apeiros changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: RIP Jim || Ruby 2.1.1; 2.0.0-p451; 1.9.3-p545: http://ruby-lang.org || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com
<MHQ-Johnny> Hey, quick question, I'm not Ruby savvy and I finally got redmine to play nice with nginx+unicorn, but my issue is when I restart unicorn to change settings in configuration.yml in redmine, the first hit will throw a 500, but then work just fine. The error after the 500 is logged: https://paste.gparent.org/298 any ideas?
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<brixen> yorickpeterse: do have that bench wrapped up somewhere I can easily fetch and run it?
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<instantaphex> can someone help me understand a block of code?
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<centrx> instantaphex, A block is like a lambda
<|jemc|> the typical IRC mantra is: don't ask to ask
<|jemc|> (just ask)
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<yorickpeterse> morning
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<ljarvis> moin
<ljarvis> no work today yey
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<yorickpeterse> wat
<yorickpeterse> u hvn a day off m8?
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<yorickpeterse> also this kid in my train just can't shut up
<ljarvis> ye i gotz fukin wedin m8
<ljarvis> also i dunno why i yey, i like my job
<ljarvis> and weddings are meh
<ljarvis> so FUCK I WISH I WAS WORKING TODAY
<yorickpeterse> bring a laptop to the wedding
<ljarvis> good idea
<ljarvis> then everyone will also know im pretencious with my macbook pro
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<ljarvis> also my fiancee just brought me the best breakfast
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<yorickpeterse> yo does anybody know of any particular reason why the amount of network timeouts would go up in MRI 2.1.1 compared to 1.9.3?
<yorickpeterse> charliesome: ^^^
<charliesome> iunno
<yorickpeterse> noticing a pretty big increase
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<yorickpeterse> Hm, interesting enough it seems the average amount of timeouts is still roughly the same
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<yorickpeterse> charliesome: I can't change settings set using RUBY_GC_HEAP_OLDOBJECT_LIMIT_FACTOR during runtime right?
<yorickpeterse> That is, from within Ruby itself
<charliesome> nope
<yorickpeterse> dang it
<charliesome> maybe you could with fiddle
<charliesome> not officially sanctioned advice, fyi btw ;)
<yorickpeterse> nah, I can write a wrapper script
<yorickpeterse> That is, script X that normally starts the app runs a subshell, sets that variable *then* starts the app
<yorickpeterse> otherwise I have to fuck around with re-imaging a bunch of things and what not
<yorickpeterse> first lets see if it actually works on one instance
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<yorickpeterse> Hm, using that option I'm seeing a nice drop
<yorickpeterse> 173 MB RSS instead of 230 MB
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<yorickpeterse> time to deploy that bad boy to all the things
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<karamazov> Anyone here work with Octopress? I'm trying to work on it locally but am finding having to do rake generate, rake preview, rake watch after every change a bit tedious
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<badeball> from rspec peaking at 2.4 GB allocated: Errno::ENOMEM: Cannot allocate memory
<badeball> :(
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<yorickpeterse> stop leaking memory
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<badeball> I'm running the test suite of formtastic
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<yorickpeterse> ha
<yorickpeterse> ha
* yorickpeterse cries
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<yorickpeterse> Seriously, Rubies should just raise an error when you try to call GC.stop
<yorickpeterse> Not even ignore it (e.g. as Rbx does), just flat out raise
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<yorickpeterse> badeball: try disabling that GC crap, 5 bucks your memory usage goes down
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<yorickpeterse> also willing to bet it doesn't really speed up anything on newer Rubies
<ohsix> do .after(:all) or .before race if there's multiple things wanting to do stuff last
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<badeball> yorickpeterse: oh wow, I did not notice that
<badeball> memory usage dropped to nearly nothing
<badeball> what the hell
<elia> lol
<yorickpeterse> badeball: pull request that fucker
<yorickpeterse> Probably something from the 1.8 days
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<elia> 3 years ago says the commit
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<yorickpeterse> meanwhile I'm cargo culting Linux kernel configs to see if I can get network timeouts to go down
<badeball> most likely. formtastic is like a dinosaur, depending on things from a time where stuff used to be difficult
<yorickpeterse> heh
<yorickpeterse> seems me messing around only made things worse, though I did double the amount of threads in this particular process
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<yorickpeterse> also hard to figure out if this is a problem with Ruby or the kernel
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<whitequark> why do you even poke kernel if you only changed Ruby?
<yorickpeterse> because we had the problems for a while now, even before the switch
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<yorickpeterse> I poked around before as well but couldn't find a darn thing
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<yorickpeterse> Hell, I even booted a m14.turbo.super.lange EC2 instance with 256 cores and god knows what, same problems
<whitequark> mmh. could be a coincidence
<whitequark> why do you think amount of cores correlates with amount of timeouts?
<yorickpeterse> It doesn't, I just picked the biggest instance there was
<yorickpeterse> which happened to have like 128 cores or something
<yorickpeterse> also had the best network performance according to AWS
<whitequark> well, performance isn't your problem
<yorickpeterse> Hm, 32 apparently
<yorickpeterse> "performance isn't your problem" what?
<yorickpeterse> it sure as hell is, it saves money
<yorickpeterse> and customer complaints
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<whitequark> no, I mean, timeouts aren't "performance" in the narrow definition of it. they're probably caused by congestion somewhere
<yorickpeterse> Oh right
<yorickpeterse> well, the amount of stuff going on network wise is not anywhere near zomg level
<whitequark> and unless you have utilized your ec2 instance badly enough that it simply cannot process incoming packets in time, adding more cores won't help
<yorickpeterse> e.g. atm I'm only counting roughly 70 open network connections on an entire instance
<whitequark> well, if every one is downloading a gigabyte of XML at maximum speed, that can easily be a problem
<whitequark> take a look at iftop or something
<yorickpeterse> they're not, they're all burst connections of small payloads
<yorickpeterse> oh I have
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<whitequark> ok. I see.
<yorickpeterse> That's part of the problem: the monitoring tools I threw at it in the past didn't really make anything stand out
<whitequark> what exactly reports a timeout?
<yorickpeterse> The Ruby layer, that is it raises things like Timeout::Error
<yorickpeterse> even with a timeout set to 30 seconds
<yorickpeterse> basically whatever value I set it to it ends up timing out quite a bit
<whitequark> mmh
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<yorickpeterse> which suggests congestion to me
<whitequark> any locks you have there?
<yorickpeterse> nop
<whitequark> it's possible that a thread would be starved
<whitequark> ok
<whitequark> weird
<whitequark> if I was you, I'd make the ruby process report local ephemeral port on every connection when it starts and times out, and then use wireshark to look at the dump
<whitequark> perhaps that would reveal something interesting
<yorickpeterse> hm
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<apeiros> method name: deindent or unindent?
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<DefV> remove_indentation
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<toretore> outdent
<apeiros> it can reduce indentation too, not just completely remove it
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<DefV> reduce_indentation then
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<Silex> decrease/increase indentation?
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<Silex> apeiros: would you be ok to merge this chan with #ruby?
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<apeiros> Silex: it's not like I'd have any say in such a matter. you may be asking the wrong person ;-)
<Silex> apeiros: thought you were op, sorry then
<apeiros> I am
<apeiros> but op != owner
<Silex> do you know the owner's take on this?
<yorickpeterse> "no" is my bet
<apeiros> I doubt he'd agree
<apeiros> he goes by the nick fflush
<Silex> this is so silly imho
<apeiros> chanserv can give you such info
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<Silex> I'll ask again in two years. Thanks
<DefV> I agree, it's silly
<apeiros> lol
<oddmunds> :)
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<apeiros> meh, I don't like *_indentation
<apeiros> I'll go with deindent
<oddmunds> i haven't been in #ruby for ages, i think i'll give it a visit again
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<whitequark> #ruby has too much traffic for my taste
<apeiros> I'd like the idea of #ruby redirecting to #ruby-lang and having a #ruby-learning channel
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<yorickpeterse> threads amount goes up, timeouts go up
<yorickpeterse> you can't expla...well actually you can
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<apeiros> could somebody please try to join #ruby-learning ? want to test whether redirect works
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<whitequark> it does
<apeiros> thanks, it works :)
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<toretore> there should be a #ruby-unlearning to unlearn metaprogramming and other bad practices
<whitequark> metaprogramming is not a bad practice
<yorickpeterse> isn't that what #go, #node, #rust, etc are for?
<DefV> why is metaprogramming bad practice?
<whitequark> node.js, however, is
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<Silex> DefV: when abused it is
<DefV> example?
<apeiros> hm, ThisIsCamelCase, butWhatIsThis ?
<toretore> dromedaryCase
<whitequark> ^
<apeiros> lol
<apeiros> WP says lower camel case
<Silex> DefV: essentially it all boils down to "when it makes it really hard to reason about the code statically"
<yorickpeterse> apeiros: actually
<yorickpeterse> FooBarBaz is PascalCase
<yorickpeterse> fooBarBaz is camelCase
<apeiros> "this is also known as Pascal case or bumpy case"
<apeiros> I go with the primary denomination
<apeiros> and accept WP as universal truth™
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<DefV> Silex: ok, but attr_accessor :foo is also metaprogramming.. and has_many :foo too
<whitequark> ruby makes it really hard to reason about the code in general
<whitequark> because anything could be mutated at any time from anywhere (except local variables if you don't explicitly pass binding around)
<whitequark> "bad" metaprogramming is merely a symptom of a deeper problem
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<Mon_Ouie> You don't need to explicitly pass bindings around, you can just implicitly pass them around by calling a method with a block :)
<toretore> that's like saying guns kill people
<apeiros> oh, ruby has titlecase
<DefV> guns don't kill people
<whitequark> toretore: that is true though. no guns = no gun deaths
<DefV> monkeys with guns kill people
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<whitequark> can't argue with that.
<toretore> whitequark: but a gun doesn't kill anyone without being triggered
<DefV> whitequark: but no guns = more knife deaths
<whitequark> and, unlike imperfect real world, in programming languages it is possible to entirely get rid of something
<toretore> and mutation in ruby doesn't happen without someone mutating
<whitequark> toretore: that implies that you need to perfectly know *all* of the code that is loaded at any time to reason about an arbitrarily small fragment of it
<whitequark> I mean, what you're saying is true, it's just not helping.
<DefV> I think it's fair to make assumptions whitequark
<toretore> and yes, bad metaprogramming includes poking around where you shouldn't
<toretore> whitequark: quite the opposite, actually. you can assume that mutation will not happen where you do not expect it to
<whitequark> and then someone goes and mutates things, and your code mysteriously breaks
<toretore> sure
<whitequark> aka the eventual outcome of every monkey patch ever
<toretore> immutable data structures = no guns allowed
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<toretore> whitequark: which is exactly what i mean by bad metaprogramming
<whitequark> I'm not saying that no language should ever allow mutate random things. I'm saying that allowing mutating random things has an enormous cost, and you'd better justify it by something great.
<toretore> bad practices that should be unlearned
<whitequark> "bad practices", sigh
<elia> just saying
<whitequark> the Rails project I'm currently working on depends on 250+ gems
<whitequark> and quite a few of their authors indulge in bad practices at every fucking line of their code
<whitequark> it's not remotely practical to even review all of that, much less rewrite it properly
<apeiros> seeing old clever code of mine makes me happy
<toretore> that you've changed? :)
<whitequark> you're talking about some perfect world where you can simply not use external code which uses "bad practices". you can't.
<toretore> i'm talking about people not doing stupid crap in their code, especially when they intend to release it as a library
<whitequark> you can't even quickly decide whether a certain piece of code contains those "bad practices" or not, because the question is so intractable
<whitequark> exactly!
<toretore> mutability assumes some amount of responsibility
<whitequark> people do stupid crap all the time, for a variety of reasons
<whitequark> you can't change people, but you can change the language so that their stupid crap won't affect your stupid crap
<toretore> it's difficult to define "stupid crap", but you know it when you see it
<toretore> sure. but i don't think ruby's data structures will become immutable any time soon
<whitequark> again: do you suggest I review all of the dependencies that I use, spending a *lot* of time deciding on whether this will explode or not?
<toretore> i've said no such thing
<toretore> i'm just noting that a lot of people write stupid crap
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<toretore> and they should stop
<whitequark> lol, and I'd like the sun to be green
<apeiros> toretore: actually in this case it's enjoying the old code as it is. reusing it.
<toretore> but then i'll probably say the same thing about my own code from now in 5 years
<whitequark> that is probably more likely to happen than people stopping to write stupid crap.
<toretore> so all this means that you as the user of a library must review the code to some degree if you want to avoid stupid crap
<toretore> :(
<DefV> hm
<DefV> I assume libraries are wellbehaved citizens
<DefV> and on the off change they're not I'll go down the rabbit hole
<whitequark> toretore: yes, and my point is that this is bad (language) design.
<DefV> I prefer that over the more defensive model
<toretore> my initial point was that this stupid crap is taught very widely
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<whitequark> which may or may not be justified by other parts of the design.
<toretore> DefV: i assume the opposite
<toretore> lessons learned through experience
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<toretore> whitequark: but the language being "fixed" is even more unlikely to happen..
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<whitequark> toretore: it won't, this is a problem inherent in most dynamic languages
<whitequark> considered a feature by some, even
<whitequark> if you want to use Ruby, you have to accept it. *shrug*
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<toretore> which pushes the responsibility from the language over to the programmer
<apeiros> ah, lol, damn, I was in a rails console. not ruby has titlecase - rails does :-D
<whitequark> yep
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<apeiros> rails' String#camelcase seems stupidly complex…
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<toretore> the method names should follow the format they describe
<toretore> String#camelCase
<toretore> String#UPCASE
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<toretore> this would probably be describes as "wow, this is so natural! it's exactly why i use ruby!" by someone
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<apeiros> heh
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<Silex> DefV: "when abused"
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<devkinetic> HI all, I have a silly question. I am trying to get started with ruby development and I am on windows. I realize I don't exactly need a great computer to wite and test code. A friend just gave me a powermac g5 1.6, Would it be useful at all for me to try setting up for development, or should I donate it for scrap
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<Burgestrand> Oo. PowerPC eh. Does ruby run on powerpc at all?
<bougyman> it dose
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<Burgestrand> That’s kinda cool.
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<Burgestrand> devkinetic: I can’t speak for your particular machine there, but I sometimes run ruby on a raspberry pi and it works well. It’s not very fast, but it is possible to work on it.
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<Burgestrand> devkinetic: I would assume that the raspberry pi is somewhat… slower than your powermac.
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<devkinetic> Burgestrand: I'd assume so, but it runs much cooler... I guess I'd just like to be using the same OS as every developer I see working with ruby.
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<Burgestrand> devkinetic: I’d give the powerpc a try if I were you. Worst case you’ll just have to go back to using windows for development; it’s a viable OS for ruby development, even if one can sometimes feel a bit left out of the ruby world on windows some times.
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<devkinetic> Burgestrand: I definitely do. I've been trying to pick at ruby for about 3 years now and always feel a few paces behind the herd using windows. I am wondering if searching for PPC binaries for ruby etc is going to suck up all my time.
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<Burgestrand> devkinetic: I would assume your first stop for ruby on powerpc would be the same as for everyone else: http://rvm.io/
<Burgestrand> … but I really have no idea. I started with mac in the beginning of the intel era.
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<devkinetic> Burgestrand: Well in either case, it will make for an interesting weekend project. I'll give it a try. Thanks for your comments.
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<Burgestrand> devkinetic: remember, most installation issues have been run into by somebody else before you! ;)
<devkinetic> Burgestrand: True, but the boards and sites they were posted to don't always exist anymore
<devkinetic> :D
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<Burgestrand> devkinetic: that is true, but you have some collective knowledge in here. :)
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<yorickpeterse> Mainly due to running MRI 2.1 using RUBY_GC_HEAP_OLDOBJECT_LIMIT_FACTOR=1.2
<DefV> nice
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<alexdowad> hi
<alexdowad> anyone here?
<elia> hi
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<alexdowad> has anyone else had trouble compiling Ruby 2.1.1 from tarball?
<alexdowad> it's like it's missing a bunch of files which are present if you clone through git
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<elia> never tried, did you git submodule --update --init
<alexdowad> I'm trying to compile from tarball
<alexdowad> over ssh
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<elia> alexdowad, sorry, misread the message
<alexdowad> compiling the git checkout on my local PC is no problem
<alexdowad> if I just have to do a git clone, it's fine
<alexdowad> but the machine I am ssh'd into has slow Internet
<alexdowad> unfortunate to have to clone the entire history of the Ruby codebase
<elia> alexdowad, I'd try diffing the dirs to see what's missing exactly
<alexdowad> rather than the code which is just needed to compile
<alexdowad> a ton of stuff
<alexdowad> that's why I'm wondering, are the official tarballs totally bogus?
<elia> alexdowad, maybe a git clone --depth=1 will do…
<alexdowad> oh
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<alexdowad> never seen clone --depth
<elia> ;)
<alexdowad> another question
<elia> shoot
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<alexdowad> sorry, someone talking to me.
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<alexdowad> sorry, someone came to my office to ask a question
<alexdowad> my other question was...
<alexdowad> right, in the Ruby codebase
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<alexdowad> I see tags for v2_0_0_rc1, v2_1_0_rc1...
<alexdowad> but no tags for the stable releases
<alexdowad> I'd like to check out the stable release code and scp it over
<alexdowad> hmm. only branch is "trunk"
<alexdowad> hmm. I'll try git log --grep
<alexdowad> it's surprisingly hard to find the commit which is the stable release.
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<alexdowad> or maybe I just use edge?
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<alexdowad> ok, I see the problem
<alexdowad> my git update script was only pulling trunk, not all the other branches
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<whitequark> alexdowad: surely there are tags for releases, e.g. v2_1_1: https://github.com/ruby/ruby/tree/v2_1_1
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<whitequark> git fetch --tags
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<alexdowad> OK
<alexdowad> I have a script which updates git repo from remote. It's not pulling those tags. I will try git fetch --tags
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<alexdowad> awesome. thanks for that tip
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<cored> hi
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<cored> how can I know which is the top level domain in an href parsed by nokogiri
<cored> ?
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<apeiros> cored: eh? it's part of the url? (if it's an absolute one, that is, otherwise it's the same as the current page)
<cored> I want to create a site map of all the links and assets of a site but just for the links that are part of the top level domain; something like www.domain.com will return
<cored> hm
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<cored> hm
<apeiros> www.domain.com is not a toplevel domain. .com is
<apeiros> URI#host gets you the domain
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<apeiros> and either String#split or #[] can easily get you the tld
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<cored> apeiros: link.attr(:href).match(/[http|https]/)
<apeiros> oy
<apeiros> /[http|https]/ does not mean what you think it does
<cored> will tell me if that's the same domain, what I saw in the html was like links like /company won't have any other domain in front for the href
<apeiros> /[http|https]/ == /[htps|]/
<cored> oh yes you are right
<cored> :-)
<cored> but what do you think of that approach
<cored> ?
<apeiros> cored: relative urls have the same host as the page you're currently on
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<apeiros> as said, I'd use URI
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<lianj> yea, use uri
<apeiros> extract all hrefs, map them to uris, select all with scheme nil, http or https
<apeiros> map to hostname || current host
<cored> hm
<cored> let me check
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<cored> apeiros: works like a charm
<cored> apeiros: thanks
<cored> now I just need to scrap for the assets for each link
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<headius> yorickpeterse: so far I don't see anything major to improve in jruby relating to the oga bench
<headius> yorickpeterse: I haven't done an allocation profile, though...that often yields some good stuff
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<yorickpeterse> headius: hmm
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<whitequark> apeiros: no, that's a wrong approach
<whitequark> he should've used URI#merge, it uses the algorithm described in RFC
<apeiros> whitequark: hm?
<yorickpeterse> ah yes, URI and RFCs
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<whitequark> apeiros: for turning relative URIs into absolute.
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<apeiros> whitequark: I'm sorry, I'm missing the context. what are you talking about?
<yorickpeterse> >> require 'uri'; URI.parse('http://foo_bar.herp.derp')
<eval-in> yorickpeterse => the scheme http does not accept registry part: foo_bar.herp.derp (or bad hostname?) (URI::InvalidURIError) ... (https://eval.in/145615)
<yorickpeterse> ^ valid URL
<whitequark> apeiros: < apeiros> extract all hrefs, map them to uris, select all with scheme nil, http or https
<apeiros> oh, 2h ago :D
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<whitequark> what you need is to have a base_uri = URI(...) and for every href do base_uri.merge(URI(href))
<apeiros> whitequark: he doesn't need to merge because he doesn't care about the url
<whitequark> hm
<apeiros> whitequark: all he wants is the TLD
<whitequark> ah, right
<apeiros> but otherwise, of course, yes
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<apeiros> though, it might actually be simpler to merge all with the base url
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<apeiros> then he doesn't need to do any of those nil tests
<apeiros> aaahaha, nice error: <file>:<line>:in `core#hash_merge_kwd': wrong argument type String (expected Symbol) (TypeError)
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<whitequark> how'd you get that?
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<apeiros> foo(**{"foo" => 1}) # <-- essentially this, I think
<apeiros> >> def foo(**kwargs); end; foo(**{"foo" => 1})
<eval-in> apeiros => wrong argument type String (expected Symbol) (TypeError) ... (https://eval.in/145617)
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<apeiros> hm, looks like custom yaml types can't use symbols as keys in their maps
* apeiros so disappointed
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<circ-user-kixG9> Hi, people. I'm looking for any relevant ruby 2 books. Most of the books cover ~1.9. Did the ruby 2 brought something groundbreaking that made 1.9 obsolete?
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<arrubin> The Pickaxe book has been updated.
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<arrubin> circ-user-kixG9: This seems to provide some answer to your question: https://speakerdeck.com/geeforr/whats-new-in-ruby-2-dot-0
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<havenwood> circ-user-kixG9: learning the 2.0 and 2.1 differences isn't daunting. think of 1.9.3 as a release candidate for 2.0. :P
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<havenwood> circ-user-kixG9: There is a second edition of the Well-Grounded Rubyist in the works for Ruby 2: http://www.manning.com/black3/
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<dafalcon> i have a question about this code:
<dafalcon> class MyClass; end
<dafalcon> puts Object.const_get('MyClass', false) # works
<dafalcon> puts Kernel.const_get('MyClass', false) # uninitialized constant Kernel::MyClass
<dafalcon> why does the first const_get work, but the 2nd throws
<dafalcon> ?
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<dafalcon> is MyClass being defined in the Object namespace?
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<apeiros> dafalcon: yes. Object is the toplevel namespace. not Kernel.
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<dafalcon> apeiros: thanks!
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<dafalcon> follow on: we have been using Kernel.const_get in rails and it's been working
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<dafalcon> (albeit with inherit set to true)
<dafalcon> any idea why?
<dafalcon> since Kernel is above Object in the hierarchy it seems like that should not have worked
<apeiros> Object includes Kernel
<apeiros> err
<apeiros> wrong way round
<dafalcon> it does, i saw that in the ruby docs
<apeiros> yes, it is
<apeiros> but that's not why you see constants there :)
<dafalcon> yeah i didn't think so
<apeiros> >> Array.const_get(:Array)
<eval-in> apeiros => Array (https://eval.in/145677)
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<dafalcon> ha! neat
<apeiros> I'm atm not quite sure which property it actually is
<apeiros> but you can get every toplevel constant from any class
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<apeiros> I think it's because Class < Object
<apeiros> and Module < Object
<apeiros> you will get a warning from ruby if you try it without const_get
<apeiros> Array::Array
<apeiros> (pry):5: warning: toplevel constant Array referenced by Array::Array
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<apeiros> oddly enough, Kernel::Array fails, while Kernel.const_get(:Array) works… weird
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<apeiros> not sure there. anyway, bottom line is that Object is the toplevel namespace.
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<dafalcon> ahhh i see
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<dafalcon> Kernel < Module < Object
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<dafalcon> well TIL
<dafalcon> thank you sir!
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<apeiros> not correct
<apeiros> Kernel.is_a?(Module)
<apeiros> and Module < Object
<apeiros> but also Module.is_a?(Object)
<apeiros> rubys class system root is a bit circular. the implementers cheated a bit :)
<TTilus> what isn't (in ruby)
<apeiros> circular?
<apeiros> or cheated?
<TTilus> wrt Module.is_a?(Object)
<apeiros> ah
<apeiros> BasicObject stuff
<apeiros> other than that, everything which can receive methods .is_a?(Object) :)
<TTilus> ah, BasicObject, yes
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<TTilus> with 1.8 "everything" still was an object ;)
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<apeiros> TTilus: nope :)
<apeiros> everything which could receive methods, yes
<apeiros> but not everything ;-)
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<TTilus> was there something (that you could bind to a const or var) in 1.8 that wasn't object?
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<TTilus> maybe its just too late and i should be sleeping
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<TTilus> but if i leave now, i know this will still haunt me in the morning :D
<TTilus> (quotes around the "everything" were about just considering things that you can give a name to)
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<apeiros> TTilus: no. everything which could be referenced by a variable (could also receive methods) is an object
<apeiros> and with 1.9, the only thing that changed is s/Object/BasicObject/
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<apeiros> so BasicObject is now at the top of the hierarchy for inheritance. But Object is still at the top for constant lookup.
<apeiros> I have to admit, I dislike BasicObject. Not for its own failures, but because ruby-core omitted to provide external introspection for it.
<whitequark> I don't think BasicObject has a free will to have its own failures
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<apeiros> :)
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<apeiros> you just think so because you can't introspect it to see the scary truth!
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<whitequark> I can, I have gdb
* whitequark grins
<apeiros> bah, cheater
<TvL2386> hi guys, I'm having an ubuntu-12.04 server and installed ruby-2.1 from the brightbox ppa (https://launchpad.net/~brightbox/+archive/ruby-ng). I'm trying to install ffi-1.9.3, but I'm getting the error: that it failed to build gem native extension. extconf.rb failed. Could not create Makefile due to some reason, probably lack of libraries and/or headers. It also says "You have to install development tools first". I have build-essentia
<TvL2386> l installed and ruby2.1-dev
<TvL2386> any clues? I've been searching the internet, but can't really find what I'm missing
<jhass> TvL2386: make a gist of the full output, include logs that the output references, if any
<jhass> but I'd bet on something like a missing libffi-dev
<apeiros> CheatSheet or Cheatsheet?
<jhass> I'm for Cheatsheet
<apeiros> hm, seems to be 2 words in english, so I'd lean for CheatSheet actually
<apeiros> "cheat sheet" -> "cheat_sheet" and "CheatSheet" IMO
<jhass> hm https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cheatsheet#English wiktionary lists it as alias form
<TvL2386> jhass, installing libffi-dev
<apeiros> a "ipad cheat sheet app in under 1h" will be the "blog in 15min" for my webapp framework :)
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<jhass> TvL2386: that should fix it (it failed to find ffi.h)
<whitequark> "in <short interval of time>" considered harmful
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<jhass> apeiros: I guess just go with Spickzettel :P
<apeiros> lol
<apeiros> so we have an other german word implanted, after Blitzkrieg and Kindergarten
<apeiros> subverting *the enemy*. slowly. deadly. muahahaha :)
<jhass> (okay, not really from the german one... but hey!)
<apeiros> i've also seen Gedankenverbrechen
<whitequark> whoa, "Kindergarten" is german
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<whitequark> that totally makes sense in hindsight
<apeiros> whitequark: I had quite a laugh when (somewhen in 1996 I think) I've seen "Kindergarten" as a difficulty level in a game :)
<TvL2386> I updated the gist... It still fails jhass... I confirmed another 12.04 machine has ffi-1.9.3 installed and the package libffi6, libffi-dev.
<whitequark> apeiros: hm, why is that funny?
<apeiros> because it was unexpected to see a german word in an english game
<whitequark> TvL2386: what is in /var/lib/gems/2.1.0/extensions/x86_64-linux/2.1.0/ffi-1.9.3/gem_make.out ?
<jhass> TvL2386: add /var/lib/gems/2.1.0/extensions/x86_64-linux/2.1.0/ffi-1.9.3/gem_make.out
<apeiros> also fun: how neon genesis evangelion uses german words to get a touch of "mystery" (e.g. secret organizations are named using german words: Seele, Nerv, Gehirn)
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<TvL2386> whitequark, jhass same contents as the gist output.... I have a feeling I have a mismatch with ruby2.1 and ruby2.1-dev package... versions don't match on this troublesome host (see gist output)
<whitequark> apeiros: did not expect you to be an NGE fan
<apeiros> I like it, except for its ending.
<whitequark> or anime in general
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<apeiros> there are a couple of good animes
<whitequark> duh!
<apeiros> jin roh (movie) and ghost in the shell (movie and series) are my favorites
<TvL2386> Rurouni Kenshin
<jhass> TvL2386: nah, that's a too minor difference
<apeiros> I'm curious, why did you think I didn't like animes?
<apeiros> TvL2386: ah, kenshin is fun too, only read 4 books, though
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<TvL2386> apeiros, I only watched the entire series + OVA's
<TvL2386> :)
<whitequark> apeiros: I dunno, you just don't sound like someone who would
<jhass> TvL2386: hunt down the mkmf.log
<TvL2386> now watching Hunter x Hunter (2011). The new part is very slow unfortunately
<apeiros> whitequark: fun :)
<TvL2386> ah yeah... got sidetracked jhass... I saw Anime ^^
<jhass> ;P
<TvL2386> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lgmp
<TvL2386> think that's the key :D
<yorickpeterse> ok random question because I'm blowing my brains out over basic C
<TvL2386> jhass, from /var/lib/gems/2.1.0/extensions/x86_64-linux/2.1.0/ffi-1.9.3/mkmf.log: /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lgmp
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: brains?
<yorickpeterse> given I have a fucking `char buffer_whatever[] = ""`, how the hell do I append a const char * to it without blowing up Dennis Richie
<yorickpeterse> basically append one string to another
<jhass> TvL2386: yep, let me guess, ubuntu has a libgmp package
<yorickpeterse> I ended up on fucking Yahoo answers for christ sake
<yorickpeterse> I AM THIS BAD AT C
<|jemc|> lol
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: you allocate a new string that is long enough to contain both of the source ones
<TvL2386> jhass, yeah... it has... and it's installed
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: did you just tell me "Go fucking google it"?
<whitequark> then you strncpy() both of them into the new one
<whitequark> what?
<eam> whitequark: or uh, just use strncat()
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<|jemc|> yorickpeterse: don't google it; yahoo it
<yorickpeterse> strncat makes things go boom
<yorickpeterse> :<
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: malloc(strlen(s1) + strlen(s2) + 1)
<surrounder> wow
<whitequark> eam: of course not
<surrounder> that quote was awesome
<jhass> TvL2386: hm, the linker can't find it though. Maybe try installing pkg-config
<surrounder> yorickpeterse++
<TvL2386> jhass, just not the -dev package
<whitequark> eam: see his code; buffer_whatever contains a literal
<TvL2386> jhass, it's built :)
<jhass> TvL2386: you shouldn't need the -dev one to link against it though
<jhass> hum
<jhass> okay
<jhass> then I take that back
<TvL2386> yeah, that's what I thought
<whitequark> eam: ah, you mean use strncat to copy stuff. yeah, that would work
<eam> yeah
<yorickpeterse> basically I had strncat(buffer, source, 1), but then stuff segfaults
<yorickpeterse> I shouldn't be doing C on a Friday
<yorickpeterse> or ever
<TvL2386> jhass, this other 12.04 machine with the ruby2.1 brightbox package (though 2.1.0 instead of 2.1.1) also didn't have the libgmp-dev package
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<TvL2386> jhass, but it has a working ffi-1.9.3... I don't get it
<TvL2386> jhass, Successfully installed ffi-1.9.3
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: allocate a new buffer. also, the last argument in strncat is the length of the buffer
<eam> yorickpeterse: you're only copying one byte?
<jhass> TvL2386: does it have pkg-config maybe?
<TvL2386> jhass, what do you mean by that? :$
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: derp
<jhass> TvL2386: it's a tool. No idea what the ubuntu package is for that
<yorickpeterse> See, this is why I should not write C: I'll end up creating Heartbleed 2.0
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: you have valgrind, msan, tsan and ubsan to avoid that
<eam> just #include ruby.h and use VALUESs
<TvL2386> jhass, I've got the binary /usr/bin/pkg-config
<yorickpeterse> eam: not webscale
<eam> haha
<jhass> TvL2386: on both machines?
<yorickpeterse> Daniweb...jesus I'm at the bottom of the barrel
<yorickpeterse> Even more tempted to see if I can hook up Rust via FFI to Ruby
<yorickpeterse> then again Ragel can't do Rust :/
<whitequark> it can
<whitequark> there's a fork
<TvL2386> jhass, yes
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<whitequark> but eh, you'll spend just as much time, if not more, battling rust
<whitequark> and then you can't even just install the gem because rustc
<jhass> TvL2386: no idea then. another reason I run arch, no silly -dev packages :P
<eam> jhass: what does arch use instead of -dev packages?
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<TvL2386> jhass, I also have no idea... I've been install ffi without hassle for quite some time now on new machines...
<TvL2386> doesn't arch use pacman for package manager?
<eam> ah, they just roll them into the runtimes ... I wonder how they make that work with multi-arch
<jhass> eam: it just ships that stuff in one package
<eam> maybe arch just doesn't do multi-arch
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<jhass> TvL2386: it does
<eam> that's generally why they're split out
<TvL2386> I've minor experience with arch, been a fan of ubuntu for quite some time
<jhass> eam: they do (and call it it multilib)
<jhass> dev headers don't change for the arch though
<eam> jhass: yeah but, I wonder how they handle headers which vary by arch
<eam> the linker can support multi-arch, but there's no include32/include64, for example
<jhass> I've yet to come across such a situation
<jhass> do you know some software where that's the case?
<TvL2386> jhass, whitequark: thanks for the help!
<eam> been about half a decade since I did much multiarch, but I remember RHEL had maybe 10, 20 or so in base with those types of issues
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<yorickpeterse> Hm perhaps I can just work around the whole copying crap
<eam> fairly easy to find, on a rhel system just diff all the -devel.i386 vs the -devel.x86_64 packages
<eam> thankfully I'm 100% 64bit these days
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<jhass> http://paste.mrzyx.de/p811842ac/ hmm, I guess the gcc-multilib package takes care of these
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<eam> a collection of the corner cases? :)
<eam> interesting approach, probably works pretty well
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<jhass> I didn't look at it but if I had to take a guess, for the stuff in /usr/include it checks for a -32 suffix, for the stuff in /usr/lib32 you have to add the include directory when building against it
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<imperator> hm, felipe losing it on ruby-core
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<yorickpeterse> what for?
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<apeiros> imperator: channel or ML?
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<imperator> apeiros, ML
<imperator> well, redmine to ruby-core: https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/9794
<imperator> someone have an ffi question?
<yorickpeterse> "Rubinious" heh
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<yorickpeterse> hahaha this is great
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<yorickpeterse> fukit video games, not nearly awake enough to mess with C
<drbrain> imperator: LOL
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<apeiros> funaba's behavior seems rude
<apeiros> first not giving a reason, then answering in japanese…
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<drbrain> funaba is highly opinionated
<drbrain> but I would reply in Japanese after "Tadayoshi you are so fucking ridiculous"
<apeiros> unless his japanese contains some sort of "can somebody please translate my response to english", he's being an outright ass
<apeiros> yeah, that wasn't proper either
<drbrain> apeiros: it's described in #7445 as linked
<apeiros> doesn't mean you should step on the same low ground
<drbrain> I don't see a reason to copy-paste when an issue link exists
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<drbrain> … I don't for my duplicate issues
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<apeiros> drbrain: in that case, he could have saved his japanese answer and just restated something like "see 7445"
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<apeiros> but if he had any moral high ground after felipes misbehavior, he lost it by his own action
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<drbrain> in past bug replies, tadf has never really sought a high ground
<drbrain> but 7445 has an extensive (if in Japanese) response
<drbrain> I don't think tadf has sufficient English skill to answer, and I wouldn't bother with the constant insults
<imperator> and this is where you just publish your own gem that overrides core behavior ;)
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<zenspider> rawr
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<apeiros> drbrain: I don't see felipe namecalling in 7445
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<apeiros> and after skimming through 7445, I can understand his frustration
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<drbrain> "That English does not parse." and "I've used Google translate which does a poor job, but you have left me no choice."
<drbrain> sounds like insults to me
<apeiros> "that english doesn't parse" he said (iirc) about the google translation
<apeiros> and if all he gets is japanese…
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<apeiros> and "you left me no choice" - um, not an insult. fact. he didn't respond in english.
<drbrain> "doesn't parse" is at the end of #9, before the japanese
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<apeiros> ok. that's bad. but not necessarily an insult.
<drbrain> sure, being polite is preferred, but, I think, not mandatory
<zenspider> ss this wrt the email that just went out to ruby-talk@ ? wtf?
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<zenspider> from the email: So my question is: who the f*uck is this guy? And why can he just
<zenspider> reject sensible patches like that?
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<drbrain> he's the committer and he can do WTF he wants is the answer
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<zenspider> *nod*
<zenspider> the attitude from felipe is what I'm questioning.
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<TTilus> zenspider: and you aren't the only one http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/414951
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<whitequark> hm
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<zenspider> drbrain: do you understand tadayoshi's argument against? because I don't.
<zenspider> charlie's patch looks fine to me. I think it should be applied for consistency's sake
<drbrain> I don't read enough japanese, but I do know tadf is super opinionated about Date/DateTime
<drbrain> somebody that speaks Japanese needs to figure it out
<zenspider> I think given https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/7445#note-16 -- it's clear that this is a bug that will cause problems. if it has a strptime that references the manpage for the c function, it should act like the c function
<drbrain> there's something about year and time zone not making sense
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<apeiros> if you interpret a plain year as all other values to be the lowest value, then it makes sense
<apeiros> i.e., 2000 --> 2000-01-01T00:00:00.000
<zenspider> strptime and strftime should round-trip in this case. It does everywhere else, and the doco says it should work like everywhere else. I don't think it makes sense for this ONE case to interpret the input differently
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<apeiros> basically there's two ways to interpret a date: a) as a datetime at the beginning of the date (e.g. 2000-01-01 = 2000-01-01T00:00:00.000), b) as an interval (e.g. 2000-01-01 = 2000-01-01T00:00:00.000...2000-01-02T00:00:00.000). In either interpretation, you have datetimes. Now a datetime makes sense to have a timezone. Without a timezone, it usually means "that time in your local timezone"
<zenspider> drbrain: can you come review this?
<zenspider> there's only one way to interpret it when it references a manpage
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<zenspider> drbrain: think it is ok to set the status to feedback (from closed) ?
<drbrain> probably
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<zenspider> well... we'll see how that goes
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<drbrain> hrm, travis-ci is picking REE for 1.8.7
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<drbrain> … I guess that's the only supported 1.8.7 on travis nowadays?