ljarvis changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 2.1.2; 2.0.0-p481; 1.9.3-p547: http://ruby-lang.org || Paste code on http://gist.github.com
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<yorickpeterse> morning fleshlings
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<apeiros> yorickpeterse: howdy meatbag :)
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<ljarvis> hello
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<yorickpeterse> <yorick> Hey co-worker X can you print this for me? Linux is stupid and can't use our printer
<yorickpeterse> <co-worker> can I?
<yorickpeterse> <yorick> Yes
<yorickpeterse> apparently she was not in the office
<yorickpeterse> ._.
<yorickpeterse> I hadn't noticed
* yorickpeterse hates printers
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<diegoviola> printers are a PITA indeed, on any OS
<diegoviola> on arch it was easy to set up my printer though
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<diegoviola> systemctl start cups; xdg-open http://localhost:631/ ; Administration -> Find New Printers, done
<judofyr> hi peeps
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<workmad3> diegoviola: awesome :D
<yorickpeterse> diegoviola: my printer at home is a total nightmare
<diegoviola> yorickpeterse: which one is it?
<diegoviola> CUPS is maintained by apple, if your printer works on OSX it should work on Linux as well, since it's the same stack pretty much
<diegoviola> well note quite i guess
<yorickpeterse> diegoviola: some stupid Epson printer
<yorickpeterse> haha "if it works on OS X"
<yorickpeterse> that's a lie
<yorickpeterse> The drivers are vastly different
<yorickpeterse> In particular Epson's CUPS driver are a spawn from hell itself
<diegoviola> yeah I was thinking about the cups part only
<diegoviola> yorickpeterse: I have an epson here as well
<diegoviola> yorickpeterse: I'm using gutenprint on arch
<yorickpeterse> From what I remember I never could get Gurenprint to work
<yorickpeterse> the driver works, is detected, but it never prints anything
<yorickpeterse> "bro I totally printed that" - nope
<diegoviola> hrm
<diegoviola> I think I had that same issue
<diegoviola> not sure how I fixed it
<diegoviola> let me try
* diegoviola prints something
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<diegoviola> is CUPS just a queue or something?
<diegoviola> web interface / queue stuff
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<diegoviola> gutenprint works on osx as well, does osx uses something different for the driver?
<yorickpeterse> CUPS is a web interface, yes
<workmad3> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CUPS seems to say CUPS is basically spooler, scheduler and other services above the print driver in the stack
<diegoviola> yorickpeterse: my printer is working just fine
<diegoviola> yorickpeterse: with gutenprint and cups
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* diegoviola is printing the kernel.org page
<diegoviola> lulz
<diegoviola> go to Administration -> Add Printer (it should ask you for your root password), then click on Administration again and Find New Printer
<diegoviola> it should find it automatically
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<diegoviola> thought cups already included all drivers, forgot i had to install gutenprint too, my bad :D
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<yorickpeterse> You're missing a crucial part here
<yorickpeterse> I long stopped caring about printers
<yorickpeterse> I print like, 1 paper a year
<surrounder> same
<surrounder> @ work
<yorickpeterse> so I just send it to my Winbloze computer and printer it there
<yorickpeterse> Or co-workers
<surrounder> it's 2014
<yorickpeterse> printers as a service
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<diegoviola> yeah i print rarely also
<diegoviola> but printers hasn't been an issue for me on linux
<diegoviola> they were more of an issue for me on windows (odd I know)
<diegoviola> yorickpeterse: what distro are you on?
<surrounder> bah linux
<yorickpeterse> diegoviola: Arse linux
<diegoviola> weird
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<yorickpeterse> Printers and 802.11n are two things I gave up on in Linux
<yorickpeterse> I'm convinced they will forever stay shit
<darix> yorickpeterse: cups is more than just a webinterface
<darix> and funnily ... cups was taken over by apple
<darix> and gutenprint drivers usually should work on linux too
<diegoviola> hardware support has been much better to deal with in linux than on windows /for me/
<yorickpeterse> In general it's ok
<diegoviola> in the last few years at least
<yorickpeterse> But the two things I mentioned are the worst
<yorickpeterse> http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel.wireless.general/112684 <- hell, I even wrote a semi angry Email
<yorickpeterse> Hm, seems I nuked the gist though
<yorickpeterse> Perhaps I need to challenge my inner Linus more and start insulting pet hamsters
<surrounder> lol
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<rh1n0> I upgraded sensu to 0.13.1 from 0.12 - something happen to the dashboard?
<rh1n0> ah never mind - i see the docs are recommending uchiwa
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<lele|2> tercom
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<yorickpeterse> wat
<judofyr> hi yorickpeterse
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<yorickpeterse> hai
<judofyr> what's up?
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<ljarvis> wat
<ljarvis> ohi judofyr
<judofyr> wat are u all wating for?
<ljarvis> wat
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<judofyr> /o\
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<toretore> \o/
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<judofyr> hi toretore
<judofyr> doing clojure? these days?
<toretore> trying out clojurescript and om
<judofyr> how's it going?
<toretore> i like it so far
<judofyr> I really ought to learn more Clojure
<judofyr> I really know nothing :/
<toretore> but my limited knowledge of clojure makes it slow
<judofyr> slow?
<toretore> trying to find a way to do all this dynamic web app stuff without going insane
<judofyr> seen React?
<toretore> the learning is slow
<toretore> yup
<toretore> om is react for cljs
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<judofyr> ah, right. I always mix up om and mori (?)
<judofyr> mori is the Clojure data structures?
<judofyr> or no
<judofyr> Mori is the Clojure data structure in plain JS?
<judofyr> all these project names
<toretore> i've always been of the opinion that if you want to do dynamic single page app things you have to go all in
<judofyr> toretore: you'll get pretty far with just React + JS
<toretore> and react is close to that
<toretore> yeah but i like core.async :)
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<judofyr> *shrugs*. in this app we're just using React on some pages.
<judofyr> but where we're using it, we're taking up the whole page.
<toretore> yeah
<toretore> ime these things become painful to maintain after a while
<toretore> so i'm hoping react's approach will be better
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<judofyr> I've been adding controllers to my React code. not sure how that will fit into Om.
<toretore> i think it's quite flexible, with few assumptions about its environment
<toretore> how about you, what are you working on?
<judofyr> well, studying physics = less time for code
<toretore> oh
<toretore> yeah i can see that :)
<toretore> physics isn't that easy
<judofyr> so professionally I'm doing Ruby/Sinatra/Padrino + React for client-side
<judofyr> (part-time work)
<toretore> yeah i'm pondering going all api with the app existing only on the client
<toretore> but it's a big leap
<judofyr> toretore: I've also been working on this for APIs in Ruby: toretore: I worked a bit on a JavaScript
<judofyr> haha
<judofyr> copy-paste fail
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<toretore> ah cool
<toretore> i've been thinking about making something like this myself
<toretore> (after the 50 other things i have planned)
<judofyr> basically a way to expose plain Ruby classes as a JSON API
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<judofyr> so POST /articles/:id just calls root.articles[ID].update(data)
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<gpg_> #=> "#<Fred:0x401b3da8 @a=\"dog\", @b=99, @c=\"cat\">" could someone explain what "0x401b3da8" means?
<gpg_> Fred is a class
<judofyr> gpg_: it's an id of the object
<judofyr> gpg_: every object has a unique ID
<judofyr> >> "Hello".object_id
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<Mon_Robot> judofyr: Something went wrong when trying to evaluate your code.
<judofyr> gives me: >> 70155346487340
<toretore> yeah. it's pretty obvious to me that http apis are going to be the center of web apps, so with rails & friends you get lots of overhead with the html/js/css stuff
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<gpg_> ok thnaks
<judofyr> gpg_: it's only there so if you have #<Fred:0x401b3da8 @a="dog"> and #<Fred:0x401b3db4 @a="dog"> you know that it's two different objects
<judofyr> gpg_: and changing @a in the first won't change the other
<gpg_> what about memory
<judofyr> gpg_: what about the memory?
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<gpg_> how do i see .. where it is saved
<gpg_> the class
<gpg_> in ram?
<judofyr> gpg_: yes, the object ID is directly based on where the object is stored in memory
<judofyr> are you familiar with C?
<gpg_> nope
<judofyr> okay
<gpg_> :(
<judofyr> gpg_: not sure what you're asking for? how the objects are structured in memory? where they're located? how the class is stored?
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<gpg_> all these questions i seem to be passionate about
<gpg_> the answers
<judofyr> toretore: other than that I've also been working on a pure-JS version of the BankID applet :)
<toretore> oh praise be to you
<judofyr> just to see if I can beat them
<toretore> that thing is an abomination
<judofyr> it's going slowly though
<judofyr> gpg_: okay. where they're located isn't that interesting. somewhere in memory.
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<judofyr> gpg_: an object contains two important things: a list of instance variables, and a class pointer.
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<judofyr> gpg_: so #<Fred @a="foo"> is stored as {a = "foo", .klass = Fred}
<judofyr> gpg_: you always pass along *references* to an object
<judofyr> so if you have `a = Fred.new("foo")` you can think that `a` now contains the location of the Fred-object
<judofyr> `b = a` means that a and b now points to the same object
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<judofyr> toretore: I did most of the work figuring out the API last summer. working on a pure-JS version now.
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<judofyr> gpg_: this is a huge topic btw :)
<judofyr> toretore: it's such a ridiculous API: http://github.com/judofyr/bankid-api
<judofyr> mixture of all kind of crypto
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<judofyr> uses HMAC-SHA256 for deriving a key, then HMAC-SHA1 for doing the actual authentication
<judofyr> gpg_: so yeah, not sure what I should explain
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<toretore> judofyr: you can do crypto with browser js now right?
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<judofyr> toretore: not parsing ASN.1
<judofyr> toretore: I'm using https://github.com/digitalbazaar/forge
<toretore> the crypto is probably why they went an applet way back then
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<judofyr> toretore: well, they claimed they used an applet because "it ships with all the algorithms we need", but they've still implemented SHA1/SHA256/AES/HMAC in the applet
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<toretore> luckily i don't deal much with this thing anymore
<judofyr> probably because of old Java versions or something
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<judofyr> gpg_: feel free to ping me with concrete questions though. either here or judofyr@gmail.com
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<judofyr> toretore: so many projects I'd like to finish :)
<toretore> judofyr: was it you who wrote that io loop article a while back?
<judofyr> toretore: probably
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<judofyr> I wrote one for Practicing Ruby
<toretore> ok i ghought so
<toretore> yeah, that's the one
<judofyr> hah. how so?
<judofyr> what gave me away?
<judofyr> (other than the author-line)
<toretore> hah
<toretore> no it was just very helpful when i was trying to understand all this stuff so i wanted to say thanks
<judofyr> cool
<judofyr> that's great :)
<toretore> writing an event loop right now actually :P
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<judofyr> in what language? and at what level? (i.e. reading sockets? handling GUI events?)
<toretore> ruby
<toretore> it's just an event dispatcher, very simple
<toretore> using a self pipe
<toretore> no io
<toretore> it's for a little process sidekick library i'm writing
<judofyr> right. IO.select is perfect for that.
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<toretore> i started with a Queue, but that requires >1 threads
<judofyr> is this across processes?
<toretore> nope
<toretore> most likely i'll be running it in a separate thread
<toretore> it just sits there receiving and sending messages
<judofyr> you can still use a Queue, no?
<toretore> like log entries, or you could ask about the process status, etc.
<toretore> yeah, i jumped through some hoops to not make that assumption
<toretore> with the pipe it can run in one process
<toretore> thread*
<judofyr> toretore: queue.pop.call until queue.empty?
<toretore> queue.pop barfs when there's only one thread
<toretore> because it's supposed to block the current thread
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<judofyr> seems to work as long as it's not empty:
<judofyr> ruby -rthread -e'q=Queue.new;q << 123; p q.pop'
<toretore> so now i'm using an array + mutex + pipe
<toretore> yeah, but try it on an empty q
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<judofyr> you can call #empty? first
<toretore> yeah but it's also supposed to be a synchronization point
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<toretore> i.e. i want it to block when empty
<toretore> thus the pipe and select
<judofyr> if it's only a single thread that's running, how can something push to it when it's empty?
<toretore> inside an event handler
<toretore> so it's basically exactly like an event loop at this point
<judofyr> (I'm sure you're right, I'm just trying to figure out what you're doing :) )
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<toretore> haha, yeah i agree it can seem like a useless excercise
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<toretore> and it probably is. i immediately subclassed with a ThreadedScheduler which runs inside a thread
<judofyr> :)
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<judofyr> programming potentially useless stuff is never a waste IMO
<judofyr> at least when you're doing it for fun
<toretore> yeah
<toretore> for me it's about making as few assumptions as i possibly can
<judofyr> (if someone forces you to implement a crappy useless feature it's something else)
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<toretore> i regularly encounter issues with other libs where assumptions were made that were not true for me
<toretore> you gotta give it to the java guys, their libraries are massively complex, but they don't make assumptions about how you want to use them
<judofyr> assumptions (and having the same definitions/vocabulary) is crucial in programming, and often not documented
<toretore> yeah
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<toretore> it's much harder to write without making (as many) assumptions
<toretore> and to decide which assumptions are ok
<judofyr> some Java API could have been designed with some assumptions in mind though
<toretore> haha i guess
<toretore> or at least defaults
<judofyr> yeah, assumptions are fine. you just need to be aware of them.
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<toretore> well
<toretore> it's one of my biggest gripes with ruby libraries
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<toretore> some are perfect for some % of use cases, and just don't work for the rest
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<judofyr> yeah, I don't really get the guys who claims Ruby has a great ecosystem
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<judofyr> I mean, it's big, but most of it is crap
<judofyr> (hah, way to insult everyone in this channel)
<judofyr> s/guys/peeps/g
<judofyr> basically everything that builds on Rails is heavily integrated with a single version of Rails :/
<toretore> yeah the ruby ecosystem kind of sucks
<toretore> i don't mean to be a dick, but when compared to others there is a lack of quality and craftmanship
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<judofyr> define "others" :)
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<gpg_> can somepne explain this code to me result = Hash.new {|k, v| k[v] = [] }
<toretore> java? :P
<gpg_> thank you
<gpg_> specfically k[v] = []
<apeiros> gpg_: oddly named variables
<toretore> the block is executed when a key is not found in the hash
<apeiros> should be { |h, k|
<toretore> yes ^
<apeiros> h[k] = [] # assign an empty array to the hash at key k
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<toretore> look up Hash#default_proc gpg_
<apeiros> >> h = {}; k = :key; h[k] = []; h
<Mon_Robot> apeiros: => {:key=>[]} (https://eval.in/172998)
<judofyr> >> result = Hash.new { |h, k| k.upcase }; result["foo"]
<Mon_Robot> judofyr: => "FOO" (https://eval.in/172999)
<judofyr> toretore: fair enough :)
<gpg_> thanks guys
<judofyr> \o/
<gpg_> \o/ :)
<toretore> judofyr: another example i think is go, which is a pretty new language but with a robust set of libraries
<judofyr> toretore: I think the stdlib is great
<toretore> (AFAIK though, i haven't done much go)
<yorickpeterse> Jesus, New Relic's agent is quite the beast to set up outside of a Rack environment
<toretore> yeah stdlib is great
<judofyr> haven't played with other stuff
<judofyr> toretore: but the type system (no generics) and error handling (two-style arguments) is crap
<toretore> me neither, so i'm basically just pulling this out of thin air, which i shouldn't
<toretore> i don't know go well enough to have an opinion on that
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<toretore> yorickpeterse: they don't have a library that just submits whatever to their servers?
<judofyr> toretore: Go got a lot right though. decent stdlib. great deployment alternative. built-in package manager.
<toretore> yeah
<judofyr> (not a fan of package names being based on an URL though)
<toretore> i like that i can create binaries
<apeiros> I'm a fan of reverse DNS notation for package ID
<toretore> i.e. it doesn't use an interpreter
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<apeiros> IMO not optimal, far from it, but much better than what we have :-/
<toretore> apeiros: com.apeiros.mylib ?
<apeiros> toretore: like that
<apeiros> +yes,
<ljarvis> just makes me think of java
<apeiros> java isn't all bad :)
<toretore> i don't like that in particular, but i like the idea of dot notation and the hierarchical structure
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<apeiros> I like the idea of not having namesquatters
<toretore> i mean, com, net and org?
<ljarvis> sure, I don't mind java
<judofyr> apieros: for me it's more about being able to move a project from github.com to bitbucket.org without requiring all the users to change they're packages
<apeiros> could also have com.rubygems.username.mylib for easy entry
<judofyr> why bother with the com. ?
<apeiros> because you'd want a verification
<judofyr> apieros.mylib
<judofyr> oh, you want to tie it to DNS?
<toretore> judofyr: this is something they do in docker too, where the image tag has the uri as part of it
<apeiros> yes. otherwise you've just moved the squatter problem
<judofyr> is name squatting a problem?
<apeiros> but you can implement it in a way (e.g. with the com.rubygems.username.mylib) that you usually get off with mylib, and in rare cases username.mylib
<toretore> i'd rather prefer a system where you have a list of sources, like in rubygems
<judofyr> toretore++
<judofyr> or +1
<toretore> += 1
<apeiros> toretore: yes. that's the natural complement. which allows what I just said :)
<toretore> :)
* toretore .succ
<apeiros> judofyr: and yes, namesquatting is a problem
<apeiros> generically named libs, unmaintained libs, …
<apeiros> test beacons
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<toretore> in ruby too. someone took the name i was going to use for my lib :/
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<apeiros> I meant in ruby :)
<judofyr> what about GitHub's approach? <username>/<projectname>
<apeiros> hence my original "better than what we have now"
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<toretore> apeiros: oh right
<toretore> apeiros: yeah that's why i'd prefer something hierarchical like name.lib
<toretore> author.lib
<apeiros> judofyr: why not go the full way? use github as a source in your sources list which allows you to drop the com.github
<toretore> yuck
<toretore> lock in alert!
<apeiros> that way you have a scaling system
<apeiros> also no lock-in as you're not tied to a single service
<apeiros> see rubyforge :-/
<toretore> oh you mean just the username/lib part?
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<judofyr> apieros: I'd like a DNS-style source list where I can register `judofyr/foobar => https://github.com/judofyr/foobar.git`
<toretore> didn't github use to be a gem source?
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<apeiros> judofyr: I'd want: sources: ['com.rubygems.myself', 'com.rubygems.ruby-core', 'com.rubygems', 'com.github']
<toretore> that's a good idea, decoupling the source list from the actual files
<apeiros> and now when I do `gem install foo`, it'll search com.rubygems.myself and com.rubygems.ruby-core
<apeiros> if I do `gem install judofyr.foobar`, it'll search com.rubygems and com.github
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<toretore> you know, there's nothing stopping us from naming our gems author.name
<apeiros> peer pressure :-(
<apeiros> (gem naming guideline, in this instance)
<judofyr> apieros: I don't like the implicit part there. I want `gem install foo.bar` to always install foo.bar, not com.rubyforge.foo.bar or something)
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<toretore> yeah, but they're *guidelines* :)
<judofyr> apieros: and how do people refer to a library? how is it required?
<judofyr> but the last part?
<apeiros> judofyr: there wouldn't be a foo.bar in that world. it'd work similarly as to how require+$LOAD_PATH works
<judofyr> or the full path?
<toretore> hm
<toretore> require 'foo/bar/file'
<toretore> i think that's ok
<toretore> make it consistent
<apeiros> judofyr: sources are path of the path. add them to $LOAD_PATH and you don't need fully qualified
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<apeiros> but yeah, details would need to be cleared up
<judofyr> apieros: that's the part I don't like. I'd like to decouple where packages come from their name.
<judofyr> e.g: mirrors
<judofyr> mirrors should just be another source, but it should not change how people require it
<apeiros> valid point
<toretore> is this in regards to the com.whatever part?
<judofyr> also: dependencies
<apeiros> but you could list the mirrors
<pvelidi> Hi Guys .. need some help regarding Ruby RDoc. I was able to generate the documentation for my ruby class file. However if i wanted to also include some sample code as to how to use my class just beneath each method in the documentation. is there any method to add some chunk of sample code in RDoc.
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<judofyr> also: I'm not sure if I'm going to bother implement this for Ruby…
<apeiros> sources: [], mirrors: […]
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<judofyr> pvelidi: I think RDoc supports Markdown these days.
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<yxhuvud> it is quite possible to have several sources that is not mirrors though. making it possible to select which source to fetch from could be necessary.
<apeiros> you could provide mirrors as either "might mirror everything" or "mirrors only com.foo"
<judofyr> apieros: I'd like sources and mirrors to be the same thing :) unification!
<pvelidi> judofyr, i googled many times regarding that feature, came up with nothing. isnt it popular already
<toretore> yxhuvud: doesn't bundler support that?
<yxhuvud> toretore: no idea.
<apeiros> judofyr: IMO they aren't the same. as source should IMO be verified. A mirror only needs verification that it really mirrors what it says it mirrors.
<gpg_> result = Hash.new {|h, k| h[k] = [] } Modifiers.all.each do |it| result[it.product_category_id] << it.modifier_id end * OUTPUT is: { 7: [5, 4, 54, 55] } { 8: [6] } { 93: [7] } *also here's db values * http://stackoverflow.com/questions/24675023/iterate-over-rails-active-record-model * Question is how does the iteration only collect the modifier_id for product_category_id 7 for example? Is there a way of seeing what iteration does
<toretore> apeiros: i don't think verification is necessary
<apeiros> judofyr: but I'd have to think about that. I do think proper mirror handling is important. also proper local gemserver handling would be a good idea.
<toretore> apeiros: anyone should be able to list any uri as their source
<pvelidi> judofyr, thanks for the link ..
<judofyr> gpg_: use gist.github.com or pastie.org for pasting
<yxhuvud> toretore: I know it is possible to set several soruces, but I dunno if it is possible to specify where something should be fetched from.
<gpg_> judofyr: ok will do
<apeiros> toretore: insecure by default has proven to be a recipe for disaster
<whitequark> thin is such a piece of shit
<whitequark> it segfaults on ruby >=2 for at least a year by now
<judofyr> haha, hi whitequark
<apeiros> toretore: I'm ok with allowing insecure sources through options. but by default? :-O
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<pvelidi> judofyr, that page is long, takes some time to go through .. really appreciate your help ..
<whitequark> hi judofyr
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<judofyr> apieros: I've always been a fan of including checksums everywhere. and signing checksums instead of signing packages themselves.
<judofyr> and storing checksums in Gemfile.lock (or similar)
<apeiros> judofyr: that's useless if your source is the same as the checksum provider
<toretore> yxhuvud: ah no it supports :git as a git source, not gem source
<apeiros> ok, storing the checksum in the gemfile.lock is interesting
<toretore> apeiros: how do you define insecure (or secure)?
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<apeiros> toretore: while I'd love to discuss that, I'm utterly unprepared for it right now. far too broad a topic. sorry :(
<judofyr> whitequark: all OCaml these days?
<whitequark> judofyr: mostly
<judofyr> whitequark: professionally or spare time?
<toretore> apeiros: no prob, me too, that's why i asked :)
<apeiros> toretore: also the end of that discussion would be me on your throat again, no? :-p
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<toretore> lol
<whitequark> judofyr: both
<judofyr> coll
<judofyr> cool*
<judofyr> tore^2 apieros: I think we mostly agree about this
<apeiros> na, I'm usually only jumpy when I've a headache.
<toretore> apeiros: wrt that last discussion i thought about it and i understand what it is you meant now.. concurrent execution of *code*
<judofyr> I'm not going to build it though
<apeiros> toretore: I thought about it too and forgot all the arguments again :D
<judofyr> whitequark: btw, have you seen any languages which solves generics using a Foundry-type system of full compile-time executable code
<toretore> yeah, but you were right for your definition of concurrency
<apeiros> though, the mutex/semaphore requirement is probably the best
<apeiros> anyway, nice that you came back about it
<judofyr> whitequark: as in: Foo<Bar> actually invokes the Foo-function at compile-time with the Bar-type as a parameter.
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<toretore> judofyr apeiros i don't actually think (my view of) this would require any changes in the rubygems system
<judofyr> whitequark: seems like a possible way to implement generics + macros in the same system
<toretore> just a change in naming
<judofyr> "just"
<apeiros> :D
<toretore> sure, but it's just a change in convention
<toretore> no code changes
<judofyr> source format needs to be changed a bit as well
<toretore> and it's opt-in
<judofyr> source list*
<toretore> how so?
<apeiros> gtg, wifey back
<judofyr> or what part are you thinking about now?
<judofyr> just <author>.<packagename>?
<toretore> to me the changes are as follows: use hierarchical names with dot notation, use the same name in require but separated by /
<toretore> source functionality stays the same
<judofyr> another problem: name clashes. what's the point if you can't load both toretore.foo and judofyr.foo in the same runtime?
<toretore> source 'http://example.com'; gem 'toretore.async.fiberloop'
<toretore> require 'toretore/async/fiberloop'
<toretore> judofyr: they would be in different modules
<toretore> right, that's another convention that would need to be followed
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<toretore> ToreTore::Foo and Judofyr::Foo
<judofyr> right
<toretore> ideally you could load different versions as well :)
<toretore> but that's difficult
<judofyr> yep
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<judofyr> oh well, I've kinda given up on Ruby as a ecosystem now
<whitequark> judofyr: I'm convinced that's a bad idea anyway
<toretore> as for the security aspect; you would control the list of sources you want to use, and use ssl or w/e, that's decoupled from the naming scheme
<judofyr> whitequark: care to elaborate?
<judofyr> if you have time
<yxhuvud> judofyr: do you have an example of a different ecosystem that you would prefer?
<whitequark> judofyr: you want to conflate macros and generics
<whitequark> this rips you off the benefits of staging
<judofyr> yxhuvud: (1) allowing multiple packages to co-exist in the same runtime. either by convention (Perl packages) or sandboxes (Node.js). (2) one solution for browsing documentation (MetaCPAN, godoc).
<judofyr> that would be a good start
<toretore> rdoc.info works well for #2
<judofyr> (1) is basically "Don't behave like ActiveSupport"
<judofyr> rdoc.info works except when it doesn't :)
<judofyr> as in, when gem authors puts documentation other places
<judofyr> whitequark: staging?
<toretore> oh you mean outside the code?
<toretore> there could be a convention for that!
<toretore> (i love standards and conventions)
<judofyr> toretore: for instance. or if someone uses TomDoc instead of YARD
<toretore> right
<judofyr> conventions are fine. but right now they don't exist.
<whitequark> judofyr: at some point you want to be able to tell "I'm not going to execute any code anymore"
<toretore> well, it's not righ to make everyone use yard either..
<whitequark> specifically, it must happen before typechecking, or it'll be undecidable
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<whitequark> which is probably possible to make a language upon, but is a spectacularly bad idea
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<judofyr> whitequark: right. after you've parsed the input-file once, all macros are resolved.
<whitequark> so, well, I've been convinced by my own creations that a macro + parametric type system is much better what I tried to do
<judofyr> *nods*
<whitequark> it's more generic, less convoluted, and has MUCH less corner cases
<judofyr> I guess it's because I don't really know the details behind parametric type systems
<judofyr> they feel tricky to me
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<whitequark> they're really simple inside
<whitequark> the ML value restriction paper gives a good introduction, IIRC
<whitequark> or you can ask at #ocaml
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<pvelidi> judofyr, i think the feature is actually present in the rdocs all along ..
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<pvelidi> # Download the url off the internet and hand over the response object to caller.
<pvelidi> # [params] *url* -> points to the http link that needs to be downloaded
<pvelidi> # [returns] *response* -> return response object of type Net::HTTPFound class
<pvelidi> #require 'net/http'
<pvelidi> #
<pvelidi> #response = Net::HTTP.get(URI("http://google.com/"))
<pvelidi> #puts response.class
<pvelidi> #
<judofyr> pvelidi: yikes. try to not paste into IRC :)
<pvelidi> oh .. :)
<judofyr> pvelidi: gist.github.com or pastie.org
<pvelidi> hold on ..
<ljarvis> pvelidi: The topic says "Paste code on gist.github.com"
<judofyr> ljarvis: didn't realize you were an op here
<ljarvis> I have been blessed with the burdon
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<pvelidi> judofyr, http://pastie.org/9429581
<ljarvis> burden
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<ljarvis> or something
<judofyr> ljarvis: bourbon?
<pvelidi> the last 2 lines are picked up as if they are ruby code and got code highlighted
<ljarvis> judofyr: :D
<ljarvis> pvelidi: they are ruby code
<pvelidi> yes .. but i didn't know that i can embed ruby code in the RDoc to push some sample code into documentation earlier
<pvelidi> :D
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<ljarvis> ah right, yes it uses 'rdoc' formatting (or markdown) which uses 4 spaces for code (I think)
<judofyr> toretore: anyway, nice talking to you
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<judofyr> going off the grid for some days, then more physics
<judofyr> so yeah, probably not going to hang around here much
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<judofyr> later peeps
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<seamon> From a pragmatic point of view, or a semantic, what would be best? An additional keyword aka :import to add module-like functionality to a class or a modified version of :include?
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<centrx> What's different about it versus require/include/extend ?
<seamon> It “imports” a subclass of Module with some additional functionality.
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<centrx> seamon, Like adding namespacing support a la Python's import?
<seamon> Yeah?
<centrx> Is that what you mean?
<seamon> Yes
<centrx> cool
<centrx> To me, that seems more the province of require (or new "import"), as opposed to include
<centrx> include already allows accessing namespaces, using the ::
<centrx> whereas require only works with the directories, and ends up grabbing everything
<seamon> This is more of a language level than a file level feature
<centrx> seamon, Also try asking in #ruby that channel is usually more active
<seamon> Thanks for input
<seamon> Ok
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<whitequark> centrx: why do you even need a keywrd for that?
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<whitequark> "import foo.bar" → "Bar = Foo::Bar" or something.
<centrx> whitequark, Foo::Bar and all of its friends are in the namespace already, there could be conflicts, or maybe you don't want to load the entire file when you do require
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* whitequark checks the channel name
<whitequark> how is it related to ruby?
<centrx> whitequark, Of course, we handle that through conventions like one class per file, a Python-like import would have some use
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<centrx> Apparently an enterprising young seamon intends to add this feature...to something
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<yorickpeterse> seamon: Neither
<yorickpeterse> If you want to run something when a module is included, overwrite "self.included" in the module
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<yorickpeterse> e.g.
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<yorickpeterse> >> module Foobar; def self.included(by); p "Hello #{by}"; end; end; class A; include Foobar; end
<Mon_Robot> yorickpeterse: => "Hello A"... (https://eval.in/173039)
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<seamon> Sorry, I’m all confused. I’m new at this, self.included seems the way to go…
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<yorickpeterse> seanhagen: Fear not young grasshopper, one day you too shall walk the path of enlightment
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<seanhagen> yorickpeterse: i think your autocomplete picked the wrong name =P
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<yorickpeterse> DANG IT
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<jaks_75> I need to pass keyboard events to a "backticks" process, to make it interactive. How? Example `nmap -sV 127.0.0.1 1>&2`
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<whitequark> use open3
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<jaks_75> whitequark: Open3.popen3()?
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<whitequark> yes
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<jaks_75> whitequark: does not work with my physical keyboard...
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<yorickpeterse> "the preceding-sibling axis contains all the preceding siblings of the context node"
<yorickpeterse> wat
* yorickpeterse doesn't really like the W3 Xpath spec
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* yorickpeterse is now reading w3schools for more info, oh dead
<yorickpeterse> * dear
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<jhass> yeah, MDN lacks a xpath section. Even MSDN has one
<jhass> oh, there's one now: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/XPath but it's not too useful
<yorickpeterse> Trying to figure out what the darn difference is between following and following-sibling
<yorickpeterse> From what I can gather they pretty much do the same thing
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<jhass> I think following goes to the end of the document
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<jhass> so for a, in <p><a/><b/></p><c/> is b following and following-sibling but c is only following
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<yorickpeterse> euh, no
<yorickpeterse> at least, if you were to query p/a/following::c that wouldn't return anything
<yorickpeterse> neither if you use //a/following::c
* yorickpeterse is probably missing something here
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<jhass> in nokogiri //a/following::c does return c
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<yorickpeterse> Euh, no it doesn't
<yorickpeterse> Nokogiri::XML('<p><a/><b/></p><c/>').xpath('//a/following::c') # => []
<jhass> oh great, that differs between ::HTML and ::XML
<yorickpeterse> Ah yeah derp, that's invalid XML
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<yorickpeterse> needs a single root element, whoever came up with that
<jhass> yeah, add a common root and it works for ::XML too
<yorickpeterse> ugh, why did I start working on this
<yorickpeterse> at least CSS selectors aren't as breaindead
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<yorickpeterse> "Following axis: following siblings and their children and their children, etc." Oh great, contradicting docs too
<yorickpeterse> From the spec: "the following axis contains all nodes in the same document as the context node that are after the context node in document order, excluding any descendants and excluding attribute nodes and namespace nodes"
<yorickpeterse> (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
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<jhass> MDN says "Indicates all the nodes that appear after the context node, except any descendant, attribute, and namespace nodes."
<yorickpeterse> Yeah so my guess is that they mean "except descendants *of the current context*"
<yorickpeterse> And not "except *any* descendants"
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<jhass> interesting, the MDN one is copy pasted from the MSDN docs
<yorickpeterse> For an organization paid to write docs (and bend over to media companies) the W3 is exceptionally bad at speccing things
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<yorickpeterse> Yeah so it seems "following" *does* take the descendants of nodes *after* the context one
<yorickpeterse> ugh
<yorickpeterse> http://www.xmlplease.com/axis#s2.6 this is actually pretty useful now that I know it's not bullshit
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<David__> noob question do people favour rvm or rbenv these days?
<jhass> it's mostly camp stuff, no real clear tendency
<jhass> there's also the chruby camp
<yorickpeterse> David__: whatever works best for them
<David__> ok cool
<jhass> so, pick what you like
<David__> I have played around with rvm but haven't used rbenv yet
<David__> will give it a look and see what I think
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<yorickpeterse> jhass: but yeah, thanks for the rubber ducking
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