
nooo
<benzrf>
T_T
<benzrf>
i have become that which i fight
* benzrf
monologues melodramatically
<shevy>
a girl
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<shevy>
wait
<shevy>
a hipster!
<benzrf>
i was already a hipster
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<mordof>
lol
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<benzrf>
how can i fight the evils of windows without alienating those i seek to save
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<RubyPanther>
If you don't get hung up over trivial nonsense like "users," then you can easily create the Perfect Language.
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<benzrf>
hehehe
<shevy>
benzrf by acknowledging that ruby rocks no matter the underlying crap it runs on
<RubyPanther>
benzrf: I battle windows by only choosing cross-platform tools. Then platform-lock-addicts using windows can marvel that my tools run on their computer, even though I created them on linux. "Z0mg, you're not platform locked at all? What about word files?"
<shevy>
imagine if ruby would have a smalltalk-like VM in addition
<shevy>
then you could totally abstract the underlying OS away
<shevy>
RubyPanther is ruby the Perfect Language?
<RubyPanther>
They say "SQL Server" I say "ActiveRecord"
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<mordof>
benzrf: well - first and formost.. i would check whether the person even *has* the capability to switch. I use windows-specific software that there aren't really alternatives to for linux.
<RubyPanther>
Ruby is darn close to perfect.
<RubyPanther>
Close enough for me!
<mordof>
benzrf: i can't switch easily without a lot of trouble. and for people that don't have much extra time, that's not an option
<benzrf>
>tfw
<benzrf>
curse u windows-targeting software companies
<Hanmac>
hm dont know, depends on if you allways want non-matching or not
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<pallavi>
name.exclude? asdf.maps.com , I want it to retrun false
<pallavi>
and name being name = [ "*.maps.com" ]
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<Hanmac>
pallavi: exclude is not a method from Array, and defining like that might be a bad idea ... use a Holder class for that
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<pallavi>
Hanmac: Will try :)
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<Firebox>
put ?T <—— what mean?
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<JensOfSweden>
Could anyone help a pretty much ruby noob with something? =)
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<seich>
I can try, I am kind of noobie myself though.
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<Firebox>
?T <— i dont know it.
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<Mon_Ouie>
?T is a syntax for a 'character literal'
<JensOfSweden>
Ok, ill try to explain. I read in a csv file into a hash, its a unix passwd file. But i dont want to read in the lines that contain /bin/false into the has just skip them.
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<artmann_>
lol, was playing around with imap and tried to select all messages from a mailbox but was like "why the heck is it not returning any emails"
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<artmann_>
mailbox was empty =S
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<Firebox>
what is ‘#{name}’ <——— nameless hash?
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<tobiasvl>
Firebox: no, that's just string interpolation
<tobiasvl>
it inserts the string value of the variable name into a string
<tobiasvl>
>> name = "Firebox"; puts "Hello, #{name}"
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<popl>
it'd take less time to type it
<popl>
wow
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<flughafen>
is there an equivilant to ipython for ruby?
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<Nowaker>
what is ipython?
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<crome>
irb
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<flughafen>
like irb, but with much better completion, it's an interactive shell for python
<flughafen>
but ipython is a lot better than python
<crome>
you can use pry with irb
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<flughafen>
thanks crome
<crome>
but I dont think there is something that does all those things
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<flughafen>
mostly i just want code completion
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<crome>
you can use an editor, they usually come with code completion of some sort
<crome>
I dont use irb to develop stuff
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<flughafen>
crome: i only use ipython to test things, not for full development, but i only use vim as my dev environment anyway...
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<crome>
you can use tests for testing things
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<flughafen>
crome: i dont' mean like testing testing, just when I experiment with how I want to work something out
<crome>
I know what you mean, writing a test and putting a debugger there is still the best idea, imo
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<crome>
you dont have to require stuff all the time, for one
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<crome>
a lot easier to change
<crome>
etc
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<timgauthier>
shevy is a goblin
<timgauthier>
and now i have them colourful nicks
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<soulnafein>
Hello ther, what's the channel policy about advertising Ruby jobs? :)
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<apeiros>
lazyirc: which option parser to use for commands with subcommands (like `git subcommand --option`)?
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<apeiros>
soulnafein: same as with every other thing you write here: don't be a jerk. don't be annoying. happy job posting.
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<soulnafein>
apeiros: cool, i'll be nice and sweet then.
<soulnafein>
I work for carwow.co.uk we are young start-up based in London. We've recently received a £1.3M investment round so we want to grow the team a little bit. We are looking for Developer number 3. We do interesting things with Ruby, Ruby on Rails, Machine Learning. Send me a private message if you are interested. It's a full-time position.
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* apeiros
will ask his question in #ruby-lang too
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<tagrudev>
certainty, ping
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<timgauthier>
certainty tagrudev pong
<tagrudev>
:D
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<timgauthier>
or is it polo? i never know how these human communication interface protocols work
<apeiros>
(suggestion from #ruby-lang: thor)
<timgauthier>
?
<apeiros>
timgauthier: re my question
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<timgauthier>
ah ok :)
<timgauthier>
too many join parts for me to see your question :S
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<apeiros>
timgauthier: your backlog is too short. it's not even 30 lines!
<apeiros>
ok, maybe 40
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<timgauthier>
its in my backlog i'm sure (my backlock is all of everything since I logged in)
<timgauthier>
i just... hate scrolling through all of the join/parts, and i wish i knew how to hide them, I just bought my irc client, but i'm now wondering if i feel like an idiot for spending that 5$
<apeiros>
timgauthier: I still wish I had a smart irc client, showing only relevant join/parts
<timgauthier>
eya
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<apeiros>
i.e. join: only people I've spoken to in the last N days (365 would be a fine default)
<timgauthier>
what makes them relevant, how do you know?
<timgauthier>
ah
<apeiros>
and part: only people I've spoken to, or who are among the last N people who have spoken in the channel (5 would be a fine default)
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<timgauthier>
or just move them all to the server tab, and then let me put alerts for people joining and leaving on a per user basis
<apeiros>
quit: same rule as part
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<timgauthier>
"Cinch is an IRC Bot Building Framework for quickly creating IRC bots in Ruby with minimal effort. It provides a simple interface based on plugins and rules. It's as easy as creating a plugin, defining a rule, and watching your profits flourish."
<timgauthier>
last sentance had me reaching to close the tab
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<jhass>
:P
<jhass>
it's quite nice though
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<apeiros>
jhass: pondered macruby or shoes4
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<Firebox>
what is proc?
<jhass>
does shoes4 look nice?
<jhass>
Firebox: an object that hods ruby code, similar to an anonymous function
<Firebox>
anonymous functon ok i see thanks
<jhass>
apeiros: as said I'm sorta addicted to gtk
<j416>
apeiros: I've been through limechat, colloquy and a couple more, now I use only weechat. Mostly because I can keep it running and connect from anywhere, no need for bouncers.
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<j416>
once configured, it's very nice.
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<Firebox>
proc hold the block of code?
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<Firebox>
right?
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<jhass>
yes
<jhass>
so you can pass around the proc object and call it
<timgauthier>
that seams neat, you can call the block when you need to "do that thing"
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<Firebox>
ok thanks jhass
<timgauthier>
so like a save function could be something that would be in a proc yea?
<timgauthier>
or would it need to be much much more simple?
<jhass>
timgauthier: not sure what you think about when you say "save function"
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<timgauthier>
well since i don't even know how to write one... the idea of having a block of code that does something like "save the changes from this web form as a draft " as a proc
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<timgauthier>
but now that i think more, its likely a way to make a piece of dry code
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<jhass>
the main usage for procs really is callbacks that you want to store
<timgauthier>
ok
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<jhass>
well, that and ruby provides language constructs to convert blocks into procs and vice versa
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<jhass>
you you can use that to capture a block to store it and/or pass it on
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<ij>
Is there a function for [] => nil, [a] => [a]
<apeiros>
yes. ary.empty? ? nil : ary
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<apeiros>
morale of the story: don't be clever. be explicit.
<certainty>
apeiros: alright :)
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<apeiros>
jhass: I find that such a fucked up idiom (#presence)
<jhass>
sure, it's implementation boils down to your code though
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<certainty>
also i'd probably prefer a function that didn't do this, but instead just returned either [a] or []. The type for both cases would be equal and could be handled nicer most of the times
<apeiros>
certainty: yupp.
<jhass>
sure, we know nothing about ij's usecase yet
<shevy>
I know everything
<apeiros>
that's true. but IME the "let's use nil just because" mentality is prevalent.
<workmad3>
jhass: since when has a lack of knowledge stopped us being opinionated? :)
<shevy>
ij say something
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<timgauthier>
shevy knows nothing
<shevy>
hey tim
<jhass>
shevy: what's 0^0?
* workmad3
misses his badge - 'Save time, assume I know everything'
<timgauthier>
its bad when you make guesses at font sizes and end up being correct on the golden ratio!
<workmad3>
jhass: 1 !
<shevy>
jhass looks like bra on boobs
<timgauthier>
wat!
<jhass>
workmad3: nope, undefined :P
<shevy>
ruby defines it as 0 though
<ij>
Oh, presense, right.
<shevy>
0^1 becomes 1
<workmad3>
jhass: it's validly defined as 1 in many cases ;)
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<Firebox>
i complete to read ‘learn to program’
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<shevy>
Firebox awesome. and when will you start writing ruby scripts?
<Firebox>
but i have no idea. so i want read another turorial.
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<Firebox>
introduce me another good turorial plz shevy
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<jhass>
Firebox: here's one. 1) develop an idea for a ruby script 2) start implementing this ruby script, search for what you need as you go 3) if you're stuck ask us 4) if you're done ask us for comments
<jhass>
do you like 4 step tutorials?
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<olivier_bK>
some one here as already play with shoes (GUI) ?
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<benzrf>
Firebox: i 2nd jhass
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<olivier_bK>
when i enter my login and my passwort i get in `exit_application': super: no superclass method `exit_application' for GLib:Module (NoMethodError)
<benzrf>
the best way to learn programming is a mixture of reading and doing but more of the latter
<Loryto2014>
apeiros i tried with this syntax, like documentation especified conn = OCI8.new('FAKE','pass', '//192.168.0.1:1521/fakedb')
<wallerdev>
i think hacker news runs on a dialect of lisp, not sure which one
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<Mon_Ouie>
It would be Ark if it runs on Paul Graham's lisp
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<Loryto2014>
and this is the error now: ORA-12162: TNS:net service name is incorrectly specified (OCIError)
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<benzrf>
isnt that Arc
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<wallerdev>
i think it's Bark: lisp for dogs
<Mon_Ouie>
Yes, it is. I realized that after googling it.
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<Mon_Ouie>
(And Hacker News is written in it)
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<certainty>
Arc has first class macros
<certainty>
that's a somewhat nice thing
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<timgauthier>
what the dev are you talking about?
<timgauthier>
i don't have a lisp(anymore)
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<certainty>
it's surprising how many rubyists seem to have some lisp background
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<dopie>
hey all
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<certainty>
pontiki: o/
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<shevy>
certainty I have php background
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<timgauthier>
shevy pfft
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<centrx>
PHP is a conglomeration and a purge on the race of mirth.
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<timgauthier>
hah so its dwarven?
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<shevy>
hmm
<shevy>
centrx used to state something else in the past when php was mentioned
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<dopie>
hey centrx
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<dopie>
centrx, i have to deal with wordpress clients
<timgauthier>
ew
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<timgauthier>
help them, get them off of wordpress into something more manageable and less broken, like perch or craft
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<dopie>
i know this is ruby but can you guys help me with rails since n one is alive in rubyonrails?
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<coderhut>
Hello experts, how can I redirect www.abc.com/careers to careers.abc.com in .htaccess file
<shevy>
many people here don't know rails dopie
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<shevy>
dopie if it is a ruby question you can try
<shevy>
coderhut sounds like an apache question :P
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<coderhut>
shevy ok thank you. I think i should join apache channel then
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<dopie>
ugh
<dopie>
i love crappy internet
<shevy>
in what language is the internet written
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<certainty>
shevy: i hate to admit it but i do too (i mean having a background in PHP)
<shevy>
certainty do you still use php?
<certainty>
nah
<certainty>
shevy: well occasionally i have to fix an old code base though
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<shevy>
AHA!
<certainty>
i try to avoid it though
<terrellt>
Nothing wrong with having a PHP history. It's a huge piece of the web, after all.
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<shevy>
timgauthier do you write in php still?
<timgauthier>
i havn't in a while but i will yes
<shevy>
:(
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<timgauthier>
until i don't have too
<shevy>
hehe
<certainty>
i also have a background in C/C++,Perl and Prolog but most of those I liked, unlike PHP
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<Karunamon>
definitely thinking i made the right choice with learning rails first
<Karunamon>
PHP is just painful to read for me, it might have fewer moving parts but.. damn
<centrx>
PHP has more moving parts
<certainty>
is has some moving warts
<Karunamon>
heh
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<wallerdev>
php is simple, just a bunch of functions you put into your html
<wallerdev>
rails is complicated in comparison
<certainty>
php is definitely not simple. It's complecting a lot of things
<certainty>
it's easy though
<timgauthier>
yea for everything i've used it for it was simple
<timgauthier>
and worked as a great template engine lol
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<Karunamon>
thing that kills me about rails is that every single tutorial is the same. here's how you set up scaffolding, ok here you go have fun
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<Karunamon>
what if i don't want to use scaffolding and learn how all the pieces fit together :<
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<Karunamon>
err, learn how all the pieces fit together instead of using scaffolding, that is
<terrellt>
What
<terrellt>
Wait
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<terrellt>
PHP can't be compared to Rails.
<terrellt>
It can be compared to Ruby if you'd like.
<timgauthier>
one tutorial i did tought it this way. do the scaffolding, then do it again manually each part
<shevy>
can we compare php with ruby-cgi
<wallerdev>
it is compared all the time terrellt
<timgauthier>
rails is like the PHP cake framework
<terrellt>
More like Symfony, really.
<terrellt>
CakePHP is miserable.
<timgauthier>
you CAN compare apples and oranges
<apeiros>
terrellt: I can compare apples and oranges all day long, thank you!
<Karunamon>
they're both tasty fruit
<yekta>
Where might I find a easy to read diff for 1.9.3-p448 => 1.9.3-p545 change log?
<Karunamon>
timgauthier: any idea where you found that one at?
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<timgauthier>
that was about 3 or 4 years ago
<timgauthier>
so no
<timgauthier>
i also don't remember much of it so it mustn't have been that good (jk)
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<Karunamon>
i'm practically a freakin' expert on initializing from scaffolding but not so much on how to do anything aside from that
<timgauthier>
i probably found it from the actual rails site
<timgauthier>
the scaffolding is really just a template and it isn't bad, but yeah
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<Karunamon>
i mean it's a kick ass feature
<certainty>
rails is like magic. The problem is that you realize too late that it's black magic. It's seducing to have any form of magic at first
<Karunamon>
but everybody who does tutorials seems to focus on the how instead of the why
<Karunamon>
hey black magic is fine as long as you've got the requisite animal sacrifices
<certainty>
they should focus on the why not
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<terrellt>
Scaffolding as a tutorial is a great introduction to why rails.
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<Karunamon>
I meant more how the pieces fit together than anything else
<Karunamon>
I suck at reading man pages, but give me example commands for a handful of use cases and I can probably deduce the rest
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<Karunamon>
(from man pages and google)
<terrellt>
Karunamon: The problem is finding how far down the rabbit hole you go. Rails internals are relatively complex - is it good enough for you to know how to use the regular generators? Or do you want to know load order? Do you want to dig into github.com/rails/rails?
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<certainty>
shevy: the real "problem" are people that actually enjoy coding in PHP
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<Karunamon>
^
<terrellt>
certainty: Why's that a problem?
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<wallerdev>
people like what i don't like
<wallerdev>
>:o
<terrellt>
Ha
<shevy>
certainty I know someone like that
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<certainty>
terrellt: because it means that php will continue to exist even if we put aside legacy apps that hopefully could get replaced
<Karunamon>
I /work/ with someone like that
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<wallerdev>
you act like everyone will just stop using php haha
<wallerdev>
it's going to be around foreverrrr
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<certainty>
i'm aware :)
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<terrellt>
certainty: What's wrong with PHP existing? It's improving, iterating, it's a viable alternative with proven use cases. I don't prefer it now, but there's nothing wrong with having a language with a low barrier to entry.
<wallerdev>
i still haven't seen anything that's as simple to do for a new person trying to make a website
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<Karunamon>
The problem is that PHP does enough nonsensical crap that you develop ways to get around and then take those bad habits elsewhere
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<shevy>
certainty that someone wrote this here which I found quite nice http://plexus-cms.org/ - it's just weird that he uses php still
<Karunamon>
inconsistent function names n such
<gjvc>
is it ok to ask rails / redmine questions here?
<certainty>
terrellt: i think that low barrier is a curse. It's fare too easy to get a something "running" with php without having any skills. That's bad, bad applications made of bad code are bad for many reasons. That's an economic, ecologic and somewhat social disaster
<terrellt>
Karunamon: There are a few things PHP do that are silly, I agree. However, good languages won't LET you do such a thing, so it's cleared up relatively quickly.
<wallerdev>
#rubyonrails will get you more answers but feel free to ask anyway haha
<shevy>
hehe
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<terrellt>
certainty: Only if they're core consumer facing applications with an audience. If some kid wants to learn to write websites and PHP takes a few minutes to put something on the screen, more power to him.
<certainty>
terrellt: of courset that's not only true for bad php code
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<Karunamon>
maybe it's just me but I find PHP really not-fun to read
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<certainty>
terrellt: what for? Is it to keep it interested? I'd argue that there are better (saner) languages to start
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<terrellt>
Karunamon: Lol, not much is easier to read than ruby. Decently written PHP is easier than C, for instance.
<timgauthier>
again, it goes back to
<timgauthier>
ruby and rails are not really a replacement for php
<Karunamon>
terrellt: Maybe most of the PHP i'm reading isn't decently written, then :P
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<timgauthier>
not a drop in at least, you need something that can be a drop in replacement as a web rendering language on servers.
<timgauthier>
once you have ruby at that point then we're good!
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<terrellt>
certainty: There are saner languages, sure, but they have a much higher barrier to entry.
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<certainty>
terrellt: i don't think that's true
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<wallerdev>
the reason php is easy to use is because you can just embed it in your html, if you try to add that feature to any other language it's not going to make that method of building websites better haha
<terrellt>
certainty: No? I was 11 when I wrote my first PHP program I think? It doesn't get much easier than uploading a file to a web server. Are you going to explain a heroku toolbelt to an 11 year old?
<certainty>
i have no numbers, but my own experience is telling otherwise
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<timgauthier>
wallerdev you can do that with ruby .erb files
<certainty>
terrellt: my daughter is 7 and wrote her first scheme program some time ago
<terrellt>
certainty: And deployed it to the web?
<timgauthier>
and i also fail to see why that is so bad from a HTML dev perspective
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<wallerdev>
it's not maintainable past the point of a couple pages haha
<certainty>
terrellt: of course not, since the typical application domain is not the web.
<timgauthier>
and yeah, honestly just deploying to an HTML server is a good thing, i fail to see why that isn't
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<certainty>
of scheme
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<timgauthier>
wallerdev neither is PHP but it is a start and it works
<timgauthier>
and now people who are starting to learn to program are learning proper ways to do things
<certainty>
terrellt: the hard thing about learning to program is not how to deploy it. In php you have to know about apache mod_php and http in general. In scheme it's just the repl. You eval code and it's instantly deployed and executed
<terrellt>
certainty: All I know is that PHP taught me why programming is fun and what the web can do for us. Without it I might not be here today, so while I recognize its inconsistencies and wouldn't recommend it for a new project, I can't discard it as a bad thing to exist.
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<terrellt>
certainty: You don't though! All you need to know is that if I upload a .php file it'll render.
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<certainty>
terrellt: that's ok, we all have our experiences. I don't blame anybody :)
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<certainty>
terrellt: try to tell a 7 year old what upload means
<terrellt>
That seems relatively easy nowadays.
<certainty>
it's still way more involved than hacking in some text at the repl
<terrellt>
I don't remember how old I was when I was FTPing HTML files, but not too much older than that.
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<terrellt>
Yes, the REPL is a huge strength for fiddling around, but there's a bigger dopamine hit seeing a webpage rendered than a terminal response.
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<timgauthier>
certainty upload is easy, you drop the file on the window and it uploads
<timgauthier>
via remote host folders in things like transmit on mac
<certainty>
terrellt: i think that's subjective. It make sense that you can't discard php, if it is this way for you.
<certainty>
terrellt: i always liked cli applications. I still do
<timgauthier>
try to explain git to a kid, they may understand it, but i still barely do, and forget me remebering how to use it a the command line
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<timgauthier>
lots of languages is a good thing, it means more ways to express
<terrellt>
In any case, as a software developer I agree - the cost/benefit ratio of ruby is better for a new web application.
<terrellt>
timgauthier: Man you know how kids are. Three months in they'll be like "DAD JUST CHERRY-PICK, GEEZ. Noob."
<timgauthier>
i know you programmery types are more about the streamline and efficency, but sometimes its good to be inefficent and different. You just have a hard time to quantify it
<certainty>
terrellt: heh, true
<benzrf>
timgauthier: i know how 2 git
<benzrf>
[mostly]
<benzrf>
:^)
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<mordof>
good morning everyone~
<terrellt>
Meh, git's one of those things you know just enough of to be useful. When you need something else you add that something else to your toolbelt.
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<certainty>
timgauthier: hmm, can you give an example?
<timgauthier>
terrellt no, i screw up my git repository and lose everything because i don't understand it
<terrellt>
git reflog!
<mordof>
my one master rule of git - never modify the history no matter how bad it ends up looking, lol
<timgauthier>
certainty example being that none of you started programming at the same language and got to this point that you are at in the same way, or that you all do things the same way
<timgauthier>
differences allow for creativity
<certainty>
timgauthier: then not using it is probably better, since you at least don't get the wrong sense of safety and be extra careful (possibly)
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<mrj>
how are you screwing up your git repos
<timgauthier>
you guys want to help people get into your favorite languages easier? write your shit in plain fucking simple english
<mordof>
timgauthier: that's way easier said than done
<timgauthier>
i can't even express the amount of times i read things that are supposed to be for new people, and it is all in jargon and speaking about things that i don't have a clue about.
<certainty>
timgauthier: ah right, now i see where you're coming from. Yes that's true, though I don't think someone explicitely choses the inefficient thing. It's just that he/she doesn't know better (yet)
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<timgauthier>
seriously can we make a ELI5 standard for documentation? you smart guys will parse through it really fast and get going quickly, us retards will actually get somewhere
<mrj>
that's like going car shopping and expecting the car salesman to explain to you how a car works
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<timgauthier>
certainty yes, but i've tried ruby before i tried PHP, couldn't grasp it, started doing PHP, now ruby is a bit more within my grasp
<mordof>
timgauthier: most people that learn a language to the extent they can write tutorials end up forgetting the small stuff that seems obvious to them, is the stuff that's generally the most confusing before it's understood
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<certainty>
timgauthier: yeah, it's been like this for me too. Took me 3 tries to get a grasp of haskell. I actually was a afraid of it :)
<timgauthier>
no mrj its like going to a cars salesman and asking what direct injection means and expecting him to actually tell you what it means withtout using a bunch of jargon and so you can understand what it is and why it may be good for you
<mordof>
unfrotunately that translates into difficult to understand tutorials / documentation :/
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<timgauthier>
that is NOT an unreasonable expectation, i've worked retail for nearly a decade
<mrj>
you don't go to a car salesman asking what direct injection means.
<mrj>
you go to a mechanic.
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<shevy>
I go to car salesmen
<shevy>
and ask them if they got a problem
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<timgauthier>
mrj maybe you do, but that is not a unreasonable expectation to ask a salesperson that sort of question when you are looking to purchase something
<mrj>
yeah it is.
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<mrj>
a car salesman isn't expected to have any mechanical automative training. they tell you if a car has navigation and leather seats.
<timgauthier>
maybe to you, but unfortunately you are wrong. I don't say things like that very often. I find a terminating statement is often very confrontational
<certainty>
if the car salesman doesn't understand me, i'll walk off to the cdr salesman :p
<certainty>
*scnr*
<mrj>
anyway, tangent, i'm going to ignore you now
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<timgauthier>
thats fine mrj
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<timgauthier>
i don't know why they went on that tangent, but alas. Simple english to explain complex things is a powerful and useful skill + gift
<certainty>
simple $your_language
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<certainty>
i'm having a hard time expressing things clearly, no doubt
<timgauthier>
its amazing having conversations with you guys, because i always learn things, even when someone asks a question way beyond what i understand. Because you guys are always willing to try and simplify things down to my level
<timgauthier>
stop using javascript
<mordof>
timgauthier: while that's true, it's useless to get annoyed about it when people don't have that skill yet - it's even more complex to acquire that effectively than to learn programming
<timgauthier>
i know
<timgauthier>
i'm not saying that i'm asking for something impossible, but I also know that it is possible.
<timgauthier>
it just seems impossible now
<mordof>
timgauthier: you're asking for something unrealistic / hard to come by
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<mordof>
to a certain degree
<mordof>
and expecting it to be more common
<mordof>
and then blaming others for it
<timgauthier>
no, i'm asking for something difficult to be more common
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<certainty>
i recently tried to explain the ssl heart-bleed vulnerability to my wife. I failed miserably and gave up
<timgauthier>
I thought that the XKCD for that was quite a good explination certainty
<timgauthier>
i used it for my fiancée and she got it
<timgauthier>
mordof i am blaming others for not trying
<certainty>
timgauthier: i didn't notice there was one
<mordof>
timgauthier: good luck with that attitude in life, honestly. that's rather selfish
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<timgauthier>
but isn't. I want others to get better
<certainty>
haha nice
<mordof>
timgauthier: and they will, when it's appropriate for them - not everyone gets there
<timgauthier>
i know
<mordof>
people have other things going on in their lives than strictly focusing on programming and speaking to others
<timgauthier>
yes
<mordof>
why don't you just appreciate the time that someone took to write an article for you, even though they're not amazing at it?
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<mordof>
instead of blaming them for "not trying hard enough"
<timgauthier>
oh i do
<timgauthier>
and i read them and try to grasp them
<mordof>
timgauthier: then just stop
<timgauthier>
but i get frustrated when i can't
<certainty>
that's your fault! :p
<timgauthier>
and i dream and wish that they could be better
<timgauthier>
but it isn't my fault entirely certainty
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<certainty>
i wasn't serious
<timgauthier>
ok good
<mordof>
timgauthier: hold on - you're also misunderstanding something here
<timgauthier>
okay mordof
<mordof>
well, i should rephrase - there's another factor involved
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<mordof>
that's not a fault of either of you
<certainty>
i generally agree. I do think that there is a lower barrier where things can't be explained (better,simpler) but I do think this limit is hardly ever reached in articles that explicitely target beginners
<mrj>
the guy is just venting and being argumentative, im not sure why you all are even continuing to converse with him
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<certainty>
for experts you don't have to go through all these hoops
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<mrj>
i'd love to see #ruby chat again
<mordof>
in that - every person comes from a different background, like you explained, a different set of understanding and life experiences. even if someone tries very hard, they may not present it in a way that works with your prior understanding (not related to programming)
<mordof>
mrj: that's true
<timgauthier>
yea certainty thats true. I also realize how annoyning it would be to read through all the super basic stuff as a higher level programmer.
<timgauthier>
annoying*
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<timgauthier>
unfortinatly mrj misunderstands my ranting, but thank you mordof i hadn't thought of that. What may be simple to me is complex to someone else.
<mordof>
timgauthier: with that said - these channels exist to clear things up. if you're having a hard time with a tutorial and you want a different perspective - bring the question in here
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<mordof>
and i'm always willing to try and rephrase in a way that works for you
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<mordof>
timgauthier: i teach people regularly. and there are times when (even if i'm using simple english) i have to rephrase 4 - 5 times to get it to match their understanding
<timgauthier>
yeah this place has been great in the past. I only jumped in to side on the side of lets have more diversity, and i've learned that i lack a bit of understanding in that.
<MrPopinjay>
Hey guys. How can I convert a negative int to binary? -1.to_s(2) doesn't work as it does with positive ints
<mordof>
isnt' a negative int in binary supposed to be the full length of the binary (like 32 bit) with the last bit being 1?
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<wallerdev>
depends
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<certainty>
depends
<MrPopinjay>
Hanmac: Some silly programming challenge. I don't understand the rules of the game though
<wallerdev>
in C or something the language keeps track of whether it can be negative depending on what type you use etc
<Mon_Ouie>
That's two's complement representation. That's how they're handled by hardware very often, but the minus sign is a valid notation for negative numbers
<wallerdev>
so the same bits could be positive or negative
<timgauthier>
okay so my brain wasn't imploading, i thought binary was strictly 1 or 0, therefore you can't have a negative binary but you can compile negative numbers in a binary form
<Mon_Ouie>
(That doesn't restrict you to a range of numbers and such)
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<mordof>
ah, ok
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<mordof>
timgauthier: mind if i send you a message?
<timgauthier>
ok
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<jnor>
Hola when I try to start thin I get an error log saying: >> Writing PID to tmp/pids/thin.0.pi, No adapter found for /tmp. Anyone know why this might be ?
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<havenwood>
jnor: I'm curious what version of Ruby you're on?
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<jnor>
havenwood: ruby 1.8.7 and thin 1.3.1
<havenwood>
jnor: does adding a `require 'rubygems'` to your `config.ru` fix it by chance? Also, use Ruby 1.9.3+! :P
<jxf>
I accidentally installed a bunch of gems into the wrong path. How do I uninstall those gems while excluding any system gems?
<havenwood>
jxf: delete the wrong path?
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<jxf>
havenwood: well, that path is the default path
<jxf>
havenwood: so I don't want to delete it because that will screw up other things
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<havenwood>
jxf: do you want to remove all non-system gems from taht path?
<jxf>
havenwood: correct
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<havenwood>
jxf: with an up-to-date RubyGems: gem uninstall --all
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<havenwood>
jxf: (uninstall all but system gems)
<jxf>
havenwood: that did it, thanks!
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<havenwood>
jxf: no prob, i pull requested the `--all` flag for uninstall because people kept asking here :)
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<havenwood>
RubyGems \o/
<jxf>
package managers that don't let you pin versions seem insane to me after Ruby (see: Golang, etc.)
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<jnor>
havenwood: okay ill start by trying to ipgrade, thanks
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<jnor>
upgrade*
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<havenwood>
jnor: i *think* it is a 1.8 issue, so that'd fix it but not sure!
<razrunelord>
anyone knows whats going on with rubygems?
<havenwood>
razrunelord: in what sense?
<claymore>
don't attr_reader (and related methods) break encapsulation (namely, other classes and software built around a particular interface)? Why use them?
<shevy>
mordof are you still motivated with your project
<mordof>
shevy: yes
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<mordof>
shevy: did you think i'd end up deciding it was too anoying for a first project? heh
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<shevy>
yeah
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<shevy>
it must be boring
<mordof>
shevy: i've been in development for a long time - i'm simply new to ruby, not the concepts involved in development
<mordof>
meh
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<mordof>
shevy: not to me really
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<mordof>
a good portion of programming isn't really terribly exciting when you take an honest look at it. there are times where you make something and it just blows people away
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<mordof>
but a lot of mundane tools can't be considered exciting, and i don't really care what i make as long as it's something with a purpose
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<mordof>
the reason i'm doing this as my first project is because it has relevance to what i'll be doing with my coming job
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<Karunamon>
best way to learn
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<mordof>
two questions: "#!/usr/bin/ruby -w" <-- is this necessary in windows? and what is the -w for?
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<Karunamon>
-w turns on warnings
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<benzrf>
mordof: thats a hashbang line
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<benzrf>
mordof: #! is a magic number that flags the exec system call (on unices) to pass the file name to the executable after the #!
<benzrf>
it lets you run it if it has the exec bit set
<benzrf>
none of this is relevant on windows afaik
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* mordof
nods
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<mordof>
apparently the -w is still utilized in windows, but the path is ignored
<benzrf>
well, no
<benzrf>
to be precise, ruby itself reads that line
<benzrf>
windows entirely ignores it
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<benzrf>
flags on a hashbang line aren't passed, but some programs (like perl & ruby) will manually parse flags out of tem
<benzrf>
*out of em
<benzrf>
so if u put '#!/usr/bin/ruby -w'
<mordof>
ah, right. poor wording on my part
<benzrf>
/usr/bin/ruby ur_file
<benzrf>
kk
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<mordof>
didn't intend for it to mean "windows magically knows what to do with this!" heh
<benzrf>
kk
* mordof
may be a windows user, but actually has a fairly solid grasp of how things do function in the CLI world as well
<mordof>
well, to a certain extent
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<mordof>
the hashbang is for that purpose correct? when calling from a terminal - that instructs the terminal what exectuable to utilize?
<Xeago>
mordof: yes
<mordof>
similar to bash scripts
<mordof>
ok
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<Xeago>
I woudn't call it "similar to bash scripts" tho
<Xeago>
it's just a she-bang
* mordof
nods
<benzrf>
shebang right
<benzrf>
derp
<mordof>
bash scripts utilize that also
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<benzrf>
mordof: to be precise, the kernel function that takes a file and executes is the part that sees a shebang line
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<mordof>
benzrf: good to know
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<benzrf>
mordof: when you type '/bin/ls' (or just 'ls'), the file gets sent to the exec call
<Xeago>
benzrf: I thought that was done in userspace?
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<benzrf>
the kernel scans it, sees that it's an ELF, then executes the opcodes in it
<benzrf>
Xeago: i don't think so...
<katlogic>
Depends, on OS, really.
<benzrf>
some shells might do itman
<benzrf>
*it
<katlogic>
Some UNIX variants implemented shebang on libc level.
<benzrf>
but im 95% sure that linux at least handles it at a kernel level
<katlogic>
(long ago)
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<benzrf>
well, exec handles it anyway
<benzrf>
and that's kernel-level innit
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<katlogic>
On linux, you're not limited only to shebang, you have the whole binfmt-misc :)
<benzrf>
which i use btw
<benzrf>
:-D
<benzrf>
mordof: anyway, when you tell the OS to execute a file, it looks at what kind of executable it is to figure out how to run it
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<benzrf>
a shebang line is one way of informing it how to do so
<mordof>
ah, ok
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<mordof>
windows just uses the nonsense extensions to do that instead
<benzrf>
not quite...
<benzrf>
i believe that's userspace-level
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<benzrf>
'opening' a file is not the same as 'running' it precisely
<benzrf>
at an OS level you cannot run most files
<benzrf>
your DE will load the appropriate program based on registry info
<benzrf>
if u double click it
<Xeago>
windows also has per file meta attributes that can specify an executable to run with this file as an argument
<benzrf>
im talking about actually executing a file
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* mordof
nods
<Xeago>
or some HostSvc
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<Xeago>
or whatever that dll is called nowadays
<katlogic>
Windows, with its registered class handlers in registry is massive clusterfuck indeed.
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<benzrf>
the aforementioned binfmt-misc is a kernel module that allows you to add special keys for how to run files
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<benzrf>
for example, i have it set so that if i exec a file whose name ends in .jar, it calls java -jar on it
<benzrf>
(which is probably bad practice)
<benzrf>
note that this absolutely isnt the same as double clicking a file in your dev1x
<benzrf>
*DE
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<mordof>
Xeago: did not know about that capability :)
<benzrf>
mordof: fun fact
<benzrf>
if u open the registry
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<benzrf>
go to the hive for config or w/e it's called
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<benzrf>
then youll find a shitload of keys for file exts
<benzrf>
if u look in those, youll see 'proper names'
<mordof>
yep
<benzrf>
which are also keys in the same hive
<mordof>
that's what i was referring to originally
<benzrf>
ah, :p
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<benzrf>
that's for windows explorer's benefit tho
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<mordof>
indeed
<benzrf>
explorer will consult that
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<benzrf>
not the kernel when told to execute the file
<mordof>
as can be seen when trying to open a file from the command line
<benzrf>
++
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<mordof>
simply dies out, lol
<benzrf>
you could if windows had binfmt-misc though :-O
<benzrf>
(doesnt make it a good idea)
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<benzrf>
hello Musashi1
<Musashi1>
hello benzrf
<benzrf>
im talkin in #ruby in a starbucks
<benzrf>
[insert oft-repeated joke]
<Musashi1>
:D
<Karunamon>
Are you on a macbook too?
<Musashi1>
and also writing your novel?
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<benzrf>
Karunamon: nope
<Karunamon>
Aww. You're only one away from the hipster trifecta :P
<benzrf>
im on a slightly beaten-up dell craptop
<benzrf>
:-)
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<benzrf>
Karunamon: i think that particular torch has been passed to node.js
<benzrf>
happily
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<Musashi1>
wait - hipsters don't patronize starbucks.. it's too corporate
<Karunamon>
No see, starbucks used to be cool, now it's not cool for that reason
<Karunamon>
so hipsters like it because it's not cool anymore
<benzrf>
real hipsters burn their tongues on their coffee cuz they drink it before its cool
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<bricker>
lol
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<Karunamon>
..long day, it took me way too long to get that
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<RubyPanther>
I thought starbucks used to be the only place to get decent coffee outside of the Pacific Northwest, and so it was popular, and then other places started serving real coffee, and people went back to local
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<RubyPanther>
now hipsters expect a place to have custom-roasted daily specials
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<myke>
yep
<RubyPanther>
Does you Ruby gem have custom-roasted daily specials?
<RubyPanther>
s/you/your/
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<myke>
i live in the sticks in montana...but there's a coffee roastery 2 miles from my house...and every grocery store has multiple local coffee options
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<Karunamon>
<-- Jelly. I live in the sticks in wyoming and the options for coffee amount to large chain #1 (starbucks) or slightly smaller chain #2 (dazbog)
<mordof>
and then there's me.. i don't drink coffee and have no idea what the culture behind it is about, lol
<myke>
i had to resort to starbucks' on easter because the other places were closed...otherwise i never go there
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<Karunamon>
they're pretty good in the morning.. they've got a breakfast sandwich there that blows mickey d's away
<Karunamon>
(though that isn't hard xD)
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<rindolf>
Hi all. How can I reduce a string in Ruby to a prefix string whose length is at most N characters (And do nothing if it's already shorter than that)?
<clov3r>
TTilus: not even that :p
<clov3r>
I understand how to pass HTML to nokogiri...
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<TTilus>
clov3r: so whats the problem
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<clov3r>
so I have an xpath selector: "//*[contains(@class,'Headline')]"
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<clov3r>
i need to run doc.xpath(selector)...
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<apeiros>
rindolf: str = str[0,n]
<rindolf>
apeiros: thanks, let me try.
<clov3r>
and get all nodes that match the first condition and it's siblings, UP until the next occurence of that selector
<clov3r>
i'm new to xpath too
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<TTilus>
so its not about nokogiri
<clov3r>
well
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<TTilus>
but about xpath
<clov3r>
if nokogiri provides a 'walker'
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<clov3r>
then my lack of xpath knowledge is irrelevant
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<rindolf>
They should be equivalent.
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* hoelzro
waves at rindolf
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<code-cat>
thanks csmrfx
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<rindolf>
hoelzro: hi.
<rindolf>
hoelzro: what's up?
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<olivier_bK>
when i enter my login and my passwort i get in `exit_application': super: no superclass method `exit_application' i dont understand why i get this error because i dont use the method super ??
<wallerdev>
creethy: why do you have two percents in your regex
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<creethy>
isn’t the percent sign a special one?
<creethy>
well, doesn’t work even if there’s only one percent sign...
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<creethy>
then it’s simply the whole input for match[1]
<wallerdev>
i would just replace everything with a % and more with nothing haha
<jnor>
wallerdev: same thing I'm afraid
<wallerdev>
jnor: :(
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<wallerdev>
i dont use thin so i cant give much more help haha
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<creethy>
wallerdev: hmm, i’m relatively new to ruby. i guess my approach is rather complicated (see updated gist). any advice on how to do it better?
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<wallerdev>
creethy: looks alright to me
<wallerdev>
if you want to do it shorter you could do like
<reactormonk>
how would you run gsub over the subsection of a string?
<wallerdev>
local_ip.sub(/%.*/, '')
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<olivier_bK>
some one here know fxruby ?
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<wallerdev>
reactormonk: you could add the condition to your regex or split the string up and run it then put it back together
<creethy>
wallerdev: thank you very much!! :)
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<wallerdev>
:)
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<reactormonk>
wallerdev, I considered #[] and #[]=
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<wallerdev>
well it really depends what your condition is to generate this subsection
<wallerdev>
if its just numbers its just like str[0, 10] + str[10, 40].gsub(//, '') + str[40, 60] or whatever
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<Solnse>
I remember I was able to use a string to pass into a method to instantiate a class name from that string... but using: @klass = Object.const_get('myClass'.capitalize) says it can't find MyClass - is there another way to do it in pure ruby?
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<bricker>
Solnse: you can sortof do that with Struct.new("MyClass")
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<havenwood>
Solnse: how about?: Object.const_set('myClass'.capitalize, Class.new)
<havenwood>
though #capitalize would #=> Myclass
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<Solnse>
yeah...
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<Solnse>
I figured it out, I was actually catching my own error message in a begin/rescue/end block, and my actual problem was not prepending self. on the method I was calling in that class. the original @klass = Object.const_get(@type.capitalize) (@type coming from initialize params) works.
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<Solnse>
design question: Im' putting together a call that will grow considerably, at last count I had 60+ method calls that were on average 25-35 lines of code each. would you split each class/method into it's own file and rejoin them using require 'files' lines in a single class file? or just put all the classes in a single file?
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<Solnse>
example: https://gist.github.com/Solnse/11387105 you can see the skeleton for starbucks and united calls.... as you can imagine as I've added other programs, the single file grew pretty big... is there a better way to split them up?
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