<rickhull>
everything L20 and below is just stubs, not truth
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<rickhull>
i think this can be fleshed out another 50% more and used as a reference
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<rickhull>
it is confusing as hell, and i wanted to get a comprehensive picture, and i thought i had a handle on it
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<rickhull>
zzak: note, I am not expecting require to consider my CWD
<rickhull>
just relative to $LOAD_PATH entries
<rickhull>
of course things are different if . is in $LOAD_PATH, but not considering that case
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<rickhull>
anyway, i'd be happy to open a ticket if you think that's best. got a pointer or link?
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<Wardrop>
Quick question. Do you guys put full-stops at the end of your exception messages?
<rickhull>
depends on the context. if it's for end users and your message is a sentence, i'd be tempted to capitalize and punctuate
<Wardrop>
rickhull: Agreed. If I ever send exception messages to users, I always check for a trailing period and add one if none exists.
<Wardrop>
By always, I mean I try to always
<rickhull>
i wouldn't worry too much about it, honestly. and i definitely wouldn't have code to inject missing chars
<rickhull>
that's just one more thing to fail, and one more thing that's not greppable
<rickhull>
i would do your best to make sensible messages in the code. and then when you have nothing better to do, or you have a new hard requirement for certain messages, go fix them in the code
<rickhull>
i.e. it's not a problem until it is. then you can make a comprehensive fix, and you'll have a better guideline for future messages
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<yorickpeterse>
morning
<judofyr>
morning yorickpeterse
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<whitequark>
moo
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<yorickpeterse>
bah, somewhere in this app some code fucks up Rails' nested attribute system
<yorickpeterse>
because it works fine standalone, including when I use barebones versions of the various models used
<yorickpeterse>
ugh
* yorickpeterse
gets a rubber glove
<yorickpeterse>
interesting enough: it appears to work in a Rails console but not when running my tests (e.g. when I start Pry in a test)
<yorickpeterse>
which makes zero sense
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<yorickpeterse>
Hm fantastic. It appears that when I run my stuff with RAILS_ENV=test it borks the nested attributes
<yorickpeterse>
but there's no configuration setting that would indicate this
<judofyr>
fuck_with yorickpeterse if Rails.env.test?
<yorickpeterse>
pretty much
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<__carlos>
lol
<__carlos>
it would be an awesome method
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<yorickpeterse>
man at least I have pry, otherwise this would be very much like trying to find a needle in a haystack that's driving on a highway at 200km/h
<__carlos>
yorickpeterse: pry is the best software I've encountered in a long time… no kidding
<__carlos>
I love it
<yorickpeterse>
I'm well aware of it being awesome
<yorickpeterse>
I even have a t-shirt...that I hardly wear
<__carlos>
yorickpeterse: I need a tshirt.. I need it.. I'll make one myself "I <3 PRY"… most people won't get it, but those who do will become my bff instantly
<blanoz>
Hello! Anyone around feeling in need to demoralize a non-programmer who wants to learn programming? :)
<judofyr>
hey blanoz
<judofyr>
what's up?
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<yorickpeterse>
tl;dr of my issue: Rails is fucking terrible at dealing with nested attributes and relations using :through
<blanoz>
Hi. I'm a totally noob in this field but I'm facing almost everyday the need of learning a programming language. I've read a little PHP and a little of Ruby (not ROR) but I still cannot decide with what should i actually start. Some fellow programmers pointed out at Python, for its code readability, but those damn brackets kill me
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<GarethAdams>
blanoz: well you're in the right channel for some totally impartial advice!
<GarethAdams>
oh no, wait
<blanoz>
(i'm not a native english speaker, please bear with me through the typos/misspelling)
<judofyr>
blanoz: (where are you from?)
<yorickpeterse>
Relation would be: company groups (through) -> group memberships -> company. Pass an :id and it expects a group membership, pass it anything else and it will create a new company
<yorickpeterse>
uuggghhh
<yorickpeterse>
"Fuck you over convention" I suppose
<GarethAdams>
blanoz: my advice: try something; see if you like it; try something else; compare. Repeat
<judofyr>
blanoz: I learnt PHP originally and then switched to Ruby. PHP is one big bag of "what the fuck", but at least it gets you started quickly
<yorickpeterse>
PHP is fucking shit
<yorickpeterse>
stay away from it
<__carlos>
blanoz: PHP is easy but horrible… Python I can't say anything about… Ruby is awesome, hands down
<Mon_Ouie>
To be fair, no matter where you ask, people are unlikely to answer partially. The only difference is, on a language-specific channel, they're more likely to say the same thing :p
<yorickpeterse>
It's like trying to learn how to ride a bike, except the bike has spikes everywhere, comes with 3 wheels (of which one is missing a tire) and doesn't have any lights.
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<Mon_Ouie>
impartially*
<yorickpeterse>
It also randomly breaks for no apparent reason
<yorickpeterse>
It's also vastly different from all the other bikes
<__carlos>
and doesn't properly log shit
<judofyr>
blanoz: it also depends on what type of programming you want to do. web programming? small command line tools? importing data and analyzing?
<__carlos>
typical php error log: "No such file or directory in Unknown on line 0"
<judofyr>
blanoz: I wouldn't pick PHP for anything else than web programming. and even then I'm not sure it's a good idea…
<manveru>
sometimes the tire goes flat and it spontaneously combusts
<blanoz>
I came here because i feld attracted to the Ruby language the most, but I find it sometimes difficult (especially if looking into ROR). So i'm thinking that I should start with something easy (lets say Python) and after some basic programming principles have been well established, i could move to Ruby, since this is my ultimte goal (of learning Ruby/ROR). The fact that Ruby incorporates so many other programming languages it makes
<blanoz>
start with something else
<blanoz>
Romania, that is.
<judofyr>
blanoz: Python is fine and sensible. Ruby is fine and sensible. heck, even Perl is fine and sensible (if you ignore the bad parts).
<__carlos>
blanoz: why not start with some real training in a typed system?
<blanoz>
__carlos: hmmm, good point.
<__carlos>
I find it better to learn proper programming when you know about types
<manveru>
blanoz: take a look at go then
<yorickpeterse>
blanoz: don't start with ROR
<__carlos>
GO is fine but I don't know about community support… it's rather "new"… why not Java or something? it's not the best thing out there but Eclipse + JAva is easy as shit
<yorickpeterse>
start with plain Ruby, take small baby steps
<__carlos>
and you get to learn types
<blanoz>
judofyr: the programming language i will (hopefully) learn, will be used for WWW mainly
<manveru>
__carlos: go and st2 is a blast
<__carlos>
I must admit I haven't used GO that much… I hear it's nice… perhaps today I'll do a hello world or something
<manveru>
given, it's not generating 90% of the code for you, but unlike java you don't have to :P
<blanoz>
Guys, i'm asking if i should start directly with Ruby (and later ROR or other framework) or with something else - please take into consideration that i have no programming background.
<__carlos>
Java gets a lot of shit, but it's widely used… if you use Eclipse and don't' get too happy with Objects (like creating 50 classes instead of using HashMap), then it's not bad
<blanoz>
(since Ruby incorporates so many programming languages - hence my question)
<__carlos>
Ruby incorporates ideas from other languages, it doesn't implicitly incorporate other languages
<blanoz>
i see
<__carlos>
but then again you could say the same for a lot of other languages
<manveru>
i learned php before ruby... didn't really help me much
<blanoz>
that is what i was afraid, manveru
<__carlos>
if you learn php before Ruby, you have to "unlearn" a lot of shit afterwards hah
<yorickpeterse>
repeat after me:
<yorickpeterse>
Don't learn PHP
<GarethAdams>
^^
<yorickpeterse>
unless you enjoy sadism
<blanoz>
yorickpeterse: lol
<judofyr>
blanoz: if you want to learn programming I'd recommend trying a few and see if anyone "clicks". Ruby, Python, Perl, JavaScript, Go, Java, C# are all fine languages; you need one which you *want* to program in.
<__carlos>
Ruby is a good language to learn first… I think so at least… but you won't know a lot of the basics (like how object allocation works and what it means to have different types, and what it means to instantiate, and what primitive types are)
<__carlos>
whatever, if you're doing web programming you don't REALLY need to know all that
<blanoz>
judofyr: if i'd say that i'm forced to work on Windowza, i believe that my possiblities will greatly narrow
<GarethAdams>
you're not forced to, Windows can run virtual machines ;)
<manveru>
are there languages that don't work on windows?
<blanoz>
GarethAdams: that's why i love the Ruby community. Thank you for this idea.
<blanoz>
manveru: i believe not, but i find cygwin difficult (along other non-"native" tools)
<manveru>
yeah, colinux is way nicer
<blanoz>
Will go for the virtual machine.
<yorickpeterse>
HA HA HA! ESTOY USANDO EL RUBY ON FUCKYOU
<yorickpeterse>
Translation: fixed my shiot
<yorickpeterse>
* shit
<blanoz>
manveru, GarethAdams, __carlos, judofyr, yorickpeterse: thanks for your answers! :)
<judofyr>
blanoz: cheers!
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<manveru>
should've told him to learn scheme first :P
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<yorickpeterse>
get out
<judofyr>
have you read your SICP today?
<manveru>
not yet, no
<manveru>
just a bit of the little schemer
<manveru>
been a while since i last worked through SICP :(
<judofyr>
little schemer is nice
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<manveru>
i really enjoy their style
<manveru>
a whole book of questions for you to answer :)
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<mbj>
whitequark: Hola!
<mbj>
whitequark: I'd like to request you add the channel #rom-rb to your irclogger, we renamed datamapper2 to rom (ruby-object-mapper)
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<mbj>
whitequark: unparser became somewhat usable, but still not beta, nor even alpha quality. Porting mutant already to get a feeling ;)
<mbj>
whitequark: unparser was many times more easy than to_source ;)
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<whitequark>
mbj: sec, will add
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<mbj>
whitequark: Thx!
<mbj>
whitequark: I'll ping you once unparser works correct with mutant
<mbj>
whitequark: Can you also add the now legacy #datamapper channel? There is some support activity and your irclogger performs much better than irclogger.com
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<mbj>
whitequark: Big thx!
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<yorickpeterse>
then you just concat that together
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<eponymi>
if my Gemfile specifies dependency groups, should my Rakefile be namespaced accordingly? e.g. if in Gemfile I have default group + testing group, should I also have a testing namespace in Rakefile?
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<KINGSABRI>
hello guys
<KINGSABRI>
When I have to use class method not instance method?
<erikh>
do you know the difference between a class and an instance of a class?
<erikh>
class methods act on the class itself
<erikh>
if you don't know the above, I would strongly recommend a tutorial on ruby, and OOP.
<erikh>
corundum: learn to program?
<corundum>
A good Ruby tutorial for newbies to programming: http://pine.fm/LearnToProgram/. NOTE: For linux installation section (in Chapter 0), the filename presented is just a example.
<bradland>
i've looked at the encoding methods provided since Ruby 1.9, but the only option appears to be replacing non-ASCII characters with a substitution, rather than trying to make a good guess.
<bradland>
...which Iconv is really good at (making a good guess).
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<bradland>
Any leads on libraries that does something similar? That is, transliterates to ASCII while making guesses at non-ASCII characters (special quotes, accented characters, etc).
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<injekt>
#ruby-lang Cannot change nickname while banned on channel
<injekt>
that crap is silly
<mistym>
It is!
<apeiros>
irc is silly
<yorickpeterse>
your face is silly
<apeiros>
how did you know?!?
<yorickpeterse>
the internet
* apeiros
gets a new face
<workmad3>
apeiros: don't look around... the tree outside your window is shaking suspiciously...
<injekt>
fapfapfap
<apeiros>
OO
<apeiros>
/o\
<yorickpeterse>
also, if one wants to buy a pink sombrero (and Amazon doesn't have it), where should one look?
<injekt>
ebay?
<bradland>
looks like Stringex adds String#to_ascii
<apeiros>
buy an ordinary colored sombrero and pink paint
<injekt>
^
<yorickpeterse>
apeiros: effort
<bradland>
apeiros wins
<apeiros>
fun
<yorickpeterse>
injekt: that's actually not a terrible idea
<apeiros>
paint can be spray paint
<injekt>
agreed
<workmad3>
yorickpeterse: if you can't buy it on amazon, it doesn't exist
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<yorickpeterse>
bunch of them including "markov" in the name
<yorickpeterse>
markov, marky_markov, etc
<yorickpeterse>
all pretty outdated though by the looks of it
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<erikh>
haha
<erikh>
"marky_markov"
<erikh>
and the curry bunch
<injekt>
:D
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<andrewvos>
markov_my_words
<andrewvos>
markov_of_the_beast
<andrewvos>
markov_and_spencer
<andrewvos>
markov_zuckerberg
<andrewvos>
markov_polo
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<GarethAdams>
/ignore andrewvos
<andrewvos>
hahaha ok I'll just grab my coat now
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<GarethAdams>
^^ look, you've upset him
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<andrewvos>
that was you
<andrewvos>
You're talking to yourself
<GarethAdams>
I meant you upset vlad_starkov, who just left
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<andrewvos>
Oh I disabled seeing that shit years ago
<GarethAdams>
he joined about 15 seconds before your first markov_my_words
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<andrewvos>
He probably thought "that's enough IRC for this year"
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<erikh>
on_your_markov
<yorickpeterse>
so apparently this bot I'm running has 5789 URLs stored. notbad
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<erikh>
markoved_for_death
<yorickpeterse>
though it only goes back about a year, which is a shame
<erikh>
markov_polo
<yorickpeterse>
erikh: hey you want some random data for that loudbot thing?
<erikh>
yorickpeterse: I gave you the irc network
<erikh>
you can add as much as you want there
<andrewvos>
markov_getset_go
<yorickpeterse>
erikh: you didn't
<erikh>
I did
<yorickpeterse>
you gave me some read only web API
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<zenspider>
anyone here know google charts pretty well? I just need a "simple" tweak
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<rue>
I’ve found there’s no such thing with GC
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<zenspider>
yeah
<zenspider>
I just want to draw a line or color part of my data to signify a particular range
<zenspider>
go figure
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<rue>
At some point I just went with D3 instead.
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<zenspider>
rue: throw me some code to crib and I'll happily switch. I just want a visualization of my workout. 2 y-axis line + bar
<zenspider>
I'm not married to this thing... I only went with it because I already had something that mostly worked :)
<rue>
Hm, should do something like that :) Finally started strength training, would be useful
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<bcardarella>
Inside of an instance method defined within a describe block of minitest/spec is there a way to get the desc of the greatest parent? (assuming there is nested describes)
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<bcardarella>
jOn the class level I can get it with MiniTest::Spec.describe_stack
<bcardarella>
but that data seems to be gone in the instance
<bcardarella>
blowmage: I would like the constant we are passing to the top-most describe
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<bcardarella>
I can kind of get that by parsing the name of the current describe's name but the names are separated by :: and there is no guarantee that I would be splitting on the right spot
<zenspider>
rue: it has helped a lot. having the visualization has shown me where I should tweak more than anything
<zenspider>
bcardarella: what are you actually trying to do?
<blowmage>
bcardarella: i don't know what you are trying to accomplish, but check these two approaches out
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<zenspider>
"Highcharts needs only two JS files to run: The highcharts.js core and either the jQuery, MooTools or Prototype framework. One of these frameworks is most likely already in use in your web page." ... no, actually... they're not
<bradland>
hahaha, well, you could always spend a few days figuring out D3 :\
<bradland>
D3 is awesome, but man, it's like driving tacks with a sledgehammer to do stuff like this
<bradland>
you should just shell out to gnuplot and call it a day
<bradland>
you don't need the pie chart, obviously
<zenspider>
also... doesn't seem to work. hrm
<andrewvos>
Oh, you mean for what it's doing. Right.
<bradland>
the jsfiddle doesn't work?
<bradland>
i just ran it and it rendered the chart
<zenspider>
frontpage.js doesn't work when I change the name in the first renderTo
<bradland>
oh, that thing is full of cruft
<bradland>
check the jsfiddle i posted
<bradland>
i ripped a bunch of garbage out
<bradland>
103 lines
<bradland>
and there are a pile of line breaks in here that are just for readability
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<bradland>
zenspider: sans sunshine, it's down to 75, and there's still a lot you don't need if all you want to do is render with defaults. this has tooltips and stuff. http://jsfiddle.net/pzTHe/2/
<zenspider>
ok. sweet. that has me up and running.
<zenspider>
headius: I get a lot of conflict between the stdlib version and the gem
<zenspider>
I really really really dislike the way stdlib ships these days
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<zenspider>
dunno if you address that
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<headius>
hmmm
<headius>
well we are trying to start leveraging the default gems stuff in JRuby, but the way MRI does it is kinda broken
<headius>
I just submitted a PR to rubygems to add a --default flag to install that does it better
<zenspider>
there's no "kinda" about the broken
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<headius>
what breakage do you know about? the only one I know is that it doesn't properly load the gem for top-level files like json.rb (I think)
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<headius>
subsequent requires for json/* will trigger gem, but not json.rb I think, because of the way rbinstall builds up its file list
<headius>
I ran into this trying to set up krypt as default gems for us, because several of its files load from the root of load path rather than a subdir
<headius>
my PR uses the actual file list from the gem for triggering gem loads
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<zenspider>
let's see... there's that. there's the fact that they've got BS gemspecs installed but they're not installed in the actual gem repo. there's the fact that they ship with a test-unit spec that says it is version '2', when it is, in fact, NOT the test-unit gem (not even distant cousins really). ... it goes on and on
<zenspider>
the middle one is the worst imo
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<zenspider>
really ... it should ship with gems
<zenspider>
period
<zenspider>
install them, come with them pre-installed... don't care.
<zenspider>
I have the 'ruby' gem name... so it is easy enough to have a meta gem that fixes the versions ... it could even do it with ~> and make it EASY to ship a single fix to stdlib w/o an entire release
* erikh
gasps
<bradland>
stdlib as gems. novel concept.
<headius>
my PR should fix all those
<headius>
well, the test/unit thing is just their problem
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<headius>
but my PR uses actual gemspecs from the gem
<zenspider>
test/unit (stdlib, not the gem) should die a painful death
<zenspider>
but I'll NEVER get them to switch
<zenspider>
actual gemspecs! ZOMG
<headius>
oh hmm, I just realized my PR does actually need to change the specs slightly
<headius>
specifically it needs to only look at requirable paths and remove prefix dirs like ext and lib
<headius>
oops
<headius>
so it won't be identical but it will work for purposes of default gems and keep all other data intact
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<zenspider>
why remove prefix dirs?
<headius>
hmmm
<headius>
well currently the default gem logic uses the list of files there as triggers to boot the gem
<headius>
if they're lib/mylibrary.rb instead of mylibrary.rb, it won't trigger mylibrary gem to boot
<headius>
so RG default logic would have to change, or my PR needs to scrub prefixes
<headius>
now that I think about it, probably the former would be best
<headius>
defaults logic should load stock gemspecs, build a list of requirable files from that
<zenspider>
I'll bow out of this one. I had a workout and I'm not tracking. my brain says something is wrong tho, but drbrain is best for that
<zenspider>
or evan
<headius>
well, you managed to give me a clue without trying, so kudos
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<bradland>
i have an idea for our product, but i'm not sure if it's a DSL, or implementing an actual language. i feel like it's a crazy idea though.
<headius>
anyway, my PR plus fixing RG should address your concerns (and mine)
<bradland>
yep, looking at the vid on confreaks right now
<bradland>
you speak of my problem here?
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<bradland>
heeeey, lookie here :)
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<zenspider>
bradland: hope that helps
<andrewvos>
zenspider: Who was the troll you spoke of?
<bradland>
zenspider: very apropos. funny how things like this work out. i've been wanting to do this for ages.
<bradland>
holy cow: "Uby, a very small subset of Ruby". it's like you wrote this just for me... gee thanks! haha
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<zenspider>
bradland: yay!
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<zenspider>
bradland: how the fuck do I get rid of the dots on a spline/line ?
<zenspider>
I've tried marker and symbol to no avail
<zenspider>
n/m. got it
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<andrewvos>
:(
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<zenspider>
bradland: "An array of arrays with two values. In this case, the first value is the x value and the second is the y value. If the first value is a string, it is applied as the name of the point, and the x value is incremented following the above rules."
<zenspider>
so I did an array with [["1/1", 42], ...]
<zenspider>
and the strings aren't acting as labels