<canton7>
looks like lots of people set their bidding limit at $3, and too many people started bidding
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<yorickpeterse>
Yeah but I wonder why this is all of a sudden
<canton7>
it happens from time to time - there have been instances of it reaching $100's iirc, from people taking the attitude of "we'll just use spot instances all the time, but we can't afford to not have one available, so we'll just shove a massive max bid on"
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<yorickpeterse>
Ah well, good thing we still have dedicated instances available as backup
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<DefV>
isn't that a whole lot of money?
<DefV>
$3?
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<yorickpeterse>
Yes
<yorickpeterse>
$3 per hour per instance
<DefV>
who'd do that
<DefV>
just do on-demand then
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<canton7>
presumably this is automated systems bidding as necessary to keep their instances online, which don't have the intelligence / capability to switch to on-demand instances
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<yorickpeterse>
DefV: this is more expensive than AWS' most expensive GPU instance :P
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<yorickpeterse>
Oh, their most expensive instance type that I can see is c3.8xlarge
<yorickpeterse>
which is $1,91
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<DefV>
4
<yorickpeterse>
Hm, apparently i2.4xlarge is $3,75
<yorickpeterse>
which has 4x 800 GB SSD
<yorickpeterse>
dayum
<yorickpeterse>
oh derp they have more
<yorickpeterse>
i2.8xlarge which is $7,5
<yorickpeterse>
either way, it's expensive
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<ljarvis>
moin
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<ljarvis>
apeiros: I don't really have the time to work on the ruby version of relapse at the moment, nevermind something in js. I'll hopefully have time to get the code in order and on gh soon so I can give you a holla when that happens
<yorickpeterse>
ljarvis: can you write one in Julia too?
<ljarvis>
of course
<yorickpeterse>
k thx I need that by yesterday
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<matti>
yorickpeterse: Checking.
<matti>
yorickpeterse: Nice!
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<apeiros>
ljarvis: is it possible that I get a copy of the code as-is? I mean I can port code myself :)
<apeiros>
(and it doesn't need to run perfectly…)
<yorickpeterse>
apeiros: no existing libraries fit your needs?
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<apeiros>
yorickpeterse: I have to integrate it with my own library
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<apeiros>
so no, none fits my needs :)
<apeiros>
so far I've tried to read the code for moment.js, and it's IMO just horrible. I trust ljarvis to have better code, even unpolished.
<darix>
JonnieCache: should just "somestring".hash give you that?
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<darix>
shouldnt even..
<JonnieCache>
nah, while it apparently does use siphash, it also uses random seeds and stuff
<JonnieCache>
its not deterministic across interpreter instances at all, this is apparently to prevent certain classes of DDoS
<darix>
./random.c:#include "siphash.c"
<darix>
hmhm
<apeiros>
yorickpeterse: aaahaha, looks cute
<apeiros>
yorickpeterse: whenever I think code quality in ruby-land is bad, all I have to do is take a look at some random PHP or JS. it never disappoints…
<apeiros>
I'm quite curious as to why the eval is needed here: `if(typeof moment == 'undefined') eval("var moment = require('./moment');"); `
<JonnieCache>
lol javascript
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<maloik>
oh snap, dnsimple has a new 'bronze' plan for up to two domains
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<maloik>
lovely
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<yorickpeterse>
I hate Vimscript
<yorickpeterse>
Defining a custom indent script is like stabbing your eyes out with a pack of angry cats
<DefV>
I always figure "if tpope hasn't written it yet I probably don't need it"
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<yorickpeterse>
That guy must be mad
<yorickpeterse>
so much Vimscript is not healthy
<DefV>
he is, but functional mad
<DefV>
<3 tpope
<yorickpeterse>
He used to have some weird Vim tooth fairy background I believe, but it's gone
<[spoiler]>
tbuehlmann, yeah I was just checing it out, but thanks :D
<[spoiler]>
checking*
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<amigo99>
does any1 understand why ruby's bitmap marking helps with copy-on-write? it says that instead of setting the mark flag on RValue, its sets it on a bitmap (outside of object's memory area), but doesnt marking on the bitmap modify the memory too (which will trigger COW?)
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<xybre>
amigo99: they're stored in different locations
<darix>
amigo99: 1. if you set a flag on an object it will change that object. 2. the bitmap can be more compact than loading each object into memory to set the flag
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<xybre>
Different blobs. CoW doesn't "trigger" arbitrarily, only when Ruby wants it to and under certain conditions. It's not just "easier" to specify what you want to CoW, but its one of the few sane ways to do so.
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<amigo99>
" CoW doesn't "trigger" arbitrarily, only when Ruby wants it to and under certain conditions" - ah i didnt realize that, i thought its an automatic thing that OS does?
<wallerdev>
ah
<wallerdev>
makes sense
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<amigo99>
no?
<wallerdev>
lol
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<amigo99>
wallerdev: why lol? u mean its not COW is not automatic then?
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<amigo99>
i looked up wikipedia: "Copy-on-write can be implemented by notifying the MMU that certain pages in the process's address space are read-only"
<amigo99>
so does ruby have to do that
<amigo99>
make some system call to mark only pages belong to objspace
<amigo99>
?
<wallerdev>
sorry i joined halfway through the conversation
<wallerdev>
lol
<wallerdev>
i dont think copy on write is an OS thing though
<wallerdev>
like you need to know when you need to copy a variable and only ruby is going to know that right?
<wallerdev>
maybe not, im no expert on this stuff
<wallerdev>
i know phusion passenger with ruby enterprise edition added copy on write to ruby to improve performance
<wallerdev>
but thats kind of a dead project now i think
<amigo99>
well REE made the gc copy-on-write friendly, they didnt add "copy-on-write" itself
<wallerdev>
ah
<apeiros>
wallerdev, amigo99: it exists at both levels
<apeiros>
e.g. CoW of forks is OS level
<apeiros>
and it works by detecting changes in memory
<apeiros>
ruby has its own CoW e.g. for shared arrays
<apeiros>
CoW on OS level will copy whole pages. so a single changed bit can cause e.g. 4KB of memory to be copied
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<apeiros>
and flagging an object for gc is such a single bit change. and without the bitmap, those single bit changes are spread over the whole memory.
<amigo99>
oh!!! makes sense now
<apeiros>
so a single gc run will mark the memory of the whole ruby process as changed to the OS
<amigo99>
since the mark flags are stored together, num of 4KB memory copied is minimized
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<apeiros>
to prevent that, you put all those single bit changes into one single place. that place will be copied. but all the objects which don't really change won't.
<katlogic>
amigo99: Thats what SBCL GC does.
<amigo99>
thanks for that explanation :) cleared things up for me
<apeiros>
no guarantees on correctness ;-)
<apeiros>
but you're welcome
* katlogic
didnt know ruby has top-of-the-line copying gc with mprotect barriers
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<apeiros>
I don't think GC is yet top-of-the-line
<apeiros>
but it's starting to improve
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<amigo99>
yeah, RGenGC looks interesting
* katlogic
never hit a wall with gc in mainline ruby
<katlogic>
always hit other bottlenecks first
<katlogic>
now for some JIT variants it might be interesting
<apeiros>
katlogic: never hit a wall either. but it's noticable in our larger webapps.
<apeiros>
response times for identical requests vary largely, as a single GC sweep can easily take ~250ms
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<katlogic>
I guess long-running stuff which create ginormous amount of gc waste around, so gc throughput starts to suck?
<apeiros>
2.1 should improve that quite a lot for us. I'm curious what the numbers will be.
<apeiros>
katlogic: well, large amount of objects means lots of objects to mark
<amigo99>
apeiros: what webserver u using/
<apeiros>
mark & sweep grows at least lineraly in time
<amigo99>
?
<katlogic>
apeiros: Oh, if it is stop world non-incremental gc this wall definitively exist :/
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<apeiros>
amigo99: for the older stuff: apache + passenger
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<apeiros>
katlogic: just to be clear, we're still on 1.9 for those apps. as said, 2.1 should improve the situation *a lot*
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<wallerdev>
1.9 :(
<apeiros>
it's especially annoying because we have really fast autocompletion and similar for ajax stuff. and if that goes from the usual 5-10ms to 300-400ms, it just sucks.
<amigo99>
maybe unicorn's out of band GC could help too? not sure if its stable though?
<katlogic>
apeiros: Does not look like speed daemon to me :/
<apeiros>
amigo99: unicorn the one which does GC.stop and just kills the whole thing after a time? :)
* katlogic
gave up on benchmarking ruby, just make sure to cache stuff aggresively on front proxy
<apeiros>
heh, not viable for those things
<katlogic>
Then be prepared to buy *a lot* hardware
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<apeiros>
not useful either
<katlogic>
you know, like github did :>
<apeiros>
better GC and splitting the whole thing into lots of smaller apps are the viable solutions here
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<apeiros>
smaller apps -> faster GC sweeps
<katlogic>
or just use something with incremental gc? :)
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<apeiros>
2.1 has generational
<apeiros>
as said, it should help :)
<katlogic>
yeah, but still single-sweep
<katlogic>
just like v8
<katlogic>
yeah it helps a lot in general case, but still shows up now and then
<apeiros>
I'd love to rewrite the ajax stuff in go
<apeiros>
but I doubt they'd give me the time :D
<katlogic>
usually when a lot of garbage is generated in nursery in one go
<katlogic>
(typically parsing some ginormous document and such)
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<katlogic>
apeiros: as much I hate to say it, performance/dev time, nodejs is probably winner
<katlogic>
i mean, for banal stuff like bunch of rest handlers for js stuff
<amigo99>
is there ruby implementation on top of V8?
<katlogic>
amigo99: Thats not how VMs work
<katlogic>
perl tried it once
<apeiros>
amigo99: I think that'd be rather painful
<apeiros>
(I wouldn't be surprised if someone tried, tho)
<apeiros>
katlogic: and why do you hate to say it? :)
<amigo99>
well, someone did it for JVM
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<katlogic>
it's still slow crap even on jvm
<apeiros>
yes. but jvm supports a language which is quite a bit richer than js
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<apeiros>
you know, js is the language which does. not. have. integers.
<katlogic>
indeed mix-and-match with java is awesome in jvm
<cout>
apeiros: an integer is just a floating-point number where the exponent is 0
<wallerdev>
lol
<cout>
special case
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<apeiros>
cout: ah, haha, haaa, ha. you meant that as a joke, right?
<katlogic>
apeiros: I dont care about those. They're actually present on most JS engines internall. What is most crippled about js is lack of object-as-hash-key.
<cout>
apeiros: and a C string is just a really really big integer
<katlogic>
You have to literally implement hash tables by hand. Retarded.
<wallerdev>
just give all your js objects a unique key
<wallerdev>
thats what closure does
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<apeiros>
katlogic: I did that
<katlogic>
wallerdev: Problem is with gc.
<katlogic>
wallerdev: I want the object be destroyed the moment last key is killed. Impossible in js.
<apeiros>
somebody told me to s/retarded/stupid/
<wallerdev>
dont have to worry about memory in js
<wallerdev>
lol
<katlogic>
:)))
<wallerdev>
people will just blame flash or chrome or something else
<katlogic>
If its in browser, sure, who cares :) It's user's fault for using machine from 2009.
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<wallerdev>
ah if youre using node then :(
<katlogic>
V8 gc is sometimes flaky but not half as bad. Does not help that JS is still stupid tho.
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<sharpmachine>
I'm using simple form and have a Service model and a Listing model. They are associated, but I'm trying to add a service field to the new listing form using <%= f.association :service %> but I'm getting back undefined method `service_id' for #<Listing:0x007fa063643830>
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<jhass>
sharpmachine: cross posting won't help you either. Doing so without telling is rude.
<sharpmachine>
Dude I'm new to IRC. I don't know the etiquette. Give me some grace
<sharpmachine>
I just need help. I thought that was what IRC was for. I didn't realize how strict it was.
<wallerdev>
lol
<xybre>
Every community has its rules.
<jhass>
sharpmachine: I do. apeiros usually kicks
<xybre>
You wanna be lambasted, trying joining a development mailing list.
<wallerdev>
does your listing model belong to your service model?
<wallerdev>
like belongs_to :service or something
<wallerdev>
no idea what listing and service refer to
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<wallerdev>
but it sounds like youre missing a belongs_to :service in your listing model
<sharpmachine>
listing belongs_to :service and Service has_many :listings
<jhass>
did you create the service_id column?
<sharpmachine>
I thought an ID column is created automatically?
<sharpmachine>
ID is different from service_id?
<jhass>
of course
<jhass>
how would you persist the association otherwise?
<xybre>
Sounds like some relational database basics are called for also.
<sharpmachine>
Yeah, super new to all this.
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<wallerdev>
yeah basically rails only creates db columns based on what you defined in your migration, so if you didnt put the association between your two models into your migrations, then your database cant relate those two models
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<wallerdev>
its not going to add columns to your db if you just write belongs_to in your model file
<sharpmachine>
Okay, so I need to add the column service_id
<wallerdev>
yup
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<sharpmachine>
But first I'm going to rad what jhass suggested I read so I understand what/why
<sharpmachine>
read, not rad
<wallerdev>
yeah that gives info on how you should do your migrations too
<wallerdev>
so good to read that
<sharpmachine>
Thanks all for breaking the community rules and answering a RoR question in Ruby channel.
<wallerdev>
yeah its okay, we were all new once haha, the problem is that when youre new you tend to ask vague questions and people dont usually want to dig into them to figure out what youre really trying to do
<wallerdev>
easier to use irc for help when you have very specific questions
<sharpmachine>
Awesome! I'll keep that in mind
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<sabman>
haha, it didn't but then I don't know C. So I thought I might be missing something
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<sabman>
I guess to reframe my question, if I do know C and if looking at that file would help
<Mon_Ouie>
I don't think it would help, it just shows how things are implemented
<Mon_Ouie>
If you want to look at it, the function that's being called when you run hash[:id] is rb_hash_aref
<Mon_Ouie>
hash[key] = val is rb_hash_aset
<Mon_Ouie>
(You can see at the bottom of the file that it binds a Ruby method to a C function by calling rb_define_method)
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<sabman>
Right. I did look at it. But I couldn't follow. So, yeah, if I could have looked at the code and figured out that Ruby rewrites it, that would be cool.
<Mon_Ouie>
Oh, no, you'd have to look at the parser to know that
<sabman>
So I wanted to check with people here do look at the source code to understand what Ruby does internally
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<|jemc|>
well, isn't that cute
<|jemc|>
pity it has to be an extension, but I guess that answers my question - can't really be done at the in-Ruby level without going down into extension territory
<|jemc|>
that's what I feared
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<whitequark>
no, it can't be.
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