Topic for #qi-hardware is now Copyleft hardware - http://qi-hardware.com | hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben / atusb 802.15.4 wireless, and other community driven hw projects | public logging at http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs
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<qi-bot>
xiangfu: RT @qihardware : #Milkymist One bugfixes available. If your M1 freezes, upgrade! (Just connect it to the internet and press the left button ( 139165075201196032@xiangfu - 47s ago via Ping.fm )
<wolfspraul>
kyak: twitter parentheses still there
<wolfspraul>
no, the first thing I see is this: < kyak> !tweet a humble test 3
<wolfspraul>
and that's enough, I can assume that it went through
<kyak>
you can't be sure i actually received your last message, can you?
<kyak>
no say something and imaging i just disconnected my cable; or you were disconnected
<kyak>
do you like it? :)
<wolfspraul>
ok if you like that second confirmation, so be it
<wolfspraul>
I think the tweet command itself is enough
<kyak>
this is the first confirmation, why the second??
<wolfspraul>
that is a confirmation as well, or if there really is a network failure one can track down and double-check in twitter itself
<wolfspraul>
but you know this stuff better, maybe you are right and many others would feel like you
<wolfspraul>
leave it so that you think it's good
<kyak>
ok.. let's see how mentions work
<xiangfu>
is the kernel.org build kernel for nanonote(jz4740) ?
<xiangfu>
how can we make that happen.
<kyak>
i think it has the nanonote_config
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<xiangfu>
!tweet using nanonote by cenobyte: "I left listener on for about 15 minutes and conversed with my brother and it picked up everything. Thanks for the 'aplay' tip and what an interesting program to hack with!"
<qi-bot>
Tweet created: http://twitter.com/qihardware [truncated] (...ed up everything. Th>|<anks for the 'aplay' ...)
<dvdk>
xiangfu: about debiang bug 613610: I have a loongson MIPS server running 24/7 here, installed with debian squeeze. if you need login access, just mail me your public ssh key.
<xiangfu>
dvdk, great.
<dvdk>
it's on dyndns, ip-address changing once per day, but as long as you login w/ 'screen' that shouldn't be a problem
<xiangfu>
dvdk, let's see how debian under nanonote works. :) if not works well , I will try to do that in your MIPS server. :)
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<kyak>
dvdk: cool, where did you get the machine?
<dvdk>
kyak: it's a fuloong 6004 bought from hackable devices
<dvdk>
not bad. does it sit on the public internet?
<kyak>
though much more powerful
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<kyak>
yes, it's on the internet; but not so public
<dvdk>
:)
<kyak>
i'm talking now from this server
<kyak>
it mostly serves my screen session :)
<dvdk>
BTW, my emacs, running the irc-chat, is also running on my fuloong box (ssh -X)
<kyak>
what are other distros supporting mips besides debian? i think it's arch, gentoo..?
<dvdk>
nixos?
<dvdk>
openwrt?
<dvdk>
but debian is all one needs, no?
<dvdk>
:)
<kyak>
i was talking about fully-fledged distros, of course :)
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<kyak>
i've migrated to arch linux on my desktop
<kyak>
from mandriva/mageia
<kyak>
due to their rolling releases
<dvdk>
my desktop is ubuntu, but latest release is pretty broken. thinking about migrating back to debian (testing is also quasi rolling release)
<kyak>
i have a dream of never reinstalling OS on my PC again :)
<dvdk>
:)
<kyak>
arch has also got testing, but i'm not so brave as to try it
<kyak>
it's bleeding edge enough
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: by the way, for the quarterly news, if it risks getting just too large, maybe make several volumes and post them 2-3 days apart ?
<wolfspraul>
yes
<wolfspraul>
arch seems nice, how about Fedora? I'm thinking about trying Fedora again (was a RedHat user back when it was 6.x)
<wpwrak>
(tweet creation) in fact, if it truncates, it should probably not create the tweet, but rather wait for a new command that already includes the trimming
<wolfspraul>
yes I agree. in fact that's a real use-case for feedback, an error message.
<wolfspraul>
it should not auto-truncate, it should reject saying how long the maximum is
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<kyak>
let me see if there is such a setting
<kyak>
btw, you can explicitely split the message by inserting \n (literally)
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: not only say how long but show where. else, you get ten attempts trying to figure out where exactly this limit ends up :)
<wpwrak>
wysiwyg is good in this case :)
<kyak>
there is a "splitlong" script for irssi :)
<kyak>
it can split input messages in strings of arbitrary length and combine them with defined symbols
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<wpwrak>
kyak: you mean specifically for the irc-twitter-relay ?
<kyak>
no, it does it globally :)
<kyak>
ok, so i can send the "String is too long to post"
<kyak>
is it sufficient?
<kyak>
i can show where the limit ends up
<wpwrak>
canit indicate where it would have to be cut ? like the >|< ?
<kyak>
but it means posting the string to the channel again :)
<wpwrak>
just make it a single message. or send it directly to the originator :)
<wpwrak>
but better keep the response in the channel. that way, others can understand when someone keeps on re-posting a message
<kristianpaul>
xiangfu: afaik i have mipsel machine... but still interested i get xburst tools to run on it, what and how i should compile?
<kristianpaul>
ah yes fuloong is cool too :-)
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul, apply this patch to xburst-tools. and compile as usual.
<xiangfu>
kristianpaul, or just apt-get -b source xburst-tools
<wolfspraul>
I think no problem in showing the text a second time - this is an error case
<kyak>
!tweet This is a really long tweet, which i probably typed because IRC is so much better than twitter becase 512 bytes > 140 bytes or whatever is the maximum message length for twitter; but this is not going to be sent to twitter, because if it is, this is going to be embarrassing
<qi-bot>
The tweet is too long! Split it somewhere after "...r becase 512 bytes > 140 bytes or whatev..."
<kyak>
how does it look?
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<xiangfu>
kyak, great.
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<jason_>
hey guys
<xiangfu>
debuild needs real15m12.473s under nanonote.
<wpwrak>
kyak: so where exactly would you split ? :) after "whatev" ?
<wolfspraul>
xiangfu: I keep thinking what we can do with the 1.5 gb data partition on the Ben
<xiangfu>
most people here don't want that.
<wolfspraul>
on one side the 512 mb is pretty full and there are probably other neat things we could bundle
<wolfspraul>
don't want what?
<wolfspraul>
last time we changed the partition from 256mb to 512mb it took us a year or so until we had the last cases of people running into problems :-)
<wolfspraul>
our boot time got significantly faster, maybe good to have the remaining 1.5gb on/mounted by default
<xiangfu>
just ignore my message. (mis understand)
<jason_>
wolfspraul, ive been spending my days at what you would call a sweatshop, except its november
<wolfspraul>
and even if we plan to do some backup or encrypted or usb-mass-storage stuff, maybe all of this will be handled best with a loop-mounted file on the underlying ubifs?
<wolfspraul>
so a lot of things to consider
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<wolfspraul>
but somehow I feel we should address this otherwise by default we only use 25% of the local storage capacity on the Ben
<wolfspraul>
but what's the best way - not sure
<wolfspraul>
how long does ubifs mounting of the remaining 1.5gb take now?
<xiangfu>
wolfspraul, openwrt will do that background. will not change boot time.
<xiangfu>
wolfspraul, let me check the mounting time now.
<wolfspraul>
what we need to consider is better support for full backups, for encryption, for updating from and on the device (as opposed to reflashing)
<wolfspraul>
I want some way to very easily backup my entire Ben, and restore when needed
<wolfspraul>
also I want an easy way to encrypt it, whatever the details are exactly needs to be determined, but that whole thing should be encrypted... :-)
<wolfspraul>
finally we should update from the device
<wolfspraul>
I need to think about it more I guess. somehow those 1.5gb bug me :-)
<xiangfu>
time mtd.nn mount data /data : real 0m 1.80s
<wolfspraul>
wow
<wolfspraul>
well
<wolfspraul>
I don't know exactly what I want or what we should do, it just keeps bugging me
<wolfspraul>
the rough goals I think are: easy backup, easy encryption, easy update (from the device), easy access to full 2gb
<wolfspraul>
maybe we can go there step by step
<wolfspraul>
yes, I think we should not break usability for our existing users first. not another experience like the 256->512 switch.
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<jason_>
wolfspraul, would you like to see the copy left obamagotchi?
<kyak>
wpwrak: you can refine the message, if you wish
<kyak>
wpwrak: but they say, "Enough is as good as a feast" :)
<wpwrak>
kyak: what i mean is that it's not obvious where the boundary is. e.g., does the ...text... mean that the boundary is somewhere inside the "text" ? i.e., i first thought it was the ">" until i realized it was part of the original message
<wpwrak>
kyak: it's not uncommon for systems that indicate a position in a text to show text before and after that text. so if you use ...text..., it can easily be interpreted as ...beforeafter...
<wpwrak>
kyak: in fact, i'm not entirely sure yet what is the intended interpretation ;-)
<wpwrak>
kyak: also, what does "somewhere after" mean ? how many characters after this do i have ? i would think the limit is "somewhere before" (<) or "not after this" (<=)
<kyak>
duh, just make your suggestion!
<wpwrak>
maybe "this would be the limit: ...text|" ?
<kyak>
sure, why not
<kyak>
!tweet This is a really long tweet, which i probably typed because IRC is so much better than twitter becase 512 bytes > 140 bytes or whatever is the maximum message length for twitter; but this is not going to be sent to twitter, because if it is, this is going to be embarrassing
<qi-bot>
The tweet is too long! This would be the limit: ...r becase 512 bytes > 140 bytes or whatev|
<kyak>
wpwrak: is it good? :)
<wpwrak>
excellent, thanks !
<kyak>
i'm glad everybody is satisfied (i hope) :)
<wolfspraul>
:-)
<wolfspraul>
kyak: THANK YOU for helping the twitter challenged...
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<kyak>
wolfspraul: i have a feeling this is not the end :) but it's ok till we get it polished
<wolfspraul>
kyak: do you have any thoughts on the Ben software features I mentioned earlier: backup, encryption, update
<wolfspraul>
which one is most important to you? (if any)
<wolfspraul>
and how do you solve it right now?
<wolfspraul>
they all seem to be intertwined to me
<wolfspraul>
I want my Ben to be fully backed up, fully encrypted, and always up-to-date :-) but how?
<wolfspraul>
any thoughts would be very appreciated (no rush, getting this right will require some time)
<wolfspraul>
also I want to do this in the most natural way possible, no big Ben-specific system that will just become a maintenance headache
<wolfspraul>
maybe I start looking for some backup/encryption tools first, the only thing I know is rsync...
<kyak>
i don't store anything important on Ben, so making a backup is not so important.. Though it should be very hard to set up with rsync
<kyak>
*shouldn't
<wolfspraul>
he yes, me neither [store anything important]
<wolfspraul>
if I have anything only on the Ben, I copy it to my notebook at the end of the day
<kyak>
and so i don't need encryption, too :)
<wolfspraul>
that's as much as I trust my Ben :-)
<kyak>
:)
<wolfspraul>
but I think we can do much better, we just need a strong and easily usable backup and encryption solution
<wolfspraul>
now that the fundamentals are mostly in place and slowly continue to improve, I think about that more and more
<kyak>
yea, probably all the necessary tools are there
<kyak>
just need to setup some scripts/hooks
<kyak>
i believe those or also available somewhere
<wolfspraul>
I will dig around for existing backup/encryption tools, maybe there is some good stuff
<wolfspraul>
kyak: two questions if you don't mind. how do you update your Ben? and do you use the 1.5gb partition?
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<antoniodariush>
hi guys
<antoniodariush>
wpwrak, i see now the software to run atben are inside the toolchain
<antoniodariush>
and the compilation went fine!
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<ps2chiper>
im back
<antoniodariush>
wpwrak, so do we still need zigbee?
<wpwrak>
antoniodariush: i haven't tried the latest release yet, but for the basics, it may be fine. the code has been untouch^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hstable for a good while
<wpwrak>
meanwhile, some improvements have been posted to linux-zigbee. so it may make sense to update from there.
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<antoniodariush>
wpwrak, so basically it's the same procedure we used to do but without the hassle of build the kernel and cross compile the library and software?
<antoniodariush>
my previous nickname was `antonio`, i'm the one who made the video with lots of nanonote connected with atbens :)
<wpwrak>
(same procedure) yes, that's what i think xiangfu has done. not sure if anyone has tested it yet, though. maybe he did and it worked so perfectly that he didn't even mention it :)
<wpwrak>
yeah, the wireless mystery network :)
<wolfspraul>
antoniodariush: which video?
<wolfspraul>
is it freely licensed and do you have a download link?
<antoniodariush>
wpwrak, ok, at least the kernel and some software are already in the toolchain
<wolfspraul>
I only get a "flash required" warning for the video though
<wolfspraul>
even though I have flash installed
<wolfspraul>
do you have a url to the video file?
<antoniodariush>
should be on the server let me check
<wolfspraul>
I only get that error but nothing to click on, so I cannot find the video file right now
<kyak>
wolfspraul: i update my Ben via reflash_ben.sh. It doesn't affect my data partition. Then i have this script that sets up Ben for me (like: hostname, date, timezone, mount data partition). Every time i change anything in Ben that is going to be overwritten by upgrade, i change the script. It's not too hard, and saves a lot of time after reflash
<wolfspraul>
antoniodariush: ah ok it points to vimeo.com, which I currently cannot access
<wolfspraul>
if you have a download link for a .mp4 or so that would be great, otherwise I check vimeo tomorrow
<wolfspraul>
kyak: he, ok. roughly like I do, only more automated.
<antoniodariush>
wolfspraul, i'm checking on the server just a sec