Topic for #qi-hardware is now Copyleft hardware - http://qi-hardware.com | hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben / atusb 802.15.4 wireless, and other community driven hw projects | public logging at http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs
_whitelogger joined #qi-hardware
Topic for #qi-hardware is now Copyleft hardware - http://qi-hardware.com | hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben / atusb 802.15.4 wireless, and other community driven hw projects | public logging at http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs
aw joined #qi-hardware
aw_ joined #qi-hardware
erikkugel joined #qi-hardware
emeb joined #qi-hardware
Openfree` joined #qi-hardware
tonghuix joined #qi-hardware
skynet-2000 joined #qi-hardware
<wolfspraul>
good morning
<kristianpaul>
morning
<wolfspraul>
I saw your planet post, but I didn't fully understand it :-)
<kristianpaul>
:-|
<kristianpaul>
Well, i was trying to give a technical update
<wolfspraul>
well don't worry, I liked it
<wolfspraul>
yeah but what was the main point?
<kristianpaul>
namuru integration on M1
<kristianpaul>
MM*
<wolfspraul>
maybe the post was a little dry, I didn't see screenshots or any sort of results/text snippets from the machine room
<wolfspraul>
so I didn't get it
<wolfspraul>
but it's great that you are alive, that comes across well :-)
<kristianpaul>
yeah i tought on that (screenshots)
<wolfspraul>
I think people read this kind of thing reverse
<wolfspraul>
limited time
<wolfspraul>
so they look for the results first
<kristianpaul>
yes i know
<wolfspraul>
if the results are interesting, they will read about how things got there
<wolfspraul>
but your post has no results, as far as I could see
<wolfspraul>
maybe deeper inside somewhere, but 99% of readers will never go search
<kristianpaul>
yes
<wolfspraul>
anyway, all fine. I was happy to see the post!
<kristianpaul>
sure, i just wanted to drop a technical update nothing full of results indeed :)
<kristianpaul>
next post will have some plots for sure :)
skynet-2000 joined #qi-hardware
wej joined #qi-hardware
<rejon>
arg, still having some problem getting my milkymist onto the net
<rejon>
from F16
<wolfspraul>
Sebastien just committed some improvements in how DHCP works
xiangfu joined #qi-hardware
<rejon>
i meant nanonote
<kristianpaul>
i guess the network-managet annoys a bit because the new usb0 devices
<rejon>
not sure...i reached my limit with trying
Guest45677 joined #qi-hardware
aw_ joined #qi-hardware
skynet-2000 joined #qi-hardware
freakazoid0223 joined #qi-hardware
rejon joined #qi-hardware
zear joined #qi-hardware
aw_ joined #qi-hardware
aw joined #qi-hardware
AwAyla joined #qi-hardware
DocScrutinizer joined #qi-hardware
panda|x201 joined #qi-hardware
xiangfu joined #qi-hardware
rejon joined #qi-hardware
stefan_schmidt joined #qi-hardware
jekhor joined #qi-hardware
Guest74167 joined #qi-hardware
aw_ joined #qi-hardware
AwAyla joined #qi-hardware
jivs joined #qi-hardware
rejon joined #qi-hardware
jekhor joined #qi-hardware
jekhor_ joined #qi-hardware
kristianpaul joined #qi-hardware
jivs joined #qi-hardware
wejp joined #qi-hardware
aw_ joined #qi-hardware
aw joined #qi-hardware
rzk joined #qi-hardware
woakas joined #qi-hardware
jivs joined #qi-hardware
rejon joined #qi-hardware
rejon joined #qi-hardware
urandom__ joined #qi-hardware
whitequark joined #qi-hardware
wolfspraul joined #qi-hardware
kristoffer joined #qi-hardware
<DocSalarySlave>
*sigh*
<kristianpaul>
First week of work? :-)
<wolfspraul>
hah
<wolfspraul>
how is it going?
antgreen joined #qi-hardware
aisa joined #qi-hardware
kuribas joined #qi-hardware
emeb joined #qi-hardware
skynet-2000 joined #qi-hardware
<wpwrak>
DocSalarySlave: harsh treatment ? :)
<DocSalarySlave>
Thursday 1. day
<kristianpaul>
*g*
<kristianpaul>
worst :)
<wpwrak>
ah, so you're not a slave yet
<DocSalarySlave>
I am, on holiday
<wpwrak>
still enjoying freedom. facing the certainty of its end. greek tragedy couldn't set it up better.
<DocSalarySlave>
anyway FWIW, farnell doesn'T seel to individuals, but a nice CR-lady called me and told me www.hbe-shop.de will do, and has all the farnell stuff
<blogic>
DocSalarySlave: nice link
<rejon>
wpwrak, is the code for ubb-vga in latest nanonote image?
<wpwrak>
hm, dunno. probably not
<wpwrak>
i think the number of people who have one of these boards is very very very low :)
<rejon>
man, if i can't get my m1 working to present images, I'm going to figure out something
<wpwrak>
all i know is that it's not zero. but i don't know if it's > 1 :)
<rejon>
I don't do slides anymore, so need novel way to use my m1 to present
<wolfspraul>
that's what you use for your command line tools? should I check?
<wolfspraul>
I doubt you actually do that
<rejon>
goal: make a simple dev. environment to get the most developers to create apps
<rejon>
might even add simple apps
<wolfspraul>
if you really face the actual decision, you will either use plain text nowadays, or if it does need some formatting/linking you will use simple hand-written html
<wpwrak>
most of the time i use plain text and let someone else worry about formatting
<wolfspraul>
I would not write a new manual page in man or info anymore - why. makes no sense. html is simple and far more future proof.
<wpwrak>
i used nroff (man) a few times
<wpwrak>
and yes, i do have a sizeable manual in latex, complete with a script that converts it into ascii :)
<wpwrak>
(lilo)
<kristianpaul>
so far the only app i noticed was developed for jsut nanonote was nanoterm (C?) and nanomap (Qt)
<wolfspraul>
yes that was 20 years ago
<wpwrak>
i also did latex to rfc (internet standards), etc.
<wpwrak>
the formats haven't changed much
<wpwrak>
and there is latex2html
<wpwrak>
rejon: i think you're trying too much to follow the buzz. those developers who hunger for fashionable tools will develop for iphone or android. they don't exist in our universe.
<rejon>
wpwrak, its just a wiki page :)
<rejon>
i have to clear out my ideas
<rejon>
get feedback
<wpwrak>
rejon: and if they wander here, they will be strangers. and hopefully act accordingly. (if not, i.e., if they come here with the expectations that everyone will bow to them, good riddance)
<rejon>
that is the most that has been done on this *project* to date
<wpwrak>
rejon: we're still short a good SDK for traditional languages, though
<wpwrak>
even developing in C is still messy. well, with openwrt. it's better with jlime.
<blogic>
wpwrak: how is coding with in owrt messy ?
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: some man pages nowadays are just pre-formatted text. no longer nroff. and the text comes from tool --help or similar
<blogic>
do you know the git-src thing ?
<rejon>
wolfspraul, where should we file issues against the qi and sharism website?
<rejon>
is there a project for that?
<rejon>
should get some rigor to these projects with a real plan and roadmap
<wpwrak>
blogic: the makefile changes are more invasive. for jlime, all you usually need to do is change CC
<blogic>
ok
<wolfspraul>
rejon: sorry still no RT
<rejon>
wolfspraul, the projects issue tracker is good enough
<rejon>
imo
<rejon>
just use that
<wolfspraul>
use it
<wolfspraul>
even if we finally have rt, we can migrate issues
<rejon>
wolfspraul, i'm happy we met with those people about a router
<rejon>
that helped me close out one of my ideas
<wolfspraul>
sure its' always good to meet people
<rejon>
selling a router on principle of fixing internet is PROFITEERING
<wpwrak>
blogic: also, i'm not sure if openwrt already has installation of packages into the cross-environment. opkg-host. someone may have said it had this now, but i never verified.
<rejon>
done. closed.
<wolfspraul>
let's meet with them again in 1 year and see where things stand
<blogic>
wpwrak: you mean into staging ?
<wpwrak>
blogic: well, such that new libraries get picked up. don;t remember the name.
<wpwrak>
blogic: i usually chicken out with openwrt when it gets beyond libc :)
<wpwrak>
up to and including libc, also openwrt only needs CC to be changed
<wpwrak>
beyond that, things get messy
<wpwrak>
i like the simplicity of the concept: "if you want to cross-compile, just specify the name of the new compiler" (or the toolchain, e.g., CROSS=... etc.)
<blogic>
ok
<blogic>
you will hit limits with several packages that way
<wpwrak>
that's easy to convey. it's intuitively clear that *something* needs to change to make a cross-compilation. and CC is pretty obvious. (almost) all the rest are search paths inside CC and friends
<blogic>
but ok... personaly preference i guess
<blogic>
i will look at jlime anyhow
<wpwrak>
yes, i know. e.g., pkg-config spoils that dream :)
<blogic>
maybe we can scavange some cool featires
<blogic>
hehe
<wpwrak>
the main problem of openwrt there is that toolchain and libraries (on the host) live in different hierarchies. if there were in the same hierarchy, things would work as smoothly as in jlime/OE
<blogic>
ok
<blogic>
i see what you mean
<blogic>
i think several owrt folks would argue that the seperation is one of the cool features :D
<wpwrak>
even things like pkg-config surprisingly often don't care. you may get the wrong hints from there, but it will still work (admittedly by luck and not by design)
<wpwrak>
yes, i know the arguments from the openwrt side :) but from a user's perspective, i think the preference is quite clear :)
<wpwrak>
well, user = developer here
<blogic>
of course
<wpwrak>
it's the difference between a distribution-specific makefile and a universal makefile (with the allowance for changing CC or having CROSS)
<mth>
personally I prefer to specify target system (what GNU calls "host"...) and derive the compiler and pkg-config etc commands from that
<wpwrak>
mth: you mean via autotools ?
<wpwrak>
(card-carrying member of the autotools hater's guild here, fwiw)
<wpwrak>
(not as extreme as sebastien, though, who never leaves home without a backpack full of pointy sticks with a silver tip, though)
<mth>
I mean in general
<mth>
I'm not a fan of autotools either
<mth>
imo CC is for overriding the default compiler
<mth>
whether you do native or cross builds
<mth>
a default cross compiler would be something like "mipsel-linux-cc", but if you want a different one or don't have the cross compiler in your $PATH you could use $CC to override it
<mth>
it makes sense to have more than one compiler per target, for example GCC and clang could co-exist
Freemor joined #qi-hardware
<qi-bot>
Striegel Darley: @qihardware http://t.co/WBuYYMet ( 141203188090023936@striegelqrdwab0 - 3s ago via web )