ChanServ changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 1.9.3-p125: http://ruby-lang.org | Paste >3 lines of text on http://pastie.org or use a gist
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<wardrop> What's the most efficient way to generate a SHA hash for a file in Ruby using only what's in core and std lib?
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<postmodern> wardrop, Digest::SHA1.file(path)
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<drbrain> wardrop: ↑
<wardrop> Does anyone know why Digest is so purely documented? Is there anyway to get better documentation? It's really bad.
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<wardrop> By the way, thanks postmodern, I'll give it a go
<drbrain> wardrop: it's construction is a bit bizarre
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<drbrain> there's lots of metaprogramming on the C side
<wardrop> hmm, ok. I wish someone manually documents it with rdoc comments or something.
<postmodern> wardrop, http://rubydoc.info/stdlib/digest/Digest/SHA1 as you can see most of it's methods come from Digest::Class and Digest::Base
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<tockitj_> more than half of ruby stdlib is bafflingly poorly documented
<zenspider> and yet... patches are _still_ welcome...
<drbrain> tockitj_: zzak will happily commit your patches
<tockitj_> patches like bug fixes ? (:
<drbrain> patches like "this doc was not good so I made it good"
* shachaf shows off the slightly-improved http://slbkbs.org/lens.rb
* zenspider looks around for contributions
* zenspider sees only complaints
<zenspider> or bug fixes...
<tockitj_> well its more like 'its entirely missing' than 'its not so good'
<ddd> ok ok, i get it. i was looking for something to help with and not sure my code-fu would match those currently working on it, so I'll doc fix.
<ddd> stdlib the primary one needing TLC?
<drbrain> tockitj_: 67% of ruby's classes, methods and constants are documented
<drbrain> most of what isn't documented is rexml and rss
<ddd> err? i thought steveklabnick documented rss
<drbrain> bus time
<tockitj_> random clicking on stdilb docs speaks otherwise :( i think its ore than just rexml & rss
<drbrain> ddd: rss is huuge
<ddd> gotcha
<drbrain> tockitj_: then you know exactly what to submit a patch for
<shachaf> I'm not sure that there's a great way to make this work with Ruby. :-(
<tockitj_> how to submit a doc for something i don't understand how is working, and what was rationale for code design :/
<ddd> and i take it the submissions have to be rdoc? no yard?
<zenspider> no yard
<ddd> booo. ok :)
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<zzak> ddd: tockitj_ patches welcome :)
<zenspider> tockitj_: you're handed a nice juicy steak and respond with "no sauce!"... they respond "we're happy to serve your sauce if you make some" and you say "HOW CAN I POSSIBLY MAKE SAUCE?!?"
<ddd> we're supposed to go through ruby-doc.org correct?
<zenspider> ddd: no, submit patches either through a pull request on github ruby/ruby or submit to bugs.ruby-lang.org
<ddd> got it
<zenspider> I think there is an official writeup somewhere...
<zenspider> that
<ddd> cool. i was going through the links off http://www.ruby-doc.org/stdlib-1.9.3/ willr eroute
<zzak> ddd: ruby-doc.org isn't maintained by ruby-core
<ddd> ok
<ddd> reading the wiki. will follow through from there
<tockitj_> guys i'm grateful for the stake.. but docs are more like a bone from which stake should be cut..
<zzak> ddd: cool, thanks!
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<ddd> i'm davidderyldowney on bugs.* if that matters. ddd on gh
<tockitj_> i mean, where did that meat come from if was not on any skelet
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<tockitj_> and stdlib is especially more like convention (and documentation) than implementation
<zenspider> tockitj_: either stfu and enjoy your plain steak, or make us sauce. I'd prefer the latter personally
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<ddd> dude, i see their point. ruby's huge. how many programmers do you know that spend a lot of time writing docs vs. code.
<ddd> someone's gotta step up along with
* zenspider looks at zzak
<zenspider> zzak has been doing a tremendous job of it
<ddd> yeah been following the tweets :)
<tockitj_> ddd, good programmers write docs (:
<tockitj_> and tests ofc
<ddd> tockitj_: so those that don't write crappy code? not buying it
<tockitj_> haven't said that
<ddd> sounded like it
<tockitj_> but good programmers write docs ;)
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<ddd> which is why i doc'd dtf. regardless of status of good or bad, i think writing docs is needed if you want people to understand whats happening without having to completely grok the code. I see your point in that. however, zenspider and zzak are right. if you see a problem, fix it :)
<zenspider> mmmm sauce
<ddd> come on, tell you what. want to work together? pick a section and I'll earmark skype time with you and pair if you want
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<ddd> money or mouth? :)
<ddd> pgpkeys on skype
<zenspider> nice
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<zzak> zenspider: thank you!
<zenspider> THROWDOWN
<zenspider> zzak: no dude... thank YOU
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<tockitj_> hah.. its 3am here.. i got to get to bed.. but thanks for answering (:
<ddd> there is always tomorrow
<tockitj_> true (:
<tockitj_> nite
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<perry> Hi, I'm trying to extract the contents of <text>blah</text> from some old Wikipedia XML archives using nokogiri http://pastie.org/5455891
<perry> so in line 3, page.text returns the text of all values in the hash set. how can I extract "blah"?
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<swarley> oh boy.
* swarley installs nokogiri again so he can help
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<lianj> perry: node.inner_text ?
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<perry> lianj: .inner_text seems to output the same as .text
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<perry> lianj: figured it out :)
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<imperator> lol @ rubydramas.com
<drbrain> imperator: I wonder what qualifies for getting the counter reset
<drbrain> there was a small amount of ruby drama today
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<havenn> Y U NO feature freeze? jk/jk
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<imperator> i have no sympathy for ruby-core. none.
<imperator> people wanted selector namespaces for years, lots of proposals out there
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* imperator goes to watch some more supernatural
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<havenn> In other news, in Python package manager pip, there is no way to update (or even list) all packages. Multiple pull requests, years of discussion, no 'right' way so no way at all.
<havenn> <3 Ruby
<postmodern> drbrain, clearly rubydramas.com needs to stop being run like someone's personal project and publish standards!
<postmodern> *ran
<drbrain> postmodern: clearly
<havenn> Mmm, drama about rubydramas. I like.
<postmodern> drbrain, also I am indignant that rubydramas.com does not provide a HyperMedia API
* postmodern meta-drama
<postmodern> we must go deeper
<havenn> What rubydramas.com needs is to get rid of its GIL or look at migrating to node.js.
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<postmodern> i desire an async websocket feed of all dramas
<postmodern> so i can be alerted immediately
<Spaceghostc2c> hachiya: Which is funny, because they're all about having only one right way to do things. :p
<Spaceghostc2c> Fuck
<Spaceghostc2c> .I mean, darn.
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<drbrain> while I haven't looked inside, I've heard that easy_install and what not are just scrapers that look for special URLs on github and other places
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<drbrain> at least I now know why I'm unlikely to see an easy_update anytime soon
<postmodern> drbrain, go on, i'm interested. Never looked into easy_install or pip much myself
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<postmodern> drbrain, or python eggs, which never seem to have taken off
<drbrain> postmodern: AFAICT, pip and easy_install are slightly different ways of doing the same thing
<drbrain> if you can't write update for one of them I imagine you can't write it for the other, either
<Spaceghostc2c> And wasn't python all about having one way to do things?
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<Elico> Is it possible to passt net/http a socket instead of port and IP ?
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<drbrain> elico: no… why do you want to do that?
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<Elico> drbrain: I am writing a proxy server and it's using TPROXY to be transparent so I need to use the client src IP and port (TPROXY socket) to make it fully transparent.
<drbrain> elico: you can subclass Net::HTTP and override #connect
<Elico> on the server end I have what I need and I can create a dst socket But I want something that built in ruby to handle the HTTP request
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<Elico> Hoo this is it!
<Elico> it will be quite simple
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<Elico> I was looking for this specific point.
<Elico> is there any chance for me to update the class and it will be added into ruby ?
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<drbrain> elico: of course there's a chance, but not for ruby 2.0
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<drbrain> we are in feature freeze
<Elico> Well OK and it can always be an updated version that any can add by themself/
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<Elico> drbrain: I will think for a sec lound.
<Elico> so basically what I will do is: add the connect option for external socket with all the basic checks in it. then make it for the other methods to be able to accept a SOCKET
<Elico> what http does is: init\new -> start -> do_start ->connect ?
<drbrain> Net::HTTP.new does not call #start, but Net::HTTP.start does
<drbrain> start is called elsewhere when needed (by request)
<Elico> Yes that What I meant.
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<drbrain> you should be able to store proxy options when the object is created and use them in #connect, then super
<Elico> OK. thanks
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<Paradox> dear god DNSimple's api is gorgeous
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<Elico> drbrain: if you are still here, I noticed that there is a constant missing from ruby. a constant related to TPROXY. do i file a bug or what?
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<drbrain> elico: which constant?
<Elico> sec
<Elico> setsockopt(Socket::SOL_IP, 19, 1) which suppose to be "IP_TRANSPARENT = 19" .
<drbrain> yes, please file a bug
<drbrain> maybe that one can make it in for ruby 2.0.0
<drbrain> I can't promise that, though
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<Elico> OK. not a thing if it's in or out just funny I was talking about it with someone here couple month ago and it never made it into ruby (1.9.1-3)
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<drbrain> great
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<stardiviner> I found "private" keyword will affect *all* methods bellowing it. Here is the example code: https://gist.github.com/4174139 I want to let "private" only make one method bellowing it private. how to do that ?
<key> is it common to require command line input to a program to surround " " (quotes) with ' ' (single quotes) ?
<rue> key: To require it?
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<key> yea if you don't surround " " in CLI parameters, they get stripped off
<rue> Sometimes you need it for the shell. I like ruby -e '"foo"' for example.
<drbrain> stardiviner: private :method_name
<drbrain> stardiviner: def my_method() end; private :my_method
<key> rue: what caused you to think up that example?
<stardiviner> drbrain: thanks
<rue> Your question
<drbrain> I almost always write ruby -e '…' instead of -e "…"
<key> how did you learn you needed to surrounded " " with ' ' ?
<drbrain> since you can't do string interpolation quite as easily inside ""
<key> drbrain: why?
<key> ahh
<stardiviner> drbrain: Does it same for "protocted" ?
<key> so do you guys pass full programs to ruby with -e ?
<drbrain> stardiviner: yes, and module_function and public
<drbrain> key: is that a trick question?
<drbrain> :D
<stardiviner> drbrain: good
<rue> key: It’s how the shell works…it has its own parsing first
<drbrain> key: since I don't have a proper editor with -e, the full programs I put in there are usually rather short
<rue> And yeah, '' is nicer because then you can interpolate directly with "" inside the program
<drbrain> I've launched WEBrick from ruby -e
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<key> rue, why do you use ' ' and not \ to escape " ?
<drbrain> key: my pinky is too weak
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<key> oh
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<dkannan> hi. was checking "rvm requirements". why does it suggest to install libc6-dev, libtool, pkg-config and ncurses-dev ?
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<postmodern> dkannan, for header files to compile against
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<dkannan> postmodern: which header files ?
<postmodern> dkannan, for ncurses.h and other files in /usr/include/
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<yorickpeterse> Morning
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<yorickpeterse> Ugh, I have way too many filters to filter out bug reports from the ruby-core mailing list
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<imperator> my god, documentation, i likes it
<yorickpeterse> zzak: you deserve a few beers
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<zzak> tracepoint is awesome
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<zzak> please provide feedback on feature #6895! :D
<yorickpeterse> What does tracepoint actually do?
<zzak> it's like set_trace_func
<yorickpeterse> oh neat, so you can now do proper tracing in Ruby?
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<zzak> except a whole class, and it's a little faster
<zzak> yorickpeterse: hopefully!
<yorickpeterse> That would be awesome
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<zzak> imperator: work your windows magic!
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* yorickpeterse shudders at the thought of having to write code for Windows
<zzak> i wouldnt even know where to begin
<imperator> what am i looking at?
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<zzak> latest gems import fails on windows
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<erikh> hi friends
<imperator> romans, countrymen
<erikh> $boss threw this redshift thing at me tonight
<erikh> looks promising
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<imperator> zzak, i don't have the energy
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<banisterfiend> zzak: binding_of_caller wont run on 1.8
<banisterfiend> i think i say that in the README
<banisterfiend> as a result, stack_explorer wont work either
<banisterfiend> pry-rescue *might* work as it only has stack_explorer as an optional dependency, but if it works you wont be able to walk the stack
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<zzak> banisterfiend: it's ok i found it with old debugger
<banisterfiend> zzak: how come u're on 1.8 anyway?
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<zzak> banisterfiend: it was for a legacy app
<banisterfiend> ok
<banisterfiend> yeah a lot of our stuff is 1.9 only, i couldn't figure out how to extract binding_of_caller from the 1.8 code base
<banisterfiend> it was a mess
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<zzak> banisterfiend: yeah, i've been wondering about that debug inspector stuff
<zzak> some of it was committed to debug.h i guess? have you been following?
<zzak> banisterfiend: re: http://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/7214
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<zzak> also, do you know when caller_locations and backtrace_locations were introduced?
<zzak> i will have to bug ko1 later >:)
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<banisterfiend> zzak: yeah i've played with it, it doesn't support proc/lambda/block frames
<banisterfiend> and it segfaults in some situations
<banisterfiend> but it supports method and class/module frames
<banisterfiend> but block frames are important so i'll try to hack it in soon
<zzak> can i see some code? :D
<banisterfiend> my test code or his implementation code?
<zzak> yours, ko1 has committed his implementation right?
<banisterfiend> zzak: i said i'll try to hack it soon, i haven't done it yet. But my binding_of_caller C extension does support block frames, so i can link you that if u want?
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<zzak> banisterfiend: i'm mostly interested in the new debug inspector api, if you're using that sure!
<banisterfiend> zzak: sure
<banisterfiend> zzak: well i can show u how to use it
<banisterfiend> it looks like this:
<banisterfiend> zzak: RubyVM::DebugInspector.open { |inspector| inspector.frame_binding(n) }
<zzak> but i think not all of that has been committed
<banisterfiend> zzak: yeah, that's the branch i'm playing with locally
<zzak> because too close to release
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<banisterfiend> zzak: that code grabs the binding for the nth caller
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<zzak> i think yusuke-san wanted to push it back, then i saw this: https://github.com/ruby/ruby/commit/4db83403982100df21c3c6c18b1cef29dd379e6a
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<zzak> that first was for thread_begin and thread_end in tracepoint api
<banisterfiend> zzak: what branch is that on?
<zzak> trunk
<zzak> both of those are in trunk
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<banisterfiend> ah awesome it's on trunk
<banisterfiend> damn i better take a look at it soon cos it's still a bit broken
<zzak> ohh
<zzak> they are the same..
<banisterfiend> zzak: he didnt commit the ruby wrapper?
<banisterfiend> just the C API, it looks
<zzak> yah
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<zzak> and no tests :)
<zzak> banisterfiend: we gotta help him!
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<zzak> kind of hard to write tests with no wrapper i guess
<banisterfiend> true
<banisterfiend> zzak: they should have a 'future' thing like in python
<banisterfiend> so people can try out experimental features, but hopefully not rely on them
<banisterfiend> or rely on them at their peril
<zzak> banisterfiend: there is going to be an implementor meeting soon to discuss things like that, with the "process"
<judofyr> banisterfiend: that's the way it's usually done in Perl too.
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<judofyr> new features are first implemented as regular modules
<judofyr> (often with a parser-filter or some magic)
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<stardiviner> What's the difference of Hash syntax between Ruby 1.8 and 1.9 ? Or just give me a link ?
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<apeiros_> stardiviner: syntax? {a: "b"} was added
<apeiros_> which is equivalent to {:a => "b"}
<stardiviner> apeiros_: thanks
<apeiros_> other than that, hashes now retain insertion order
<apeiros_> (1.8 is unordered)
<stardiviner> I see. that's all ?
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<apeiros_> all that's important. you may want to check the docs for added methods (especially Enumerable).
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<stardiviner> I will
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<fowl> FUCK THE WORLD!
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<whitequark> what was that
<apeiros_> frustration?
<apeiros_> alcohol?
<apeiros_> rails? :)
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<erikh> fowl's been banned here a few times IIRC
<erikh> pretty epic troll
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<rking> fowl's awesome
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<rking> I think his strategy is to act like a goof all the time so you don't catch wind that he's brilliant.
<rking> (Most people do the opposite)
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<imperator> must be the windmill blades
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<apeiros_> the windmills are closed for today
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<cout> apeiros_: haha
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* erikh wants Range#sample
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<imperator> what fer?
<erikh> ('a'..'z').sample
<chris2> (1..Inf).sample
<erikh> throwing a to_a in the middle works, it's just.. waaah
<erikh> chris2: heh
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<chris2> ;)
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<erikh> heh, it doesn't really change the problem, just moves the call that breaks everything just one method chain up
<erikh> the problem being the entity between the keyboard and chair
<heftig> (1..Float::INFINITY).to_a
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<erikh> hm
<erikh> should be easy to write I guess
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<erikh> .. or not. I guess I should have thought about this a bit more before spouting off
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<banisterfiend> erikh: it would be really slow in the general case i think
<banisterfiend> erikh: cos an object only needs #succ to be used in a range right?
<banisterfiend> in the case of Numeric though
<banisterfiend> you can just go numeric_range.sample #=> rand(self)
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<erikh> banisterfiend: yes, but that's more or less what to_a does
<erikh> the problem that hit me as I was writing it was how to appropriately measure if I have enough randomness for a given range
<chris2> just define rand(Range) ;)
<erikh> haha
<erikh> you're quite the comedian
<chris2> and specialize on numeric
<banisterfiend> chris2: rand(Range) already exists in 1.9.3
<banisterfiend> and i think 1.9.2
<erikh> nah, I'd have to, uh, read stuff
<erikh> well shit
<chris2> >> rand 4..5
<chris2> => 4
<chris2> indeed
<chris2> problem solved
<erikh> no kidding
<erikh> <3 guys
<chris2> >> rand 4.5..5.5
<chris2> => 5.4046283621220566
<erikh> that's pretty hot
<banisterfiend> 1.9.2 had this creepy: Random.new.rand(Range) thing u had to do
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<chris2> >> rand Complex(0,1)..Complex(0,2)
<chris2> ArgumentError: bad value for range
<chris2> hehe :P
<banisterfiend> tahnkfully they ported it back to ordinary rand()
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<erikh> hm
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<erikh> banisterfiend: do you know if it enumerates the set first?
<erikh> I mean, I was getting all giddy looking forward to reading how this works
<erikh> but man, I'm gonna be depressed if it just does that
<banisterfiend> erikh: i very much doubt it
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<erikh> banisterfiend: how does it determine when it's random enough?
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<erikh> I mean, do you know offhand? this is really out of my realm and now I'm really curious
<banisterfiend> erikh: in the case of rand(x..y) im pretty sure it just does: rand(y - x) + x
<erikh> eh? how does that work with non-numeric ranges?
<banisterfiend> erikh: we're talking about rand() right? that wont work on non-numeric ranges
<erikh> oh lord
<erikh> I never bothered to check, I just assumed
* erikh goes back to his hole
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<banisterfiend> anyone here seen "history of the world part 1" by mel brooks??
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<erikh> yes
<erikh> that's where I learned about art critics
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<imperator> banisterfiend, my favorite mel brooks film
<imperator> Empress Nympho: "Bob, oh Bob, do I have any openings which this man might fit?"
<banisterfiend> imperator: hehehe, it's full of one liners like that
<banisterfiend> totally different style of comedy to what's around today
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<imperator> Oedipus: Hey Josephus! Josephus: Hey motherfucker!
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<erikh> mel brooks at the time had a brass pair
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<seydar> with curses, i can set the current cursor position with Curses.setpos
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<seydar> but how do i GET the current cursor position?
<manveru> why you no use ncurses? :)
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<seydar> because i just tried 'gem install ncurses' and it broke. plus curses comes free. plus i literally need to call one function: the mythical Curses.getpos
<manveru> curs_getyx is the c function
<manveru> curses makes that two methods on Curses::Window
<manveru> cury and curx
<manveru> of course, you need a window for that
<seydar> beautiful, thank you
<seydar> is there a curses method for standard window?
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<manveru> not that i can see, there is no window by default
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<seydar> but with ncurses there is, right? am i just making that up?
<manveru> there isn't
<manveru> curses is still using the ncurses lib, just without modern api
<seydar> wait so curses and ncurses in ruby both use the same underlying C library which is called ncurses
<seydar> no fuck it i'm confused
<manveru> it's true :)
<manveru> i use ffi-ncurses btw
<seydar> can you explain the history and differences between curses/ncurses in c and ruby?
<manveru> that might take a while
<manveru> but the gist is that ncurses is backwards-compatible with curses, so nobody bothers to maintain the older one
<manveru> which isn't true for all platforms, but at least on linux
<seydar> so why doesn't ruby ship with ncurses
<drbrain> seydar: and all of that happened around the time you were born
<manveru> ruby ships with a lot of cruft
<erikh> ESR happened IIRC
<erikh> maybe my memory is jumbled
<seydar> everything in the computing world is so old
<erikh> close; I guess he didn't start the project, just maintained it for a while.
<manveru> it's all the fault of the old way of using printers as monitors
<manveru> and all the brilliance in the CS world is now used to convert kittens to ascii
<seydar> well we're all on IRC
<seydar> internet chatrooms from the '80s
<manveru> exactly
<seydar> manveru: Curses.stdscr BOOM
<manveru> we use hipchat at work, and i curse it every day :P
<manveru> nice :)
<seydar> i worked at a place that used irc internally. it was really nice
<erikh> I actually prefer hipchat for work stuff
<erikh> having been that guy who was responsible for the irc server
<erikh> it's logged, it has scrollback replay, rooms have ACLs
<erikh> I mean the rest is just gravy. the scrollback replay is worth it by itself.
<seydar> wait guys, as a group, can we take an oath to refer to errors in ACLs as ACL injuries?
<erikh> that and I never have to help anyone figure out how to set up xchat
<manveru> just hand them grove
<erikh> meh
<manveru> anyway, hipchat handles disconnects really badly, it has no way to adjust font size, it uses AIR, notifications aren't really fine-grained, and the biggest feature they made this year was emoticons :P
<drbrain> I thought you could connect to hipchat via IRC
<erikh> jabber
<erikh> but close enough
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<manveru> their android client crashes every few hours, forgets my login, has trouble switching rooms, and is hard to type in, and cannot use @syntax
<seydar> does anyone still use jabber?
<manveru> google
<erikh> haven't tried yet myself, but one of us here uses it with adium I think
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<manveru> hipchat is built on jabber too
<erikh> I use an iphone and a mac
<manveru> but then you don't get a list of their *enhancements*
<erikh> I have none of these problems with hipchat
<manveru> yeah, you prolly have a stable internet connection too :)
<erikh> there was one issue with animated gifs crashing the client
<erikh> which was hilarious because our bot can dump tons of them at a time into our main room
<manveru> i tried using their web interface, but that's just worse
<erikh> via thecatapi.com
<erikh> the only node.js I've ever written
<erikh> I'd say it was a fitting task
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<erikh> manveru: yeah.
<manveru> the air client i can only use with xzoom because the font is so small
<erikh> fwiw, I liked campfire for a lot of the reasons I like hipchat
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<erikh> but paying $20 for a native client is a compile pile of crap
<erikh> especially because it's really just webkit and some scraping rules
<manveru> they have a native client for linux?
<erikh> there is one
<erikh> but it uses the campfire api
<manveru> don't think i ever used campfire
<erikh> which means it works, in theory. in practice it's useless.
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<erikh> let me see if I can find it though. I used it for a bit.
<manveru> i thought DHH was all "get a mac or get out"
<manveru> yeah, it's in AUR
<erikh> they didn't write the native client
<erikh> some other guy did and charged retarded prices even by mac standards
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<manveru> ('a'..'z').each_with_index.reduce(nil){|s,(v,i)| (rand * (i+1)) < 1 ? v : s }
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<manveru> that might work
<shachaf> Given "each" for some arbitrary structure, there's no reasonable way to create "map" for it, correct?
<manveru> why?
<mistym> shachaf: What do you mean?
<manveru> include Enumerable, done
<manveru> or you mean the output should have the same class?
<shachaf> manveru: How does that work?
<shachaf> I mean the output should have the same shape, yes.
<manveru> def map; out = []; each{|e| out << yield(e) }; out; end
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<shachaf> Right, that's not the same shape. :-)
<manveru> shape?
<shachaf> Getting a list out is easy enough.
<mistym> shachaf: If you define an #each method, then `include Enumerable` in the class, all the other enumerable methods are magically inherited.
<manveru> what planet have you been on?
<shachaf> planet.haskell.org :-(
<manveru> thought so :)
<manveru> anw, you can only do it if you expand your interface requirements
<shachaf> Yes, let's call it "class" for now.
<shachaf> manveru: Expand them to "map", more or less, I assume.
<shachaf> Ruby's map very vaguely ~ Haskell's mapM
<manveru> so you can say, you require #each and ::new, and #<<
<shachaf> I'm not sure how that helps you.
<shachaf> Oh, I see.
<manveru> and then def map; out = self.class.new; each{|e| out << e }; out; end
<shachaf> You're thinking of something along the lines of partsOf in lens.
<manveru> god knows, i never got far with haskell
<shachaf> manveru: I think "map" should be sufficient, since you can define each with map but not vice versa
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<erikh> manveru: is that snippet above intended to solve sampling an arbitrary range?
<manveru> erikh: yeah
<shachaf> In Haskelly terminology, map gives you Traversable and each gives you Foldable.
<manveru> erikh: still iterates once at least
<shachaf> (And nothing gives you Functor -- or, rather, sometimes map gives you Functor and sometimes it doesn't.)
<shachaf> manveru: Did you see my lens thing?
<manveru> i have no idea what a lens is
<erikh> manveru: interesting, but wouldn't that be fairly predictable for any range that has more than 2 elements?
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<manveru> no
<erikh> yeah, I'll need to look at it later when I'm less tired
<manveru> it really works, try it :)
<erikh> my brain has given me the finger for today
<erikh> I believe you
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<erikh> I considered just rand(2) > 1 it but seems like it'd get more predictable as the set got larger
<manveru> shachaf: looks like a matrix
<shachaf> manveru: Matrix?
<shachaf> Oh, because I'm using an array of arrays?
<erikh> anyhow, I should probably learn a bit more about this kind of stuff. Thanks for the code
<shachaf> That's just an accident.
<shachaf> You could have other things than arrays in there.
<shachaf> The idea is that you can compose arbitrary traversing functions of an arbitrary structure.
<shachaf> I should add more examples.
<manveru> yeah, not sure how that's very useful
<shachaf> If you look at the _head examples, though, you can see that it lets you operate on the first element of each subarray.
<shachaf> manveru: Think of what I call "lens" as a reference/lvalue (if you like that term?) to multiple elements within some structure.
<manveru> >> [[1,2,3],[4,5,6]].map{|a| [a[0] + 3, *a[1..-1]] }
<manveru> => [[4, 2, 3], [7, 5, 6]]
<shachaf> For example, foo.lens(:map) just refers to every element of a list; foo.lens(:map, :map) refers to every element of each nested list.
<shachaf> Sure, you can do that.
<manveru> but that wouldn't be as convoluted?
<shachaf> But the nice thing is that this lets you compose arbitrary "lenses".
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<manveru> yeah, i get that
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<manveru> you're trying to bring apl to ruby, and i like that, but i don't think ruby is the best language to use it in
<shachaf> I agree -- Ruby isn't well-suited to this.
<shachaf> (It's not really APL, though.)
<erikh> def lensed_map(func, &block); map { |o| block.call(func.call(o)) }; end ?
<manveru> no, it's too verbose for APL
<shachaf> It's a very nice concept, though, and I was wondering what it would look like in Ruby.
<shachaf> This lets you say things like
<erikh> func = lambda { |x| x[0] }
<shachaf> world.monsters[all].appendages[all].position.x += 1
<erikh> did I understand that right or did I miss something critical?
<shachaf> Well, it might look something like world.lens(:monsters, :map, :appendages, :map, :position, :x) + 1
<shachaf> erikh: ?
<shachaf> I'm not sure what you're doing so I don't know. :-)
<erikh> func = lambda { |x| x.monsters.appendages.position.x } ?
<shachaf> Hmm?
<manveru> nope
<shachaf> Each world has many monsters, each monster has many appendages, each appendage has a position which has x and y
<erikh> it just resolves the sub object and then passes it to map
<erikh> oh, so it inflates the list?
<manveru> it's more like the nested Symnbo#to_proc thing
<shachaf> So you can say world.lens(:monsters, :map, :appendages, :map, :position).to_a to get a list of all the positions
<shachaf> Or world.lens(:monsters, :map, :appendages, :map, :position, :x).to_a to get a list of all the x values
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<manveru> world.map{|w| w.monsters.map{|m| m.appendages.map{|a| a.position }}}.flatten
<erikh> sure, but, uh. how is that better than just typing out what you want?
<shachaf> Alternatively, if you wanted to move each appendage to the right one unit, you could say world.lens(:monsters, :map, :appendages, :map, :position, :x) + 1
<erikh> if I'm reading that right, you have to know where the inflation happens
<manveru> because it has less curly braces :)
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<erikh> ah. sorry. didn't have my rails hat on
<manveru> yeah, never forget that
<manveru> it's a sad world without that hat, dripping with crazy
<shachaf> I hardly mind curly braces. I do mind nesting a bit.
<manveru> ok, then unnest it
<shachaf> And it seems only reasonable to me that to "get" and "set" some values will have the same interface.
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<manveru> oh, github is back, i can work again :)
<erikh> heh
<erikh> you know you can commit without pushing right? :P
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<manveru> i needed to pull