apeiros changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Nick registration required to talk || Ruby 2.0.0-p195: http://ruby-lang.org (Ruby 1.9.3-p429) || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com
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<injekt>
moin
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<zenspider>
99.9920% success rate
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<andrewvos>
Huh?
<andrewvos>
60% of the time, it works every time.
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<questioner>
Greetings, I come with trouble with ruby.h. I am trying to deploy the latest ruby on CentOS 6.0 and have built a rpm using https://github.com/haf/ruby-1.9.3-rpm -- however, after the build there's no ruby.h file in /rpmbuild/BUILD/ruby-1.9.3-p448
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<manveru>
questioner: greetings, the latest ruby is 2.0.0-p195 :)
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<andrewvos>
Well, you certainly live up to your name.
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<questioner>
manveru: I question the usability of that; I am just deploying here, not developing and I have already encountered a problem with it from just running rake. So that doesn't answer my question.
<questioner>
Are there any official RPMs that are up to date?
<cout>
why doesn't the world make sense like ruby does?
<whitequark>
thank god the world doesn't make sense like ruby
<whitequark>
though
<whitequark>
not sure about that
<cout>
maybe it's because matz has programmed my brain
<bgant>
horse.dead do { |stick| stick.beat(horse) }
<bgant>
seems to work for me
<bgant>
:D
<cout>
poor horse :(
<whitequark>
cout: well, you're lucky it wasn't stroustrup
<cout>
I'm even luckier it wasn't alexandrescu
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<erikh>
^^^^
<erikh>
because D
* erikh
is still mad about D
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<julweber>
when you are looking for a Platform as a Service to host your web apps, you can try our Beta version of anynines: http://www.anynines.com/
<llaskin>
given a variable with a value of 1.1 or a value of 1(and not knowing what the value is), how can I auto format that so it always shows correct precision? that is that if its "exactly" 1, it will display 1, and when its 1.1 it will show 1.1 ?
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<MartynKeigher>
hey.... im getting a --- start_tcp_server': no acceptor --- error and i need a little help.
<MartynKeigher>
a service that i am reinstalling on to the same port is unable to start due to this error. how can i unbind the "onld install" from the port.
<llaskin>
given a variable with a value of 1.1 or a value of 1(and not knowing what the value is), how can I auto format that so it always shows correct precision? that is that if its "exactly" 1, it will display 1, and when its 1.1 it will show 1.1 ?
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<manveru>
MartynKeigher: kill the old one
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<MartynKeigher>
im trying but having no luck somehow??
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<MartynKeigher>
im re-wrtiing this to go one port UP.
<MartynKeigher>
hang on... think this may do it?
<manveru>
well, find the old process
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<manveru>
it's running somewhere
<manveru>
lsof -nPi should show it
<manveru>
if you're on linux, anyway
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<manveru>
damn
<MartynKeigher>
nice
<MartynKeigher>
how do i kill PID 1216
<manveru>
kill 1216
<MartynKeigher>
your joking?
<manveru>
no
<MartynKeigher>
god damn it!
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<MartynKeigher>
awesome!
<MartynKeigher>
think that might just do it! :)
<manveru>
:)
<MartynKeigher>
will let ya no in 5 minutes! :)
<manveru>
it takes 5 minutes to start your server?
<MartynKeigher>
writing up conf file.
<MartynKeigher>
**figure of speech! ;)
<MartynKeigher>
k...it worked! :)
<MartynKeigher>
thank you so much! :)
<andrewvos>
Pleasure
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<eam>
what's appropriate ruby convention for stuff like this? https://gist.github.com/eam/5887380 Do I need to do that module/class boilerplate every time I make a sub-module? I can't seem to just 'class Foo::Bar::Baz'
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<Mon_Ouie>
You can if Foo::Bar is already defined
<Mon_Ouie>
It affects constant lookup though, so you might still want to nest them
<eam>
it doesn't seem to be, baz doesn't require foo/bar
<eam>
Mon_Ouie: how do I avoid prefixing my entire file with several levels of indention? is there a recommended way?
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<eam>
how does it change constant lookup?
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<Mon_Ouie>
When you inter a module or a class, it gets pushed on a stack of modules in which constants are looked up. So when you do Foo::Bar::Baz, only the last class gets pushed up in the stack
<Mon_Ouie>
While with nesting constants are also looked up in Foo::Bar and Foo
<eam>
ah ok, that's preferable actually
<eam>
I guess I'm just going to copy the definitions for each module/class in the namespace into every file in my project
<eam>
doesn't seem to be a way around it
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<eam>
this requirement to define the stack -- it exists because there's ambiguity between whether a namespace element is a module or a class, right?
<eam>
if modules were removed from ruby, you could just class Foo::Bar without worrying about Foo
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<erikh>
RickHull1: hash -r
<erikh>
does that fix it?
<RickHull1>
my local gems were out of date, updating them
<RickHull1>
updating gems didn't help
<RickHull1>
but hash -r did something
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<RickHull1>
bundle env # works now
<RickHull1>
what did hash -r do?
<erikh>
RickHull1: it updates your path
<erikh>
well, that's not accurate
<erikh>
it updates what unqualified scripts point at in your path
<erikh>
s/scripts/commands
<erikh>
sorry been a long day... I've had 3 hours sleep
<RickHull1>
cool
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<JoelMcCracken>
erikh: yes, i did try it
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<judofyr>
idea: The Newbie Grant. if you're a newbie who's never used framework X (or technology Y) you can get $50 if you try it out, following the official documentation, and write a report where you say what parts were confusing
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<jroes>
that's really cool
<jroes>
who would grant it
<jroes>
I suppose framework X or tech Y would
<judofyr>
yeah
<judofyr>
or person Z if he/she likes Z or Y
<judofyr>
err, likes X* or Y
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<whitequark>
judofyr: excellent idea, but what do we do with flocks of inexperienced programmers (or just non-programmers?) who just want money?
<judofyr>
whitequark: chat with them first
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<whitequark>
makes sense
<judofyr>
I mean, you're not going to get dozens a day
<whitequark>
you totally do, trust me
<judofyr>
let me rephrase: as a project owner you're not interested in dozens a day
<whitequark>
that's right
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<whitequark>
though, I wonder about SNR anyway.
<judofyr>
the site should probably function more as a mailing list: insert your current experience and we'll team you up with a project if something comes up
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<RickHull1>
have a $10-50 guarantee, depending on the feedback
<judofyr>
or, more Kickstarter-ish: the project gets its own page and
<judofyr>
newbies "apply" to specific projects
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<judofyr>
SNR is going to be a problem, yes
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<whitequark>
maybe reverse the relationship?
<whitequark>
you make a writeup, and ten best receive the grant
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<whitequark>
though, this has a lottery-ish feeling and is going to turn people down... dunno
<judofyr>
yeah
<judofyr>
I was hoping to not make it into a Big Thing
<judofyr>
it should rather be more open-sourcey and friendly
<judofyr>
thus only $50
<whitequark>
$50 isn't that small
<judofyr>
well, depends on the country and life situation
<jroes>
you could always make it The Newbie Challenge
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<jroes>
and take money out of the equation
<whitequark>
judofyr: I imagine small... small? big! flocks of schoolchildren flooding the website
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<judofyr>
jroes: newbiechallenge.com is taken already
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<judofyr>
whitequark: that might be okay. as long as they're actually interested in learning and proving the docs. but yeah, the money could make it difficult to target the right group.
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<RickHull1>
give them $5 worth of BTC
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<RickHull1>
or a BTC nickel or something
<whitequark>
what's nickel?
<RickHull1>
more of a token but still useful
<RickHull1>
0.05 BTC
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<dominikh>
bitcoin? why insult the people who are helping you :P
<RickHull1>
what's insulting?
<whitequark>
dominikh: I would totally take money in Bitcoin
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<whitequark>
I once read the list of requirements for bank transfer
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<judofyr>
heh, the more serious BTC gets, the harder it gets to trade it for cash
<whitequark>
is this a prediction or an observation?
<judofyr>
observation as well. Mt. Gox is getting stricter and stricter
<judofyr>
or: they're slower and slower
<judofyr>
and more limitations for how much you can take out and so on
<RickHull1>
rather than framing it as a how-do-i-get-cash problem, instead it's an internet token. trade it for some music or donate it forward
<judofyr>
I should probably verify my Mt.Gox account soon…
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<judofyr>
I might need the money some time…
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<judofyr>
RickHull1: true, but most of the market today is speculating (unfortunately)
<RickHull1>
oh sure, you can't ignore the cash problem
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<judofyr>
but yeah, bitcoins could actually be a good idea
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<judofyr>
and 0.5 BTC sounds a lot less than $50 :P
<ryanf>
hey judofyr
<ryanf>
any particular reason you were asking about draper-like gems?
<ryanf>
out of curiosity
<whitequark>
he's masochistic
<judofyr>
ryanf: well, I'm trying to sketch out other ways to deal with the whole controller-view-integration. not a fan of the "basic" Rails approach, and still not sure if decorators are the best way forward.
<ryanf>
it's pretty unambitious w/r/t the controller/view thing though
<judofyr>
hah, nice nick
<ryanf>
I kind of just wanted to make something that was optimally helpful just within the normal view layer
<ryanf>
you might remember me asking you about rumble actually -- it has a tweaked version embedded in it
<ryanf>
there's also an experimental branch that has support for writing inline templates as comments inside presenter methods, but I haven't merged it yet
<judofyr>
ryanf: cool. I remember someone asking about Rumble, but I've forgotten it was you. so many nicks :(
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<judofyr>
I even got a mention in the README. woo!
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<ryanf>
yeah I mostly just made the escaping match rails conventions instead of markaby
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<ryanf>
and reduced the number of tags it defines by default
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<ryanf>
oh, also I made the outer rumble block mandatory again, because I was getting some weird behavior calling between different methods without the outer wrapper
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<judofyr>
yeah, I think I made that mandatory in Mab as well
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<judofyr>
ryanf: my general plan: not having decorators, but rather having a class (call it a "view class") that goes together with template
<judofyr>
ryanf: kinda like helpers, exception it's a class that you can control (you initialize it, you can set instance variables, and so on)
<judofyr>
nope
<judofyr>
ryanf: Cells is the closest thing I've seen
<judofyr>
ryanf: ah, seems similar to Mustache?
<ryanf>
if curly existed when I started keynote, I probably have tried using it instead. it seems pretty neat
<ryanf>
although logicless templates would be a bit of a leap from our existing view code, whereas normal presenters fit in with their surroundings a bit more
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<judofyr>
one thing I've been struggling with: how to make it fit into "regular" actions. e.g. I want to be able to do `def show; … end` and presenter logic to that action
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<judofyr>
without a separate class
<judofyr>
(and add* presenter logic)
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<judofyr>
or, it's not really presenter logic I'm looking for. I think it's fine having regular controller stuff in the same class
<judofyr>
e.g: fetching stuff from database vs. cached data
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<judofyr>
what about this: what if you could do: class Index < Action; end
<judofyr>
where you have a `def call; end` that's being invoked (if you need custom logic)
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<judofyr>
and that just calls app/views/foo/index.html.erb with that class as self
<judofyr>
you could then add: def post; @post ||= Post.find(params[:id]) end
<judofyr>
I'm starting to like this approach
<ryanf>
hmm
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<ryanf>
that seems interesting. I totally agree that having a template execute in the context of a recognizable object that you have control over
<judofyr>
then you could have another concept (let's call it "fragments") that are more standalone classes
<ryanf>
would be a big improvement
<judofyr>
e.g. if you're showing a Post the same way everywhere, you could do: class Post < Fragment; def initialize(post) end end
<ryanf>
then you could actually use the "helper" concept in a less dumb way than just like "here's a giant mystery object with every single helper mixed into it"
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<judofyr>
and Post#to_s would render app/fragments/post.html.erb
<ryanf>
interesting
<ryanf>
I think one interesting subject that's come up for me thinking about this stuff is like
<ryanf>
when does it make sense for control flow to be in the template vs being in ruby
<judofyr>
and Action is of course just a subclass Fragment: it's a more specialized Fragment (it takes a controller context as parameter, provides some delegates to the controller, changes the template path)
<ryanf>
it sounds like you're leaning towards control flow in the template calling into methods on the presenter/
<ryanf>
?
<judofyr>
ryanf: yes
<judofyr>
I don't quite consider it a "presenter" though. it's no longer just about presenting
<ryanf>
sure
<whitequark>
I kinda feel that you are reinventing ASP here
<whitequark>
maybe take a look at it
<judofyr>
whitequark: VIEWSTATE on Rails is next on my TODO list
<whitequark>
seriously?
<judofyr>
no
<judofyr>
:D
<judofyr>
but now I kinda want to make a gem out of it
<whitequark>
lol.
* whitequark
finishes writing the new Foundry parser
<whitequark>
also you can do foo(1, bar: "foo", 2)
<whitequark>
the language basically splits positional and keyword arguments into two "bins" and passes them distinctly
<whitequark>
no hash madness
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<judofyr>
ryanf: I've found that having templates with little logic is so much more maintainable. I don't mind writing Ruby though, but ERB+Helpers+instance variables isn't enough
<whitequark>
but: you cannot arbitrarily name arguments like in Python... that really doesn't play well with forwarding
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<ryanf>
judofyr: sure
<judofyr>
ryanf: let me rephrase: logicless templates are better, but I don't need a logicless language to accomplish it.
<ryanf>
yeah
<ryanf>
it just seems like realistically, minimizing the amount of logic in the template requires tools that make it easy to express that logic in non-template form
<judofyr>
yes
<ryanf>
since the logic itself isn't going anywhere
<judofyr>
and Rails seems really stuck on "MVC" is all you need, and you end up putting everything into these buckets
<ryanf>
yep
<judofyr>
validations goes into models, but recently they moved *some* of it out into controllers. templates overflows into helpers. helpers turns into a mess.
<ryanf>
anyway yeah, personally I think decorators are much less interesting than just objects that have responsibility for view logic
<ryanf>
there's a bit in the keynote readme about why I don't like decorators, but it sounds like you aren't interested in going that way anyway
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<ryanf>
the stuff you're talking about trying sounds really interesting
<judofyr>
it always helps to talk about it
<judofyr>
I've been thinking loosely about this in the last days
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<judofyr>
the whole "class Index < Action" was something I discovered now
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<ryanf>
that's interesting in that it sounds more like it corresponds to a non-partial rails view
<ryanf>
whereas people usually just think about making reusable stuff easier, like normal partials
<judofyr>
non-partial rails view?
<ryanf>
urgh, having trouble being coherent. what I mean is draper etc all target the use case of making it easier to dry up small pieces of view
<ryanf>
not making it easy to organize the entire view for an action
<ryanf>
yeah, like /views/posts/show.html.erb and not _post.html.erb
<judofyr>
ah, yes
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<judofyr>
every templates/view starts out unique, it's only later that you realize you need to share code. I'd like my actions to grow in the same way.
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<judofyr>
and not being forced to create a new view file, a new template, and just invoke that from my view
<judofyr>
s/my view/my action/
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<ryanf>
completely unrelated: there's some talk of making rails use temple, isn't there?
<ryanf>
er I mean
<ryanf>
tilt
<judofyr>
well, no-one is working on it
<judofyr>
it's more like a "it would be nice, wouldn't it?"
<ryanf>
oh ok
<judofyr>
but it doesn't bring that many advantages
<ryanf>
I was wondering if there was code to make tilt use rails-y escaping
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<ryanf>
when I was doing the inline stuff for keynote, I started with tilt, but it seemed really hard to make the templates behave the same as rails templates
<ryanf>
so I ended up hacking up actionview instead
<judofyr>
depends. you can't use Tilt's ERB module
<judofyr>
if you're writing your own template class for Tilt, you just need to use ActiveSupport::SafeBuffer
<judofyr>
or whatever it's called
<ryanf>
that
<judofyr>
Slim has some code for it
<ryanf>
well the idea is that you can use any supported template language
<ryanf>
yeah, it seemed like a few of them could be special-cased
<judofyr>
ryanf: heh, and here I thought they made Rails 3 modular and perfect…
<judofyr>
Rails 3: "yes, we're making it modular, but rendering is still a private API and a pain in the ass"
<ryanf>
I think I've seen someone express a desire to separate the templates from the controllers more
<ryanf>
recently
<ryanf>
not sure if that's gone anywhere though
<ryanf>
and I don't remember who it was
<judofyr>
or, maybe it's not a private API, but there's no docs
<ryanf>
yeah
<judofyr>
interesting
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<judofyr>
ryanf: block of comments? interesting approach. any reason you didn't want to use a heredoc?
<ryanf>
the main reasons were
<ryanf>
that way people can't fuck up the template caching by interpolating into the template string
<ryanf>
and it's less syntactically noisy
<ryanf>
and I thought it would be cool :)
<judofyr>
it feels a bit "wrong", but it has a certain appeal
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<ryanf>
yeah, part of the reason I haven't released it in a gem yet is that I haven't quite figured out how much to emphasize it or whether it's even a good idea
<whitequark>
comments. wow. probably the lamest way someone has embedded one language in another I've seen in a while
<whitequark>
it did some good for you though: for example, no escaping problems.
<ryanf>
whitequark: thanks :)
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<whitequark>
ryanf: the general problem with this is that comments are widely assumed to not change the meaning of code
<ryanf>
yes
<ryanf>
it's a huge violation of the principle of least surprise
<whitequark>
has nothing to do with principles, honestly
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<whitequark>
it is an invariant. "if I remove comments, nothing changes". you violate this invariant, which is otherwise enforced by Ruby
<whitequark>
which is by itself not necessarily a bad thing; but you force your consumers to validate their tooling, which was built upon different assumptions.
* whitequark
shrugs
<whitequark>
consider, for example, code analysis tools like CodeClimate
<whitequark>
they will have a *very* hard time catching up with your gem
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<whitequark>
unless they use a better parsing solution like my parser :p
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<ryanf>
yeah, fair enough
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<whitequark>
then, consider IDEs like RubyMine and their refactoring capabilities
<ryanf>
although when it comes to analysis, code climate isn't going to be looking inside a string for template code anyway
<whitequark>
ryanf: oh, I think brakeman does a little bit of such analysis
<ryanf>
so that might be more of an argument against embedding templates in a ruby file period
<ryanf>
(which is certainly fair)
<whitequark>
probably not enough in your case, but it can be relatively easy extended to analyze heredocs
<whitequark>
then, consider JRuby and its compilation process, which obviously discards comments
<whitequark>
so it will not be possible to distribute a proprietary app as a jar
<whitequark>
ryanf: what about using heredocs and ruby interpolations?
<whitequark>
or were you specifically against using ruby interpolations?
<ryanf>
I'm specifically against using ruby interpolation
<ryanf>
if only because of escaping
<whitequark>
ok
<judofyr>
ryanf: I was about to say that your email address at http://rynftz.gr/ contained a ligature, but it seems you did it intentionally?
<ryanf>
haha
<ryanf>
yeah, the link goes to the right place :)
<ryanf>
it's a little gratuitous though. I forgot I did that
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<judofyr>
yeah, I dunno why I selected the text instead of just right clicking and "copy email"
<whitequark>
what about just clicking on the link? :D
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<judofyr>
TODO: setup mailto: to point to Gmail
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<whitequark>
there's a protocol for it, you know
<whitequark>
and chrome supports it
<whitequark>
so should FF...
<judofyr>
yeah, I'm using FF these days because Chrome on OS X eats swap
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<whitequark>
1-800-EAT-SWAP
<judofyr>
it's not using all my memory, but it still has 5GB of swapfiles
<judofyr>
(if not more, maybe more is released when I reboot)
<whitequark>
I'd guess this is not chrome, but os x's memory management policies
<judofyr>
but I quit Chrome and got 5GB back
<judofyr>
yeah
<judofyr>
or, combination
<whitequark>
oses generally evict unused pages to swap, just to have more free ram in case you need some
<whitequark>
even if they're not low on memory
<judofyr>
well, I have 9GB of swap files
<judofyr>
and a 4GB sleep file
<whitequark>
and the general consensus around is that os x cannot do ram or filesystem... so I'm not exactly surprised
<judofyr>
and this is just a 120GB SSD
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<judofyr>
so it's kinda annoying
<judofyr>
lets hope that Sea Lion fixes it
<erikh>
or network
<whitequark>
erikh: :D
<whitequark>
but it's shiny
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<erikh>
it is
<erikh>
it's a very good desktop OS
<whitequark>
that depends on your requirements to a desktop OS.
<whitequark>
but, for majority it probably is.
<erikh>
yes it is a subjective topic
<judofyr>
I need some sleep
<erikh>
and I totally got puppet running under unicorn today so I give zero fucks about anything else
<whitequark>
judofyr: $ sleep 10s
<whitequark>
erikh: are you high on unicorns
<erikh>
yes
<judofyr>
whitequark: aren't you also in UTC+2 or 3 or so?
<whitequark>
judofyr: UTC+3
<whitequark>
but fuck sleep
<judofyr>
s/also//
<whitequark>
night is more productive
<judofyr>
timezones makes me dizzy. is it 00:00 or 02:00 over there?
<whitequark>
there are no neighbors drilling the fucking walls
<judofyr>
s/makes/make/
<whitequark>
03:00
<judofyr>
but
<judofyr>
I'm in UTC+2
<dominikh>
that'd be UTC+4
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<dominikh>
DST, yo.
<whitequark>
dominikh: oh, then russia is UTC+4 now.
<whitequark>
like if I give a fuck.
<whitequark>
they change it like yearly
<dominikh>
oh, russia, the folks who completely fucked up DST even more ;)
<whitequark>
it's easier to just set your clock to UTC
<drbrain>
dominikh: more than the US?
<drbrain>
is that possible?
<dominikh>
every russian I ask has no idea what timezone he's in now
<whitequark>
^
<judofyr>
tell that to muricah
<dominikh>
drbrain: I think they decided to forever stick with it or something
<whitequark>
^
<whitequark>
first it was UTC+3 forever, now it is seemingly UTC+4 forever
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<judofyr>
whitequark: that was to you: try get the US to switch to UTC
<whitequark>
and these morons actually discussed enforcing UTC+4 time on *all of the russian territory*
<judofyr>
or Asia for that matter
<judofyr>
hah
<havenwood>
global timezone... deal with it, some of you have a dark daytime
<whitequark>
all these politicians
<judofyr>
whitequark: well, at least people will get used to the idea of consistent timezone. should be easier to switch to plain UTC after that
<whitequark>
just making work for tzdata maintainers
<judofyr>
alright, I'm out
<whitequark>
they're probably the most miserable people in the world
<dominikh>
judofyr: problem is, russian timezone is terrible terrible for winter now.
<whitequark>
dominikh: we have 4 hours of daytime at the peak of winter
<judofyr>
ryanf: it was nice talking! I'll report my findings on the controller-view problem.
<whitequark>
one hour here or there won't really cut it that much
<dominikh>
whitequark: looking forward to increased suicide rates :/
<dominikh>
whitequark: one hour is a lot
<whitequark>
dominikh: *switching* also drives them up, you know
<whitequark>
heart attacks, etc, etc
<ryanf>
judofyr: cool, looking forward to hearing more about it
<ryanf>
later
<judofyr>
whitequark: what's your latitude?
<whitequark>
55.7517° N, 37.6178° E
<dominikh>
whitequark: switching between DST and no DST has health implications, yes. switching to a sane constant time zone does not, on the long run :)
<dominikh>
whitequark: like, only once, when you switch :)
<whitequark>
dominikh: sure
<whitequark>
I know
<dominikh>
my point is, no DST is great, UTC+4 not so much
<judofyr>
Oslo is norther than that :)
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<whitequark>
judofyr: Oslo is norther than... most cities
<whitequark>
probably :D
<dominikh>
my clock situation is great. UTC in my irc client, local timezone (CET/CEST) on computer and desk clock, always GMT+1 on my wrist watch.
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* judofyr
looks at a map
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<dominikh>
keeps you focussed :>
<whitequark>
dominikh: lol
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<judofyr>
whitequark: man, the rest of world is so far down
<whitequark>
I have local time everywhere, because all of my devices are capable of tracking it on their fucking own
<dominikh>
haha
<judofyr>
what you're all doing down there?
<whitequark>
"local time, so complicated that no mere human can comprehend it"