apeiros changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 2.0.0-p195: http://ruby-lang.org (Ruby 1.9.3-p429) || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com
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<PaulePanter> Could somebody please try to reproduce https://github.com/whitequark/parser/issues/62 ?
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<erikh> whitequark: ^
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<whitequark> erikh: already replied there
<erikh> okie doke
<erikh> just wanted to make sure you saw it
<whitequark> sure, thanks
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<postmodern> manveru, finally released cinch-commands 0.1.0
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<erikh> postmodern: ooh, what's that?
<erikh> aha
<postmodern> erikh, plugin for cinch for defining multiple !commands with arguments and usage
<postmodern> erikh, wanted fancy !help output like for ChanServ
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<erikh> ah yes.
<erikh> I had a similar bot I wrote before I moved all my stuff to cinch
<erikh> i think it migth still be here: http://github.com/erikh/dbot
<erikh> not that it matters.
<erikh> tempted to do an irc thing in go now.
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<MouseTheLuckyDog> Is there a difference between :s and :"s" ?
<erikh> no
<erikh> MouseTheLuckyDog: the easy way to check this stuff is in irb
<erikh> :s.object_id
<erikh> :"s".object_id
<erikh> >> :s == :"s"
<erikh> oh, is eval down/
<erikh> bummber
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<MouseTheLuckyDog> Sigm I wish there were a method that returns all methods of a class that are not methods of Object.
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<bnagy> MouseTheLuckyDog: methods( false ) will cut out a lot of stuff, but it is not precisely that
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<PaulePanter> whitequark: I am so stupid. Thanks.
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<zzak> z_z
<erikh> c/;;\
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<manveru> postmodern: awesome, thanks :D
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<Newbie0086> continue reading the ruby book
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<yorickpeterse> morning nerds
<manveru> morning geeks
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<zzak> hi
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<zzak> こんばんは
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<charliesome> zzak: やあ
<yorickpeterse> weeaboos
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<charliesome> yorickpeterse: ^_^
<yorickpeterse> MOSHI MOSHI YORICK DESU IRASHIMAAAAA
<apeiros> wuss?
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<yorickpeterse> it more or less translates to something like "Yes this is me yorick [sort of a placeholder] come over here have a look"
<yorickpeterse> or w/e it was the Japanese yell when you walk into their store
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<manveru> irashaimase
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<manveru> you ever went to 109 in shibuya?
<yorickpeterse> Don't recall the specific name
<yorickpeterse> I did go to a starbucks there
<yorickpeterse> The big one overlooking the crossing
<yorickpeterse> Man, you walk into it and you're blasted by that greeting
<yorickpeterse> wait, was that Shibuya
<yorickpeterse> hold on, lemme check
<manveru> yeah
<manveru> shibuya has that awesome starbucks :)
<yorickpeterse> yeah shibuya
<manveru> a bit further is a tall tower with 109 on it, crazy shopping center where they shout as hard as they can to attract people
<yorickpeterse> zzak: if you haven't been there, go there
<zzak> i may go to ebisu tonight
<zzak> idk yet
<yorickpeterse> here hold on, lemme get a pictuar
<zzak> its right near shibuya
<yorickpeterse> which would be easier if I had fucking thumbnails
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<manveru> one stop away
<yorickpeterse> nailed it
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<zzak> yeah
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<charliesome> zzak: how's ruby kaigi
<zzak> charliesome: it was amazing, very fun!
<zzak> lots of very nice people
<charliesome> regretting not going
<charliesome> i reckon i'll have to go next year
<yorickpeterse> charliesome: are you going to chase the girls in Akiba too? :>
<manveru> in akiba... girls chase YOU :P
<charliesome> yorickpeterse: i dunno, is that a thing?
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<yorickpeterse> and buy the obligatory AKB48 swag
<manveru> maid cafe promoters at every corner
<zzak> im in akiba right now actually
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<zzak> right across akihabara station, in a cowork space
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<yorickpeterse> nice
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<zzak> there was no working in that hostel, and this place is cheap (1000 jpy/day)
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<yorickpeterse> haha yeah, the common room is pretty annoying to sit in
<yorickpeterse> No proper back rest and it gets really warm
<yorickpeterse> plus all the other folks going "OH WHATYOUDOING?"
<zzak> yeah i sorta get sick of tourists after a while lol
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<zzak> same 3 questions repeated
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<yorickpeterse> when I was there there happened to be quite a few other programmers as well
<mdedetrich> how would you go about dynamically creating a class in the current module
<yorickpeterse> so they'd instantly notice what I was doing the moment I popped open my laptop
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<manveru> mdedetrich: in what scope?
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<mdedetrich> manveru: ill make a gist
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<manveru> if you know the name already you can assign to a constant directly
<manveru> anw, the caller and callee are in different scopes... so this won't even know TestModule exists
<mdedetrich> manveru: yeah thats my issue
<mdedetrich> I want to create a class in the TestModule module
<mdedetrich> is this even possible?
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<mdedetrich> manveru: yeah I know that works, but I am trying to make a DSL hence why I am doing SomeClass.create_class(:TestClass)
<mdedetrich> is it possible to create a class with that method?
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<manveru> well, it's possible...
<manveru> let's see how crazy it will be :)
<mdedetrich> manveru: yeah I have been stuck on it for zonks
<mdedetrich> thanks for your help!
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<injekt> hai
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<manveru> mdedetrich: you'd need https://github.com/banister/binding_of_caller
<manveru> i don't think there's a way to do this without a c extension
<manveru> if you had a block, it would work
<mdedetrich> if you had a block, it would work <- explain further?
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<mdedetrich> manveru: in any case, damn thats a bummer
<manveru> hm, maybe not...
<mdedetrich> im pretty damn sure ruby can do this, and if not, it should do this
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<manveru> dunno
<manveru> this isn't tcl :P
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<manveru> ah, i think i got it
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<codeho> hey, does anyone have experience with activeadmin-axlsx by any chance?
<yorickpeterse> mdedetrich: sec
<manveru> mdedetrich: is that good enough?
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<manveru> you can make it more convoluted, but if you pass a block to your method you can hijack the calling scope
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<manveru> the c ext makes it possible without a block
<mdedetrich> manveru: so the condition is that you HAVE to have a block in the argument list?
<manveru> yes
<manveru> or you pass self
<manveru> SomeClass.stuff self, :TestClass
<mdedetrich> wahoo
<mdedetrich> it works
<mdedetrich> manveru: <3
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<mdedetrich> manveru: is there an exec method that can be used instead of eval (so its not a string but actual code?)
<manveru> sure
<manveru> you can do: b.eval("self")
<manveru> and then use whatever eval you want
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<manveru> all you really want is the self of the caller :)
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<mdedetrich> manveru:huh, I am kinda confused
<mdedetrich> manveru: all I want is eval that uses a block instead of a string
<manveru> yeah
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<manveru> but first you have to eval with a string :)
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<manveru> like this
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<mdedetrich> manveru: ah, thanks, sorry kinda new to ruby
<manveru> no problem
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<mdedetrich> manveru: just in terms of performance, will any code in that block actually be evaluated?
<manveru> if you pass the name that way, yeah
<manveru> if the name is an argument and you don't call the block, then no
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<mdedetrich> manveru: the DSL will have to use blocks regardless, so that block will actually be evaluated later on, don't want to evaluate it twice
<mdedetrich> hmm
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<mdedetrich> maybe I can do both in the one go
<mdedetrich> manveru: s = block.instance_eval{ binding }.eval('self') what does binding refer to in this?
<manveru> the binding inside the block
<manveru> which is the binding of the caller
<mdedetrich> ah
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<erikh> hello friends
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<mdedetrich> manveru: actually ur wrong
<mdedetrich> manveru: it doesn't execute the code in the block
<mdedetrich> manveru: I just tried, which makes it fine for my purpouses, thanks!
<Mon_Ouie> The binding inside the block literal on that line
<erikh> wouldn't block.binding work there?
<Mon_Ouie> Oh wait, it's Proc#binding here
<erikh> right
<yorickpeterse> man no wonder this office was super cold, all the radiators were turned off
<yorickpeterse> (first world problems)
<erikh> just turn on more computers.
<erikh> seems to work in this 80 degree weather
<erikh> err, 80F
<yorickpeterse> we all have laptops here so the warmth is very local
<yorickpeterse> also Fahrenheit is for scrubs
<mdedetrich> agreed
<erikh> let me know when you start taking our vast wealth
<erikh> we'll talk about who the scrubs are then
<yorickpeterse> You mean your vast debts? *runs*
<erikh> dunno, lots of europeans working here
<yorickpeterse> we should all use Kelvin anyway
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<erikh> one of the unfortunate problems with our country is that government and corporate wealth are vasty disparate
<yorickpeterse> 288.2K is so much better than 15C
<erikh> this keybaord makes me cry
<erikh> haha yes, bigger numbers for everybody
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<MouseTheLuckyDog> Is there a way of doing macros in Lisp.
<erikh> look at Object#send
<erikh> or instance_eval and module_eval
<erikh> if you're talking about the compile time / run time features of lisp macros, ruby doesn't really have that distinction, at least exposed to the user.
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<yorickpeterse> You don't really need macros in Ruby anyway
<yorickpeterse> it's not like it's actually going to speed things up
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<MouseTheLuckyDog> Ohh. Both seem to be quite close but not what I want. What I want is essentially "caller_eval".
<charliesome> MouseTheLuckyDog https://github.com/banister/binding_of_caller
<charliesome> don't use it though
<charliesome> it has its uses, but not in regular application code
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<MouseTheLuckyDog> charliesome, doesn't matter. I can't figure out hios example anyway.
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<yorickpeterse> So I have this ugly motherfucker: http://hastebin.com/poqepulote.rb (started out as a simple if/else) [...]
<yorickpeterse> Now I want to get rid of it, because fuck long if/else or case statements. However, I can't really think of anything that would *not* be a if/else in disguise
<yorickpeterse> (one that would be arguebly worse)
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<krskrft> that's not such a large if-else statement
<krskrft> i thought it would be much longer
<manveru> it's small, yeah :)
<yorickpeterse> I have to add at least another case to it
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<yorickpeterse> and quite possibly moar
<manveru> then do so?
<yorickpeterse> I want to break this out from a single controller as well but for now I'ms tuck with it
<yorickpeterse> * I'm stuck
<krskrft> then do it
<manveru> maybe polymorphism is what you want tho
<yorickpeterse> Yeah no, before you know it you end up with 15 if/else statements
<krskrft> seriously, you could add a ton more to it before it was "too long" in my view
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<yorickpeterse> manveru: well yeah, but I haven't really found something yet that I'm happy with
<manveru> then maybe you're solving the wrong problem :P
<__carlos> well you're just doing a "return" in each case anyway, so those elsif/else are unnecessary
<__carlos> return @lol if a
<__carlos> and then you could have like a trillion lines of those heh
<yorickpeterse> *facedesk*
<manveru> if you had a method like #scope on each, you could go [@company, @companies_group, Company].compact.first.scope
<yorickpeterse> hmmm
<manveru> but hey, that's really roundabout
<manveru> straightforward if until you really feel it's too big
<yorickpeterse> I have a better solution: tackle my CTO and tell him using one controller for differently scoped data is a terrible idea
<manveru> not "what if" :P
<manveru> that too
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<__carlos> yorickpeterse: I know that feel bro
<yorickpeterse> meh, at least it's easy here
<yorickpeterse> "This is bad, I have a better idea" "k go for it"
<manveru> but hey, i had CTOs that made 1200 lines controller methods
<manveru> so count yourself lucky :)
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<__carlos> manveru: that's called a "megamoth"
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<mdedetrich> I seem to have an issue passing a lambda into module_eval
<erikh> use &
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<erikh> a = lambda { "lol" }; Object.new.instance_eval(&a)
<erikh> should work just fine.
<mdedetrich> erikh:https://gist.github.com/mdedetrich/3175789d01447541820d
<mdedetrich> that doesn't work
<erikh> hmm
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<mdedetrich> yeah im confused as well
<mdedetrich> erikh: could this be a bug?
<erikh> I'm wondering if that's the case, yeah.
<erikh> hang on though.
<erikh> ohhhhhhh
<mdedetrich> ?
<mdedetrich> erikh: btw im running ruby-2.0.0-p0
<erikh> accept an argument in the lambda.
<erikh> or use proc.
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<mdedetrich> i dont have the latest ruby, gimme a sec
<erikh> this is 2.0
<erikh> it should be fine. it's not a bug.
<erikh> other than in the docs, maybe
<erikh> zzak: ^^
<erikh> so, what's happening here:
<erikh> 1) lambda validates arity
<mdedetrich> yup I know that
<erikh> 2) module/class_eval passes in the Module/Class object as the first argument
<mdedetrich> ah I see
<erikh> 3) lambda chokes because it has an arity of zero in your case
<mdedetrich> cool, thanks for help
<erikh> sure
<mdedetrich> proc it is
<erikh> :)
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<erikh> zzak: if you see this, the bug in the ri in -p195 is that the block definition in the docs prescribe module_eval { || block } and probably should be module_eval { |x| block } to be clear.
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<sandbags2> Am I misunderstanding something about the 'optparse' OptionParser class, when I specify an argument is mandatory I am expecting the #parse! method to print an error, usage, and exit if the mandatory parameter is not specified
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<postmodern> sandbags2, how are you defining the argument
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<erikh> it should do just that
<erikh> note that optparse works destructively on ARGV, might be an issue
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<yorickpeterse> slop > optparse
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<erikh> agreed, but optparse is in the stdlib
<erikh> makes it a little easier to sell to a team.
<erikh> (which is what I'm trying to do at work currently)
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<yorickpeterse> Tell them Slop comes with enterprise support and is maintained by the British Justin Bieber
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<boytoy> yorickpeterse: who's that, the alunageorge guy?
<yorickpeterse> that would be injekt, also known as inkjet
<sandbags2> sorry, called for lunch https://gist.github.com/anonymous/7aa591074d3e4367b731 is how I am setting up OptionParser
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<sandbags2> but lunch was really good anchovies, fresh bread, and fine red wine
<sandbags2> so, you know...
<judofyr> red wine for lunch?
<sandbags2> absolutely, mixed with a little water
<sandbags2> when in Italy...
<yorickpeterse> I was about to ask if you worked for the mob
<yorickpeterse> close enough :P
<sandbags2> yeah i would use Trollop but OptionParser is in the stdlib and i'd rather not introduce non-std deps for this script
<sandbags2> the option works, but ... no error if you don't supply it
<judofyr> OptionParser is surprisingly good though
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<yorickpeterse> from what I remember OptionParser doesn't do any form of error handling/missing option handling
<yorickpeterse> You'll have to do it yourself using something like `unless options[:required]; ....; end`
<sandbags2> ick
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<sandbags2> what is the point in having a MANDATORY syntax
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<sandbags2> and describing options as mandatory
<sandbags2> if you require the end user to actually handle the mandatoryness?
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<sandbags2> even #make_switch describes a mandatory argument style
<sandbags2> although that didn't seem to do anything either
<yorickpeterse> Probably mandatory as in "It's mandatory that you handle it yourself"
<yorickpeterse> Then again it is an option, which is, well, optional
<sandbags2> but it doesn't even print anything differently
<sandbags2> aye
<sandbags2> this is, presumably, why everyone says "What a fucking waste of bits, i will write something..."
<yorickpeterse> http://xkcd.com/927/ relevant
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<sandbags2> ahh crap that even requires me to keep the OptionParser around to print the damn summary
<sandbags2> OptionParser i hate you
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<sandbags2> where is the source of this fucking thing
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<sandbags2> hrmm... was actually trying to figure out rvm put it :)
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<sandbags2> oh well, sorted but.. bah
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<manveru> gem which optparse
<manveru> anw, MANDATORY means if you pass the option, it has to have an argument, or it will error out
<manveru> flags are usually not mandatory
<manveru> that's what arguments are for
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<sandbags2> manveru: are you telling me i specified it wrong?
<manveru> just that '--foo BAR' means that if you say '--foo', you also have to say ABR
<manveru> *BAR
<sandbags2> because AFAICS i am following the example for specifying a mandatory argument
<sandbags2> manveru: yes, my point is you don't specify BAR and... nothing happens
<judofyr> sandbags2: the point is that `my_command --bar` will cause an error
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<sandbags2> ahh
<sandbags2> i see
<judofyr> sandbags2: the option isn't mandatory, the parameter it takes is
<sandbags2> fair enough, thanks
<injekt> hay
<manveru> xi ~ % ruby -roptparse -e 'OptionParser.new{|o| o.on("--foo BAR") }.parse!' -- --foo
<manveru> -e:1:in `<main>': missing argument: --foo (OptionParser::MissingArgument)
<injekt> optparse all the thangs
<judofyr> am I the only one who doesn't mind optparse?
<yorickpeterse> Optparse on Rails
<injekt> judofyr: no, I don't mind it
<yorickpeterse> it's ok-ish
<injekt> I didn't build slop because optparse sucked, I actually like optparse, but there's some things I think slop is better at
<manveru> i like both, so yeah :)
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<manveru> i just have a thing for stdlib
<injekt> lets just use getoptlong guys
<judofyr> in other news: the HTML5 parser algorithm is quite … fascinating
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<manveru> guess why opera throws away presto :P
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<yorickpeterse> because nobody uses Opera
<matti> Ohai manveru
<yorickpeterse> These days everybody uses Chrome but complains they want to use Firefox again :>
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<sandbags2> i don't think i have *ever* complained that I want to use Firefox
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<apeiros> judofyr: no, I don't mind optparse either
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<apeiros> there's just a couple of use-cases where optparse doesn't cut it. but in like 95% of all my cases it's sufficient.
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<injekt> khaase_: ping
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<injekt> khaase_: nvm!
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<ldnunes> Hey guys, is rubygems.org working for you?
<yorickpeterse> No, seems to be down
<yorickpeterse> status.rubygems.org doesn't report anything though
<erikh> I use firefox
<erikh> I like not being tracked
<erikh> it's kind of cool
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<yorickpeterse> except for the part where almost no services use do not track
<injekt> I use too many Google products to care about being tracked
<yorickpeterse> (sadly)
<erikh> not talking about the sites I hit
<yorickpeterse> ldnunes: it's back
<erikh> you're storing all that shit with a known advertiser.
<erikh> injekt: yeah, I need to get off gmail
<erikh> for my personal stuff.
<erikh> injekt: work uses getoptlong
<ldnunes> yorickpeterse, oh, thanks!
<injekt> erikh: :D
<erikh> I've been... trying to ease them away from it.
<erikh> lots of hand rolled usage docs.
<injekt> heh, I used to use it a lot
<injekt> man some of these nokogiri issues are giving me headaches
<erikh> oh did you take over for that?
<injekt> yeah
<injekt> well, I joined
<yorickpeterse> I have an IRC bot for that
<erikh> everyone has an irc bot for that
<yorickpeterse> but sadly it runs under MRI and as such will block up until the timeout expired :P
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<yorickpeterse> * expires
<erikh> eh
<erikh> does Resolv run in a thread blocking region or something?
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<yorickpeterse> not sure
<erikh> did you.. try putting it in its own thread?
<yorickpeterse> I wonder if it even uses threads to begin with
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<erikh> heh
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<yorickpeterse> well plugins run in their own thread (Cinch), but it still seems to block
<injekt> just use a timeout
<yorickpeterse> injekt: HTTPClient takes care of that
<injekt> ah
<yorickpeterse> but it will still block until said timeout is reached
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<erikh> yyyyeah
<injekt> oh block all threads?
<erikh> it's not running in a thread, then
<injekt> wat
<erikh> 1.8?
<yorickpeterse> 1.9
<dominikh> can't be 1.8
<yorickpeterse> Mind you I just tested this by executing another bot command
<erikh> timeout should be threaded in 1.9
<yorickpeterse> Not by actually properly testing it
<erikh> 1.8 is not, IIRC.
<injekt> yeah cinch doesn't support 1.8
<yorickpeterse> erikh: I'm not sure if HTTPClient uses Timeout
<erikh> yorickpeterse: you're a gem which away from finding out
<yorickpeterse> pfffff, effort
<erikh> pfff, chest hair
<injekt> I'm sure dominikh will help you debug it
<erikh> haha
<injekt> he's a kind guy
<erikh> you are a dick.
<injekt> haha
<injekt> <3
<yorickpeterse> I need to run that stuff on Rbx anyway
<erikh> wat
<yorickpeterse> but I cbf setting up multiple Rubies on this box
<dominikh> erikh: he does that all the time
<injekt> what would that help?
<erikh> you must like core files
<yorickpeterse> injekt: actual threads
<injekt> dominikh: </3
<erikh> yorickpeterse: damnit
<dominikh> does Cinch even work in Rbx? :D
<erikh> you don't need rbx for concurrency
<yorickpeterse> dominikh: yes
<erikh> I hate this retarded perception
<yorickpeterse> at least my bot does
<injekt> dominikh: nice job
<erikh> you need it for parallelism
<dominikh> injekt: like a pro
<erikh> maybe there are like 2 programs in the wild that need it
<yorickpeterse> erikh: man why you gotta hate
<erikh> not hating, you just don't actually need it
<dominikh> parallelism > fork :P
<yorickpeterse> erikh: given one wants to run 2 things at the same time, good luck with that in MRI
<yorickpeterse> as in, actually at the same time
<injekt> yeah I use node for that
<erikh> what two things do you need to run at the same time
<erikh> injekt: lol
<dominikh> man, people used single-core CPUs for centuries and had no problem with concurrency :P
<yorickpeterse> erikh: my .down and .cat command clearly
<yorickpeterse> and .weather
<erikh> are you like, compressing tiffs in your bot or something
<erikh> or are you just doing i/o and don't understand how rb_thread_select works
<dominikh> just fix whatever causes that stuff to be non-preemtable
<erikh> I mean, you can ask evan and bford I'm sure
<erikh> rbx has a faster scheduler but that's about all you get over MRI here.
<erikh> and select is a lot more predictable, you can cheat a bit.
<erikh> I know evan knows MRI well enough to give you more detail than me
<dbussink> erikh: depends on what you run
<yorickpeterse> jeez, I figured my slight form of sarcasm would be obvious by the command examples
<erikh> dbussink: if it's blocking on i/o all the time, MRI is going to do just fine
<dbussink> but for example rails, you don't really squeeze out much from using thread safe on mri
<dbussink> erikh: true
<dbussink> erikh: but from benchmarking fairly straightforward rails apps for example, there's a not of non i/o stuff in there
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<dbussink> and with rbx that scales up a lot better with thread safe enabled
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<erikh> oh, i'm not arguing it doesn't for large numbers of threads, or significant CPU usage
<erikh> let's also put this in perspective -- this is an irc bot :P
<dbussink> erikh: hehe, didn't really know what the discussion was about :P
<dbussink> erikh: although this also helps even with i/o workloads: https://gist.github.com/dbussink/4cfb8a74ef310d9519bd
<dbussink> erikh: check the branch name :)
<erikh> oh, very nice
<yorickpeterse> I figured what I should do
<yorickpeterse> write it in Node.js with a Go frontend
<erikh> I'll be looking forward to that.
<erikh> yorickpeterse: Go gives me wood.
<erikh> that is all.
<yorickpeterse> running on top of a Haskell VM
<yorickpeterse> that's single threaded and multi process based
<yorickpeterse> with a thread scheduler that uses Math.random()
<erikh> injekt: dominikh: speaking of which, do either of you have any interest in working with me on a Go/mruby bridge?
<charliesome> yorickpeterse: then ragequit and rewrite it all in python, write up a big blog post blaming all the other tools
<dominikh> mruby? meh
<erikh> mruby is not a failure
<erikh> read the source
<dominikh> :D
<dominikh> maybe if you made Go embeddable in Ruby :P
<erikh> feh
<injekt> hah
<erikh> that direction isn't interesting to me.
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<yorickpeterse> charliesome: no, that would require me to use Erlang first
<yorickpeterse> and seeing how shit the Mixpanel API is them rewriting it for stupid reasons doesn't surprise me
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<injekt> rubygems is down because dnsimple is being tickled with a ddos attack
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<yorickpeterse> lawl, they too?
<dominikh> erikh: as usual, I am happy to review anything you write, but it's not something I'd invest time writing code in
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<judofyr> erikh: more interested in Rust bridge
<charliesome> judofyr: rust split stacks could mess with MRI a bit
<judofyr> dbussink: how concurrent is that concurrent GC? multiple markers? mark and code running at the same time?
<judofyr> charliesome: split stacks?
<charliesome> judofyr: yeah afaik rust uses split stacks
<dbussink> judofyr: concurrent gc is running gc while mutator (code) threads are running
<dbussink> judofyr: for gc, concurrent and parallel are actually well defined terms :P
<judofyr> dbussink: well yeah, but you never know if people use them correctly :)
<charliesome> little intro
<dbussink> judofyr: basically one marker running while code keeps running
<judofyr> charliesome: kthx
<judofyr> dbussink: do you pause for a second while grabbing the roots?
<dbussink> judofyr: yeah, two small stop the world pauses
<dbussink> one at the start, one at the end
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<judofyr> dbussink: how do you handle the case when an array/hash/string needs to be resized?
<dbussink> judofyr: how do you mean?
<dbussink> we already have write barriers in place that we use for our generational part
<dbussink> and they also now check for writing a non marked pointer into a scanned object
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<dbussink> (white pointer into black object in 3 color invariant speak)
<yorickpeterse> giggity
<dbussink> judofyr: basically because we removed the gil, operations like that are safe from the vm perspective
<dbussink> judofyr: they reason that array isn't thread safe is that for example it could overwrite the same slot when appending
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<dbussink> but that doesn't affect safety for the gc
<dbussink> the fact that rubinius has no gil is what made this effort pretty easy in the first place
<judofyr> dbussink: if you use realloc() to move an internal buffer, how do you ensure that the GC doesn't iterate the buffer after it's been realloced?
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<dbussink> judofyr: we don't do that
<dbussink> judofyr: string is backed with a static size bytearray
<dbussink> same for array with a static sized tuple
<dbussink> if we have to grow it, we allocate a new one and copy
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<dbussink> and assign it to the string
<dbussink> that assignment goes through the write barrier
<judofyr> ah
<dbussink> we never use realloc / malloc etc. for gc managed memory
<dbussink> so that's never a concern
<judofyr> dbussink: do you dealloc after the write barrier, or do you let the GC clean up the bytearrays?
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<dbussink> they are just like normal ruby objects
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<dbussink> so the gc takes care of that
<judofyr> interesting
<dbussink> same for example for inline caches etc.
<dbussink> all gc managed objects
<dbussink> so we can do thread safe swapping them easily
<dbussink> and if they go out of scope, the gc will clean them u
<dbussink> up
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<dbussink> judofyr: this is why stuff like this is also easy in rubinius: http://rubini.us/2013/05/21/more-ruby-transparency/
<judofyr> because that's one of the issues for adding concurrent GC to RGenCC in Ruby 2.1: sunny objects can use realloc()
<dbussink> judofyr: because inline caches are just objects at call sites
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<dbussink> judofyr: the bigger issue i think is non thread safe data structures inside mri i guess
<dbussink> what if you miss a pointer write like that
<judofyr> dbussink: hm?
<dbussink> we actually have to do an additional gc for example for Data_Wrap_Struct objects
<dbussink> because otherwise you break the no white pointers into black objects invariant
<judofyr> dbussink: the idea was that only sunny objects would be concurrently marked
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<dbussink> i mean an additional iteration for all stuff wrapped with data_wrap_struct
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<dbussink> judofyr: ah ok
<dbussink> judofyr: well, a lot flows out of the rbx internal design that this was actually easy to add
<judofyr> dbussink: yeah, it's the C extension API that's keeping MRI from advancing here :(
<dbussink> well, i also think it's probably some internal structures that you would have to lock around
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<dbussink> from this experience, i think there's only a fairly small difference between removing the gil and concurrent gc
<dbussink> they depend on quite a lot of the same things
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<dbussink> judofyr: it's just that i see parallels there basically
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<judofyr> dbussink: yeah, I see your point, although I think it's easier getting "Ruby thread" and "marker thread" in parallel than "Ruby thread" and "Ruby thread"
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<dbussink> judofyr: perhaps, but in rubinius we had the second and write barriers everywhere for generational gc, those two combined made the effort fairly small
<dbussink> judofyr: i just thing mri could be better at setting a path, maybe not break c-api stuff right away, but definitely announce stuff will be removed
<dbussink> so extension writers can update their stuff
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<judofyr> yeah
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<judofyr> dbussink: it's interesting times in MRI now IMO. Ruby 2.1 is shaping up nicely.
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<mdedetrich> how do you dynamically add singleton methods to a module?
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<mdedetrich> something like this
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<judofyr> mdedetrich: #define_singleton_method
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<apeiros> mdedetrich: that looks like you already know the answer…
<apeiros> so I don't get what you're asking for
<mdedetrich> define_singleton_method doesn't exist
<mdedetrich> for modules
<judofyr> oh
<mdedetrich> undefined method ‘define_singleton_method’ for Rawr:Module
<apeiros> then you're using an old ruby version
<apeiros> define_singleton_method is defined on Object
<judofyr> mdedetrich: yeah, it should be available everywhere in Ruby 1.9
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<mdedetrich> oh ffs
<mdedetrich> stupid textmate using wrong ruby
<apeiros> :D
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<havenwood> Ruby 1.8 is end-of-life after June 2013. You'd think Apple would bump the system version in 10.9.
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<mdedetrich> havenwood: youd think so, but no
<mdedetrich> this is apple
<mdedetrich> apeiros: yeah it works fine now
<mdedetrich> judofyr: works fine now
<judofyr> they were pretty quick on 1.8.7 though
<judofyr> (from 1.8.6)
<apeiros> their reasoning was compatibility. I find that a weak reason, though.
<havenwood> An OS X bump of openssl, readline, bash, zsh, etc would be much appreciated..
<yorickpeterse> Just get a real OS
<havenwood> I guess openssl is deprecated, so cc_crypto
<yorickpeterse> I heard Emacs is pretty decent
* yorickpeterse runs
<havenwood> yorickpeterse: ha
<yorickpeterse> but no. Either Apple will fork 1.8.7 or update to 1.9.3 some time in the next 5 years
<erikh> dominikh: thanks, just want to team up and do awesome things with somebody in go
<dominikh> erikh: sounds mostly like cgo/c work to me though
<apeiros> havenwood: osx uses editline (which is utter crap) instead of readline
<erikh> yep
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<erikh> but designing the API will be important, too.
<dominikh> which is SO not the definition of fun.
<erikh> fair enough
<erikh> wait -- cgo or the api?
<dominikh> cgo.
<erikh> I was gonna say, I can see you don't like APIs
<erikh> after using cinch that is
* erikh runs away
<havenwood> apeiros: oh right, so cc_crypto instead of openssl, editline instead of readline, they just have to be faaancy
<dominikh> :D
<dominikh> diaf
<erikh> hahah
<erikh> was totally waiting for it
<apeiros> afaik due to license issue
<apeiros> yorickpeterse: apple actually forked ruby like 5 years ago already
<apeiros> and based on 1.9
<apeiros> it's called macruby
<dominikh> and dead?
<yorickpeterse> apeiros: I know that, but I basically mean something like "Ruby 1.8 LTS"
<yorickpeterse> or as Apple will call it: iRuby
<yorickpeterse> "And look at it! It comes with a sleek metallic rim and only weights 800 grams!"
<yorickpeterse> Also comes with iRubyGems
<yorickpeterse> you can only install and remove Gems, no CLI options or anything
<dominikh> and only one source, the gem store
<yorickpeterse> it also comes with a social network nobody will use
<yorickpeterse> called "Gem"
* yorickpeterse can't think of a Ruby pun for Ping
<yorickpeterse> of course before you can install iRuby you'll need an iRuby developer account and the RubyCode developer tools
<yorickpeterse> available for only $299
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<yorickpeterse> fuck, iRubyCode
<yorickpeterse> ok I'm done
<dominikh> iCodeRuby :P
<yorickpeterse> heh
<yorickpeterse> in true spirit of all things Apple Ruby will from now on be treated as a person
<yorickpeterse> So not "I use the Ruby programming language" but "I use Ruby, he/she is pretty cool" (no sexual puns intended)
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<erikh> over $elsewhere, trying to help someone I know get ruby installed on ubuntu
<dominikh> run far, run fast
<judofyr> $elsewhere is a nice place
<erikh> judofyr: it is most of the time
<dominikh> mostly because $elsewhere != self
<judofyr> self is a nice place too IMO
<erikh> I feel kind of bad, because ubuntu packages are such shit he's seriously considering rewriting the thing in python because it'll be less work
<erikh> he should not have to do that.
<erikh> judofyr: have you seen omnibus-ruby, btw?
<judofyr> erikh: nope
<judofyr> erikh: or, yes
<erikh> next time postmodern's around, he should check that out too
<yorickpeterse> erikh: did you tell him to use something like a version manager instead?
<judofyr> erikh: the link was purple in my browser
<erikh> yorickpeterse: he's doing ops work
<yorickpeterse> aah
<erikh> he wants real system packages.
<yorickpeterse> yeah
<erikh> can't say I blame him.
<injekt> yeah fuck that
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<yorickpeterse> well, Ubuntu is terrible because of all the -dev packages
<erikh> yeah.
<erikh> and the system packages are shit builds.
<yorickpeterse> librubyderp5-dev
<injekt> can't you just do some kind of ruby-full hybrid piece of crap package nowadays?
<erikh> injekt: le 1.8
<injekt> and I was ready to be surprised
* yorickpeterse gets angry when he sees somebody use "le"
<injekt> wait is it possible to be ready to be surprised?
<yorickpeterse> e.g. Bootstrap devs
<havenwood> ruby1.9.1-full
<injekt> le omakase
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<havenwood> (actually 1.9.3, terribly named package)
<injekt> havenwood: and that's like 1.9.3 eh?
<injekt> haha yup
<erikh> havenwood: yeah, then get used to ruby<tab>1<tab>9<tab>
<erikh> etc
<erikh> injekt: abi
<erikh> 1.9.1 is the abi version. it makes sense, if surprising.
<ridders24> getting the error: ruby terminate called after throwing an instance of 'std::runtime_error' what(): Encryption not available on this event-machine Aborted (core dumped), when trying to run the following: https://github.com/intridea/tweetstream. Im running Ubuntu 13.04
<injekt> yeah
<judofyr> erikh: omnibus looks nice, but it overlaps a bit with Docker.
<havenwood> <3 ruby-install
<erikh> judofyr: ?!
<injekt> I keep hearing about docker
<injekt> what is this
<erikh> not even remotely the same.
<erikh> it's a way to isolate dependencies into a single package.
<erikh> injekt: I'll tell you later
<erikh> work time is now.
<erikh> it's worth looking into though.
<injekt> word
<injekt> I just bought a ticket for my commute tomorrow, man trains are expensive
<injekt> um
<injekt> man, trains are expensive*
<injekt> damn my comma usage
<yorickpeterse> ,,,,,,
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<injekt> some kind of csv
<judofyr> csi
<judofyr> comma separated injekt
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<erikh> man train
<yorickpeterse> No manual entry for train
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<erikh> it's like soul train, but with less women
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<yorickpeterse> "man train" sounds very...scary
<yorickpeterse> I imagine some train full of bears (not the animal ones)
<erikh> indeed
<erikh> have you seen that south park episode when they design the new ipad?
<erikh> that's all I can think of righ tnow
<kalleth> man hammersmith_and_city_line
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<yorickpeterse> erikh: I don't watch South park
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<PaulePanter> Regarding my (other) problem with Parser (<https://github.com/whitequark/parser/issues/62>) I changed the returns(?) to nil, but it still does not work for me.
<PaulePanter> Any ideas?
<injekt> I read that as train full of beards
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<yorickpeterse> injekt: neckbeards, maybe
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<yorickpeterse> bah fuck you Rails
<yorickpeterse> Couldn't find Company with ID=2 for CompanyGroup with ID=
<yorickpeterse> fucking nested form bullshit
<bougyman> ca/21
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<yorickpeterse> ?
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<injekt> yorickpeterse: wat
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<yorickpeterse> for whatever reason creating a new instance of Derp, which has many Wtfs doesn't work using something like Derp.new(:name => "lolrails", :wtfs_attributes => { "0" => {:id => 1}})
<yorickpeterse> Where `1` would point to a valid ID of a Wtf row
<yorickpeterse> in my case this would be this:
<yorickpeterse> CompanyGroup.new(:name => 'TEST', :companies_attributes => {'0' => {:id => @company.id}})
<yorickpeterse> and @company is saved just fine
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<yorickpeterse> of course the docs are all "SUP BRO, THIS SHIT JUST WORKS (TM)"
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<yorickpeterse> fuckit, home tiem
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<eydaimon> what's the word on rubygems.org being down?
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<eydaimon> nmm, seems server just doesn't respond to ping
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<injekt> eydaimon: dns
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<yorickpeterse> eydaimon: dnssimple is being pwned
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<plentz> somebody already had issues trying to recover your password @ https://bugs.ruby-lang.org?
<plentz> I receive my recover password mail, change the password but I can't login with the new one(already tried ~ 5 times, each time with simpler passwords)
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<Wardrop> Does anyone know of a gem that takes care of loading files for an app in an order-agnostic manner, like how Padrino loads libraries and models, where if any fail, it's retried. Make sense?
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<zenspider> ok. I'm feeling braindead and stupid... need help
<zenspider> how the fuck do I create a binary encoded regexp?
<zenspider> tried:
<zenspider> esc_re = /\\((?>[0-7]{1,3}|x[0-9a-fA-F]{1,2}|M-[^\\]|(C-|c)[^\\]|[^0-7xMCc]))/
<zenspider> ESC_RE = Regexp.new esc_re.source.force_encoding("BINARY")
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<__carlos> 1.9.3-head :008 > Regexp.new("hello", { :encoding => Encoding::BINARY })
<__carlos> you mean like that? :|
<zenspider> oh thank god
<__carlos> ah well no that doesn't work
<zenspider> you don't need {} btw
<zenspider> tease
<__carlos> sorry for false hopes :(
<__carlos> yeah the bastard tricked me
<__carlos> 1.9.3-head :009 > Regexp.new("hello", { :encoding => Encoding::BINARY }).encoding
<__carlos> => #<Encoding:US-ASCII>
<whitequark> //o?
<__carlos> let's see, now I'm curious
<whitequark> >> //o.encoding
<zenspider> whitequark: no, that creates US-ASCII
<whitequark> hmm
<zenspider> o is "once"... interpolation is only evaluated once and then cached
<rickhull> i thought US-ASCII was equivalent to BINARY?
<rickhull> but i am really bad with encodings
<zenspider> rickhull: no, US-ASCII is 7bit, not 8
<rickhull> oh ok
<zenspider> and //n is "none", but that's apparently US-ASCII?
<zenspider> wtf
<zenspider> fuck you ruby
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<__carlos> zenspider: I was watching Arrested Devlpment but this deserves my attention
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<__carlos> I tried it like this
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<__carlos> 1.9.3-head :010 > r = Regexp.new("chars".encode(Encoding::BINARY))
<__carlos> doesn't work either
<zenspider> yeah. tht's what I'm currently attempting
<zenspider> this is exactly why I haven't bothered switching to ruby 1.9 ... fuck this pain
<whitequark> encoding is a minor part of 1.9
<zenspider> 80/20
<zenspider> 80% of the pain comes from 20% of the change
<zenspider> by FAR, I've spent more time adding encoding fixes to my software when 1.9 came around
<zenspider> 2.0 is a step in the right direction... but it'll take a while
<zenspider> this problem above is just more BS pain
<whitequark> depends on your use case I guess... String API changes were far more problematic for me
<zenspider> why isn't there a force_encoding method on regexps?
<zenspider> whitequark: like?
<zenspider> ?a becoming a string bit me a lot
<zenspider> and not having chr/ord be properly inversed
<whitequark> zenspider: yeah, what I'm talking about
<Paradox> i know this isnt optimal
<Paradox> but if you write all your programs in utf-8
<zenspider> we should all go back to ruby 1.8 and make it faster :)
<whitequark> zenspider: but Unicode combining characters require this
<Paradox> then happy face
<zenspider> Paradox: no, that doesn't solve anything for me
<whitequark> zenspider: btw, I think I figured it out
<zenspider> oh?
<zenspider> this is what I have tenderlove for... but he's in japan
<whitequark> //n.encoding lies. it actually is a binary regexp
<zenspider> oh?
<whitequark> but lemme recheck
<zenspider> I don't believe you :P
<__carlos> /n.encoding is all lies
<whitequark> it checks that the string being matched has a 8-bit encoding
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<whitequark> the //n.encoding returns whatever's in the encoding field which is weirdly present in all MRI objects
<zenspider> I wish your rxr dealt with tabs+spaces properly
<zenspider> but even more I wish ruby-core would stop with that bullshit
<whitequark> zenspider: re tabs+spaces: tell me what to fix and I'll fix it.
<whitequark> not sure how exactly is it broken
<zenspider> oh... so //n is NOT the encoding field of the object... but of the regexp.
<zenspider> jesus
<__carlos> 1.9.3-head :018 > r = Regexp.new("chars".force_encoding("binary"), Regexp::FIXEDENCODING)
<__carlos> => /chars/
<__carlos> 1.9.3-head :019 > r.encoding
<__carlos> => #<Encoding:ASCII-8BIT>
<__carlos> oh yes
<whitequark> what the hell
<zenspider> I'm assuming 1275-1279 should be properly indented ... that's not necessarily the case... but ruby-core mixes tabs (8 space indent) and spaces for some bullshit reason
<zenspider> FIXEDENCODING?!?!
<zenspider> wtf
<__carlos> yeah, FIXEDENCODING… new one for me :|
<zenspider> __carlos: where the fuck did you find that?
<__carlos> them docs
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<__carlos> yeah yeah I use 1.9.3 and look at 2.0… I'm aaare
<__carlos> aware++
<__carlos> fuck this keyboard xD
<whitequark> I truly understand why all the rbx folks hate encoding with a passion
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<__carlos> lol
<__carlos> back to Arrested Development
<__carlos> <offtopic>that show is so funny, I'm glad it's back</offtopic>
<zenspider> __carlos: thanks
<zenspider> and I have to use binread. ugh
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<zenspider> argh. I hate to say this ... but I prefer python's approach to unicode
<zenspider> opt-in
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<whitequark> I think it's opt-out in P3?
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<rickhull> is it true that Kernel#require will never successfully require an file specified with '.' or '..'? it seems that way in my testing
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<rickhull> e.g. require '../test/helper.rb'
<rickhull> i know require_relative can accomplish something like that, but i am curious about require specifically
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<manveru> unless you have . in your $LOAD_PATH
<rickhull> ah
<rickhull> the way i imagined it to work was .. would be relative to each $LOAD_PATH item
<manveru> but yeah... no reason to use require anymore for this stuff
<rickhull> it seems weird though that require will go deeper into load paths
<rickhull> but won't go up from load paths
<manveru> it does go up
<rickhull> if /path/to/lib/foo is in $LOAD_PATH
<manveru> but the cwd isn't part of the load path default anymore
<rickhull> what can I pass to require to get /path/to/test/helper.rb ?
<zenspider> rickhull: no, it works fine: ruby19 -e 'require "./fuck.rb"'
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<rickhull> i was finding that require 'foo' works but require './foo' does not
<zenspider> rickhull: hoe sets up tests with -Ilib:test:.
<zenspider> so you can require "test/test_helper" or "test_helper"
<zenspider> "./foo.rb"
<rickhull> that's cool, i'm just trying to understand what Kernel#require does
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<zenspider> If the filename does not resolve to an absolute path, it will be searchedfor
<zenspider> in the directories listed in $LOAD_PATH ($:).
<__carlos> I know it seems kind of "noobish" but I always use File.expand_path(__FILE__)
<zenspider> cargo culting
<__carlos> then I just require files relative to the file I'm working on
<rickhull> you can use require_relative instead
<rickhull> here's my dissonance:
<zenspider> I find both require_relative and the __FILE__ cargo cult line to be a sign that the dev doesn't understand load paths at all
<rickhull> /path/to/lib/foo.rb
<rickhull> /path/to/lib/foo/bar.rb
<zenspider> and it is better to simply learn the fucking things because they'll always come back to haunt you
<__carlos> zenspider: I know, I guess I started doing that when I began and just kept it at it :|
<rickhull> if /path/to/lib is in the $LOAD_PATH
<rickhull> then i can require 'foo'; or require 'foo/bar'
<rickhull> i.e. it will look inside each $LOAD_PATH to find bar
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<rickhull> but it won't go up from each $LOAD_PATH
<zenspider> "up from"?
<rickhull> yeah, i can't require '../test/helper.rb'
<rickhull> if /path/to/test/helper.rb exists
<rickhull> it seems weird that i can specify paths relative to $LOAD_PATH
<zenspider> also not true
<zenspider> ruby19 -e 'require "../gauntlet.noindex/fuck.rb"'
<rickhull> but only deeper
<rickhull> hmmm, ok
<zenspider> yes... I'm working on a file called fuck.rb. really.
<rickhull> maybe i am seeing an bundler artifact then
<rickhull> i am using bundle exec ruby, so the $LOAD_PATH is set up
<__carlos> zenspider: seems too broad.. I just have files like "fix_fucking_users.rb" and "fucking_credits.rb"
<rickhull> per bundler
<zenspider> I use rake to test everything... and run nearly everything
<zenspider> and my rake setup deals with the load path for me
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<zenspider> but generally, -Ilib:test will get you by on nearly everything
<rickhull> hm, i might look at that
<rickhull> the project i am working on has already selected bundler, and bundle exec ruby is sort of the baseline
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<zenspider> __carlos: it is too broad... but I know that if "blah" is in the name I can delete it without looking and if "fuck" is in the name I should look before deleting
<zenspider> rickhull: that doesn't have jack shit to do with it
<__carlos> hah.. sounds like a good technique
<zenspider> holy FUCK I hate encodings
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<zenspider> file declares utf-8, but has the following:
<zenspider> x = "\xE2\x80\x99s Café"
<rickhull> zenspider: i have to imagine bundler is changing things, because my test fails where yours works; https://gist.github.com/rickhull/75f4a853c75e072aa21f
<zenspider> \x99 is not valid utf-8 codepoint
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<__carlos> zenspider: computers suck… encodings are this thing that we inherited from the beginning of computing.. it's like joining a company with a bunch of legacy code
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<zenspider> so I'm not sure what to do with this crap. I'm tempted to tell the author of the source to go fuck themselves
<zenspider> BUT... ruby19 -cw on the file? perfectly happy
<zenspider> because C doesn't give a fuck about encodings
<zenspider> rickhull: no. that's because "." isn't in your load_path and you're expecting it to be
<rickhull> i don't think so
<zenspider> if you did ./../test/helper.rb it would work
<rickhull> i'm expecting .. to be relative to ~/test/project/lib
<rickhull> require './../test/helper.rb' fails as well
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<__carlos> by "fail" you mean LoadError right?
<zenspider> works:
<rickhull> y
<zenspider> bundle exec ruby -e 'require "fuck.rb"'
<zenspider> bundle exec ruby -e 'require "../gauntlet.noindex/fuck.rb"'
<zenspider> bundle exec ruby -Ilib -e 'require "./../gauntlet.noindex/fuck.rb"'
<zenspider> doesn't work:
<zenspider> bundle exec ruby -Ilib -e 'require "../fuck.rb"'
<zenspider> and I don't see how/why it should
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<rickhull> require 'fuck.rb' — it lives in a dir in your $LOAD_PATH
<zenspider> require "test/helper" and ensure that "." is in your load path
<zenspider> or require "helper" and make sure that "test" is in your load path
<whitequark> or just use require_relative?
<zenspider> this really isn't hard and you're making it so
<rickhull> i'm not stuck on how to accomplish my goal
<rickhull> i'm stuck understanding why my require doesn't behave like yours
<zenspider> *shrug*
<zenspider> that I can't tell you
<rickhull> i'll see about making a tighter test case. i think i'm missing something in my example
<zenspider> incompatible encoding regexp match (ASCII-8BIT regexp with UTF-8 string)... but if I ask the string and the regexp they both say they're utf-8
<zenspider> wtf
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<whitequark> zenspider: and what's in options?
<rickhull> new gist, does this change anything? https://gist.github.com/rickhull/85303687be4b83a38baa
<rickhull> it seems clear to me that if i touched lib/foo/bar.rb, i could require 'foo/bar' (require will go deep inside $LOAD_PATH)
<rickhull> but it won't go up (..)
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<rickhull> and i'm just trying to understand if this is expected behavior (i assume so)
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<rickhull> gist updated, showing require 'foo/bar' works, and -Ilib now
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<zenspider> my gsub block call was producing a new string that was injecting into the original and changing the encoding incompatibily
<zenspider> force encoding the gsub block call seems to have fixed that
<zenspider> tho this is the type of change I prefer to run by tenderlove before I commit
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<zenspider> that seems to have fixed me up
<zenspider> but I'm not sure I didn't regress on something as well
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<zenspider> no regression
<zenspider> fantastic
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