apeiros changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 2.0.0-p247: http://ruby-lang.org (Ruby 1.9.3-p448) || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com
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<sdegutis> can anyone get ruby 2.1 statically compiled?
<sdegutis> if you can send it my way, it would go to a good cause: https://github.com/sdegutis/zephyros :)
<Cremno> Nice commit log.
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<darix> sdegutis: why a statically compiled ruby?
<darix> what about native extensions? the ruby files?
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<sdegutis> darix: i just figured statically compiled would be easier to embed, but you make good points
<sdegutis> normally compiled then
<sdegutis> Cremno: commit msgs are not my strongpoint
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<sdegutis> anyone know why `make` dies in bigdecimal.a in the past 2 weeks?
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<darix> sdegutis: you will hate yourself in a few months for that.
<sdegutis> darix: for what part?
<darix> the commit messages
<sdegutis> hasnt bit me yet past year
<darix> for a good example.
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<sdegutis> thanks darix
<darix> nn
* sdegutis is running `make` on ruby again
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<sdegutis> looks like its working on this machine
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<sdegutis> dunno why it didnt work on my mbp :(
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<zzak> drbrain: you around?
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<sdegutis> what's the difference between $DESTDIR and $prefix in the Ruby instructions?
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<drbrain> zzak: hi!
<drbrain> sdegutis: where?
<drbrain> link?
<zzak> drbrain: any plans to backport rdoc 4.0.1 to 2.0.0 patch level?
<zzak> i may have asked this already
<drbrain> yes
<drbrain> I've been rubygems-focused lately
<zzak> also, nobu and i are working on an rdoc issue in #ruby-core
<zzak> if you have any feedback
<zzak> <3
<sdegutis> ddfreyne: link to what?
<sdegutis> i mean drbrain
<sdegutis> drbrain: oh, in the ruby readme
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<drbrain> the $DESTDIR and $prefix in the Ruby instructions
<sdegutis> step 7
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<drbrain> $prefix is where ruby will be installed to
<drbrain> $DESTDIR is where ruby will be built to for packaging
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<drbrain> so $DESTDIR may be /package/build/root while $prefix will be /usr/
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<crazyhorse> my friend is trying to install rspec with the command "gem install rspec"
<crazyhorse> and he is getting the error "Could not find a valid gem 'rspec' <>= 0) in any respository
<crazyhorse> gem --version = 1.8.11 ruby --version = 1.9.3p0 remote_source=http://rubygems.org
<crazyhorse> any ideas?
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<sdegutis> drbrain: so if i want to build ruby and package it with my app, which might be anywhere on a user's system, i should build with $prefix as . and $DESTDIR as . too?
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<drbrain> sdegutis: there's a separate configuration option you need to set for a relocatable ruby
<sdegutis> oh
<drbrain> I think --enable_load_relative
<drbrain> yes
<jonthewayne> trying to wrap my head around naming a rails controller class that's in a namespace. Would module Api module V1 class SessionController be the same as Api::V1::SessionsController?
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<drbrain> sdegutis: I would set DESTDIR to a directory inside your package build directory and prefix to something like "ruby" or "ruby-2.0.0"
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<sdegutis> drbrain: hmm interesting
<sdegutis> is this room logged anywhere?
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<sdegutis> perfect.
<sdegutis> bbl.
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<jonthewayne> hey dr brain, how are you?
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<drbrain> fine
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<jonthewayne> heh, cool. mind if I ask you a question?
<drbrain> not at all
<jonthewayne> trying to wrap my head around naming a rails controller class that's in a namespace. Would module Api module V1 class SessionController be the same as Api::V1::SessionsController?
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<drbrain> that's what I've seen a couple of the apps I've worked on do
<drbrain> I'm not current on best practices in Rails
<drbrain> #ror may have a proper answer for you
<jonthewayne> ah, cool. thanks!
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<mootpointer> jonthewayne: I'm assuming there's a typo there.
<mootpointer> SessionController vs SessionsController.
<jonthewayne> oh yeah, that is a typo...besides that though, the two approaches are the same, right?
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<mootpointer> jonthewayne: Correct.
<jonthewayne> thanks mootpointer!
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<utkanos> hello, if I have a multidimensional byte array (output of a transpose) and I wish to make the end result an array whose cells have the rejoined chars into a string, what is the best way to iterate this? this works for example, but I wish to do this for all cells... trans[0].map {|x| x.chr}.join
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<utkanos> I solved it, nevermind, thanks
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<sdegutis> drbrain: does this look right? "DESTDIR=ruby21 ./configure --enable-load-relative --prefix=~/Desktop/built"
<drbrain> I think -enable_load_relative
<drbrain> --enable_load_relative
<drbrain> check ./configure --help
<sdegutis> its --enable-load-relative here
<sdegutis> but DESTDIR should be an env-var?
<sdegutis> i dont see an option for it in ./cofigure
<sdegutis> gofigure
<sdegutis> ;)
<drbrain> I think it should be an env var, but I've never used it ☹
<sdegutis> heh
<sdegutis> here goes nothin
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<sdegutis> so, turns out that if you git clone with --depth 1, make fails with bigdecimal error. but without that, make works
<sdegutis> so, yeah.
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<ryanf> I think DESTDIR is supposed to be an env var of the make install call, not configure
<ryanf> at least that's how this script I'm looking at does it
<drbrain> ryanf: that sounds right
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<sdegutis> phew!
<sdegutis> i was about to do make install before i read that
<sdegutis> but i was waiting on the quicksort test (ironic)
<sdegutis> oh my!
<sdegutis> ruby 2.1 is 96mb!?
<drbrain> sdegutis: that includes RDoc
<sdegutis> ah
<drbrain> and all the C extensions
<sdegutis> 30mb without share/
<drbrain> you can trim it down for embedded use, you probably won't need curses, for example
<sdegutis> good point
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<sdegutis> thx drbrain, you're a real help
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<drbrain> there's a make target for building everything but the documentation
<drbrain> I don't know what it is offhand
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<sdegutis> well its already built now
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<whitequark> drbrain: ruby for embedded use :/
<whitequark> ://
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<sdegutis> so, uh, where's the lib? do you just link against lib/libruby-static.a or is there another one?
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<sdegutis> actually, more pressing question.. ruby-2.1.0/ruby.h exists, but it contains a bunch of #include "ruby/something.h"
<sdegutis> i must have missed the flag to tell it to fix that
<sdegutis> all i did was "./configure --enable-load-relative --prefix=/Users/sdegutis/Desktop/built && make install"
<whitequark> sdegutis: what are you trying to do?
<sdegutis> build ruby 2.1 so i can embed it in a mac app
<sdegutis> so i got it so i can #include "ruby-2.1.0/ruby.h" in my program, but inside that file its #including "ruby/whatever.h" too, not realizing where it really is
<sdegutis> even though i never told it to make it include/ruby-2.1.0/ruby.h, it somehow knew itself, but it didnt know well enough to change its #includes within that file to know the same thing
<whitequark> why are you building 2.1? that's not released yet
<sdegutis> oh.
<sdegutis> i guess i shoudlnt have done it on HEAD
<sdegutis> i just cloned github/ruby/ruby.git
<sdegutis> sorry :(
<whitequark> same for HEAD
* sdegutis backs up a step
<whitequark> it's undergoing rather extensive changes in the GC
<whitequark> you do not want to debug that.
<whitequark> just build latest 2.0 patchlevel
<sdegutis> right, doing that now.
<sdegutis> lookin for sha
<sdegutis> whitequark: how does one know what the latest patchlevel is?
<sdegutis> i found ruby_2_0_0 branch/tag, but im sure thats not any patch level
<sdegutis> oh maybe it is, if its a branch
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<sdegutis> ah, p247, thanks wikipedia :)
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<sdegutis> ok, rebuilt with 2.0.0
<sdegutis> same problem, its looking for #include "ruby/subst.h" within "ruby-2.0.0/ruby.h"
<sdegutis> googling, but if anyone in here knows, i would thank you for mentioning it :)
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<sdegutis> oooh never mind, im just stupid
<sdegutis> its really ruby-2.0.0/ruby/ruby.h, so the ruby-2.0.0 should be part of my -I
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<sdegutis> woot, time for rb_apply()
<sdegutis> (cuz it crashes when i do it manaully :/)
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<sdegutis> did something change between 1.8.7 and 2.0.0 that would cause rb_funcall2(obj, rb_intern("call"), argsPtr) to suddenly fail?
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<sdegutis> the equivalent rb_apply(...) fails too
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<sdegutis> oh, nevermind. i was just passing Qnil in stupidly
<sdegutis> welp, thats like 3 mistakes in a row
<sdegutis> thanks everyone for your saintly patience with me tonight
<sdegutis> shutting up now
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<matti> ;]
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<sdegutis> thanks guys for the idea of linking to 2.0 instead of 1.8.7
<sdegutis> this is pretty neat.
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<sdegutis> is there a way to do rb_protect() but using the current scope?
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<sdegutis> i basically want to catch errors that happen during a rb_apply()
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<sdegutis> the only workaround i can think of is to create a trampoline fn inside ruby, and call that via rb_protect, passing in [proc].concat(args)
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<sdegutis> that worked, but im not proud of it
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<yorickpeterse> Fear not, I have arrived
<sdegutis> hi
<sdegutis> and who are you?
<sdegutis> also, is there a better way to get a class's name than rb_funcall(klass, rb_intern("name"), 0) ?
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<sdegutis> followed by StringValueCStr
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<yorickpeterse> sdegutis: I am me
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<sdegutis> ok
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<yorickpeterse> and no, not that I know of
<sdegutis> ok
<sdegutis> welp,
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<sdegutis> then i guess all i have left to do is figure out why my rb_define_alloc_func() function is returning something that crashes and stuff
<injekt> rue: did you find anything?
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<gnufied> drbrain: hey, thanks for fixing that thread safety problem while compiling extensions
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<sdegutis> oh is ee why its T_DATA.. cuz it has internal C data.
<sdegutis> anything with that is
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<yorickpeterse> I also have one with Dennis Ritchie in the matrix somewhere
<andrewvos> yorickpeterse: This is my favourite image that I've personally added https://github.com/BBC/spassky
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<yorickpeterse> heh
<yorickpeterse> http://i.imgur.com/uLWLyvV.jpg this one
<andrewvos> I like this more than chef/puppet, discuss https://gist.github.com/AndrewVos/6111382
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<sdegutis> well crap
<judofyr> andrewvos: tried Ansible?
<judofyr> sdegutis: crap?
<andrewvos> judofyr: I have not?
<judofyr> andrewvos: http://www.ansibleworks.com/
<andrewvos> judofyr: Well I googled it and I see a UI, why is there a UI.
<judofyr> andrewvos: it's all YAML
<andrewvos> Nooooo
<sdegutis> crap crap crap
<judofyr> andrewvos: but it takes the same approach as your script: a list of commands to run.
<andrewvos> But my script is a thing of beauty
<andrewvos> haha
<sdegutis> something in here must be broken.. https://github.com/sdegutis/zephyros/blob/master/Zephyros/SDRuby.m
<andrewvos> judofyr: Do you use ansible?
* sdegutis sighs
<yorickpeterse> ansible is ok
<yorickpeterse> you get shit like...
<andrewvos> sdegutis: Why are you so sad, sdegutis?
<sdegutis> cuz something in that file must be broken
<sdegutis> i use my app for about 30 seconds and everythings going fine, until suddenly an array or some other random memory has :call called on it
<andrewvos> rb_gv_set("sighfactory", SDWrappedObject([SDGeometry self]));
<andrewvos> rb_gv_set("sighfactory", SDWrappedObject([SDGeometry self]));
<andrewvos> hahahaha
<andrewvos> hahahah
<andrewvos> sighfactory
<sdegutis> andrewvos: heh
<sdegutis> yes.
<andrewvos> god I'm crying
<sdegutis> thats my sigh factory
<sdegutis> cuz rb_register_alloc_func hates ARC
<sdegutis> i mean rb_define_alloc_func
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<andrewvos> It's not bad judofyr. Kind of nice looking. I do like having the raw power of ruby though.
<andrewvos> sdegutis: Maybe you should be more positive in your coding? How about "laughterfactory" next time?
<judofyr> andrewvos: I kinda agree, but it cuts both ways. also: Ansible can run completely over SSH with no other dependencies on the server than bash
<yorickpeterse> "happyfactory"
<sdegutis> andrewvos: thats not as funny
<andrewvos> judofyr: Nothing an scp can't fix :)
<andrewvos> judofyr: Ruby is pretty much everywhere anyway right?
<yorickpeterse> andrewvos: "Permission denid: fuckyou"
<yorickpeterse> * denied
<andrewvos> judofyr: I mean, if you're using a nice distro?
<lupine> it's present on mac and easily installable on all linux and bsd distros
<lupine> you have to bundle it for windows
<sdegutis> well that settles it. i officially have no idea whats wrong with my app.
<andrewvos> Ok well I'm not ever going to be deploying stuff to windows again
<sdegutis> time to abandon ship
<lupine> good plan
<yorickpeterse> > Windows
<lupine> although the bundling isn't that difficult. mac is the platform I really hate deploying to
* yorickpeterse gravedigger-billy
<yorickpeterse> Fuck
<yorickpeterse> fail
<sdegutis> maybe it just doesnt make a whole lotta sense to reinvent half of rubycocoa poorly
yorickpeterse is now known as gravedigger-bill
<gravedigger-bill> FFFFFFF
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<yorickpeterse> fuckit
<andrewvos> Well that was enlightening
<andrewvos> gravedigger-bill ay?
<injekt> tbuehlmann: fwiw don't worry too much about hearing from mojombo on chronic stuff, he won't comment on it
<yorickpeterse> andrewvos: "Gravedigger billy", from the Simpsons
<tbuehlmann> good to know :)
<sdegutis> oh well.
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<yorickpeterse> Groundskeeper Willie's cousin
<yorickpeterse> <3 Willie
<yorickpeterse> By far the best character of the whole series
<andrewvos> Never seen his cousin
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<yorickpeterse> http://youtu.be/rNzPsfnN3sU I mean, look at this
<lupine> maybe it doesn't make sense to use mac-specific code when you're developing a platform-neutral application ^^
<yorickpeterse> andrewvos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQfAyoeqqeI billy
<andrewvos> yorickpeterse: HAHA remember that
<injekt> is someone videoing the tv?
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<andrewvos> with potato
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<yorickpeterse> oh nice, two identical repos but with a different name
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<GarethAdams> How is to_yaml supposed to be used? `YAML.parse("-- foo").to_yaml` # => RuntimeError: expected STREAM-START
<andrewvos> heh
<andrewvos> GarethAdams: It might be something like YAML.dump(
<andrewvos> From what I remember
<GarethAdams> YAML.parse doesn't return a Hash
<GarethAdams> if it was YAML.load then .dump would be the opposite
<GarethAdams> .parse returns a Psych::Nodes::Document :)
<injekt> to_yaml is added to Object (or basic object?), Psych::Nodes::Document just doesn't implement it
<injekt> or it's just broken
<GarethAdams> I guess broken, otherwise http://rdoc.info/stdlib/psych/Psych/Nodes/Node is wrong
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<injekt> I'd go with that, then, and submit a bug report
<GarethAdams> ta
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<apeiros> GarethAdams: the link doesn't load for me, but from Psych::Nodes::Document:
<apeiros> "This node must be a child of Psych::Nodes::Stream"
<apeiros> and:
<apeiros> >> YAML.parse("--- foo").class
<eval-in> apeiros => uninitialized constant YAML (NameError) ... (https://eval.in/39750)
<apeiros> gah
<apeiros> >> require 'yaml'; YAML.parse("--- foo").class
<eval-in> apeiros => (https://eval.in/39751)
<GarethAdams> I just realised the doc I was looking at was for the wrong version of Psych
<GarethAdams> PEBKAC
<apeiros> hm, is that only empty for me? or for others too? should be # => Psych::Nodes::Document
<GarethAdams> yeah it should be ::Document
<apeiros> so before calling to_yaml, you'd have to wrap it in a stream
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<yorickpeterse> OK PSA PEOPLE
<yorickpeterse> CUCUMBER FEATURES ARE NOT FUCKING DOCUMENTATION
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* yorickpeterse shakes his fist at a lot of projects
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<judofyr> yorickpeterse: also: documenting every method is not documentation either. synopsis please!
<judofyr> or, it's documentation, but not enough to understand how to use it
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<yorickpeterse> "documenting every method is not documentation" eeehhh wat
<yorickpeterse> that sentence makes zero sense
<judofyr> yorickpeterse: I agree :D
<judofyr> let me rephrase: it's great that you documented every method, but that doesn't teach me how to use the thing
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<yorickpeterse> oh
<toretore> source code should be documentation enough for anyone
<yorickpeterse> that just means the docs are shit
<yorickpeterse> or lacking
<yorickpeterse> also
<yorickpeterse> what teh fuck
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<judofyr> toretore: trolololo
<judofyr> toretore: completely depends on the project.
<toretore> yeah. for small libraries i think it's fine though
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<yorickpeterse> spork, y u preload helpers
<yorickpeterse> spork plz
<toretore> with rdoc
<yorickpeterse> fuckit, co-worker can solve this
<judofyr> toretore: for "value classes" it's fine (e.g. a Request object is very easy to understand through rdoc). if it's something that's used together with other classes (e.g. a Renderer-class) it's more difficult
<toretore> well, you could just explain at the top how the class is meant to be used
<judofyr> yes
<judofyr> that's my point :)
<toretore> Renderer.new(view).to_html
<toretore> ah
<toretore> right, i said source code :P
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<judofyr> toretore: (I was thinking about a more complex renderer though; something that fetches templates from disk, compiles and caches them, supports multiple engines etc.)
<toretore> that sounds more like middleware to me
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<judofyr> what does that sentence even mean? :)
<yorickpeterse> clearly what we need to do is write long_natural_method_names_that_read_like_sentences_because_dhh_tells_us_to
<toretore> hah
<toretore> what i mean is that sounds like something that does too much
<toretore> i can easily see 3 or 4 independent tasks there
<judofyr> toretore: it could be composed of multiple classes, but it is nice having one class that bundles it together.
<toretore> right
<toretore> the ware in the middle
<judofyr> it's those kinda of classes that really need "free text" documentation
<judofyr> ;)
<toretore> i think. i've never used that word before
<toretore> here's something that seems to be missing documentation: elasticsearch
<toretore> i don't understand it
<judofyr> agreed. it has detailed information about how using specific features.
<judofyr> but it's difficult to understand how everything fits together
<judofyr> toretore: what are you having problems with?
<toretore> exactly
<toretore> i don't really have problems with mapping and using the indexing api
<toretore> i just don't understand how it operates beneath that level
<toretore> shards disappearing etc
<toretore> and i wish it had an explicit api for reindexing
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<yorickpeterse> just read the code bra
<yorickpeterse> self documenting
<yorickpeterse> docs are for scrubs
<yorickpeterse> basecamp
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<yorickpeterse> injekt: https://loco2.com/destinations this doesn't pop
<yorickpeterse> why doesn't it pop?
<cout> pop?
<yorickpeterse> that's the joke
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<sush24> possible a bit off topic .. I was checking out https://gist.github.com/jotto/2932998 .. in oAuth2, should I store the first oauth token and refresh whenever needed?
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<sush24> *possibly
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<yorickpeterse> >> html_space = [194, 160].pack('c*').force_encoding('UTF-8')
<eval-in> yorickpeterse => " " (https://eval.in/39774)
<yorickpeterse> lol
<yorickpeterse> found that in some code here
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<andrewvos> yorickpeterse: HAd any experience with heroku buildpacks?
<yorickpeterse> Never used Heroku other than having looked at it once quite some time ago
<yorickpeterse> So no
<andrewvos> oh :(
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<andrewvos> Anyone have any ideas how I shoudl go about installing pygments in this heroku buildpack? https://github.com/AndrewVos/heroku-buildpack-go/blob/master/bin/compile
<andrewvos> I need to have the pygments binary on the command line
<andrewvos> But this buildpack deletes all build directories
<andrewvos> Just wondering what would be a nice approach
<andrewvos> I mean I could just not delete the directory
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<andrewvos> But I wanted to make my change quite small, so it could possibly get merged. It probably won't get merged, but I would like the changes to be minimal
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<andrewvos> (btw the pygments installation part is quite obviously broken)
<andrewvos> Hmm does `mv dir/* somewhere` move directories inside dir?
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<ledestin> what else would it do?
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<ledestin> except those starting with *
<andrewvos> ledestin: Well I was wondering if it would just move files
<ledestin> and files of course
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<yorickpeterse> I don't like Mongoid
<yorickpeterse> It tries so hard to be a relational ORM/DB and fails equally hard at it
<yorickpeterse> "ZOMGGG DON'T USE RELATIONAL DBs, USE MONGO FOR SPEED!!!!111"
<yorickpeterse> "BUT LETS USE, YOU KNOW, RELATIONS SO WE CAN JOIN STUFF!"
<yorickpeterse> Ugh
<sdegutis> is there a better way to dynamically dispatch methods in a C-created Ruby class than rb_define_method with "method_missing"?
<whitequark> sdegutis: I don't think so.
<whitequark> what's the problem with method_missing?
<yorickpeterse> sdegutis: yes, write Ruby code
* yorickpeterse runs
<sdegutis> um, .. i dont remember
* whitequark sighs
* yorickpeterse likes slapping people and randomly picks sdegutis to slap
<sdegutis> k
<yorickpeterse> That plugin never fails to amaze me
<erikh> nosql in a nutshell
<yorickpeterse> erikh: yeah sadly
<erikh> knowsql
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<injekt> u
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<sdegutis> is there a way to built ruby so that libruby-static.a isnt so huge (10mb)?
<sdegutis> also, is it safe to just delete stuff in lib/ruby/2.0.0/ randomly, or are there certain files that will break an embedded ruby interpreter if they're not there?
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<whitequark> sdegutis: 10mb isn't huge
<whitequark> it's tiny in fact
<whitequark> well, you can try compiling it with -Os or -Oz
<sdegutis> this app started as less than 1mb, now embedding ruby its 25mb
<whitequark> but don't expect the difference to be significant
<sdegutis> ok then ill focus on removing the libs
<whitequark> sure, that's why you should embed Lua or other langs which are specifically developed for it
<whitequark> maybe mruby?
<sdegutis> yeah maybe ill try mruby
<whitequark> libs. no, nothing will break, you just won't be able to use these libs.
<whitequark> all core ruby should be in the .a
<sdegutis> whitequark: excellent.
<sdegutis> thanks :)
<lianj> mruby used to feel like meh
<sdegutis> lianj: but now?
<lianj> dunno
<whitequark> lianj: it's fine for application embedding imo.
<lianj> whitequark: true
<sdegutis> whitequark: btw this is the app in question https://github.com/sdegutis/zephyros in case youre into that kinda thing
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<whitequark> lots of stuff is missing but if you don't run existing code it's ok
<whitequark> sdegutis: I use i3 and linux
<sdegutis> k
<whitequark> don't consider OS X a good OS :)
<sdegutis> meh subjective
<whitequark> yup
<lianj> whitequark: i would like mruby with builtin ffi
<whitequark> lianj: then add it!
<whitequark> like, it's not exactly complex
<lianj> no you do! :P
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<whitequark> I don't use mruby
<whitequark> in fact, these days I just use ocaml :D
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<sdegutis> so, i basically reinvented half of RubyCocoa, and it just breaks.
<sdegutis> i thank ARC
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<whitequark> ha, ARC
<sdegutis> yes?
<lianj> whitequark: actually i will give it some hours
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<sdegutis> what's x86_64-darwin12.4.0/enc for?
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<sdegutis> yay now my app is only 17mb
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<sdegutis> what's the right way to manage a VALUE that you receive from a ruby extension C function, and pass around within your app, when Ruby no longer knows about it?
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<drbrain> sdegutis: each encoding is implemented as a shared library
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<sdegutis> drbrain: so deleting those will just break specialized encodings, but ruby files with unspecified encodings will still work?
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<sdegutis> it looks like its still working, but i dont have any encode str in my ruby file
<drbrain> sdegutis: you can probably delete anything that's not UTF-8, US-ASCII and BINARY (if there is a such a file) if you're not doing any text processing
<sdegutis> i see
<sdegutis> thanks :)
<drbrain> sdegutis: although i'm unsure if you are supposed to also edit the encodings list before patching, I'm not sure if the lookup is done solely on existence of the shared object
<charliesome> sdegutis: you could use rb_gc_register_address
<sdegutis> charliesome: is it necessary?
<drbrain> sdegutis: how is the object in this VALUE created?
<charliesome> sdegutis: or you could create your own data type with its own allocate/mark/free semantics
<drbrain> if you Data_Wrap_Struct/ Data_Make_Struct you should set its allocate/mark/free as charliesome said and ruby will GC it when it is no longer referenced
<sdegutis> drbrain: its so complex right now that im not even sure i know anymore
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<charliesome> sdegutis: sec, doing up a code example
<drbrain> (mark is used for ruby objects the structure references that ruby can't see)
<drbrain> sdegutis: if it's a String, Array or other built-in type then ruby will just GC it
<charliesome> sdegutis: https://eval.in/39810 something like that
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<drbrain> charliesome: I think sdegutis is allocating objects in his C extension already
<sdegutis> so im converting between ObjC and VALUE types, using plain old methods (rb_str_new2() and StringValueCStr() etc)
<sdegutis> the problem is happening with callbacks
<drbrain> if you send that to ruby and stop referencing it the GC will clean it up
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<sdegutis> when i pass a Proc to my C extension, i save it in my program's own memory, but it's already left the Ruby GC by that point
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<charliesome> sdegutis: so use rb_gc_register_address with the location where you save the VALUE
<sdegutis> ive tried calling rb_gc_register_address() on the proc when i receive it and rb_gc_unregister_address() when im done with it, it didnt solve my bug
<charliesome> did you call it on the VALUE itself, or the address where the VALUE is
<charliesome> ie. if you have 'VALUE my_value;' you need 'rb_gc_register_address(&my_value);'
<drbrain> sdegutis: if you pass the proc to your C extension there's a reference on the stack
<sdegutis> i call it on the address where it is
<drbrain> so I don't think you need rb_gc_register_address
<sdegutis> oh right
<drbrain> sdegutis: what error do you get?
<sdegutis> drbrain: sometimes -call: happens on the proc, sometimes it happens on a random object in memory (arrays, strings, whatever)
<drbrain> if you crash ruby (SEGV, bus error, etc) you are probably missing a rb_gc_register_address()
<sdegutis> even though the callback never changed. it was defined once.
<drbrain> so memory corruption?
<drbrain> this could be a rb_gc_register_address() problem or a fault in your extension
<sdegutis> its almost definitely a fault in my extension
<drbrain> I have to get on the bus soon, but if you can show source I think charliesome can help you, if he has the time, of course
<sdegutis> (btw im embedding ruby, so its not really an extension, but it still kinda is)
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<sdegutis> thanks drbrain cya
<charliesome> yeah i'd be happy to take a look if you can post a small-ish sample of code
<sdegutis> charliesome: unpossible, thats my problem
<sdegutis> charliesome: its so insanely intertwined
<charliesome> oh heh
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<sdegutis> thats why im trying to reason about it instead
<sdegutis> i think ive narrowed it down to an ObjC bug
<sdegutis> i mean, a bug in my ObjC
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<charliesome> sdegutis: https://github.com/sdegutis/zephyros/blob/master/Zephyros/SDRubyObject.m#L19 you should prefer RARRAY_AREF instead
<charliesome> especially when rgengc arrives in 2.1
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<sdegutis> simple swap?
<sdegutis> just replace it with "RARRAY_AREF"
<sdegutis> ?
<charliesome> yeah
<charliesome> RARRAY_AREF takes the array and the index
<sdegutis> lookin for where its defined
<charliesome> VALUE second_slot = RARRAY_AREF(my_ary, 1);
<sdegutis> right
<sdegutis> charliesome: where is RARRAY_AREF defined?
<sdegutis> i think 2.0 may not have it
<charliesome> ruby/ruby.h
<charliesome> hmm if 2.0 doesn't have it
<charliesome> maybe do
<charliesome> #ifndef RARRAY_AREF \n #define RARRAY_AREF(ary, idx) (RARRAY_PTR(ary)[idx]) \n #endif
<sdegutis> ok
<sdegutis> btw is rb_obj_as_string the same as #inspect?
<charliesome> nope
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<sdegutis> k
<charliesome> it calls to_s
<sdegutis> ah
<sdegutis> does the c api have something like #p ?
<charliesome> rb_inspect() is like #inspect
<sdegutis> ah
<charliesome> there's also rb_p()
<sdegutis> excellent :D
<charliesome> sdegutis: i think there should be a 'rb_gc_register_address(&block.internalValue);' here https://github.com/sdegutis/zephyros/blob/master/Zephyros/SDRubyObject.m#L48
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<sdegutis> charliesome: addin it now
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<sdegutis> was just about to ask about it
<charliesome> also make sure you have the rb_gc_unregister_address in the destructor of that obj c class
<sdegutis> was gonna ask, does that call need to be on the original pointer it was received from?
<sdegutis> yeah thats my plan
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<charliesome> nah it needs to be called on where you're holding the VALUE
<charliesome> so the gc knows to look at it and mark that object
<sdegutis> refresh.
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<banister> .
<charliesome> no you need rb_gc_register_address(&block.internalValue)
<charliesome> otherwise you're telling the GC to look at that stack location
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<charliesome> same with the dealloc method
<ryanf> hi banister
<banister> yo
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<sdegutis> charliesome: that wont compile.
<sdegutis> le objc woez
<charliesome> sdegutis: ugh :| is there a way you can have a field that you can take the address of?
<charliesome> worst case you can always hold a VALUE* pointing to a malloced bit of memory
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<sdegutis> charliesome: i think the VALUE* is the only solution
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<yorickpeterse> whitequark: re http://whitequark.org/blog/2013/07/30/metaprogramming-in-foundry/, didn't you initially have the typedefs before the arguments?
<yorickpeterse> hm yeah, I liked that idea more (syntax wise)
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: meh
<whitequark> won't parse
<yorickpeterse> oh?
<whitequark> well
<whitequark> it's really ambiguous
<whitequark> especially with kwargs
<whitequark> def f(Integer foo: bar)
<whitequark> ugh
<yorickpeterse> hmm
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<yorickpeterse> when it comes to kwargs I'd actually prefer the Python syntax
<yorickpeterse> def foo(name = "Guido"); foo(name = "Matz")
<yorickpeterse> but that's a bit unrelated
<charliesome> yorickpeterse: conflicts with ruby syntax
<whitequark> I thought about doing the python thing
<whitequark> but the problem is, that requires the caller to introspect callee
<whitequark> something not fit at all for the message passing paradigm
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<mbj> whitequark: Thx for adding your logger to #mutant !
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<whitequark> sure
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: you're already deviating from the Ruby syntax
<yorickpeterse> so why not make it suck a little bit less?
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: eh? what do you mean by that?
<yorickpeterse> it would actually mean kwargs and optargs can be merged
<yorickpeterse> as in, you already introduce a type syntax
<whitequark> no, it wouldn't
<yorickpeterse> so the syntax is no longer Ruby, might as well go a bit further to tweak it
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<whitequark> it's not possible to sensibly mix keyword and positional args in the message passing paradigm
<yorickpeterse> eh?
<yorickpeterse> actually it wouldn't be that difficult
<yorickpeterse> well of course depending on how you store args
<whitequark> not if you want to have *args/**kwargs
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<yorickpeterse> ugh, **kwargs
<yorickpeterse> method_missing for arguments
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<yorickpeterse> errr, kwargs
<tubbo> yorickpeterse: that would not be good in ruby (the kwargs syntax)
<tubbo> because (var = "value") could be read as an expression
<tubbo> so if ruby doesn't go that way we can still write def fn(foo: (name = "Matz"))
<tubbo> :D
<yorickpeterse> well it would require contextual changes, so I do understand why it's not there
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<tubbo> yeah that too
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: besides, I do not think that random mixing of args and kwargs is a good idea
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<yorickpeterse> but this half-assed implementation isn't much better than cleaning up parse.y for once
<rue> I’ve liked coffee’s de/structuring syntax
<yorickpeterse> then again, I'm pretty sure nobody likes opening parse.y
<tubbo> i don't even know what that is
<whitequark> rue: yeah, it's in Foundry
<whitequark> yes
<yorickpeterse> tubbo: yes
<yorickpeterse> scroll to the bottom for maximum win
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: so, yeah, positional/keyword distinction stays.
<yorickpeterse> time to make foundry++ so you can use templates to work around that
<whitequark> sigh
* yorickpeterse orders an extra pair of feet to shoot
<tubbo> fun
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<sdegutis> charliesome: that seems to fix it!
<charliesome> sdegutis: cool
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: the point being, API design with distinct kwargs/positional args is simply better
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<whitequark> basically you stash the "main" object on which the method operates in positional args
<whitequark> and the "parameters" of the action into kwargs
<yorickpeterse> hm, do I squash bugs or do I for once actually sit down to read through (ruby-)llvm
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<sdegutis> i wish ruby would just implement clojure's bindings-destructuring
<sdegutis> its way simpler and more intuitive and more powerful than ruby's args stuff.
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<whitequark> yeah
<whitequark> I planned to write a patch for something similar
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<whitequark> but it turned out to be surprisingly hard to add to parse.y
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<whitequark> I know how it can be done, but that's too much work I'm not going to enjoy
<sdegutis> whitequark: really?
<whitequark> really what?
<sdegutis> i dunno
<sdegutis> brain broke
<sdegutis> bbl
<whitequark> I wanted to do {a, b} = foo, which would be equivalent to a = foo.a; b = foo.b
<whitequark> but that's an incredible PITA to parse with LALR(1)
<sdegutis> yeah, ruby isnt suited for that kinda thing
<sdegutis> it would need a syntax thats more compatible with that.. maybe s-expressions
<whitequark> lolwhat
<whitequark> it's more than enough to add a keyword. say "let {a,b} = foo"
<whitequark> that's what I did in Foundyr
<whitequark> *Foundry
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<sdegutis> im just making fun of how hard it is to add to ruby and how trivial it was to add to clojure
<sdegutis> :)
<yorickpeterse> if it would use emacs lisp it would run everywhere
<whitequark> i think that the cost of language extensibility is too often too high
<sdegutis> i dunno, i dont mind whatever cost clojure paid for it
<whitequark> you're paying it as well
<sdegutis> oh?
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<whitequark> since in order to understand a particular piece of code even in simplest terms (eg control flow) you not only have to know clojure, but also whatever extensions someone did to it
<whitequark> the second problem is that adding (true) language extensibility is more or less a way of saying "I suck at designing this language, please fix my errors or omissins when you encounter them"
<sdegutis> whitequark: yeah, but in practice, barely anyone makes control-flow language extensions. they're highly discouraged for obvious reasons.
<sdegutis> the only ones are the ones built in to the stdlib, which amounts to your point #1
<whitequark> as a result you have incompatible variants of the same thing people want
<whitequark> so what I think should happen: we should have complete, finished languages which we can freely compose.
<whitequark> think of it as quasiquotation for languages.
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<sdegutis> whitequark: well in practice i havent seen any issues come from clojure's extensibility, and ive been using it a good 9 months in production
<whitequark> 9 months is so long indeed
<sdegutis> whitequark: in theory it may sound scary and broken but in practice it works great.
<whitequark> oh, that's a common fallacy
<sdegutis> ok then
<sdegutis> bbl
<whitequark> 95% of the time, all languages work very well
<whitequark> it's the rest 5% you have to worry about.
<yorickpeterse> except for PHP
<yorickpeterse> PHP never works
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<sdegutis> a local company i applied for uses a custom in-house framework built in PHP
<sdegutis> they seemed to know about other languages, but they said it doesnt matter what language you use, just as long as you know how to use it well.
<sdegutis> i cant agree with them.
<yorickpeterse> Oh, that's the common way of saying "We're dumb but we're afraid to admit it"
<whitequark> that's true, kind of
<yorickpeterse> it falls in the same category as "Foreign keys are bad for performance so fuck database integrity"
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<whitequark> I know of a few really good projects in PHP. Roundcube, for example
<whitequark> but chances that they do *not* know how to use it well.
<yorickpeterse> The projects differ, I'm specifically against the language
<yorickpeterse> as in, I hate it with a deep passion partially due to the people I had to work with when using it
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<whitequark> at least Rasmus apologized :D
<yorickpeterse> It's not even an easy language, it just allows you to shoot yourself in the foot and bleed to death without feeling the pain
<sdegutis> :)
<whitequark> the deploys are easy.
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<sdegutis> but the templating!
<sdegutis> its so automagic
<whitequark> they're also broken, but also easy. that is something you should strive for.
* whitequark hates capistrano with a passion
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<yorickpeterse> deployments are easy when you use Stupid te^H^H^H^H Apache
<yorickpeterse> and yes, Capistrano is meh
<tubbo> here is how i deploy my apps: `git push origin master`
<tubbo> then travis sends me an email if shit went wrong
<gnufied> bah
<whitequark> that still uses capistrano or something underneath.
<gnufied> and there is some propreitory sugar that deploys it to heroku after travis build?
<yorickpeterse> tubbo: I'd wish that would work when deploying to multiple instances
<yorickpeterse> and those instances can come and go at any given time
<whitequark> well, or a set of post-commit hooks which is even more terrifying
<whitequark> *post-receive
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<whitequark> >puppet
<tubbo> yorickpeterse: the first requirement works
<gnufied> I did not do it, but a collegue of mine. :-)
<whitequark> hey erikh say what you think about puppet.
<tubbo> `git push` for me pushes to all remotes
<yorickpeterse> Puppet is allr ^H^H^H^H^H^H shit
<tubbo> so i could set up a remote for each serve
<tubbo> r
<erikh> whitequark: yeah no time today, sorry
<tubbo> but if i wanted to auto-scale, that's a different storu
<erikh> but I will prepare a three page irc rant for tomorrow
<yorickpeterse> tubbo: that only works if the hosts never change, that's the thing
<tubbo> i'd probably write a tool that emulates a git repo with `git-shell`
<erikh> just ask then. it rolls off the tongue
<yorickpeterse> plus it would require every dev to do that for every repository
<gnufied> erikh: tomorrow I am on leave from IRC
<tubbo> yorickpeterse: yeah but think about it, that's how github.com works. you're not pushing to a single server..
<erikh> gnufied: well then you'd better be using a proxy
<tubbo> when you push to github.com it replicates your files across a whole distribution of computers
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<tubbo> it's not just 1 git server
<yorickpeterse> tubbo: You are, they distribute it behind the scenes
<whitequark> tubbo: that doesn't matter
<tubbo> so this must be possible
<erikh> it's not hadoop
<whitequark> for you it is a single server.
<erikh> lol
<yorickpeterse> You can do that yourself though
<tubbo> erikh: you're hadoop
<tubbo> ;)
<erikh> tubbo: hadoop hadoop
<tubbo> haha
<erikh> anyhow I really have to go
<yorickpeterse> basecamp
<tubbo> haDOOP there it issssssssssssssssss
<erikh> hahahaha
* tubbo always thinks of that when he hears hadoop
<tubbo> haha
<gnufied> tubbo: so you have some custom code going there?
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<gnufied> I understand pushing to many remotes
<tubbo> gnufied: nah i don't distribute to multiple servers
<tubbo> err push to multiple servers and auto-scale
<tubbo> i've never needed to do that, and when i did we just used capistrano anyway
<gnufied> there we are
<gnufied> :-)
<sdegutis> is rb_define_singleton_method(foo, "whatever", ...) the same as def foo.whatever ?
<tubbo> gnufied: but it must be possible
<gnufied> I wonder if anyone uses vlad btw, zenspider keeps pushing new releases of it
<whitequark> isn't vlad the NIH version of capistrano?
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: the last one is deep :<
<yorickpeterse> and NIH?
<whitequark> "not invented here"
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<yorickpeterse> heh
<tubbo> it's supposedly simpler but tbh capistrano has all those neat hooks
<tubbo> for newrelic, airbrake, etc.
<gnufied> whitequark: more or less. I believe it uses raw ssh command rather than using net-ssh lib etc
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<gnufied> here is capistrano story, https://github.com/capistrano/capistrano/issues/434
<gnufied> A major release broken for many days, until I had to fix it myself
<gnufied> :(
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<whitequark> how I feel about webdev in general: http://weknowgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/fuck-this-thing-cat.gif
<yorickpeterse> The average Capistrano story of $WORK:
<yorickpeterse> 1. Run deploy 2. Timeout because fuck you b43 3. Try again 4. Time-out because a server got killed, everything rolled back 5. Try a few more times 6. ???? 7. FINALLY
<gnufied> the author is planning to go passenger route.
<gnufied> capistrano-pro (paid) and regular capistrano
<yorickpeterse> uggghhh
<erikh> haha
<erikh> really?
<yorickpeterse> BUY CAPISTRANO ENTERPRISE NOW TO UNLOCK THE PRO FEATURE "DECENT DEPLOYMENTS", ONLY USD 299
<erikh> ah fuck I really cant watch irc today
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<yorickpeterse> CLICK HERE TO DISMISS THIS MESSAGE FOR ONE HOUR BEFORE IT POPS BACK UP WINRAR STYLE
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<yorickpeterse> that website looks nice though
<yorickpeterse> at least the logo does
<yorickpeterse> links are a total pain to read
<gnufied> erikh: yep. but if he can make some money more power to him.
<yorickpeterse> wait, people actually still use Sake?
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<whitequark> Sake?
<yorickpeterse> lel, "Commercial support" results in a 4040
<yorickpeterse> * 404
<tubbo> sake is the funniest fucking thing ever
<freedrull> hmm why am i not on cap 3 yet... o.o
<tubbo> sake is `rake -s`
<gnufied> yorickpeterse: he is on it. it will happen. (I have it from good authority)
<tubbo> err rake -g or whatever
<tubbo> there are global rakefiles is what i'm saying
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<tubbo> although running rake tasks over the network is kinda interesting
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<yorickpeterse> and probably a massive security hole
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<yorickpeterse> ooooh, scala got a new website
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<yorickpeterse> yet finding an actual example of some code looks nearly impossible
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<gnufied> so #ruby receives lot more newbie questions than #ruby-lang. #ruby-lang is more like ranting ground of people.
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<yorickpeterse> took me a while to get to that page
<yorickpeterse> and yeah pretty much, this is the "angry old farts corner"
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<gnufied> I was doing full time scala 2 years back
<whitequark> probably because registration is required
<yorickpeterse> DAMN IT ETSY, WHERE'S MY CAT PROPELLOR HAT
<yorickpeterse> I ordered it over a month ago
<gnufied> some of the best scala code lives here, https://github.com/scalaz/scalaz
<gnufied> :-)
<gnufied> co-variants, contra-variants
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: you need to get a cat too
<yorickpeterse> ^ shit like that is the sole reason why I have an Etsy account
<gnufied> lol
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<yorickpeterse> and before you ask, yes, I'm single white male living with a cat
<yorickpeterse> So yes, I fit the stereotype
<gnufied> you are prototypical reddit white male.
<gnufied> white whale*
<gnufied> *damn you bundler specs. fail occasionally restart the travis job*
<gnufied> I have never kept or even thought of keeping a pet.
<gnufied> i think animal should be left free.
<gnufied> how will you feel if some alien race invaded and kept us in chains as pets? :-)
<yorickpeterse> gnufied: pretty much
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<yorickpeterse> also, this cat is basically free
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<yorickpeterse> he just sleeps and eats here
<yorickpeterse> goes outside most of the time
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<gnufied> sounds good, then.
<gnufied> you pass gnufied's morality test
<yorickpeterse> I also enjoy him being a dick on other people's balconies
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<yorickpeterse> "hhmmmm yesss, dis is a good place to rub my butt all over the place"
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<whitequark> gnufied: I think people would be delighted
<whitequark> most of them, at least
* whitequark uses GIMP
<whitequark> kill me someone
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<gnufied> dunno, I would hate it. not easing GIMP but being chained.
<gnufied> using*
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: I feel your pain
<yorickpeterse> GIMP is awful
<yorickpeterse> but at least single window mode made it more usable
<gnufied> I have creative cloud subscription, but I need to download and install that thing!
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<gnufied> and for some reason the installer crashes last I tried
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<crankharder> if I have p = Proc.new { name }, can I call it on String such that the return value is "String" ?
<yorickpeterse> if you give the proc an argument and pass it the class, yes
<yorickpeterse> >> p = Proc.new { |klass| klass.name }; p.call(String)
<eval-in> yorickpeterse => "String" (https://eval.in/39826)
<yorickpeterse> hm, I wonder if you can use *_eval here
<yorickpeterse> >> p = Proc.new { name }; String.class_eval(&p)
<eval-in> yorickpeterse => "String" (https://eval.in/39827)
<yorickpeterse> HAHA
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<yorickpeterse> Not surprising, but still
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<crankharder> yorickpeterse: ty
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<sdegutis> how is Ruby 2.0 licensed?
<havenwood> sdegutis: Ruby license.
<sdegutis> can i just embed it in my app, or do i need to include something to do it?
<whitequark> it's dual-licensed under Ruby or BSD, I think
<whitequark> read the license, it's a page long.
<sdegutis> k
<sdegutis> reading
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<yorickpeterse> interesting enough it's not OSI approved
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<whitequark> that's why the dual-licensing
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<charliesome> whitequark: lol Digest::HMAC
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<yorickpeterse> whitequark: oi, is using `throw` for flow control in a recursive method an evil idea? In this case I want to use it to signal the caller that it should not process any other children of the current node
<yorickpeterse> the alternative is a blacklist but that doesn't really work for conditional aborts
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<rue> Throw is flow control
<yorickpeterse> (inb4 abortion joke)
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: no it's ok
<yorickpeterse> wohoo
<yorickpeterse> ok I probably should write `throw(:abort_children)`
<yorickpeterse> * shouldn't
<yorickpeterse> Darn freudian slip
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<sdegutis> hey guys wanna upvote this? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6129965
<yorickpeterse> what's in it for us
<yorickpeterse> I want to have at least one million dollars
<sdegutis> nothing
<sdegutis> maybe a loss of time
<yorickpeterse> ha wtf
<yorickpeterse> > begin; throw :derp; rescue => error; error.class; end
<yorickpeterse> errr
<yorickpeterse> >> begin; throw :derp; rescue => error; error.class; end
<eval-in> yorickpeterse => ArgumentError (https://eval.in/39834)
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<yorickpeterse> Why is that ArgumentError?
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<rue> throw/catch
<yorickpeterse> still, the class is weird
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<rue> I guess it assumes you gave the wrong argument to catch :)
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<yorickpeterse> hm, catch() doesn't have a way to do something when X is thrown, unless you pass an argument to `throw`
<yorickpeterse> I can always use a begin/rescue but hmpf
<yorickpeterse> `throw :skip_something, true` looks odd
<tubbo> throw :myballs, in_your_face
<yorickpeterse> hurrrr
<yorickpeterse> meh, argument it is. I'll just wrap it in a method
<yorickpeterse> MOAR METHOD DIABETUS
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<yorickpeterse> wtf, throw bubbles up
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<yorickpeterse> >> inner_number = nil; number = catch(:foo) { inner_number = catch(:foo) { throw :foo, 10 } }; inner_number + number
<eval-in> yorickpeterse => 20 (https://eval.in/39849)
<yorickpeterse> ^ srsly
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<jtoy> can anyone help me find what i am doing wrong in this regex, i want to match test and help http://rubular.com/r/YQFwmmoQ9j
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<drbrain> jtoy: put the * inside ()
<jtoy> drbrain: oops, thx
<drbrain> regexp can be tricky and subtle
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<freedrull> has anyone tried to make CSV::Table implement uniq, by perhaps including Comparable in CSV::Row and implementing eql? there or something...
<sdegutis> whitequark: are you open to having your bot log other channels too?
<whitequark> yes
<sdegutis> whitequark: can you send him to #zephyros?
<whitequark> done
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<sdegutis> thanks whitequark
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<pcfreak30> Hello, I am trying to learn ruby's concepts and there is something I dont get. I am seeing methods calls like "function :a => :b, c=> d" or such and cant figure out how that works. Thanks
<mistym> pcfreak30: Before Ruby 2.0, that's passing a hash to the method. So your method would be like: def func(hsh); return hsh[:a] == :b; end
<mistym> Ruby 2.0 introduced support for keyword arguments that automatically unpacks that into variables for you: def func(a: :default, b: :default); return a == :b; end
<mistym> pcfreak30: The ability to pass a hash without enclosing braces was a bit of syntactic sugar in older versions. `function :a => :b, :c => :d` is identical to `function({:a => :b, :c => :d})` or `hsh = {:a => :b, :c => :d}; function(hsh)`
<pcfreak30> mistym: would you be able to give a pastie example as its hard to see in irc :S
<mistym> pcfreak30: Sure
<pcfreak30> I am interested in ruby a lot, I come from PHP, JAVA, C#, etc. Just lack of time to start any project :)
<mistym> Just made a minor update, refresh
<pcfreak30> Thanks mistym . Now I would like to know when giving a hash is preferred over a bunch of arguments. As from my background thats just passing an array to everything
<pcfreak30> And does it convert a hash to a list of arguments automatically if something based on the last example?
<freedrull> are openstructs slow >_>
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<mistym> pcfreak30: It does convert a hash to a set of named arguments in Ruby 2.0, if declared that way.
<mistym> A hash is preferred when it helps clarity.
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<mistym> e.g. function('foo','bar','baz',true) # It's not really clear just from reading this used what it does
<pcfreak30> ah. Just ued to c style too much :P
<pcfreak30> used
<mistym> Whereas function('foo', with_foo: obj, dangerous_option_dont_use: true) is a lot more legible to someone not overly familiar with function()
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<pcfreak30> So is it more common to use () with methods or not
<pcfreak30> As it seems ruby ripped a good bit from perl
<pcfreak30> with this if not that
<mistym> Whether you use parens or not is stylistic preference, I guess. Some people always use parens, some use them when necessary for clarity and omit them otherwise
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<mistym> Or for method chaining, because of course you can't foo 'bar' .baz, whereas you can foo('bar').baz
<pcfreak30> eh, just basing off the ruby code ive seen on github and trying to figure things out
<erikh> perl requires parens for a lot more
<Nilium> Do what you think is readable and sane.
<pcfreak30> and i forgot. whats the ! and ? on end of methods
<Nilium> Part of the method name.
<pcfreak30> know. but read its a symbolic meaning
<mistym> People typically name methods with ! for "dangerous" stuff, like stuff that mutates the object (array.delete!('foo'), which deletes values in the original array rather than return a copy)
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<whitequark> no, not really
<mistym> ? is for interrogatory methods that return a bool. Like array.include? 'foo'
<Nilium> ! is usually meant to indicate that something modifies self (though this is inconsistent), ? is like querying.
<whitequark> a method! should exist if 1) method without bang exists, 2) it's "dangerous"
<whitequark> for various values of dangerous. usually, yes, mutation
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<whitequark> could also be bypassing safety checks or such
<pcfreak30> Thanks. Just need to understand ruby classes/inheritance and modules a bit more on google.
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<pcfreak30> How exactly do methods with blocks pass more than 1 argument. Reading http://www.robertsosinski.com/2008/12/21/understanding-ruby-blocks-procs-and-lambdas/
<Nilium> How exactly are you talking when you say exactly?