DocScrutinizer05 changed the topic of #qi-hardware to: Copyleft hardware - http://qi-hardware.com | hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben / atusb 802.15.4 wireless, and other community driven hw projects | public logging at http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs and http://irclog.whitequark.org/qi-hardware
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<nicksydney> very quiet !
<nicksydney> not even a soul showing
<nicksydney> wonder what people are doing
<nicksydney> ping !
<wpwrak> indeed, eerily quiet
<larsc> haven't you heard?
<nicksydney> what haven't i heard ? someone open sourced Mali ? :)
<larsc> this channel is bugged
<larsc> you have to type very quiet
<nicksydney> shhhhh....no noise...just tip toe-ing
<wpwrak> nsalogger is everywhere
<nicksydney> googling AT91SAM7 on the image section comes out with LOTS of schematic interesting
<nicksydney> seems like it's a very widely used IC
<wpwrak> perhaps a bit more obso than leet these days ?
<nicksydney> but seems very powerful than what are available eh ?
<nicksydney> compared to arduino or m0 or m3 or m4
<wpwrak> powerful ? compared to m4 ?
<wpwrak> even a lowly f3 should run circles around it
<nicksydney> how come ? in what way ? thought it the AT91SAM7 is 32 bit and have more power ?
<CYB3R_ng> As far as i can remember AT91SAM7 is very old ARM
<nicksydney> so in terms of code execution (in layman terms) it is slow compared to the new architecture ?
<ysionneau> because it's an old ARM7 core
<wpwrak> m0/m3/m4 ... are 32 bit as well :)
<ysionneau> (ARM7TDMI)
<ysionneau> using armv3 instruction set
<wpwrak> it should win the competition against an arduino, though. i mean, what doesn't ? even an abacus should beat it
<nicksydney> "using armv3 instruction set"....ahhh i've read somewhere if not mistaken the new architecture like Cortex-A5,A8,A9 uses armv7
<nicksydney> "even an abacus should beat it" .... now now....:)
<ysionneau> nicksydney: the thing is not to mix up arm instruction set and the arm core numbering
<nicksydney> now this is something that all of us can do with all the PCBs we have lying around http://www.seeedstudio.com/blog/2014/05/20/pcb-death-rebirth/ :)
<ysionneau> ARM7 != armv7
<ysionneau> ARM7 is armv3 and it's quite old
<nicksydney> ysionneau: oh ok
<pcercuei> armv4*
<ysionneau> Cortex A/R/M are armv7(A/R/M)
<ysionneau> which is much recent
<wpwrak> also just in terms of clock speed. a mean, even the rather bottom-end M0+ i use does 48 MHz. e.g., STM32F3 (M3) would be 120 MHz, F4 160 MHz (or maybe a few more, don't remember)
<ysionneau> (except Cortex-A5x which are armv8a 64bits)
<wpwrak> #s/a mean/i mean/
<ysionneau> ah sorry ARM7 is armv3 but the AT91SAM7 is using ARM7TDMI which is armv4T
<ysionneau> but still it's old and the clock is something like 70 MHz max
<nicksydney> interesting
<nicksydney> the price of Cortex-A5 is expensive compared to A8/A9
<nicksydney> where A8/A9 is more powerful than A5 no ?
<ysionneau> yes
<ysionneau> but A5 is "low power"
<ysionneau> and I guess it takes less die surface
<nicksydney> supposedly they came out with A5 for low power devices compared to A8/A9
<ysionneau> it's the new "low power application processor armv7" for low end "smart phone"
<ysionneau> they will try to reach the $25 boundary for smart phones with that
<pcercuei> I'd love a MIPS chip with those specs
<ysionneau> MIPS is trying to come in the Android / smartphone run as well
<ysionneau> they have a port of Android
<ysionneau> I think there are a few android devices under MIPS
<ysionneau> MIPS Warrior series 5 CPUs I think
<CYB3R_ng> Most of Android based smart-watch use JZ4775, Xburst MIPS
<ysionneau> ah ok I didn't know that Android was already running on old MIPS cores
<CYB3R_ng> ingenic provided android images for all of it's recent socs
<nicksydney> ysionneau: yes few Android based MIPS phones has been released
<CYB3R_ng> and few tablets as well
<ysionneau> nicksydney: do you have the phone names ?
<ysionneau> I am interested :)
<ysionneau> CYB3R_ng: cool!
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<pcercuei> < ysionneau> I am interested :)
<pcercuei> me too, actually
<CYB3R_ng> So, related SoCs are: ATM7013, ATM7019, JZ4760, JZ4770, JZ4775, JZ4780
<pcercuei> unfortunately they are far from being able to compete with the latest ARM chips
<ysionneau> sure
<ysionneau> but very good for low end tablets/phones
<ysionneau> and if it runs Android, you could port Firefox OS as well
<ysionneau> The JIT engine of SpiderMonkey also has a MIPS backend
<nicksydney> CYB3R_ng: yeah the ARM based low end chinese tablet and dongle now uses ACTION chip
<nicksydney> the problem is they don't release the kernel code for some model if not mistaken
<CYB3R_ng> but ingenic does
<CYB3R_ng> So JZ47XX are prefered
<nicksydney> CYB3R_ng: are they up to date with the Android version ?
<CYB3R_ng> not sure, let me check
<CYB3R_ng> is Android-JB(4.3) actual version?
<nicksydney> yup that's the last jelly bean version after than is Kit Kat
<pcercuei> we have a 3.12 kernel for jz4770
<nicksydney> pcercuei: have you ever tested the video performance for jz4770 ?
<nicksydney> wonder how these chip performed for video/audio
<pcercuei> I guess they do pretty well, they have dedicated hardware for video decoding
<CYB3R_ng> It has Vivante GC860 graphics, so I guess it's very good.
<CYB3R_ng> And vivante driver is opensource, if i'm not mistaken.
<ysionneau> oh really? nice
<nicksydney> will be interesting to use jz4770 for dev board for Android
<nicksydney> for learning purpose
<pcercuei> CYB3R_ng: but it's not the GPU which does the video decoding
<CYB3R_ng> pcercuei: really? i thought it should
<CYB3R_ng> oh, I see
<CYB3R_ng> > 1080p video decoding unit for H.264, VC-1 and VP8 (a secondary 500 MHz MIPS processor with SIMD extension)
<pcercuei> the SoC has a second mips core that runs at 500 MHz, with its own memory mapping; it is used to access the hardware decoding blocks
<pcercuei> there is code for that already: https://github.com/IngenicSemiconductor/XBDEMUX
<CYB3R_ng> there should be no problem with video decoding then
<pcercuei> in theory
<pcercuei> nobody tried that code :)
<CYB3R_ng> Well, I had hard time trying to start my own jz47 board. I hope, some day I may switch to jz4770 and try.
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<whitequark> a wild DocScrutinizer05 appears!
<wpwrak> and speaks in riddles :)
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<DocScrutinizer05> riddles?
<DocScrutinizer05> which riddles?
<DocScrutinizer05> kyak seems to have claimed no announcement or update since days
<wpwrak> aah ! that was the connection
<DocScrutinizer05> I suspected he simply missed the thread
<wpwrak> how did the meeting with the tax advisor go ?
<DocScrutinizer05> it's in 50 min
<DocScrutinizer05> I'll just ask him how to avoid the mistakes we did with last fundraiser wording
<wpwrak> ah, highlight of the day still ahead :) good luck then, may the clarity be with you !
<wpwrak> yes :)
<DocScrutinizer05> promising a fixed defined rebate instantly creates a contract. We need to find better wording
<wpwrak> apropos ... you once mentioned that the tax guys said it's not possible to make "donations" to a company
<DocScrutinizer05> yes, only "schenkungen"
<DocScrutinizer05> "spende" only applies to charity and church
<wpwrak> i wonder if this is true. i poked around a bit and couldn't see any obstacle for donations
<DocScrutinizer05> it's again a wording wanking in law
<wpwrak> ONLY for donations that also have tax benefits. but if you don't claim such benefits, it ought to be fine
<wpwrak> alas, it's very common to confuse "donation" with "tax-deductible donation"
<DocScrutinizer05> well, whatever. There's no such thing like "Spende" - unless tax-deducable
<DocScrutinizer05> a non tax-deducable spende is a schenkung
<wpwrak> apparently not. schenkung implies no expectation. spende implies that it's for a certain purpose.
<DocScrutinizer05> and a schenkung may not get any "payback" or goods or promises in return, or it becomes a contract
<wpwrak> e.g., a donation to Neo900 UG would have the motive of furthering the development of that platform.
<DocScrutinizer05> whatever, that's a question for my tax adviser
<wpwrak> yes. that's why i'm bringing this up
<DocScrutinizer05> whatever it is, we can't promise a rebate for it
<wpwrak> i get the impression that there may be a middle ground between a gift (schenkung, no strings attached) and a contract
<wpwrak> no, a rebate would go too far
<wpwrak> but something alone the lines "we want to design the Neo900 platform and are asking for support" may work
<DocScrutinizer05> I might be allowed to promise membership in a "club" that offers premium service and discount offers to the members
<wpwrak> that's also an option. or a cooperative. etc. there are many ways
<DocScrutinizer05> cooperative is way too much organizational overhead
<DocScrutinizer05> and a cooperative would again imply contracts
<DocScrutinizer05> afk, busy with tax adviser
<wpwrak> a club may have the problem that if can't accumulate revenue, though
<wpwrak> #s/if/it/
<wpwrak> or, rather: if can accumulate but it can't pay it out
<DocScrutinizer05> a club isn't a defined term of any kind
<wpwrak> well, "verein"
<DocScrutinizer05> as long as not "eingetragen" a verein doesn't exist
<DocScrutinizer05> and ADAC is an e.V
<DocScrutinizer05> I'm not going e.V. for this, too much overhead
<wpwrak> is a non-e V a juridical person ? if not, you'd have full liability
<DocScrutinizer05> I'll blatantly go "you'll have to trust me"
<wpwrak> it's not about anyone trusting you but you trusting everyone else
<wpwrak> everyone, including all the trolls of the world
<DocScrutinizer05> meh
<wpwrak> with limited liability your personal belongings (and those of any other members) are safe
<DocScrutinizer05> we currently got enough funds (when we manage to transfer tem)
<DocScrutinizer05> and those transfers are to UG, not me
<wpwrak> and the UG has limited liability ?
<DocScrutinizer05> and they won't create any new contract or liability
<DocScrutinizer05> UG *is* limited liability
<wpwrak> okay, good
<DocScrutinizer05> GmbH
<wpwrak> well, let's see what your advisor has to say
<DocScrutinizer05> when I manage to show up there
<wpwrak> yeah, i'll stop bothering you until you're back ;)
<wpwrak> ah, one more thing: i found this nice comparison chart. from austria but i supposed things should be similar across the border: http://koop.bjb.at/bilder/AnhangRechtsformvergleich.pdf
<wpwrak> (that's from an organization that tries to promote cooperatives)
<kyak> DocScrutinizer05: yeah, i definitely missed that one
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<DocScrutinizer51> hmm, tax adviser recommends lawyer
<wpwrak> handing over the hot potato :)
<wpwrak> what that all (s)he said ?
<DocScrutinizer51> basicallyh yes
<wpwrak> wow :)
<wpwrak> and, got anyone you can ask ?
<DocScrutinizer51> I may publish UG account and receive payments
<wpwrak> that's already a good step forward
<DocScrutinizer51> he recxommended a lawyer
<wpwrak> with what specialization ?
<DocScrutinizer51> for any "promises" (aka fineprint) that comes with the UG account webpage, I need a lawyer
<DocScrutinizer51> dunno specialization of Mr Hoffman
<DocScrutinizer51> he mentioned "tantieme" and "dividende" but I need to ask the lawyer about details
<wpwrak> ah, he told you where to go. perfect.
<wpwrak> the terminology sounds good. do you have a concrete plan for how you want the project to run in the long term, business-wise ? i.e., do you want to operate on crowdfunding alone, possibly seek investors, ... ? also, do you want the "donations" to be considered gifts/donations/some form of contract ? maybe have the option to choose among multiple choices ?
<wpwrak> then, what do you plan to create revenue with ? selling things ? selling services ? selling "intellectual property" ?
<wpwrak> and then, where does the revenue go ? will you have partners, shareholders, or similar ? will you have a big pile of money just in the organization, to be used in there (e.g., for advance the project or to finance similar future activities) ?
<DocScrutinizer51> no, the plan is to get a production-ready Neo900 from the funds we already have, then open normal order (webshop) site and start MP (with ensurance) from the order payments that come in
<wpwrak> so revenue will come from "donations" and selling devices
<DocScrutinizer51> revenue? which revenue?
<DocScrutinizer51> ;)
<wpwrak> what you get from selling devices. unless you plan to sell "at cost" ;-)
<DocScrutinizer51> nah, I planned for a maybe 10% revenue
<wpwrak> btw, just as an aside, also anything "not profit-oriented" doesn't exclude lush compensations for those doing it
<wpwrak> 10% for you at the end of the day ?
<DocScrutinizer51> kinda
<DocScrutinizer51> UG is subcontracting basically eeverything
<wpwrak> so no sprawling "joerg industrial park" on google maps anytime soon
<DocScrutinizer51> depending on how stuff pans out, those might be 3 or even 0 percent in the end
<DocScrutinizer51> eventually (next month or the one after) I gonna pay myself a monthly "salary"
<wpwrak> very good
<DocScrutinizer51> any revenue coming in at end of project is a bonus
<wpwrak> do you plan to share this bonus with anyone ? nik, dos1, maybe others ?
<DocScrutinizer51> othersw, no. Nik. unclear (though I'd prefer to share with him), Dos yes
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<wpwrak> good. you may have to have to consider such information when you get things started in earnest. dunno if you have to explicitly declare it somehow/somewhere. but your lawyer will tell you that.
<DocScrutinizer51> no need to declare anything
<DocScrutinizer51> this is a UG no AG
<wpwrak> from nik's concerns i get the vibe that it may help to have such things clearly stated. not for shareholders but for tax audits (or their avoidance)
<wpwrak> do you know how to do the bookkeeping and such ?
<DocScrutinizer51> meh, that's my tax adviser's job
<wpwrak> so you'll see him quite often :)
<wpwrak> well, or mail
<DocScrutinizer51> well, I take all invoices and bills to tax adviser once per month
<wpwrak> sounds reasonable
<wpwrak> when will you meed that lawyer ?
<DocScrutinizer51> I wouldn't have cosnidered starting Neo900 when it wouldn't sound reasonable. I'm allergic to that stuff
<DocScrutinizer51> dunno
<DocScrutinizer51> too late today to give him a call
<wpwrak> (alergic) welcome to the club ;-)
<DocScrutinizer51> initially the idea been that GDC does the accounting, but we forgot that this also means full responsibility
<wpwrak> what's the plan for the rights and ownership of the gta04 side of neo900 ? i.e., nik's stuff. as far as i understand it, a lot is basically the same, isn't it ?
<DocScrutinizer51> well, yes, I dunno yet. Doesn't matter too much
<wpwrak> (fully responsibility) well, for the accounting. you could still screw up anything else on your own responsibility :)
<wpwrak> (gta04) not ? will there be so little left of it ?
<DocScrutinizer51> obviously when UG pays for hw developmewnt then UG holds the rights in the derived work
<wpwrak> well, in the "delta". not in the original work that underlies it.
<DocScrutinizer51> I don't care too much if those are exclusive rights
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<DocScrutinizer51> no, since we can't build devices from delta
<wpwrak> that's one part. the other are publishing rights and such
<wpwrak> still, without any other agreement, you can only "own" the delta. so you need to discuss this. doens't have to be complex, but you have to have clarity.
<DocScrutinizer51> delta to what?
<DocScrutinizer51> UG orders schematics, layout, and even CE et al approval for a device at GDC
<DocScrutinizer51> meant to get produced and published
<DocScrutinizer51> GDC can't deliver any 'delta'
<wpwrak> you basically have the following rights that should matter: 1) use for production, 2) publication (schematics, layout, EDA files), whole or in part, 3) preventing others from using it (that's the "exclusive" right - to exclude others), 4) grant/transfer/license any of your rights to others
<wpwrak> (delta) i mean the changes that you make/made to the gta04 design
<DocScrutinizer51> yep
<wpwrak> oh, and 5) credits (mentioning of original authorship)
<DocScrutinizer51> from that pov there's no gta04
<wpwrak> so it's a complete redesign from reference designs et al. ?
<DocScrutinizer51> but 1..5 is something that's pretty clear for 1 2 3 and not important for 4 5
<DocScrutinizer51> (redesign) UG doesn't care
<wpwrak> well, if it's a new work by the UG, then GDC holds no rights. if neo900 is an enhanced gta04 design, GDC does hold rights.
<wpwrak> of course GDC can just you have them (well, most of them)
<DocScrutinizer51> look, GTA04 is a baegleboard redesign
<DocScrutinizer51> there is no copyright in schematics
<DocScrutinizer51> there's maybe IP in footprints, and that's sth to get sorted between GDC and UG
<wpwrak> not sure about schematics. they do have an element of graphical "art", so that may very well protected. the netlist, the distilled technical information, may be a different story, though
<DocScrutinizer51> exactly
<wpwrak> and yes, anything layout is almost certainly copyrightable
<wpwrak> and yes, you have to sort that out. just checking that it's on your agenda ;-)
<whitequark> not "almost". layout ~ artwork
<whitequark> copyright is funny, it treats schematics like artwork and code like novels
<wpwrak> whitequark: with law, there's never any total certainty :)
<whitequark> fine :)
<wpwrak> (novels) you'd see why if you used a language that lets you freely express yourself ;-)
<DocScrutinizer51> that's the tax approach as well
<wpwrak> (tax) heh, indeed :)
<whitequark> DocScrutinizer51: ... treating code like novels? or never any total certainty?
<whitequark> if former, I'm afraid to even ask what unimaginable horror it results in
<DocScrutinizer51> latter
<DocScrutinizer51> see the bitvhing of estel about eagle project files. I told him there are GDC assets in layout, but for now we don't care about that detail. Initially I suggested Nik should sell the IP to UG so it could get published. We never finished that discussion
<DocScrutinizer51> well, sell the right to publish
<DocScrutinizer51> he will need to sell the right to use anyway
<whitequark> well, the question of layouts is largely academic anyway
<DocScrutinizer51> otherwise UG can't build devices
<whitequark> I mean, layouts being open-source. it's a philosophical point more than a practical one
<wpwrak> whitequark: as far as i know, none of this is open in neo900
<DocScrutinizer51> (academic) not when it comes to publishing the leayout files
<whitequark> wpwrak: I know
<wpwrak> and also things that are open sometimes need enforcing. see gpl-violations.org
<whitequark> I mean, we can hardly set up one company to produce the boards. I wouldn't worry about being able to set up another in some unknown future
<whitequark> since in five years most of the chips will be EOL anyway
<whitequark> or even earlier than chips, those funky connectors DocScrutinizer51 had immense trouble sourcing
<DocScrutinizer51> sure
<DocScrutinizer51> it's just for fools like estel and friends who think "it MUST be OPEN"
<whitequark> hence "philosophical"
<wpwrak> connectors are always fun. but creating a company can also be done to protect assets. e.g., if there was a "galaxy inc.", apple couldn't sue samsung
<DocScrutinizer51> starts to become a PITA when those suckers accuse you to abuse the term 'open device'
<wpwrak> i wouldn't call a strong desire for openness foolish
<whitequark> wpwrak: but Samsung *did* copy Apple's design, right? not sure what you're arguing for
<DocScrutinizer51> openness of gerber?
<whitequark> (even if Apple selected a method of enforcing their point of view that couldn't be more evil)
<wpwrak> DocScrutinizer51: open source, so the design files. gerber is already an output
<DocScrutinizer51> openness of silicon purification process?
<whitequark> that's probably already open
<whitequark> described in academic papers. go and DIY!
<DocScrutinizer51> layout is trivial, go and DIY
<wpwrak> whitequark: what i mean is that, if samsung had set up a company specifically for that product, apple would have a harder time getting gazillions out of this
<whitequark> wpwrak: that's really hard to say, apple has a lot of power. they'd apply it in some other way
<whitequark> bribe the right guy? (they call it 'lobbying')
<wpwrak> schematics and layout are useful when you want to add things, when you want to fix things, when you want to learn how to do things, when you want to make new devices when joerg retires to some pacific island, and so on
<DocScrutinizer51> ok, afk, since too OT for my tiny screen and kbd
<whitequark> I thought schematics would be accessible?
<whitequark> (although "accessible" may not always mean "can be reused in a successor device"
<DocScrutinizer51> schematics yes, component placement yes. Layout? NO
<wpwrak> DocScrutinizer51: i'll nag you more about this later, when things are calmer ;-)
<wpwrak> whitequark: (bribe) perhaps. but they'd have to spend a fair bit of time on that first obstacle. win a first lawsuit to let them draw samsung into it, then go through the appeals and revision process, and only then, years layer, they could proceed to the actual case
<whitequark> I think it went on for some years either way
<wpwrak> err, years laTer
<DocScrutinizer51> anyway Neo900 never promised to be free hw project, we promised to provide an open device
<wpwrak> yes, but you could easily double that
<whitequark> and even then, samsung updates their lineage so fast, any past decisions quickly get outdated
<DocScrutinizer51> and we clearly specified what we will provide
<DocScrutinizer51> I'm not going to defend the not-yet decision about publishing layout of Neo900 against a sucker who calls me names
<DocScrutinizer51> "not arduino style? no layout? forget it!" ok, piss off sucker
<wpwrak> DocScrutinizer51: you know that it's a bad idea to go shopping when you're hungry, because you'll buy a lot more than you need. given that the human mind works like this, now isn't the best time to discuss proper openness.
<DocScrutinizer51> tell that estel
<wpwrak> and yes, WHERE ARE THE CONNECTORS FOR MY A-R-D-U-I-N-O SHIELDS ? 5 V !?
<wpwrak> also estel may calm down :)
<DocScrutinizer51> even my promise to consider that later was no good for him
<wpwrak> in that line of work it helps to grow a reasonably thick skin :)
<DocScrutinizer51> in that context it helps to kick
<whitequark> ... physically
<wpwrak> too much effort
<DocScrutinizer51> you don't want suckers like him badmouthing you and the project
<DocScrutinizer51> because you didn't explain to him already what IS layout and why he doesn't need it
<DocScrutinizer51> "dunno whats gerber files but you disclose them or you're rogue"
<DocScrutinizer51> jackass
<wpwrak> i'd be interested in the layout. well, in a form i can read. eagle wouldn't do me much good.
<DocScrutinizer51> indeed
<DocScrutinizer51> and you can get all 8 layers as pdf any time
<wpwrak> publishing all the stuff also enables you to get external reviews
<DocScrutinizer51> but NOOOOO, estel insists in eagle .brd
<wpwrak> well, .brd is the most complete form. so that makes sense, if he's able to process it. but then, even if he isn't, someone else could produce the kind of extracts he'd find useful. (that is, if he's really interested ... i'm always a bit suspicious of the types who mention FSF approval)
<DocScrutinizer51> check out tmo neo900 subtread "is it fair to call 100% open..."
<DocScrutinizer51> swalking, afk
<DocScrutinizer51> waking even
<DocScrutinizer51> o/
<wpwrak> i think i spotted it but then decided that i didn't have to contribute to it at the moment (and you know my point of view on openness already)
<wpwrak> heh, swaying ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05> openness is ok when you can do it. Bitching wanna be customers who complain about not getting more than been promised are not ok
<DocScrutinizer05> bitching jackass calling you names and sprading lies about you is absolutely not ok at all
* DocScrutinizer05 ponders trying the Estel way: go to next pub, pick one of the dudes sitting there and start bitching at him about he shall buy you a beer and a vodka. Calling him names and explaining that he's always been a stingy sucker and an antisocial hooligan who beats up every pub he visits. Then when he tells me to stop, spit in his face and wait for others to stand up and tell something like >>Everyone has there own problems in
<DocScrutinizer05> real life, and we come here to just relax and have some fun and do/make things that we like, not to fight!<<
<DocScrutinizer05> will definitely make for a great evening
<qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: modules/stdpass.fpd (xtal2-3.2mmx1.5mm): add crystal footprint (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/bd36637
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<paul_boddie> Wasn't the guy complaining the guy who was making aluminium cases for the N900 or was that someone else?
<wpwrak> aluminium cases ? oh dear
<DocScrutinizer05> yes, exactly
<paul_boddie> Have you asked him for the CAD files? ;-)
<wpwrak> the complete chemical specifications of the plastics, please :)
<DocScrutinizer05> paul_boddie: brilliant!
<DocScrutinizer05> ;-P
<CYB3R_ng> I didn't know that kicad-libs repo is for fped files
<CYB3R_ng> Maybe I can add my libs too
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<nicksydney> DocScrutinizer05: well come back to the virtual reality :) been a while seeing you around
<nicksydney> added Micrel chip for the 3.3v regulator
<nicksydney> for the TPS board
<nicksydney> once this board is complete got the power supply sorted out for the TFT and then the fun begin of soldering the BIG 100pin chip
<nicksydney> there must be some chip out there that can give you multiple output - eg: 24v, -24v and few output like 3.3 and 1.6/1.8v ?