ChanServ changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 1.9.3-p125: http://ruby-lang.org | Paste >3 lines of text on http://pastie.org or use a gist
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<zzak> erikh: what kinda rpm are you guys doing?
<erikh> 25k earlier
<erikh> not much compared to big sites but our baseline is around 3, 4k.
<erikh> so a good autoscaling setup like the one we have saves a lot of dough.
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<erikh> oh, forgot to ping you zzak
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<mistym> Anyone free for a little code review? Wrote my first tiny web app, would like to be told if I did anything terrible, bad style, etc. ;)
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<cosah> trying to work with ints into strings. http://pastie.org/4448151
<burgestrand> cosah: what is the problem?
<burgestrand> cosah: the error message explains pretty clearly what the error is, just read the first line
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<cosah> i did it wrong. check again please. i had pasted the error twice instead of the code im working on and the eorror
<burgestrand> cosah: what do you think “for n in 500 * 999”, i.e. “for n in 499500” would do?
<cosah> take a long time
<burgestrand> cosah: why?
<cosah> trying to find the largest palidromic number produced by two 3 digit numbers
<cosah> wait
<cosah> derp
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<erikh> anyone know offhand why Process.daemon would not close the standard fd's?
<erikh> note that the process that's running runs in a subshell
<burgestrand> daemon sounds very mischevious
<burgestrand> ';,,,;'
<burgestrand> Um, no.
<erikh> are you as drunk as I was last night?
<burgestrand> takes a while to wake up and stop goofing around in the morning
<burgestrand> I were going to say I wouldn’t expect it to close them, but then I looked at the documentation.
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<erikh> burgestrand: it's a pretty critical part of the daemonizing process
<erikh> I probably need to double-fork
<erikh> I'll look at it tomorrow.
<burgestrand> Yeah, I suppose random terminal output everywhere would be a bit annoying.
<erikh> well it's more about the process belonging to no tty
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<erikh> no tty, no standard file descriptors
<erikh> when setsid is called that happens
<erikh> anyhow, yeah, now that I think about it I'm single forking and now I understand why double-forking is necessary
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<erikh> writing a process monitor, see.
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<sheldonh> is there a nicer way to determine if a method is private than this? o.respond_to?(m, :private) and !o.respond_to?(m)
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<sheldonh> in IRB, i can call Object.new.private_methods, but i can't find where that comes from, and don't know whether it's safe to rely on outside irb
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<eydaimon> anyone have a good article on how to do releases? like, how do people typically organize releases .. master, staging, production etc
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<sheldonh> eydaimon: are you using capistrano? if so, you can look into multistage capistrano
<eydaimon> sheldonh: nope
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<whitequark> sheldonh: use Object.new.method(:private_methods)
<whitequark> that'll show the class where it's defined
<whitequark> and yes, private_methods is ruby core
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<yorickpeterse> eydaimon: you don't need Capistrano
<yorickpeterse> The basic idea, at least when using Git, is quite simple: master is stable (= production), development is exactly that
<yorickpeterse> Other branches might contain feature/issue specific code
<yorickpeterse> You merge from other_branch -> development -> master
<yorickpeterse> Then you tag releases on the master branch and push it out to whatever target you have
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<ddfreyne> How common is it to use master for stable code? I tend ot use it as trunk (= development), and branch off for release branches (in which I tag my releases)
<ddfreyne> I suppose having a "stable" branch would make sense for web apps where you deploy using git... but I don't directly see an advantage for non-web apps
<yorickpeterse> It depends on the size of the project
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<yorickpeterse> For example, with my own projects "master" is usually only stable code if the project itself is mature enough
<yorickpeterse> While I'm still hacking on things it's just as unstable as anything else, the moment I release the first "stable" version I switch over to a separate branch
<ddfreyne> Hmm, I see. nanoc is over 5 years old and has no "stable" branch
<yorickpeterse> This makes it easy to generate tarballs, tags and what not using a branch that you know is stable (assuming you actually test this)
<ddfreyne> there is always one active release branch though (one per x.Y version)
<yorickpeterse> opposed to playing Russian roulette with the code and not knowing if it will break things
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<ddfreyne> yorickpeterse: I guess the difference is that I don't have a single stable branch, but different ones
<yorickpeterse> heh
<yorickpeterse> It also of course depends on the person writing the code, different people have different opinions on it and that's fine
<yorickpeterse> As long as there's a somewhat clear indication about the release cycle :)
<ddfreyne> I hack away at master and when I feel it contains enough for a new release, I tend to create a release branch, finish things up in that branch and then tag e.g. 3.5.0 which is a new feature release
<ddfreyne> I feel that this way of working is a tad simpler
<yorickpeterse> yeah that works as well
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<yorickpeterse> Though I'd say that unless you end up with something like Ruby 1.8 vs Ruby 1.9 (in terms of branches) tags would suffice as well
<ddfreyne> this way I could even keep on supporting older versions (e.g. release 3.3.9 after I release 3.4.0)
<ddfreyne> yeah
<ddfreyne> but I develop new features and bugfixes at the same time, always
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<yorickpeterse> Ah, in that case branches are a better option
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<brownies> i'm seeing ridiculous instability with Firefox+Selenium+Capybara+Cucumber ... anyone ever experienced such things?
<brownies> it'll just randomly fail to connect (to localhost!) in the middle of random tests... sometimes.
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<banisterfiend> hi
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<sheldonh> yo
<banisterfiend> waddup
<sheldonh> nothing. marvelling at uncle bob's "The Clean Architecture" http://blog.8thlight.com/uncle-bob/2012/08/13/the-clean-architecture.html
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<sheldonh> also, excited about cane and simplecov (as points of departure for exploration, not as metrics to chase)
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<banisterfiend> sheldonh: that guy blabs a lot
<banisterfiend> sheldonh: maybe clean architecture is good, but i've seen some of his videos, and they're irritating and stupid
<banisterfiend> :P
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<sheldonh> banisterfiend: you are not alone with that opinion :)
<banisterfiend> google his videos and you'll see what i mean ;)
<sheldonh> banisterfiend: we have a consultant who walks out of our team room when we watch uncle bob videos :)
<sheldonh> banisterfiend: oh, i know all about 'em. we're paying for 'em :)
<banisterfiend> lol
<banisterfiend> i'd rather spend money on whiskey and cigarettes ;)
<sheldonh> banisterfiend: if i could find the same material presented in an equally engaging way that didn't irritate people as much, i'd be using that instead, trust me :)
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<whitequark> ahem
<whitequark> everything which includes the word "Enterprise" is inherently bad.
<banisterfiend> and anyone who spends their time writing articles about code and not code itself should be treated with suspicion ;)
<whitequark> and, er, he calls himself "Master Craftsman"?..
<whitequark> I could understand when HR's look for "rockstar ninjas"
<whitequark> but erm
<sheldonh> banisterfiend: um... he writes code :)
<banisterfiend> sheldonh: i'm surprised he finds the time in between all his tweeting and yapping
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<yorickpeterse> Wanted: Rockstar Ninja Rails Guru expert with +10 years experience in enterprise scalable web applications in an agile environment.
<yorickpeterse> (bingo)
<rue> Actually, that’s possible now.
<rue> I mean, there are about 18 people who fit the bill, but still.
<sheldonh> banisterfiend: well look at us, talking shit on irc :)
<yorickpeterse> Perks: highly extreme competitive salary, an achievement based work environment and a group of people who lack any understanding about how to treat their employees
<yorickpeterse> (I could go on for a while)
<banisterfiend> sheldonh: hehe, well tbh i dont know much about him aside from watching a few of his dorky videos and seeing some of the oh so controversial things he says on twitter
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<sheldonh> banisterfiend: i've learned a lot from him, but i get that he annoys the crap out of a lot of people :)
<banisterfiend> fair enough
<sheldonh> banisterfiend: so that's me... what's up with you? :P
<banisterfiend> sheldonh: trying to push this on people: github.com/conradirwin/pry-capture
<banisterfiend> :P
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<sheldonh> ah, saw that... somewhere. here, last night, maybe. looks like something i've wanted for a while
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<banisterfiend> sheldonh: Yeah, it's just for postmortem debugging atm, but i'd like to make it fix + continue in the future
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<sheldonh> banisterfiend: imagine... you get an sms, you log into the pry capture console, fix the bug and continue -- production servers carry on happily :)
<sheldonh> banisterfiend: actually, with passenger's had handler avoidance, it's not that far fetched :)
<banisterfiend> sheldonh: yeah, you can do that already using pry-remote-em and pry-exception_explorer
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<whitequark> sheldonh: this was invented like 30 years ago with smalltalk.
<whitequark> or probably even earlier
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<banisterfiend> sheldonh: a guy was telling me he did it the other day, he got sent an email at 3am, pry opened a socket, he fixed the bug and continued it
<sheldonh> banisterfiend: very nice :)
<andrewvos> Cool
<banisterfiend> exception_explorer is fix + continue, but it only catch a certain class of exception :/ it can't catch everything yet
<banisterfiend> pry-capture on the other hand can catch everything, but t's not fix + continue :P tradeoffs
<sheldonh> banisterfiend: always. Q: "What is the meaning of life?" A: "A trade-off."
<banisterfiend> hehe i think we'll get there in the end though, just needs more C :)
<sheldonh> ugh
<sheldonh> you know you're not in a happy place when what you need is more C
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<rue> C is awesome.
<rue> Don’t fear the C
<whitequark> embrace, extend and extinguish it instead
<rue> This is originally about writing a GC in C: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUO_5EALZoM
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<yorickpeterse> C is overrated
<yorickpeterse> Go is where it's at
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<rue> No, *Rust* is
<yorickpeterse> lol
<yorickpeterse> That language only 5 people use
<rue> Yeahp
<whitequark> rue: recently seen some interesting snippets in Rust, could you tell something from your experience?
<rue> I do like most of Go…I was just so disappointed about the return value handling shit that I didn’t bother with it
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<whitequark> rue: what caught my attention was its soft-realtime abilites
<rue> whitequark: Haven’t used it for anything real (like nobody else). But it hits every single one of my points in a low-level language. Including, yeah, softRT
<rue> Well, a completely unmanaged mode would be nice
<whitequark> oh, nice. I'll probably dive into it
<whitequark> I thought it was yet another JS-like crap from mozilla again
<whitequark> due to some twitter conversations or whatever
<rue> Nah, you’re thinking about Dart
<rue> Maybe
<whitequark> nope, I have seen Dart
<whitequark> and it's Java-like crap from Google :)
<whitequark> dart is irrelevant, go seems to be quite irrelevant too--I don't see which problems does it solve
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<rue> Dart does seem like the most boring thing ever.
<banisterfiend> Yeah
<rue> I can’t even be arsed to hate it
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<sheldonh> rue: i don't really fear C. i fear most of the communities around it. a lot of outdated thinking
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<banisterfiend> sheldonh: they would probably argue the 'hip' things you're into now, will be dead in 5 years, yet the C guys will still be doing what they're doing, and doing it well :)
<banisterfiend> if by outdated you really mean non-hip ;)
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<sheldonh> banisterfiend: i'm talking about hip things like intention-revealing function and variable names, and teste-driven development :)
<banisterfiend> sheldonh: some things C guys aren't so good at though (in my experience), like testing
<sheldonh> banisterfiend: you see both of these things in C source bases, but they're rare
<banisterfiend> yeah it's true about testing
<sheldonh> banisterfiend: i used to be a committer on the FreeBSD project. i was horrified when i poked my head back in this year. still no TDD to speak of, and still KNF style!
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<sheldonh> banisterfiend: all that aside, C teaches you some stuff worth knowing, and sometimes it really is the only tool for the job
<banisterfiend> sheldonh: well TDD isn't necessarily the be all and end all, but at least writing regression tests
<eridani> thoughts on genie and nimrod?
<sheldonh> banisterfiend: it's still early in my evolution. for me, TDD is still hugely important
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<seoaqua> i created a gem my self, uploaded it to ruby gems, and gem installed it locally. but i got 'LoadError: cannot load such file --' when requiring it. what can i do ,pls?
<banisterfiend> sheldonh: well, TDD doesn't seem to prevent a bunch of C programmers writing really stable and solid code
<seoaqua> there was no error i was in linux, now i am in mac
<sheldonh> seoaqua: is it on github? you could show us the source :)
<seoaqua> sheldonh, the gem is on rubygems
<sheldonh> banisterfiend: correct. they have vast bug trackers and lots of users. leap second bug, anyone? :)
<seoaqua> the source is simply 'require xxx'
<seoaqua> sheldonh, the source is simply 'require xxx'
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<sheldonh> seoaqua: i'd be happy to look if you made the source _of_the_gem_ available
<sheldonh> seoaqua: otherwise, all i can suggest is "require 'rubygems'" first
<seoaqua> sheldonh, thanks, i'll try ,but this won't cause any problems in linux :S
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<seoaqua> sheldonh, still not working :S
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<sheldonh> seoaqua: it depends on your linux. some of them (like gentoo) add -rrubygems to RUBYOPT in the environment, some (like debian) don't
<manveru> seoaqua: what's the gem name?
<seoaqua> afk for a while,sorry
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<kke> beanstalk-client seems to randomly pick one of the servers given in env variable
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<gnufied> banisterfiend: the description is little vague - "Start a pry session whenever something goes wrong" not that I wouldn't want something like that, but lofty goals
<banisterfiend> gnufied: hehe, he just means exceptions :)
<banisterfiend> yeah, it was a bit vague
<gnufied> :-)
<gnufied> I am in midst of this massive java project and everything has gone wrong
<banisterfiend> java not jruby?
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<gnufied> yeah, java with generous helping of struts, spring
<yorickpeterse> But Java is enterprise, nothing can go wrong
<injekt> ^
<injekt> it's true I've written lots of java
<injekt> it never let me down
<gnufied> yes, but you have never written XML
<yorickpeterse> They should've named in JXML
<gnufied> java is just the sugar. real code is written in XML when you are doing j2ee
<yorickpeterse> gnufied: at least you're not using XSLT....right?
<injekt> I wrote lots of xml, this is what removed all the years off my life
<jaska> </wrist>
<gnufied> yorickpeterse: it hasn't come to that no.
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<yorickpeterse> Java could've been a decent language if they didn't over-engineer it to death
<injekt> heh
<injekt> it's not a bad language, i agree it's just massively over-engineered
<injekt> it's so easy to learn, though
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<gnufied> wait, it is not java itself which is over engineered though, isn't it? it is the libraries (j2ee) which are kinda over engineered
<gnufied> but even in ruby world, we are going same route kinda. for example, rack spec being not enough to support response streaming
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<gnufied> of course, no one is imposting a servlet standard on everyone in ruby world, so it is not bad.
<gnufied> just my 2 cents
<sheldonh> wow, i totally didn't expect BasicObject.is_a?(Object) to be true
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<seoaqua> manveru, sorry i was ark, the name is webpage
<seoaqua> sheldonh, thanks, but require 'ruby gems' didn't solve the problem
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<sheldonh> seoaqua: then it's back to plan A: show us the source code of them gem or at least tell us its name
<seoaqua> sheldonh, manveru , i have to be off, someone's waiting, maybe ask u guys 1 hour later :)
<sheldonh> seoaqua: (btw, it was require 'rubygems', not require 'ruby gems')
<sheldonh> seoaqua: but i assume that was a typo in irc :)
<seoaqua> sheldonh, the name is webpage see ya
<seoaqua> sheldonh, talk to u later^_^
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<sheldonh> missing dependency, nokogiri
<sheldonh> miserable problem report, really
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<sheldonh> but seriously, how can BasicObject.is_a?(Object) be true?
<yorickpeterse> sheldonh: is_a?() takes the inheritence tree into account
<Mon_Ouie> BasicObject is a Class
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<Mon_Ouie> It's not the same as checking for an instance of BasicObject
<yorickpeterse> is_a?() is basically a shortcut for `left.class == right.class`
<Mon_Ouie> left.class <= right
<yorickpeterse> so in this case it's the same as writing `BasicObject.class == Object.class`
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<yorickpeterse> Which, since both .class() methods return "Class", results in `true`
<Mon_Ouie> The argument has to be a Module
<Mon_Ouie> 3.is_a? 4 # exception
<sheldonh> Mon_Ouie: Object is a module, but i buy the rest of what's been said
<sheldonh> thanks guys
<Mon_Ouie> Object is a class
<Mon_Ouie> And a class is a kind of module
<sheldonh> actually, i think you're both wrong
<gnufied> ?
<sheldonh> i hadn't noticed it before, but the docs for BasicObject and Object clearly indicate that they BOTH EXTEND EACH OTHER! :)
<banisterfiend> sheldonh: haha your blog is like a shrine to uncle bob
<sheldonh> so i picked the worst possible classes to use for testing this code :)
<Mon_Ouie> No they don't
<injekt> no
<Mon_Ouie> First, because you can't extend a class with another class
<gnufied> ^
<sheldonh> *sigh*
<sheldonh> i mean they are both descended from each other
<sheldonh> BasicObject < Object
<Mon_Ouie> They don't do that either
<injekt> no they arent
<sheldonh> Object < BasicObject
<Mon_Ouie> BasicObject has no superclass
<Mon_Ouie> But the latter is correct
<sheldonh> "BasicObject is the parent class of all classes in Ruby." "Object is the root of Ruby's class hierarchy."
<injekt> Object inherits from BasicObject, BasicObject does not inherit from Object
<yorickpeterse> sheldonh: if you want to check if something is a BasicObject you'd want to do `some_obj.class == BasicObject`
<Mon_Ouie> Object *used to be* the root of Ruby's class hierarchy
<Mon_Ouie> And still is the implicit superclass if you don't specify one
<Mon_Ouie> yorickpeterse: Except a BasicObject doesn't respond to #class, #is_a?, etc. unless you include Kernel in its singleton class
<any-key> What's the benefit of BasicObject?
<sheldonh> any-key: very handy for building dynamic proxies :)
<injekt> it's just that, it's the bare minimum
<injekt> doesn't include all the kernel module like object does
<any-key> ah okay
<gnufied> something I drew a while back
<sheldonh> banisterfiend: you cut me real deep, shrek. there's stuff from other high priests in there! ;)
<yorickpeterse> Mon_Ouie: Yeah, just realized that
<sheldonh> gnufied: that is MUCH easier to get my face around than the description in The Ruby Programming Language :)
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<gnufied> the dot relationships mean, "is instance of"
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<sheldonh> in this case, i was using BasicObject and Object to test a type enforcement constraint in the elective test interface enforcement library i'm building. kak idea. i'll use Set and SortedSet instead :)
<Mon_Ouie> I'd still add one dot arrow, from Class to itself
<sheldonh> :)
<gnufied> Mon_Ouie: good point.
<sheldonh> gnufied: that should be on a blog post somewhere. even if the text is just "Moo, nublets!"
<gnufied> sorry, it was already 2 hour long talk.
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<banisterfiend> gnufied: i find the multiple 'instance of' relationships a bit confusing there..there's only one klass pointer, i'd just have the 'instance of' pointing to that klass
<banisterfiend> hmm yugui did a complete diagram for 1.9 somewhere
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<banisterfiend> :D
<gnufied> wow
<banisterfiend> gnufied: that's looking at actual klass/superclass pointers
<gnufied> I skipped meta classes deliberately, didn't wanted to confuse people
<banisterfiend> rather than just the lies that ruby tells you
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<banisterfiend> fairenogh
<sheldonh> bah humbug!
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<sheldonh> could have avoided all that by noticing that my constraint takes an object, not a class *sigh*
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<sheldonh> this is what i was shooting for, btw: https://gist.github.com/3348651
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<gnufied> is there a equivalent of \G in postgres ?
<gnufied> ah
<gnufied> \x
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<whitequark> banisterfiend: this picture is much more clear: http://whitequark.org/images/static-ruby/ruby-eigenclass.png
<whitequark> also nicely shows that 1.9 is waaay better than 1.8 in that regard
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<any-key> can't wait for 2.0 :D
<any-key> anyone have info on what 2.0 will offer?
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<eridani> a free pony
<any-key> those shit everywhere
<eridani> that's what the enhanced gc is for
<any-key> hahahaha
<virunga> i read an interview of the guy who implemented the new gc
<virunga> bitmap gc if i'm not wrong
<bnagy> if I have a url like http://foo.com/blah.pdf&lotsof=crap?goeshere is there a simple way to get '.pdf'? I have a bad way using extname and split
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<khaase> any-key: Module#prepend, refinements, adding unbound methods from modules to any class (allows implementing traits), new GC, syntax for symbol arrays
<bnagy> but I am not good at web, I'm hoping URI has something standard
<khaase> any-key: that's what's in trunk right now
<eridani> did the same person who did the bitmap gc also do the same for ree?
<khaase> any-key: planned features include keyword arguments
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<any-key> khaase: re: new symbol array syntax...is it similar to the JSON-esque syntax for string hashes?
<ddfreyne> khaase: what are refinements? similar to traits?
<khaase> any-key: ah, no, it's like %s and %S for strings: %i[foo bar] == [:foo, :bar]
<ddfreyne> khaase: nm I will google :)
<khaase> any-key: basically class boxes without local rebinding, ie extend a class only for a lexical scope
<any-key> interesting
<khaase> any-key: there was a talk at rubyconf 2010 about it, should be on confreaks
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<virunga> Aren't traits equivalent to mixins in Ruby?
<khaase> no
<khaase> traits copy methods
<khaase> mixins allow you injecting new classes into the inheritance chaing
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<khaase> that is, ruby mixins
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<eridani> does anyone here work on mri in c?
<khaase> real mixins allow you to specify inheritance chain at instantiation
<khaase> which is nearly the same
<khaase> in use
<khaase> except class inheritance is based on that, whereas in ruby it's the other way around
<ddfreyne> khaase: ahh, refinements =~ classboxes... answers my question
<virunga> khaase: mm, ok. Thanks
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<bnagy> ok File.extname( URI.parse( s ).path ) appears better
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<sheldonh> eridani: other way around, i think. ree incorporated the preexisting MBARI patch
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<sheldonh> khaase: are refinements actually in? i thought it was still under discussion
<injekt> sheldonh: they're in HEAD
<khaase> sheldonh: they landed a week or two ago
<khaase> sheldonh: official statement is that they are still experimental and might be removed before the release
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<sheldonh> khaase: ah, okay. saw some flutter on the issue, and assumed they were still ironing it out prior to commit
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<khaase> sheldonh: no, the blocker was some performance impact on all method calles, not only refined ones, but that has been resolved
<DefV> 12
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<sheldonh> khaase: meh, serves me right for jumping into ruby-core ml too quickly. when i saw ugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/4085#note-96, i didn't have the commit context, and that comment looks a LOT like someone still bashing an idea into shape
<sheldonh> khaase: looking forward to 'em :)
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<khaase> sheldonh: ha, totally forgot taking part in that discussion
<Mon_Ouie> stackoverflow.com has made doing researches about stack overflows much harder
<sheldonh> khaase: it moves pretty fast in there :)
<khaase> sheldonh: it's also that there is on ml for everything. they should split it. like language design being separate from bug reports and stuff
<khaase> *one ml
<sheldonh> khaase: i've been on worse mailing lists, but ja, sooner or later, something's gonna have to give :)
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<zzak> bugs vs features
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<sheldonh> zzak: plus another mailing list on which to argue about whether something's a bug or a feature :)
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<sheldonh> khaase: is it public knowledge when 2.0 would enter code slush?
<khaase> sheldonh: I think there is a roadmap
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<sheldonh> perfect, thanks
<sheldonh> khaase: i wonder whether __sender__ from the sender gem would be considered a big feature :)
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<yats> hey how to verify email address whose email servers accepts every address
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<whitequark> the only way to verify email address is to send a letter to it
<whitequark> with a link
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<sheldonh> kinda weird that no standard name for the practice has emerged. well, certainly none i could find on wikipedia
<erikh> actually this was baked into SMTP a long time ago
<erikh> BUT
<erikh> it's turned off by most mailers because it's a spam vector
<erikh> look at VRFY
<yorickpeterse> Pfffff, who needs that when you have regex!
<erikh> rfc2822 emails can get very complicated
<yorickpeterse> ....I was being sarcastic
<erikh> honestly for more things than not just accepting the email address without trying to scrub is the best approach
<erikh> ah
<erikh> sorry, it's 7:45am here.
<yorickpeterse> heh
<whowantstolivefo> what is the best e book for learning ruby on rails ? which ruby e-book is the best for the beginner user? not too much have programming language. have html+css+js ?
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<erikh> whowantstolivefo: you should probably ask this question in #rubyonrails
<zzak> erikh: good morning
<erikh> we're not really a rails channel, and generally send rails-related stuff tehre.
<erikh> zzak: hi
<erikh> I need to hop in the shower in like 10 minutes. what's up?
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<yorickpeterse> whowantstolivefo: I'd start with learning Ruby
<whowantstolivefo> hmm
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<zzak> erikh: not much, working through some billing stuff with gordon
<erikh> ah
<erikh> need me for anything?
<zzak> nah, how'd your thing go last night?
<erikh> could have went better; involved a post-mortem
<erikh> third party service fell over that we are entirely too dependent on
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<sheldonh> erikh: if VRFY wasn't entirely useless on the modern internet, we'd suggest it. as whitequark said, confirm-by-response is the only way to be sure today
<sheldonh> erikh: i sure do miss those sender verification callback storms, though :)
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<sheldonh> erikh: sorry, that came off a lot more douchey than i was shooting for :(
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<sheldonh> is there stabby-like syntax that produces a callable that takes *args?
<sheldonh> i mean, other than ->(*args) { ... } ;)
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<yats> net/smtp when called helo domain calls helo as well as ehlo
<yats> it calls twice
<yats> sheldonh:
<sheldonh> code?
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<yats> smtp.start(domain)
<yats> ret = smtp.check_mail_addr(domain, addr, decoy_from)
<yats> smtp.finish
<yats> def check_mail_addr(domain, to_addr, decoy_from = nil)
<yats> raise IOError, 'closed session' unless @socket
<yats> raise ArgumentError, 'mail destination not given' if to_addr.empty?
<yats> mailfrom decoy_from
<yats> helo domain
<yats> rcptto to_addr
<yats> end
<yats> helo domain calls HELO as well as EHLO
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<yats> i want a conditional only if HELO doesnt
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<sheldonh> yats: doesn't .start send helo as well?
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<sheldonh> yats: actually, nevermind. i can't read that code. dunno if it broke being pasted into irc or what
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<yats> ya .start send helo u are write
<yats> so how do i get a conditional one
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<yats> if helo fails then i wanna send elho
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<sheldonh> yats: if helo fails, it's game over
<yats> few email servers take ehlo
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<yats> dont they ?
<yats> sheldonh:
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<sheldonh> yats: still? wow, that surprises me
<yats> sheldonh:
<yats> yes they do
<sheldonh> yats: i'm amazed :)
<yats> hey i am making a email clening app can u help
<yats> cleaning
<sheldonh> no
<yats> sheldonh:
<yats> ok
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<apeiros_> are there different words for addresses with the name of a person/company in it vs. one without?
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<sheldonh> apeiros_: i think you'd have to make up terminology, or speak to a post office worker
<sheldonh> apeiros_: e.g. IdentifiedAddress
<apeiros_> sheldonh: ok
<apeiros_> I kinda didn't expect there to be different terms
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<sheldonh> apeiros_: outside of computing, you'll probably find an address divorced from an addressee rare: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Address_(geography)
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<jtoy> does ~/ work from inside ruby? I am testing with File.exists?("~/.config/config.yml") and it comes up false even though the file exists
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<apeiros_> jtoy: File.expand_path
<apeiros_> ruby doesn't automatically expand your paths (your shell tools don't either btw., that's a functionality of the shell itself, i.e. it expands it before passing)
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<myobie> I cannot figure out how to tell ruby-debug which port to expose it's control interface on. Can anyone point me in the right place?
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<zzak> myobie: --cport
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<jtoy> apeiros_: thanks!
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<mjio> I saw an early code example for “pre” and “post” callbacks for Ruby 2.0, but I can't find it anymore. Neither in the mailing list or Redmine issues. Can someone who remembers give me a hint where I can find it?
<apeiros_> mjio: I'd assume eigenclass.org had something on it
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<mjio> apeiros_: Thanks
<apeiros_> you're thinking of def foo:pre ?
<apeiros_> at least that's what I remember
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<mjio> yes. that's what I'm looking for
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<chris2> bougyman: hey
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