apeiros_ changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 2.1.2; 2.0.0-p481; 1.9.3-p545: http://ruby-lang.org || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com
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<moogumbo> I'm trying to start a coproc from within a Ruby script, but when I do (for example) `coproc ls` it throws the error No such file or directory - coproc (Errno::ENOENT)
<moogumbo> Why is this?
<centrx> moogumbo, What is a coproc?
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<moogumbo> it's a way in bash to spawn a subshell and set up pipes for communicating with it
<centrx> moogumbo, Use Open3 in the Ruby stdlib: http://www.ruby-doc.org/stdlib-2.1.1/libdoc/open3/rdoc/Open3.html
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<centrx> moogumbo, If you really want to try using bash's coproc, you probably need to invoke bash and then run coproc inside bash (it is a bash built-in)
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<moogumbo> centrx: Thanks. Running `bash -c coproc ls` did the trick
<moogumbo> But it looks like Ruby is killing that subshell (and thus the pipes to the coproc) as soon as that set of backticks is done ... any ideas on how to keep it around?
<centrx> Use Open3 :)
<moogumbo> The thing is that I need to be able to run other commands in backticks and have them pass things into those pipes... I don't think Open3 allows that?
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<centrx> why not?
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<moogumbo> Hm. I guess I could use pipeline_w
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<[spoiler]> Morning people
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<stardiviner> What does this Matrix.[](i, j) mean ? I write Matrix.[](1, 2) is wrong SyntaxError: (irb):8: syntax error, unexpected '(', expecting $end. What is the correct way to access Matrix elements?
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<havenwood> stardiviner: it's expecting an Array as an argument: Matrix.[]([1, 2])
<havenwood> stardiviner: but the sugary way to call it is: Matrix.[[1, 2]]
<stardiviner> havenwood: soga, thanks
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<havenwood> oops, i mean: Matrix[[1, 2]]
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<stardiviner> havenwood: still wrong, I created an matrix with "a = Matrix.zero(2, 4) ; p a[[1, 2]]; " get Error: ArgumentError: wrong number of arguments (1 for 2)
<havenwood> stardiviner: oh, sorry i thought you were talking about creating a Matrix with ::[], when it seems you mean returning an element with #[].
<stardiviner> And I use method "Matrix.rows", ruby report error: protected method. weird.
<havenwood> >> a = Matrix.zero(2, 4); a[1, 2]
<eval-in__> havenwood => uninitialized constant Matrix (NameError) ... (https://eval.in/155573)
<havenwood> stardiviner: well, i forgot to require ^ but that'd work
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<stardiviner> havenwood: Oh, it can work now, a[1, 2] is the correct way. Still have a new problem , the method Matrix.rows is protected. How can I use Matrix.rows ?
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<havenwood> >> require 'matrix'; Matrix.rows([[25, 93], [-1, 66]])
<eval-in__> havenwood => Matrix[[25, 93], [-1, 66]] (https://eval.in/155576)
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<havenwood> stardiviner: too late for me, good night!
<stardiviner> havenwood: good night
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<yorickpeterse> morning
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<igalic> What's the difference between foo = ->(*args) { bar('zomg', *args) } , and def foo(*args) bar('zomg', *args) end ?
<igalic> the lambda "feels" more lightweight than the function, but that might be a case of "gentoo just feels faster"
<yorickpeterse> eh.
<yorickpeterse> One is a lambda the other is a method?
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<yorickpeterse> Method calls are also faster, at least in MRI
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<whitequark> are they?
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<whitequark> hm, method caches, yeah
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<whitequark> igalic: but it's irrelevant for any task you may have currently.
<whitequark> making architectural decisions based on guesses is silly
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<igalic> yorickpeterse: I like your github bio.
<yorickpeterse> Either way, a lambda is useful if you have some kind of callback system for example
<igalic> whitequark: not making any architectural decisions. After ~10 years of on-off exposure to ruby, I'm finally learning it, and when I learn things I like to know how they work.
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<igalic> in that sense, it (or, everything, really) is highly relevant to the task I currently have.
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<whitequark> well, then the answer is that lambdas and methods have different semantics
<whitequark> a lambda is an object with a method #call(...)
<whitequark> a method is a part of a class
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<yorickpeterse> I'm writing Python today
<yorickpeterse> oh lawd
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<yorickpeterse> It appears I have tamed the beast that is MRI 2.1.2's GC
<yorickpeterse> that only took...two weeks of tweaking
<DefV> what did you do?
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<eam> yorickpeterse: you'll want "$@" or you'll get interpolation bugs
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<yorickpeterse> Ah yeah, the dreaded Bash problems with spaces
<yorickpeterse> blegh
<yorickpeterse> ta
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<eam> yes, I detest bash
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<eam> it's my goto example of how a language design can make correctness and safety very difficult to achieve
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<gnufied> lol nogori.
<gnufied> nokogiri. it never compiles without bit of push and prod
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<yorickpeterse> gnufied: feels ya pain bra
<darix> gnufied: with intree libxml2/libxslt or system copy
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<gnufied> my project has not yet switched to latest nokogiri that bundles it
<gnufied> or i should say, one my projects
<gnufied> so system libxml2
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<eam> I've been bitten a number of times recently by people putting non-memory related cleanup in their finalizer
<yorickpeterse> wat
<eam> feels like many ruby authors try to hide implementation detail and end up making complex problems
<gnufied> who uses finalizers?
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<yorickpeterse> gnufied: bad people
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<eam> a *lot* of objects that make connections do network cleanup in them
<gnufied> eam: you mean using C api?
<eam> yes
<eam> recently I found Tempfile touches the filesystem in one
<gnufied> ruby > 2.1 has postponed job api for that sort of thing
<eam> the problem is essentially that once any non-memory cleanup behavior is added, process parallism is broken
<eam> can't fork, or my child might run a finalizer
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<gnufied> btw, yorickpeterse if you want pow like thing on Linux. I fixed up invoker to make it work on Linux
<gnufied> currently I have tested only with ubuntu derivates (and no official release it), but it works quite nicely
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<gnufied> s/it/yet/
<yorickpeterse> pow?
<yorickpeterse> Oh right, that 37 signals thing
<gnufied> damn it. heathens
<yorickpeterse> meh, I just use port numbers like a caveman
<gnufied> not clearly my audience.
<whitequark> I use a three-line config in nginx
<gnufied> i used to do as well.
<gnufied> but to each its own though.
<gnufied> whitequark: three-line config along with something like dnsmasq i think you mean?
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<darix> if i read things like "curl get.pow.cx | sh" i could puke
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<gnufied> well, invoker is not like that.
<gnufied> :-)
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<eam> echo '"|/usr/bin/ruby -x"' > ~root/.forward # you guys install what you think I need
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<apeiros> darix: err, duh, "If your install script is sufficiently short, just publish the commands to run in your installation documentation." - just don't pipe it directly into sh/sudo bash?
<apeiros> that url *is* a publication of the commands
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<darix> apeiros: if you have some remarks for it, please talk to tim directly.
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<darix> given how many projects start their install documentation with curl/wget | sh
<darix> we cant post it often enough
<apeiros> darix: not any different than `make install`
<apeiros> you run foreign software
<apeiros> with the same privilege
<eam> apeiros: in a distro packaging system there are a few key differences
<apeiros> if you can put damaging code into that url, you can do that in whatever you download
<eam> the packages are stored and available for audit (detect and recover, if not prevent)
<eam> with a signed package it's impossible to, say, serve up a poisoned script only to 17.0.0.0/8 (apple)
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<darix> apeiros: a) i know it is asking much but i would assume people to verify checksums/sigs for the tarballs. yes you could do the same with the shell scripts... but the commandline they offer for copy paste is not even allowing that.
<apeiros> eam: I didn't argue package managers. I argued "download and run make install or similar yourself"
<eam> it's true there's not a ton of difference in that case
<apeiros> iow, anything else than an established proper distribution system will have exactly the same weaknesses as just doing wget url | sh
<darix> b) many people who are less skilled will assume this is a valid way to do it, skip every verification and such. this means we are training more people to be careless.
<darix> apeiros: see point a
<eam> apeiros: I wouldn't say exactly. At least you're preserving the artifact
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<eam> when it comes to importing OSS unfortunately it's more of an audit trail issue than actually having preventative measures
<apeiros> as said, it's trivial enough to preserve the artifact in case of wget url
<darix> eam: s/OSS/software/
<darix> apeiros: and want to bet on how many people do it?
<apeiros> darix: I'd bet close to zero. just as close to zero will ever inspect what make install will do.
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<eam> darix: sure :)
<apeiros> darix: that doesn't make it a better argument
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<apeiros> curious though - do wget/curl have options/flags to verify a download against a sha1 or other checksum and exit with non-zero on mismatch?
<darix> apeiros: the point is ... we should fight stupid documentation like that.
<darix> apeiros: no
<eam> where would the checksum come from?
<apeiros> darix: I think you completely miss the point by doing that
<darix> apeiros: how so?
<apeiros> darix: because nobody will be any more secure. see "anything but established distro system"
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<apeiros> darix: you're just replacing one non-security with another.
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<darix> apeiros: if your documentation starts with
<apeiros> and if you're at non-security, I prefer the comfortable one.
<darix> download those 2 files and verify that the gpg signature matches
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<darix> you added a great layer of integrity check already
<darix> or even just normal checksums
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<darix> normal checksums wouldnt help much if someone replaced the file on the server (after a hack)
<darix> but well
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<apeiros> if the server is hacked you can put on a wrong checksum too
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<darix> apeiros: that's what i said
<darix> faking the gpg signature should hopefully be harder
<darix> did i mention i would love to have signed gems?
<apeiros> really, half-assed security is not better than what you critisize
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<darix> apeiros: i proposed gpg signature first and only give checksums as fallback
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<apeiros> I'm not convinced gpg signature will make it much less risky.
<darix> i dont think gpg is half-assed
<apeiros> I'd bet that there'd still be enough attack vectors
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<darix> you would need to break gpg in that case
<apeiros> I doubt that :)
<darix> apeiros: and seriously ... you want to argue because we cant make it 100% safe ... it is ok to leave that braindead way as valid?
<eam> thought experiment: how does curl | sh differ from gem install?
<darix> eam: sadly not enough.
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<darix> eam: there are plans for signed gems
<darix> but last time i checked there was still an open question how to establish trust
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<apeiros> darix: I argue that a plain "ugh, this is bad" is pointless. I'd also argue that all but the last point given in the link are security theater and much work for no gain.
<apeiros> the main valid point it has in it is "don't use http, use https"
<darix> *facepalm* I rest my case
<apeiros> darix: the three other "fixes" he gives - somebody who can alter your https wget will almost certainly also be able to alter the reference checksum/gpg signature
<apeiros> so seriously, why bother
<apeiros> (for starters because - how did you get the reference checksum again?)
<darix> apeiros: given the brokenness of the CA system ... breaking https is much easier than breaking gpg
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<apeiros> darix: as said, I don't think you have to break gpg
<darix> apeiros: how do you plan to fake the signature made with my key?
<apeiros> why do you think I'd have to use your key?
<apeiros> I only have to convince the user that whatever signature the package has is proper
<eam> apeiros: it's true, that's a tough problem
<apeiros> I don't need to hijack microsoft.com in order to let people think m¡crosoft.com was proper
<eam> in a distro there's some bootstrapping which is pretty ok, but it's much more difficult for the rubygem or random code on github case
<apeiros> (two different domains)
<darix> apeiros: because normally the documentation mentions "signed by this key" which includes the fingerprint
<apeiros> darix: dude, think. where do I get that docs from again?
<apeiros> as I said, if I can alter https, you're fucked. your first 3 "fixes" will do shit.
<darix> apeiros: let's just agree, i wont write such stupid docs and will let you happily use stupid ways.
<apeiros> the only thing which helps you is a pre-established distro system. as eam mentioned at the beginning.
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<apeiros> but that too isn't without holes.
<apeiros> but at least it's not just the same step you have to take as it'd be fore wget https.
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<whitequark> gnufied: funny thing, dnsmasq is the easiest part
<whitequark> $ cat /etc/dnsmasq.d/devzone.conf
<whitequark> address=/dev/127.0.0.1
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<whitequark> literally one line
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<gnufied> i never claimed hard. but when you said, it is 3 lines in nginx, you forgot to mention dnsmasq change.
<gnufied> :-)
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<whitequark> oh yeah, you never did. but I thought it would be the case for quite some time
<whitequark> and was delighted to learn it's not
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<gnufied> yep, it is quite simple, agreed.
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<joevandyk> is there a better way to do this? a=[]; 3.times { {some: 'hash', is: 'here' }; a
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<joevandyk> err, minus the typo
<centrx> Are those really the same value for each element?
<centrx> An array of three identical hashes?
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<apeiros> joevandyk: um, after that, a is still an empty array?
<apeiros> joevandyk: I guess you want Array.new(3) { {some: 'hash', is: 'here'} }
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<joevandyk> i can't type today
<joevandyk> a = []; 3. times { a << [{same: 'hash'}] }; a
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<joevandyk> still can't type
<joevandyk> here we are, actually tested: a = []; 3. times { a << {same: 'hash'} }; a
<centrx> What are you really trying to do. Do you have a real example?
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<joevandyk> Array.new(3) { {a: 'hash'}} is what i was looking for, thanks@!
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