apeiros changed the topic of #ruby to: Ruby 2.1.1; 2.0.0-p451; 1.9.3-p545: http://ruby-lang.org || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com || this channel is logged at http://irclog.whitequark.org, other public logging is prohibited
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<s2013_> http://codekata.com/kata/kata02-karate-chop/ anyone ever attemped that
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<shevy> allanparsons I would compile from source into /usr prefix -> wget ftp://ftp.ruby-lang.org/pub/ruby/2.1/ruby-2.1.1.tar.bz2
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<allanparsons> well, then that defeats the purpose of an rvm, no?
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<shevy> depends - "make install" only copies into the target location. you can get the same behaviour if you compile different versions from source. I compile into /Programs/Ruby/PROGRAM_VERSION and symlink the current ruby in use as my main "pointer"
<shevy> though admittedly it is rare that I use 1.8.x or 1.9.x
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<shevy> been more useful when I was still on 1.8.x
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<terrellt> allanparsons: You're missing the rvm source file. System install or user install?
<allanparsons> user install
<allanparsons> it's there
<allanparsons> but supervisor starts as root
<allanparsons> and then the command runs as rvmuser
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<terrellt> So you need to switch to the rvm user and source /home/rvmuser/.rvm/scripts/rvm
<terrellt> If it starts running rvm commands as sudo in a user install you're gonna have a bad time.
<allanparsons> it doesnt run as sudo
<allanparsons> in my supervisor vonfig i have: user=rvmuser
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<terrellt> I've never used supervisor, but I'm sure you just need to source that file.
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<allanparsons> im sourcing it in ~/.bashrc.. [[ -s "$HOME/.rvm/scripts/rvm" ]] && source "$HOME/.rvm/scripts/rvm"
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<terrellt> allanparsons: Yeah, but -that's- not getting sourced.
<terrellt> Not in supervisor at least.
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<allanparsons> argh
<allanparsons> i'll add it to the command line
<allanparsons> or just source my ~/.bashrc file
<allanparsons> where that exists
<allanparsons> 1 sec
<allanparsons> lemme try
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<bmcorser> python dude here
<bmcorser> need some help debugging a gem
<allanparsons> @terrellt command=source /home/rvm/.bashrc && /home/rvm/.rvm/bin/rvm use .....
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<banister> bmcorser http://pryrepl.org
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<bmcorser> i have installed `debugger` gem which i hope will let me drop a debug statement in my target code
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<bmcorser> but since i don't know what happens when i `bundle install ..` ie where the code goes, i don't know where to put the statement
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<bmcorser> in python i would just add it in the source residing in my virtual env
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<bmcorser> thanks banister but i think my problems are a little more fundamental :)
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<bmcorser> i've never written a line of ruby
<banister> bmcorser you put the debug statement in your application code -- 'bundle install' installs library code
<terrellt> allanparsons: Work for ya?
<allanparsons> lolz
<allanparsons> no
<allanparsons> 2014-04-26 00:33:00,372 INFO spawnerr: can't find command 'source'
<terrellt> Heh
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<allanparsons> dubya tee efff
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<benzrf> bmcorser: in ruby, bundles are not like virtualenvs exactly
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<benzrf> you can use `bundle exec` to restrict ur gems to what's in the Gemfile
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<benzrf> but apart from that, bundle install installs globally by default
<benzrf> so bundle install will do nothing if u already have the gems
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<terrellt> Or if you point it to somewhere that has the gems.
<terrellt> bmcorser: bundle show gem-name
<terrellt> bmcorser: That's where your "code goes"
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<terrellt> Now that I've given you the gun proceed to fire viciously at your foot.
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<bmcorser> banister: ok
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<bmcorser> banister: so i guess the process for doing some interactive debugging would be checkout the gem source from github, put my debug statement in place, then run `bundle install`, then run the applicatin
<bmcorser> *application
<banister> bmcorser right
<banister> bmcorser sounds right :)
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<bmcorser> can i jimmy the debug statement about or will i have to `bundle install` every time i change the source?
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<bmcorser> does ruby use a JIT?
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<rkazak> jruby?
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<benzrf> bmcorser: depends on the impl
<benzrf> i dont think YARV does, it might
<benzrf> i think rubinius might?
<terrellt> JRuby/Rubinius do.
<bmcorser> i have "ruby 2.0.0p247 (2013-06-27 revision 41674) [x86_64-darwin13.0.0]"
<terrellt> YARV is just an interpreter.
<terrellt> bmcorser: So no
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<bmcorser> so i need to recompile
<bmcorser> ok
<benzrf> bmcorser: use ruby-install
<benzrf> and chruby
<terrellt> bmcorser: JRuby/Rubinius are alternate implementations of ruby and come with some quirks.
<benzrf> (y)\
<terrellt> Developing while on JRuby just sounds so miserable.
<bmcorser> yeah, i don't need anything special
<terrellt> Every irb, "come on JVM, I know you can do it."
<s2013> anyone wants to work on some algorithms with me?
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<bmcorser> i just want do some python-style interactive debugging :]
<terrellt> bmcorser: Look up pry and pry-stack-explorer
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<terrellt> Er, you need pry-byebug I guess? I usually install jazz_hands into Rails projects.
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<allanparsons> terrellt nope
<allanparsons> def didnt work
<bmcorser> ok pry looks groovy
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<terrellt> allanparsons: Sad.
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<bmcorser> i think ruby is angry at me
<bmcorser> /Users/ben/.rvm/rubies/ruby-2.0.0-p247/lib/ruby/site_ruby/2.0.0/rubygems/dependency.rb:298:in `to_specs': Could not find 'vagrant' (>= 0) among 70 total gem(s) (Gem::LoadError)
<allanparsons> even tried: command=bash -lc "source /home/rvm/.bashrc && /home/rvm/.rvm/bin/rvm use ....
<terrellt> After you source you should be able to just rvm use
<bmcorser> i only seem to be able to run from the dir i ran bundle install in
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<allanparsons> terrellt, yeah i dunno
<allanparsons> i cant be the only one having supervisord issues
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<bmcorser> ok this isn't going well
<bmcorser> banister: my ruby isn't happy
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<rkazak> bmcorser:why not try the latest?
<bmcorser> rkazak: i think i have a gem issue really
<bmcorser> see my above message
<bmcorser> trying to install vagrant from source with my debugger statement compiled into it
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<bmcorser> if i run `bundle install` from the source dir, it appears to install
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<bmcorser> when i run `bundle list` i see vagrant there
<bmcorser> but not when i run `gem list`
<bmcorser> is this normal behaviour
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<s2013> >> [1,2,3,4].index(4)
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<eval-in__> s2013 => 3 (https://eval.in/142168)
<s2013> >> [1,2,4,9,8].index(4)
<eval-in__> s2013 => 2 (https://eval.in/142169)
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<s2013> does ruby use linear search for aray index?
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<shevy> dunno
<shevy> how to find out s2013 ?
<s2013> im looking at the source code
<s2013> but im stupid
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<s2013> but to me it seems like thats what its doing?
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<wallerdev> s2013: how else would it do it?
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<s2013> magic?
<myke> well, C just calculates offsets directly so array lookup is O(1)
<myke> but C arrays are static homogenous types
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<wallerdev> but index returns the index of an item in an array
<wallerdev> so if you have the array [1, 2, 5, 4, 5]
<wallerdev> and do index(5)
<wallerdev> how can you find that in O(1)
<myke> oh i read it wrong
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<mordof> couldn't an array lookup be done in O(1) if you have another look-up structure pointing to the memory, with the key being the index?
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<mordof> then it would just retrieve the data in the memory according to the index...
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* mordof has never worked with anything that low-level before
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<benzrf> mordof: hm?
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<benzrf> explain wot u mean
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<mordof> benzrf: regarding the discussion earlier about "how would you find an array item in O(1)"
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<s2013> this is a stupid q but how do i modify an attribute in a class in pure ruby. so lets say i have a class called Test and i have a function called add and i add a score to it.. so when i do test.scores it will show me all the scores i added
<s2013> dont know if that makes sense
<mordof> are you looking for something where you just add an entry to an array?
<testcore> s2013: you can reference member vars w/ the @varname syntax, and @@varname for class-scoped members
<s2013> yeah mordof
<testcore> arr << var
<s2013> i just realized its so simple but i cant seem to figure it out
<s2013> i know how to add to an array
<s2013> one sec
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<testcore> you can push onto an array w/ the << operator
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<testcore> so array << variable will put variable at the end of the array
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<s2013> no i know about pushing and all that
<s2013> that will clear it up
<s2013> do i need an attr_accessor called :scores ?
<mordof> def initialize; @scores = Array.new; end; def add(score) @scores << score; end (clear out all of the semicolons.. just for ugly one lines and shouldn't be used, lol)
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<s2013> would test.scores point to @scores ?
<mordof> no
<mordof> well
<s2013> ok well thats what im trying to figure out
<mordof> def scores; @scores; end;
<mordof> then it would, lol
<s2013> so i need attr_accessor for that right?
<s2013> that would work
<s2013> atleast attr_reader
<mordof> i have no idea what that is, i'm new to ruby >.>
<RubyPanther> attr_accessor is preferred to def foo; @foo
<s2013> well im not writing to it directly
<s2013> so attr_reader might work
<s2013> let me try
<mordof> RubyPanther: good to know
<s2013> im not new to ruby but im having a brain fart
<mordof> lol, i should get more info before i go trying to help people
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<s2013> maybe cause im super tired
<testcore> s2013: just added a comment on the gist
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<s2013> ok thats what i thought. thanks
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<s2013> heh i saw him today at railsconf giving a talk about activerecord
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<s2013> was a pretty funny talk
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<crucify_me> hi nothing I can find explains how this works: 3.0.modulo(4.9) => 3
<blandflakes> crucify_me: 4.9 divides into 3 0 times, leaving a remainder of 3...
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<mordof> >> 3.0 % 4.9
<eval-in__> mordof => 3.0 (https://eval.in/142178)
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<mordof> >> 3.0.modulo(4.9)
<eval-in__> mordof => 3.0 (https://eval.in/142179)
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<mordof> it's very strange, yet interesting, that it finds the entire 3.0 as a number before doign modulo on it
<mordof> >> 3.9.modulo(4.9(
<eval-in__> mordof => /tmp/execpad-f7e0162768c7/source-f7e0162768c7:2: syntax error, unexpected '(', expecting ')' (https://eval.in/142180)
<mordof> >> 3.9.modulo(4.9)
<eval-in__> mordof => 3.9 (https://eval.in/142181)
<crucify_me> blandflakes: mordof one sec thanks
<arubin> RubyPanther: hah
<mordof> wouldn't ruby have to determine that the .9 is part of the number?
<arubin> This is funny.
<arubin> I knew that Tenderlove was a bit of a character.
<arubin> The part about how to become a committer is hilarious.
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<RubyPanther> >> (1..10).map{|i|i%3}
<eval-in__> RubyPanther => [1, 2, 0, 1, 2, 0, 1, 2, 0, 1] (https://eval.in/142184)
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<RubyPanther> >> loop_of_3 = []; (1..10).each{|i|loop_of_3[i%3] = i} ; loop_of_3
<eval-in__> RubyPanther => [9, 10, 8] (https://eval.in/142185)
<RubyPanther> Those are the two most common uses to understand of modulo
<crucify_me> mordof: could you elaborate?: it's very strange, yet interesting, that it finds the entire 3.0 as a number before doign modulo on it
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<RubyPanther> the latter is very useful in graphics, or with a bitmap that wraps around
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<RubyPanther> Ruby has no trouble parsing floats in the code :)
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<crucify_me> RubyPanther: mordof sorry I'm still working on it..
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<RubyPanther> >> 4.2e99.modulo(42)
<eval-in__> RubyPanther => 28.0 (https://eval.in/142186)
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<crucify_me> wtf
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<crucify_me> and thanks ! plenty to work on..
<crucify_me> RubyPanther: what is that 'e' notation?
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<RubyPanther> Ruby can parse numbers easily.
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<rkazak> standard exp notation.
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<RubyPanther> >> 0x7fffffff.modulo(42)
<eval-in__> RubyPanther => 1 (https://eval.in/142188)
<mordof> RubyPanther: does ruby check for a keyword first?
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<RubyPanther> >> 0b10000000.modulo(42)
<eval-in__> RubyPanther => 2 (https://eval.in/142190)
<mordof> and if it doesn't find one, starts data type matching? or which takes priority internally is what i'm curious about
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<mordof> wait, can methods start with a number in the name? that's the biggest thing
<RubyPanther> it runs it through a fairly standard parser first, before it is even worrying about things like types
<mordof> if it can't, that makes it easy
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<mordof> o.o;;;
<crucify_me> (1..10).map{|i|i%3} => [1,2,0,1,2,0,1,2,0] << much appreciated if you would run me through this RubyPanther, if you have time
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<mordof> crucify_me: modulous is the act of doing # / #, and retrieving the remainder
<mordof> 1 / 3 is 0 remainder 1
<RubyPanther> crucify_me: it takes the numbers one through 10, and does modulo 3 for each number, and builds a new array with those results, so it just counts in a loop
<mordof> 2 / 3 is 0 remainder 2
<mordof> 3 / 3 is 1 remainder 0
<RubyPanther> any time you want to repeat every n times, every other row a different color, groups of 42, whatever, you can use that
<crucify_me> so mordof so if there is no even division it just returns the numerator ? RubyPanther
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<RubyPanther> right, it is just the remainder
<RubyPanther> but that also makes it a loop
<mordof> crucify_me: the remainder - think long devision.
<mordof> 5 / 3 is 1 remainder 2
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<mordof> so 5 % 3 == 2
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<mordof> crucify_me: it's not "even division conditional" but division remainder. "what's left over" after you try and divide.
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<crucify_me> so is there rounding down going on sometimes with modulo? mordof RubyPanther
<mordof> no
<RubyPanther> >> (1..10).map{|i|i%2 == 0 ? 'even' : 'odd' }
<eval-in__> RubyPanther => ["odd", "even", "odd", "even", "odd", "even", "odd", "even", "odd", "even"] (https://eval.in/142194)
<mordof> 3.3 / 3 is 1 remainder 0.3
<RubyPanther> >> 3.3 % 3
<crucify_me> that's deep RubyPanther thanks very much both of you mordof
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<mordof> did it break? lol
<The_NetZ> is there any performance difference in any noticable amount between an executable with embedded ruby and just raw ruby?
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<RubyPanther> I guess the bot hates rounding errors even more than I do
<RubyPanther> >> 3.3 % 3
<eval-in__> RubyPanther => 0.2999999999999998 (https://eval.in/142195)
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<RubyPanther> >> require 'bigdecimal'; (BigDecimal.new('3.3') % 3).to_f
<eval-in__> RubyPanther => (https://eval.in/142196)
<mordof> oh geez.. heh
<mordof> >> 4.8 % 3
<eval-in__> mordof => 1.7999999999999998 (https://eval.in/142197)
<mordof> -.-
<RubyPanther> Well, in any case, BigDecimal is the way to do it if you really want 0.3 back :)
<mordof> yeah
<mordof> >> 10.6 % 6
<eval-in__> mordof => 4.6 (https://eval.in/142198)
<mordof> there
<mordof> bigger numbers xD
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<mordof> >> 4.8 - (((4.8 / 3) | 0) * 3)
<eval-in__> mordof => undefined method `|' for 1.5999999999999999:Float (NoMethodError) ... (https://eval.in/142199)
<mordof> hm
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<mordof> i guess the bitwise OR can't be used the same way as i do it with js, lol
<mordof> what's an easy way to trim the decimal? lol
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<mordof> >> 4.8 - 3
<eval-in__> mordof => 1.7999999999999998 (https://eval.in/142200)
<mordof> yeah - still wouldn't have worked anyway. figures
<The_NetZ> so... any takers?
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<mordof> The_NetZ: absolutely no clue. brand new to Ruby
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<mordof> The_NetZ: my first inclination (or hope) would be that it wouldn't have too much drop at all.. but that all depends on how the implementation is in comparison to the stand-alone ruby
<mordof> since i have no knowledge of that, i can't really give any credible response
* mordof wanders off
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<The_NetZ> I'm just hoping for about equal performance; windows users can't be bothered to install ruby, so I'm including a launcher exe with embedded ruby; if the performance is the same, I'll just have *nix package require ruby
<rkazak> trim - truncate
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<rkazak> round, ceil, floor ?
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<rkazak> how do I use that eval thingy?
<The_NetZ> >> puts 'like this'
<eval-in__> The_NetZ => like this ... (https://eval.in/142201)
<shevy> The_NetZ the amount of people able to answer a question like yours are like 0.05% here on #ruby ;)
<The_NetZ> rawr.
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<The_NetZ> just mah luck :P
<The_NetZ> so whatever happened to rubyscript2exe anyways?
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<crucify_me> sorry where is the error in 3.3 % 3 => 0.2999999999999998 RubyPanther
<rkazak> >>
<eval-in__> rkazak => nil (https://eval.in/142211)
<The_NetZ> rkazak: >> followed by a ruby expression.
<rkazak> >>3.4.truncate
<eval-in__> rkazak => 3 (https://eval.in/142212)
<rkazak> ta!
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<The_NetZ> rkazak: no problem; don't abuse it though. irb is nicer :P
<crucify_me> rkazak: are you referring to my query? ^^
<rkazak> yep.
<crucify_me> sorry I don't follow. rkazak
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<crucify_me> what do you mean followed by a ruby expression?
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<The_NetZ> crucify_me: "puts 'this is a ruby expression'
<The_NetZ> crucify_me: "puts 'this is a ruby expression'"
<rkazak> after the ‘>>’ a ruby one-liner I think.
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<The_NetZ> >> puts 'this is a ruby expression'
<eval-in__> The_NetZ => this is a ruby expression ... (https://eval.in/142221)
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<mordof> The_NetZ: lol, i'm a windows user
<The_NetZ> >> class Greeter; def hello_world; puts "Hello World!"; end; end; Greeter.hello_world
<eval-in__> The_NetZ => undefined method `hello_world' for Greeter:Class (NoMethodError) ... (https://eval.in/142224)
<The_NetZ> dammit
<mordof> "can't be bothered to install ruby" - you can just have your installer *also* install ruby
<rkazak> crucify_me: someone asked how to trim floats…
<mordof> rkazak: that was me, heh
<rkazak> opps...
<mordof> rkazak: i was re-implementing modulus or modulo or w/e it's called
<crucify_me> oh ok cool thanks
<rkazak> modulo
<crucify_me> peace out
<mordof> >> 4.8 - ((4.8 / 3).truncate * 3)
<rkazak> >>3.4.modulo(3)
<eval-in__> rkazak => 0.3999999999999999 (https://eval.in/142225)
<mordof> hmm
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<The_NetZ> divmod and take the first element of the array
<crucify_me> why does it do that?
<The_NetZ> 3.4.divmod(3)
<The_NetZ> >> 3.4.divmod(3)
<eval-in__> The_NetZ => [1, 0.3999999999999999] (https://eval.in/142227)
<The_NetZ> crucify_me: you do know what the modulo operation does, right?
<mordof> crucify_me: because of the way ruby holds numbers
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<crucify_me> The_NetZ: yeah pretty much
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<crucify_me> at least I do to the 16th decimal point
<The_NetZ> and really, superduper accuracy in floating point numbers (floats and doubles) is not all that perfect as computers think in base 2 not base 10
<mordof> generally when numbers are stored a certain way, float point accuracy ends up messing up really small, or really large numbers
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<crucify_me> The_NetZ: good call
* mordof nods
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<benzrf> hows it goin mordof
<mordof> benzrf: pretty good. just made a salad :3
<mordof> you?
<benzrf> nb playing CAH on the internet
<mordof> nice
<The_NetZ> crucify_me: modulo does division and then gives you the remainder; so 3.4 divided by 3 is 3 remainder .4; so it returns .4, if not totally accurately in our thought.
<mordof> i gave up playing all games / watching shows recently. was a huge time killer
<benzrf> D:
<benzrf> floating point numbers are BS
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<mordof> lol
<benzrf> rationals 4 lyfe
<rkazak> floating numbers are real ! :)
<benzrf> >> Rational(1, 10) + Rational(2, 10)
<mordof> >> 4 / 10
<benzrf> :^)
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<mordof> ...
<mordof> is there some issue with the bot right now?
<NotproN> Any rubyenv user here?
<The_NetZ> >> puts 'this is a test'
<eval-in__> The_NetZ => this is a test ... (https://eval.in/142228)
<The_NetZ> dunno
<mordof> >> puts 4 / 10
<eval-in__> mordof => 0 ... (https://eval.in/142230)
<mordof> o.O
<mordof> >> 4 / 10
<eval-in__> mordof => 0 (https://eval.in/142231)
<The_NetZ> eh. I prefer imaginary friendly numbers :P
<benzrf> int arith by default in rb
<benzrf> :(
<benzrf> >> 4.0 / 10.0
<eval-in__> benzrf => 0.4 (https://eval.in/142232)
<mordof> ah
<mordof> so..
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<rkazak> >> 4 / 10.0
<eval-in__> rkazak => 0.4 (https://eval.in/142234)
<mordof> >> (34.0 % 30.0) / 10.0
<eval-in__> mordof => 0.4 (https://eval.in/142235)
<mordof> there
<mordof> >> 3.4 % 3 # problem solved when multiplying everything so that it's whole numbers, then bringing it back
<eval-in__> mordof => 0.3999999999999999 (https://eval.in/142237)
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<benzrf> >not using rationals
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<rkazak> >> 4.0 / 10
<eval-in__> rkazak => 0.4 (https://eval.in/142238)
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<rkazak> ruby coerce’s…
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<mordof> rkazak: that isn't a problem in that scenario...
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<mordof> benzrf: what if i wanted to write a case statement that had multiple where expressions that match to different things? and i wanted all of them that matched to run.. how would i go about doing something like that?
<mordof> benzrf: would i have to make a bunch of individual if checks instead?
<benzrf> hmmmm
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<benzrf> interesting o=
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<benzrf> i would say make a dict, but that's syntactically annoying
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<mordof> hmmm
<mordof> for i in 0..5 do; puts "i: #{i}"; end; <-- is i only available inside the for loop? or is it a local variable to its parent?
<benzrf> dont use for loops
<benzrf> they're dumb syntactic sugar for #each
<benzrf> it is *VERY* un-idiomatic to use for
<mordof> well, there's a few scenarios where they make sense - but for the most part i agree
<benzrf> yeah?
<benzrf> whatre those?
<mordof> well.. i suppose (0..5).each { |i| } makes more sense
<benzrf> :-)
<mordof> i'm not used to ranges, lol
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<benzrf> the main diff between #each and for is the scoping
<mordof> but just for the sake of knowledge - back to my original question?
<benzrf> yeah
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<benzrf> in that case i is a regular var within the scope the for is in
<benzrf> it will be visible outside
<benzrf> while in a block, it would NOT
<benzrf> *be
<mordof> right
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<mordof> ok, thanks. the tutorial page i was reading was unclear on that
<benzrf> ruby mostly follows similar-to-js scoping
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<mordof> yeah, seems that way :) it's nice, that most things are similar
<benzrf> just implicitly assume that every first assignment has a 'var' in front and any further assgns. dont
<mordof> hmm?
<mordof> for a block?
<benzrf> for an entire method body
<benzrf> including any blocks in it
<benzrf> so:
<mordof> i'm confused..
<benzrf> v = 1
<benzrf> some_method {v = 2}
<benzrf> thatll set the original v
<benzrf> v = 1
<benzrf> some_method {x = 2}
<benzrf> x is local to the block
<benzrf> just imagine the first appearence of a var has a 'var' kwd in front
<mordof> yeah -0 but it's confusing when you said the rest don't, because when you don't put a var infront in js - they become global, heh
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<benzrf> i mean the rest dont cuz they act as setting it
<benzrf> w/e forget i said that >_>
* mordof nods
<mordof> heh, no worries
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<mordof> it took me ages to find out that declaring a variable without var would create it as a global variable in js... and i mean years
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<mordof> i had never done it... always declared my variables with var in the correct scope xD
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<benzrf> yes js is weird like that
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<mordof> so... you said that variables will behave that way even if it's inside a block
<mordof> so if i do...
<skeephan> hi
<benzrf> well to be precise
<mordof> def myfunc; myvar = 2; (0..2).each { |n| myvar = n; }; puts myvar; end; it'll be 2?
<benzrf> yep
<mordof> or
<mordof> that was a TERRIBLE exampkle. haha
<benzrf> var assgn. will create a new one local to the current block if there is nothing with the same name outside
<benzrf> OTHERWISE it will assign upwards
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<mordof> >> def myfunc; myvar = 12; (0..2).each { |n| myvar = n; }; puts myvar; end;
<eval-in__> mordof => :myfunc (https://eval.in/142244)
<benzrf> like in coffeescript
<mordof> hm
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<benzrf> mordof: you need to call it :P
<mordof> >> def myfunc; myvar = 12; (0..2).each { |n| myvar = n; }; puts myvar.call; end;
<eval-in__> mordof => :myfunc (https://eval.in/142245)
<benzrf> i mean
<benzrf> you need to call the method >.<
<mordof> >> def myfunc; myvar = 12; (0..2).each { |n| myvar = n; }; puts myvar(); end;
<eval-in__> mordof => :myfunc (https://eval.in/142246)
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<mordof> lol
* benzrf facepalms
<mordof> xD
<mordof> hey i'm new
<mordof> shhhh
<mordof> skeephan: hi
<mordof> oooh!
<mordof> benzrf: i got it
<benzrf> lol
<benzrf> >> def myfunc; myvar = 12; (0..2).each { |n| myvar = n; }; puts myvar; end; myfunc
<eval-in__> benzrf => 2 ... (https://eval.in/142248)
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<mordof> >> def myfunc; myvar = 12; (0..2).each { |n| myvar = n; }; puts myvar; end; myfunc
<eval-in__> mordof => 2 ... (https://eval.in/142249)
<centrx> >> where's my func
<eval-in__> centrx => /tmp/execpad-612e84fe1613/source-612e84fe1613:2: unterminated string meets end of file ... (https://eval.in/142250)
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<mordof> yeah
<benzrf> haha
<benzrf> mordof: you got the symbol because method defs are also expressions
<mordof> rofl, i'm an idiot xD
<benzrf> like everything else in RubyPanther
<benzrf> *ruby
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<benzrf> mordof: prior to ruby 2.0 (maybe 2.1, idr) method defs return nil
<benzrf> after, they return a symbol of the method's name
<benzrf> 20>> def foo; end;
<eval-in__> benzrf => nil (https://eval.in/142252)
<benzrf> 21>> def foo; end;
<benzrf> 21>> var = (def foo; end;) puts var
<eval-in__> benzrf => /tmp/execpad-e1b900ee665d/source-e1b900ee665d:2: syntax error, unexpected tIDENTIFIER, expecting keyword_end ... (https://eval.in/142253)
<benzrf> 21>> var = (def foo; end); puts var
<eval-in__> benzrf => foo ... (https://eval.in/142254)
<RubyPanther> >> puts def wtf; end
<eval-in__> RubyPanther => wtf ... (https://eval.in/142256)
<benzrf> literally everything in ruby is an expression
<benzrf> :-)
* mordof nods
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<benzrf> lisp-like
<RubyPanther> defining methods from inside expressions can be done. But please. Do not.
<benzrf> RubyPanther++ for once
<mordof> haha
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<mordof> >> [[1, 2]].each { |i, k| print i, k }
<eval-in__> mordof => 12[[1, 2]] (https://eval.in/142257)
<mordof> ok now i'm confused, lol
<mordof> >> [[1, 2]].each { |i, k| print i, ', ', k }
<eval-in__> mordof => 1, 2[[1, 2]] (https://eval.in/142258)
<mordof> ok
<mordof> that's because things like: a, b, (c, d) = [1, 2, [4, 2]] work that it allows that correct?
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<benzrf> unpacking
<mordof> ah
<benzrf> mordof: note that that kind of unpacking only works in block argss
<benzrf> not in method args
<mordof> oh, good to know
<benzrf> also, you can call blocks with more or less args and extras will be discarded or not enough will add nilsove
<benzrf> *nils
<benzrf> but methods u must be correct
<mordof> so i'd want do so something like a .each and then a splat to change it up for method args? lol
<benzrf> basically blocks are more flexible about that in general\
<mordof> >> [[1, 2]].map { |i, k| return i, ', ', k }
<mordof> oh right..
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<mordof> >> [[1, 2]].map { |i, k| return i.to_s + ', ' + k.to_s }
<eval-in__> mordof => unexpected return (LocalJumpError) ... (https://eval.in/142259)
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<mordof> >.>;;;
<benzrf> returns dont work like that in blocks
<mordof> >> [[1, 2]].map { |i, k| i.to_s + ', ' + k.to_s }
<eval-in__> mordof => ["1, 2"] (https://eval.in/142261)
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<benzrf> return from a block will return from the method you wrote the block in
<mordof> wooo
<benzrf> mordof: that's so you can do this:
<benzrf> def foo\
<benzrf> bar.each dp
<benzrf> ugh
<benzrf> def foo
<benzrf> bar.each do |thing|
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<benzrf> return if whatever
<benzrf> end
<benzrf> end
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<benzrf> ^then the return in the block will return from the lexically surrounding method
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<mordof> ah
<benzrf> if you want to terminate a block early, use 'next'
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<benzrf> or 'break' to force the method that called the block to return
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<mordof> is next == continue in js?
<benzrf> not quite
<mordof> or is that break in js
<benzrf> next is like return from a block
<mordof> ok
<benzrf> it's used like continue when you use #each
<benzrf> or the likemike
<benzrf> *like
<benzrf> because it causes the current block execution to return
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<benzrf> meaning that the each method is free to call it again
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<benzrf> while break will force each itself to return, meaning that the iteration is entirely over
<mordof> map calls the block unique for each iteration independantly though right?
<benzrf> precisely
<benzrf> next and break will work in any block
<benzrf> each is not magic
<RubyPanther> >> class Z0mg ; def der; @wtf=nil; end ; def wtf; @wtf ||= send def wtf; @wtf ||= rand end ; "d'oh" end end ; z=Z0mg.new; [z.wtf, z.wtf, z.der || z.wtf ]
<eval-in__> RubyPanther => ["d'oh", 0.8364946280494512, 0.584599479946852] (https://eval.in/142262)
<mordof> .......
<benzrf> ignore him
<mordof> lol
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<RubyPanther> it is like a cross between spaghetti and a pretzel
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<mordof> >> (0..5).each { |n| n > 2 ? break : puts n }
<eval-in__> mordof => /tmp/execpad-be1f1bab08d2/source-be1f1bab08d2:2: syntax error, unexpected tIDENTIFIER, expecting keyword_do or '{' or '(' ... (https://eval.in/142263)
<mordof> woop, i broke it
<shubhamjain> What is meaning of "do" when not in context of loops. For eg in rails, "create_table :topics do |t| ....... end".. intuitively, I feel it is equivalent to "create_table(:topics) as t" but not sure.
<arubin> do ... end creates a block.
<arubin> In all contexts.
<benzrf> shubhamjain: do..end is exactly the same as {}
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<mordof> so is that the same as create_table :topics { |t| } ? oh ok
<RubyPanther> Ruby doesn't have context
<benzrf> the only difference is
<benzrf> foo something do end
<benzrf> ^works
<benzrf> foo something {}
<benzrf> ^does not
<benzrf> u have to do
<benzrf> foo(something) {}
<benzrf> other than that {} and do..end are 100% identical
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<mordof> ooh
<benzrf> i usually use {} whenever its on one line and do..end whenever its multiline
<mordof> would: foo something {} try to place the code block on something instead of foo(something), so order of operations?
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<benzrf> mordof: i dont see why do..end would fix that
<benzrf> no, i think it's a matter of trying to parse {} as a hash argument to something
<mordof> good point..
<mordof> ooh
<benzrf> >> foo bar {}
<eval-in__> benzrf => undefined method `bar' for main:Object (NoMethodError) ... (https://eval.in/142270)
<benzrf> hmm
<benzrf> >> foo bar {|v| v}
<eval-in__> benzrf => undefined method `bar' for main:Object (NoMethodError) ... (https://eval.in/142271)
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<benzrf> huh
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<benzrf> that worked
<benzrf> ??
<benzrf> w/e
<mordof> now i'm curious
<benzrf> ruby's syntax is hella complicated and sometimes slightly ambiguous
<benzrf> for example
<benzrf> foo [1, 2, 3]
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<benzrf> ^calls the foo method with [1, 2, 3]
<benzrf> foo[1, 2, 3]
<benzrf> ^calls the [] method on foo with 1, 2, 3
<mordof> 'tis what happens when you make the () optional, heh
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<rkazak> but that’s frowned upon now? () should be used were appropriate?
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* benzrf shrugs
<benzrf> as they say
<benzrf> timtowtdi
<mordof> ?
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<benzrf> there is more than one way to do it
<shubhamjain> and in the generated migration file, I see something like this. do |t| .... t.string :topics .. t.timestamps end... I don't get how this will execute. t.string(:topics)..
<rkazak> :)
<benzrf> a phrase originally applied to perl
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<centrx> shubhamjain, Parentheses are optional in that situation
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<mordof> >> (0..5).each { |n| n > 2 ? next : puts n }
<eval-in__> mordof => /tmp/execpad-ded7e7eb5c83/source-ded7e7eb5c83:2: syntax error, unexpected tIDENTIFIER, expecting keyword_do or '{' or '(' ... (https://eval.in/142278)
<mordof> why does this break?
<mordof> >> (0..5).each { |n| n > 2 ? next : puts n; }
<eval-in__> mordof => /tmp/execpad-b3527ddec483/source-b3527ddec483:2: syntax error, unexpected tIDENTIFIER, expecting keyword_do or '{' or '(' ... (https://eval.in/142279)
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<havenwood> >> (0..5).each { |n| n > 2 ? next : puts(n) }
<eval-in__> havenwood => 0 ... (https://eval.in/142281)
<havenwood> mordof: ternary likes parens
<mordof> ooh
<mordof> doesn't associate the n as part of the puts call
<mordof> why does it show 0 ... as the result?
<arubin> Click the link.
<mordof> >> (0..5).each { |n| n > 2 ? next : print(n) }
<eval-in__> mordof => 0120..5 (https://eval.in/142284)
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<mordof> right, puts does new line, so there's more results
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<mordof> >> (0..5).each { |n| n > 2 && n > 4 ? next : print(n) }
<eval-in__> mordof => 012340..5 (https://eval.in/142289)
<mordof> >> (0..5).each { |n| n > 2 || n > 4 ? next : print(n) }
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<mordof> i broke it
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<mordof> >> (0..5).each { |n| (n > 2 || n > 4) ? next : print(n) }
<eval-in__> mordof => 0120..5 (https://eval.in/142290)
<mordof> oh
<mordof> -.-
<mordof> >> (0..5).each { |n| (n > 2 && n < 4) ? next : print(n) }
<eval-in__> mordof => 012450..5 (https://eval.in/142291)
<mordof> that finally clears up how next behaves. i need to figure out how to get a solid cli functioning in windows where i can do this local
<mordof> my ruby CLI is... i don't even know what it expects from me, lol
<arubin> Did you try running irb?
<mordof> ahhh that's what i needed!
<mordof> arubin: thanks :)
<arubin> No problem.
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<mordof> yay for not having to clutter up the channel near so much when i want to try something.
<arubin> mordof: There is also ideone.com for future reference.
<arubin> Just change the language to Ruby.
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<mordof> arubin: i have sublime text, which utilizes the ruby compiler
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<mordof> i just find it easier, when i'm trying to fiddle with a single thing, to use a CLI or a small tool that responds easier
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<rkazak> mordof: irb ?
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<benzrf> irb < pry
<benzrf> mordof: use vim !
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<benzrf> real hackers use vim
<benzrf> or emacs
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<benzrf> ST is for hipsters who use macs cuz theyre prettier
<benzrf> >:(
<arubin> Adults do not care about impressing "real hackers".
<benzrf> i was saying that semi-ironically
* benzrf dons thick-framed glasses
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* benzrf moves to portland
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<benzrf> actually, i already live in the portland area
<benzrf> just a different portland
<benzrf> its annoying cuz googling for portland always brings up the other one
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<mordof> i prefer ST.. been using it for years
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<benzrf> have you used vim tho
<mordof> some, yes
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<benzrf> no man u gotta use it for at least a month
<rkazak> what there’s something apart from emacs…
<benzrf> it takes time for the stockholm syndrome to set in
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<mordof> lol
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<benzrf> >muh modal editing
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<mordof> what's amazing about vim that i can't do with ST?
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<benzrf> modal editing
<benzrf> :^)
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<mordof> what is modal editing? lol..
<benzrf> editing with modes
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<arubin> benzrf: Why is modal editing desirable?
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<benzrf> because it lets you do awesome stuff with less keystrokes
<rkazak> the buffer can apply syntax checking… folding… completion based on mode
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<benzrf> modal editing is to text editing as shells are to general file management
<benzrf> imo
<arubin> rkazak: He is not taking about emacs.
<dseitz> visual block is pretty cool
<benzrf> emacs & vim are awesome in different ways
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<benzrf> dseitz: thats a specific feature though
<rkazak> Yep.
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<arubin> benzrf: ST allows one to do most of those things without entering another mode.
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<dseitz> I love Vim, but I also found ST more than capable enough so I moved to it
<benzrf> u wut
<benzrf> how do u even
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<rkazak> :O
<kies> D:
<benzrf> !!
<dseitz> hehehe
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<arubin> emacs is far more interesting than vim, but the finger contortions are a bit ridiculous.
<rkazak> you can remap that…
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<rkazak> emacs is a way of life....
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<benzrf> 12:46 < arubin> benzrf: ST allows one to do most of those things without entering another mode.
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<benzrf> arubin: i do not think u would say that if you had used vim for long enough to get some muscle memory
<benzrf> :^)
<arubin> benzrf: I do not understand this line of argument.
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<arubin> The ability to write code as fast as possible is not high on the list of important skills.
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<arubin> Remove tedium, sure.
<arubin> Saving a few keystrokes, meh.
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<myke> you get used to the contortions
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<myke> like playing chords on a guitar
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<dseitz> The modes are the most missed feature when working in ST for me; but the gain is so minimal that its like "Eh"
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<arubin> dseitz: Can you give an example of something that is made easier by modes?
<benzrf> dseitz: >:o
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<myke> emacs modes?
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<arubin> vim
<benzrf> arubin: u are making the arguments of a blub person
<myke> oh, dunno
<myke> the emacs modes are pretty crucial
<arubin> Yes, we are not talking about emacs modes though.
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<myke> arubin: can you reindent your entire buffer in ST?
<dseitz> I don't think it is something I could really describe here. You get used to the editing style and after learning how to exploit it, you sort of miss being able to do it
<arubin> myke: Yes.
<benzrf> myke: that's not the question
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<benzrf> dseitz++
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<benzrf> the ability to do powerful editing with regular keystrokes in the way vim lets you feels like using a shell after doing GUI-based file management
<arubin> benzrf: Most everything can be done in ST with keystrokes.
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<dseitz> benzrf: If you're curious, how I got to using ST... well, it started with a new MB, a clone of my Vim tree... and realizing that brew/MacVim and mavericks were broke and the research it took to resolve it was a nightmare when I was doing it
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<dseitz> I spent hours trying to get my favorite Python-based plugins to work; later I came back and learned I had to patch the binaries after building it -- so rediculous
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<mordof> dseitz: so does that mean there's no good working vim client for mac os right now?
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<mordof> or is that just the modified version you used
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<benzrf> sudo apt-get install vim-gtk
<benzrf> oh wait ur on os x
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<dseitz> Mavericks comes with a pretty capable version of Vim; MacVim is super easy to install and get running
<benzrf> ill just be over here using my FLOSS OS
<dseitz> It's just... Python
<benzrf> with a system-integrated package manager
<benzrf> :^)
<mordof> benzrf: OS X for my work computers. i'm a windows user normally :p
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<benzrf> windows????
* mordof nods
* benzrf shuns mordof
<arubin> If a brew package like macvim were broken, it would be fixed fairly quickly.
<mordof> haha
<benzrf> stay away from me peasant
<mordof> ;_;
<benzrf> i dont want to catch your viruses
* mordof chases after benzrf
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<dseitz> arubin: They broke Python for quite a while if you recall
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* mordof doesn't have any viruses
<mordof> i just formatted, lol
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<benzrf> absolutely disgusting
<myke> better lose that attitude
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<benzrf> myke: it's fun ho
<benzrf> *tho
<arubin> If benzrf loses the attitude, what will he have?
<myke> today i did a chef/vagrant/etc setup entirely on web guy's windows box...and the only change needed was pulling down a shell script, because that still cares about line endings, and of course windows git changes everything to windows text format (and back)
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<benzrf> arubin: lel
<myke> everything else was literally the same...run commands on git bash, except they end in .exe now
<benzrf> still disgusting
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<myke> we generated his keys and everything right on windows, the same way as on unix
<benzrf> nyehh]
<benzrf> its not floss even
<myke> actually in bash you don't even need the .exe, it seems to automagically add it
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<Lemur> ....I came in at an odd time
<myke> benzrf: if you keep piling on floss tools at what point is it floss?
<Lemur> wat
<dseitz> When you put it in your teeth
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<benzrf> myke: at the point rms doesnt complain
<benzrf> :^)
<myke> benzrf: so no existing system now and probably ever, then
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<mordof> myke: you don't need the .exe in command prompt
<myke> orly
* mordof nods
<myke> hmm that's changed too, probably from command.com to cmd.exe
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<benzrf> mordof: stop using windows or ill keep shunning you
<mordof> yeah
<benzrf> windows is for lusers
<Lemur> I assume it's been said, but windows and Ruby is going to be a bad time
<myke> haha what?
<myke> why?
<mordof> no? lol
<benzrf> windows and anything at all besides games is going to be a bad time
<arubin> dseitz: Just installed MacVim via brew and it ran without a problem.
<benzrf> windows bloooooooooooooooows
<myke> wow you guys need to get out of the 90s
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<dseitz> arubin: Like I said; specific issue of the time :)
<myke> hate to tell you but all these tools are ported to windows and they work great...they are the same
<myke> if i only showed you the shell window you would not be able to tell it was windows
<Lemur> I live in a terminal mind you, and there's a huge difference.
<Lemur> dir
<Lemur> yep
<Lemur> I can tell
<myke> i live in a terminal and i'm telling you there's not
<myke> yeah you don't use cmd.com
<myke> you use bash
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<myke> i also have zsh and rxvt on my windows box
<Lemur> cygwin != bash
<myke> and that's native, not even cygwin
<benzrf> cygwin blooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooows
<Lemur> Trust me, I can tell
<myke> wow you guys are really bad at listening
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<mordof> myke: not really much point :p lol
<myke> no cygwin at all
<myke> not that i see cygwin as a problem
<mordof> i'm used to people hating on windows.. meh
<benzrf> windows continues to blooooooooooooooooooooooooooow
<myke> but i use the mingw tools and sometimes the old unxutils
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<myke> sounds like some ppl are looking to be obsolete...
<benzrf> i say this as somebody who used windows for 10 years and swore by it until i switched to loonix
<mordof> i'm still able to modify a lot more stuff in windows that i know how to in any other operating system - so it continues to be the most manipulatable system to me
* mordof shrugs
<Lemur> define obsolete
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<benzrf> >01:05 < mordof> i'm still able to modify a lot more stuff in windows that i know how to in any other operating system - so it continues to be the most manipulatable system to me
<myke> lemur: not being able to do your job on all operating systems
<benzrf> AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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<myke> i run linux...but every other computer in this office is windows
<myke> desktops i mean
<Lemur> I can, I just feel like jumping out a window afterwards
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<Lemur> I typically run *BSD type systems when I have a choice, I was a SysAdmin for a number of years. Windows is the fastest way to drive me up a wall.
<mordof> benzrf: and up until last week - i've always wanted to do some degree of gaming on my computer. that being a primary motivator
<myke> mostly what annoys me about windows are popups you can't stop
<dseitz> I don't mind working in Windows; some of the visual tools aren't too bad. The font rendering is horrendeous; I can't recall how I could think it was good
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<myke> i need to find a good virtual desktop system for Aero
<myke> i bet there is one
<dseitz> But ultimately... it becomes a case of "Does XYZ have Dash?? " hehehe
<myke> never found one for xp but i think you need Aero for that to work on windows
<dseitz> I can't live without Dash
<myke> what's dash?
<Lemur> alt shell
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<benzrf> dash, rly?
<benzrf> it doesnt even tab complete does it
<Lemur> scsh
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<benzrf> oh
<dseitz> I think we are thinking of different things
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<benzrf> yeah lol\
<Lemur> dash is an alt shell, but not what he's on.
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<Lemur> benzrf, I thought it too
<myke> we have windows roaming desktops...powered by samba4
<myke> it's slick as
<benzrf> universal truth: nobody will realize how awful windows is until they use a unix for programming for at least a year and then go back
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<mordof> benzrf: the other thing is being a webgl developer right now isn't that great in anything other than windows
<mordof> so there's that as well
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<benzrf> u wut
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<dseitz> Dash documentation tool is a simple idea that turned it to a great developer tool
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<RubyPanther> I only use *nix, and I had no trouble doing WebGL programming for a 3d class on both regular linux, and android
<Lemur> Learn Pry well, also quite useful
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<benzrf> pry owns
<benzrf> thx banister
<mordof> RubyPanther: well - i'm a poor excuse for a *nix user, so that's more likely the reason then, hah
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<RubyPanther> If you can't even find the libraries you need to install, you're screwed no matter what tech you use
<Lemur> Doing a conference talk on it in June
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<Lemur> Well, internal conference, but still a pretty large one.
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<mordof> benzrf: i'm basically on a completely fresh install of windows. nothing is installed yet. are you willing to help me get things rolling in a different OS if i switch? lol
<Lemur> I tried writing Ruby in Windows for a year and a half
<RubyPanther> And you can use "windows" the OS without using any of the MS dev tools, there seems to be some product conflation going on here
<Lemur> It was hell
<benzrf> mordof: hell yeah
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<mordof> benzrf: gonna be around tomorrow during the day?
<benzrf> sure
<mordof> alright
<benzrf> wait probably
<myke> you don't have to switch
<benzrf> my mom might try to drag me somewhere
<myke> just fire up a virtualbox
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<Lemur> FreeBSD ftw
<myke> freebsd is my main os
<myke> i only got into linux because freebsd was lagging on virtualization
<myke> but they stepped up and got that handled
<RubyPanther> One of my main clients runs my code on windoze using SQL Server, but I develop it on linux using postgres. Last time I had an OS-specific GUI bug using Gtk... 2003
<myke> now i'm considering setting up a bhyve
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<Lemur> OpenBSD is normally my go to
<benzrf> Lemur: i would, if gnu/linux hasnt completely dominated it on market share
<benzrf> afaict
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<myke> RubyPanther++
<myke> i was one of those "no microsoft evar!!" guys in the 90s...now i just use computers
<dseitz> I used to be into Windows programming.
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<RubyPanther> If you're still platform locked... don't do that, it hurts
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<benzrf> i know you could say the same about windows v gnu/linux but unless im wrong the gap is smaller
<Lemur> OpenBSD is heralded as the most secure OS in existence.
<myke> Lemur: as long as you never need to use the disk
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<dseitz> MS lost direction several years ago and alienated many teams. I'll never buy visual studio again; and no, express is a far shadow of the real thing
<Lemur> I'm inclined to agree
<benzrf> FLOSS 4ever
<Lemur> myke: expand
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<myke> at this point openbsd is basically just the reference platform for openssh, and whatever the final name of their openssl gutting project is
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<Lemur> LibreSSL
<myke> Lemur: openbsd hasn't been a serious server platform in some time
<arubin> Ultimate edition is only $13,299!
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<Lemur> I still deploy OpenBSD servers
<RubyPanther> openbsd is widely used by people not kewl enough to have their OS choices talked about
<dseitz> arubin: Newest version now supports HTML5!!!
<myke> Lemur: and they probably all have horrible disk performance
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<Lemur> Not really
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<myke> i still have an openbsd router at home, but with multi-core pf on freebsd now, that'll likely be the last one
<mordof> so which distro do i go with? lol
<Lemur> Never anything noticeable.
<Lemur> Mint tends to be a nicer start
<myke> mordof: ubuntu 14.04
<mordof> not ubuntu >.>
<benzrf> mordof: want something with a windows-y gu
<benzrf> *gui
<Mark_> ubuntu 14.04 is the easy choice
<s2013> how does ruby interface with commandline tools like imagemagick? i am going through rmagic gem source code but not understanding it fully
<benzrf> mordof: use mint
<Mark_> hands down
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<benzrf> it's an ubuntu fork with a more windows-like dev1x
<benzrf> *DE
<s2013> i thought it would just execute imagemagick in the background using `
<mordof> easy, yes. absolutely gross, also yes
<Lemur> Mint is based on Ubuntu, but looks more Windows
<benzrf> ^
<RubyPanther> s2013: It doesn't, I think it uses the C api?
<dseitz> mordof: Probably something with a quick upstart, Ubuntu is probably the easiest OS to install - from zero to up and ready faster than any OS I've ever installed
<dseitz> I prefer Arch though :P
<benzrf> mordof: naturally you could just set up cinnamon on ubuntu
<s2013> how though
<benzrf> mordof: works either way
<RubyPanther> normally anything that is a CLI tool has a C api, and that is what is interfaced with
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<benzrf> you're not exactly tethered to any DE
<myke> how's zfs on openbsd?
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<s2013> does it use ffi?
<Lemur> Haven't had a need for it
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<Mark_> theres really no use case for openbsd
<Mark_> sorry friends
<mordof> benzrf: used lubuntu, mint, and cinnamon. i've jumped back and forth on those OS's based on ubuntu.. hmm actually i forget which distro i've got on my laptop now
<Lemur> Zetabyte File System
<Mark_> not trying to start a holy war or anything here
<myke> ok, so we have different definitions of "server"
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<Mark_> but freebsd can barely keep up with linux, openbsd is basically playing with flowers in the corner
<myke> haha what
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<Lemur> ....what now?
<mordof> benzrf: i know enough to get around in linux - i also know enough about ubuntu to know that the main distro is bloated to hell and i won't touch it, lol. it's worse than windows 8 for me
<dseitz> Oh on another note; Unreal Tech is support Linux again :)
<RubyPanther> I recommend Fedora for 3 reasons: there are always paste-able lists of RPM dependencies for major software, it is very pragmatic and "business friendly" including being a good server and a good dev platform, and it is no longer trendy enough to be full of hipsters
<Lemur> Mark: Facts
<myke> mordof: try xubuntu then
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<Lemur> RubyPanther: Never Fedora
<myke> none of the ubuntus are anywhere near as bloated as windows
<mordof> myke: ah - that was the one i've got on my laptop. yeah
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<Lemur> it's the alpha playground of Redhat.
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<mordof> myke: no i know. windows 8 just doesn't "feel" like it to me, even though i know it is, heh
<Lemur> minefield, that
<RubyPanther> In fact, most hipsters react to Fedora almost as if they have allergies
<mordof> myke: i hate unity though
<benzrf> mordof: use mint
<iamayam> ^^
<mordof> meh - xubuntu it is tomorrow
<myke> mordof: xubuntu has xfce
<benzrf> its basically ubuntu w/ cinnamon
<myke> tho you can get even leaner setups
<Lemur> Blanket statements a case does note make
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<myke> i had a nice icewm setup for xrdp going
<RubyPanther> "Society is important because of ubuntu" -- President Clinton
<Lemur> not*
<myke> much leaner even than xfce
<Lemur> TMUX
<dseitz> xfce is nice; I ended up configuring AwesomeWM and sticking with that for quite some time
<dseitz> Don't recommend it unless you have a few hours to kill
<Lemur> I don't use a GUI unless I have to
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<Lemur> but then again I'm also used to headless servers
<Lemur> definitely not for everyone
<myke> it's more than windows, it also gives you virtual desktops
<Lemur> and as far as OpenBSD bashing, facts or it didn't happen
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<Mark_> =/
<Mark_> nobody uses fbsd for new deployments
<Mark_> not since like.. 5
<Mark_> ;/
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<Mark_> they didnt get any real smp networking until fbsd 8 right?
<Lemur> Not a fact
<Mark_> let me check
<Lemur> try again
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<benzrf> nixos looks to be good for servers
<benzrf> i know almost nothing about it tho
<Lemur> The point of OpenBSD is security, not speed. Full disk encryption will slow things down.
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<Lemur> and security they win, hands down.
<benzrf> openbsd more like open[tohackers]bsd
<benzrf> (⌐■_■)
<mordof> haha
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<RubyPanther> You can actually turn that stuff off...
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<Mark_> yes because openbsd was immune to heartbleed rite
<Lemur> Irrelevant
<myke> does yahoo still run on freebsd?
<Lemur> Why do you think they're forking the project?
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<Mark_> lol
<Mark_> i dunno, because they like to close the barn door after all the horses already escape?
<RubyPanther> if your system is configured based on defaults, you shouldn't claim to have "performance" anyways, or to care about it. Or security, for that matter... installing OpenBSD is a good start but it doesn't teach you how to set up a server to run secured services
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<rkazak> to many forks are a distraction…
<Lemur> No OS can defend against bad 3rd party programs
<Mark_> i can run a linux system just as secure as openbsd
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<Mark_> its called 'not running anything by default'
<Mark_> its not hte kernel getting 'hacked' anyway, its the daemons
<Mark_> and its not like you arent going be using the same old shit
<Mark_> apache, nginx, isc bind, dhcp, etc
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<myke> you guys know there's close ties between Apple and freebsd right?
<Mark_> sooooooooo, that security high horse can eat a dick
<Mark_> lol
<myke> it's not just happenstance that freebsd is ported to clang these days
<rkazak> Lol
<RubyPanther> BSDs have a long history of defending against bad 3rd party programs, but aggressively altering the versions they ship. If they missed a few, that doesn't change that they're the best group at doing that.
<myke> or that the osx userland is essentially the freebsd userland
<Mark_> freebsd is moving away from gcc because of gpl3
<Mark_> not 'apple ties'
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<Mark_> hey i like bsd's, competition is good, choices are good
<Lemur> The amount of 'research' you've done regarding this isn't particularly impressive.
<mordof> ... i feel like i somehow spurred on this conversation after saying I use windows >.>;;; lol
<Mark_> but that openbsd is the bees knees for security schtik is tired and old
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<Lemur> regardless, mute, as I don't have time to deal with children
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<Mark_> 'those bad guys winnuking people wont get me, im running openbsd'
<Mark_> :P
<RubyPanther> openbsd being old, or having a security focus for a long time, doesn't mean it is tired, or that it is not still true
<myke> Mark_: no
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* mordof wanders off to bed.
<myke> you think it's just random that freebsd was the first os to be built with clang?
<rkazak> can we talk about opensolaris … ;)
<RubyPanther> They've had, what, 1 root exploit in 10 years? Nobody is perfect...
<Mark_> rofl, opensolaris
<mordof> i'll be bad tomorrow ready to set up a "real" dev environment to work in, lol
<Mark_> aka 'that thing zfs came from right?'
<benzrf> mordof: :^)
<myke> i still remember when they got jordan hubbard to step down as freebsd project leader and go work for apple instead
<mordof> back*
<RubyPanther> my first *nix shell was on SunOS 4
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<myke> zfs made opensolaris worth it
<rkazak> yep and zones and dtrace....
<RubyPanther> csh
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<myke> last i checked openzfs wasn't nearly as far along and btrfs is still essentially a lab project
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<myke> opensolaris.ko is still a prerequisite for zfs.ko
<benzrf> and reiserfs kills ur wife
<rkazak> :)
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<mordof> benzrf: only downfall - my entire data drive is ntfs / windows related files. blegh
<rkazak> the god old day! HoHumm….
<mordof> benzrf: it's read/writable now - but yeah.. kind of annoying
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<mordof> hmmm
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<mordof> photoshop/illustrator/autocad.. wondering how those will work in a VM..
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<Mark_> all those major players really turning to openbsd for their killer apps right :P
<Mark_> all those ec2 bsd instances
<Mark_> oh and herokus bsd framework rite? :P
<Mark_> and redhat openshift and microsoft azure and google cloud engine
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<Mark_> openbsd is so prevalant throughout all of them, isnt it :P
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<Mark_> if you're gonna use freebsd, rock on, but that security argument is bogus and a half :X
<Mark_> err, openbsd * :P
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<rkazak> Mark_: was that a button we pressed ?
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<Mark_> nah i just got distracted for a second
<Mark_> :P
<rkazak> :)
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<Mark_> i do get annoyed at obscuro evanglists though
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<rkazak> anyway we are above that - it’s ruby were we-is @!!
<myke> freebsd works great on ec2
<Mark_> well, yea thats the best point of them all
<myke> i've been using it for a few things now
<Mark_> how often are we really touching bare os these days anyway
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<rkazak> right.
<Mark_> 90% of my stuff is 'git push' :P
<rkazak> nice.
<Mark_> even on azure, nicely enough
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<myke> Mark_: ...which is the argument that started all this actually
<rkazak> There has got to be some radical change until then we have what we have...
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<myke> nowadays your stack is almost entirely independent of the underlying OS
<myke> everything's ported
<myke> well almost
<myke> lack of inotify in freebsd is a problem
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<rkazak> I always wonder if the developer community is spreading itself too thin, choice is good to much choice is confusion and wasteful ?
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<isomorphismes> I'm stuck on ruby koan number 6
<mordof> too much choice is only a problem for those that don't know what they want
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<Mark_> its not really spreading itself so thinly
<Mark_> theres a herd mentality
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<Mark_> which is why projects that were historically extremely strong, are more 'maintenance mode'
<Mark_> its not just operating systems, its certainly languages
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<rkazak> agreed.
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<isomorphismes> The answers on stackoverflow are too cryptic for me to understand.
<Mark_> ruby is still new, but look how many flavors are up and coming
<yarou> ruby is new
<Mark_> well, new to really heavy usage i suppose
<rkazak> relatively…
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<Mark_> 5 years ago it was all php or asp.net
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<Mark_> 5ish years before that it was all perl/early php
<rkazak> Ruby needs more ‘killer’ apps… Rails is the only thing at the moment?
<Mark_> its an interesting time to be a web developer
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<Mark_> well, ruby has discourse, but its not really there yet, kind of a pita
<rkazak> Yes, I would agree with that too.
<Mark_> its nice looking forum software
<yarou> yes ruby is so painful
<yarou> compared to asp
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<yarou> ...
<Mark_> tbh i find php easier than anything
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<Mark_> but its also the sloppiest and hackish of the bunch
<Mark_> python is usually so clean to ready
<Mark_> read*
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<myke> perl is the most dramatic example
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<myke> in the 90s the web ran on perl
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<myke> now you barely ever see it
<Mark_> heroku and openshift are helping move languages like ruby and python into mainstream usage though
<Mark_> the 'app stack' webdev mentality
<rkazak> not sure about that…
<yarou> just because you "barely ever see it" doesn't mean it's never used
<yarou> lol
<Mark_> yea well, i get paid to write .NET
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<yarou> COBOL is still used
<yarou> but you "never see it"
<Mark_> as do most every other 'enterprise developer' i know
<yarou> aka "it's never talked about"
<isomorphismes> I'm copy-pasting error messages from irb like is suggested on SO. Maybe they need to be in quotes?
<Mark_> well, would you talk about cobol if you still used it? lol
<rkazak> COBOL - is still there from ye-old-days....
<Mark_> like bragging about your vw rabbit
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<myke> yarou: i pay attention to what my programs run on...there's still a few perl ones but none on the web
<yarou> "the web"
<yarou> please don't
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<arubin> myke: With modern URL rewriting, you would not know.
<yarou> ok i wrote my latest web service in Go
<yarou> am i cool kid now?
<rkazak> Yo!
<myke> arubin: i'm talking about what runs on my own servers
<Mark_> cool dudes use clojure
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<Mark_> everyone knows that
<Mark_> or scala
<certainty> yarou: only if you also can play Go
<Mark_> thats hip and trendy now right?
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<Mark_> fuck this passe ruby shit
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<yarou> i watched an anime about Go, does it count
<yarou> i read a manga about it too
<certainty> almost
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<yarou> darn
<yarou> almost famous
<rkazak> I say trust in rust….
<myke> the P in LAMP was originally perl
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<certainty> Mark_: clojure calling into java calling into jruby interoping with scala is the next hot thing
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<Mark_> i do kind of miss perl being a thing i actually wrote code in
<benzrf> im be gone now for sleep
<Mark_> and not just one liner i google now and then
<myke> that's what i mean
* benzrf zzz
<certainty> benzrf: yo sleep well
<mordof> benzrf: so.. i realized this was a giant rabbit hole for me
<rkazak> night!
<mordof> benzrf: i don't need to switch OS's to learn ruby - and that's my primary focus right now
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<mordof> so... yeah :p
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<Mark_> no, you just need to go to heroku.com or openshift.com and get to twerk
<myke> mordof: i'm having a hard time thinking of a language that doesn't natively run on windows these days
<yarou> heroku is actually great
<mordof> hm?
<yarou> honestly
<mordof> myke: i know, heh
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<yarou> aws is like going to that strip club that charges more
<yarou> but the models arent as great
<myke> ballmer's gone...i say we give the new guy a chance
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<myke> haha
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<myke> that's really a great analogy
<rkazak> you can alwasy download Virtualbox and run ruby in a number of VMs….
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<myke> i was thining today how relatively crappy a t1.micro is for $15/mo
<certainty> myke: many, often libraries don't run on all platforms and windows is a prominent example of a platform being mostly ignored by some libraries
<mordof> oh - i have a VPS that i can install stuff (ubuntu server) if i want to run linux stuff remotely
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<myke> considering the indy vps you can get for that
<mordof> Mark_: having a linux environment at my disposal remotely isn't an issue
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<arubin> myke: The state of Rust on Windows is pretty sad.
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* mordof is running his weechat through ssh tunnel of his vps
<myke> certainty: libraries, sure, i'm talking about the core language
<certainty> yeah there aren't many that don't target windows somehow
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<certainty> if any
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<rkazak> Also ruby is on the RasberryPI….
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<myke> mordof: ssh tunnel, how quaint...why no openvpn?
<arubin> The issues with Windows generally come from library support.
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<mordof> myke: not sure how to set that up :p
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<mordof> myke: putty -> weechat. easy
<myke> i had a whole mess of nasty ssh and port forward hacks, set up openvpn and got rid of all that cruft
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<myke> oh, that's just regular ssh
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<myke> ssh tunneling means something else
<yarou> i don't know why ruby is considered a "hipster" language along with javascript
<myke> yarou: you can thank RoR for that :/
<certainty> because most ruby programmers don't look like the usual nerds? *wild guess*
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<yarou> are we supposed to use C? lol
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<yarou> with off by one and buffer, heap, and stack overflows
<yarou> i don't get it
<myke> as for javascript, all the kiddies did kewl javascript tricks in the browser, and it oozed out from there
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<certainty> yarou: you can still be off by one in ruby
<yarou> true
<yarou> but i have less things in my head
<rkazak> off by one is the human condition....
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<certainty> not using explicit loops helps a great deal though
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<certainty> it's much more natural to stop if there are no more elements, rather than stopping because the value of some index variable holds a value that happens to be interpreted as an index into my structure
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<myke> C++ finally has that
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<certainty> myke: you mean with iterators?
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<myke> iterators and the new for syntax
<myke> for(auto i: list)
<yarou> haha
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<jdjd> So, should I move away from my current job or stay at my current location? I hate location, but IT job transfer is possible and clean air. No social life though.
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<jdjd> VS.
<certainty> what's the new syntax? I've lost track since the old days. I used to be an early adopter of boost
<certainty> ah ok
<jdjd> leaving, no IT job, social life, but pollution.
<myke> certainty: it's all changed again, that's a C++11 thing there
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<jdjd> and risk of health issues and lose of job.
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<myke> however C++ now essentially has foreach
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<Mark_> if im going to dev something myself id probably use C#, its one of the best written language specs and frameworks there is
<Mark_> .NET that is, too bad mono isnt there yet
<Mark_> but ruby is good for a lot too :P
<myke> i've heard C# is good
<certainty> myke: i see. So no more std::for_each
<Mark_> well, im biased since i make money writing C#
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<Mark_> butttttttt, i definitely havent touched C++11 and i probably wont
<myke> certainty: nope, it's all been migrated into the core language
<Mark_> lol
<myke> Mark_: that's ok, you can wait for C++17
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<Mark_> honestly i still dont even feel right using namespaces in C++
<myke> why?
<Mark_> feels like i should just say fuck it and use a managed language, so i do, C#
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<myke> i like how php has namespaces now, until you call a function
<Mark_> cus when i learned most projects were mostly C with a taste of C++ here and there
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<Mark_> so im still used to that old way of writing C, not that whole C++.NET and msvc mess, and namespaces, and all that jazz
<Mark_> basically my C++ knowledge is stale
<jdjd> Ok, what should I do?
<myke> you should basically consider it a new language
<myke> it's all changed quite a bit
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<certainty> myke: i see. I read a blog post about std::future and how they slowly get where other languages long are :)
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<jdjd> Anyone?
<Mark_> yea but ruby and node are my new languages :P
<yarou> hey is C++ template instantiation NP-complete
<myke> i'm thinking of just throwing out my old C++ books, they're essentially history books now
<Mark_> if i ever need to get nitty gritty, itll be in C anyway
<Mark_> a la linux kernel or modules
<jdjd> Should I stay in city with no social life but opportunity to go into IT and get CS degree, or move away, risk losing job, get pollution, but have social life?
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<yarou> a social life? that's overrated
<myke> certainty: well, it's easy when you have a virtual machine style runtime like ruby, python, etc
<Mark_> jdjd, do what makes you happy
<certainty> yarou: i don't know. I know that the template language is turing complete though
<Mark_> otherwise whats the point
<myke> C++ is so hard because it still compiles to native code
<jdjd> Mark_: IDK which would make my happy.
<yarou> jdjd: i suggest using a prostitute
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<jdjd> If I stay, I can be happy in 2-3 years.
<Mark_> how would we know what would make you happy then, if you dont even know? :P
<jdjd> Easy.
<dtr> hookers and blow
<jdjd> If I leave, I can be happy soon, but may get sick.
<jdjd> Have issues wiht health again.
<arubin> People are quite bad at knowing what will make them happy.
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<jdjd> Lose job connections.
<Mark_> where do you live where pollution is such an issue
<Mark_> lol
<yarou> but make sure the prostitute doesn't have STDs
<jdjd> And lose chance to go into IT.
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<yarou> probably seattle
<yarou> LAWL
<Mark_> hes making it sound like beijing
<jdjd> Its a city in the top 10 of pollution.
<Mark_> lol
<jdjd> For USA.
<Mark_> vague much?
<jdjd> Yes.
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<yarou> actually detroit is one of the up and coming IT spots
<Mark_> well you're in the carolinas now
<jdjd> Phoenix.
<Mark_> i live in phoenix
<Mark_> lol @ pollution
<metamaterial> did they put the internet into guns, yarou?
<jdjd> IDK about that Mark_ lol at pollution.
<Mark_> its an upgrade
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<jdjd> Its dry as shit.
<Mark_> if you have the chance, ditch the east coast
<Mark_> yes i know
<jdjd> I want too.
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<jdjd> I hate the east coast.
<yarou> metamaterial: maybe
<Mark_> im from virginia
<Mark_> im telling you
<Mark_> its a whole new world
<jdjd> I lived out west.
<jdjd> I know.
<Mark_> sink or swim, its an adventure
<Mark_> oh rock on
<dtr> sf bay area here
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<jdjd> I went to college in Utah.
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<jdjd> I'm aware.
<Mark_> welllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
<Mark_> utah is utah
<Mark_> lol
<jdjd> SLC is western.
<jdjd> Rest of Utah sucks.
<Mark_> and mormon
<yarou> oh man, did you get a mormon prostitute
<jdjd> Outside Park City.
<Mark_> not that i have gripes with mormons, they make fucking awesome neighbors
<jdjd> Utah is Utah though, I know.
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<jdjd> I dont like Utah, it sucks.
<jdjd> I get it.
<jdjd> You dont need to tell me, I fucking lived there.
<Mark_> phoenix pollution is overrated
<jdjd> but its still western in that city somewhat.
<kies> matz is mormon
<Mark_> its called 'dust'
<Mark_> lol
<yarou> if i moved to japan i'd be mormon
<yarou> (no homo)
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<Mark_> and yes on hot, hot hot days, with not much air movement
<Mark_> youve got this dusty haze downtown
<Mark_> tires and traffic kicking it up
<jdjd> dusty haze=pollution.
<Mark_> but presumably you'd be making enough not to live in the concrete jungle
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<jdjd> That is what Utah calls it too.
<jdjd> They call it "fog".
<Mark_> i live in mesa
<Mark_> where the air is crisp
<Mark_> ^^
<yarou> gordon?
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<jdjd> I would live in Scottsdale.
<Mark_> rock on
<jdjd> North Scottsdale to be exact if I transfer.
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<Mark_> fake tits, real assholes
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<combusean> scottsdale fucking sucks!
<Mark_> godaddy is up there
<Mark_> and a few others
<Mark_> liquidweb maybe?
<jdjd> I am in finance industry.
<combusean> i escaped arizona to move to SF to find ruby work
<Mark_> amex is at 101/17
<yarou> jdjd: which 1?
<jdjd> I want to go into CS stuff.
<Mark_> chase is somewhere around too
<jdjd> I can get degree through this company.
<Mark_> and a bunch of other finance friends
<Mark_> ebay/paypal
<jdjd> But I have zero experience in IT.
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<jdjd> I will lose it if I move to AZ.
<Mark_> well, theres presumably some driving force behind the move
<Mark_> i.e. you fucking hate where you are
<dtr> i'm learning ruby for a new project at work
<jdjd> The IT department is out here for this company.
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<yarou> finance is a great industry
<jdjd> Yes, Mark_ I do.
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<yarou> it enriches the rich and
<yarou> ...
<Mark_> they just do it
<yarou> ?
<Mark_> then*
<jdjd> But I have an illness that may be effected by pollution that could also lead to me losing my job.
<Mark_> yea well
<Mark_> you could get hit by a car
<Mark_> or get valley fever
<yarou> at least you don't have alcoholism
<Mark_> or any number of things
<Mark_> adventures man
<jdjd> Or I coudl stya here.
<yarou> that's a major disease
<jdjd> have job security.
<jdjd> Get experience.
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<jdjd> And leave in 2-3 years.
<jdjd> at age 28.
<jdjd> or 29.
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<jdjd> And know life would be pretty good.
<Mark_> maricopa county is the size of the entire state of massachusetts
<Mark_> we have a fucking tent jail
<Mark_> its an awesome place to live man
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<jdjd> Mark_: Do you plan on housing me when I lose my job?
<jdjd> If not, that nice and all.
<Mark_> lol
<jdjd> Exactly.
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<Mark_> its not like the winters will kill you
<jdjd> Point made.
<Mark_> but the summers might ^.^
<yarou> the best IT place is new jersey
<yarou> who wouldn't want to live there
<Mark_> me telling you its an awesome place to live isnt any sort of encouragement, its an awesome place for me to live
<Mark_> i have no fuckin clue about you
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<Mark_> you sound kind of feeble and lack confidence
<Mark_> i like guns and horses and live on the fringe of the desert
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<Mark_> if a dust storm comes in i put on a bandana and watch it roll in
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<dtr> watch out everyone, we have a badass here
<Mark_> yea we do
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<Mark_> lightning mcqueen
<Mark_> lol
* combusean strongly discourages moving to arizona for ruby work
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<combusean> it's like 2006 over there
<Mark_> i dont think that dude even knows ruby
<Mark_> i think hes just in here bawing about life choices
<yarou> i'd love to move to arizona
<yarou> but i don't wanna be racially profiled
<yarou> :(
<Mark_> lol
<Mark_> are you black?
<combusean> AZ is ok if you want to kill your career
<combusean> heh
<yarou> they might beat me for looking at a white woman
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<Mark_> that whole 'arizona hates brown people' thing is retarded
<yarou> i'm pretty brown
<combusean> the people don't, the cops do tho Mark_
<yarou> but i'm incompetent
<yarou> :)
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<yarou> *i'm not incompetent
<dseitz> You could be the next Heisenburg if you move to AZ
<Mark_> everytime ive called the cops theres been a hispanic cop showing up too
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<Mark_> most of em are garcias and hernandezesesesesese
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<combusean> i've said my peace here
<Mark_> if you pulled people over for being brown we'd have endless traffic jams
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<combusean> i have nginx/bash nonsense to handle tonight. =)
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<Mark_> but if you're from scottsdale i get it :P
<yarou> i live in the jerz
<Mark_> outside of psc downtown i dont really hit up scottsdale too often :P
<Mark_> as for IT careers, well
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<Mark_> its basically bay area or nothing
<Mark_> phoenix isnt special in that regard
<yarou> i like the bay area
<yarou> no homo
<Mark_> lax or atlanta is just as much an 'it dead end' as phoenix
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<dtr> i live in berkeley and work in sf
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<combusean> dtr, I live and work in SF
<combusean> =)
<yarou> "it dead end" is subjective, Mark_
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<s2013> whats the easiest way to explain the diff between block and lambda
<s2013> proc*
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<s2013> one takes a block as an argument?
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<certainty> s2013: a block is a piece of syntax that will be reified as a proc object on interpretation
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<postmodern> what is the proper nomenclature for the thing that does RPC calls, Router? Dispatcher?
<tobago> is there a way to create instance methods dynamically using method_missing? https://gist.github.com/trinibago/11313723
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<misha_ae> Q
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<apeiros> R
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<misha_ae> =)
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<Hanmac> havenwood: try to install windowsXp on Porygon: https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/8160603392/h7819462C/
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<relix> hey guys, I'm using a gem that uses httparty to call some HTTPS urls
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<relix> I get the certificate verification failed error: OpenSSL::SSL::SSLError: SSL_connect returned=1 errno=0 state=SSLv3 read server certificate B: certificate verify failed
<relix> since I can't reach into the gem to fix the httparty calls, what's the best solution here?
<relix> is there a way to set httparty up by default with a cacert.pem?
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<alexherbo2> Hi
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<skinkitten> hello everyone. What is the betteer way of doing this ? : http://www.pasteall.org/51135/ruby
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<relix> skinkitten can you remove the codes on the left of lines 13-28
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<relix> thanks
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<Hanmac1> relix: log.group_by{|h|h[:time]}.map {|(_,v)| v.inject(:merge)}
<relix> skinkitten ^
<relix> Hanmac1 beat me to it :D
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<fly2web> hi
<fly2web> i want to hack wifi password? is it possible?
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<metamaterial> only if you can program it
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<skinkitten> Hanmac, where did you learn to do that?
<Hanmac> skinkitten: reading http://www.ruby-doc.org/core/Enumerable.html and other pages over and over again until the code comes bleeding out of my ears ;P
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<skinkitten> Hanmac, and then what?
<skinkitten> there's only one example of group_by there
<Hanmac> i might learned to program at school a bit and later in a job, but i mostly learned ruby by my self from documentation (and rmxp scripts ;P )
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<Hanmac> there is also #chunk log.chunk{|h|h[:time]}.map {|(_,v)| v.inject(:merge)} ... currently returns the same as group_by but its a bit more different
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<crome> Hanmac: normally its enough if you click on the whole highlighted shelf ;)
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<nerdman> hi all, how can i print arguments inside a method of def foo(*) ... end
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<Hanmac> nerdman: if you use (*) you omit variables, so you cant use them
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<jhass> nerdman: use def foo(*args)
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<banister> Hanmac let's fight
<nerdman> Hanmac: ah ok, that was a mystery to me, its now solved, thx
<nerdman> jhass: yup, split im familiar with, strange that google didnt help with * only
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<nerdman> "star" isnt prolly the correct search term though
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<apeiros> banister: hey, cool that you made `$ obj.foo` work for arbitrary C methods!
<banister> apeiros you mean 3rd C extensions?
<banister> 3rd party
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<Hanmac> apeiros: what does `$ obj.foo` show for you C methods?
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<shock_one> How to access all the keyword arguments if a method is declared like this: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/460ed5fcca9f80cac8ca
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<shock_one> *as a hash.
<Hanmac> **opts
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<shock_one> Thank you, Hanmac
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<apeiros> Hanmac: it shows me the C code
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<Hanmac> apeiros: also for 3rd party stuff?
<apeiros> yes
<apeiros> though… hm, now it doesn't
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<apeiros> ok, seems not all cases work, but example:
<Hanmac> totally interesting
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<shock_one> Hanmac, I think I didn't express myself clearly. I'm looking for some keyword to replace 'something' https://gist.github.com/anonymous/ff6bb3fdf7e7b3ca83fb
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<shock_one> Like options in JS.
<Hanmac> shock_one: not possible, you wanted key args, you got them ... otherwise try binding.local_variables
<timgauthier> guys can we just can the ruby today, its saturday c'mon!!!!
<timgauthier> :P
<shock_one> I wanted to provide default values in an obvious for a user way. But I think I'll go with #reverse_merge.
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<kilk_> whats deff between collent and map
<kilk_> diff
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<shevy> kilk_ they are aliases
<shevy> well, one is
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<shevy> lib/matrix.rb: alias map collect
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<_axx> Hello, i need to write a worker in ruby, that processes ~3500 jobs (https requests, ping requests etc) every minute or every five minutes. any idea on how to accomplish this, without to many problems? :)
<jhass> hm, I think I'd just use sidekiq
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<_axx> hm
<_axx> The problem i have, is that it seems like the tasks aren't getting finished fast enough, to be requeued
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<jhass> increase the concurrency and maybe add a second worker process?
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<jhass> if a single job really takes > n minutes and you want to queue a new one <= n minutes, you should reconsider the every n minutes requirement
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<jhass> (a new one doing the same thing)
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<apeiros> _axx: also profile and improve performance
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<_axx> yeah, that's my "problem". i currently run 50 threads that take jobs from a queue
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<_axx> another queue checks if a task needs to push to the queue again and pushes it
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<_axx> one of those 50 threads takes the tasks, saves the next queueing time
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<hrrz> how to count occurrences of hash's key in an array of hashes?
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<yvemath> Is there any opinionated suggesstion on How to go with learning RoR? I've already some experience with Python & Ruby, and build an application with Sinatra.
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<hrrz> yvemath: guides.rubyonrails.org is good
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<shevy> hrrz can you give minimal example
<shevy> I dont understand the sentence
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<shevy> there is always .select and .count with blocks
<hrrz> I have an array of hashes [ {node_id: 12, rank: 0 } ,{node_id: 12, rank: 0 }, {node_id: 13, rank: 0 } ] required output: [ {node_id: 12, rank: 2 }, {node_id: 13, rank:1 } ]
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<hrrz> shevy: any idea?
<kilk_> group_by(node_id).map {|k,v| [k , v.length]}
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<havenn> hrrz: whatcha trying to count?
<hrrz> ids
<shevy> I think he wants to count the symbol :node_id
<hrrz> yes
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<havenn> hrrz: .count { |h| h[:node_id] }
<havenn> shevy: count with block! count with blocks!
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<shevy> hehehe
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<havenn> hrrz: oh, i just got what you want (require output) >.>
<hrrz> huh?
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<havenn> you want a new array with :rank set to total number of :node_id of a certain number?
<havenn> a new array of hashes?
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<hrrz> :rank set to number of occurrences of :node_id in the original array
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<hrrz> havenn: ?
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<havenn> hrrz: like kilk_'s response, #group_by is one way of solving.
<havenn> >> [{node_id: 12, rank: 0} ,{node_id: 12, rank: 0}, {node_id: 13, rank: 0}].group_by { |h| h[:node_id] }.map { |k, v| {node_id: k, rank: v.size} }
<eval-in> havenn => [{:node_id=>12, :rank=>2}, {:node_id=>13, :rank=>1}] (https://eval.in/142499)
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<hrrz> thanks
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<hrrz> havenwood: how do i run this code with incrementing the value :rank and not reset it with v.size ?
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<havenwood> hrrz: well, you're setting it to the #size or the number of that :node_id
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<havenwood> hrrz: not sure what you're wanting
<hrrz> yea but if i have already value in :rank (let's say {rank: 2}) and so I just want to increment the result, not re-set it with v.size
<hrrz> i.e rank += v.size
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<hrrz> havenwood: understand?
<havenwood> hrrz: { |h| you_hash[h[:node_id]] += 1 }
<havenwood> your_hash*
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<havenwood> hrr, oh hrrz is gone :P
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<mordof> good morning-ish everyone :)
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<shevy> die
<shevy> I mean
<shevy> hi
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<mordof> shevy: :p
<setient> same thing.
<setient> keys are like right next to each other
<mordof> mhmm
<shevy> yeah
<shevy> and my cat is also typing sometimes
<shevy> like trgfklj
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<apeiros> shock_one: works for me
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<Fire-Dragon-DoL> oh please make me a plugin to use ruby instead of javascript
<Fire-Dragon-DoL> sigh
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<apeiros> Fire-Dragon-DoL: google opal
<Fire-Dragon-DoL> apeiros: I know what opal is, but it's far from usable as a real "javascript replacement" :\
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<shevy> Fire-Dragon-DoL I think javascript won't allow alternatives
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<shevy> most projects on github are in javascript, ruby comes second :(
<havenwood> Fire-Dragon-DoL: do you consider CoffeeScript usable as a rails js replacement?
<havenwood> real*
<havenwood> Fire-Dragon-DoL: What can't Opal do?
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<mordof> hmm
<mordof> is ruby faster than js?
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<mordof> has anyone done benchmarks. js is pretty fast - as much as i'd like to see something like ruby step into the browser scope like that, i'd hate for it to be a slower language that does so
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<crome> wut
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<havenwood> mordof: Opal and CoffeeScript compile to JavaScript.
<apeiros> mordof: with the recent improvements of JS; I'd assume JS to be faster
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<havenwood> mordof: Also Ruby isn't slow compared to JavaScript.
* mordof nods
<apeiros> JS is probably also easier to optimize. it's much simpler on a language level.
<havenwood> faster for an event loop
<shock_one> apeiros, it turned out that autoload_paths doesn't work for monkey patches. Thank you.
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<apeiros> shock_one: you need class_eval/module_eval for that, yes
<apeiros> though, that still won't work
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<shock_one> apeiros, no way, I just created an initializer which requires that file.
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* havenwood bemoans that Clojure didn't take JavaScript's place in the browsers.
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<havenwood> shevy: every time JS is #1 a fairy loses its wings :(
<mordof> lol
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<shock_one> havenwood, do you use structural editing? I refused it for long time, but after learning shortcuts can't live without it.
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<mordof> i haven't been dealing with ruby very long... but js has been my main language for quite some time xD we'll see how learning ruby and working with it influences that
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<Fire-Dragon-DoL> havenwood: I'm using coffeescript, Opal don't support entire ruby syntax obviously
<shock_one> mordof, you'll suffer from the fact the there is no HOF, I promise you.
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<Fire-Dragon-DoL> havenwood: sorry not "ruby syntax", I mean entire ruby std lib
<mordof> shock_one: HOF?
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<Fire-Dragon-DoL> havenwood: but I'll wait, Opal it's one of my hope for the future :P
<havenwood> shock_one: i do use some TM2 Ruby shortcuts, but no i've not really used any proper structural editor
<havenwood> Fire-Dragon-DoL: It does look neat! I am curious if the current subset is enough for serious work but i haven't tried.
<shock_one> mordof, higher order functions.
<havenwood> Fire-Dragon-DoL: CoffeeScript seems quite expressive.
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<mordof> shock_one: can you show an example?
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<shock_one> havenwood, I mean for Clojure. There is Cursive for IntellijIdea.
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<shock_one> mordof, Haskell: map reverse ["abc","cda","1234"] => ["cba","adc","4321"]. The first argument to map is a function.
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<Fire-Dragon-DoL> havenwood: yea it is, I can't live without it, plain javascript is not something I like so much :P also, I really miss rspec, jasmine is not as good as rspec! (it tries too, but far from it, probably it's javascript limitation)
<havenwood> shock_one: oh nice, i use LightTable with Clojure but i should check it out!
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<mordof> shock_one: i don't know haskell all that well - lol. is that the same in ruby?
<shock_one> havenwood, It's the most useful thing for AST languages ever!
<shock_one> mordof, there is no HOF in Ruby. The basic idea is that you can pass functions into other functions and return functions from functions.
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<mordof> shock_one: js being my primary language - i'm not seeing much difference. since I didn't use Haskell all that much, i guess i'm not missing anything? heh
<workmad3> shock_one: you can do that in ruby through the use of procs and lambdas
<jwdunne> Hi I was just wondering if anyone can help. I've installed ruby 2.1.1 using rvm. I cannot install mysql2 nor sqlite3 because it can't build native gem, which I'm assuming is to do with dev headers. Odd thing is these gems install fine for rubies < 2.0 so I'm v. confused!
<shock_one> mordof, well, you use function expressions in JS, don't you?
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<shock_one> workmad3, of course, but I don't because it looks ugly.
<jwdunne> Also, I think you miss much from Haskell in Javascript!
<workmad3> shock_one: so you never do 'ary.each {|i| i.do_stuff}'? :)
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<shock_one> workmad3, sorry, I meant separate Proc objects.
<mordof> shock_one: yeah, quite regularly
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<havenwood> jwdunne: You probably need to install build tools. What OS/distro?
<shock_one> mordof, then you used higher order functions, even if you didn't know how it's called.
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<workmad3> shock_one: right... so you don't regularly pass around explicit procs... but you pass them around implicitly all the time
<mordof> shock_one: ah, alright. terminology was never one of my strong suits, heh
<jwdunne> havenwood: os x. odd thing is that this limited to only ruby 2+, these gems are working fine in versions less than 2!
<workmad3> shock_one: I guess my objection was your claim 'there is no HOF in Ruby.' when what you probably meant was 'HOFs aren't used much in ruby because the syntax can be a bit clunky'
<havenwood> jwdunne: ah, so you've already installed XCode and Command Line Tools?
<Fire-Dragon-DoL> jwdunne: uhm I have ruby 2.0 and it's working fine on my O.S., you probably miss some packages. What OS?
<Fire-Dragon-DoL> jwdunne: oh sorry, os x
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<shock_one> workmad3, let's compare it to Clojure: (map inc ary). I changed each to map since each isn't a pure funcion, which is considered bad style. Don't you agree that it's a nicer syntax?
<jwdunne> havenwood: I did a while ago. I just installed 1.9.3 and installed these gems.
<workmad3> shock_one: sure... for functional programming, but ruby isn't primarily a functional language, it's primarily an OO language
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<workmad3> shock_one: and as I said, your statement was that ruby *had no* HOFs, which is wrong ;)
<shock_one> workmad3, I claim that there is no higher order functions in Ruby.
<shock_one> Procs aren't functions.
<mordof> indeed.. i was just going to mention
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<mordof> Procs seem to behave somewhat similarly, but don't feel like normal functions - they're just blocks separated that can be paired differently right?
<workmad3> shock_one: procs are anonymous methods
<workmad3> shock_one: and you can get actual method objects if you want too... 'a = some_obj.method(:foo)' and then pass that around, wrap it up in something else, etc.
<shock_one> workmad3, or callable objects, functors in C++ terminology. HOF is a different concept.
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<workmad3> shock_one: a HOF is the idea of a method that returns another method...
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<workmad3> shock_one: e.g. Proc#curry
<jwdunne> and also takes functions. one or the other.
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<jwdunne> or both
<havenwood> jwdunne: make sure you've got latest xcode and build tools: xcodebuild -version
<havenwood> jwdunne: 5.1.1
<workmad3> jwdunne: well, methods that take methods as arguments are pretty common in ruby (if you allow that a 'callable' is the ruby abstraction of a method)
<havenwood> jwdunne: and version 2333 for: xcode-select -v
<jwdunne> workmad3: but a function that takes a function or a function that returns a function is a higher-order function.
<workmad3> jwdunne: right... and you can do that in ruby... it's just not common
<jwdunne> workmad3: hence, fuby features HOF :)
<jwdunne> *ruby
<workmad3> jwdunne: shock_one's claim is that ruby has no HOF :)
<mordof> there is a Ruby example in the wikipedia HOF page
<jwdunne> workmad3: which I refute!
<workmad3> jwdunne: I was also refuting it ;)
<havenwood> jwdunne: if not latest, update XCode then xcode-select --install
<jwdunne> workmad3: I was supporting!
<workmad3> :D
<mordof> lol
<havenwood> jwdunne: newer Ruby requires newer GCC
<workmad3> jwdunne: are we in violent agreement now? :)
<jwdunne> workmad3: yes hahaha
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<jwdunne> havenwood: I have Xcode 3.2.6 so that's where the problem is I think
<shock_one> jwdunne, workmad3 I agree that Procs are a similar concept, but it's not HOF, come on. If I define a top level function I can't pass it around as a regular object.
<workmad3> shock_one: yes you can
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<workmad3> >> def foobar; end; a = method(:foobar); puts a
<eval-in> workmad3 => #<Method: Object#foobar> ... (https://eval.in/142512)
<mordof> >> test = ->(x){ x * 2 }; print test.call()
<eval-in> mordof => wrong number of arguments (0 for 1) (ArgumentError) ... (https://eval.in/142513)
<mordof> hm
<mordof> whoops
<mordof> >> test = ->(x){ x * 2 }; print test.call(3)
<eval-in> mordof => 6nil (https://eval.in/142514)
<workmad3> >> def foobar; puts "hi"; end; a = method(:foobar); a.call
<eval-in> workmad3 => hi ... (https://eval.in/142515)
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<shock_one> mordof, you don't define functions with ->
<mordof> shock_one: i was just going based off the wikipedia example
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<workmad3> shock_one: -> is a stabby lambda in ruby 1.9+
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<workmad3> shock_one: now, strictly speaking, ruby doesn't have *functions*, it only has methods... so in that regard, you could be pedantic and claim that ruby has higher-order methods, not higher-order functions... but that's getting somewhat petty :)
<jwdunne> shock_one: the fact Ruby doesn't make it easy to pass around defined functions doesn't stop functions that accept functions and functions that return functions from being HOF.
<workmad3> shock_one: the ideas underlying HOFs are transferrable to ruby, just the syntax is a bit clunky at times, especially regarding a function that returns another function
<shock_one> I was wrong.
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<jwdunne> In Scheme/JS the language was designed for this hence it's easy to write HOF functions that fit with the language. I think how Ruby handles HOF is due to the marriage of smalltalk and scheme - smalltalk wears the pants.
<shevy> why did smalltalk fail
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<workmad3> jwdunne: there's also an aspect of the syntax flexibility getting in the way... in JS, you can pass the function around by doing 'my_thing.foo' while in ruby that would count as a method call... coffeescript hit the same problem, but went the other way to fit in closer to the underlying JS so 'my_thing.foo' is getting the foo function object, while 'my_think.foo some_arg' is calling the method
<shock_one> I think the syntax is clumsy because they didn't manage to write a parser that would distinct niladic method call from method invocation.
<workmad3> but in languages where () are always needed to call a function/method, the ambiguity doesn't exist
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<shock_one> workmad3, in Haskell functions are called without parentheses, but they have types.
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<shock_one> Even thought I'm not sure types are necessary in this case.
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<workmad3> shock_one: I'm not sure a parser could exist for ruby's syntax that could distinguish between 'foo.bar' being 'pass the method foo.bar' in one context and 'call the method foo.bar and pass the result' in another...
<workmad3> shock_one: it would need to always be one or the other... ruby went for that always being a method call, allowing you to drop the ()
<workmad3> shock_one: but that's ok for ruby, because ruby is primarily an OO language, so calling methods on objects (or passing messages to objects, in more smalltalk parlance) takes primacy over passing functions/methods around
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<workmad3> shock_one: 1. how about niladic functions?
<shock_one> workmad3, at least we have a convenience of automatic conversion of symbols to procs.
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<workmad3> shock_one: 2. haskell is primarily a functional language, so different choices on syntax come to the fore
<shock_one> Primarily?
<shock_one> So, it's also something else?
<workmad3> shock_one: I kinda hold the view that just about any general purpose language could be used with a different paradigm if you were so inclined ;)
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<workmad3> shock_one: but yes, your point is correct... I should have said 'haskell is a functional language' in that case, not primarily
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<shock_one> workmad3, actually there is a function in Haskell that allows you to call functions as methods. I forgot its name, thoug.
<workmad3> shock_one: and it's not a convenience of 'automatic conversion of symbols to procs'... it's that 'obj.meth(&anything)' calls .to_proc on anything and passes it as the block/proc argument... and then Symbol has a clever to_proc method :)
<shock_one> workmad3, yes, I know.
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<shock_one> I would be happy if there was a similar way of calling a function with the block argument passed as the first argument.
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<shock_one> To be clear like in JS array.forEach(foo), where foo takes one argument.
<shevy> do you guys often use the new symbol syntax in a hash? { foo: true } ?
<shock_one> shevy, always.
<iamayam> indeed
<workmad3> shock_one: fairly often nowadays... too much time spent writing JS
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<shock_one> workmad3, I wouldn't say that. I just mentioned JS as the language everybody knows.
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<workmad3> shock_one: sorry, that was meant to be directed at shevy :)
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<workmad3> shock_one: regarding '{foo: bar}' hash syntax :)
<shevy> hey
<shevy> my nick does not have a _
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<workmad3> shevy: :P
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<shevy_> ok there we go
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<shevy_> and how about the stabby proc ->
<shevy_> do you use that one often?
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<shock_one> shevy_, does it mean that there will be a modal window if I click on your nick?
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<shevy_> shock_one no but something fancy happens when you click my nick
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<shock_one> shevy_, also always. And even rewrite lambda whenever I see it.
<workmad3> shevy_: sometimes... if I'm passing a proc inline (such as defining a scope with 'scope' in rails) I'll use ->... but I dislike it having args after the -> rather than before :(
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<shevy_> hmm
<workmad3> shevy_: I put that one down to too much coffee (script) :)
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<shock_one> workmad3, yeah, arguments before the arrow look logical. Like (input) -> { output }
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<workmad3> shock_one: it get's annoying... if I've gone ruby -> coffeescript, I write '->(input) ...' then go 'oh crap' and fix... and then the opposite when going back :)
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<shock_one> workmad3, are you trying to add end in coffeescript?
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<workmad3> shock_one: no... but that's because I rarely have to explicitly write it in ruby :)
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<workmad3> shock_one: my vim is set up so that I write 'def foo', hit return and get the end... same with model, class, do/end and if/end regions :)
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<shock_one> Mmm, vim. Good choice.
<workmad3> ssh, don't let shevy_ hear that ;)
<shevy_> well it's better than no editor
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<shock_one> is he more like e-word guy?
<benzrf> vim woot woot
<shevy> what is e-word
<shock_one> emacs.
<shevy> when you mentioned both vim and emacs only one thing is for certain
<shevy> there are two big losers
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<jwdunne> Oh god here we go
<shock_one> What's The Right Editor, shevy?
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<setient> vim or emacs
<shevy> shock_one unfortunately there is none. one would have to combine a set of useful features found in different editors
<workmad3> jwdunne: it's ok... I drag shevy into this and now I'm running off :)
<shevy> I don't have a problem with this at all
<setient> shevy emacs and vim can literally do anything.
<benzrf> no thats emacs
<shevy> setient hey can I program in them
<setient> no
<mordof> i'm just gonna use notepad and be done with it
<workmad3> 'emacs... it's got a plugin for everything... except a decent text editor'
<mordof> lol
<benzrf> and whether or not vim *can* do literally anything
<benzrf> it shouldnt
<setient> what workmad3 said
<benzrf> i like vim because vim is a text editor
<mordof> so many opinions in this channel
<benzrf> not because it is a text editor and a shell and a file manager and a debugger and a repl
<setient> ya
<benzrf> unix woo
<setient> lets all use ed
<mordof> hey guys - can we not do this conversation again?
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<shevy> vim is a keyboard stroker primarily
<benzrf> setient: why
<mordof> lasted 3 hours last night
<setient> its the best
<workmad3> right, time for food... have fun with the text editor bikeshed ;)
<mordof> i'd rather discuss ruby
<benzrf> setient: it's not as good for editing as vim
<setient> ok
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<jwdunne> It's funny because I'm using emacs IRC client
<workmad3> mordof: compile your vim with ruby support... then you can discuss vim and ruby together? :D
<shevy> emacs is a pretty solid OS
<setient> i could make a funny
<mordof> workmad3: ST with ruby build support. done, heh
<shevy> you don't dare to make a funny
* mordof doesn't care what OS, or Editor, people want to use.
<workmad3> setient: 'linux... the most popular bootloader for emacs'?
<benzrf> mordof: the vim-gtk package on debian-likes has ruby support in the cmdline version
<setient> you know why dont you reinvent the wheel with a text editor written in ruby
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<shevy> ugh, debian
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<benzrf> debian is fun
<setient> like homebrew
<shevy> debian is for people who fail at compiling
<setient> but for text
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<setient> and linux is for the peiple who fail unix
<setient> lolol
<shevy> homebrew is a nice idea except that it is so mac centric :(
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<shevy> setient can you tell me where unix is used heavily today
<setient> have you seen netbsds pkgsrc
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<setient> shevy on your macbook
<setient> osx is actually inix and linux is just a clone
<shevy> why would I use a mac
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<setient> bsd is more unix like
<shevy> the bsd folks also fail at compiling
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<setient> pfft
<setient> pkgsrc
<setient> ports
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<setient> both completely from source
<shevy> made available by other people for them
<shevy> that's 100% the same as what distributions do
<setient> you ever try lfs
<shevy> sure
<setient> do you use it daily
<shevy> no, I don't adhere to the lfs in the slightest
<setient> then you suck at compiling
<shevy> gobolinux sold me on appdirs
<setient> lol
<shevy> setient a moment, let me output my current source archive, will take some minutes though
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<setient> i remember this
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<setient> fyi lxc is a better idea
<setient> or fbsd jails
<shevy> I have to adapt a ruby script quickly for it, it only gave out a collection of all tags (i.e. ruby tag, gnome tag, python tag) before
<setient> or solaris zones but on the per app level
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<setient> and really you can do the same with ojgsrc
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<setient> pkgsr or ports just set different base dirs per install of an app
<setient> with a different package db per basedir
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<shevy> damn it
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<imkmf> /join #emberjs
<imkmf> FAIL!
<imkmf> D:
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<shevy> setient, please excuse the text-fail and no formatting there, I didn't debug the output, next iteration will be sane though but the dataset is as-is -> https://gist.githubusercontent.com/shevegen/11326918/raw/62fc02ec12f540e7502109cbb7463ec90d58e958/gistfile1.txt
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<shevy> these are the ones I found and registered so far (minus those with the missing URLs... years ago I didn't bother to collect the URL)
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<s2013> anyone has some friendly intro to ruby metaprogramming? preferably a video
<BradPitt_> s2013 RubyMonk has a decent section on it
<BradPitt_> pretty gentle intro
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<s2013> thanks ill check it out
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<orbisvicis> how do I uninstall ruby 1.9.1 from /usr/local. Is there a make target, or a list of installed files ?
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<shevy> orbisvicis depends how you installed it
<shevy> if you compiled from source yourself, "make uninstall" from that directory would work
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<shevy> you can also do manual cleanup
<shevy> it would be in /usr/local/lib/ruby
<shevy> and the "binaries" should be: ruby irb ri rdoc
<shevy> hmm possibly one or two more
<shevy> gem
<shevy> yeah
<orbisvicis> shevy: I installed via autotools (makefile). I would do manual cleanup, but I need a list of files installed in the first place (/usr/local/bin,/usr/lib/lib/ruby,/usr/local/share/..., etc)
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<orbisvicis> shevy: no make uninstall target
<shevy> huh
<shevy> let me try
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<orbisvicis> shevy: 1.9.1
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<shevy> ok into share/ I see 3 dirs, doc/ man/ ri/
<shevy> orbisvicis /usr/lib/lib definitely is incorrect, how did you come to that?
<shevy> or perhaps you meant /usr/local/lib ?
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<orbisvicis> shevy: yes
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<orbisvicis> shevy: also, from ruby-forums, "1.9ish installs left a hidden file in the root directory indicating all
<orbisvicis> installed files.". Which file is this ?
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<orbisvicis> shevy: ah.. found it
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<orbisvicis> just need similar list for rubygems
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<IceDragon> Hey any GCC experts here, how do I include a file without preprocessing it?
<IceDragon> #include "es.i"
<IceDragon> wait a minute
<IceDragon> D8 This is #ruby
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<drakedouay> When I modify one element in an array I end up modifying all of them. This is my code: a = [[0,0]] * 5 a[0][1] = 4 for some reason this sets a to [0,4]*5
<drakedouay> what am i doing wrong?
<alpha123> drakedouay: * doesn't deep copy the array
<drakedouay> how do i do that? alpha123
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<jhass> a = Array.new(5) { [0, 4] }
<jhass> or 0,5 or whatever
<alpha123> jhass: That's... actually really cool, I didn't know Array.new could take a block.
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<drakedouay> jhass: awesome, thanks
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<GrooveStomp> Hi everyone, I've got a question about a bug that's open for jruby: https://github.com/jruby/jruby/issues/1647
<GrooveStomp> When I run a local test in MRI 1.9.3 I am seeing the same behavior. It doesn't seem correct, but I want to verify. (Going to check the issue list now.)
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<GrooveStomp> Hmm. Where's the Ruby issue tracker? (Not on Github, clearly.)
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<GrooveStomp> bugs.ruby-lang.org it appears.
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<jheg_> o/
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<havenwood> GrooveStomp: that is 2.0+ behavior
<havenwood> GrooveStomp: ought fail on 1.9
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<havenwood> GrooveStomp: works in 2.0 and 2.1
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<apeiros> havenwood: quoi?
<apeiros> ah, lol. backlog
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<havenwood> :P
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<jheg_> I'm kind of new to ruby ... well not kind of I actually am
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<jheg_> I've just tried to install rails in terminal and I thought it had installed but when I type rails --help it says it is not installed
<jheg_> I ran sudo gem install rails and it did its thing for a while
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<havenwood> jheg_: what OS/distro? the rails channel is #rubyonrails by the way.
<jheg_> I got a few ...
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<jheg_> ah OK thanks havenwood I'll check post there
<havenwood> jheg_: but which are you having this issue on?
<Nowaker> tobiasvl: people do use python for writing gui apps. maybe because python has better bindings to various gui libs like kde/qt? dont know.
<jheg_> I'm on OSX 10.9.2
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<shevy> Nowaker yeah and they have more devs, and python is easier to write interfaces to too
<havenwood> jheg_: my guess would be that you're using brew ruby not system and you haven't put your gem bin dir in the PATH
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<havenwood> jheg_: does it start working if you?: export PATH="$(brew --prefix ruby)/bin:$PATH"
<jheg_> ruby was pre installed afaik
<havenwood> jheg_: which ruby
<havenwood> jheg_: what do you get for that ^ cmd?
<jheg_> ruby 2
<havenwood> jheg_: where was it though?
<jheg_> jheg/.rvm/rubies/ruby-2.0.0-p353/bin/ruby
<shevy> jheg_ come on man, be courageous
<havenwood> so you're using rvm
<havenwood> jheg_: #rvm is the RVM channel by the way
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<havenwood> jheg_: i'd probably then start with updating RVM: rvm get latest
<havenwood> jheg_: then read up on RVM basics, select the Ruby you want, and you're off!
<shevy> or!
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<shevy> use the source!!!
<havenwood> jheg_: also, i worry you've done a system install instead of user install of RVM, dunno
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<havenwood> shevy: ruby-install you fiend!
<havenwood> shevy: :P
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<havenwood> shevy: i need to remember -j8 with make..., really a nice speedup
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<jheg_> thanks for the help havenwood
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<havenwood> jheg_: but it is a good idea to just go to Ruby 2.1.1 now that you have the chance. if you want to go the RVM route you might even want to `rvm implode` then install Ruby 2.1.1 with a fresh RVM.
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<havenwood> (`rvm implode` destroys RVM so you can install from scratch)
<jheg_> So if i run dvm implode ...
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<jheg_> I'll then need to reinstall ruby from terminal ?
<popl> havenwood: are you sure -j is for make?
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<havenwood> popl: -j, --jobs: http://linux.die.net/man/1/make
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<havenwood> popl: ruby-install also has a -j option, passes it through to make
<popl> yeah, that's right. I remember reading a joke about that
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<havenwood> popl: without an arg it uses an unlimited number of parallel jobs
<havenwood> without the option, uses 1
<popl> I could swear I just searchedf or it in the documentation unsuccessfully. oh well. thanks, havenwood.
<havenwood> jheg_: yeah, then you either reinstall RVM from its install script or switch off RVM to a different switcher, or not use a switcher at all.
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<jheg_> once thats done you think the rails install should work?
<havenwood> jheg_: I use ruby-install/chruby. If you only need one Ruby, might as well use Brew or system Ruby.
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<havenwood> jheg_: yes
<havenwood> jheg_: you just need to get at least one Ruby properly setup
<jheg_> Thanks i'll give it go
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<havenwood> jheg_: so `rvm implode` and then: \curl -sSL https://get.rvm.io | bash -s stable
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<havenwood> or actually, there should be a script to go ahead and get latest and install ruby 2.1.1, sec
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<havenwood> jheg_: \curl -sSL https://get.rvm.io | bash -s latest --rails
<jheg_> thanks
<havenwood> jheg_: ^ for latest RVM, stable Ruby and Rails
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<jheg_> before I do do i need to man remove .rvm?
<havenwood> i would
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<Nowaker> shevy: how exactly is easier to write interfaces?
<Nowaker> shevy: given the fact that ruby is way more expressive, i dont know how python could be better
<Nowaker> shevy: of course its better because of the toolkit available
<havenwood> Nowaker: i think he just means bindings
<shevy> yeah
<shevy> you don't have to cope with a million ways to do something
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<Nowaker> okay, better bindings, right
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<shevy> I think in ruby-qt or was it in ruby gnome, they wanted to alias both camelcase and non-camelcase
<havenwood> Nowaker: there's always JRuby with SWIG :P
<shevy> so like you could then call the bindings foo.makeLove
<shevy> so like you could then call the bindings foo.make_love
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<shevy> hmm, echo ;)
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<havenwood> Nowaker: shoes4 is still in development but is fun to play with: https://github.com/shoes/shoes4#readme
<shevy> depends on java
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<Nowaker> havenwood: thanks. if i ever need to write some desktop gui i will use it. ...but i doubt i will ever need ;)
<Nowaker> shevy: more people have java installed than ruby, no?
<shevy> Nowaker no idea, I dont for instance
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<shevy> the original shoes neither dependend on java, so this project is no longer shoes really
<Nowaker> im fine with it, i code in what i like, and the app runs on java which almost everyone has installed, so its great
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<jheg_> OK havenwood ran the installer following implode and I get
<jheg_> Requirements installation failed with status: 1.
<havenwood> shevy: one of the goals of shoes4 is to separate the DSL from the gfx implmentation. the reference implmementation of shoes4 is JRuby SWT but they've mentioned Qt and GTK for the future
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<havenwood> shevy: it *is* the future of shoes! \o/
<havenwood> shevy: if it succeeds, it could change things
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<havenwood> jheg_: i dunno what that means in RVM land. did RVM install?
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<havenwood> jheg_: does the command `rvm` do anything?
<jheg_> yep looks like that installed
<havenwood> jheg_: if so: rvm list
<havenwood> jheg_: did any Rubies install?
<jheg_> rvm rubies ...
<havenwood> jheg_: any listed?
<jheg_> ruby-2.0.0-p353 [ missing bin/ruby ]
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<havenwood> jheg_: rvm remove ruby-2.0.0-p353
<havenwood> jheg_: rvm install ruby-2.1.1
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<jheg_> looking good so far ...
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<jheg_> dvm list again?
<jheg_> *rvm
<jheg_> rvm rubies
<jheg_> ruby-2.0.0-p353 [ missing bin/ruby ]
<jheg_> ruby-2.1.1 [ x86_64 ]
<havenwood> jheg_: rvm --default use ruby-2.1.1
<havenwood> jheg_: rvm cleanup all
<havenwood> jheg_: gem update --system
<havenwood> jheg_: gem install rails
<havenwood> jheg_: (no sudo!)
<jheg_> dvm --default use ruby-2.1.1 didn't work says RVM is not a function so ...
<havenwood> rvm?
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<jheg_> rvm alias create default ruby-2.1.1
<jheg_> seemed to do it?
<jheg_> type
<jheg_> rvm
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<jheg_> I now have this ...
<jheg_> rvm rubies
<jheg_> ruby-2.0.0-p353 [ missing bin/ruby ]
<jheg_> =* ruby-2.1.1 [ x86_64 ]
<havenwood> jheg_: been a long time since i've used RVM, commands may have changed
<jheg_> I'll run those other commands now thanks for this man!
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<jheg_> the last one (no sudo!)?
<havenwood> jheg_: none with sudo
<jheg_> cool
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<jheg_> I get a file permission message when trying to run gem update --system
<havenwood> jheg_: sudo gem update --system
<havenwood> jheg_: oops :P
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<jheg_> :)
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<havenwood> jheg_: though i think there's an rvm command to fix permissions, hrm
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<havenwood> jheg_: rvm fix-permissions
<jheg_> need to run sudo on rails install to yeah?
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<havenwood> jheg_: no
<havenwood> jheg_: don't use sudo, fix the permissions
<jheg_> shit too late
<jheg_> that bad?
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<havenwood> jheg_: not sure what all `rvm fix-permissions` does but i'd run that if not also `sudo chown -R $USER: $HOME/.rvm`
<havenwood> jheg_: i'm not sure what you're `sudo gem` is at the moment >.>
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<havenwood> jheg_: but just fix permissions and do a regular: gem install rails
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<havenwood> s/you're/your
<havenwood> i need more caffeine, brb
<jheg_> same
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<jheg_> thanks for this help it's very kind of you
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<rkazak> is rvm delivered as part of Mavericks?
<benzrf> rvm is bloat
<benzrf> use ruby-install & chruby
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<havenwood> rkazak: nope, no version manager ships with OS X
<benzrf> im TOTALLY qualified to say so, give that ive definitely used both
* benzrf coughs
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<rkazak> k thanks.
<havenwood> i may be biased :P
* havenwood coughs *chruby*
<havenwood> \o/
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<crucify_me> http://pastie.org/9115704 hi what does the body of this block do?
<havenwood> crucify_me: by convention the `|i|` should be on the line 3
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<crucify_me> oh sorry
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<alpha123> benzrf: How do you feel about chruby vs rbenv?
<benzrf> havent used rbenv tbh :P
<benzrf> im eminently unqualified
<popl> I'm using rbenv. I haven't had any problems.
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<benzrf> all i know is that ruby-install and chruby have worked p well for me
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<alpha123> Ah. I'm pretty fond of rbenv but haven't use chruby xP
<benzrf> theyre dead simple
<benzrf> ruby-install you call w/ a ruby version and it installs it
<havenwood> alpha123: i prefer chruby for its simplicity and flexibility, plus never having to reshim
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<benzrf> chruby you call with a version and it switches your current shell to that version
<benzrf> easy as shit
<alpha123> havenwood: I rather like the .ruby-version functionality of rbenv, though to be honest I don't maintain many Ruby projects and keep them all on the latest version anyway.
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<benzrf> alpha123: you can probably accomplish that through other means
<benzrf> no need for your switcher to have that functionality
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<havenwood> alpha123: chruby supports .ruby-version
<benzrf> ~unix philosophy~
<benzrf> :Y
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<alpha123> havenwood: It does? Cool. Not having to reshim is nice, maybe I'll switch.
<havenwood> alpha123: you just optionally source `chruby/auto.sh`: https://github.com/postmodern/chruby/blob/master/share/chruby/auto.sh
<alpha123> I very rarely change rubies anyway though
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<alpha123> Do either of them work with the fish shell?
<havenwood> alpha123: rbenv does but for chruby (due to tests, etc) the fish project is chruby-fish
<crucify_me> havenwood: sorry pastie is down : https://gist.github.com/anonymous/11332027
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<alpha123> fish is the only shell that I actually don't hate
<havenwood> crucify_me: that code is a bit odd, since `loop_of_3` is an array you're calling Array#[] on line 4, then setting the index of the result of modulo 3 to i.
<havenwood> crucify_me: what is being done doesn't make sense
<alpha123> Cool, thanks havenwood
<mordof> how would i add a method to an array? like [].each is already there - how can i add my own (and is this considered "bad practice"?)
<crucify_me> havenwood: apparently this is something used in graphics that is key.
<crucify_me> << noob
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<havenwood> mordof: you can `class Array; def new_stuff end end` (called monkey patching or freedom patching)
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<mordof> havenwood: heh, alright - and is this considered an acceptable practice?
<havenwood> mordof: or refinements if you're using Ruby 2.0+ allow you to namespace your patch
<havenwood> mordof: it is quite frowned upon to monkeypatch core classes
<mordof> figured
<mordof> ooh so that changes it without messing up everything else
<havenwood> mordof: yes, scoped to the current file and just the class `using` the refinement
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<mordof> alright, cool
<havenwood> mordof: so `refine` Array instead of monkey patching it :)
<mordof> thanks very much for that added info ^_^
<ddd> yeah, havenwood. best explanation yet.
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<crucify_me> havenwood: that modulo problem was given to me with this one: http://pastie.org/9114000 so map and each yield different results, but I don't get that [i%3] = i part
<mordof> still working on the modulo :)
<rkazak> please what is monkey patchng?
<crucify_me> mordof: yeah just overwhelmed ..!
<rkazak> is that the same as greasemonkey…
<mordof> rkazak: strapping something on haphazardly
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<rkazak> ok… no relation to the extension then...
<mordof> rkazak: no
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<rkazak> more monkeying around with ruby… :)
<mordof> rkazak: essentially what you're doing when you "monkey patch" something, is you just throw it onto the container and be done with it - however as havenwood pointed out, it can break things in other places.. and cause unexpected results
<rkazak> thanks for the explaination.
<mordof> so restricting it to a refinement in a particular scope, you reduce the risk of unexpected problems, because the person using it will be including the scope and, hopefully, expecting the modifications you included
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<mordof> no problem :)
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<ddd> for some reason the scoping levels are a bit off kilter grasp-wise for me, but its coming (for refinements)
<crucify_me> mordof care to help a lost soul? https://gist.github.com/anonymous/11332027
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<mordof> crucify_me: what's your question?
<benzrf> crucify_me: that looks like expected behavior to me
<havenwood> crucify_me: loop_of_3 << i % 3
<mordof> benzrf: he's just trying to understand it i think
<mordof> no no
<havenwood> crucify_me: change link 4 to that ^
<mordof> well that'll more properly demonstrate what's happening..
<crucify_me> thnx line 4 has an array with indices calculated. havenwood link 4 ?
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<havenwood> crucify_me: what you're *doing* is setting the index of an array to i, what i think you mean to do is add the modulo result to the array
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<crucify_me> a member here gave me this to work on the other day
<crucify_me> havenwood:
<gizmore> Is there a way to make threads reuse the same db connection?
<havenwood> crucify_me: try changing line 4 as I suggest and check the result
<mordof> crucify_me: essentially what's happening is i % 3 (1 - 10 range) is 1, 2, 0, 1, 2, 0, 1, 2, 0, 1. so really you will only have 3 unique id's in that array
<mordof> crucify_me: since it keeps getting over-written
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<mordof> crucify_me: so the last three occurances - 2, 0, 1 (8, 9, 10) and because then they are set in order with them being 0 1 2... that's why you see them in the order they are
<mordof> 1 % 3 == 1, 2 % 3 == 2, 3 % 3 == 0, 4 % 3 == 1, 5 % 3 == 2, and so on
<crucify_me> ok thanks mordof but the output is [9, 10, 8] . this is https://gist.github.com/anonymous/11332027
<crucify_me> havenwood: working on it mordof
<mordof> yep - as i mentioned, the last 3 unique numbers are those three numbers after being % 3'd
<mordof> crucify_me: it's storing the loop # in the array
<havenwood> crucify_me: because you're setting loop_of_3[0] = 9, loop_of_3[1] = 10, etc
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<crucify_me> hmm ok I think I can grep it from there many thanks havenwood mordof
<havenwood> >> loop_of_3 = []; loop_of_3[0] = 6; loop_of_3[0] = 9; loop_of_3
<eval-in> havenwood => [9] (https://eval.in/142593)
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<crucify_me> sweet
<mordof> crucify_me: go through understanding (a) modulo itself, (b) how looping 1 - 10 and just spitting out i % 3 affects things, etc
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<mordof> yeah - and the fact that you're over-writing data as a result in that example like havenwood pointed out
<crucify_me> yeah thanks mordof modulo I do have... working
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<crucify_me> ^^really appreciate it.
<mordof> :)
<mordof> ahh i like that i can follow that now in full, heh.. not super complex, but i've only been into ruby a couple days
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* mordof is excited
<crucify_me> you mean the modulo thing?
<mordof> havenwood: i just learned about yields, super awesome. i was asking and making my own additions to array to fiddle with different looping mechanisms playing with yield
<mordof> crucify_me: well - i knew modulo from other languages. it's just a math operation
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<mordof> crucify_me: ruby in general.
<crucify_me> cool
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<shevy> mordof did you write some ruby code yet
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<mordof> shevy: that's me fiddling around with what i've been going through
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<centrx> mordof, FYI Ruby style is to use two spaces as indentation
<mordof> ah - sublime isn't set to using spaces for tabs. whoops
<mordof> i know
<mordof> it's set to 2 spaces in my editor, but is still normal tab characters, which is the problem
<mordof> i'll change that in a bit
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<shevy> mordof ok good, you already use classes
<reactormonk> muh, coded too long with typecheck, now I suck at ruby :-/
<shevy> reactormonk hah! :D
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<AntelopeSalad> mordof: have you thought about using [] instead of Array.new?
<mordof> shevy: the order of what's there is pretty much in order from me learning it, lol - classes were one of the first things i experimented with
<shevy> mordof, puts self.details <-- I believe you can omit the self. inside that class
<srji> printf "%3d - %s\n", counter, name
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<shevy> mordof did you use python before?
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<srji> what is '%3d'?
<mordof> AntelopeSalad: ohh array literals work for ruby?
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<shevy> srji sprint formatting style, should be 3 digits
<reactormonk> input.map.with_index {|item, i| [item, i*0.2 < 1.0]}.partition{|x| x[1]}.transpose
<shevy> srji it's in the official docu that table
<reactormonk> ^ the transpose bails here with in `transpose': element size differs (87 should be 5) (IndexError)
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<mordof> shevy: ah, yeah probably (with the self.details). a little python, not a lot. javascript background
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<mordof> AntelopeSalad: nevermind i'm an idiot - of course array literals work, i'm using them lower down, lol
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<shevy> srji see here for many many examples http://apidock.com/ruby/Kernel/sprintf
<mordof> AntelopeSalad: that top part was one of the first bits of ruby i wrote, so.. yeah :p
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<AntelopeSalad> mordof: ah, i didn't read the whole thing
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<srji> shevy: ty
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<shevy> sprintf("%6d", 123) # => " 123"
<mordof> map and map! - is there a difference? or will it always create a new array
<shevy> if you need padding with ' ' though, .ljust(20) and .rjust(20) is easier
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<mordof> map! being dangerous/destructive - it should overwrite, yes?
<shevy> mordof yeah, .map! will replace
<mordof> ok
<mordof> cool :)
<shevy> so:
<shevy> x = x.map
<shevy> won't be the same as
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<shevy> x = x.map!
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<mordof> hm?
<mordof> why not?
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<mordof> since x = x.map overwrites
<shevy> mordof because in the second case you already modified in place
<AntelopeSalad> speaking of !, i'm surprised they didn't use ! on delete_if
<ddd> 1st will create new array (returning memory location of newly crated 'tmp' array) 2nd will modify original array giving back memory ref *of* the original, correct?
<mordof> shevy: right - the outcome is the same though right?
<ddd> to describe technical diff
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<mordof> shevy: even though internally it's better to use x.map!
<benzrf> >> [1, 2, 3].map!
<eval-in> benzrf => #<Enumerator: [1, 2, 3]:map!> (https://eval.in/142602)
<benzrf> >> [1, 2, 3].map! {}
<eval-in> benzrf => [nil, nil, nil] (https://eval.in/142603)
<shevy> mordof well, ! can be faster
<shevy> for .gsub at least
<mordof> shevy: oh for sure, that i imagined
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<ddd> >> [1,2,3].map!.obj_id
<eval-in> ddd => undefined method `obj_id' for #<Enumerator: [1, 2, 3]:map!> (NoMethodError) ... (https://eval.in/142604)
<ddd> hrmm
<shevy> what is #obj_id
<shevy> have you been too long in college now ddd and wrote too little ruby
<omosoj> Running into a problem. A conditional inside an iterator is not working. https://gist.github.com/anonymous/11332838
<ddd> what did i do wrong there? (isn't it .obj_id to return a Ruby object's id?
<ddd> shevy yes :/
<shevy> hehehe
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<shevy> object_id
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<ddd> i haven't touched it in months. absolutely freakin rusty
<shevy> I can see you were too long away, you haven't written a lot of stuff in #ruby since AGES
<ddd> ahh it was the full. 2nd guessed myself
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<shevy> omosoj why is it not working
<shevy> omosoj do you not debug? you should do: p line
<ddd> yeah, man. life has been kiling me here. off my pain meds now so had to wean off them all while going to school etc. Docs said they were killing my liver so the family and I decided to get me off them. Been concentrating on Life so much, I haven't really touched the computer in a dog's age.
<shevy> omosoj btw what is the condition
<shevy> all I see is an empty elsif check
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<shevy> the family decides which drugs you have to take? :)
<omosoj> Looks like there's a problem with if line == "2004"
<ddd> yes.
<shevy> omosoj what would you imagine the line to be anyway?
<ddd> when its a matter of quantity of life vs. quality of life, they do
<shevy> omosoj if you think the line would be '2004' then perhaps you might be wrong
<omosoj> p line where?
<shevy> omosoj before the first if check
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<rkazak> ddd: You have a good family.
<shevy> then you will find out why the line == check does not work
<ddd> rkazak they love me, i love them. :) all's well in the neighborhood hehe
<omosoj> Aha! I'm missing the \n?
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<shevy> omosoj most lines in a file have a \n
<shevy> you can kill them for instance via .chomp
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<shevy> if line.chomp == '2004'
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<rkazak> why don’t you chomp off anyway?
<omosoj> Ok, cool. Thanks for the help!
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<atmosx> aloha
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<ddd> Mahalo
<ddd> I probably should have said Pehea 'oe? first :)
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<omosoj> Shevy, I fixed those parts up but I'm getting the same error
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<omosoj> Does n turn into nil after each iteration?
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<shevy> omosoj I wrote you above something, please read it
<atmosx> hello shevy
<shevy> also, when you change code parts, re-upload the pastie
<shevy> hey atmosx
<omosoj> K, ty.
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<omosoj> shevy, I figured it out... widened the scope of the variable. Thanks for the p line tip I'll use that to debug in the future.
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<rkazak> omosoj did you use gist as eval.in is down? or is the # of lines the issue?
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<omosoj> rkazak, I chose gist because I didn't know that eval.in would be better. :) I'm a newb so by definition I do everything incorrectly. heh
<rkazak> me too ! :)
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<omosoj> Cool. How are you learning?
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<rkazak> try, try, try again….
<omosoj> Heh. I just finished my first script. It's probably ugly and inefficient, and it took me probably 4 hours, but I did it. :)))
<rkazak> well done.
<rkazak> ruby can never be ugly???
<ddd> omosoj awesome! keep driving forward!
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<ddd> ask shevy, i'm a slowpoke at learning. (he's taken pity on me more than a few times). If I can learn it, you can. :-) Frustrating occasionally, but man that WOOHOO you get when you figure it out.. awesome-sauce
<omosoj> ddd, thanks. Feeling pretty good. Took forever and was quite frustrating, but the first time I made a program to do something I wanted without copying a structure :)
<omosoj> Cool
<rkazak> Try is nothing wrong in copying… as long as you understand what it is....
<ddd> yep, exact road i took. i followed The Well-Grounded Rubyist, then broke out on my own, referring back only for when I was totally lost and about to absolutely quit.
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<shevy> ddd hehe
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<shevy> I use ruby only in a minimal way
<ddd> i'm super rusty as hell because i've been away from computers as a whole for months now (school). but i'd wager i remember enough of the rules from doing it that way to pick it back up in short order.
<shevy> when I don't see something as useful or stylistic to the rest of my ruby code, I reject it instantly
<omosoj> Yeah 90% of my learning comes from copying. I just need to repeat the basics for a while until something seeps in.
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<ddd> the expression use it or lose it aint no lie hehe
<rkazak> let’s face it, in the real world how many people write from scratch? You may/will be reading other people’s code - so you are doing the best by learning from others …
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<omosoj> True
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<omosoj> Still cool to write personal scripts though :))
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<ddd> omosoj like rkazak said, most of the jobs out there aren't these 'do it from total scratch' jobs. its fixing other people's code. which entails reading it. so long as you understand the basic syntax (what's a class, when to use {} vs () etc) its just a matter of doing it over and over again.,
<ddd> not a thing wrong with C&P so long as you don't use it without trying to grok it
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<shevy> rkazak I write a lot of things from scratch; some stuff I re-use freely though, like coderay parser, or kramdown markdown parser - these I gladly reuse
<shevy> or prawn
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<rkazak> nice.
<shevy> I think large projects are often significantly more useful than the smaller ones
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<shevy> smaller ones I can write from scratch quickly myself, larger ones however really often had a lot of work and testing go into them
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<rkazak> or maybe ‘well written projects'
<shevy> yeah
<omosoj> hey shevy, do you have any general advice for newbs?
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<ddd> yeah i too would have to agree with the 'well written projects' being the better identifier
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<shevy> omosoj yeah, write as much as possible by yourself, over and over again
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<shevy> ddd prawn is really great
<shevy> I now use it to autogenerate .pdf documents here and there
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<omosoj> Cool, that's what I'm trying to do
<shevy> like tutorials or manuals (ok ok... I haven't autogenerated a tutorial yet, but a manual...)
<ddd> and when you understand the basic syntax damned well, try adding in tests like rspec or using ruby's built in (MiniTest iirc) and then try writing code to make them pass (even if you don't ever reuse that code)
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<omosoj> TDD, right?
<ddd> ehh, forget the terms
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<ddd> just use the tool
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<omosoj> I've done some of that stuff through tutorials but I gotta learn how to do them more.
<srji> just do it - nike :)
<shevy> hmm
<ddd> think of say something *really* simple like: it "should return false" ... end and do something in the block to make that assumption correct (and wrong at least once so you know the WHY of it)
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<ddd> just don't get caught up in writing the test and forget to contiue learning just how to 'do' hehe
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<ddd> that was my mistake for a long time. got caught up on how this or that test framework did this that or the other thing and got focused away from just friggin learning
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<rkazak> lerning is the objective, the frameworks are the tools...
<ddd> shevy oh wait, i got a good idea. What's that 3 word programmer's test? Foo Bar Baz?
<ddd> rkazak yeah
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<shevy> ddd yeah
<shevy> I go with... Foo bar bla baz or something like that
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<shevy> but my favourite name is _
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<ddd> it tests that you can A) cognitively understand a coding problem, and then B) define a solution to it. trying to find the one I wrote. think i kept the original URL to the original question phrasing.
<myke> also quux
<ddd> someone threw it at me for a coding contract
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* shevy throws some panties at ddd
<shevy> I don't quite know what to use to test
<shevy> I most definitely won't let the tests drive how I use my code
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<shevy> I also don't want to test every component, I am not writing a NASA lunar platform to warrant that
<centrx> I am
<rkazak> :)
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<shevy> I need some testing where the functionality is preserved without having to specify every individual component
<rkazak> shevy:what if NASA wants to use your....
<ddd> omosoj: "Count to 100. If divisible by 3 output Foo, if divisible by 5 output Bar, if
<shevy> nah
<ddd> divisible by both output Baz
<ddd> "
<ddd> that was it
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<shevy> NASA pursues silly goals, like searching life... we already have found life, it's on a planet
<centrx> How far away is that planet?
<ddd> start small, morph to harder stuff. also, check out iwanttolearnruby.com
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<shevy> centrx very close
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<shevy> ddd do you make use of databases for your stuff written in ruby?
<omosoj> ddd, what's that?
<ddd> shevy yeah
<ddd> omosoj its a coder's quiz.
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<ddd> helps to find out if you can cognitively break down a problem and then code a solution for it.
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<ddd> since you have to know ruby syntax to solve it in ruby.. ;) just think on the problem and devise a solution. refine the solution once you have it working (can you make it better? *can* it get any better?)
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<omosoj> (1..100).each do {|x| if x%3 == 0 && x%5 != 0; puts Foo; elsif x%5 == 0 && x%3 != 0; puts Bar; elsif x%3 == 0 && x%5 == 0 puts Baz}
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<omosoj> There are probably 15 syntax errors but that would be my general approach
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<ddd> just a starting point. you said you wanted from-scratch so don't google any answers. once you complete it and refine if (if its possible to, something you have to figure out) then move on to iwanttolearnruby.com and start digging through the individual sites on that list page for other projects that you might find cool.
<ddd> hehe but see that is the point. get rid of the syntax errors. you got the general idea on how to solve, so, now, *actually* solve it :)
<ddd> couple friends of mine had me do it when I got started. got me interested in moving forward. small victories add up :)
<rkazak> yep!
<omosoj> Yeah it's good to do these kinds of exercises.
<rkazak> just open a ‘programming’ book and do the exercise in ruby…
<ddd> i found the gist of my original solution. even now, its getting me back into hunting the bugs :)
<ddd> i swear, once bitten, the programming bug never *really* goes away
<rkazak> yep...
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<rkazak> and programming is programming in whatever language you choose….
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<rkazak> always be open to new ideas.
<ddd> i have absolutely dickall worth coding atm (except a rails site for animal rescue which i really don't have the bulk time it needs to have to be done right) but i can feel that rekindling of the desire to write *something*.
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<ddd> I BLAME SHEVY!
<ddd> oops
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<ddd> rkazak yeah. i did java for school. always came back to ruby, but what i learned from that class applies equally well
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<ddd> sorry, evangelizing a bit here. i'll stop now. just remember to keep driving forward and you'll be all right. if this is really something you want into, you'll make it happen
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<rkazak> exactly… we are just implementing algorithms with a tool of choice. Sometime its useful to reimplement in another language to see the difference....
<ddd> yeah, exactly what i wanted to say. great word choices
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<ddd> yikes, my 7yo is getting a wee bit bored. something tells me this might be a recipe for disaster
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<rkazak> as long as you don’t just put him/her in front of the box of insanaity….
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<ddd> omosoj so i quit blathering (and to make sure my kid doesn't go off and do something crazy, he *is* 7 after all), I'ma split for a bit. I'd be interested in your Final Solution for the FizzBuzz. Msg me the gist url if you post it up.
<ddd> rkazak yeah, aint that the truth especially with the way TV shows are these days. Kid shows my ass!
<omosoj> ddd, heh, cool. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
<centrx> My advice is: Whatever you do, don't use PHP.
<rkazak> ddd: it only gets different…
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<ddd> omosoj np :) I tend to go on when I'm excited or want to pass on the 'torch' on something. :)
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<omosoj> :)
<ddd> rkazak heh. different. way with words.. way with words. :)
<rkazak> :)
<ddd> ok, later. &
<rkazak> bye 4 now.
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<omosoj> Later
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<rkazak> who runs eval.in ? how does that work?
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<centrx> rkazak, charliesome
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<centrx> rkazak, It runs a Ruby interpreter inside some kind of security box
<rkazak> is he/are they in the chat room?
<centrx> Sometimes
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