<DocScrutinizer05>
like "who ever needs more than 640kB RAM in his computer"?
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<DocScrutinizer05>
wpwrak: also aiui the recent devicetree crap in kernel makes it almost impossible to NOT boot on different systems, resp to build a device specific kernel space at all
<DocScrutinizer05>
seems absolutely everything in kernel space is universal now and just configures itself according to devicetree, during boot. No?
<DocScrutinizer05>
anything that doesn't has no chance at all to go upstream
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<wpwrak>
i just wonder if there's any significant number of people who'd actually use a gta04 and a neo900 in parallel
<wpwrak>
also, subtract these who are more than capable of helping themselves, if anything goes wrong
<wpwrak>
and the world is full of binaries that can probably do much worse things to the neo900. we don't worry about these either, do we ? :)
<DocScrutinizer05>
I don't see where you're aiming at. We need a proper hw latform ID on Neo900, sth that's more than "rev 7 of GTA04" encoded into 3 bits
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<wpwrak>
DocScrutinizer05: i just mean the whole concept of putting a kernel/system on the wrong platform. it's simply not a common occurrence in real life. but yes, you need that ID, though for other reasons.
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<whitequark>
wpwrak: any idea for a victim material other than wood?
<whitequark>
ooh, hm, say some soft plastic (NOT acrylic). MDPE?
<whitequark>
I wonder where can I get a thick sheet of MDPE
<whitequark>
wow, it is *expensive*. 12mm sheet 1500x3000 is over $250
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<wpwrak>
12 mm - why so thick ? 1-2 mm would be plenty
<wpwrak>
pertinax is also good. not sure how well it resists water, though, being modified paper
<wpwrak>
soft plastic sounds like a good idea. i guess even acrylic wouldn't be all bad, given that you'd have coolant all around it
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<whitequark>
wpwrak: I eventually selected a 3mm sheet from amazon; RU vendors don't send it in lesss than 2000x1000 sizes, and I already have enough crap lying around
<whitequark>
(acrylic not bad) but what if I want to cut up a PCB or wood, where there's no coolant?
<whitequark>
it'll cost me even more broken endmills
<whitequark>
read the reviews and Q&A, they're priceless
<whitequark>
5 stars "Don't light indoors. Don't light indoors with it cut up and mixed with potassium nitrate."
<whitequark>
6 of 6 people found the following review helpful
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<whitequark>
by the way, if the coolant keeps being thrown around like that, I'll verify DocScrutinizer05's suggestion about immersing PC underwater
<whitequark>
I would have already cut up a box to enclose the CNC machine in, but I need a bigger CNC machine to make that box
<whitequark>
ad inifinitum
<DocScrutinizer05>
suggestion????
<DocScrutinizer05>
I *asked* if you *did* it. Never _suggested_ it
<DocScrutinizer05>
for your "box" I anyway *suggest* using a 5mm steel wire to bend a rectangle shape and stick plastic foil sheets to it to make a nice curtain around your CNC
<whitequark>
ooooh, that's actually a very great idea
<whitequark>
thanks
<DocScrutinizer05>
much more convenient than a *box*
<whitequark>
exactly!
<DocScrutinizer05>
and cheaper
<DocScrutinizer05>
once your CNC station is finalized, I probably should get a poster to stick to my wall above my desk
<DocScrutinizer05>
I'll use a transparent marker pen of my fav color then, to mark all the details I would've done exactly same way ;-)
<whitequark>
:D
<whitequark>
sure, you'll have plenty of images of it
<DocScrutinizer05>
actually I guess I will use up two markers ;-P
<DocScrutinizer05>
of course depends on how far those last, and on size of poster
* whitequark
is cutting up some more acrylic
<whitequark>
and for I think the first time, I do it during the daytime
<DocScrutinizer05>
friggin EU elections, have to leave my flat for that, stop the hell spawn TTIP
<whitequark>
ttip?
<whitequark>
oh
<whitequark>
oh crap
<DocScrutinizer05>
EU-US free trade shit
<whitequark>
"free trade" aka "we get to control you even more than now", right?
<DocScrutinizer05>
US assraping whole EU
<DocScrutinizer05>
us companies (!!) can sue EU states(!!) for billions of compensation when they are not happy with EU laws
<DocScrutinizer05>
court is a commission of "experts" meeting behind closed doors
<DocScrutinizer05>
ROTFL
<DocScrutinizer05>
is bisphenol-A forbidden for food packaging plastic in US now, or not?
<DocScrutinizer05>
and BEER!! what they sell as "beer" is US is ridiculous
<whitequark>
tl;dr: no. The National Toxicology Program does not make regulatory recommendations. With respect to neurological and developmental outcomes of BPA, the Program stated that “additional research is needed to more fully assess the functional, long-term impacts of exposures to bisphenol A on the developing brain and behavior.”[
<whitequark>
(as of 2013 at least)
<DocScrutinizer05>
supporting the industry’s actions facilitating the development supporting efforts FDA is seeking FDA is not recommending
<DocScrutinizer05>
thought as much
<DocScrutinizer05>
EU forbids production of vacuum cleaner with more than dunno 1000W, starting RSN. Wonder what US manufacturers will think about it
<wpwrak>
it's silly restriction anyway
<whitequark>
the hell EU has against vacuum cleaners?
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, actually I think the EU is plain wrong here, but it nevertheless would be a first quite obvious case for US companies sue EU states for not allowing the US products on their market
<wpwrak>
but yes, free trade = subjugation
<DocScrutinizer05>
EU wants to ban inefficient products and improve the overall energy efficiency. They are idiots to start with stuff like incandescent lamps and vacuum cleaners
<DocScrutinizer05>
and they are absolute indiotic jackasses to *forbid* that stuff nstead of simply charging it with taxes to make it inattractive
<whitequark>
contraband vacuum cleaners!
<whitequark>
welcome to 21st century
<wpwrak>
seems that they took some hints from exemplary countries like venezuela and argentina
<wpwrak>
anyway, gotta get ready for the feast
<DocScrutinizer05>
first think EU should forbid are single-block aircons - the ones that have a tube out the open(!) window for blowing out the hot air from heat pump. Of course for each cunic meter of hot air the monoblock blows out the window, somewhere new hot air from outside enters the room
<DocScrutinizer05>
cubic*
<DocScrutinizer05>
thing* - damn!
<DocScrutinizer05>
those are really about the most stupic technical devices I ever seen
<DocScrutinizer05>
if at least they had TWO tubes, one for blowing out the heated air, and another one for getting fresh not-so-hot air from outside, for cooling the condenser... but noooo, they take the air for cooling the condenser from the room air
<DocScrutinizer05>
the same air they just cooled down on evaporator side, and then they heat it up again and blow it out the window
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's actually surprising that those critters are able to lower room temperature at all
<DocScrutinizer05>
EU does some good regulations as well, e.g. for fridges
<DocScrutinizer05>
at least I guess they do
<DocScrutinizer05>
anyway with TTIP we had to eat all their toxic waste, since we couldn't even tell where there's none of it in any of our food
<DocScrutinizer05>
and of course we couldn't even sue the US microwave ofen manufacturer for not telling EU citizens to "not use oven to dry cat!"
<DocScrutinizer05>
So basically US companies can sell in EU the crap they can't sell in US
<DocScrutinizer05>
as long as they were _allowed_ to sell it, just would break their neck since US customers would sue them
<DocScrutinizer05>
in EU no risk of getting sued, so... "Oh damn! stop shipping to US, direct all shipments to EU!"
<DocScrutinizer05>
whitequark: I already seriously pondered to contraband incandescent lamps
<DocScrutinizer05>
whitequark: how long will russian people tolerate or even ignore or not notice/question the lies they are told by Putin-controlled russian media about Ukraine?
<DocScrutinizer05>
how long will they applaud the obvious and even admitted lies Putin himself is telled all day long?
<DocScrutinizer05>
is telling*
<DocScrutinizer05>
He admitted in a life show in Russian TV that regular Russian army been in Crimea al the time from very beginning, something he outright denied just a week before
<DocScrutinizer05>
live*
<DocScrutinizer05>
Is there a mentality in Russia similar to that in some muslim countries that considers lying to the enemy a honorable thing, and an enemy that doesn't shoot the liar right away is a chicken and an idiot?
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: (gif) it's some aliasing glitch in the OpenSCAM renderer
<whitequark>
it's funny
<whitequark>
(putin) why are you asking me? I'm hardly representative for all russian people
<whitequark>
but if you want a guess...
<whitequark>
actually, no guesses. I don't have any insight whatsoever into a typical football (or is it hockey today?) fan screaming something under my window after consuming a sixpack of beer
<whitequark>
I doubt logic or reflection ever crosses that mind
<wpwrak>
it also seems that DocScrutinizer05 is exposed to large doses of western propaganda. as far as i can tell, putin isn't doing anything half as bad as the US had done without the west even getting concerned.
<whitequark>
could also be that muslims are "those non-people" and eastern europeans evoke at least some feeling of kinship
<whitequark>
(not as much directed to DocScrutinizer05 but to west in general.)
<wpwrak>
yes, that's quite possible. of course, "muslims" would then also have to include a number of other people, asians, latinos, etc.
<DocScrutinizer05>
wpwrak: again, since you seem to have forgotten about last time I tild you: I', not listening to any propaganda, and asling about putin's lies is hardly related to any such propaganda even when I would do
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<DocScrutinizer05>
please reread your own statement one before last and try to see how little sense it makes
<DocScrutinizer05>
whitequark: thanks! I see, it's hard for anybody with a sane mind to guess about what the plebs will do
<DocScrutinizer05>
wpwrak: when you honestly think that you need to ignore what Russia does to destabilize Ukraine, just so you demonstrate that you're not suffering from influence of western propaganda, then I guess you're already hopelessly brainwashed by eastern propaganda, since that#s exactly what Russia basically tries to transport with all the lies they spread
<DocScrutinizer05>
when you think a past crime done by A justifies a crime now B is doing, then I wonder what's your concept of humanity
<whitequark>
I didn't use acrylic because constantly hauling water for 40+ minutes is not something I'm looking forward to
<DocScrutinizer05>
why don't you place the pump under the table into the bucket where the water gathers?
<whitequark>
well, let's start with the fact that I want to phase out the table-and-bucket thing completely
<whitequark>
because water slowly kills the table, inexplicably oozing through some not-enough-sealed edges and making the MDF expand
<whitequark>
granted, I bought this table specifically as a worktable, and I'll leave it in RU most likely, but it's still not nice
<DocScrutinizer05>
:nod:
<whitequark>
then continue to the fact that there is a LOT of pulp that results from milling acrylic
<whitequark>
like, I recently milled several parts with total edge length somewhere under 1m, and there's several cubic cm of acrylic chips
<whitequark>
I'm not sure I want to recirculate that
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah
<whitequark>
the pump *probably* wouldn't give a fuck, the nozzle has some likelihood of clogging, and the endmill for sure doesn't want to recut chips
<DocScrutinizer05>
that's the whole point of using water ;-)
<whitequark>
exactly
<DocScrutinizer05>
avoid recut
<whitequark>
well, and cooling
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, and cooling
<whitequark>
ahem :)
<whitequark>
with my new system, it's really great. before I made it truly flood, the chips still stayed there, they just didn't get too much in the way of endmill
<whitequark>
with the Enhanced Flow™, there is absolutely no chips in the work area
<DocScrutinizer05>
how about using tap water for source, and the pump to move the gathered waste water to the sewer?
<DocScrutinizer05>
for extra credits on leeteness, use a electromagnetic valve from an old washing machine to automatically start tap water via CNC controller (e.g. a relais in parallel to spindle motor, or whatever)
<whitequark>
no need for weird setups, the box has an output specially for that (I'd still need the relay though)
<roh>
whitequark: what are you milling that you cant cool with oil-mist and or air?
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: tap water... this would involve almost 10m of tubing. not too good
<whitequark>
roh: acrylic
<whitequark>
if I don't use water, it destroys my endmills pretty much immediately and/or has really shitty finish, basically just melted bumpy crap
<whitequark>
oil-mist? like hell I'm going to have everything covered in oil. everything covered is water is bad enough already (remember I'm not american and don't have a dedicated garage, just a tiny apartment.)
<DocScrutinizer05>
:nod: in line with common knowledge as of the intarwebs
<DocScrutinizer05>
for milling acrylic, lots of water are strongly recommended
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, water anyway
<DocScrutinizer05>
given the chips make a nice slurry with the water, I think _lots_ of water are OK
<roh>
whitequark: maybe just mill slower.. not only less feed, also less rpm
<DocScrutinizer05>
NOPE
<whitequark>
roh: under 7000rpm it begins to lose power rapidly
<DocScrutinizer05>
exactly wrong
<whitequark>
and I tried to go as slow as it's sane... say 10mm/min (ten). same result
<roh>
whitequark: i see.
<DocScrutinizer05>
the slower you cut acrylic, the more it heats up
<roh>
DocScrutinizer05: only if you keep the rpm up
<DocScrutinizer05>
right
<whitequark>
yeah, that was my conclusion as well. very rapid feeds compared to slow ones, on same rpm, seem to somewhat lessen the damage, but it's bad for other reasons
<roh>
whitequark: sounds like a case to cool with water and alcohol 50/50 floodstyle
<DocScrutinizer05>
reducing RPM even more prone to clog mill with chips
<whitequark>
roh: well, I just use water right now
<whitequark>
floodstyle exactly, about 1L/5min
<roh>
maybe use metal (aluminium) clamping tools
<whitequark>
wait, are you basically suggesting I cool it down with vodka? :D
<roh>
well.. yes... and no.
<whitequark>
rofl
<roh>
you drink the vodka and give the undrinkable industrial shit to your mill
<whitequark>
(clamping tools) I have a wooden board with a set of embedded nuts, as a victim material slash fixture, but it really tends to expand and mess things up
<DocScrutinizer05>
50/50 sounds OK
<DocScrutinizer05>
maybe rather use 30/70 alc/H2O
<whitequark>
the table is Al and it's fine with water all over it. some screws are apparently Fe though and give off rust stains :( damn greedy communist
<roh>
yep. i used mdf and later multiplex as well.. but that sucks when you got more than one piece to make since it looses precision fast
<whitequark>
exactly
<whitequark>
roh: have you thought of using mdpe?
<DocScrutinizer05>
non-flammable
<roh>
mdpe?
<whitequark>
or hdpe. polyethylene, the harder kind
<roh>
DocScrutinizer05: thats fine. i want something to clamp with defineable force.. i can do that with a pressure-regulator then. pressure = force
<DocScrutinizer05>
thus you usually only use them "binary" - I.E. move to either end of actuator way
<DocScrutinizer05>
yes, for that they are ideal
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: you could have a ratio of pressures on both sides
<whitequark>
buuut you need some kind of closed loop to keep that ratio constant in face of external force
<whitequark>
and it's probably just not worth it
<DocScrutinizer05>
a friend of mine did apprentice at MAN, where the chief of the hall had an own in-hall office with windows that opened and closed with such pneumatic actuators. One day they adjusted the pressure regulator for that contraption from 0.2 to 8bar X-P
<whitequark>
haha. not even one window survived?
<DocScrutinizer05>
exactly
<whitequark>
bet he was pissed off
<DocScrutinizer05>
I guess that's true
<DocScrutinizer05>
but of course nobody confessed the prank
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: btw, why would cooling it with vodka be better than just water?
<whitequark>
alcohol has lower heat capacity
<DocScrutinizer05>
I think a) alcohol has some ointment properties, and b) it's obviously reducing the boiling temperature
<DocScrutinizer05>
a drop or two of detergent would also be wort a test, I guess
* whitequark
imagines a combination of all of the above. drunk whitequark babysitting a CNC mill soaked in vodka and constantly producing soap bubbles
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah XD
<DocScrutinizer05>
I don't think combination of detergent and alcohol is a good idea
<whitequark>
frankly I consider the smell of ethanol disgusting enough to not want to try this
<DocScrutinizer05>
the both may react with each other in quite surprising ways
<whitequark>
also if someone visits my apartment, they'll be really worried
<whitequark>
"it's... uhh... for cooling the CNC mill. yeah!"
<whitequark>
"it has ointment properties! *hiccup*"
* whitequark
coughs
<DocScrutinizer05>
others just clean windows with it
<whitequark>
DocScrutinizer05: (combination of detergent and ethanol) that sounds like a weird claim
<DocScrutinizer05>
not really, see soap immobilized hydrocarbon
<whitequark>
detergent is usually a glycerol complex ether of fatty acids
<whitequark>
or some variation thereof
<whitequark>
nothing to react with -OH
<DocScrutinizer05>
aka soap spirit, aka e.g. Esbit
<DocScrutinizer05>
ok, esbit is not exactly with soap, it seems
<DocScrutinizer05>
and I dunno if soap actually reacts with alcohol, or only with non water mixable hydrocarbon liquids