ChanServ changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 1.9.3-p125: http://ruby-lang.org | Paste >3 lines of text on http://pastie.org or use a gist
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<drbrain> ??
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<erikh> mostly I'm looking for a "you've got a race right here" comment
<erikh> I'm pretty green when it comes to this stuff.
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<erikh> it's for provisioning machines
<erikh> where order matters
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<andrewvos> Night night
<erikh> later.
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<erikh> well, I need to clean the house anyhow, perhaps this is a good time for a break.
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<drbrain> erikh: L82 and L83 are suspect
<drbrain> you should probably use a condition variable for that
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<drbrain> the queue checking, too, lines 128 to 138
<drbrain> you may want a non-blocking queue fetch
<drbrain> but, it's hard to spot deadlocks by reading code
<drbrain> or races
<drbrain> cleaning some of those things up might help, though
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<erikh> yeah, I was wondering about the queue stuff in particular
<erikh> that's kind of the meat-and-potatoes of this
<erikh> the problem is that if I schedule for each queue yield I expose other races
<erikh> ... which is why it was written that way
<erikh> anyhow, I really need to clean the house before $wife gets home
<erikh> drbrain: thanks a ton for the review
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<drbrain> erikh: if you have to pre-declare dependencies it might be better to run everything through tsort then run each item in order
<erikh> drbrain: well, this is (get ready to laugh) actually going to be exposed via minitest
<drbrain> you should be able get parallelism by handing off between groups
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<erikh> so tests A B and C all define a certain subset of common dependencies, I want the scheduler to recognize they are already "up" and not tear them down and create them again
<drbrain> ah
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<erikh> I mean, I could re-tsort between each add, I suppose
<drbrain> actually, that shouldn't matter
<drbrain> "foo is already up, move to the next item"
<erikh> right
<erikh> my other concern is tests hanging because someone didn't set up dependencies right
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<erikh> e.g., where tsort would create a split brain more or less
<erikh> I dunno. this is still very immature, I'll give it a think
<drbrain> if you didn't connect your graph properly, then orphaned nodes would start up at the very beginning
<erikh> damnit, why do you have to be so right and stuff
<drbrain> they'd just be treated as roots
<erikh> ok, i'll look at it after I clean up
<drbrain> I can see how orphaned roots could cause problems, though
<drbrain> … but you might be able to detect a failure after processing all the roots
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<zzak> drbrain: you working on rdoc tonight?
<drbrain> yes
<drbrain> I spend about 12 hours yesterday
<zzak> wow, nice
<drbrain> spent
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<zzak> mind reviewing this one for distance recommendations: https://gist.github.com/3961689
<zzak> #45
<zzak> it's not quite complete
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<drbrain> what's the license of the Text gem?
<drbrain> Ruby, then
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<drbrain> zzak: needs cleanup for commented-out stuff, but it looks good otherwise
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<zzak> thanks, i dont think i really got it working right and it still needs some tests
* drbrain nods
<zzak> it was just returning a bunch of classes and methods
<zzak> no real rhyme or reason
<ddd> drbrain: at some time in the near future, would you be willing to review a couple gems I created for plausibility of stated purpose and code quality?
<ddd> (figure the most you can do is ask, and the most that can happen is being told no :) )
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<zzak> drbrain: any suggestions on how to gather everything better?
<drbrain> ddd: I can give it a shot
<zzak> i think part of the problem, its gathering methods, classes, etc separately
<zzak> so you could end up with a few different #each, but no way of knowing what they belong to
<drbrain> zzak: rdoc/generator/json_index.rb does something similar
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<drbrain> zzak: it's got a searchIndex and a longSearchIndex
<drbrain> the former has #name, the latter #full_name
<drbrain> so you could do similarity based on #name, but display #full_name when giving the list
<zzak> nice
<drbrain> … since you'd be working from the ri cache, it might be a little more complicated to make the association than that, since the objects aren't all loaded
<zzak> right
<drbrain> ddd: do you know about codeclimate.com?
<ddd> drbrain: https://github.com/dtf-gems/dtf is the main umbrella gem. and the one mainly needing review. dtf-session is the one I'm currently working on, dtf-rvm is not started. dtf-skeleton is just the base layout repo for future gems going forward. so really its just dtf (which I think i've completed, thus the request for review) and dtf-session is in infancy but could probably be stand a bit of checking.
<ddd> drbrain: yes, and each of those projects has codeclimate pages :)
<drbrain> awesome
<drbrain> ddd: anything in particular you want me to look at?
<drbrain> ddd: randomly poking may not be useful to you
<ddd> drbrain: http://dtf-gems.daviddwdowney.com is the mission statement for what this actually all is. dtf gem is my idea of how to accomplish that. (the 'plausibility of stated purpose checkup). as for the dtf gem itself, if the code looks clean, childish, or of good quality
<ddd> just the first 2 paragraphs on the daviddwdowney.com link are all that really apply. the rest is just project format
<zzak> i wonder if there is a code review community somewhere in rubyland
<drbrain> #mendicant shares code reviews
<zzak> are they still active?
<ddd> basically trying to find people outside of myself to see if i'm accomplishing my goals. *I* can say to myself it looks good, but that doesn't mean anything if no one else can figure out what i'm doing :)
<ddd> zzak: yeah I too wish there were community members that did code reviews. didn't know mendicant did reviews though.
<drbrain> the IRC channel has lurkers
<drbrain> and the mailing list is active too
<ddd> oh cool!
<zzak> ddd: it wasnt long ago people were scheduling office hours to do code reviews
<ddd> even if no one ever actually uses dtf, i figure its a good idea of where my coding skills are, so a review would let *me* know if i've actually learned anything :)
<zzak> you can even setup your own probably
<zzak> theres also that code reading club, but im not sure what they're up to lately
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<zzak> "setup your own probably", meaning a review event with mendicant
<drbrain> ddd: I've always found it difficult to maintain more than one branch
<ddd> zzak: yeah, i'd gladly sign up for that. I'm so unsure of my current skill level that I seriously question my ability to provide listenable advice. thats another reason i'm asking someone i consider of a higher skill level than myself to review
<zzak> your own community would be difficult
<zzak> ddd: thats how you learn
<ddd> yeah exactly. this is what i think i can do. did i do good on what i've done so far, and in either case of yes or no, what can i do to improve it?
<ddd> zzak: I'm one of the members of that, they're reviewing thor right now.
<ddd> its more a lets all look on how this actually works group
<zzak> ddd: sweet, maybe ask them to review your gem?
<zzak> its a possibility at least
<ddd> no, they're more trying to learn known community used apps like sinatra, rails, thor, etc.
<ddd> like an inside look type group
<zzak> i think it wouldnt hurt to ask
<zzak> you might get a few people to help, maybe not the whole group
<ddd> many people don't know where in the actual code that sinatra starts, how it sets itself up, how it then handles requests etc
<ddd> yeah good point
<zzak> worth a shot
<ddd> yep. most they can say is no
<zzak> there are other communities you could ask as well, like reddit
<ddd> drbrain: btw, yes, I know i drastically have to change/improve/fix the test where I'm actually making the system calls in order to generate the help checks. I so just do not have a better idea yet. (Which makes me think my implementation of the overall help system is robably wrong)
<ddd> zzak: I so will not use reddit. to me reddit is a bunch of lets trash everything we can and get upvoted when we do it group
<zzak> ddd: sometimes tho, the best way to learn and get reviews is by contributing to other peoples projects that already have an active community reviewing commits
<drbrain> ddd: can you point me to the code? I haven't encountered it yet
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<ddd> drbrain: the help or the whole project?
<drbrain> ddd: this part: "where I'm actually making the system calls in order to generate the help checks"
<ddd> oh sec
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<ddd> its rspec + turnip for the test
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<ddd> the reason I'm having difficulties finding a different way is because I'm using Trollop for the options and help system.
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<ddd> i haven't figured out how to build a test object without walking through Trollop, and haven't figured out how to walk through Trollop without actually calling it, in order *to* test it
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<zzak> down to 1 page of pull requests!
<ddd> nice :)
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<drbrain> ddd: I'd think for testing help_response you could call OptionParser#parse_cmds directly
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<ddd> lookin
<ddd> g
<drbrain> op = OptionParser.new; op.parse_cmds %w[create_user -h]
<drbrain> ddd: also, line 15 of feature_steps.rb, I prefer @cmds.each |command, expected|
<ddd> ahh, i think i didn't do it that way because initially I was messing with ruby's ARGV directly and then changed it to put it into arg
<ddd> sec
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<ddd> yeah, definitely need to rewrite that. which means i might need to rewrite feature_Steps.rb L9-12 too
<ddd> s/S/s/
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<ddd> least he hasn't said its idiotic, childish, or just purely bad code yet, thats a good sign :)
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<tubbo> hey all..having some trouble installing ffi in my vendored gem directories
<tubbo> like using bundler
<tubbo> i can install vagrant fine with `gem install vagrant`, but using bundler installing ffi craps out
<zzak> tubbo: os? error?
<tubbo> zzak: os x 10.8.2, here's my error: https://gist.github.com/4e253897f986d658bfd5
<tubbo> i'm using 1.9.3-p286 installed from homebrew and bundler to manage my gems
<zzak> you need to install libffi
<tubbo> this is in a chef cookbooks dir, btw
<zzak> homebrew probably
<tubbo> nice :)
<zzak> im on ubuntu, so idk
<zzak> but we have libffi-dev
<zzak> not sure what homebrew has
<tubbo> yeah that seems to work
<ddd> brew search ffi
<drbrain> tubbo: I bet the ruby for `gem` uses GCC, but the `gem` under RVM uses clang
<ddd> i too forget what brew has for that
<ddd> drbrain: only if gcc-4.2 isn't found unless mpapis changed the ordering
<drbrain> ddd: the ^~~~~~ makes me think clang, GCC 4.2 doesn't have those kinds of errors AFAIK
<ddd> we were checking for gcc-4.2 off the hop and if that was found then use that over apple's new clang
<ddd> sec
<tubbo> i am not using rvm actually
<tubbo> (sorry ddd)
<tubbo> just bundler
<drbrain> tubbo: oh, weird
<ddd> tubbo: no need to apologize. I may have been part of the project, but I truly only care that you use what works best for you, not any single specific project.
<ddd> so if rvm isn't it, thats perfectly fine
<tubbo> it certainly was at one time
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<tubbo> but now i don't really need any other versions of ruby
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<tubbo> so i just want to use this one i installed from homebrew all the time, and then manage my gems w/bundler
<ddd> got ya
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<drbrain> tubbo: since that was fixed two years ago, upgrading to a newer FFI should fix your problem
<tubbo> hm, it's trying to load 0.6.3
<tubbo> pretty old version
<ddd> drbrain: were those few things mentioned about those feature lines the only thing you found 'off', or you still reviewing?
<tubbo> alright there we go. had to force it @ 1.1.5
<drbrain> ddd: I don't see a bunch of other stuff that stands out
<drbrain> on code climate you don't have anything below a C which is much better than rdoc or rubygems
<drbrain> ddd: so, code wise, I don't see anything particularly wrong
<tubbo> ugh, now it can't load vagrant/cli
<tubbo> god dammit
<tubbo> chef is so hard
<drbrain> tubbo: maybe the latest 0.x ffi would do it
<ddd> cool. thank you for looking at it. you say nothing particularly wrong code wise. what do you think of the idea for its existence?
<tubbo> this doesn't seem like an ffi problem
<tubbo> ffi compiles now
<drbrain> ddd: I like minitest, so I'm biased
<ddd> got it :)
<tubbo> i like minitest too but sometimes it's so hard to get it set up the way i want
<erikh> drbrain: sorry for the late reply; this seems pretty stable so I think I'm just going to stick with it and flush out the rest of the interface for now
<zzak> i think the age of the weekly new testing frameworks in ruby is past and most people stick with their guns
<erikh> if there's breakage, I'll patch in the tsort stuff post-hoc
<tubbo> compared to rspec
<ddd> thanks for looking at it. least now i know the code itself is quality, and the implementation is decent, regardless of thoughts about the reasons for its existence. i needed an outside influence before i allowed myself to believe it was of quality value (the code)
<tubbo> zzak: thank GOD. we really don't need more than 2
<erikh> options are always good
<tubbo> true
<zzak> yes but there was that time when there was a new framework every week it seemed like
<erikh> even if those options aren't popular, sometimes they bring ideas to the table that are really good, and get integrated into other systems
<erikh> zzak: my aching hard disk
<drbrain> erikh: yup!
<erikh> so many 200 line files. what's a brother to do?
<zzak> its good tho
<zzak> sometimes if you have to work on legacy code
<zzak> there were frameworks that were great then, just arent active anymore
<drbrain> erikh: my average line count in rdoc is 513
<tubbo> i think a while back there wasn't as big of a testing scope as there is now
<tubbo> like when i started with rails no one was doing Selenium or regression testing
<tubbo> there was no capybara (just webrat)
<drbrain> sorry, missed markdown.rb, with markdown.rb, 843
<drbrain> … which is 16367 lines by itself
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<erikh> drbrain: clearly rdoc is bad software
<drbrain> clearly
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<zzak> -1 i keep separate handcrafted powerpoint presentations on every class i write
<ddd> and you write those presentations in ed right?
<jashank> o_O
<zzak> ddd: actually they start out as pdf's then i use an online converter i found using google
<zzak> its way better than rdoc could ever hope to be
<erikh> yay, it's marshalling state between runs now
<erikh> !!
<erikh> I can start them all up in one run, and trash all them in the next
<ddd> zzak: awesome! now you just need to refactor! :)
<zzak> eek, i just murdered yutaka's name
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<zzak> drbrain: there's a few tickets for keiju, but they haven't been online for over a year..
<drbrain> zzak: nice
<zzak> should i reassign them?
<zzak> (just tickets from github)
<drbrain> I'd just put a ping on them
<zzak> already done
<drbrain> they'll probably get taken care of in the next week or so
<zzak> for existing tickets in redmine, ive uploaded patches from github and closed pull request, reassigned if necessary
<zzak> only 20 pull requests left
<zzak> marc-andre and luis are helping too! :D
<zzak> go go ruby core!
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<drbrain> zzak: yeah, I think that's a perfect way to go about it
<zzak> drbrain: is someone reviewing 1.8.7 tickets?
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<drbrain> zzak: if it's not a security fix it'll be rejected
<zzak> ok, im willing to be security patch release time all those will get reviewed
<zzak> willing to bet*
<drbrain> zzak: there's some boilerplate around that you can close those tickets with if you want to go through them, but make sure they're fixed in trunk
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<zzak> i think ill leave that up to 1.8.7 maintainer, redmine says knu or shyouhei
<drbrain> ok
<zzak> they will probably see these tickets at somepoint
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<zzak> drbrain: what the heck is this? https://github.com/ruby/ruby/pull/177 haha
<drbrain> I think nobu polluted his branch
<drbrain> I'm not really sure why nobu makes pull requests
<zzak> there've been a few commits to that file
<drbrain> I forgot to ask him
<zzak> ill just ping him, if anything it will be the last pull request open and someone should see it
<drbrain> I bet it was a mistake
<zzak> too much sake
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<ghanima> I was wondering if I can ask your opinion... I am working with an HTML table I have pulled from nokogiri. The table is nested and classified in 3 ways. What I am trying to do is organize the results were each classification is in its own array(i think)... example [class1[entry0][element1, element2, element3]]
<ghanima> is this the right apporach
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<zzak> woo, down to 2 open pull requests, that nobu 1 and a net/http patch in progress
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<drbrain> ghanima: I think { class1 => { entry0 => [elements] } } might be better (Hashes as the outer containers)
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<drbrain> ghanima: at least, if class1 and entry0 are names
<ghanima> drbrain: thanks man that helps
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<zzak> drbrain: is feedback considered 100%?
<drbrain> on bugs.ruby-lang.org? no
<drbrain> it means "if you don't respond in the next month or so it might get closed'
<zzak> hmm i wonder how this got put at 100% https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/6596
<zzak> but noone changed it to 100%
<zzak> maybe OP did
<drbrain> maybe, I haven't seen many committers use % Done
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<zzak> same
<zzak> i wonder if ruby doesn't need a CONTRIBUTING file for github pull requests, that encourages people to open tickets on redmine
<rohit> Github should allow you to disable PR's for your repo
<drbrain> rohit: ruby/ruby doesn't want to
<zzak> yeh, PR's are good entry for new people
<zzak> but redmine is preferred, as most committers dont monitor both
<zzak> redmine just isn't very user-friendly
<zzak> also, 5 hours later ive reviewed all the open pull-requests.. that took forever..
<rohit> But pull requests aren't really looked at are they? I mean they aren't merged as-is. They are converted to diffs and posted on bugs.ruby-lang.org or committed manually by a ruby core member right?
<zzak> right
<zzak> they're good for discussion, and new people
<zzak> there are committers who monitor pull requests and give feedback
<rohit> This has probably been discussed before but just out of curiosity why isn't there a separate list for ruby-core discussions and ruby-issues? Having each comment on a ruby issue delivered as part of the ruby-core mailing list can be quite overwhelming :)
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<drbrain> rohit: there's ruby-talk for general discussion
<zzak> there is ruby-talk
<drbrain> but I rather like the tight integration between bugs.ruby-lang.org and the mailing list
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<zzak> ditto
<drbrain> it's easier to track progress when the discussion of a feature is tied to an issue
<zzak> ruby-core notifications are just enough activity for me, any more and i go crazy, and any less and im bored
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<rohit> Not talking about ruby-talk. Talking about separating the tight integration. I guess it's a good thing for those involved regularly with ruby internals :)
<zzak> drbrain: ive been meaning to sign up for ruby-cvs
<drbrain> zzak: I only occasionally read it
<zzak> just for private discussion
<zzak> ive gotten replies to my commits before
<drbrain> when I need to figure out what happened it's much more useful than svn or git history
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<zzak> yeah
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<zzak> the cvs mailing list must be tied to the ChangeLog well
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<zzak> at least links committer email properly
<zzak> because people have replied directly to commits ive made
<rohit> Sorry for asking naive questions but are there any plans to migrate Ruby from svn to git soon?
<drbrain> rohit: it's been discussed a few times, but no plans at present
<rohit> drbrain, ok, thanks :)
<VGoff> Is it because you can use git for doing doing things with CVS? So the urgency doesn't seem to be there, if there would be any urgency at all?
<drbrain> VGoff: there's at least one committer that can't use git properly on windows
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<VGoff> I deal with people on Windows constantly, so I know how that is.
<rohit> Ruby committers work on windows? Cool. Last month at the local user group meetup, there were a few students so we started an ad-hoc walkthrough Ruby and they started downloading Ruby for Windows installer and I'm like OMG things are going to break but it worked perfectly well :) (I'm boxed in linux world)
<erikh> rohit: tell luis lavena thank you
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<erikh> he's responsible for a good healthy chunk of the work, and probably doesn't hear it as much as he should
<rohit> erikh, Luis is on twitter? :)
<erikh> yes, @luislavena IIRC
<zzak> <luis3
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<swarley> zenspider; Would you happen to be here?
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<VGoff> 2013 Ruby Brit-conf cancelled.. that is sad.
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<yorickpeterse> Morning
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<rolfb> morning
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<hakunin> Curious if there are simple ways of taking the stderr output of some "shelled-out" command and turning it into a ruby exception. Or does it have to be done manually?
<yorickpeterse> Ruby expression as in?
<hakunin> yorickpeterse: exception
<yorickpeterse> Oh, I read expression
<yorickpeterse> err, you could use Open3 for this
<hakunin> so manually :)
<yorickpeterse> yes
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<hakunin> i was imagining something akin to system (which returns false on non-zero exit) but with extra sauce for taking the external error more "personally"
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<hakunin> might be a good microgem idea, i have a whole bunch of them piling up from this thing i'm working on. thin image_magick dsl with convenient piping, lazy tempfiles, and now irritable shell-outs :)
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<hakunin> thin, lazy, and irritable... fun bunch
<hakunin> all good things in programs, bad in humans
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<erikh> I thought about adding | to String and IO to emulate piping
<erikh> never really got around to it
<hakunin> erikh: i think there' a project that does it
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<erikh> neat
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<hakunin> in my case i meant specifically piping for imagemagick, with a piping syntax that looks nicer with blocks
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<hakunin> piped(to: path) { convert {…}; compose {…} }
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<erikh> doesn't RMagick have a queue language?
<erikh> err, queue system
<erikh> been a while since I've had to deal with it
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<hakunin> erikh: these bloated libs are more trouble than they're worth imo. I wrote a tiny wrapper that assembles strings via a thin block-based dsl, it reads and works great.
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<hakunin> for my purpose of creating complex imagemagick-based renderers it works wonders for readability, yet relatability to IM cli
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<erikh> dunno, I found that there's a pretty significant performance difference between telling magick to run all these things sequentially at once and then shit out an image, then having it shit out an image between each step
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<erikh> holy wow, it's almost 2am
<andrewvos> erikh: You never leave
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<hakunin> erikh: that's a serious concern. will have to address it. as of now, way too much actual IM functionality to write, and learning how to jam things on one command is a pain, can't afford just yet...
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<yorickpeterse> whitequark: I owe you a beer. That little suggestion of you to write a helper for generating AST nodes (the `s(:string, 'foo')` bit may have just saved me a day or two worth of work
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: hehe. you're welcome :)
<whitequark> I think I maybe should pull it to Furnace
<yorickpeterse> I ended up adding `def s(type, *children); return RubyLint::Node.new(type, *children); end`. It's simple but surprisingly effective
<yorickpeterse> errr
<yorickpeterse> that last children should be without the *
<whitequark> my one currently looks like this: s[:send, [:symbol, :foo], [:string, "bar"]]
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<yorickpeterse> Wouldn't that require two separate method definitions?
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<whitequark> yeah yeah, it returns a temporary object extended with []
<yorickpeterse> one for `s` and one for `s#[]`
<yorickpeterse> ah
<whitequark> now that I think about it, your variant might actually be better, because with my one it's impossible to add an array inside
<erikh> andrewvos: I've just been working on this problem all day
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<erikh> about to pack it up now though
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<andrewvos> erikh: :(
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: I also added a small helper for parsing code, that combined with the s() method greatly reduced the amount of code
<yorickpeterse> I was pretty satisfied with myself last night
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<whitequark> (also I can now publish recent docs to github. yay!)
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<zenspider> yorickpeterse: have you looked at ruby_parser and sexp_processor?
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<zenspider> I've been defining s(type, *stuff) for ages and ages
<yorickpeterse> zenspider: yes
<yorickpeterse> Sadly Ripper is the only decent parser atm where I don't have to spend time making the parser itself work with new Ruby syntax features and the likes
<yorickpeterse> Having said that I haven't spent a whole lot of time looking at ruby_parser
<zenspider> yorickpeterse: how so?
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: does this support arrays as arguments?
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: indeed
<yorickpeterse> nice
<whitequark> library code should not needlessly restrict users
<zenspider> ripper is also not decent for many of the reasons that whitequark has pointed out.
<whitequark> even if I don't use a certain feature, that doesn't mean nobody can
<zenspider> ruby19 -rripper -rpp -e "pp Ripper.sexp \"I'm a little teapot\""
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<yorickpeterse> zenspider: Yes, Ripper has quite a few downsides and I don't plan on using it forever. However, for the time being it saves me quite a bit of time as I don't have to worry about it support syntax feature X
<yorickpeterse> Nor do I have to wait for developer X to implement it
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<yorickpeterse> If I want to support jruby/rbx for my linter I'll have to move away but I haven't really found something that works cross platform and isn't slow as shit
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<yorickpeterse> I also *require* line numbers to be correct, though ironically Ripper gets this wrong sometimes as well
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: I should point out that I use ruby_parser while developing a Ruby implementation and it's indeed good enough for that
<zenspider> slow as shit. thanks.
<whitequark> well, if "2x slower than MRI" is "slow as shit" then you are probably using the wrong language :)
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<zenspider> well... assuming you make something people want to use.... things like metric-fu and code climate all want to use these tools in the same process. don't overlap with my #s
<yorickpeterse> zenspider: that wasn't directly targeted at ruby_parser
<yorickpeterse> it's just a general requirement I have
<zenspider> just indirectly
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: Hmm
<whitequark> zenspider: my one should be explicitly included as a module. I don't pollute global namespace
<yorickpeterse> Wait, ruby_parser's s() is global?
<whitequark> yup
<zenspider> sure is
<whitequark> I dislike that
<yorickpeterse> Hrmpf, that's a bit of a no-no
<yorickpeterse> For tests it's fine but outside of that I'm not too happy with that
<yorickpeterse> I suppose that if I'm going to rewrite this AST I might as well look at ruby_parser
<yorickpeterse> zenspider: does ruby_parser work on rbx/jruby?
<zenspider> of course
<zenspider> rbx used to use ruby_parser as its parser
<yorickpeterse> Does it handle the Ruby 2.0 named parameters, or are there any plans for it?
<whitequark> zenspider: wait what?!
<whitequark> that's kind of nice, but why did they abandon it?
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<zenspider> whitequark / yorickpeterse : I don't care if you don't like it... you're about 8-9 years late to the game on this
<yorickpeterse> Eh?
<zenspider> whitequark: I can't answer your question.
<zenspider> 8
<zenspider> and ... 10 days :P
<zenspider> wow... that's an old project
<yorickpeterse> Ruby19Parser.new.parse('Foo::Bar') # => s(:colon2, s(:const, :Foo), :Bar)
<yorickpeterse> Any reason for that not being s(:const, :Foo), s(:const, :Bar)?
<yorickpeterse> Last I need is more inconsistency in the output, Ripper already has plenty of that
<zenspider> yorickpeterse: I don't support ruby 2.0 yet. it's not even finalized. I'll support it when someone contributes it or when I get around to it, but I won't get around to it before it is final
<whitequark> zenspider: I'd have appreciated that reply in the issue I have created.
<zenspider> that's not inconsistent, that's what ruby is doing internally.
<zenspider> Foo::Bar isn't 2 consts sitting next to each other.
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: yeah, you're misunderstanding how ASTs work here
<zenspider> Foo; Bar is
<whitequark> the nesting is inherent
<whitequark> think of how a naïve, AST-walking interpreter could evaluate that expression
<zenspider> and don't use Ruby19Parser unless you have good reason to
<yorickpeterse> Hm
<zenspider> Ruby19Parser.new.parse('Foo::Bar') != Ruby19Parser.new.parse('Foo; Bar')
<yorickpeterse> Does the RubyParser class itself support 1.9 syntax features?
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<yorickpeterse> whitequark: thing is, Ripper does return it like that
<whitequark> zenspider: plain RubyParser does not export the .env hash
<yorickpeterse> maybe Ripper is just wrong though
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: then it's a bug in Rupper
<whitequark> *Ripper
<zenspider> whitequark: file a ticket pls
<zenspider> or wait... you're not expecting it to work across, are you?
<zenspider> tho... that may be doable
<zenspider> it could have bad repercussions ... I'll have to mull
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<whitequark> zenspider: personally I don't care about 1.8 at all
<zenspider> no, that's NOT what it is returning.... read it again
<whitequark> so I just use Ruby19Parser and it's fine
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: Ripper is indeed correct, it basically returns the same nested structure
<whitequark> the semantics is identical, the presentation differs a bit
<zenspider> well... it differs painfully :P
<zenspider> so many [['s in ripper... :(
<yorickpeterse> The structure is different, what I meant was why RubyParser doesn't return another s() for the second segment
<yorickpeterse> instead it just returns a symbol itself
<yorickpeterse> which strips out the column number for it, which is useful for analysis
<whitequark> Foo:: \\\nBar ?
<whitequark> err
<yorickpeterse> RubyParser.new.parse('Foo::Bar')[2].class # => Symbol
<whitequark> technically you can write that, but I doubt it's actually useful
<yorickpeterse> I expected that to be a Sexp
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<yorickpeterse> The reason I'd want that is so that you actually have the column number available when checking if that particular part of the path exists
<yorickpeterse> So you can say something like "Undefined constant Bar at column 6"
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: RP does not report column numbers at all
<yorickpeterse> oh?
<yorickpeterse> Well, there goes my reason to use it :)
<zenspider> this is beyond annoying. have fun with that.
<zenspider> later
<yorickpeterse> zenspider: you're not particulary open to other people's opinions/discoveries are you?
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<zenspider> oh... is THAT what this is? huh...
<yorickpeterse> and I think you just prove my point. Either way, as nice as ruby_parser looks I'm afraid I won't be using it if it doesn't contain any information on column numbers since I have to have that information available.
<yorickpeterse> There's no point in saying "Undefined variable foo on line 1, column 0" when it's on column 246
<yorickpeterse> Might as well say "Undefined variable somewhere but I don't know where"
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<whitequark> he has a point. I'd like to see column numbers as well, but I'm for some reason afraid that this won't happen in foreseeable future.
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<yorickpeterse> whitequark: did your melbourne patch ever got accepted?
<yorickpeterse> * get
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: it is "delayed"
<yorickpeterse> Oh?
<whitequark> which, as far as I understand it, means that the author doesn't give a fuck.
<whitequark> maybe I should just publish it as a gem with some new name.
<yorickpeterse> Any particular reason they delayed it?
* whitequark wonders why github is so slow, as well as the rest of overseas internet
<yorickpeterse> heh
<yorickpeterse> That particular repo hasn't been updated for a year
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<whitequark> from a quick peek at the diff, he has missed some important parts I've handled
<whitequark> but honestly I don't care about that enough to waste time convincing anyone
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<yorickpeterse> Hrm, Melbourne is written in C++
<yorickpeterse> Meaning it probably won't work very well on jruby
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<yorickpeterse> Bah, I think I'll just end up writing a wrapper around Ripper/<insert implementation parser here>
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<yorickpeterse> Right at the first reason I lost interest
<yorickpeterse> Calling PHP mature is as stupid as saying the color of grass is pink
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<yorickpeterse> "Ruby doesn’t work well on Windows" trololol
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<charliesome> does anyone know if there's a c extension out there that exposes a method that will segfault ruby?
<charliesome> like Segfault.boom!
<yorickpeterse> I doubt you can detect that before running it
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<charliesome> i mean - a c ext with the sole purpose of causing a segfault
<yorickpeterse> Aah
<yorickpeterse> err
<banisterfiend> charliesome: NeverSayDie has one
<charliesome> blegh it installs its own segfault handler
<charliesome> may as well write my own
<yorickpeterse> durrr Ruby errors http://rubydoc.info/gems/neversaydie/1.0.0/frames
<banisterfiend> charliesome: u dont have t use it...i assume u just want the function that generates the segfault, so just use that
<banisterfiend> charliesome: however it's easy to write a segfaulting function, just use ruby_inline
<charliesome> banisterfiend: it sets up the handler in Init_neversaydie
<charliesome> ah yeah good point!
<charliesome> forgot about ruby_inline
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: ... wherein I implement another language just to explain how to use a 20 LOC class
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<yorickpeterse> whitequark: eh, that's re: what?
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<yorickpeterse> Oh, related to a wrapper for various parsers?
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<yorickpeterse> That seems to still require your s-expression nodes to be passed to it, which is something that isn't returned by the various parsers
<yorickpeterse> So you'd still have to write something that passes these expressions to such a processor, unless I'm missing something
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: meh, no
<whitequark> it's an explanation of how you're supposed to use Processor
<yorickpeterse> Ah
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<banisterfiend> whitequark: have ou looked at redparse?
<banisterfiend> whitequark: what's your opinion of it?
<banisterfiend> whitequark: https://github.com/coatl/redparse
<whitequark> banisterfiend: uhh, I dislike almost everything about it
<banisterfiend> y
<whitequark> the node format in particular. This is opinionated, through, so you might think different about it
<whitequark> what's not opinionated is things that a lot of parser writers don't get right: speed and error recovery
<whitequark> I see neither there.
<banisterfiend> whitequark: bugt it's currently the only pure ruby parser that can reliably parse all 1.9 code, no?
<banisterfiend> but*
<whitequark> banisterfiend: I'm fine with 98.7% (or how much zenspider has) and actually understandable source code
<whitequark> I don't get why everyone hates yacc.
<whitequark> yacc/racc is pretty much the only way to make a high-performance parser in Ruby
<whitequark> parslet? treetop? pft. slow as shit, and also memory hogs.
<whitequark> I've gone through every single parsing library and they're all cool, as in hipster cool, and also absolutely unusable when you need to parse megabytes of text.
<whitequark> look at the code it generates
<whitequark> if @@ref_83===@stack.last #RubyLexer::KeywordToken & -{, :ident=>/^(when|else|end)$/, , , }
<whitequark> WAT
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<yorickpeterse> I think that's auto generated, though even then it's shit
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: obviously it is
<whitequark> still, racc auto-generates pretty sensible code.
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<whitequark> and that thing above is basically the same, but much less prettier.
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<zzak> good morning!
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<zzak> whitequark: have you used racc much?
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<whitequark> zzak: yes
<whitequark> both racc and other parsers, yes. mainly treetop from the PEG camp, but they're pretty much all the same.
<whitequark> I've used racc with ragel-generated lexer btw.
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<zzak> whitequark: do you know anything about the racc parser debugging methods? ie: racc_shift, racc_reduce, racc_accept, racc_e_pop, racc_next_state, etc etc
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<mixandgo> hello, is there a better way of doing this ? https://gist.github.com/9874bd7416c16005f0c6
<mixandgo> I mean the "self.class.parse(v)" part
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<methods> why do you want the parse method ?
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<mixandgo> methods: it's doing some calculations on the value
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<mixandgo> methods: I was wondering if there is a better way to reference the class method or if it should be defined differently
<zzak> whitequark: i'd like to get a patch together to better explain debugging with racc, would you want to help?
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<methods> you could do something like @options = {} and then @options[k]=v instead of instance_variable_set .. or if you didn't have to parse you could just @options = { some defaults }.merge( args.first ) if you want
<whitequark> zzak: sure! correctly using these methods could provide valuable features, e.g. not only "unexpected tWHATEVER" but "unexpected tWHATEVER, expecting tCOLON2 or tCOMMA"
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<methods> mixandgo: I'm not sure
<whitequark> racc is actually a very simple finite state machine
<whitequark> zzak: the inner workings of that machine are explained in the Bison docs
<whitequark> have you read it?
<zzak> i have them bookmarked, but not read through them yet
<kaliya> Hi. I installed MRI 1.9.3 through RVM on a new Debian system and cucumber 1.2.1. When I run cucumber on a .feature with no step definitions, the output doesn't show me the usual tips on how to create steps... Uhh I'm wandering what I could have done wrong. Tips? TIA :)
<whitequark> zzak: highly recommend
<whitequark> in fact I wasn't able to write working code for racc until I read them
<whitequark> there is some really tricky stuff with S/R and R/R conflicts
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<zzak> that'd probably help, eh?
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<whitequark> zzak: yup
<whitequark> zzak: what I'd want to see myself in racc is some refactoring
<whitequark> the code is really really ancient
<zzak> that is very true
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<whitequark> unfortunately I'm probably not up to this task :(
<zzak> the 1-4-stable branch is where development has been taking place, if you change your mind
<whitequark> if you could do that, it'd be great. I think I could help with the internals and probably write better documentation.
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<zzak> on github/tenderlove/racc
<zzak> whitequark: i've mostly just worked on the parser docs
<whitequark> zzak: I've seen the diffs, nice!
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<whitequark> ah, NotImplementError
<whitequark> I'd say that this should just be removed, along with tons of similar code...
<zzak> i think older versions of ruby didn't have that error haha
<whitequark> older than 2003?
<zzak> mostly agree, but there are some historical/social concerns
<zzak> something like that
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<whitequark> oh, you've spent way more time with Ruby than I did...
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<zzak> whitequark: drbrain is a great mentor, thats all
<zzak> he was the one who pointed that stuff out
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<zzak> but there is a certain level of respected deserved to the stdlib
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<zzak> i think as time goes on, and stdlib is gemified, that will change
<zzak> it will be easier to refactor and contribute to these gems
<Paradox> ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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<whitequark> zzak: indeed
<zzak> whitequark: when i start reading up on the bison docs, ill try to get a doc patch together re: debugging and ping you for a review :)
<whitequark> zzak: thanks! I'll certainly do that
<whitequark> unless some other things in stdlib *wink*cgi*wink*, racc doesn't have a replacement with feature parity
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<zzak> there is a maintainer of cgi, racc has no maintainer atm, although tenderlove might be closest thing
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<zzak> its very hard to get a library in stdlib, even harder to replace one.. again history/social
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<whitequark> imo we need *less* stuff in stdlib, not more.
<whitequark> definitely not SOAP, for example.
<whitequark> thankfully it was evicted in 1.9 transition or something like that
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<whitequark> otoh I'm not sure why ruby-debug is a gem. it certainly should have been placed in stdlib.
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<tockitj_> whitequark, also more documentation :)
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<whitequark> wait, do we have _three_ option parsing libs?
<whitequark> getopt, getoptlong and optparse?
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<soahccc> Is there a autoloader library available for ruby? I've made one but it has a annoying issue which I can't resolve
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<Rhawb> Hello. I was wondering if it was possible to overload the "=" operator. My reading has told me no, but I was hoping it was somehow possible.
<whitequark> soahccc: Kernel#autoload
<whitequark> Rhawb: there is no = operator
<soahccc> whitequark: This is lazyloading no autoloading
<soahccc> Rhawb: You can define setter methods but generally overriding = isn't possible I think
<whitequark> soahccc: define autoloading then
<whitequark> Dir["lib/**/*.rb"] { |it| require it } ?
<whitequark> *Dir[].each
<Rhawb> Thank you. That is what I had concluded as well. And what do you mean = is not an operator. Isn't it an assignment operator? Or do you just mean its technically a method?
<soahccc> whitequark: This is my approach. The comment describes the problem: https://gist.github.com/6476e2b313d192442a8c
<soahccc> More or less what Rails is capable of. I couldn't find a standalone version though
<soahccc> Rhawb: Model.property = "foo" will call Model#property=
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<jtoy> how would you guys process the lines in a large file in groups, the file typically has 300k+ lines ? I basically want to do File.open(path).each_slice(100).{|lines| ……. }
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<zzak> whitequark: words
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<jtoy> any ideas?
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<soahccc> jtoy: I only know that you can load a file line_by_line or a specific amount of data (in bytes)... Or reading the whole file into memory
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<GertThiel> Hoi Hoi. Anyone present how knows about using Tidy-FFI w/ UTF-8 encoded strings?
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<jtoy> i tested it with a large file, it works anyway
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<matti> ;]
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<zzak> jtoy: read it in chunks
<jtoy> zzak thats what File.open(file).each_slice(number){|slice| …} seems to do
<jtoy> i created a 10,000,000 line file then processed it and the size of the ruby process didn't seem to go up
<zzak> jtoy: checkout IO#read, it takes a buffer length
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<drbrain> whitequark: I think we used to have four option parsing libs
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<chris2> certainly more than that
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<drbrain> chris2: I mean, in stdlib
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<chris2> i only remember 2. well, 3 with -s
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<chris2> hm, getopts vs getoptlong
<eam> optparse
<chris2> and optparse, yes
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<soahccc> Is it somehow possible to get the "full" constant name when undefined? I'm afraid that it is not because everything is an object and therefore in Foo::Bar Bar needs Foo defined already... I despair!
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<soahccc> DESPAIR! :D
<zzak> drbrain: yusuke-san asked me to commit non-documentation related patch D:
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<drbrain> zzak: it's fine
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: oh look at that, seems it's actually happening
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* zzak panics
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: yeah.
<whitequark> I think we are really lucky in that matz is really open-minded here.
<whitequark> I could very well see that ending way worse.
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<yorickpeterse> I doubt matz ever was, or ever will be, the problem itself
<yorickpeterse> I think he, and the rest of the team, are just a bit unsure about how to handle things
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: exactly.
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<mars777> hello
<mars777> Need help with collected and ruby.
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<mars777> If you have used both before, please let me know.
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<yorickpeterse> Just ask your question already
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<mars777> This is a general question, how do I pass values from collected to ruby, and ruby to collected?
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<seydar> Mon_Ouie: syn
<Mon_Ouie> syn?
<seydar> you say ack
<seydar> i have a question aboot coolline
<seydar> i'm trying to redefine word_boundary?
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<seydar> Coolline::Editor#word_boundary?
<seydar> but when i do, it doesn't get seen
<seydar> like, if i put `puts "hello"`, it doesn't print.
<Mon_Ouie> Because it's not in in Editor, but in Coolline
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<apeiros_> Coolline something like Editline?
<apeiros_> or rather like Highline?
<Mon_Ouie> Oh, it's in both, but the one in Coolline has precedence
<Mon_Ouie> apeiros_: Kind of like Readline, with coloring, etc.
<apeiros_> kk
<Mon_Ouie> (I get live syntax highlighting in Pry with it)
<apeiros_> nice
<drbrain> um, what does this do: /^(.{8}*?)
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<apeiros_> break with a syntax error!
<drbrain> I forgot the trailing /
<apeiros_> hm, {8}*? - interesting
<apeiros_> that's a valid quantifier?
<drbrain> macruby has a compile error on that regexp, the *? confuses it
<seydar> Mon_Ouie: because it's included in Coolline, I have to modify the definition in Coolline? ok, that makes sense
<drbrain> yes!
<seydar> drbrain: is it trying to get some character repeated in multiples of 8?
<apeiros_> I'd have to look it up in my mastering regular expressions, but I doubt that this is valid
<drbrain> seydar: yes, RDoc's expand_tabs uses it, the full regexp is: (/^(.{0,8}*?)([^\t\r\n]{0,7})\t/
<drbrain> apeiros_: me too, but removing the *? causes the implementation to change
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<drbrain> so it's doing *something*
<apeiros_> it might turn it non-greedy
<apeiros_> but that makes little sense with {8}
<drbrain> yeah
<apeiros_> I mean, how can {8} be non-greedy? o0
* apeiros_ tests something
<apeiros_> seems {8}? is optional
<apeiros_> so *? might be greedy optional
<apeiros_> but honestly don't know
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<apeiros_> get mastering regular expressions. it's great. contains stuff like that.
<drbrain> I figured it might turn .{8} optional
<drbrain> as if there were an implied () around it
<Mon_Ouie> Maybe .{8}*? means any amount of groups of 8 characters, non-greedy?
<drbrain> if I change it to ((?:.{8})*?) my tests still pass
<drbrain> and macruby stops complaining
<erikh> 8 characters, match 0 or more times, non-greedy
<banisterfiend> Mon_Ouie: can you write me a regex
<drbrain> erikh: yeah
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<Mon_Ouie> banisterfiend: What are you trying to match?
<mars777> If anybody knows how to pass values from collected to ruby , and from ruby to collect d, or something like that please message me.
<banisterfiend> Mon_Ouie: pipe implementation currently using this: PIPE = /(?<=[^'"])(?<=.)*?\|(?=.*)(?<=[^'"])/
<banisterfiend> Mon_Ouie: it breaks up a command line into separate commands, but is careful not to confuse "' |" or '|' for a pipe
<banisterfiend> Mon_Ouie: but i want to allow this structure too: command1 arg | command2 arg | { |a| a.ruby! } | command3 arg
<banisterfiend> Mon_Ouie: so i want to be able to interpolate blocks into the pipe chain
<banisterfiend> so i need to support { |a| } (where |a| can exist or not, and have multiple args, like ordinary blocks)
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<Mon_Ouie> I wouldn't use a regex for that (not for all of it, at least)
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<banisterfiend> Mon_Ouie: well aside from the { |a| } syntax it's an enough easy regex, so it's a pity if i have to change the whole strategy just to support { |a| }, but you're saying i should write a proper parser ?
<Mon_Ouie> The parsing part wouldn't do much really, mostly a tokenizer (and inserting a Ruby tokenizer in between)
<Mon_Ouie> If you allow curly braces to be used within the block, a regexp won't be able to detect the end correctly
<bougyman> because you cannot arbitrarily match nested group tags with regexp.
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<bougyman> but you can with oniguruma
<Mon_Ouie> (Well, Oniguruma can do that, but it would be *very* ugly)
<bougyman> hahah
<bougyman> exactly.
<bougyman> and very inefficient.
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<banisterfiend> Mon_Ouie: ah ok, so i can find the location of the first '{' and then process that string until i have a complete ruby expression, then from that point go back to the normal split on |
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<Mon_Ouie> Yes, though I'd rather try to only detect '{' immediately after '|' (except for whitespace)
<banisterfiend> Mon_Ouie: Yeah
<banisterfiend> Mon_Ouie: k00, thx for the chat
<Harzilein> hmm
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<Harzilein> a char class with '|', '\', '-', ' ' in it is a bit unwieldy in a regex, is there an easy way i can encapsulate it in a variable?
<erikh> var = %r![|\ -]!
<Harzilein> erikh: i was thinking of making it from an array of characters
<erikh> to overcomplicate it?
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<erikh> oh, you'll need to double the \
<Harzilein> exactly, and i need to make sure to put the - at the end
<Harzilein> exactly what i meant with unwieldy
<erikh> so just write it out into a var
<erikh> what if you want to add [ or ] ?
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<erikh> are you going to write a conditional escaping system that only works with character classes?
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<Harzilein> ?
<erikh> well, think about it
<Harzilein> TREE_CHARS = [' ', '\\', '-', '|']
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<Harzilein> TREE_REGEX = Regexp.union(tree-chars.map{|c| Regexp.quote})
<Harzilein> now i want to do
<Harzilein> say
<erikh> that's not a character class though
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<Harzilein> yeah, that's the only problem
<Harzilein> but i guess i'll live
<erikh> additionally, Regexp.quote will probably over-escape
<erikh> I mean, if you want to overcomplicate it, go right ahead I guess
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<Harzilein> the problem is that i'd want this to apply to other ascii trees as well
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<erikh> is this coming from user input at all?
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<Harzilein> i can cook the input, i'd only feed it to the correct script
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<Harzilein> i'm trying to overcomplicate creating this tree from the instructions:
<Harzilein> i refuse to do it by hand ;)
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<erikh> I'm still not sure why not typing it out directly is easier in any way
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<Harzilein> i like to name stuff ;)
<erikh> TREE_REGEX = "string_of_regex"
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<Harzilein> doesn't work though, needs another level of escaping
<erikh> not if you add it there
<erikh> or use %r
<erikh> etc
<Harzilein> TREE_REGEX = "[|\\\\ -]"
<Harzilein> l.gsub(/^#{TREE_REGEX}*/) do |m|
<Harzilein> "#{m.length} "
<Harzilein> end
<Harzilein> looks horrible
<erikh> %r![|\\ -]!
<Harzilein> TREE_REGEX = %r,[|\\ -],
<Harzilein> looks slightly less horrible, but i guess i win nothing with chars there
<Harzilein> +only
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<erikh> yeah, nothing but easier to read code and a faster execution time
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<Harzilein> ?
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<Harzilein> so how would you strip any of a number of prefix characters from an array of strings, while replacing with the length of the prefix?
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<Harzilein> oh well, i'll use your regex now, feel free to explain how it would end up more readable and faster w/ chars.
<erikh> sure, because you're not constructing the regexp dynamically
<erikh> it's more readable because people (should) know what a regex is
<erikh> and therefore there's less code to understand
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<erikh> the alternative is that to figure out why a regex composed of characters I passed it was broken, I would have to unwind your regexp creation magic to get at the actual regexp, which is all I really give a shit about
<erikh> and then, i'd have to fix your magic to avoid breaking compatibility
<erikh> all this when a regexp would solve the problem just as sufficiently.
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<Harzilein> is there something nice instead of gsub with a block to strip the prefix and return a tuple of the prefix length and the remaining string? the idea is that without a capture there is less _regex_ to understand
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<Harzilein> i.e. something better than
<Harzilein> rest = l.match(/^#{TREE_REGEX}*/) do |m| len = m[0].length ; [len,l[len..-1]] ; end
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<zenspider> rawr
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<erikh> meow?
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<erikh> drbrain: what you should do when you fix that is write a 3 page blog post about how bad stringscanner is and the trials you went through fixing it
<erikh> make sure to swear at ruby-core a lot while you do it
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<erikh> cause that's how problems get solved
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<drbrain> erikh: obvs
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<zzak> ruby-core actualy solves anything?
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<manveru> sometimes they reluctantly allow other people to fix their mess :)
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<firefux> just read some blog about refinements, is going to make it to Ruby 2.0?
<firefux> +it
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<apeiros_> manveru: only sometimes
<apeiros_> there's still a stringscanner patch in redmine which I submitted
<apeiros_> like… 3y ago?
<apeiros_> simple things it adds… capture related stuff… so you don't have to abuse $~
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