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<zenspider> ugh. testing out chef stuffs is slow and error prone :(
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<erikh> zenspider: yes.
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<erikh> there are a couple of (recent) tools you might find useful, berkshelf and test-kitchen
<erikh> the latter is an opscode project
<erikh> they both have pretty sweet vagrant integration
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<yorickpeterse> Morning
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<judofyr> morning!
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<rue|w> HI THERE
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<yorickpeterse> HELLO
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<anannie> I'm wondering if someone could point me to resources from which I can lear how to set up a file based data structure. My initial idea was to put in keywords into the file and scan until I hit a keyword, the data would be the text between the two keywords, but I think a more efficient approach exists and I would love to learn that. Is it possible for someone to tell me what I should be reading over here?
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<andrewvos> anannie: You want to do what?
<yorickpeterse> "file based data structure" can you be even less specific? There's a billion ways to store data in a file using a particular format
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<yorickpeterse> Start from the beginning, what do you want to store?
<anannie> andrewvos: Simple text adventure game. I want to create a generic function that takes up "rooms" stored within this file, reads them and appropriately takes input and moves to another portion of the file as required
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<anannie> andrewvos: I currently do this with a lot of methods where each stores a room and I would like to make it more elegant if that makes any sense
<yorickpeterse> Why exactly do you want to store this in a file and not, say, a SQLite3 database?
<yorickpeterse> the latter is much easier to deal with
<anannie> yorickpeterse: No particular reason, beyond the fact I don't know how to deal with a database.
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<GarethAdams> you don't know how to deal with a "file based data structure" either
<anannie> GarethAdams: Nope, but that seemed like something I could learn more quickly.
<yorickpeterse> SQL/SQLite3 is easier than that
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<yorickpeterse> It saves you having to write a parser and what not (assuming you're going for your own file format)
<anannie> yorickpeterse: But won't I learn more if I wrote my own parser? It's challenging...
<yorickpeterse> No
<yorickpeterse> Writing a parser is a good excercise but it can do done so wrong so easily
<yorickpeterse> It's best to take small steps instead of trying to climb the hill in a single go
<yorickpeterse> If you want to learn how to write a parser write an XML parser :)
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<anannie> yorickpeterse: I wrote a very simple input parser for taking up text, but I guess it was basic compared to what this needs to do
<GarethAdams> anannie: you won't learn anything about writing an adventure game
<yorickpeterse> For parser you could take a look at StringScanner: http://rubydoc.info/stdlib/strscan/StringScanner
<yorickpeterse> * parsers
<anannie> yorickpeterse: I just learn best when the project seems tough and impossible. Yes I do fail a lot, but it helps
<yorickpeterse> or, if you want something more powerful you can use Parslet (a Rubygem) and the likes
<andrewvos> anannie: Remember, for text based adventures you use a maze type map layout. This means that any data structure you use has to do relational stuff, so you can connect parts of the maze to parts that are already stored in the file.
<andrewvos> Or you would get infinite amounts of blocks in the maze.
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<anannie> GarethAdams: True, what do you suggest I should make? Most projects I come up with are too advanced for me to implement, this one was in the book I'm reading and it seemed to hit the sweet spot. It was challenging enough for me to get started, but not so difficult for me to fall flat immediately after I started.
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<yorickpeterse> anannie: do you happen to know any other programming languages?
<yorickpeterse> A good exercise is to parse some other language and make it run Ruby code
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<yorickpeterse> For example, Javascript is fairly easy to parse
<anannie> andrewvos: Yes, my plan was to essentially treat it like an array of arrays, where each individual array contains text, the minimum number for input, the maximum number for input and a series of IDs for the rooms it links to in sequential order
<anannie> yorickpeterse: No, I do not I'm afraid. I've read about a few languages, but I'm completely new to proper programming
<yorickpeterse> Hm
<yorickpeterse> You could go with parsing basic arimetic operations
<judofyr> parsing a programming language and a data storage file format are two completely different things though
<rue|w> Mm, binary MUD pfiles
<rue|w> ’Cause, you know, it needs to be *fast*
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<yorickpeterse> judofyr: correct, but I'd say the former is a bit more useful
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<anannie> yorickpeterse, judofyr: I just care about learning how to program and I'm willing to implement anything that gets me to the point where I can do the projects I wish to build, which are essentially a hybrid combo of an embedded system + a Computer
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<judofyr> anannie: well, find something fun and work on that. I've always liked implementing template engines. it involves parsing and compiling, but nothing of the advanced stuff.
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<anannie> To summarise I should be looking into implementing a database over here instead of reinventing the wheel with my own file based data store?
<judofyr> anannie: well, the most pragmatic way would be to juse use SQLite. it's a file-based database that basically handles everything for you.
<judofyr> anannie: but if you want to learn about writing custom data storage, well, there's plenty of fun stuff in that :)
<anannie> judofyr: I'm actually fascinated by AI and ML and I'm learning this so that I can actually do robotics instead of just designing, building the hardware and waiting for someone to program it for me. I don't know why but a lot of web stuff doesn't strike my fancy because it has been done to death... Over here in the text adventure game there are interesting things you can do and you can scale it up. One big open thing is that can you build an
<anannie> entire world which generates itself according to some guidelines and a rough storyline which players can explore? To do that you need to figure out how to do NLP, a lot of heavy ML to represent things and make objects within the system have behaviour and so on. That end goal is hard and it would be fun. That's why I wanted to learn things the harder way instead of the more pragmatic way, because what I want to do is inherently impractical if
<anannie> that makes any sense and I love quixotic quests to build something and actually achieve something at the end of the day
<anannie> judofyr: I'd love to do the latter, if I fail then I'll switch to the former... Do you know any resources I can read for this?
<yorickpeterse> If you are interested in AI start with human language analysis
<yorickpeterse> (it's more difficult than you might think)
<yorickpeterse> or neural networks, or anything similar
<anannie> yorickpeterse: Yup it is. I don't know enough to directly jump there, my to do list has a lot of in-betweens before I get anywhere near there. I tried once when I was 15 or so to learn NLP and I failed miserably.
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<yorickpeterse> On the most basic level neural networks are nothing but distributed workers
<yorickpeterse> It becomes more interesting when you want those workers to become self learning in one way or another
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<judofyr> anannie: resources for data storage files? not really.
<judofyr> anannie: btw, you might find this useful: http://weblog.jamisbuck.org/2011/2/7/maze-generation-algorithm-recap
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<anannie> judofyr: Okay, I'll try to do my best and see what happens.
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<judofyr> anannie: a lot of the architecture depends on how you are going to use it. are they small enough to put everything in memory? is it important that everything is saved to disk immediately or could there be an auto-save every 5 seconds?
<anannie> judofyr: They are small enough to put everything into memory. No I'm not storing anything to disk at all, I'm just reading from it.
<judofyr> hm? it's a read-once thingie?
<judofyr> like, a map?
<anannie> judofyr: Yup
<judofyr> ah, that simplifies it a lot. I thought you needed something to write to continuously (save-file)
<judofyr> anannie: in Ruby, the simplest thing is to use Marshal.
<judofyr> Marshal.dump(obj) creates a string-representation of the object
<anannie> judofyr: Yes, that's why I felt that I could do it without a database... If I had to write something continuously then that would have been challenging
<judofyr> and Marshal.load(str) loads it again
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<anannie> judofyr: Does that require everything to be defined within an object? What I'm looking for is a way to write the storyline into a file and then create a very light program that reads it and sequentially performs the actions
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<judofyr> anannie: yeah, that loads everything at once
<anannie> judofyr: Do you come here often?
<judofyr> anannie: yeah
<judofyr> you can also reach me at judofyr@gmail.com, but I can be kinda slow to respond
<bnagy> . o O ( welcome to cat facts! )
<anannie> judofyr: Then I'll try to implement the same program using three different methods, my own file storage system, a database and using Marshal... I'll get back in touch when I do (and if I fail) with the code... Is that okay? I'd really love it if someone could appraise my code.
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<judofyr> anannie: I'd love to :)
<anannie> judofyr: :D Thanks!
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<masterkorp> errr
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<zzak> zenspider: cheers!
<matti> zzak: Hi hi
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<zzak> matti: hello!
<zzak> good morning!
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<matti> Hi ;]
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<naquad> is there any way to require a file into a module?
<naquad> kind of module Xyz; require 'some_file'; end and everything defined by 'some_file' is now accessible only through Xyz?
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<Defusal> "Interrupted system call"
<Defusal> That's a new one, not very good
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<rue> naquad: No
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<naquad> hell :(
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<yorickpeterse> naming question: I have a variable that contains a list of variable names that can be iterated, what would I call such a variable?
<yorickpeterse> (the container)
<yorickpeterse> "iterables" sounds a bit weird in my opinion
<erikh> variable_names
<erikh> it should be obvious that a collection is iterable
<yorickpeterse> well, in this case it will be a class attribute
<erikh> i'm not sure why that matters
<yorickpeterse> So "class_attributes" would not fit since not all attributes can be iterated over
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<yorickpeterse> or just "attributes"
<erikh> well communicate the scope then
<erikh> that is, what's special about those class attributes
<yorickpeterse> Hm, I think I'll just go with iterables for the time being
<erikh> iterables communicates nothing
<erikh> it's like calling it 'array'
<yorickpeterse> hm, good point
<yorickpeterse> In that case I think "iterable_attributes" is the best that makes sense
<canton7> I'd just say 'attributes'. the plural implies something that can be iterated over
<yorickpeterse> Hm, thinking of it I might actually call it "child_nodes" (since that's what it will be used for)
<yorickpeterse> that makes more sense in the context
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<canton7> better yeah
<erikh> yes. child_nodes++
<erikh> nobody cares (or even needs to be told) that it's a collection
<erikh> they care what it's composed of.
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<yorickpeterse> thanks for the suggestions :)
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<crankharder> why is one of these a File and the other a StringIO? https://gist.github.com/459d14adb6db0ce18842
<crankharder> follow up: how do i get a File from the one that is a StringIO
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<Mon_Ouie> I'm not sure why anymore, but anyway why does it bother you to get a StringIO? They have the same API as IO objects
<Mon_Ouie> IIRC it's just size-based
<crankharder> cause the other API i'm using doesn't take StringIOs :)
<crankharder> i dont know why :/
<Mon_Ouie> What API?
<crankharder> internal
<erikh> knee-jerk guess, but it's probably the cache headers.
<erikh> says "dynamic content, yo"
<matti> crankharder: StringIO can yield File-alike object.
<matti> crankharder: Makes no difference.
<matti> crankharder: You can happily mock any File with StringIO.
<erikh> it does if you have lousy code that checks for === File
<matti> Well.
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<matti> I guess size of the artifact here might be the key.
<matti> One being tiny fits in memory.
<erikh> oh, I didn't read the urls
<matti> Other larger may end up being a temp-file-alike thing.
<erikh> the first in irb is in one order and the curls are in the other order
<erikh> makes sense.
<matti> Yep.
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<swarley> you should update the topic to say ruby 1.9.3
<andrewvos> swarley: It does say that.
<swarley> sorry, chanserv's entry message
<swarley> -ChanServ- [#ruby-lang] Ruby - The programming language, http://ruby-lang.org | Ruby 1.9.2 is out | Read http://ruby.stadik.net/ | Paste >3 Lines of Text on http://pastie.org
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<erikh> the channel founder hasn't been here for a rather long time
<erikh> unless he relinquished it recently.
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<erikh> chanserv, why do you have to fail so hard.
<erikh> it's not even responding.
<erikh> anyhow, if it's still 'dblack', he hasn't been in here in a good six years, I reckon.
<injekt> noob ass irc
<erikh> s/irc/freenode/
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<injekt> NO IRC
<injekt> s/irc/internet/
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<chris2> corundum: seen dblack
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<chris2> corundum: seen dblack?
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<chris2> hm, this used to work 6 years ago :P
<erikh> hehe
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<chris2> hm, he gave a talk in july 2012
<rue> Wasn’t it
<rue> !seen dblack
<rue> Or summit?
<chris2> nope
<rue> He’s on twitter if you really need him
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<chris2> whats his handle?
<erikh> dblack :)
<chris2> nope
<erikh> oh
<erikh> it's david_a_black
<erikh> let me check my followers list... he's not very active but every now and again he pops up.
<chris2> hm, following already
<chris2> :P
<chris2> very well
<chris2> back to lurking
<erikh> heh.
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<swarley> !ssen dblack
<swarley> !seen dblack
<swarley> or not
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<erikh> oh, drbrain owns it now
<erikh> and dblack is no longer david black
<erikh> since the nickserv reset
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<rue> Help us Dr. Brian
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<zenspider> rue: what's up?
<zenspider> he's in japan
<rue> Oh, right, I forgotted
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<rue> It’s the biweekly moaning about the chanserv message
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<zenspider> what about it?
<zenspider> oh.
<erikh> I was just trying to help, heh.
<zenspider> who the fuck reads that anyhow?
<zenspider> yeah. I don't have auths
<erikh> someone did, apparently
<zenspider> *shrug*
<zenspider> I say we just get rid of it
<erikh> precisely.
<zenspider> the regular topic is fine
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<erikh> yeah, probably not a bad idea.
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<zenspider> I really should fire up mail, select all, and delete...
<zenspider> ugh
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<RegEchse> zenspider: why would you do that? o.o
<RegEchse> too much spam?
<RegEchse> and when was the troll or bot here? :D
<erikh> zenspider: are you at gogaruco?
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<zenspider> erikh: I'm not
<erikh> bummer!
<zenspider> RegEchse: why shouldn't I do that? sounds liberating
<zenspider> when was what troll or bot here?
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<RegEchse> zenspider: if i deleted all my mail i'd loose much of my private conversation :D
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<RegEchse> and "troll or bot" was just ja guess since you're op-ed. ;P
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<zzak> zenspider is a bot
<zzak> pay it no mind
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<RegEchse> oh, sure. Then he op-ed to kick himself, i guess!? ;P
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<pr0ton> why does this not work in Ruby 1.9 ? https://gist.github.com/071098850a903473e7d9
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<zzak> RegEchse: ive got all that on ignore, but yah, it tends to do that sometimes
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<zzak> pr0ton: nix that colo
<zzak> pr0ton: nix that colon*
<pr0ton> got it
<pr0ton> : must become then right?
<pr0ton> this is annoying -.-
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