DocScrutinizer05 changed the topic of #qi-hardware to: Copyleft hardware - http://qi-hardware.com | hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben / atusb 802.15.4 wireless, and other community driven hw projects | public logging at http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs and http://irclog.whitequark.org/qi-hardware
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<apelete> morning everyone
<sanderr> Morning in the CET/UTC timezone. :)
<ysionnea1> morning !
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<apelete> could seomeone help me with details about usb "host negotiation protocol (hnp)" ?
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<apelete> experiencing an issue that seems related to hnp -> http://paste.debian.net/66079/
<sanderr> whitequark: I like that time zone, UGT! :)
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<larsc> apelete: I don't think on the jz4740 any otg stuff is supported
<whitequark> I think you don't need hw support for otg?
<whitequark> it's more or less a bunch of resistors and a set of rules for supplying the power in right states
<larsc> you need hw support
<whitequark> oh, and a usb host. that's what's missing from jz4740 :)
<whitequark> s,otg,hnp, in the first message
<larsc> hnp needs special hardware
<larsc> it's a protocol for deciding who gets to be host when two otg devices are connected to each other
<larsc> what you mean is the ID pin
<whitequark> oh, HNP is a different thing? I see
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<wpwrak> HNP is what they added when they realized that it all looked too damn simple :)
<apelete> larsc: ok, that's what I thought by reading on the internet
<apelete> so the question is why does the nanonote is trying to use hnp
<apelete> and eventually how to prevent it from using hnp
<apelete> thanks guys for the simple explanation
<DocScrutinizer05> sanderr: UGT?
<DocScrutinizer05> since infobot not here, I'll just say: good (UGT/JRTZV) morning
<sanderr> DocScrutinizer05: Universal greeting time. :)
<DocScrutinizer05> yeah
<DocScrutinizer05> and JR TimeZoneVirtual
* whitequark has posted the link already... joerg is lazy and doesn't read backlog ;)
<whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: what the hell is jrtzv? zero google hits
<DocScrutinizer05> that's not googleable because google searching on this planet only, not in virtual space dimension
<whitequark> hah
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<DocScrutinizer05> JRTZV has a perod of ~40h, though with a huge amount of jitter that nobody has found a correct formula for so far
<DocScrutinizer05> period
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<whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: in russian, we have a nice idiom, отсыпь [pour off], referring to the drugs the other party must be using, based on what they say :)
<DocScrutinizer05> when you try to map JRTZV to any TZ usually used on SOL3, you will notice the interesting effect of backwarp, JRTZV magically warps up to match the local TZ with the first 24h and never reaches the hours around 30-40. However since it usually is 40h, it fails on the 24h target and has a scew of 2..5 h / 24h period
<DocScrutinizer05> I bet the guys from SCP are already monitoring JRTZV for its effects on human life and reality on earth
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<DocScrutinizer05> http://www.scp-wiki.net/
<whitequark> yeah
* DocScrutinizer05 just has developed the theory that JRTZV is mainly powered by caffeine
* DocScrutinizer05 heads out to prepare another coffee
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<whitequark> hahaha
<whitequark> mayor of toronto: "yeah, I smoked crack, probably in one of my drunken stupors"
<whitequark> a honest politician at last?
<wpwrak> ;-))
<whitequark> congrats
<whitequark> hope that'll give you much more people
<DocScrutinizer05> just an additional 33% were already nice
<DocScrutinizer05> making for our needed 200 "customers" "promising" to buy a device
<larsc> "The German plot"
<larsc> that sounds dangerous
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<DocScrutinizer05> haha
<DocScrutinizer05> "journalism's kinda scary and of it we should be wary..."
<DocScrutinizer05> "wonder what became of Mary?"
<DocScrutinizer05> Information is not knowledge
<DocScrutinizer05> Knowledge is not wisdom
<DocScrutinizer05> Wisdom is not truth
<DocScrutinizer05> Truth is not beauty
<DocScrutinizer05> Beauty is not love
<DocScrutinizer05> Love is not music
<DocScrutinizer05> Music is THE BEST . . .
<DocScrutinizer05> Wisdom is the domain of the Wis (which is extinct)
<DocScrutinizer05> Beauty is a French phonetic corruption
<DocScrutinizer05> Of a short cloth neck ornament
<DocScrutinizer05> Currently in resurgence . . .
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<wpwrak> 'We can promise more than the others, because we will in no way keep these promises,' ... what's satiric about that ?
<larsc> wpwrak: they are honest
<wpwrak> (german plot) it means great ambitions and resourceful protagonists :)
<wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: EUR 500-700 just the PCBA or complete Neo900 ?
<DocScrutinizer05> PCBA
<DocScrutinizer05> We won't reach <700 for complete device
<DocScrutinizer05> unless we sell 1000+
<wpwrak> ah, that ought to be easy :)
<DocScrutinizer05> a refurbished comlete N900 is ~110$
<DocScrutinizer05> and we need to disassemble >=200 of them, and desolder unobtanium parts like SMIA95 sockets for camera etc
<DocScrutinizer05> whcu makes for another 50EUR per device, for working hours
<DocScrutinizer05> which*
<DocScrutinizer05> so complete device is about PCBA-€ + 150€
<DocScrutinizer05> maybe even +200€
<DocScrutinizer05> or we find crap like the SMIA95-16p and other special parts, and also we can source *cheap display half and complete housing incl antennae etc
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<wpwrak> you have to at least double any input costs. so the parts from that complete N900 will cost in the end some EUR 300
<wpwrak> but if you can avoid desoldering, that's much nice :)
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<DocScrutinizer05> yeah, it's all a nightmare
<DocScrutinizer05> as expected
<DocScrutinizer05> for some more bright entertainment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ta7Mh9a_y8
<DocScrutinizer05> seems some watchers doubt it's real ;-)
<wpwrak> ;-))
<apelete> mth larsc: fixed the kernel crash when the device is powered down and the musb driver is being released -> http://paste.debian.net/66488/
<larsc> good :)
<larsc> what was it?
<apelete> larsc: musb gadget code was using host negotiation unconditionnally: I fixed it so that hnp is not used it the musb kernel module is compiled as gadget only
<apelete> s/it/if/
<larsc> ok
<qi-bot> apelete meant: "larsc: musb gadget code was using host negotiation uncondifionnally: I fixed if so that hnp is not used if the musb kernel module is compiled as gadget only"
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<apelete> larsc: something is still amiss when nanonote is connect to a usb host laptop -> http://paste.debian.net/66496/
<larsc> looks like a NULL pointer deref
<apelete> kernel is not crashing upon being connected, but device is not detected as an ethernet device and the kernel crashes when it is powered down
<apelete> larsc: yeah looks like it, guess I have to wield gdb on this one
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<wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: (wired) you don't need to state in every post that you're a professional :-)
<DocScrutinizer05> hehe
<DocScrutinizer05> yeah, I already noticed that it's probably a bit over the top
<DocScrutinizer05> maybe I shouldn't answer each pst anyway
<DocScrutinizer05> post
<DocScrutinizer05> It's just I feel allergig when noobs and wannabes try to educate me about how stuff works
<DocScrutinizer05> allergic*
<wpwrak> i wonder if it would make sense to add taps to the SIM card. e.g., to monitor what it's doing and maybe even to have the option to cut communication.
<wpwrak> maybe something to discuss with those SIM card hackers.
<DocScrutinizer05> particularly when they point to other similarly noobish and made up "documents" and claim that was the source of absolute truth and we better read THAT to finally get a clue how stuff works
<DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: believe it or not, it's already on my todo list
<wpwrak> kewl ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05> btw since 2009 iirc
<wpwrak> hmm, now i have to ask what is on the list: adding the taps or talking to the SIM card hackers ? :)
<DocScrutinizer05> 12-Nov-2009 19:48
<DocScrutinizer05> adding taps
<wpwrak> excellent :)
<DocScrutinizer05> http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/unsorted/gta04.pdf > >later module firmware update can enable multi­SIM operation .SIM control and data lines should be Y­routed to CPU GPIO for debug purposes. [see 9. Dual­SIM]<<
<DocScrutinizer05> >>selected by CPU, and vice versa).
<DocScrutinizer05> SIM­datalines to multiplexer of GSM­module should also be monitored and controllable by
<DocScrutinizer05> CPU GPIO, for purposes like e.g. SIM­protocol analysis and Remote SIM­Access­Profile
<DocScrutinizer05> via BlueTooth handled by CPU.<<
<DocScrutinizer05> the GTA04 OM skunkworks project, you know?
<wpwrak> heh :)
<wpwrak> now let's see if any other press comes knocking at your door
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<apelete> larsc: thought the crash was due to the rndis driver being built into kernel but it wasn't
<apelete> doesn't like that "g_ether gadget: notify connect false" though, seems suspicious to me -> http://paste.debian.net/66507/
<apelete> getting late to start gdb debugging, will look into that tomorrow
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<DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: (any other press) I already sent a notice to c't redaction 2 weeks ago and they conveniently ignored it
<wpwrak> bah, loosers. well, maybe they read "wired" :)
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