apeiros changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Nick registration required to talk || Ruby 2.0.0-p195: http://ruby-lang.org (Ruby 1.9.3-p429) || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com
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<Kellin>
need guidance please - installed ruby 2.0.0p195 with Homebrew, have updated rdoc and installed rdoc-data in an attempt to get 'ri <CLASS>' to work, still getting nothing known message
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<gnufied>
it is because rubygems installed via apt-get installs in that path
<gnufied>
welcome to debian
<injekt>
moin
<gnufied>
morning injekt
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<injekt>
howdy gnufied
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<crazyhorse>
ah.. how can i override it?
<gnufied>
injekt: came back from rubyconfindia. lot of good speakers etc. but drank bit too much.
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<injekt>
gnufied: nice!
<gnufied>
crazyhorse: can you not just specify —path when installing gems for that particular app?
<gnufied>
I won't recommend overriding for default rubygems
<gnufied>
crazyhorse: check gem env
<gnufied>
"gem env"
<crazyhorse>
gnufied: i have.. it's not in there
<gnufied>
that should give you clearer picture of where things are going
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<gnufied>
crazyhorse: and you installed rubygems via apt-get right?
<crazyhorse>
gnufied: hmm yeah but i'm setting up development environments for everyone
<crazyhorse>
gnufied: let me check
<gnufied>
I give up.
<gnufied>
let them setup their own development environment
<crazyhorse>
yeah ok .. i installed rbenv first.. i installed ruby via rbenv
<crazyhorse>
then i installed sudo apt-get install ruby gems and sudo apt-get install ruby-bundler
<crazyhorse>
after restarting the shell
<injekt>
zzak: booked my arrrrcamp ticket :)
<gnufied>
crazyhorse: wtf
<gnufied>
why are you installing stuff from apt-get when using rbenv?
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<crazyhorse>
because i was following the instructions
<gnufied>
what instructions?
<crazyhorse>
on the rbenv website
<gnufied>
and which version of ruby we are talking about?
<gnufied>
ruby comes with rubygems
<crazyhorse>
gnufied: you ask that question like this is obvious
<gnufied>
I am sorry.
<gnufied>
it is just that usual practice is:
<gnufied>
1. install rbenv
<gnufied>
2. install rbenv-builder plugin
<gnufied>
3. use the plugin to install ruby
<crazyhorse>
ah right.. maybe i need to uninstall rubygems
<gnufied>
4. rubygems is part of ruby, no separate installation necessary
<crazyhorse>
and start over
<crazyhorse>
because it's getting confused
<gnufied>
can you link me to the rbenv which says after installing rbenv proceed to install ruby using apt-get?
<gnufied>
rbenv page*
<injekt>
ruby-build plugin*
<gnufied>
yes sorry, the plugin is ruby-build not ruby-builder . thanks injekt
<injekt>
(also chruby + ruby-install ftw)
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<gnufied>
see, that is where hipsters go. avoid that route.
<gnufied>
:-)
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<crazyhorse>
i actually take these long installation notes, with links to all the websites i got the info from
<crazyhorse>
unfortunately the apt-get install rubygems
<crazyhorse>
i seem to have just made up :/
<crazyhorse>
by myself lol
<crazyhorse>
i just checked the 4 links.. and none of them had it
<gnufied>
injekt: seriously though why chruby and ruby-install?
<injekt>
gnufied: because imo they're better (no shims, ruby-install just worked for me, ruby-build didn't, plus ruby-install installs all necessary deps)
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<crazyhorse>
awesome that fixed it
<crazyhorse>
gnufied: thankyou :D and sorry for the mistake
<crazyhorse>
i've updated my docs .. haha
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<bnagy>
injekt: fwiw if you use jruby and want to track master rbenv is very convenient exactly because of the shims
<judofyr>
gnufied: +1 chruby: no shims, no shills. just works. uses the same gem directory when I upgrade patchlevels.
<bnagy>
you can just symlink the jruby dir in and create a ruby -> jruby symlink in the shim dir
<injekt>
bnagy: sure no doubt. I don't, so it's not so beneficial for me
<bnagy>
to save constantly typing ruby then ^ru^jru
<injekt>
I mean, chruby and ruby-install kinda just follows the "*nix way" so you can do what you want with it, no magic, simplicity
<bnagy>
I never use ruby-build though, the one time I played with it it was annoying
<judofyr>
bnagy: seems like an easy feature to add to ruby-install
<bnagy>
well rbenv is *nix as well
<injekt>
well
<bnagy>
shims are common
<judofyr>
bnagy: chruby doesn't care how you build it as long ~/.rubies/ruby-name/bin/ruby exists
<injekt>
I guess when I say "*nix way" I mean load it into your path and everything works
<bnagy>
judofyr: well neither does rbenv
<judofyr>
bnagy: then how is rbenv more convenient? :) seems just the same to me.
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<bnagy>
it's much of a muchness I guess, as long as your ruby symlink didn't get clobbered
<judofyr>
bnagy: cd ~/.rubies; git clone git@github.com:jruby/jruby.git jruby-master; cd jruby-master; ant
<bnagy>
imo there's not enough difference between rbenv and chruby to give a crap about
<judofyr>
then: chruby jruby-master; ruby -v
<bnagy>
at least neither of them are rvm
<judofyr>
*shrugs*
<injekt>
hey if I dont have to remember to rehash, I've saved a step
<bnagy>
don't think I ever rehashed
<judofyr>
rehashes are more annoying than shims IMO
<bnagy>
it does it for you when you switch
<injekt>
I dont switch that often
<bnagy>
but honestly, if you want to chruby fanboy, then go for the ruby-install vs ruby-build
<injekt>
lol fanboy
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<judofyr>
bnagy: I frankly don't care what you use. you mentioning that "rbenv was more convenient", and I don't think that's the case. but yeah, no need to switch if you're happy with rbenv.
<bnagy>
judofyr: I said very convenient, but yeah
<judofyr>
bnagy: I just know that all of my Ruby switching problems disappeared when I switched to chruby :)
<judofyr>
ah
<judofyr>
oh well
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<bnagy>
I have nothing against chruby, I just have no reason to switch and I don't know any way in which it's better than rbenv
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<bnagy>
ruby-install is superior to ruby-build
<judofyr>
yeah, I felt like that for a long time too. rehashing switched me in the end.
<postmodern>
bnagy, no worries, if RVM/rbenv suits your needs then stick with it
<injekt>
+1 for me
<bnagy>
mostly I recommend chruby to noobs
<postmodern>
bnagy, RVM totally kicked ass in the workshop I did
<bnagy>
:<
<postmodern>
bnagy, people had lots of issues configuring rbenv (forgetting to add .rbenv/shims to $PATH)
<bnagy>
well if you just cannot unix at all then I guess you're in good company with rvm
<bnagy>
bash < curl ftw
<postmodern>
while it's invasive, having rvm's install script add itself to .bash_profile is a user-friendly move
<postmodern>
or having some stock configuration you can drop in
<bnagy>
oh it hoses your bash profile automatically now?
<bnagy>
you use to have to hose it yourself manually
<postmodern>
bnagy, tries to intelligently add a . .rvm/... line
<postmodern>
s/add/append/g
<gnufied>
bnagy: rehash is required.
<gnufied>
rvm is but huge pain. rvm use doesn't work most of the time programmatically (when invoked from shell scripts)
<bnagy>
gnufied: when you install yeah
<gnufied>
bnagy: nah. if your gem has a binary then you need to rehash as well, I think
<bnagy>
probably
<bnagy>
which always happens
<bnagy>
:D
<gnufied>
happens? lol
<gnufied>
worth checking our chruby I guess. postmodern hangs out here to that is +1
<bnagy>
because of all the tech support I'll need?
<postmodern>
lol
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<postmodern>
bnagy is self-sufficient, thegrugq on the other hand ...
<bnagy>
hahah
<postmodern>
can't even setup octopress :P
<bnagy>
well that sounds awful to be fair
<postmodern>
yeah, also why i avoid octopress
<gnufied>
so you agree it complex?
<postmodern>
fairly, i sort of wish we'd just use better jekyll generators
<gnufied>
getting all static site generators to do your bidding is crappy.
<gnufied>
we use nanoc
<bnagy>
anyway, it's the same with pry. I recommend it to noobs, it might be better, I just don't use it because there's nothing that makes it worth the effort of setting up
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<postmodern>
instead of using multiple branches and rewriting master branch
<bnagy>
I switch rubies like once a year
<gnufied>
bnagy: source-location etc?
<gnufied>
I wouldn't know what I would do without pry
<bnagy>
not going to go and rebuild a ton of servers
<postmodern>
i don't use chruby on servers
<bnagy>
I can't even begin to imagine a use case for me for source-location
<postmodern>
use the package managers ruby or install into /usr/local
* postmodern
old skewl
<gnufied>
bnagy: clearly you have never debugged a rails app.
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<bnagy>
happily, that is the case
<gnufied>
a gnarly meta programmed method
<gnufied>
just very hard to figure out otherwise.
<bnagy>
sounds awful, and you have my condolences for working with rails
<bnagy>
I don't
<gnufied>
do you I have your condolences or not? I am confused.
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<gnufied>
:-)
<bnagy>
>X( not a dangling modifier!
* bnagy
shakes tiny fist
<gnufied>
I heard you were in Nepal. still there?
<bnagy>
nope, awaiting new post
<bnagy>
at this second I am in australia
<gnufied>
cool.
<bnagy>
most of this year we've been living in thailand
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<postmodern>
bnagy, how do you adjust to living upside down?
<bnagy>
postmodern: hey are you doing the matasano crypto stuff?
<postmodern>
bnagy, not right now, but i probably should
<bnagy>
thailand is so fricking luxurious after nepal omg
<yorickpeterse>
morning
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<postmodern>
yorickpeterse, evening
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<crazyhorse>
hey ok
<crazyhorse>
i've got a a directory called /storage/gems which contains every single gem i need it's currently owned by root
<crazyhorse>
i'd like to run bundle install for ruby 1.9.x using rbenv to install the gems for this particular app
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<crazyhorse>
how do i make it get the gems from that location.. the gems are in the .gem format
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<judofyr>
crazyhorse: `ls` ?
<gnufied>
bnagy: how costly is thailand? per day expense approx?
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<crazyhorse>
judofyr: ls what?
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<judofyr>
crazyhorse: ls the directory
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<judofyr>
crazyhorse: read the filenames
<crazyhorse>
yeah the filenames are the gem files
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<crazyhorse>
activerecord-1.8.2.gem etc
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<crazyhorse>
i'd like to tell bundler when it goes to load gems it should get them from that directory
<crazyhorse>
rather than connecting to rubygems
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<judofyr>
oh
<judofyr>
hm
<judofyr>
not sure actually
<crazyhorse>
in my rails apps i massivly cheated
<crazyhorse>
i symlinked /vendor/rails to that directory
<crazyhorse>
and ran bundle install --no-cache --no-prune
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<crazyhorse>
sorry symlinked /vendor/cache to /storage/gems
<judofyr>
hah
<judofyr>
nice
<crazyhorse>
then ran bundle install --local --no-cache --no-prune --gemfile Gemfile
<Zeeo>
hey guys, I think I messed up something. Ruby has never worked well with sqlite3 on my system for god knows what reason, but I had managed to make it work with a package I've downloaded(from this thread https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rubyinstaller/gedIaMryCFQ/99NlyvecwmAJ). Now, I did a bundle install and it has installed the default version, destroying my previous configuration. I've tried to re-install the package but something is g
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<judofyr>
postmodern: English is hard
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<postmodern>
judofyr, it is!
<postmodern>
judofyr, we should switch to esparanto or ePrime
<judofyr>
postmodern: Lojban is pretty cool. it doesn't have a concept of verbs, nouns or adjectives
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<yorickpeterse>
lol Linux: macbook fans spin up, lm_sensors reports the temp is almost 90C. Suspend, problem fixed
<judofyr>
postmodern: instead it has "selbri" (relationships). so there's a word for "x1 gives x2 to x3". and then you can fill in the variables
<yorickpeterse>
It's a bit sad when suspending fixes these problems
<judofyr>
so "I give this to you" uses the same word as "I receive this from you"
<judofyr>
(dunda is the word)
<postmodern>
judofyr, sounds like STL for english
<judofyr>
and "a gift" is also based on the same word
<postmodern>
judofyr, or LISP macros for english
<judofyr>
there's a way to turn a relationships to things
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<judofyr>
another example: "zdani" means "x1 is a home to x2". thus "ti zdani mi" means "I live here/this is my home", while "zdani mi" means "I have a home"
<judofyr>
postmodern: it's very composable
<postmodern>
judofyr, what happens when a new noun is defined?
<judofyr>
postmodern: there's special rules for creating new selbris
<judofyr>
postmodern: Lojban is completely unambiguous so you can always remove all the spaces and everything would still make sense
<postmodern>
judofyr, idk i think german might have a leg up on lojban
<judofyr>
postmodern: "tizdanimi" is just as "valid" as "ti zdani mi"
<postmodern>
judofyr, from what i've heard, the committee that controls the modern german language has been deprecating their more confusing grammar rules
<postmodern>
judofyr, only in germany do they have an organization and a specification for their language
<judofyr>
postmodern: we also have something similar in Norway: Norsk Språkråd (Norwegian Language Council?) but they're not really tweaking the rules that much. it's more about new words and different endings
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<judofyr>
dernise: forks can be confusing…
<charliesome>
judofyr: yup
<charliesome>
don't try this at home kiddies
<charliesome>
but open pry
<charliesome>
type 2.times { fork }
<charliesome>
and hold down ^C
<yorickpeterse>
offf, that's it?
<yorickpeterse>
* pfff
<charliesome>
yorickpeterse: depends what you're referring to by "it"
<dernise>
Ahah, ok thanks. :)
<yorickpeterse>
charliesome: as in, a proper fork bomb
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<dernise>
But will the else be run ?
<charliesome>
yorickpeterse: it segfaults mri
<judofyr>
dernise: yes, but by a different process
<judofyr>
dernise: so they will run in parllel
<dernise>
Let's resume. The parent process is the application, right?
<judofyr>
yes
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<judofyr>
oh
<dernise>
This process will run if child = Daemonize.safefork
<judofyr>
yes
<dernise>
This wil invoke a child process ?
<dernise>
will*
<judofyr>
dernise: yes, it will start a child process, but it will be a copy of the parent
<judofyr>
dernise: so it has all the same objects
<judofyr>
dernise: but they're copied. so if you modify something in the child, it doesn't change the parent
<dernise>
Oh I see. I didn't know that.
<dernise>
And will the child run this function as well?
<judofyr>
.safefork will then return "twice": once in the parent process (then it returns the child process ID) and once in the child process (returning nil)
<charliesome>
yorickpeterse: its playback is janky
<charliesome>
this is smooth
<judofyr>
smooooth
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<yorickpeterse>
showterm works fine for me
<yorickpeterse>
also dat $PROMPT
<yorickpeterse>
hahaha wtf
<charliesome>
yorickpeterse: dat prompt?
<yorickpeterse>
IRB doesn't segfault
<charliesome>
weird
<yorickpeterse>
it just doesn't want to die after that unless you kill it
<charliesome>
must be something that pry does
<charliesome>
with readline funkiness
<yorickpeterse>
yeah, MRI is flawless
<yorickpeterse>
don't be hatin'
<charliesome>
its a bug in ext/readline i'd say
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<yorickpeterse>
Allright folks, I need to grab my shit and head to the airport
<yorickpeterse>
TO THE GREECE MOBILE!
<yorickpeterse>
(man that one was terrible)
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<dernise>
I'm a *nix system. :)
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<dernise>
In fact, I'm trying to run a program as a daemon and monitor it.
<dernise>
Is fork a good solution?
<dernise>
I looked at similar codes they all seemed to use fork.
<darix>
dernise: it is normal for daemons to fork
<darix>
there are some init systems which want daemons to run in foreground (daemontools/runit/systemd)
<darix>
but most want the daemon to fork away
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<dernise>
I see
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<erikh>
most have an option to turn fork off.
<erikh>
what program is this?
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<erikh>
it's usually called "foreground" or "daemon no" or something like that.
<gnufied>
erikh: this conversation reminds me. you were saying some supervisors can track double fork
<gnufied>
(which upstart doesn't)
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<erikh>
gnufied: monit
<erikh>
is the one I'm most familiar with -- smf can too.
<erikh>
smf is probably the most exciting one of all the ones I've used.
<erikh>
even if xml
<erikh>
launchd can too.
<darix>
gnufied: systemd also tries to track the pid of things started from lsb init scripts
<gnufied>
I suppose they write pid of things yes
<erikh>
need to get ready for work
<erikh>
ttfn
<maloik_>
I have an object that I want to generate a string for that is basically a config file, but it requires tons of interpolating inside that string, as well as proper formatting and some regular ruby... what is the best way to build such a method ?
<maloik_>
by generate a string I mean create a method that outputs a string
<judofyr>
maloik_: ERB?
<judofyr>
TEMPLATE = ERB.new(<<-EOF) … EOF
<judofyr>
TEMPLATE.result(binding)
<maloik_>
that might work yea, lets see
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<dernise>
Fork is really insteresting.
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<apeiros>
the gem 'fork'?
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<gnufied>
it was a shame github removed "harcode forking" message
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<dernise>
No, Process::fork :)
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<maloik_>
judofyr: inside such an EOF 'block', is it not possible to use an if block ? oO
<dernise>
On *nix systems, if I kill a parent process, will the child process be killed as well?
<maloik_>
can only seem to interpolate things using #{'whatever' if true}
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<gnufied>
dernise: yes, mostly.
<gnufied>
unless parent chose to detach itself from the child
<dernise>
Like this ?
<dernise>
::Process.detach(child)
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<injekt>
zzak: hah arrrcamp and wgr are close together :D
<maloik_>
internet highfive to you two for coming over to ghent though ;)
<GarethAdams>
maloik_: a heredoc block is just like a double quoted string
<maloik_>
yea I figured as much, that kind of sucks in this case :-)
<maloik_>
trying to generate an apache config which means I need formatting to be correct while also allowing both interpolating and ruby blocks
<gnufied>
dernise: yes.
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<injekt>
maloik_: it's only a couple of hours for me :)
<injekt>
also +1 for use erb
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<maloik_>
I'm using ERB together with such a heredoc block, hence the problem
<maloik_>
but its okay I extracted it into a new class and added a couple different methods
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<maloik_>
injekt: you're fairly young/new to development I suppose?
<maloik_>
seeing as its your first conf
<ericwood>
iirc injekt is pretty knowledgabe about stuff
<ericwood>
he never seemed like a jr dev to me
<ericwood>
he r good at computer
<maloik_>
doesnt mean he can't be new though :-)
<maloik_>
some people are fast learners
<ericwood>
I hate those people, they make me look bad :|
<maloik_>
*jealous cursing* :-)
<injekt>
maloik_: na I just never really had the money
<injekt>
that's why it's taken so long
<maloik_>
ah ok
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<injekt>
(I own a company so not too new to development)
<ericwood>
how do y'all define jr dev?
<injekt>
but I'm young and have an accent that would melt your heart
<ericwood>
for example, I'm pretty fresh out of school (6 months), but I've been doing web dev for as long as I can remember
<maloik_>
lmao :-)
<maloik_>
ericwood: I have no clue really... suppose everyone defines it another way
<ericwood>
I'm biased towards considering myself a "medium-level dev"
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<maloik_>
I learned development after my day job for about 6 months (that means I was really slow and really bad) before I got this job, which I've been at for a year now
<ericwood>
as in I probably shouldn't be in charge of stuff but I can make things happen :P
<maloik_>
so I consider myself a junior
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<ericwood>
I guess compared to a lot of people here I'm a jr
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<ericwood>
10+ years of experience really does make a difference compared to my 6 months of real work experience
<ericwood>
(not including internships)
<gnufied>
alright
<gnufied>
injekt: which company?
<injekt>
gnufied: allur.com but I now work at loco2.com
<gnufied>
I own a company too and it seems we can some "synergy". :D
<judofyr>
that splat might be a bit too much if you're new to Ruby…
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<injekt>
possibly, I'm just writing it how I'd write it is all
<judofyr>
but yeah, it's better
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<ericwood>
sorry got distracted
<Joni_79>
I understand the logic here, and I can see that is clearly much more compact and elegant
<ericwood>
just use injekt's refactoring
<injekt>
and if you dont understand what *args does, use judofyrs
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<Joni_79>
the koans template had the method defined as trianglke(a, b, c) and the tests call it like triangle(2, 2, 2), should that be a problem if you use triangle(*args) format?
<judofyr>
Joni_79: nope
<judofyr>
Joni_79: *args captures all arguments as an Array
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<Joni_79>
injekt, judofyr and ericwood: thanks, really. :)
<judofyr>
Joni_79: no problem! we hang around here all the time :)
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<Joni_79>
I do too, but I've never had a nicely formulated problem / question before that I could ask. :)
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<judofyr>
Joni_79: well, it was a decent question. would answer again. A++
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<judofyr>
I'm out for today!
<judofyr>
later
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<ij>
Why are there two lexxer tables in MRI implementation? Both in lex.c and parse.y.
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<jMCg>
Hello happy people o/~
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<jMCg>
I'm using 2.0.0-p195 and compiling the new passenger 4.0.5 against it, and failing. This is the Makefile that passenger generates: http://apaste.info/7eO4 and to me it's missing the baseline of declarations.
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<jMCg>
ohhhh.
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<jMCg>
it works perfectly fine, unless I use DESTDIR
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<TTilus>
ij: are they identical? if not, they might do different things, but honestly ive got no idea
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<ij>
TTilus, Content is similar, if not identical.
<ij>
But it seems like this is not a very easy thing to do.
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<TTilus>
ive been told that parse.y is complicated (you hear people use profane words to describe the level of complexity)
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<ij>
They're very right. I gave up rather quickly.
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<injekt>
fuck parse.y
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<erikh>
it's just as bad in perl
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<zzak>
jMCg: there was a bug with DESTDIR recently
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<injekt>
erikh: but that's wonderful
<erikh>
ha yes
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<injekt>
sweet it took less than 3 weeks for me to break everything at loco2
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<jMCg>
zzak: this seems to be a regression. DESTDIR should be prepended in install: not to the base-line defintion of $(prefix)
<jMCg>
zzak: that pull is closed - eta for release?
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<dernise>
Is there a good lib to handle events and, for example , call an event every x minutes. (such as check if the ping between 2 servers is less than 100ms)
<zzak>
jMCg: next patch level release, idk when
<TTilus>
dernise: scheduling?
<TTilus>
dernise: google for ruby scheduling
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<jMCg>
wow.. I.. hate Ubuntu's ruby.
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<matti>
jMCg: system one?
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<matti>
zzak: Back from JP?
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<jMCg>
matti: yeah.
<matti>
jMCg: 1.8.7 yeah...
<matti>
jMCg: Brightbox have some nice decent packages if you want to replace it.
<matti>
There is super old 1.9.x in Ubuntu to IIRC.
<jMCg>
matti: at $bigCo we're using the system one because most of our infrastructure depends on ruby (foreman, puppet, mcollective, etc..)
<lucas>
jMCg: could you please file a bug, being slightly more specific, preferably?
<jMCg>
matti: at $smallCo, I'm building/packaging it myself, sooooo much less pain.
<jMCg>
lucas: I'm generally assuming that I'm doing something wrong, so I'll first try to find out and fix that, for one, for the other: bug against 1.8.7? Isn't that rather.. dead?
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<jMCg>
hrm.. found the issue.
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<lucas>
you are using an ubuntu release that is more than a year old. why do you assume that you get a ruby that is more recent than that?
<jMCg>
lucas: I'm not making any such ass-umptions. Anyway, I found the issue: It's mix-up with the chroots during the build process.
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<lucas>
heh, so at least it confirms I was right to stop working on ruby for debian. having people always blame the distro first was so not fun.
<jMCg>
lucas: that's the problem with packaging, you can never ever satisfy everyone, you can at best satify 10-15% - but you'll straight off piss off the rest.
<zzak>
matti: yessir
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<lucas>
jMCg: the ruby community is the only one that thinks that if you ruby version is > 2 weeks old, it's completely obsolete, though
<jMCg>
lucas: I'm packaging PHP and ruby for my devs, because that's what we're working with. If we were working with Python and/or Perl, I'd be packaging those too.
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<matti>
zzak: Enjoyed it?
<matti>
zzak: I am back in August.
<matti>
jMCg: It seems about right on Debian-ish -- this paste.
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<matti>
lucas: You should be glad you are not responsible for anything on CentOS.
<matti>
lucas: People would go after you with pitchforks ;p
<lucas>
what's the status on centos?
<matti>
Not only old as hell, but also people go "meh".
<matti>
But, everything is old as hell on CentOS / RHEL.
<matti>
But, there is some light -- recently RH promised updated packages.
<jMCg>
matti: isn't that why they brought out that package with all the new stuff?
<lucas>
the problem with distros is that we need to ensure consistency distro-wide. we can't just upgrade ruby and hope everything will be fine
<lucas>
the high number of crappy gems make it very hard to switch from 1.8 to 1.9
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<matti>
lucas: We do two things -- have stable ish 1.9.3 as our system Ruby built to replace default one -- compliant to Debian policies.
<matti>
lucas: For use with Chef etc.
<jMCg>
lucas: as you've said yourself already, 1.9 is already obsolete..
<lucas>
we made the switch in Debian wheezy, but we know it broke lots of things
<matti>
lucas: And each of our projects can boundle its own Ruby under /opt.
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<matti>
lucas: We also do not care about fiddlign with rbenv / rvm.
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<lucas>
matti: have you considered contributing your packaging to Debian?
<matti>
lucas: Is there anyone whom would accept?
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<matti>
lucas: Brightbox tried and they got told to GTFO.
<jMCg>
matti: I've found rbenv/rvm to be extremely not so good on servers
<matti>
jMCg: Indeed.
<lucas>
we now have infrastructure for having several co-existing ruby installs (1.8/1.9/2.0), and switching between them
<matti>
lucas: I'd love to get Debian up-to-speed with Ruby :)
<matti>
lucas: Ubuntu et al
<lucas>
matti: talk to debian-ruby@lists.debian.org
<matti>
lucas: There is no need for people to bitch about it.
<lucas>
Ubuntu just takes Debian packages
<matti>
I know
<matti>
lucas: We have some custom patches, though.
<matti>
lucas: Like lutimes support which is yet to be added in 2.0.x
<matti>
zzak: Is it still the case? Will they include my patch? ;p
* matti
hugs zzak
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<matti>
lucas: Let me think about it -- as getting into help with package maintenance is a lot of work later on (which you know yourself very well), and I do not want to not have the time later on.
<matti>
lucas: :)
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<jMCg>
matti: what's lutimes?
<lucas>
matti: it's team-maintained, you don't need to promise you will maintain it for the next 10 years
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<lucas>
matti: AFAIK (as I'm not involved in that part of the distro anymore), the current big thing is packaging ruby 2.0
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<pellis>
hello
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<pellis>
i want to do a webcast and wondering what's a good workflow for discussing code and showing how it works. should I code in Vim and alt-tab to show it running or is there some Vim eval thing?
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<rickhull>
you could use a REPL like irb or pry
<pellis>
I'd like to show threaded code too though
<rickhull>
i don't see why that's a problem
<rickhull>
if it is, then just have an editor window and an execution window
<TheMoonMaster>
pellis: Code in vim, run elsewhere.
<rickhull>
or exit the editor to execute
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<pellis>
in Vim? there's a buffer that's like a terminal? (i actually like macvim and not the terminal running vim)
<TheMoonMaster>
I use MacVim and most people who do screencasts write code in their editor and execute elsewhere like a terminal or something.
<TheMoonMaster>
It's far cleaner and easier.
<pellis>
TheMoonMaster, do they alt-tab to the terminal, or arrange the window in such a way that it's tiled?
<TheMoonMaster>
Alt-tab.
<pellis>
okies
<pellis>
ok i'm recording. be quiet guys.
* rickhull
types furiously on a buckling spring keyboard
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<andrewvos>
Anyone know of an interface that supports #puts, and #print but allows me to have faster access to all the lines of text?
<rickhull>
?
<andrewvos>
Like a structure that has those methods, but stores all the lines of text in an array
<rickhull>
i could gist one up in 60 seconds...
<andrewvos>
I don't want to have to string_io.rewind.read.lines.each every time
<andrewvos>
rickhull: Any ideas how? I can write it myself but just at a loss at how I would support all the weird things print/puts does
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* andrewvos
notes the passing of 60 seconds
<andrewvos>
(just joking of course)
<rickhull>
a rhetorical 60 seconds
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<rickhull>
i wasn't thinking about any weird things that puts/print do
<rickhull>
i was just going to dump the string passed in to storage
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<andrewvos>
I suppose I could store a StringIO internally, and then delegate #puts/#print to it. And on each call I could empty the StringIO and take the new lines and throw them into an array.
<andrewvos>
Does this sound like madness?
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<rickhull>
is this unit testing code?
<rickhull>
or lib/prod code?
<andrewvos>
There are no unit tests here. This is me playing around because I'm bored.
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* rickhull
upsets table
<rickhull>
:P
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<andrewvos>
Yeah yeah yeah, I test all my production code. I don't test things when I'm hacking though. Sue me :)
<andrewvos>
Though maybe tests would help me with this class
<rickhull>
also, is there a way to specify STDOUT vs. STDERR?
<blowmage>
andrewvos: you are using an older version of minitest, make sure you have 5.0+ installed and activated
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<blowmage>
andrewvos: be sure you have `gem "minitest"; require "minitest"` in your test or helper
<blowmage>
Minitest::Test (5.0) is the new name for MiniTest::Unit::TestCase (4.x and below)
<andrewvos>
Why has it changed?
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<rickhull>
smaller, simpler vocabulary, i imagine
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<andrewvos>
blowmage: Thanks, that worked.
<rickhull>
oh hm, it looks like maybe rgx is supported by assert_output now. i don't think it was the last time i looked
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<zenspider>
rickhull: use captureio instead, gsub the pids, use assert_match / must_match instead
<andrewvos>
How do I [1,2,3].something([4,5]) #=> [1,2,3,4,5] again?
<zenspider>
concat
<andrewvos>
Ahh yes thanks segy
<andrewvos>
Erm zenspider
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<andrewvos>
zenspider: Hey why is it Minitest and not MiniTest and Test and not TestCase?
<andrewvos>
zenspider: Is it because minitest is now in stdlib?
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<andrewvos>
(or whatever you call it when gems get into ruby)
<zenspider>
andrewvos: because that's what I changed it to
<rickhull>
zenspider: thanks, will do. was my approach flawed, or just not supported (yet)?
<zenspider>
rickhull: not flawed... just not the usecase of must_output. pids and shit need munging
<rickhull>
gotcha
<andrewvos>
zenspider: Is there a particular reason you did that?
<zenspider>
you can look at how I test minitest itself to see how I munge test times and the like
<zenspider>
andrewvos: cleaner
<zenspider>
also, pinkies
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<blowmage>
andrewvos: the old api is still supported, and i have minitest-test if you want to use the new api in older minitest
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<rickhull>
andrewvos: FWIW, i like the change. even if change itself is unpleasant
<andrewvos>
zenspider, blowmage: That makes sense
<andrewvos>
rickhull: Yeah it is nice
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<zenspider>
rickhull: unpleasant how? it took me about 10minutes to switch all of my projects over. it's just a name change and it even works w/o it (just warns)
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<zenspider>
are you seeing sometihng else?
<rickhull>
no, not at all. i'm saying i like this change specifically. but any change in general is unpleasant
<rickhull>
presumably worth it, in the general case
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<rickhull>
(a lot of words to say something rather trivial)
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<zenspider>
ANY change is unpleasant? man... you must hate life in general.
<rickhull>
ha
<rickhull>
i'm sympathizing with andrewvos
<rickhull>
empathizing, even
<andrewvos>
Cucumber breaks when I add minitest to my gemspec. *facepalms self to death*
<rickhull>
(sp?)
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<zenspider>
andrew just typed it wrong. that was his fault :P
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<rickhull>
zenspider: but to continue the thought, most changes are worth it, despite the inherent unpleasantness
<zenspider>
andrewvos: what type of break? I don't know how they integrate, but those interfaces changed a lot so I don't know if they've caught up yet
<rickhull>
standing up instead of sitting down… ~effort~
<zenspider>
andrewvos: blowmage wrote a gem to make the mt5 namespace available for mt4 impl. that way you can write for mt5 but run on mt4
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<andrewvos>
zenspider: Cucumber tries to be clever I guess and be all like "hey you're using minitest, I'll do some shit for you!! yaYY!!!111"
<andrewvos>
Because apparently I'm not ready to require files myself
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<rickhull>
Cucumber == Clippy
<andrewvos>
hahaha
<andrewvos>
It looks like you're trying to write tests. Would you like help with that?
<andrewvos>
*DEFINES ALL THE DSLS*
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<zenspider>
andrewvos: suck. I'm sorry.
<zenspider>
blowmage's gem might be the right thing for you until they switch up
<rickhull>
zenspider: what do you think of Open3.capture3? it's funny, that's the functionality im trying to test
<rickhull>
so using minitest capture_io to test it :P
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<rickhull>
not literally testing open3, but testing lib functionality that calls it
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<zenspider>
rickhull: why are you trying to test that?
<rickhull>
BDD i guess
<rickhull>
the tests make sense from the outside
<zenspider>
then test that you call it correctly
<rickhull>
i have a method, run_command
<zenspider>
don't test that it does the thing correctly
<rickhull>
it returns STDOUT, logs STDERR, raise on exit status
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<rickhull>
so i have a BDD test, a command that has stderr must output
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<andrewvos>
BDD is good for testing apps are still delivering their intended features. Though I would like it if everyone used something instead of cucumber.
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<rickhull>
honestly i'm not even doing BDD. i just like reading spec-style tests better. and yeah, cucumber should not be the first thing to reach for
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<rickhull>
i don't think i've ever done test first development. typically i'll make a prototype, write some tests, then refactor
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<zenspider>
rickhull: sad... tdd is lovely
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<rickhull>
i find the influence of the order in which tests are written on the resulting design to be… unsatisfying
<rickhull>
i get paralyzed trying to write the right tests
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<zenspider>
i find the influence of the order in which implementation is written on the resulting tests to be unsatisfying. :P
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<zenspider>
nah. you do it JUST like you write your prototype... you just use the commandline/browser a lot less
<zenspider>
man... I can't focus AT ALL
<zenspider>
maybe I should take a nap
<rickhull>
it seems to me you have to have the design in your head already to write good tests, first
<rickhull>
at the right level of abstraction
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<rickhull>
if you write a shitty test, then you spin your gears a bunch trying to make it pass
<rickhull>
so then i spin my gears a bunch trying to make sure i don't write a shitty test
<rickhull>
and then paralysis
<zenspider>
if you can write a prototype, you can write a test
<zenspider>
sec... need to tweet that
<rickhull>
for example, i wasn't sure how i wanted to implement run_command. i looked at what are the facilities available to call out to an external process. and i knew i ultimately just wanted STDOUT. and i wanted failures to be handled out-of-band. raise/log
<rickhull>
i discovered capture3, and the implementation fell out of that
<rickhull>
those last two bits, the impl and what are the cases i had to deal with, sort of happened simultaneously
<rickhull>
though in retrospect i could have written some tests first i guess
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<andrewvos>
Love how me asking a question always turns into some completely different argument.
<andrewvos>
"Hey guys, how do I do A?"..."Have you tried writing tests?"
<rickhull>
funny, that was not my implication
<zenspider>
that's my goto response :)
<rickhull>
i was just curious if you were mocking IO objects in test code or lib/app code
<erikh>
I like "have you read the documentation?"
<erikh>
but I'm a test-last kind of guy
<rickhull>
because that would change my answer to "is this insane?"
<andrewvos>
rickhull: Heh, I'm not taking a dig :)
<zenspider>
I did that to my students and newbs at seattlerb. "I'm trying to X"... "where's your test?" "uhhh"
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<zenspider>
90% of the time, the ppl w/ tests wind up needing less help over time.
<andrewvos>
This is true.
<zenspider>
(w/ tests or who follow my suggestion to backfill tests NOW)
<andrewvos>
It especially helps you to keep on target
<zenspider>
yup. which is exactly what I'm failing to do right now :)
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<andrewvos>
Sometimes you get so stuck in the code and you're like "what am I actually doing again???". Then you run your tests and it's obvious.
<rickhull>
zenspider: i may have found a bug, or at least an edge case, for capture_io
<rickhull>
my run_command is generating output on STDOUT that is not captured
<rickhull>
a naked puts above it is captured
<zenspider>
capture_subprocess_io
<rickhull>
ah right
<zenspider>
subprocesses are a pita
<zenspider>
that said... again... don't test that.
<zenspider>
test that you call capture3 correctly. nothing more
<rickhull>
i'm not clear how that looks
<zenspider>
I prefer stubs. most ppl use mocks.
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<erikh>
I always make a solid attempt to write tests, but I like doing the design before the tests.
<erikh>
and I avoid mocks like the plague, but I have some weird requirements for my projects these days
<rickhull>
y, i never reach for mocks or stubs. probably to my detriment
<andrewvos>
Make a class, name it Capture3Mock or Fake or whatever, have a method on it that is the same as the method you want to call. When you call it, store the arguments if you need to. Then make another method like #did_i_call_it_properly?
<erikh>
launching vms is kind of a pissy process that breaks easily
<erikh>
half of running tests is seeing the edge cases / breakage