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<stardiviner> I'm using Vim, I want to use completion in vim, I found two tools, vim-ruby and rsense, which one is better for completion ?
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<yorickpeterse> Morning
<rue|w> HI THERE
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<bnagy> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/dd183375(v=vs.85).aspx so to wrap that with FFI I was planning to just call bmiColors a :pointer and then write_array_of{dword|short} as required
<bnagy> unless anyone knows a way to sort out the length stuff automatically
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<jashank> G'day.
<jashank> I've got a weird quoting problem.
<jashank> I have an array of strings that I want to put literal quotes around then interpolate into another string. Yet, it seems that the literal quotes disappear.
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<gnufied> did you try quoating the literal quotes?
<bnagy> could be quotemice
<gnufied> with \ , i.e
<jashank> vs = v.each {|x| "\', #{x}\'"}.join
<bnagy> bastards get in everywhere
<jashank> bnagy: Heh.
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<bnagy> you probably want map there not each
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<gnufied> yup
<bnagy> each just runs that code (which 'does' nothing) and then at the end it returns...you guessed it
<bnagy> the array it operated on
<jashank> ... oh.
<gnufied> ri Array#each and ri Array#map please
<jashank> Aaaaaaah.
<jashank> That explains a lot.
<bnagy> quotemice was a good working theory though, I would like that understood
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<jashank> Essentially, I'm writing some Ruby to generate more Ruby.
<jashank> In this case, it takes a YAML description and outputs SOAP drivers. Because I'm just that masochistic.
<judofyr> jashank: if you need to output strings, use x.inspect
<judofyr> jashank: a = ["a", "b"]; File.open("foo.rb", "w") { |f| f << a.inspect }
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<jashank> judofyr: String#inspect looks useful. I'll note that one.
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<whitequark> jashank: if you're generating Ruby, you are probably doing it wrong.
<whitequark> code generation is metaprogramming for the poor.
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<whitequark> (well, there are valid cases, but not much of them)
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<jashank> whitequark: I have a bad case of lazy. I suppose I could actually metaprogram right.
<jashank> Anyway, bit late for me to do anything about it. Night all.
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<judofyr> whitequark: well, if you're not closing over variables, I often find class_eval clearer than define_method + blocks all over the place
<judofyr> YMMV
<whitequark> well, you can do class_eval do... def
<judofyr> (I mean class_eval + string, and I think you know it :P)
<judofyr> (that I meant string-eval)
<whitequark> yep
<rolfb> subconversations
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<whitequark> if you need to interpolate stuff a lot, it's definitely better
<rolfb> how cute
<whitequark> at least from a performance point of view
<rolfb> :)
<whitequark> instance_variable_get and lots of symbol interpolations aren't going to be fast
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<whitequark> judofyr: I just thought that one could use class_eval and a combination of __FILE__ and caller[1] to provide information not only about meta-implementation of the included code, but also about the actual, i.e. substituted implementation
<whitequark> what do you think?
<whitequark> (also, speaking about define_method closing over variables, @headius hates them for some reason. I believe he's got a serious one.)
<judofyr> whitequark: e.g. I find this code perfectly fine: http://pastie.org/private/zhfpyo9vfrk0edztqkj69w
<judofyr> whitequark: Tilt does that for templates
<judofyr> although, it doesn't use caller, but the passed in filename
<whitequark> judofyr: yeah. also, it's better to use class_eval <<-EOF, __FILE__, __LINE__+1, through you probably know it...
<whitequark> I think that class_eval with string is a common pattern which appears where you would use full-blown macros in Lisp
<judofyr> whitequark: yeah, I always forget about it though. most of my class_eval-stuff are really simple wrappers around more complex methods, so I rarely care about it in the stacktrace. but it's a useful tip
<whitequark> which is pretty logical actually
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<whitequark> in unrelated notes, I like how your site looks like
<judofyr> thanks :)
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<judofyr> whitequark: what are you working on now? (open-source fun stuff)
<whitequark> not much in the repo yet, will be way more in the following weeks
<judofyr> whitequark: interesting. compiling to what?
<judofyr> whitequark: also, why not make it a VM?
<judofyr> as in, compile AST to bytecode
<judofyr> interpret/compile bytecode
<whitequark> because I'm not doing yet another Ruby VM :)
<whitequark> this is where it begins
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<judofyr> whitequark: interesting approach indeed.
<whitequark> basically my roadmap is:
<whitequark> 2-3 months to do a prototype which will compile to JS
<whitequark> then work on an LLVM backend suited for embedded development.
<whitequark> I want to develop a Ruby dialect low-level enough to be suitable for 32-bit microcontrollers and yet flexible enough to allow for some degree of metaprogramming.
<judofyr> whitequark: you've seen mRuby, right? you should make it compatible with it :)
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<whitequark> judofyr: I did, I think it sucks, and I won't
<judofyr> care to explain why?
<judofyr> whitequark: also, how do you detect when to start compiling? going V-style with a main-function?
<judofyr> C-style*
<whitequark> you see, the very basis of my approach is to have a high-level, flexible and convenient IR, and to employ extensive optimizations on that IR
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<whitequark> that is, eta-expansion is basically required for correct functioning of the language
<whitequark> *the compiler
<whitequark> things like each{} will be expanded to loops with locals squashed to the parent stack frame
<whitequark> etc.
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<whitequark> this will have some side effects. first, it is generally not possible to extend running code with new methods
<rking> whitequark: IR = ? Intermediate Representation?
<whitequark> rking: yes
<judofyr> whitequark: (side-question: how do you deal with #extend at runtime?)
<rking> whitequark: Do you have a repo or other URL I could follow?
<whitequark> judofyr: by prohibiting it
<judofyr> bummer
<rking> Cool, thanks. =)
<whitequark> judofyr: well, it depends
<judofyr> but I see why :)
<whitequark> this breaks a few nice Rails-esque tricks
<whitequark> but allows for much better runtime optimizations
<whitequark> I _might_ eventually allow for some forms of #extend, notably where all method resolution paths are statically predictable
<whitequark> i.e. where you are extending an object with fully determined class with a constant class
<judofyr> whitequark: what about .respond_to?(:foo) ?
<whitequark> judofyr: definitely yes
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<whitequark> and in a lot of cases it will be resolved at compile time
<judofyr> yeah
<whitequark> even better, if you're doing "raise 'Wrong type' unless t.respond_to? :foo", you get compile time error checking for free
<masterkorp> RUBIES!!
<whitequark> this kind of features is the whole point of creating Foundry
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<whitequark> (the name might get changed eventually due to trademark issues)
<whitequark> (also, I should note that it's dual-license: GPL3/commercial.)
<judofyr> whitequark: ooh, sneaky :)
<whitequark> (also#2, due to the fact that stdlib is written from scratch and GPL3 too, and the fact that compiler tosses in the stdlib code to the resulting object code, you cannot use GPL3 compiler and not be OSS)
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<judofyr> whitequark: well, you can write a custom stdlib
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<whitequark> I have to.
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<judofyr> no, I meant "you" as in "someone else"
<whitequark> ah
<judofyr> to circumvent the GPL3
<judofyr> so, what about contributors?
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<whitequark> technically yes, but the stdlib has dual role; it also interacts (as in "linked with") with the compiler, so I guess that won't have much sense
<judofyr> the commercial angle might put some off
<whitequark> oooh.
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<whitequark> contributors. I guess that'd be a can of worms, yes.
<whitequark> I recall some madness by Joyent
<judofyr> hehe, yes
<whitequark> according to FSF, trivial contributions (<10 lines) don't require signing CLAs or similar crap
<whitequark> but I guess that substantial ones will require that, unfortunately.
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<whitequark> or simpler
<whitequark> you could license your contributions under MIT/BSD
<whitequark> through I'm not sure how this kind of stuff should be represented in the source.
<judofyr> # MIT:
<judofyr> …
<judofyr> …
<judofyr> # GPLv3:
<judofyr> …
<judofyr> …
<whitequark> that's obviously bullshit
<judofyr> :D
<whitequark> after all, I think that the project itself won't have much 3rd party contributions, just you don't see many of them in the Ruby source
<whitequark> docpatches aside
<whitequark> *just as
<judofyr> true
<judofyr> whitequark: have you seen any other languages using the same approach?
<whitequark> judofyr: definitely. Squeak for example, through it's somewhat closer to mRuby
<judofyr> err, *implementations
<whitequark> also picobit (there's a fork on my github page)
<whitequark> in fact picobit inspired quite a few things about Foundry
<judofyr> ah
<judofyr> Scheme seems like an excellent language for this, yeah
<whitequark> and I recall a Java impl which was doing almost precisely this
<whitequark> through I only discovered it a week ago
<judofyr> whitequark: ever played with Forth?
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<whitequark> http://jcvm.sourceforge.net/ is not what I found a week ago, but it's close
<whitequark> judofyr: (forth) yeah
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<jammi> hi, is this a bug in ruby or is it supposed to do this: http://pastie.org/4738348
<jammi> spent a few hours to pinpoint that wtf
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<Mon_Ouie> It's totally normally
<Mon_Ouie> That's what happens when you modify an object in place: all references to that object are affected by the change
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<jammi> sure, for other objects, but strings?
<Mon_Ouie> Strings *are* objects
<Mon_Ouie> (If some tutorial said obj.succ! was equivalent to obj = obj.succ, it was overly simplifying the difference)
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<jammi> took just about a decade to notice that for me
<bnagy> o_0
<bnagy> you should probably go to the doctor for a physical
<whitequark> TIL that ruby has a mascot: http://rubicle.net/img/rubicle.png
<bnagy> ...
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<whitequark> not that I don't like anime, but IMO it's a liiittle bit over the top.
<judofyr> whitequark: really looking forward to Foundry :)
<whitequark> judofyr: I'm working at it at my dayjob, half of the time
<judofyr> whitequark: is it done yet?
<judofyr> whitequark: seems like a nice job you have :)
<whitequark> yeah. http://evl.ms
<whitequark> (foundry) some major infrastructure parts are already designed and built; see http://github.com/whitequark/furnace and /furnace-avm2
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<judofyr> whitequark: what about C-extensions?
<judofyr> oh wait, I read something about that somewhere…
<judofyr> you mentioned FFI
<judofyr> "Unfortunately this approach does not allow for Ruby MRI C extension usage"
<judofyr> whitequark: what's the issue here? C-code calling Ruby-code?
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<judofyr> whitequark: oh, and you didn't answer the main-function-thingie
<judofyr> (sorry for bothering you)
<judofyr> (but I like the idea
<judofyr> )
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<whitequark> judofyr: oh, sure
<whitequark> yes, you could not use the usual rb_funcall approach
<whitequark> because Foundry will do heavy inlining, and in a lot of cases the function you may want to call just won't be available
<judofyr> makes sense
<whitequark> even more, calling conventions may be arbitrarily bent in order to make more efficient code; I don't want to have a stable or sane internal ABI
<whitequark> I'd rather let LLVM do its job
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<whitequark> as per main-function, I'll make a way to export a function
<whitequark> just like extern "C" does
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<whitequark> these functions will be explicitly exported and will have explicit and stable C-like ABI
<judofyr> whitequark: (LLVM) how does that work with polymorphic methods/functions?
<judofyr> e.g. #add in your example
<whitequark> that is, polymorphic call sites? a perfect question
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<whitequark> if every variant of the callee class at a polymorphic call site can be inferred, they'll either have the same effective binary interface, or there'll be a simple switch()
<whitequark> if the call site contains a method call with arbitrary receiver ("*"), then I'd need to perform actual runtime method lookup
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<whitequark> this will obviously require the compiler to use a single BI for every public method
<judofyr> whitequark: hm. wait, this means that #send doesn't work?
<whitequark> judofyr: it does
<judofyr> how?
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<judofyr> how can #send work, but not funcall?
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<whitequark> first, not every #send is invoked on an arbitrary receiver or with arbitrary method name. if you can determine either statically, everything becomes a lot better
<whitequark> and in quite a few cases you can
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<whitequark> second, in worst case it'll fall back to hash table method lookup
<whitequark> it's just that if you write your code in a certain way, you could end up without any hash-table method lookup whatsoever
<whitequark> but I don't require you to avoid it.
<whitequark> the problem with hashtables is that they are way less deterministic than a static call (obviously)
<judofyr> whitequark: you could even try to compute a perfect hash table
<judofyr> s/even//
<whitequark> I know about perfect hash tables, but I'm not sure if they'll work in this case
<judofyr> whitequark: but how do you know what classes/objects need hash tables? e.g. in a web framework: controller.send(params[:action])
<whitequark> judofyr: that translates to *#send(*)
<whitequark> and that'll include hash tables in every object
<judofyr> well that's a bummer
<whitequark> Foundry aims to target a very wide range of systems. If you have 8 KB of RAM, that's not acceptable; if you have 1 MB; why not.
<judofyr> but I guess it's expected
<whitequark> note that calling methods on arbitrary receiver doesn't mean you have to uninline everything
<whitequark> you just need to include an uninlined version of the code too
<judofyr> yeah
<whitequark> so the code size grows, but performance doesn't suffer.
<judofyr> whitequark: I guess you could also declare stuff in-code: class Foo; never_dynamic_send end
<judofyr> to guide the optimizer
<whitequark> judofyr: I dislike this kind of annotations (I'm even more opposed to annotations in comments, but that's a different story)
<judofyr> it's not very elegant, but there might be some performance/size gains
<whitequark> but yeah, that's a possibility and I'll see if there'll be a need for this, yes.
<judofyr> but if the optimizer is written in Ruby it should be pretty simple to integrate with it
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<whitequark> yes
<whitequark> I think I should write another blog post about my compiling architecture
<judofyr> please do!
<whitequark> basically it's borrowed from Smalltalk, but I have some subtle implications due to having to work with embedded targets
<whitequark> I will. Expect it near the end of week :)
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<whitequark> I've decided on how I will do generic/specialized arrays (mentioned in the original article)
<judofyr> whitequark: oh, and what about GC?
<whitequark> fortunately Ruby stdlib never defines #call on classes and it has a nice syntax... e.g. Array.(for: Fixnum)
<whitequark> judofyr: another excellent question
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<whitequark> first, a major point of Foundry is that it will perform escape analysis on stack frames
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<whitequark> so lots of local variables could be allocated on stack, avoiding heap penalty
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<tubbo> .w 8
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<whitequark> and for more complex cases there's always LLVM's VMKit with a 20kB footprint
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<whitequark> d'oh
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<whitequark> 18:25 < whitequark> first, a major point of Foundry is that it will perform escape analysis on stack frames
<whitequark> 18:25 < whitequark> so lots of local variables could be allocated on stack, avoiding heap penalty
<whitequark> 18:26 < whitequark> and for more complex cases there's always LLVM's VMKit with a 20kB footprint
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<judofyr> ack
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<whitequark> heap isn't very fast; most importantly, it isn't predictably fast
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<whitequark> so you cannot use heap in e.g. interrupt service routines
<whitequark> (generally speaking.)
<whitequark> this is also the reason Foundry will treat global variables as first-class citizens
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<whitequark> in regular OSes, the global state you might have is mostly implicit; it's hidden in various external services
<whitequark> libc (stdin, stdout, ...); databases; filesystem; redis; whatever
<whitequark> in embedded, you have to have your own global state. don't be ashamed of it.
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<whitequark> somehow I felt an extreme urge to do this: http://i.imgur.com/BzrDw.jpg
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<ryanf> judofyr: really enjoyed your hash email just now :)
<judofyr> ryanf: :)
<ryanf> maybe you could try layering on more features with decorators
<ryanf> CountableHashDecorator
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<ryanf> i actually didn't get it at first and then scrolled up and saw who it was by
<ryanf> sometimes that list gets a bit out there
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<judofyr> ryanf: I'm mostly annoyed by the examples. it's so hard to discuss high-level design when you have code that fits into a single screen.
<ryanf> yeah
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<ryanf> roelofs actually has an open source app on github that's done the way he suggests
<ryanf> imo it does not make a good case at all
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<judofyr> ryanf: link?
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<judofyr> thanks
<ryanf> to be fair, it does seem a bit better than when i looked at it a couple months ago
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<judofyr> I love how the Repository-objects are still used as globals/singletons
<ryanf> yeah
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<ryanf> haha yeah actually i think that was the first one i clicked on last time
<judofyr> because FindGuild.by_id is way better than Repo.for(Guild).find
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<judofyr> that said, Rails is pretty singleton-focused (see ActiveRecord models)
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<judofyr> anyway, gotta go
<ryanf> later
<judofyr> yes
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<ryanf> wonder if you'll get more sincere replies
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<judofyr> well, I don't expect it
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<judofyr> bye!
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<Lempface> Has anyone done the RubyQuiz for Solitaire Cipher? I'm working through the deck arranging and keep getting incorrect values, was wondering if anyone had a few minutes to look over my code and see where the break in logic is.
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<masterkorp> POWA!!!
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<lianj> running what?
<Lempface> best way to strip anything but letters from a string?
<Lempface> right now i'm using a regex and iterating through letter by letter comparing to /[A-Z]/ and if it matches add to new string
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<Lempface> looks like gsub!(/[^A-Z]/, "") is what i want
<lianj> [^\w]
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<masterkorp> So can i increment a int like this: variable++ ?
<whitequark> hopefully someone here is better than me when low-level MRI stuff is involved
<whitequark> masterkorp: no. use variable += 1
<masterkorp> aww
<masterkorp> i love the ++ syntax
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<whitequark> there isn't anything good about ++/--. they exist solely because C is a PDP-11 macroassembler which dreams that it's a programmer language.
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<masterkorp> bullshit
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<whitequark> and I guess they weren't implemented in Ruby because they don't make much sense with its object system
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<whitequark> you see, in C++ (as example) + and += are separate operators. In Ruby, the latter is just syntactic sugar
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<masterkorp> You seem to young to understand
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<masterkorp> *too
<masterkorp> but anyways whatever rocks your boat
<whitequark> and I can't remember a single place in Ruby where a specific immediate is used when desugaring an expression
<whitequark> so, both desugaring it as "+= 1" and adding a separate operator would be against the general design
<whitequark> not even mentioning the pre/post distinction, which is horrible on its own. There isn't a sane way to desugar post-increment.
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<whitequark> masterkorp: and yeah, personal attacks are indeed the best way to communicate your thoughts.
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<masterkorp> oh man...
<masterkorp> i mean no warm
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<Lempface> can you access an instance method from a class method?
<masterkorp> yes
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<workmad3> Lempface: sure... if you have an instance to access it on
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<Lempface> I think I just needed to make all my instance methods class methods
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<Lempface> since it is more a collection of methods
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<Lempface> anyway to get this kind of output? [1, 2, 3] + [3, 2, 1] = [4, 4, 4]
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<Lempface> built in way i mean
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<Mon_Ouie> You can redefine Array#+, but that would be a pretty bad idea
<Mon_Ouie> (You can get the expected result pretty easily using Enumerable#zip)
<Lempface> I imagine so, so just iterate through then?
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<lianj> [1, 2, 3].zip([3, 2, 1]).map{|i| i.inject(:+) }
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<Lempface> boy that is ugly
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<Lempface> i think I'll just go with each_with_index and push results to new array
<lianj> and thats not ugly?
<Lempface> i think i prefer it, more readable
<Mon_Ouie> You can just do |a, b| a + b instead of inject
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<lianj> true
<Lempface> having a hard time following what zip does
<steveklabnik> it zips two lists up!
<steveklabnik> like a physical zipper
<lianj> irb> [1, 2, 3].zip([3, 2, 1])
<Lempface> new array of index 0,0 1,1 2,2 etc
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<Lempface> I understand it now, works great because I can then do a method on the result right in the block
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<CodingZen> test test
<CodingZen> woo
<CodingZen> was having problems posting so i registered my nick.. ok, question time: anyone know why in an rspec test of a controller, when the controller calls a method on itself, it doesn't actually get called in the 'get :action' statement?
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<CodingZen> test
<CodingZen> hi
<certainty> passed
<certainty> CodingZen: you might want to ask your question over in #RubyOnRails or in #rspec? I'm taking the wild guess here that you're referring to rails test
<CodingZen> hmm, i kept getting an error saying it couldn't send message to server.. sry for multi-posting it.. thanks for the referral!
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<certainty> I wonder why zip discards the result of the block if it is supplied. Isn't it more common to just specify how one wants to zip the lists?
<certainty> what is the usecase for the current implementation?
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<rue> certainty: The semantics of #zip don’t include returning the final value, because it’s about the entire set
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<erikh> rue: <3
<rue> Don’t try making nice, you hateful man :)
<certainty> rue: but if you don't pass a block it chooses to combine the zipped tuples into the final array
<erikh> just letting you know that I'm wearing a t-shirt and shorts, and it's kind of warm here still
<rue> Of course it also started raining right after I’d said that
<erikh> feeling a bit of an afternoon sweat coming on
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<erikh> might need to turn on the AC
* erikh hides
<rue> certainty: Yes, but that’s also the entire set
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<certainty> rue: hm, i can't follow. I'll ask that tomorrow, when my head is straight again. Thanks for you answer sofar :)
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<Lempface> woohoo! finally got my solitaire cipher working
<Lempface> <3 ruby quiz
<rue> Awesome
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<Lempface> hmm, I haven't seen this before, array#shuffle doesn't take an argument but if you do random: Random.new(1) then it does take an arg
<Lempface> whats that about
<Mon_Ouie> It allows you to specify what generator you want to use if you need a seed
<Mon_Ouie> a.shuffle(random: Random.new(1)) #=> [1, 3, 2]
<Mon_Ouie> (Example straight from the documentation)
<Mon_Ouie> (if you need a specific seed, I mean)
<Lempface> Oh yea I got it working
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<Lempface> but why does it take that argument, but nothing else
<rue> You can do [1, 2].shuffle random: 1 # FWIW
<Lempface> it actually worked perfectly, I needed to randomly shuffle an array but have a way to shuffle it that way everytime
<Lempface> here is a bit I'd like to improve however, if you have an array of objects, and you would like to located one by name, array.index(name) does not work, I ended up creating a new array of the object.name and then finding the index, seems like it could be done better
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<burgestrand> Lempface: array.find_index { |object| object.name == name }
<burgestrand> or just array.find { |object| object.name == name } if you want the object and not the index.
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<Lempface> perfect!
<Lempface> didn't notice index took a block
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<Lempface> irc is flooding w/ his in and outs
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<Lempface> solitaire cipher : http://pastebin.com/uU2Z6ghW
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<matti> Lempface: Cool.
<Lempface> mind testing it?
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<andrewvos> `gem install minitest`
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<z3r00ld> hello folks, i am trying to use net/ssh and getting this error "/usr/lib/ruby/1.8/net/http.rb:567:in `initialize': can't convert OpenSSL::X509::Certificate into String (TypeError)"
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* jaimef hunts for a way to increase the timeout on net/ssh
<andrewvos> z3r00ld: Maybe it doesn't need a class, it needs a string?
<andrewvos> z3r00ld: Perhaps the parameters you're passing is something like :pem_path?
<andrewvos> parameter*
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<zenspider> chris2: oi. gist.el is yours, right?
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<z3r00ld> andrewvos: openssl reads the certificates correctly, i checked it separately, it seems the issue with net/http
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<andrewvos> Oh
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<erikh> Oh
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<eam> oh oh oh, the right stuff
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<erikh> I could have gone the rest of my life without recalling that song in my head. thanks for that.
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