<wpwrak> wolfspraul: (customs) they've basically closed all commercial imports if they're not matched by exports by the same importer/exporter. i don't know to what extent this also affects private imports. even if there are no bureaucratic obstacles there, i would expect their volume to have increased, slowing things down.
<wolfspraul> are you reading too much news/laws/regulations again?
<wolfspraul> (hope you don't mind I ask this first :-))
<wpwrak> well, i read about shops closing, having to search 4-5 shops to find a simple MIDI cable (all of them the kind that normally would have it), etc.
<wolfspraul> hmm
<wolfspraul> let's just try
<wpwrak> i read about customs delays for cars or car parts of 1+ years. tires don't seem to enter the country at all.
<wolfspraul> I can imagine it's messy
<wolfspraul> toll booth is the oldest idea how to make money, no?
<wpwrak> companies that are importers buying local products they can export, so they can maintain that import/export balance, etc.
<wolfspraul> but let's just also ignore it, how about that?
<wpwrak> it's not just money
<wolfspraul> I'm partially Chinese now. there is always a backdoor.
<wpwrak> it's some terribly misguided plan to strengthen local industrial production
<wolfspraul> understand
<wolfspraul> btw, this may go a little unnoticed here, but I'm super happy to see a healthy stream of cleanups and activities to upstream more jz4740 stuff into kernel.org
<wolfspraul> the only question now is how we can carry all this goodness forward into new products
<wpwrak> 1) make lots of money. 2) start ya ;-)
<wolfspraul> sure, but I mean very practically - this is all 4740 stuff
<wolfspraul> I need to talk to Liu Qiang (Ingenic CEO again)
<wolfspraul> can't be worse than talking to Sebastien :-) (***SEBASTIEN: THIS IS A JOKE***)
<wolfspraul> I need to ask about 4760/4770, see whether we can get meaningful sponsorship (a couple hundred thousand USD), demo Milkymist (he's an old-school chip designer)
<wpwrak> i guess 4740 and 4760 have a lot in common. at least the few bits i looked at did. so some drivers are probably shared
<wolfspraul> just fired a meeting request mail to Liu Qiang
<wolfspraul> let's see whether he's in town and still up for it...
<wolfspraul> I will just ask for a half million USD to develop the NanoNote successor :-)
<wpwrak> just R&D or also initial production ?
<wolfspraul> nah, I didn't calculate seriously
<wolfspraul> production hopefully, right?
<wolfspraul> I highly doubt he will come around and really do something, but I need to keep the door open and make reasonable proposals.
<wpwrak> ah :) my R&D estimates are in the 200-300 kUSD range. but then you'd need some money to see production as well.
<wpwrak> s/see/seed/
<wolfspraul> I will tell him the main guy who helped with Ingenic's support in kernel.org now works full-time for Analog Devices, ha ha
<wolfspraul> the Chinese are sensitive to this kind of 'loss'
<wpwrak> ;-))
<wolfspraul> not that he will then move, I think. they take the pain...
<wolfspraul> first I need to see whether he's still in charge and up for a meeting, so one by one
<wolfspraul> I just noticed last meeting was in March, how fast time is running
<wolfspraul> I delayed it several times because I wanted to demo m1
<wolfspraul> now I can
<wpwrak> will you demo it with some interaction ?
<wolfspraul> not your level, I'm a little behind
<wolfspraul> just camera, simple mode
<wolfspraul> show the gui
<wpwrak> maybe you should try to catch up :)
<wolfspraul> this demo is just to show him our seriousness and ability in making products
<wolfspraul> #1 Ben NanoNote
<wolfspraul> #2 Milkymist One
<wolfspraul> it's not to downplay Ingenic chips
<wpwrak> it's not that hard. you don't have to wait for usb-midi. you can do that via a laptop and a USB-MIDI cable. they're ~USD 15 in argentina. so that's probably a microcent in china :)
<wolfspraul> so I needed the box and accessories etc.
<wolfspraul> if I ask for money for a nanonote successor, it's because we make a product
<wolfspraul> not a random board
<wolfspraul> I highly doubt he will move, as I said I just go there for intel, chit-chat, and to keep reasonable proposals on the table
<wolfspraul> to be taken out on a rainy day :-)
<wolfspraul> and first I need the meeting
<wpwrak> he may already be impressed by you still being alive :)
<wolfspraul> nah
<wolfspraul> in China, even a failed business never really dies
<wolfspraul> never really :-)
<wolfspraul> it's because of face loss etc.
<wpwrak> ;-))
<wolfspraul> it just hangs around in deeper and deeper zombie states
<wolfspraul> Om anyone?
<wolfspraul> :-)
<wpwrak> i should have anticipated that :)
<wolfspraul> they cannot admit to failure, culturally
<wolfspraul> just not that word
<wolfspraul> of course everybody still knows
<wolfspraul> if I don't arrive in a big mercedes, my business failed
<wolfspraul> that simple
<wolfspraul> seriously
<wolfspraul> that's the sign
<wolfspraul> I chatted with a textile entrepreneur once
<wolfspraul> first time I sat in a S600 mercedes
<wolfspraul> reasonable guy, my age
<wolfspraul> I asked: WHY DO YOU DO THAT?
<wolfspraul> why spend 200,000 USD on this piece of metal
<wolfspraul> he acknowledges it's a lot of money, waste, etc.
<wolfspraul> but...
<wolfspraul> all the other business people do that too
<wolfspraul> it's their code language
<wolfspraul> he cannot afford to arrive in an Audi A6
<wolfspraul> :-)
<wpwrak> so you'll rent one for the meeting ?
<wolfspraul> strange stuff, different cultures
<wolfspraul> oh I can totally imagine this happening, yes
<wolfspraul> no not me
<wolfspraul> definitely not
<wpwrak> ;-)
<wpwrak> pity you're so far away. i could lend you my BMW. that one's lot quite so expensive but looks nice, too :)
<wpwrak> s/lot/not/
<wolfspraul> last China joke for today: BMW = be my wife
<wpwrak> ?
<wolfspraul> you don't get it?
<wolfspraul> come on
<wolfspraul> you buy a BMW
<wolfspraul> why?
<wolfspraul> to send out a message!
<wolfspraul> to all the pretty girls
<wpwrak> you use it to go hunting ?
<wolfspraul> nah
<wolfspraul> it's a joke/saying here
<wolfspraul> interesting perception
<wolfspraul> makes perfect sense to me (maybe I do need to get out of here soon :-))
<wolfspraul> it sends a message that you are rich and strong and attractive
<wolfspraul> not to me
<wolfspraul> to me it sends the message that the driver/owner is stupid
<wpwrak> okay, so "come to my bed". not necessarily with marriage plans :)
<wolfspraul> how different perceptions can be
<wpwrak> hey !
<wolfspraul> seriously
<wolfspraul> it does
<wolfspraul> someone who buys a 200,000 USD car???
<wolfspraul> stupid
<wolfspraul> in a few years it's rusty
<wolfspraul> I see totally dusted and rusting fancy Mercedes coupes and what not standing around here
<wolfspraul> top-model of course. s600, amg s65, etc.
<wolfspraul> maybe the owner got cold feet (depending on where the money came from)
<wolfspraul> maybe lost interest
<wolfspraul> maybe upgraded to lamborghini
<wolfspraul> who knows
<wolfspraul> all stupid, imho
<wolfspraul> but here bmw = be my wife
<wolfspraul> well then
<wolfspraul> go for it
<wolfspraul> it saves jobs in good old Germany, right? :-)
<wpwrak> i strongly disagree with any suggestion of the owner of this car being stupid: http://www.almesberger.net/misc/car.jpg
<wolfspraul> ha ha
<wolfspraul> wait
<wolfspraul> checking
<wpwrak> of course, i didn't pay USD 200'000 for it ;-)
<wpwrak> and it's not rusty either :)
<wpwrak> 328ci, 1996 model. they should be around 20k EUR these days
<wolfspraul> volkswagen has a Lamborghini and Bugatti Veyron in their show-room right a block down from where I am. and the Maybach showroom is also right here.
<wolfspraul> each of those cars could finance the NanoNote successor
<wpwrak> heh :)
<wolfspraul> sometimes the people that buy them don't want to pick up their car right away, but ask to put a sign with their name or their company name into the car :-)
<wolfspraul> "bought by Sharism Ltd"
<wolfspraul> ha ha
<wolfspraul> crazy, eh?
<wolfspraul> "no sorry, can you keep it here another month with this sign?" "I come pick it up later"
<wpwrak> ;-))
<wolfspraul> yep
<wolfspraul> I think the Bugatti Veyron that Volkswagen has here costs 1 million EUR, no?
<wpwrak> well, there are cars that have a decent price/value ratio and others that don't :)
<wolfspraul> 1.2 million
<wolfspraul> in China probably 2 then
<wolfspraul> I should just ask
<wpwrak> maybe complain that it's too cheap. you'd look like a tramp in such a car.
<wpwrak> well, you could say you're looking for one for your butler. for many years of faithful service. make sure other customers overhear :)
<wolfspraul> remember the Chinese guy who smashed his Ferrari to complain about bad service?
<wolfspraul> hilarious
<wolfspraul> I want more of this stuff
<wolfspraul> who else is doing that kind of thing nowadays?
<wpwrak> (bought by signs) perhaps you could also just rent such a sign ?
<wpwrak> (smashed ferrari) naw, i think i haven't heard of that
<wolfspraul> ha ha
<wolfspraul> wait I find the video
<wolfspraul> we wouldn't want that kind of fate for a Ben or M1
<wolfspraul> oh it was a lamborghini
<wpwrak> there are iphone-smashing videos. very viral :)
<wolfspraul> yeah but that tops it
<wolfspraul> not a cheapo iphone
<wolfspraul> that's true customer passion there
<wpwrak> sick
<wolfspraul> "Angry about the service, the owner felt his consumer rights were ignored. So he decided that the best way to gain attention was to destroy his car on the 15th of March, which is also World Consumer Rights Day. Apparently, he hired people to publicly destroy his car with hammers and make his statement. This protest was made to provoke public support and goad the manufacturer to respect his consumer rights."
<wpwrak> i found the comment about the sexual context more intersting :)
<wolfspraul> come on the logic could be yours
<wolfspraul> this guy just doesn't want to give up on a bug he found with his car
<wolfspraul> "The Lamborghini Gallardo was bought six months ago, but the engine failed to start on Nov. 29, 2010. The owner contacted the Lamborghini dealer in Qingdao and they transported the Gallardo to their maintenance center.
<wolfspraul> The engine problem wasn't solved, but instead the bumper and chassis were damaged by the transport. The owner complained by the dealer but they refused to take responsibility in this matter, so the angry owner contacted Lamborghini CEO Stephan Winkelmann, the brand's China headquarters, its after-sales service manager for Asia-Pacific region, and the brand's owner Volkswagen Group, but the problem was not solved."
<wolfspraul> from bug to emotions
<wolfspraul> I'm actually wondering what Volkswagen did in the end
<wolfspraul> this story definitely went viral
<wolfspraul> did they give him a new one?
<wpwrak> well, he could probably have found some independent mechanic ... :)
<wolfspraul> this kind of decision making can easily spread in China
<wolfspraul> then volkswagen suddenly sits on a whole bunch of smashed lamborghinis
<wpwrak> (volkswagen) do as any chinese would do with something unpleasant and ignore it ;-)
<wpwrak> anyway, back to M1. if you want to catch up on controls, all you need are:
<wolfspraul> yeah maybe
<wpwrak> - one of those cheap USB-MIDI controllers (http://www.korg.com/nanoseries2  http://www.akaipro.com/lpd8  etc.)
<wpwrak> - a USB-MIDI adapter (~USD 5)
<wpwrak> - a linux laptop
<wolfspraul> I think I wait a little longer to understand how hard it is to add usb-midi support
<wpwrak> install jack, fire up qjackctl, open the "connect" dialog, plug the controller(s) into the laptop, watch them appear in the list of devices,
<wolfspraul> xiangfu already bougth some of those usb-midi adapters
<wolfspraul> so yes, this is all moving
<wolfspraul> also me and Jon need to have them, and document setup with controllers and so on
<wpwrak> (usb-midi to m1) probably not terribly hard. just needs a lot of context. e.g., it's not only "kernel" drivers but also some of the processing is offloaded to that navre, if i understand things right
<wpwrak> (you and jon) yes
<wpwrak> it's not so good if jon is going around, showing everyone what a cool screensaver the M1 is :)
<wolfspraul> yes well, one by one
<wolfspraul> for a while he had no camera
<wolfspraul> now he has a wireless one even
<wpwrak> his M1 travel case is quite nice. just needs the right feature set :)
<wolfspraul> wpwrak: I apologize for going offline, that was a good discussion
<wolfspraul> so let's see
<wolfspraul> in mechanical controls, we have a lot now, I will draft them into the wiki as a simple list
<wolfspraul> oh, thread was in #milkymist, continuing there...
<wolfspraul> wpwrak: nice, Liu Qiang confirmed right away, meeting next Wednesday
<wpwrak> kewl !
<wolfspraul> yeah well, you know the disclaimers
<wolfspraul> if I had a son that could marry his daughter, things would be different :-)
<wolfspraul> then we would be talking business!!! :-)
<wpwrak> hmm. do i sense a lack of willingness to self-sacrifice ? :)
<wolfspraul> what do you think about controller interfaces?
<kyak> jow_laptop: without this patch, compilation fails on x64 host
<kyak> jow_laptop: it's used really in many projects, just try googling "cache amnesia patch" :) we pulled it from one of the threads when had issues on x64 hos
<kyak> t
<kyak> thank you, humble bot
<ps2chiper> Do you guys know of any tamagotchi style dot matrix screens