apeiros changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 2.0.0-p247: http://ruby-lang.org (Ruby 1.9.3-p448) || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com
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<rob_> hi, can anyone tell me how to convert this byte stream (from Base64.decode64()) to ascii values, and whether it could be a bad idea to do it? \x84\t\x83
<rob_> can i just 'unpack' it?
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<apeiros> not sure what you want. you have "\x84", and now you want what?
<apeiros> note that \x84 is NOT ascii
<apeiros> (ascii is 0x00-0x7f)
<rob_> ok i think this is where im confusing myself
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<apeiros> good, I guess then get yourself in the clear what you want first :-p
<rob_> apeiros: i want to work with raw bytes in ruby and im not really sure how to go about doing that - before i assumed i could just convert stuff to ascii with unpack
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<apeiros> "\x84" IS raw bytes.
<apeiros> how much rawer do you want it?
<rob_> how do i iterate over a string of raw bytes?
<apeiros> i.e., "\x84" is a single byte. "\x84\t\x83" is 3 bytes.
<apeiros> String#each_byte
<rob_> ahhhhh!
<rob_> bingo, thanks!
<apeiros> also if your strings encoding is properly set to 'binary', all string operations are on a byte level.
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* rob_ goes to re-write a load of stuff
<apeiros> i.e., str[15,10] will return the bytes 16-25
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<rshetty> Hall pass for code school courses http://go.codeschool.com/ItbJRQ
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<yorickpeterse> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/golang-nuts/_IAni7wPc_o well, seems I have a reason to learn Go
<yorickpeterse> hmpf, last commit 3 years ago
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: lol @ "you don't get all Go power"
<whitequark> clearly has no clue why ragel exists
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<yorickpeterse> still want to mess around with a decent compiled language that isn't C but meh, I'm bikeshedding too much about Go's PascalCase for methods
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<yorickpeterse> Haskell makes my eyes burn, Erlang is not suitable for my needs, D isn't used and Go is something I bikeshed too much about
<yorickpeterse> though I reckon I should just try it out and shut up
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<whitequark> yes
<spike|spiegel> umm is Erlang a 'compiled language'?:)
<apeiros> btw., how goes foundation, whitequark?
<whitequark> apeiros: foundry?
<apeiros> arrr, yes, sorry
<whitequark> I'm finishing the first alpha release of 'production' compiler
<whitequark> got the prototype working, but it needed some refactoring.
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<yorickpeterse> spike|spiegel: yes, but it's geared towards networking and such
<matti> Hm.
<yorickpeterse> not towards what I want: compilers and that jazz
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: it's not
<whitequark> not compiled.
<yorickpeterse> oh?
<apeiros> whitequark: nice. that's quick progress.
<yorickpeterse> I thought it was
<whitequark> it's a typical VM-based language, with rudimentary JIT/AOT
<yorickpeterse> right
<whitequark> (it's technically JIT but it works more like AOT and is not very useful afaik)
<yorickpeterse> my main problem with Go is that it's not OO, which again is bikeshedding
<spike|spiegel> :) was supposed to be a snarky smile. failed.
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: i think it has a "limited form" of OO
<whitequark> something about functions with structs as the first argument
<yorickpeterse> uugghh
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<spike|spiegel> OO is just baloney
<apeiros> does Go have namespacing of some kind?
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<whitequark> apeiros: yeah, sure
<whitequark> proper module system, even
<apeiros> nice
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<apeiros> would you recommend learning Go over C?
<yorickpeterse> Rust still looks super weird syntax wise
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<yorickpeterse> apeiros: ask yourself this question:
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<yorickpeterse> Do you like getting shit done or do you prefer to reinvent every possible wheel every time?
<whitequark> apeiros: absolutely
<apeiros> yorickpeterse: that's the horrible dilemma I live in: both :(
<yorickpeterse> C is fucking terrible, the only reason I learned it is because of Ruby C extensions and because it's *everywhere*
<whitequark> apeiros: go has about zero ways to screw yourself over
<whitequark> i guess rob pike learned his lesson :D
<apeiros> whitequark: if you wanted to screw yourself over, could you drop "down" to C in Go? (similar to objC/C++ can be combined with C)
<whitequark> apeiros: I think you can link go stuff with c libs
<whitequark> pretty sure
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<yorickpeterse> bah, no LLVM bindings for go that are recent
<yorickpeterse> hmpf
<spike|spiegel> C will stay practical for forseeable future... Go.. I can't say :)
<whitequark> it's not an straightforward extension of C like objC, though
<whitequark> spike|spiegel: everything ever written stays for foreseeable future
<whitequark> COBOL
<apeiros> ok
<whitequark> http://netcobol.com
<whitequark> oh you said practical
<whitequark> then that's simply false but I'm not having this argument *again*
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<whitequark> goddamnit
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<spike|spiegel> Go will not kill C if that's what the implication is.. Go is eating at ruby/python world .. not so much as traditional compiled world
<yorickpeterse> Go at this point is very much a hype
<whitequark> spike|spiegel: no, C isn't exactly practical today
<whitequark> unless you're dealing with legacy code
<yorickpeterse> similar to Node was up until recently
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<whitequark> (which *is* a huge chunk, maybe majority of work in some areas)
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<spike|spiegel> whitequark: no quite sure how it's not practical .. C is everywhere and sometimes the only viable option. even in new projects.
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: you have an interesting metric
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: eh?
<whitequark> "hype"
<yorickpeterse> oh
<yorickpeterse> But it is
<whitequark> that's a bare statement :)
<yorickpeterse> People see something cool, they drink the koolaid and then try to use it for *everything*
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<spike|spiegel> ruby world lived/lives on hype ^_^ never forget that
<yorickpeterse> I was about to say it affects every language
<whitequark> yeah, it's a well-known phenomenon
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<whitequark> "hype curve"
<yorickpeterse> When people start hating on a language on a wide scale I'd say it's no longer a hype
<whitequark> lol
<whitequark> that actually makes some weird sense
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<spike|spiegel> lua for example never had that hype ..and is slowing penetrating areas other than game scriptin
<yorickpeterse> Hm, Go's inverted param/type order is weird
<yorickpeterse> it's name -> type instead of type -> name
<whitequark> it's supposed to fix C's order
<whitequark> in fact I'd be hard pressed to recall a non-C language with type -> name
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<yorickpeterse> spike|spiegel: Lua probably will have that hype in the next 5 years as its user base continues to grow
<whitequark> (and non-C-derived)
<yorickpeterse> and jesus christ LuaJIT is pretty awesome
<yorickpeterse> "VROOM VROOM LUA BITCHES" - LuaJIT
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<yorickpeterse> I just wish it wasn't a prototype based language :<
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<spike|spiegel> huh? what's a prototype baseed language?
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<yorickpeterse> I also don't like how it's effectively closed source
<yorickpeterse> spike|spiegel: e.g. Javascript
<yorickpeterse> short and somewhat broken description is "OO without classes"
<spike|spiegel> it's just developed at a university
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: wat? closed source?
<yorickpeterse> Last time I checked there's no public Lua repository of the source code
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<spike|spiegel> they do accept patches. just that version control if there is one.. isn't public
<yorickpeterse> exactly
<yorickpeterse> which for me means it's "more or less closed source"
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<spike|spiegel> what if they don't have version control at all?
<whitequark> it's cathedral development model, which is eh... not closed source
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<yorickpeterse> I'd like to know what the hell people do with the language(s) I'd use, which makes Lua less attractive for me
<yorickpeterse> other than that it's a great language
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: they say they provide snapshots upon request
<whitequark> etc etc. read the letter.
<whitequark> though, the decision is still weird.
<yorickpeterse> I know that
<whitequark> academia.
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<yorickpeterse> Hm, lets see what other languages there are that are actually used
<yorickpeterse> (excluding the JVM family)
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<spike|spiegel> PHP!
<whitequark> lol yes
<whitequark> also javascript
<yorickpeterse> I'd rather eat my shoes
<yorickpeterse> bah, this would be so much easier if I wasn't super pedantic
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<yorickpeterse> whitequark: so yeah, tl;dr hurry up with Foundry damn it
<whitequark> hah. I do.
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<whitequark> it's not easy you know
<yorickpeterse> I never said/assumed it was
<yorickpeterse> Ok different story: hit me with some dumb Ruby features that are worth throwing warnings for
<yorickpeterse> I already have BEGIN/END and overriding methods with local variables
<yorickpeterse> of course I can't think of anything else :?
<yorickpeterse> * :/
<whitequark> I think both of those are handled by rubocop
<yorickpeterse> Could be, but they serve as a simple example on how to write analysis in ruby-lint
<whitequark> eh
<whitequark> dunno.
<spike|spiegel> ruby world comes up with the silliest of names for libraries... rubocop really?
<yorickpeterse> and rubocop doesn't do the former
<yorickpeterse> it does seem to have unused vars warnings, I wonder how accurate it is
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: 100% accurate?
<whitequark> that only requires syntactical analysis
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<whitequark> in fact
<whitequark> lemme throw you a different idea
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<yorickpeterse> Hm, I recall reading something about it being done using regexes
<whitequark> different from ruby-lint though, but hopefully new to the ruby world and interesting
<whitequark> (regexes) that was fixed
<whitequark> so
<yorickpeterse> ah
<whitequark> perform instrumentation of the code with rewriting
<yorickpeterse> hm
<whitequark> for example how can you check for unused methods? instrument each method in the codebase with a flag, then run the testsuite
<whitequark> also you can do more precise coverage than any existing tools do
<whitequark> they do line coverage, you can provide SC/CC
<whitequark> statement/condition coverage.
<yorickpeterse> meh, my next project would probably be a compiler or interpreted language
<whitequark> eg for 'a && b && foo' you would need three testcases, not one
<yorickpeterse> In particular a language that would be suitable for absolute beginners, which is pretty hard to nail
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<whitequark> shoes ?
<whitequark> scheme ? :D
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<yorickpeterse> hahaha shoes
<yorickpeterse> Shoes is not a programming language
<yorickpeterse> nor is it easy to understand for somebody who's new to brogramming
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<yorickpeterse> (I'm talking about people who've never coded before)
<whitequark> well, it depends on their background them
<spike|spiegel> brogramming, way to go
<yorickpeterse> fuckit, I'm releasing ruby-lint
<yorickpeterse> I need people to use it
<yorickpeterse> ugh, now to write a changelog
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: btw, a compiled language with OOP?
<whitequark> ocaml
<yorickpeterse> hm
<yorickpeterse> is it webscale?
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<whitequark> it's good
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<yorickpeterse> hmm
<yorickpeterse> I'll take a look at this, ta
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<spike|spiegel> ocaml the saner haskell :)
<whitequark> well, it's ML family after all
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<yorickpeterse> so while eating pasta I thought about writing "brolang"
<yorickpeterse> I wonder what was in that pasta
<Nilium> While having my morning coffee I thought it's probably not a good idea to pick up scared cats bare-handed
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<spike|spiegel> here's some cats http://i.imgur.com/0Pa4tD7.jpg
<yorickpeterse> that reminds me, I haven't updated my catom feed in a while
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<yorickpeterse> pushing gem, brace for imminent release failure
<yorickpeterse> now to spam ruby-core to get people to test it
<yorickpeterse> nooooooo, I failed to fix the release date
<yorickpeterse> damn it
<yorickpeterse> (in the Gemspec)
<yorickpeterse> I'm so bad at this :<
<yorickpeterse> fuckit, not going to repush for that
<Nilium> The fun thing is when I push something then forgot to update the version constant but do update the gem version.
<Nilium> s/then/but/
<Nilium> I'm amazingly bad at these things.
<yorickpeterse> I can't read that sentence
<Nilium> Gemspec version updated, lib version constant not.
<Nilium> I'm unfortunately still slightly off-kilter due to seeing my own blood.
<yorickpeterse> ah
<spike|spiegel> Nilium: reason why you generate gemspec version dynamically from lib version :P
<Nilium> That requires effort.
<yorickpeterse> FUCK
<yorickpeterse> GENERATING
<yorickpeterse> GEMSPECS
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<yorickpeterse> unless you mean `gemspec.version = Gem::VERSION`
<yorickpeterse> that's ok
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<apeiros_> I love things like spec.files = `some tool surely everybody has`
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<Nilium> I do that for one of my extconfs, but only because I figure if you don't have pkg-config, you can die in a fire.
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<yorickpeterse> Reddit spam: check
<apeiros_> Nilium: I hope you document that dependency, though
<Nilium> I believe it's mentioned somewhere in the readme.
<yorickpeterse> apeiros_: git ls-files, etc
<Nilium> Yep, in the readme.
<yorickpeterse> though git ls-files is the only one I can somewhat live with
<apeiros_> yorickpeterse: f.ex., yes.
<apeiros_> while I have git, I still find it a bad practice.
<apeiros_> also, slippery slope.
<yorickpeterse> I'm currently using MANIFEST files but those are starting to piss me off
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<yorickpeterse> if Dir.glob() could read .gitignore that would solve my problem
<yorickpeterse> (as in, ignore what it specifies)
<apeiros_> Array#-
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<yorickpeterse> That requires me to still deal with potential pattern matching in .gitignore
<darix> yorickpeterse: git ls-files ?
<yorickpeterse> e.g. "foo/*"
<yorickpeterse> unless you also pass that to Dir.glob
<apeiros_> yorickpeterse: those are globs too, no?
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<yorickpeterse> darix: gem.files = `git ls-files`.split("\n")
<yorickpeterse> common pattern in Gemspecs
<yorickpeterse> apeiros_: Hm
<apeiros_> so File.read('.gitignore').split("\n").flat_map { |pattern| Dir.glob(pattern)
<apeiros_> and somehow drop comments and empty lines :)
<apeiros_> reject/grep
<yorickpeterse> hmm
<apeiros_> one of these will do
<yorickpeterse> that would be an option
<darix> yorickpeterse: that's why i am wondering why you are not using it.
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<yorickpeterse> darix: I don't want my Gemspec to depend on external tools. It also makes it impossible to build the Gemspec without cloning the repo
<yorickpeterse> e.g. a tarball wouldn't be possible
<yorickpeterse> It falls in the same category as those Gemspecs that unshift $LOAD_PATH and require your entire lib
<darix> generate manifest file with git ls-files and have that in the tarball. hell you could even version it
<yorickpeterse> It doesn't hurt the end Gem but it sure as hell is stupid
<yorickpeterse> darix: ...that's what I'm already doing
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<darix> ok
<darix> later food time
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<yorickpeterse> ruby-core spam: check
<yorickpeterse> oh shit, almost forgot Twitter
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<yorickpeterse> "Very complex code in RubyLint::VirtualMachine definition outside of methods" lol fuckoff Codeclimate
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<hagabaka> yorickpeterse: is that something RubyLint checks?
<yorickpeterse> No, that's from codeclimate
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<erikh> herp
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<imperator> derp
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<andrewvos> Heh this "graf" tool is pretty cool but I just popped open the code real quick https://github.com/abhshkdz/graf/blob/master/lib/graf/source.rb
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<abstr4ct> trying to escape and pass the "
<abstr4ct> i though tripling it would work, but no go
<abstr4ct> any idea
<abstr4ct> nm got it
<abstr4ct> \ did it
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