00:00
<
Aloysius1 >
Well, that's what I'm dealing with. Might be worth it.
00:00
<
rickhull >
and the worker thread just blocks until it gets a full line
00:00
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00:00
<
rickhull >
if you use the Queue class from stdlib's Thread, then you probably won't need any explicit synch/mutex
00:01
<
rickhull >
main thread blocks on empty queue
00:01
<
rickhull >
have to handle user input, probably have a thread blocking on $stdin.gets
00:02
<
rickhull >
and i'd shove it in the same queue, maybe with a special tag
00:02
<
rickhull >
because with 2 queues, the main thread blocking semantics get tricky
00:03
<
Aloysius1 >
Something to play with for tomorrow.
00:06
<
rickhull >
also, heads up, 99% of my experience with this stuff has been with TCPSocket
00:07
<
rickhull >
files and $stdin behave differently in some nontrivial ways
00:07
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00:07
<
Aloysius1 >
Sure. I will make many grievous misassumptions, I have no doubt.
00:08
<
Aloysius1 >
But, as I said, this is just a window dressing thing. So pain is part of the point.
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<
Aloysius1 >
Thanks for all the feedback and help today, guys. Much appreciated.
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<
rickhull >
one thing i'm hitting with my toy select example. open an empty file for reading, pass it to select. select always returns it in the ready to read array
00:13
<
rickhull >
which i'm sure is "correct", i just expected it to not be returned since there is nothing to read
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<
drbrain >
rickhull: use IO.pipe
00:15
<
drbrain >
then you can feed in bytes to see what select does
00:15
<
rickhull >
yeah, that's what the rdoc example shows :)
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<
rickhull >
just a question of file semantics i guess
00:16
<
rickhull >
makes me question if "everything is an IO" or "everything is a file" (Plan 9) is really a viable abstraction
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<
erikh >
rickhull: around?
01:20
<
erikh >
i'll send you a text
01:20
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01:20
<
rickhull >
around :)
01:21
<
erikh >
beeeeeeeeeer
01:21
<
erikh >
I also sent you a text which says that too
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01:46
<
rickhull >
where to pardner?
01:47
<
rickhull >
got a buddy from work interested. mission is fine, but if you want to come towards downtown or japan town, even better
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<
seydar >
do people generally employ alternatives to rvm, or is rvm still the big dog on the block?
02:45
<
xuser >
rbenv I think
02:46
<
mistym >
seydar: rbenv and chruby are both nice, depending on your needs
02:46
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02:48
<
seydar >
ah, chruby. forgot about that one
02:49
<
seydar >
dammit, i kinda wish i had used that instead of rvm
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06:48
<
zzak >
its easy to switch
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07:24
<
manveru >
just use .ruby-version and you can use either...
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07:43
<
yorickpeterse >
morning
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07:52
<
yorickpeterse >
I'm actually going back to rvm
07:53
<
yorickpeterse >
at least on my server
07:53
<
yorickpeterse >
not sure if I'll do it locally as well, but I probably will
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07:58
<
judofyr >
yorickpeterse: why? chruby and ruby-install FOR LIFE!
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08:00
<
yorickpeterse >
because I cbf managing ruby installations myself, and getting chruby-exec to work with Monit was nothing but a nightmare
08:00
<
yorickpeterse >
and there also isn't a Debian package which means I have to install/update it myself
08:00
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08:00
<
yorickpeterse >
tl;dr: too much effort
08:01
<
yorickpeterse >
for something I ultimately don't give a fuck about (whether or not it hijacks `cd`)
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08:02
<
yorickpeterse >
plus ruby-build's definition system is retarded too
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08:05
<
judofyr >
use ruby-install and install into /usr/local?
08:07
<
yorickpeterse >
... that's exactly the problem.
08:08
<
yorickpeterse >
compare this: `rvm install 1.9.3` to this: `ruby-build 1.9.3-platestwhatever /opt/ruby/1.9.3-platestwhatever`
08:08
<
yorickpeterse >
also, you don't install that shit in to /usr/local
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08:08
<
yorickpeterse >
since /usr/local is more meant for applications
08:09
<
yorickpeterse >
which I believe rvm also does wrong in that regard, but at least I don't have to know about it
08:09
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08:09
<
judofyr >
yorickpeterse: I don't really see the big difference between those two, but then, I've never had problems with chruby either (and plenty with RVM)
08:09
<
judofyr >
not ruby-build
08:10
<
yorickpeterse >
Oh, I misread that as ruby-build
08:10
<
yorickpeterse >
thing is, I'm lazy
08:10
<
yorickpeterse >
But the biggest problem was getting chruby-exec to play nice since it (at least used to) spawn a subshell
08:10
<
yorickpeterse >
which wouldn't get killed for some reason if the parent process (the one monit looks at) gets killed
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08:11
<
yorickpeterse >
not to mention that because chruby primarily uses bash functions (opposed to executableS) you
*have* to start some kind of login shell
08:11
<
yorickpeterse >
so you'll end up with something like this:
08:11
<
judofyr >
how is this different from RVM?
08:12
<
yorickpeterse >
sudo -H -u your-user bash -c -l "source /whatever/path/to/chruby.sh && chruby-exec 1.9.3 -- ruby yourstuff.rb"
08:12
<
yorickpeterse >
there are ways to get it to work nicer but again this requires manual work
08:13
<
yorickpeterse >
You can install chruby globally as well (e.g. put the sources in /etc/bash.bashrc) but that still doesn't solve the subshell problem
08:13
<
yorickpeterse >
Not sure if RVM will have the same issue in that regard, haven't hooked it up to monit yet
08:13
<
judofyr >
yorickpeterse: you can just use `chruby` there, no need to use chruby-exec. the point of chruby-exec is to avoid sourcing
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08:14
<
judofyr >
source chruby.sh && chruby 1.9.3 && ruby myapp.rb
08:14
<
yorickpeterse >
judofyr: that is assuming you actually want a login shell
08:15
<
yorickpeterse >
if chruby would be better at dealing with the sourcing (e.g. look for it in a default location) that would already make it more suitable
08:15
<
yorickpeterse >
(do note I happily use chruby locally)
08:15
<
yorickpeterse >
since I there don't need to run anything as daemons and what not
08:16
<
judofyr >
yorickpeterse: huh? sourcing chruby doesn't require a "login shell" :S
08:16
<
judofyr >
I just don't see how RVM makes of this any simpler
08:17
<
yorickpeterse >
it implies that that takes care of the sourcing
08:17
<
yorickpeterse >
I preferrably would not spawn a login shell if possible, but this means that at a low level that's already impossible
08:17
<
postmodern >
yorickpeterse, chruby-exec assumes you have configured chruby for your $SHELL
08:17
<
judofyr >
yorickpeterse: then don't use chruby-exec. use "source … && chruby"
08:17
<
yorickpeterse >
Preferrably what I'd do is this:
08:17
<
postmodern >
yorickpeterse, why do you not want to spawn a login shell?
08:18
<
yorickpeterse >
/usr/bin/chruby-whatever 1.9.3 -- myshit.rb # this would take care of sourcing for me
08:18
<
yorickpeterse >
postmodern: because it's not needed
08:18
<
yorickpeterse >
why do I need to start a bash login shell only to start some Ruby process?
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08:18
<
postmodern >
yorickpeterse, i thought about trying to source chruby.sh in chruby-exec
08:18
<
yorickpeterse >
this is very pedantic but I'm just not a fan of it
08:18
<
postmodern >
yorickpeterse, except the user could have installed chruby
_anywhere_
08:19
<
postmodern >
yorickpeterse, so it's better to just rely on the shell's configuration
08:19
<
yorickpeterse >
I went as far as writing a `ruby-exec` which did that for me but then I bumped into the sub process nonsense
08:19
<
postmodern >
if nonsense works, than it's not nonsense :P
08:19
<
yorickpeterse >
that's the thing, it doesn't
08:20
<
postmodern >
yorickpeterse, how so?
08:20
<
judofyr >
yorickpeterse: what sub process nonsense? I've had no issues with "source chruby.sh && chruby 1.9.3 && ruby run.rb"
08:20
<
yorickpeterse >
I'm not sure what's causing it but for some reason killing the parent (whatever spawned chruby) would not kill whatever Ruby stuff it would run
08:20
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08:20
<
yorickpeterse >
Let me clarify:
08:20
<
postmodern >
yorickpeterse, sounds like something else is causing the shell to die
08:21
<
judofyr >
yorickpeterse: you can also use "exec" and there is no sub process
08:21
<
yorickpeterse >
I run a Campfire <-> IRC bridge (called camper_van) which is in Ruby. I put it on a leash using Monit because once in a while it goes rampant and sucks up all resources [...]
08:22
<
yorickpeterse >
When I tried out chruby using Monit the latter would kill the parent process (chruby-exec) but would ultimately fail to kill camper_van (even though it traps the right stuff)
08:22
<
yorickpeterse >
same happened with some custom Ruby stuff
08:22
<
yorickpeterse >
I just gave up after trying to make it work for 2 hours
08:22
<
postmodern >
yorickpeterse, can you repro this without monit?
08:22
<
yorickpeterse >
Yes
08:22
<
postmodern >
yorickpeterse, submit repro as an issue
08:23
<
yorickpeterse >
let me see if I can still repro it locally
08:23
<
yorickpeterse >
I can't rule out just having done something stupid either
08:23
<
postmodern >
i have plans to rewrite chruby-exec as a function, so it just uses the chruby already loaded into the shell
08:23
<
postmodern >
this would cause people to explicitly choose the shell
08:23
<
postmodern >
bash -c "chruby-exec ..."
08:24
<
postmodern >
also would prevent people from trying to run chruby-exec under dash (default shell for ubuntu cron)
08:24
<
judofyr >
postmodern: I don't quite see the usage of chruby-exec as a function. why not just use `chruby` then?
08:25
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08:25
<
postmodern >
judofyr, the idea of chruby-exec is it wont change the current shells env
08:25
<
postmodern >
judofyr, spawn sub-shell, switch rubies, exec command to replace sub-shell
08:25
<
judofyr >
postmodern: ( chruby ; … )
08:25
<
postmodern >
judofyr, right pretty much that
08:25
<
postmodern >
judofyr, i actually wondered about just telling users to write that
08:26
<
judofyr >
postmodern: I felt it was "obvious", but I'm not sure how well people know unix/bash/shells
08:26
<
postmodern >
judofyr, or in the case of cron, bash -c "chruby ...; script.rb ..."
08:26
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08:29
<
yorickpeterse >
k, got a repro but I'm not sure if I'm just being stupid
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08:29
<
postmodern >
yorickpeterse, submit it and we'll sort it out later
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08:31
<
yorickpeterse >
if I can fix that without writing an entire book full of Bash I'd happily use Chruby on my server
08:34
<
postmodern >
yorickpeterse, i have the sneaking suspicion, that this has something to do with bash
08:36
<
yorickpeterse >
well, in the end it does spawn 3 processes
08:36
<
yorickpeterse >
sudo -> chruby-exec (bash) -> ruby stuff
08:36
<
yorickpeterse >
so it's not surprising the signals are lost somewhere
08:37
<
yorickpeterse >
not sure if sudo would be the problem here, don't exactly need it for monit anyway
08:38
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08:38
<
yorickpeterse >
nope, not sudo
08:38
<
yorickpeterse >
If I kill the chruby process nothing happens
08:39
<
postmodern >
yorickpeterse, i wonder if I have to explicitly trap those signals and kill the child process
08:40
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08:40
<
yorickpeterse >
Looking at chruby-exec I'm also unsure about starting the shell as interactive, though I understand why it's done
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08:49
<
yorickpeterse >
postmodern: should I make an issue about this?
08:49
<
yorickpeterse >
well as in, a GH issue since I'm already doing the former :)
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08:50
<
postmodern >
yorickpeterse, sure, i assumed that killing the chruby-exec process would kill the sub-process
08:50
<
postmodern >
yorickpeterse, which is why i left the process there, instead of execing over it
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08:55
<
lolmaus >
I've got a fairly large block of code with an `if foo` appended to the last `end`.
https://gist.github.com/lolmaus/5780439 I'm worried that this if clause is difficult to notice when reading the code. But moving the if clause to the beginning will create another level of nesting, which will make code more complicated. Is there a recommended way to put the if clause to the beginning without
08:55
<
lolmaus >
creating extra indentation and extra `end`?
08:55
<
yorickpeterse >
done
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08:58
<
lolmaus >
Which style is better?
08:59
<
yorickpeterse >
lolmaus: you can just put a `return unless sass_code` at the very top
08:59
<
yorickpeterse >
that saves you one indentation level
08:59
<
yorickpeterse >
also, the latter is more readable
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08:59
<
lolmaus >
yorickpeterse, exactly what i wanted, thank you!
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<
pellis >
I'm interesting to know what are the options for background processing out of plain queues such as kafka, beanstalk, kestrel, rabbitmq - and not really resque/sidekick/delayed_job
11:32
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11:32
<
pellis >
in those cases - do you build your own background workers and daemonize them each time and again?
11:33
<
pellis >
s/interesting/interested
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11:47
<
judofyr >
pellis: dunno, I just use Sidekiq
11:47
<
pellis >
how many messages/sec can you process?
11:48
<
judofyr >
I don't have that many messages :)
11:49
<
pellis >
let's say you want to push a mobile message to millions of users in under 5 minutes
11:49
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12:07
<
cored >
judofyr: haha
12:07
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12:07
<
cored >
judofyr: javazone video, very cool
12:09
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12:12
<
judofyr >
cored: ikr
12:13
<
judofyr >
i know right
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12:20
<
yorickpeterse >
judofyr: oh man this is so bad
12:20
<
judofyr >
yorickpeterse: bad? it's one of the better one.
12:21
<
yorickpeterse >
bad as in so bad it's good
12:21
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12:21
<
yorickpeterse >
and yeah, that one was good too
12:21
<
judofyr >
they have some videos that are just bad
12:22
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<
cored >
that just killed me
12:27
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<
cored >
I'm trying to find out the song at the end of the trailer
12:47
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12:47
<
cored >
do any of you know the name of it?
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12:55
<
judofyr >
tried Shazam?
12:56
<
tbuehlmann >
The Turtles - Happy Together
12:56
<
judofyr >
oh, what trailer did you mean?
12:56
<
tbuehlmann >
you freshmen :p
12:57
<
judofyr >
tbuehlmann: I thought he was talking about jz13.java.no
12:57
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12:57
<
judofyr >
tbuehlmann: I know Happy Together :P
12:58
<
tbuehlmann >
you are promoted to an academic then :p
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12:59
<
cored >
tbuehlmann: thanks
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13:09
<
injekt >
pellis: millions in under 5 minutes means you need some big hardware
13:09
<
pellis >
injekt, I'm doing this on 2 EC2-large machines
13:09
<
injekt >
pellis: I clear around 75k workers in 6 minutes on fairly minimal hardware with sidekiq
13:09
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13:10
<
injekt >
they're hitting the db, though, so there's some overhead
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13:11
<
pellis >
75k workers ? or jobs?
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13:14
<
yorickpeterse >
I once looked at a makefile
13:14
<
yorickpeterse >
it had 63 tasks for cleaning up the repo
13:14
<
yorickpeterse >
this is why I hate autoconf/m4/all that crap
13:15
<
whitequark >
I thought that was because of a 600k configure script
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13:16
<
yorickpeterse >
that too
13:16
<
yorickpeterse >
Also, I never got why Make doesn't have something like `rake -T`
13:16
<
yorickpeterse >
Instead I have to use some awk script from SO to get a list of tasks
13:16
<
yorickpeterse >
and said script isn't exactly short either
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13:19
<
whitequark >
yorickpeterse: um, that basically extracts all lines by regex /^\w+:/
13:19
<
yorickpeterse >
yes, but it's not something I can remember
13:20
<
yorickpeterse >
"Oh Bob, if you want to see the Make targets just run <insert script written by a Unix wizard here>"
13:20
<
yorickpeterse >
opposed to "Oh Bob, if you want to see the Make targets just run `make -T`"
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13:55
<
injekt >
pellis jobs
13:55
<
pellis >
injekt, so that's 200msg/sec
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14:18
<
andrewvos >
Hey has anyone seen `bundle install` being
*really* slow on Debian, or anywhere really?
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<
injekt >
andrewvos: everywhere?
14:26
<
andrewvos >
injekt: Can you make it faster plz
14:26
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<
injekt >
andrewvos: what does your gemfile look like?
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14:28
<
DefV_ >
mine is slow too, but my Gemfile alone 70 gems
14:28
<
andrewvos >
injekt: It is big
14:29
<
andrewvos >
cat Gemfile |grep 'gem ' |wc -l #=> 101
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<
darix >
andrewvos: and Gemfile.lock?
14:39
<
darix >
andrewvos: btw grep -c 'gem '
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<
andrewvos >
darix: What about it?
14:46
<
darix >
andrewvos: you can count just with grep
14:47
<
andrewvos >
darix: Oh yeah, i mean what about my Gemfile.lock do you want to know?
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14:47
<
darix >
andrewvos: how many gems you have in the expanded list
14:47
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14:47
<
andrewvos >
Don't know how to count. There's 684 lines in lock
14:48
<
andrewvos >
Sorry I can't share it, I'm not sure if there's any sensitive information in there
14:52
<
yorickpeterse >
it involves beer, helicopters and improvised kanban boards made out of duct tape
14:52
<
apeiros >
yorickpeterse: what? no cat? :)
14:52
<
dominikh >
I see zero work getting done :P
14:52
<
yorickpeterse >
dominikh: it's Friday, what did you expect?
14:52
<
yorickpeterse >
apeiros: sadly no office cat :<
14:53
<
yorickpeterse >
can't wait for the actual office to be done
14:53
<
yorickpeterse >
which should be done in about 3 weeks from now
14:56
<
crankharder >
kanban boards :(
14:56
<
andrewvos >
brew install sl
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<
yorickpeterse >
crankharder: well it's not entirely a kanban
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<
crankharder >
I've had bad experiences with kanban... let it burn
15:05
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<
yorickpeterse >
in our case it's just a board with the 5 work days on it, combined with some notes about what to do that day
15:06
<
yorickpeterse >
that's just it
15:06
<
crankharder >
yea, burn
15:06
<
yorickpeterse >
so it's sort-of-like-kanban
15:06
<
yorickpeterse >
and it works quite well
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<
prognostikos >
does anyone prefer/use the :: syntax for class methods?
15:12
<
yorickpeterse >
No, never
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<
prognostikos >
apparently my colleague does - 676 files worth
15:19
* prognostikos
weeps
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<
prognostikos >
wouldn't be so bad if gf in vim worked
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<
cout >
I don't think you can code a gf in vim
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<
prognostikos >
weird science
15:25
<
wmoxam >
how can you specify which bundler config file to use inside a ruby script?
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<
atmosx >
what is a gf?
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<
cout >
atmosx: a mythical creature that eats money
15:29
<
atmosx >
cout: I don't like it
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<
injekt >
without caps
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<
emmdeeess >
can anyone tell me how to close a sequel connection?
16:06
<
emmdeeess >
that code keeps starting new processes until my CPU is maxed out
16:06
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<
injekt >
emmdeeess: db.disconnect
16:07
<
emmdeeess >
that's it?
16:07
<
injekt >
that closes the pool of connections
16:07
<
emmdeeess >
well, that was easy
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<
Aloysius1 >
rickhull: Thanks!
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<
MouseTheLuckyDog >
Is there a way to save my environment and then reload it from another program?
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<
havenwood >
MouseTheLuckyDog: Whatcha mean by environment?
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<
MouseTheLuckyDog >
havenwood, the runtiem envoronment.
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16:47
<
whitequark >
MouseTheLuckyDog: no, not from within ruby
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<
havenwood >
MouseTheLuckyDog: You might look at MagLev.
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<
whitequark >
but it's 1.8 only and based on proprietary tech which only runs on x86_64
16:55
<
havenwood >
head just went to 1.9, but yeah its alpha and still X86_64 constraint
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<
Aloysius1 >
That's weird. Why would MagLev be hardware limited?
16:59
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16:59
<
whitequark >
proprietary tech
16:59
<
whitequark >
which is only compiled for x86_64
16:59
<
Aloysius1 >
Not very Smalltalky.
17:00
<
whitequark >
real-world smalltalk is rather enterprisey in general.
17:00
<
whitequark >
regardless; I suppose they got some spare bits by requiring a 64-bit host
17:01
<
whitequark >
and since there is no 64-bit ARMs yet on market, and MIPS64 and PPC64 are... marginal, that kind of makes sense
17:01
<
whitequark >
and that all x86 cpus for five years or so support x86_64, even if there's no immediate benefit to using it
17:01
<
whitequark >
heck, even Atoms in netbooks do
17:02
<
havenwood >
Aloysius1: If I recall, you can store as much as you want to the stone (disk persistent), but you have to license for shared-page cache over a couple gigabytes.
17:03
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<
Aloysius1 >
Trying to think of a (personal) use for it other than "gee, that's cool..."
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17:27
<
MouseTheLuckyDog >
Is there a way to save binding?
17:27
<
MouseTheLuckyDog >
TO a file that is.
17:27
<
whitequark >
neither a closure.
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17:27
<
whitequark >
what do you want to achieve?
17:28
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17:28
<
whitequark >
(well, in maglev there is, but I'm assuming you're talking about mri/rbx/jr)
17:28
<
apeiros >
somehow it got quite about maglev :(
17:29
<
MouseTheLuckyDog >
whitequark, I've got a program I want to snapshot and pickup at a later time.
17:30
<
dbussink >
MouseTheLuckyDog: that's basically a full continuation, so it would need to capture all the state etc.
17:30
<
dbussink >
that's not possible on any ruby afaik
17:31
<
whitequark >
dbussink: I
*think* maglev can do that
17:31
<
whitequark >
after you can transfer closures, there isn't much left
17:31
<
dbussink >
whitequark: it might be yeah
17:31
<
whitequark >
besides it's smalltalk. something something virtual image
17:31
<
whitequark >
so it can persist either way
17:31
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17:31
<
dbussink >
yeah, you wouldn't need this for that anyway then
17:32
<
dbussink >
just snapshot the whole vm
17:32
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17:32
<
whitequark >
MouseTheLuckyDog: maybe the OS can support that?
17:33
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17:33
<
whitequark >
wow I didn't think someone actually wrote that
17:33
<
whitequark >
it can even restore network connections
17:33
<
whitequark >
uber cool
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17:37
<
brixen >
maglev should be able to do that
17:37
<
brixen >
it was demo'd in a debugger at pdx.rb
17:38
<
brixen >
ask in #maglev-ruby
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<
diddlybop >
hi, does anyone have experience with the pdf-reader gem?
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<
judofyr >
is there a way to override a class' name/inspect such that an_instance.inspect includes that name?
20:12
<
judofyr >
>> class F; def self.inspect; "Foo" end end; F.new
20:12
<
judofyr >
I want #<Foo:…>
20:12
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<
yorickpeterse >
F.new here would call #inspect
20:15
<
yorickpeterse >
not .inspect
20:15
<
yorickpeterse >
so you'll want a regular instance method
20:15
<
yorickpeterse >
>> class Derp; def inspect; 'herro'; end; end; Derp.new.inspect
20:15
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20:15
<
yorickpeterse >
>> class Derp; def self.inspect; 'herro'; end; end; Derp.inspect
20:15
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20:15
<
judofyr >
yorickpeterse: yes, I know
20:16
<
judofyr >
yorickpeterse: but it includes F in the input
20:16
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20:16
<
judofyr >
yorickpeterse: I want to change that
20:17
<
judofyr >
yorickpeterse: without re-implementing it
20:17
<
yorickpeterse >
Ah, no, you have to re-implement the entire method
20:17
<
judofyr >
yorickpeterse: I guess I can override #inspect and .gsub, but it feels a bit hacky :/
20:17
<
yorickpeterse >
at least as far as I know
20:17
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20:17
<
yorickpeterse >
fun fact: there's some shit going on in MRI where it will basically call #to_s/#inspect even if it's not defined
20:18
<
yorickpeterse >
As in, somewhere deep down in the guts of MRI it gets that format out
20:18
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20:22
<
judofyr >
def inspect; super.sub(/\A#<#<(.*?)>:0x/, "#<#{self.class.name}:0x") end
20:22
<
judofyr >
hacky but works
20:22
<
whitequark >
judofyr: no, don't think you can
20:22
<
whitequark >
MRI accesses the class name directly
20:23
<
whitequark >
judofyr: what you need that for?
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20:23
<
judofyr >
whitequark: in a web framework-thingie I have a method called "helper" that defines a method that's available on all controllers
20:24
<
judofyr >
whitequark: that's simple enough: subclass the controller and include the module with the method
20:24
<
whitequark >
rb_class_name.
20:24
<
judofyr >
whitequark: I don't want to extend every single instance
20:25
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20:25
<
judofyr >
whitequark: and you can instantiate an app multiple times with different helpers (but they use the same controller)
20:25
<
judofyr >
app1.helper(:db) { … }; app2.helper(:db) { … }
20:26
<
judofyr >
although I might need to rethink this approach
20:26
<
judofyr >
it has some flaws :(
20:26
<
judofyr >
or: rethink the requirements
20:26
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<
whitequark >
for example, replace inheritance with indirection
20:27
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<
judofyr >
>> class Foo; end; Foo.method_defined?(:inspect)
20:33
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<
judofyr >
whitequark: I found a better solution: now I just define a method on the main superclass that checks in a @helpers-hash
20:38
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<
judofyr >
thanks, this is much better
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<
judofyr >
can anyone explain me how this can not be bug?
21:20
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21:20
<
judofyr >
the outer #any? defines the `spec` variable
21:20
<
judofyr >
but it's never used
21:22
<
whitequark >
likely just a bug
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21:37
<
judofyr >
WHY U NO TEST?
21:37
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21:40
<
drbrain >
judofyr: bundler has no unit tests
21:40
<
drbrain >
judofyr: which means adding any is nearly impossible
21:40
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21:45
<
judofyr >
I find it amazing that Bundler actually works
21:46
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21:46
<
judofyr >
in related news: I hate Gem::Specification#each :( /cc drbrain
21:46
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21:46
<
drbrain >
why do you hate it?
21:47
<
judofyr >
drbrain: it's slooow
21:47
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21:48
<
judofyr >
drbrain: this test takes ~1s without quickgem and ~350ms with it
21:48
<
judofyr >
well, more like ~400ms
21:48
<
judofyr >
but still
21:48
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21:48
<
judofyr >
that's very noticeable
21:49
<
drbrain >
there's a pull request I'll get to shortly that adds some caching
21:49
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21:49
<
drbrain >
I'm not sure how similar it is to yours as I've only glanced at each
21:50
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21:50
<
judofyr >
drbrain: oh. that's cool. I posted something on rubygems-developers but no-one answered :(
21:50
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21:50
<
whitequark >
bundler kills me on this project
21:50
<
whitequark >
$ time bundle
21:50
<
drbrain >
I am very behind on email
21:50
<
whitequark >
bla bla SIX MINUTES
21:51
<
whitequark >
*headdesk*
21:51
<
judofyr >
drbrain: link to PR?
21:51
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21:55
<
zenspider >
whitequark: SIX MINUTES?!?!?!
21:55
<
zenspider >
please tell me you're exaggerating
21:56
<
whitequark >
zenspider: don't think so
21:56
<
whitequark >
let me re-run it
21:56
<
zenspider >
holy shit
21:56
<
whitequark >
each Using gemname is for 1-1.5 seconds
21:56
<
whitequark >
and there are literally hundreds of them
21:56
<
whitequark >
yikes.
21:56
<
zenspider >
how long does it take for just `gem outdated` ?
21:57
<
zenspider >
I'm curious how much of it is latency on rubygems.org or not
21:57
<
drbrain >
I wouldn't be surprised that network latency is a decent chunk of that time
21:57
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21:57
<
zenspider >
I
_thought_ there was talk that a CDN was set up in europe and/or asia... but I could be smoking something
21:57
<
drbrain >
for gems, but likely not for the bundler API
21:57
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21:58
<
whitequark >
zenspider: gem outdated is super slow
21:58
<
whitequark >
still running
21:58
<
zenspider >
ooh ... good point.
21:58
<
zenspider >
whitequark: how many gems do you have? it'll be proportional to that
21:58
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21:58
* whitequark
goes off to make some tea
21:58
<
whitequark >
$ gem list --local | wc -l
21:58
<
zenspider >
so time and then divide by `gem list | wc -l` or somesuch
21:59
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22:00
<
zenspider >
wait.. wc -l won't be right if you have multiple versions installed
22:00
<
zenspider >
or... n/m. I'm an idiot
22:00
<
zenspider >
need more coffee
22:00
<
whitequark >
it won't indeed
22:00
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22:02
<
whitequark >
ok. bundle: real 3m33.048s
22:02
<
whitequark >
gem outdated: real 4m29.650s
22:02
<
whitequark >
and I have a rather beefy notebook and 50mbit uplink
22:03
<
zenspider >
yeah. it's atlanta if I had to guess
22:03
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22:03
<
zenspider >
err... atlantic
22:04
<
zenspider >
well... you're hitting 0.86s / gem for outdated
22:04
<
zenspider >
that's on the old api
22:04
<
zenspider >
that's not terrible
22:05
<
zenspider >
mine is 0.24s / gem for reference
22:05
<
zenspider >
and taht's over LTE
22:05
<
zenspider >
I only have 11 gems installed globally :)
22:05
<
zenspider >
we should get tenderlove to do this
22:06
<
whitequark >
(LTE) dunno which you use, but LTE over here has a latency not much worse than landline!
22:06
<
whitequark >
dozens of ms
22:06
* whitequark
<3 good LTE
22:06
<
whitequark >
zenspider: I think I have a lot of versions installed.
22:07
<
whitequark >
[3] pry(main)> `gem list --local`.scan(/\d\.\d\.\d/).count
22:07
<
whitequark >
=> 459
22:08
<
judofyr >
whitequark: there's also Gem::Specification.count
22:08
<
zenspider >
that's inaccurate too.... # lines + number of commas :)
22:08
<
yxhuvud >
does it have to do a network roundtrip for each gem?
22:08
<
whitequark >
[4] pry(main)> Gem::Specification.count
22:08
<
whitequark >
=> 513
22:08
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22:08
<
whitequark >
even more
22:09
<
whitequark >
(I guess I've missed on beta/pre's)
22:09
<
whitequark >
so... is half of thousand of gems a problem for rubygems?
22:09
<
judofyr >
I have 481 here
22:09
<
judofyr >
Bundler isn't that slow here
22:09
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22:09
<
judofyr >
but I guess it's a combination of a Gemfile with many gems?
22:09
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22:09
<
zenspider >
whitequark: "1" is a valid version
22:09
<
zenspider >
1.2 too
22:10
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22:11
<
zenspider >
back when we could download an index and cache it it'd be much faster.. now everything is network bound
22:11
<
whitequark >
judofyr: well... this project uses 225 gems
22:11
<
whitequark >
and yes that's insane
22:11
<
zenspider >
and europe & asia are more fucked because it is lots of little requests
22:12
<
whitequark >
hm... I think I understand why this may happen
22:12
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22:12
<
whitequark >
I have git & path gems, so it probably skips bundler resolution API
22:13
<
judofyr >
whitequark: does that happen
*every* time you run `bundle`?
22:13
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22:14
<
whitequark >
judofyr: if it changes anything, then yes
22:14
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22:14
<
whitequark >
just `bundle` after it successfully built stuff is 2s
22:14
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22:14
<
whitequark >
but if I dare to update as much as a single gem... I'm fucked
22:15
<
judofyr >
whitequark: you can run `DEBUG_RESOLVED=1 bundle` to see how it tries to resolve
22:15
<
zenspider >
tenderlove's numbers: 1.226495726s / gem on our cafe's shitty network
22:15
<
zenspider >
he's got 234 gems
22:15
<
judofyr >
whitequark: warning: lots of output, you want to pipe that
22:15
<
judofyr >
whitequark: would be interesting to see if something trips up the resolver
22:15
<
judofyr >
e.g. number of FAIL
22:16
<
zenspider >
I don't think rubygems uses net-http-persistant
22:16
<
drbrain >
it uses equivalent code
22:16
<
zenspider >
well that makes less sense then :(
22:16
<
whitequark >
what about... parallelizing downloads?
22:17
<
judofyr >
the resolver isn't parallel
22:17
<
judofyr >
so it doesn't know what to download
22:17
<
judofyr >
but I guess it could download more than required
22:17
<
judofyr >
and just discard if it made a bad guess
22:17
<
judofyr >
but I'm not touching that file
22:18
<
drbrain >
parallelizing downloads of .gem files is easier than hitting the bundler API
22:19
<
judofyr >
that is true, but is downloading the .gem files a problem?
22:19
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22:24
<
drbrain >
likely only when you have high bandwidth and latency
22:25
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22:26
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22:26
<
yxhuvud >
how do yum and similar solve problems like this?
22:26
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22:27
<
whitequark >
local dep resolution
22:27
<
judofyr >
Sequel takes 115ms to load here :(
22:27
<
whitequark >
no idea why rubygems stopped using it
22:28
<
judofyr >
whitequark: because the index is huge?
22:28
<
whitequark >
judofyr: define huge
22:28
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22:28
<
whitequark >
debian's got 30K packages and it's fine
22:28
<
drbrain >
there are 300,000 gems
22:28
<
judofyr >
and every gem has multiple versions
22:28
<
whitequark >
holy crap
22:29
<
judofyr >
s/every/most/
22:29
<
judofyr >
and those who
*have* multiple versions, probably have dozens
22:29
<
yxhuvud >
would it be too complex to have a partial index for the 1% most popular gems and back off to the slow variant for the rest?
22:30
<
drbrain >
the average size of a gemspec for my gems is just under 2KB
22:30
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22:30
<
judofyr >
you don't need the full gemspec though
22:30
<
judofyr >
only the requirements
22:30
<
drbrain >
that's not the full gemspec
22:30
<
yxhuvud >
also, gemspecs should look similar enough to zip awefully well.
22:30
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22:31
<
yxhuvud >
(maybe not if stripped to reqs)
22:31
<
whitequark >
yxhuvud: you still need RAM to unpack
22:31
<
drbrain >
André Arko is working on a new format that likely will use HTTP Range requests
22:31
<
whitequark >
sooo 2K gemspec * 300K gems = 600M of index data
22:32
<
whitequark >
which compresses say to 60M of stuff on disk, which you still need to load, unpack, and operate on
22:32
<
drbrain >
just the gem names and versions is 4.6MB uncompressed
22:32
<
whitequark >
don't forget that it will expand twice or so in ruby's heap
22:33
<
judofyr >
you might not need to store everything in-memory
22:33
<
whitequark >
and graph operations genereally tend to be quite nonlocal wrt/ memory, which means that you will very likely to load it completely.
22:33
<
whitequark >
*need to
22:33
<
judofyr >
whitequark: well, you rarely touch the whole graph
22:34
<
whitequark >
judofyr: point is, you can't seek the compressed graph
22:34
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22:34
<
whitequark >
neither you can seek the uncompressed one well
22:34
<
whitequark >
or at least I'm not aware of such algorithms
22:36
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22:38
<
yxhuvud >
sort the data (ouch), chunk it up in zipped chunks, create an index that says where each chunk start and end, stream through each matching chunk. Shouldn't take all that much memory, and each individual lookup should be reasonably fast. doing several hundred may not be the fastest operation around, but should not take minutes. especially not if queueing up several lookups so files can be read in parallell.
22:39
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22:39
<
yxhuvud >
(or well, the files should not be read in parallel, but one can be read while another is streamed through.
22:39
<
whitequark >
yxhuvud: sure. however, graph resolution algorithms have poor spatial locality
22:39
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22:40
<
whitequark >
which means, your requests to the backing store will be distributed pretty evenly; in other words, you'll need to load a chunk for each gem.
22:40
<
whitequark >
given that linear reads are much faster than random, and CPUs are much, much faster than hard drives... it's very likely that it's faster to just load the whole thing
22:40
<
judofyr >
whitequark: still faster than network
22:40
<
whitequark >
or rather, that seeking over it is even slower than loading whole thing :)
22:40
<
whitequark >
judofyr: sure. the network was out of equation here
22:40
<
judofyr >
whitequark: well, it's also a trade-off of how much memory you want to use
22:41
<
whitequark >
judofyr: time<>RAM, yes
22:41
<
judofyr >
I love fast tests. in "real 0m0.387s" this test: loads the app, sets up the schema in SQLite in-memory, starts a HTTP server on a local port, connects to the server and asserts on the response.
22:42
* whitequark
silently weeps
22:42
<
judofyr >
and 100ms of that is loading Sequel; 100ms is loading other Ruby code
22:42
<
judofyr >
s/loading/requiring/
22:42
<
judofyr >
my Rails test don't even start running until 4-5 seconds or so
22:44
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22:44
<
whitequark >
$ time rspec... about four minutes
22:45
<
drbrain >
whitequark: you can operate zlib in a way that allows seeking to byte offsets in the uncompressed stream
22:45
<
whitequark >
no wonder I basically gave up writing tests for this app :/
22:45
<
whitequark >
drbrain: hm, does the ruby zlib binding allow it?
22:45
<
drbrain >
I forget if it does or not
22:46
<
drbrain >
it may only have partial support
22:46
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22:54
<
erikh >
some of my vm testing has runs that are 10-20 minutes
22:54
<
erikh >
unfortunately necessary
22:54
<
erikh >
it's ... really tedious
22:54
<
whitequark >
erikh: rails and rspec. sigh
22:54
<
whitequark >
I would migrate this project to minitest but I don't work much on it anymore, thankfully/unfortunately
22:54
<
erikh >
either get friendly with mocks and accept the fact you're not going to get real test data back or .. yeah
22:55
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22:55
<
whitequark >
and AR... we're stuck with AR. pretty much.
22:55
<
erikh >
I doubt @ four minutes
22:55
<
erikh >
rspec is the issue
22:55
<
erikh >
AR on the other hand might be
22:55
<
whitequark >
erikh: well, maybe not rspec itself is slow
22:55
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22:55
<
whitequark >
but it surely encourages the style of programming which is not very performant
22:55
<
erikh >
rspec is slow, but not
*that* slow. :)
22:55
<
erikh >
not going to disagree with that, but I avoid rspec
22:55
<
erikh >
so it's been a while since I've had to use it
22:56
<
whitequark >
I think that various combinations of let/before(:each)/etc result in a LOT of unnecessary db roundtrips
22:56
<
erikh >
oh, very possible, yeah.
22:56
<
whitequark >
it helps a little bit to have the DB on tmpfs, but really not much
22:56
<
whitequark >
ruby is the bottlenech
22:56
<
judofyr >
as long as I can run a single test, I don't really care how long the whole suite takes
22:56
<
erikh >
tmpfs probably isn't getting you much if your database is ram-starved
22:56
<
judofyr >
but if it takes more then 10s to run a single test, I'm not going to run that test often…
22:57
<
yxhuvud >
One really has to avoid hitting the db whenever possible.
22:57
<
whitequark >
judofyr: when single test runs for more than 15 seconds, I get bored and switch to reddit
22:57
<
whitequark >
exactly
22:57
<
whitequark >
erikh: don't think it is. I used tmpfs to avoid sync() calls waiting the hard drive
22:57
<
whitequark >
(yeah, no SSD)
22:58
<
erikh >
sure, I get it
22:58
<
erikh >
but if you're using postgres, and depending on the mysql config, more ram == less disk writes
22:58
<
whitequark >
but, I suck at configuring postgres, suck hard
22:58
<
erikh >
just set shared_buffer_cache to the ceiling
22:58
<
erikh >
it'll go pretty far.
22:58
<
whitequark >
I've no idea how it works. I grok SQL, I grok the insides of the DB
22:58
<
whitequark >
but the config? impenetrable.
22:59
<
erikh >
there are other tunables for indexes and such, but they all pull from the shared buffers IIRC
22:59
<
whitequark >
it has like six config files in /etc -_-
22:59
<
erikh >
postgresql.conf likely
22:59
<
whitequark >
god I hate postgres's UI
22:59
<
erikh >
it's not my favorite either
22:59
<
erikh >
ok, back to scanner time
22:59
<
whitequark >
no shared_buffer_cache in either
23:00
<
whitequark >
ah. shared_buffers = 24MB
23:00
<
whitequark >
4G should be fine
23:00
<
erikh >
4G should probably help a great deal
23:00
<
erikh >
but that page above will help if it's still not fast enough
23:01
<
erikh >
you'll have to adjust shm crap
23:01
<
erikh >
shmmax sysctl on linux IIRC
23:01
<
whitequark >
oh yes, it just barfed
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23:02
<
erikh >
anyhow, gotta go back to what I was doing
23:02
<
erikh >
that page will help
23:02
<
whitequark >
yeah, thanks!
23:02
<
erikh >
memory for indexes and buffers are the big things.
23:02
<
erikh >
and watch your queries for temp table shit
23:02
<
erikh >
that's killing your prod perf too
23:03
<
whitequark >
prod's got about 30 req/s
23:03
<
whitequark >
it used to be bad... when each single hit on static resources did two db roundtrips
23:03
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23:03
<
whitequark >
but we deployed the fix just today. instagood
23:03
<
erikh >
30 req/s is ... not exactly great
23:03
<
whitequark >
erikh: no no, 30 req/s is our traffic
23:04
<
whitequark >
down from... multiply 30 req/s to an average of three dozen assets
23:04
<
erikh >
oh, I didn't read
23:04
<
erikh >
ok, really gotta go now
23:04
<
whitequark >
can't. but I rewrote half of the infra to make nginx serve that
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23:14
<
zenspider >
man I love being able to do this: for f in *.el ; do of new emacs Blog about $f; done
23:14
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23:14
<
zenspider >
then I just organize in omnifocus and boom... shit gets done
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23:22
<
whitequark >
hahaha this rspec suite is awesome
23:22
<
whitequark >
Finished in 16 minutes 7.84 seconds
23:23
<
whitequark >
when coworker said he reduced the time wrt/ original 20 minutes he wasn't joking
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23:28
<
zenspider >
whitequark: how many tests?
23:28
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23:28
<
whitequark >
551 examples, 2 failures, 20 pending
23:28
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23:28
<
zenspider >
gah. that's just shitty tests then. damn.
23:28
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23:28
<
whitequark >
yeah :/
23:29
<
whitequark >
practically every test does a LOT of persisting of factory-created objects
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